362 | Jami Nato | This Must Be The Place

Okay. Have you ever just continually come across one problem after another and you feel like, what is the purpose anyway? Why do I keep on sabotaging myself? Or why do I keep on feeling stuck in this place? It could be something from your past is still there, and maybe we need to, you know, look into that place, and maybe, just maybe, that awareness can help us find our purpose for today. So I'm super excited because I have Jamie NATO. She's our guest today on the show, and she's going to share exactly how that happened for her.

Thank you for having me. What? I was like, thank you for having me. And you're already, like, going, just edit that out.

Jamie, I am so happy to be talking with you today because this is exactly what my passion is. Is, like, what we will continually to. Like the Bible calls it halt and limp through life if we're not fully aware of what's holding us back. But you just, like, dove right in. So tell. Tell us a little bit about you, about your story, how you, like, stumbled into this.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's what any author does is if they have a problem themselves or if they find themselves stuck, they find their way out of it, and. And what they really want to do is go tell other people, in my case, other women, and say, hey, come this way. Like, I'm going to hold a flashlight for you. I'm going to be like, this kind of a Sherpa, like, and say, hey, there is a way out of this. Like, if you feel like you've gotten lost along the way, you got lost in. Maybe it was, like, motherhood, or maybe it was work, or maybe it was just the mundane or what you think you should be. Like, and, you know, women, good grief. The things that we are told we should be, we should not be. It's literally like, pick a group, and you have rules everywhere for how women should be. And I just got so tired and sad of living inside of all these boxes, and I just. I cried out, like, basically I prayed and said, God, like, show me the way. And the way was had to look back. Like, I had to look back to move forward. And those things that I had buried or that I had ascribed meaning to and said, like, that's. That doesn't mean anything, or that was bad, and it doesn't help me at all today. And I think I just woke up and said, actually, I think these have all been breadcrumbs, and every single thing that's happened to me is not a coincidence. And so I'm Going to choose to believe that these things in my past, the things that are happening, happening now, and the things that I dream about, these are calling me to a greater purpose. And if I can live in that place, goodness gracious, would we not set the world on fire?

Right. We would set the world on fire because we have that power and that ability as women to do that. But we let so many old stories keep us. We're living in that story instead of writing a new one. And I think it's so powerful that, you know, God really called you to stop pretending like the past didn't exist. Yeah, stop, stop. And this is what I think is so misleading for a lot of Christians is we're taught, put the vision before you. Like, like, eye on the prize, right?

Yeah.

And we don't understand why we're not seeing the manifestation of God's vision. Promises, like, all of God's promises are, yes, amen. So that's all I'm going to focus on. There is truth to that. But when we're continually bumping up against one wall after another, finding ourselves in repetitive patterns of pain. Yeah, maybe there's something that needs to be resolved. Maybe there's something that we're carrying around in the deepest parts of our subconscious that we're not even aware of. And I call it, like, reveal and heal. Like, if you can like that, you can heal that. God's power can heal that. And then it's like, now your foot comes out the brake and.

Yeah, well, I mean, I think that that way of thinking and inside of Christian spaces is just like for forgive and forget and you just move forward. And I think what that lacks is like, your whole Bible is a story that you read over and over and over again of the past. You read over and over again of people's trials, how they did it wrong and how God showed up for them. You read how they did it right. You. And you read how God showed up for them and. And how he's making sense of this great big story. It's the Bible is breadcrumbs. And so, yes, looking back and making sense of a story, it's so funny. We do that in our Bible. But then when we, when it comes to our lives, we say, nope, just that. Pretend like that never happened. And I'm like, this is not how God made us. He made us to remember. He made us to recall, to see his faithfulness, even in suffering. And then somehow we compartmentalized, like, but not in my life. In my life. It's just straightforward and so you have all these wounded believers who don't have the skills because they've never found a way to look at their past with compassion and, and God's mercy and God's hand all over it. And you know, some of that is just like straight up therapy. Some of it's personal development, some of it's. A lot of it is just being willing to look at your past. Be, just be willing to take a look. And I think people have a fear of doing that because they think, oh, I just don't believe in God's grace or his mercy or his forgiveness if I keep talking about those things that harmed me in the past.

Yeah, that's so true. Okay, so let me ask you. Well, first of all, tell me a little bit about your personal story. How did this happen for you?

Well, you know, I would. A long time ago we did blogs. I don't know if anyone still reads blogs, but I used to be a blogger on a free platform called Blogspot and I was a young.

Blogs are coming back, baby.

They are just like fashion. Just like right now, cargo pants are back, guys, and you're going to get in there and you're going to wear them.

Like, Adam Sandler is so happy right now. He is now a fashion icon.

Seriously. But you know, I would write and it would be like this cathartic thing because I was stuck at home with little babies and toddlers and you have to be at home a lot because it's like nap time after nap time and so you have like a two hour window where you can go out. And so I found this blogging thing where I could write and just kind of tell about our story and, and I love to write. And I realized like, oh, people are reading this besides my mom and my meemaw. You know, things are, things are happening for me. There's like 12 people who are reading this and. But it was just, it was just cathartic for me to tell funny things that were happening in my life and with my kids. And in the middle of that, you know, I am an A plus Christian. I like to tell people that I was in all the Bible studies. I was sitting on the front row. I was, we were in accountability groups. Just all the things you do as a good Christian. And my husband was, he was unfaithful. And it was just shocking because I did all the right things. I, I followed the formula. I was a good Christian wife. I'm staying at home, I'm doing all the things they told me to do and My husband doesn't love me, and I. My world falls apart because if I'm not a good wife, and also maybe probably not a good mom at that time, because my life is falling apart, and I need all this help from people to just help me live, then who am I? And so my world fell apart, and God met me in such a deep way that it changed my whole life. I wanted to be mad at my husband, and I wanted. My husband did not want forgiveness, by the way. He. He got caught, and he felt bad for kind of ruining our lives, but he didn't. He didn't want to come back to me. And so here I have this guy who's unrepentant, doesn't want me or the family really anymore, and what do I do with that? And I felt like there was a verse on my chalkboard which had nothing to do with anything except, you know, when you write something on a chalkboard and then you leave it up for six months? This was that kind of thing. And the verse on the board was, forgive one another as God in Christ forgave you. You know, be kind, tenderhearted towards one another, forgiving each other as God in Christ forgave you. And I stared at that chalkboard in the midst of my pain, and I thought, I don't. I don't want to God. I don't want to forgive him, and I don't have to, because he didn't ask for it. Like, I want to be mad at him. And. And so I'm reading this verse, and it says, as God in Christ forgave you. And I thought, how did God in Christ. How did God in Christ forgive me? Oh, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. And so I felt like God is saying, I don't care if he's asking for forgiveness. I'm asking you to forgive. Like, I forgive you every day. When you chase your reputation, when you chase your identity, when you chase whatever it is you chase, I want you to forgive your husband like I forgave you. And, you know, it was just. I wrestled with God, and I said, then make me forgive him, because I am so mad and I'm so sad. Like, I'm just so at the bottom. Then you do it. You make me. Because I'm such a firecracker. I thought, I'm gonna ruin his life. I'm gonna take all his money. I'm gonna, like, use the kids so, you know, you can't see your kids.

It's one of those Carrie Underwood moments.

It. Oh, I was gonna do it. And you know, God stops you in your tracks. And so, you know, my husband is doing whatever and in this. There's like this week where I kind of kick him out. And I go to my parents and they're watching the kids and I'm dealing with God and it's a full time job. And I say, like, God held up the sun for me. I mean, what God did for me in seven days was just obviously a miracle. But he asked me to forgive him, and I did forgive him before he asked me. By the end of that week, I was forgiving him, I was forgiving the woman, the other woman. I was forgiving these things that would come up in my mind. You know, she gave him gifts and he wore this watch, like in our family pictures. It's in there. And. And I would have to walk through the hallway and see that watch. And I'd be so mad and just. And God would be like, how about this? Let's work on this today. We're going to forgive this. And I would stare in front of the p. I look like a crazy person. Then I stand in front of the picture and say, I forgive you for that, you know. And so by the end of seven days, and my husband did want to work on it, but by the end of seven days I had already forgiven him. And we had to separate for quite a bit longer after that. But he was repentant and I was working on myself, he was working on himself. And God did a miracle. We're still married today, but not because of how amazing I was, but because of what God did in my heart and my husband's heart. And, you know, that was one of those breadcrumbs where you look at something and you say, I'm just gonna bury that because that was really hard. And now we're better. And I'm not going to ascribe any meaning to that, except that was something hard that we got through. And what I would tell people, and which irritates some people still to this day is like, I'm so grateful for that infidelity. Like, I. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. But I am so grateful for my suffering because God was so near to me. I mean, laying in my bed alone, and I swear I felt his breath on my neck. I say, I spooned with Jesus. And my sister's like, you can't say that. It's weird.

You can say it here, you can say it here. It's not weird.

Booting with Jesus. My new devotional Coming out, never. But, you know, he met me and like, the reward wasn't getting my marriage back, it was God's presence, His nearness. And how that changed me. I mean, just transformed how I live. It still transforms me. So I look back on that breadcrumb and I say, what was meant for evil was used for my good. It completely changed me. It gave me a better marriage than I could have ever asked for. It gave me two more babies that I should, shouldn't have. I can just count the blessings from this intense suffering that we went through.

Wow, that is so powerful. So you had to look at the past, right? What, what happens when you look like, what did God show you when you are open to looking at the past past?

I think to reframe things within His. His mercy and his grace. So God is the great reframer. He is the great redeemer. So you. He takes these situations where there's no hope. You have everybody at the. In the. At the beginning, you know, at the sea saying, we're being chased by these Egyptians. Like, how do we get across this? There's no hope. And then God does some miracle. And we recount that over and over and over again. Because God takes things that are impossible and situations that are impossible, and he makes it work. And so I think just reframing is what this book is all about is it is reframing your past, but it's also saying, and what is God doing in my heart right now? And what is God doing with what I'm dreaming about? You know, God doesn't work in time. But it would be a terrible mistake to say that my life is a haphazard bunch of things. Like the things that I dream about right now, it just random. The things that happened to me, totally random. You know, the situation I'm in right now, oh, how did I get here? And I don't think that is the way that God wants us to live. I think what I would love for people to do is, and women especially, is to take that bird's eye view and to say, what in the world is he doing with all of these pieces? And how can I try and fit them together? Because, you know, why does that matter? Because when you fit them all together, when you come to now, you live very intentionally. You live really on purpose. Because I've made sense of these things and I've said all of these things that have brought me to today. And all the things that I dream about, oh, my gosh, that is living on purpose. You are going to Live on purpose. If you believe that nothing is wasted. If you believe that everything was purposefully chosen for you and that didn't. It had to pass by the hand of God to get to you. And why would that be? Why would that be so, you know, suffering informs your unique empathies. There's, there's no, there's no reason you have a specific empathy in your heart, except something happened to you that you say, and now I'm going to go help other people. So we help other people in marriage situations. You know, I mean, your suffering is going to. You saw something. You know, you saw your mom go through something. You saw your sibling go through something. You, you yourself went through something. Right. And that uniquely shapes you. So, you know, these are the questions I ask women to like, really think about. My, my book has a pink cover and it's like, oh, that's so cute. And then you get in and I'm like, let's talk about your journey and your life and all the hard things and yeah, you know, stuff we need.

To do, it is stuff we need to do. But so what about that woman? And I've come across this a lot. It's like, no, that was in the past. I don't want to go there. I'm done. I'm good. You know, we don't see the patterns of our life as kind of like these aftershocks of things that we've gone through. And it's almost like we don't want to go back to the pain, you know? No, I'm. Yeah, I healed from it. I'm good now. I'm just like focusing on now, which there's a lot to be said. You know, we always hear that God gives us like the big, you know, windshield. Right. And then a tiny little rear view mirror so we can stop looking at the past. Look forward.

Yes.

But we still have to find out if something's like blocking our progress, is something slowing us down? We got to look at what could be going on in the inner workings, like in our conscious, those memories that there could be like past trauma, there could be an experience. There could just be some way that you framed up something. And in a childish mind.

Yeah.

An immature mind or a non spiritual mind. And you may mean something. And now you're kind of like, it's still preventing you. And you wonder why. I still feel like something's like gumming up the works.

Yeah.

What about that person is like, I just don't want to go back there.

Yeah. I would say, you know, what if you did. Now we're not going to live there. We're just going to go back and ascribe meaning to it. We're just going to unpack it. We're going to kind of dig it. We're going to kind of dig around and see what's in there. And what if you find treasure? I mean, what if you find bones? Okay, you buried this like it's this carcass. Carcass. This is gross. But now it's like, you know, it's just disintegrated. Now it's just bones. You know what God does with dry bones.

Right, right, right.

And so why do you doubt what God can do? I would say, like, what if he does something? What if you're missing out on something that God could be doing in your heart and spirit. Spirit. And I'm telling you, he's bigger than the pain, he's bigger than that suffering. He's bigger than the thing that you think he can't fix or the thing that you don't want to go back to. I would just say, what if? And you don't have to be like, full fledged. I'm gonna get in here and dig around. Be like me. When I said, okay, God, I hear your voice. I know, because people are going to be listening to this and it's going to be going tap, tap, tap on something.

Okay?

And it's going to come to your mind and it's tapping on something and you can push it away. But you know, what was already tapped. And I would say just, I do the easy way, which is, thank God you do it. Then you change my heart and you let him do the work. So you don't have to go and say like, I'm going to, you know, be so motivated to get back there. You can say, God, I don't want to. Yeah, not afraid, like, of you. You not wanting to or you having an opinion about the past or whatever. He's not afraid to work with that. But I think if you're willing to, you know, you just say, God, what if. What if you want to do something with that? And if you don't, then don't bring it up. But if you do, let's do it. And I think that's a good way to live.

And even, you know, even David prayed like, search me, oh God, into my heart. See if there's any wicked way in me and lead me in the way everlasting. So if we want to really walk in that powerful, abundant life that Jesus said he came for us to live. You know, John 10:10, he said, I've come that you may have life in abundance to the full till it overflows. If that's not characteristic of our life, maybe we need to do what David did and says, search me into my heart. What. What am I? What pain am I still holding on to? What fear am I still, like, nursing so that I'm not moving forward? And just that willingness to be open. God's not going to waste that. He's going to be like, yes, daughter.

And like, he's not going to give you a snake. I mean, you know, he loves you. He's not. You ask for something, it's not gonna be like, here's a couple rocks, here's a big snake. You know, he is a good father. So he. He can. He knows that you are trying, and he wants to, like, be generous with you and be good to you. So it's not like, oh, no, now I'm going to open this Pandora's box. It's going to be this horrible thing. No, like, change your theology. Like, what do you think about God? He's good. He's kind towards you. Like, the fruits of the spirit are him. He is so loving. He's so gentle. He's so patient with you. He's so good. Like, he's so slow. Like, so slow to anger.

Right.

And, you know, we practice those fruits of the spirit, and we're like, what am I. I'm really lacking in patience. I'm really. I could do better in this area. That's not what the fruits of the spirit are about. Those are just meters. Like, they're saying, if the spirit of the living God lives inside of you, these are the things that are going to come out in you. It's not a meter to be like, tack on more patience. But I also think, try harder. Yeah, but remember that those fruits of the spirit are the spirit of the living God. That's how he looks at you. That's how he wants to interact with you. He's not mad at you.

Mmm, that's so good. He's not mad at you, and he's not. And he. If you don't think you can go into that place of pain, God can walk you in there with his tenderness and his love, and he's your comforter, your protector. And I, you know, talking about the fruit of the spirit, I do think, as Christian women, a lot of times we're like, always holding up a litmus paper to see if we can pass a test or not like, am I good enough today? Am I working today?

But the.

And that's like, I never have seen a tree going, oh, come on, apples.

Come on, grow bigger.

Like, all a tree has to think about is growing those roots down into nourishment.

So I mean, the tree process works. A tree is existing. I, which I like, love this concept and I'm obsessed with it right now. It's just like existing as a woman, especially like without the false self, without all the obligations, without all the things you think you should be doing or acting like. And just existing, that takes a lot of work. Right. Because if I'm not going to care what you think about me or I'm not going to have all these idols or what does it look like to exist? And gardening, I'm such an old lady now, but like, gardening helps me see this. You plant a seed, I'm not kidding. And like, even in nature, like rain is watering it. You're not even in charge of watering. Like in my garden, I get to at least water it and feel like I have a sense of control. But, but in nature, when you see a tree, that tree just got there. It was planted, it was watered, and God didn't ask you about it, didn't need your, like, help, you know, as you drive by and see this fruit tree. And I think about that a lot. That tree is just existing. It is just producing fruit.

Yeah.

And like, I want to get to that place in my own life too. I'm not saying I'm there, but I would love for women to get there too. You are existing as a healthy, rooted tree that produces fruit and it's good, you know, and people can eat off of that. And then you drop even the stuff that doesn't get eaten, it drops and rots into the ground. And then it plants another tree and it's just like, it's natural. If you want to look at the nature of God, just go look at nature. Like, it is so, so pure. You know, humans, we like a lot of razzle dazzle over here.

Yeah.

But nature, it just says a different. It says something.

Yeah. It's not forced. And so many times we're trying to force things instead of just existing and we forget that we're human beings, not human doing. We're always like so caught up in the doing. Yeah. We forget that all God is all we need. Honestly, all we need is just to be in his presence.

Yeah.

And everything settles down.

It does, it's, it's, you know, even when you're asking These questions about your past, even when you're asking big questions about the future, I mean, we're all in different places. Like, what am I supposed to do now? Like, what is my purpose? I think those are good questions. I think they're eat. They show an eagerness to. You want to make a difference, and you want to do right by God and all that stuff. I think those questions, you are asking them with God. So I'm not asking God something. I'm asking with God. God, what. What are we doing? Like, how will you go with me in this? In the future? What do. What are we. What do you have for us? You know, and just. I think shifting your prayers into that kind of language helps you remember that God is with you. I mean, it feels like you're alone, but he is with you.

That's beautiful. I love that. So how can people find out more about you? Get your book, all that stuff. Fill us in.

I mostly do the Lord's work on Instagram. I do a lot of, like, comedy stuff over there. So if you are thinking, oh, she's just talking about her purpose all the time, you're. You're gonna be disappointed. I go target and try on things, and I make fun of myself, but I do a lot of just comedy, a lot of ADHD stuff, a lot of. And I do, like, find your purpose stuff, too, over there. But Instagram is my favorite place. I have a website too, you know, if you want to go read all my marriage secrets, we'll put all the links.

We'll put all the links.

I put. I tried to tell all my secrets in the book, but, like, all my deep, dark secrets, not like, secrets of how to, like, live your best life. It's more like, here's. Here's some of my dirty laundry. Now your turn. Go ahead and show yours. But. But yeah, just Instagram is my. My favorite place to do that.

Beautiful. All right, guys, connect with her on Instagram and also make sure you pick up a copy of her book. This must be the place. Beautiful. Jamie, thank you so much for hanging out with us.

Thank you for having me.

Such a pleasure.