364 | Jeff Allen | Are We There Yet?

All right, guys. Sometimes, especially, I think, for moms, but I'm just speaking as a mom. Our lives can get so crazy that sometimes you can't do anything but just laugh at the sheer absurdity of it all. And that's why I'm so excited about my guest today, Jeff Allen. He's a comedian, and he's found a lot of humor and some of the things in life that we might not want to laugh about. But I want you to hear his story, because I think his story is a lot of times our story, too. So check this out. Jeff, I'm so glad that we're hanging out today. Thank you so much.

Very cool. Well, thank you. There was a time in my life you wouldn't let me anywhere near this podcast, so.

Well, I don't know. We've all had times in our lives like we. We all, like, none of us are perfect. Right. We've all come from something. But so you have. You basically been everywhere. Like, you've been on America's Got Talent, Dry bar comedy, hbo, Puriflex, Comedy Central. VH was like, why you're all over the place and with your comedy. But your comedy today is not always the comedy that it was. So I want to share, if you could share a little bit about your story, like how you basically, like how you came to know Jesus. Like, how did all this happen?

Well, I got married at 30 and got into 12 step recovery at 31.

Wow.

And they. I walked into those rooms and they said, pray. I said, to what? And that was really the kind of the start of the journey. I mean, I'd look around and see people had some sense of peace and calm in their life, and. And they used the word God. I had no concept of whatever that was.

Right, right.

And so anyway, I did what I was told. I prayed. They gave me two prayers. The Serenity prayer. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference. And then my favorite one that I repeated constantly was, God, remove me from the bondage of self so that I may better do thy will. Take away my difficulties so that victory over them. Others may bear witness to thy strength, thy power, and their way of life. And I had no idea what I was praying, but I was told to do it. And if I wanted to stay sober, I would do what I was told. So, yeah, that's kind of what I did. Which is where the title of the book came from. Are We There Yet? It's kind of you get on this recovery journey and you're like a child in the backseat of a car, you know, I mean, you have nothing, no idea where you're going, you know, what the. No idea what the destination is. Yeah, I just knew I didn't want to drink again. And I naively thought if I quit drinking and doing drugs that then my life would get better.

But. So. Wow, so you, so here you are. You're basically just kind of numbing yourself in life.

Yes, yes. Since I was 13 or 14, if it's true what they say. Somebody said, I, I don't know where I heard this, but I heard it. And they said if, if an alcoholic, when they start, is where they remain emotionally. So I started, I started at 13, so. And it, it resonated with me because I really was like an impetuous teenager as a husband. I really was. I mean, stomping around. If things didn't go my way, I, I'd have fits and hissy fits and I'd break things and smash things and yell and scream and. Like a child, you know, again, in hindsight, you know, when you're, when you're in it. But that made sense to me and it was a, it was a truth that I carried. I said, okay, then I need to. I called it my own personal cryogenic program. I froze myself as an adolescent and then decided to get married and have children. So imagine being her.

Yeah, yeah. So, so basically this is like your recovery journey.

Yes, yeah, exactly. Yeah. The, the, the seven or eight years that ultimately led to my relationship with Christ.

Yeah.

And, you know, the last half of the book, we share a little bit about that, but the first half, you know, I always tell people, if you get through the first six chapters without killing yourself, it's actually an uplifting tale.

God, was it that bad? Like, what was it like? Were there. How was it?

Angry, Bitter, jaded, cynical, foul mouth human being. I had, I was a nihilist. I didn't know there was a term for it, but when I heard it, I went, oh, that's what I was.

Wow. Now, how did you get there? Like, what was the, what was the thing in life that you made you want to numb from? What was.

Well, I, you know, I don't know. I just, you know, again, my. The men in our family drank. You know, that's what they did. So, you know, for role models. The first drunk I ever did, I got sick and I couldn't get out of bed. I just vomited on the side of the bed and my Mother was cleaning it up, and I heard my father say, if he wants to drink like a man, let him sleep in it like a man. So that was kind of my first foray into drinking was, okay, men drink, and if you get sick, you sleep. I mean, it's like, you know, that's the message I got. My parents didn't care if I drank. I was 13 or 14. They said, I'd rather. We'd rather have you drink with us than out there in the. You know. So I had a lot of mixed. Not even mixed messages. It was pretty, you know, do what you want.

Life is like.

It's interesting.

It sucks. You drink, you numb.

Right, Exactly. And so all of a sudden, you get 30 years old and you. You know, I got this beautiful wife and children who. Prior to that, it's interesting. I. I got into therapy, and she put a book in my hand, Road Less Traveled. It was the first book I read. Wow. And it was. Life is difficult. That's what I got out of that. The opening line of the book is, life is difficult when it can be accepted as such. It no longer really is difficult. It's just a series of things that need to be solved and fixed. I mean, and it. That made sense to me. Okay, I need new tools. And then the. The really. The.

The.

The big thing that came out of that book was true love can't exist in a relationship until conflict enters the relationship.

Tell me about that. Like.

Well, that resonated with me. There's no such thing as a loving human relationship without conflict. I mean, anybody over 20 probably knows that, you know, But I. I fled. Conflict resolution in my home growing up was pretty simple if you. If you stood up for yourself. I got pitched against the wall by either my brother or my father. So I learned to flee my fight or flight.

My.

My fight or flight instincts kick in when conflict entered. So I always fled. Any girl I was dating, you know, eventually conflict would enter and I would just leave. That was it. I would. I wouldn't even have the courage to call them up and tell them I'm leaving. I just would ignore them, and eventually they'd see me somewhere and punch me. You know, it just took off. I mean, that's it. So now I'm married and I can't leave. I go to another room. I mean, I would try to flee to a corner of the house or whatever, and my reaction was to just smash things. And one night I got on a stool and I yelled at my wife until she fell to her knees. I Mean, I'm standing on a stool over my wife, screaming at her, you know, and then I put my son to bed that night and he goes, daddy, you win. I go, what do you mean I win? He goes, you yell, mommy cries, you win. And not one of my prouder moments. Then I went downstairs and told.

How old was.

He was five or six.

Yeah.

So I went downstairs and I told Tammy, I said, I'm going to get help. I'm going to go find a professional. I don't want to be this way. And that was the journey. You wake up and you go, why am I like this? Why am I, you know, I mean, you behaving in ways that just unbecoming. And, and it was, that's the journey in the book. The seven or eight years of just trying to find some semblance of peace and calm between my ears. And the, the nihilism came because I, I, you know, I, I what? I didn't realize I had a spiritual thirst. So all these books I would read self help and New Age and Buddhism and, you know, I, it would be like you're in a arid area and you get a puddle and you take a quench, and it would quench it for briefly. I'd come home and tell Tammy, I think I got it. I think, I think I'll be okay.

Wow.

She go, that's great, Jeff. We're losing the house, you know, we're losing, you know, and, and you don't care. And I go, I don't care. I don't care. And she goes, what do you mean? I go, I'm sorry. I, I want to care, but I just don't know why it matters. And when I can figure that out, I think I, I think I'll be okay. I just need to know why having a, a nice house or car or whatever matters. You know, obviously you need clothing and shelter to survive, but I mean, you know, we can get that just about anywhere in America. I wasn't worried about that. I was just, you know, again, I had beautiful. I mean, you check the boxes.

Yeah, but it wasn't, but it didn't fit the bill. It was.

Right.

Yeah, Right.

I just needed to know why, you know, And I look at her and I go, don't you ever wonder? She goes, no. I'm raising two kids alone. You signed on for things you're not delivering. I can't make the money you make, you know, we're lo. Again, that's all she looked at. All Tammy ever wanted to be with her life Was a homemaker. I mean, it's that she showed me a paper she wrote in third grade. I want to be a mommy. I want to, you know, and here she gets some guy, you know, it's not holding his end up. And yeah, you know, people interview her, they ask her, why did you stay with him? And she said, you know, I got married to him because I, I wanted, I thought it would be security.

Wow. And turned out to be anything but that.

Absolutely. So you imagine the panic, you know, the night, you know, that I got into recovery. I spanked my six month old son in the crib. You know, I was drunk and, and he was crying and, you know, spanked him and Tammy took him away from me and she goes, who does this?

Yeah.

You know, and sat on the end of the bed and fed him, you know, and, and that really washed out. That was the biggest, that shame that washed over me that night. You know, I mean, I'd been in drunk tanks, I've been in bar fight, you know what I mean? That's just part of being a drunk. But that was, I mean, when the reality of what I did hit me, I said I couldn't think of anything lower in my life. And I told her, I need help, I'm gonna go, you know, and I started my 12 step journey. Yeah, through that, you know, and beautiful. You know, you get seven years in and, and you're just, is this it? Is this all there is? And that's kind of the title of the book. Are we there yet? I kept asking there, I mean, am I there?

Recovery? When am I recovered?

That's it. That was it. When I went, When I got to the therapist, when I got to the therapist, I said, when am I done with this? I don't want to come to you the rest of my life. And she said, well, when you make better choices, right now, you make lousy choices. You know, most of us have to be our own therapists. But when you got faulty information, you know, it's kind of hard to, you know, sift through the debris that you were given as a child. The messages you got. Exactly.

And you recorded all of those messages at such a young age.

Right.

It became like buried in your subconscious. So now, whether you like it or not, you're going to always run into yourself like you're, you're going to go down every path. And I think when we ask ourselves, what's wrong with me? I think sometimes that's the wrong question. If we could just turn it around to say what happened to me right then there's less of the shame, of course, because we know there's no condemnation in Christ. There's less of the shame, there's less of the condemnation. And now that brokenness can just be given to God. It's like, this is, this is the broken, this is what happened to me. And he always restores. So how did you, like, when did you first find out about Jesus? When did you first, like, like, well, again, I was. You had gone from puddle to puddle, quenching the thirst, but, but never finding that spring, that like everlasting spring. So what happened? What was it like? You're in this journey, you gotta recover. You keep running into yourself at every turn in the room.

I was, I finally came the conclusion I need to make some money.

Okay, so.

And if money is the answer to, you know, to life, then I'll see how good I can get at it. And I was reading Ain Rand now I think I was reading Atlas Shrugged and I've often said that if I wasn't a Bible believing Christian, I'd probably be an, a objectivist. I, I really. And the interesting thing about her writings, it was I read it in the 90s and they, and I was living in Arizona and they did a survey of the readers, the, the Arizona Republic and then the top ten books that they read. Number one was the Bible, number two was Atlas Shrugged.

Wow.

Yeah. So I'm reading Ayn Rand and I'm excited. This is okay, I get okay, you know, and, and it's funny because years later I read it again as a Christian and I realized it's just the most dark book. There's no children, there's, it's all black and white. There's no colors, there's no, you know.

There'S nothing like life for me, life without Jesus. It is colorless, it's lifeless.

So, well, that's it, you know, so it was just straight reason and logic, you know, which is not a way to, you know, who wants to live with that. There is some sense of connection on the emotional level, existential level that you, you know, it's like somebody said, what do you, what do you love about Jesus? And I, and I remember telling him, I said, what do you love about your wife? And he gave me a bunch of things. You know, she's beautiful, she's intelligent, she's sense of humor and all this stuff. And I said, what if I find you someone prettier, smarter and funnier? Would you dump her? And he said, no. And I said, that's Jesus. It's those intangibles that you can't put your finger on, you can't taste, you can't touch. It's. It's a. It's at a deep level. And again, I can't give it to you. I can't hand it to you, and reason and logic will not explain it to you.

Right.

So just understand that I love Jesus and I love my wife, and it should be enough for you. So get out of my face.

That's always the way to win people to Jesus.

Right, Exactly. So anyway, I'm. I'm reading Ain Ra, and I hear about a guy, he's a businessman. He's doing comedy for 100 bucks a week at the clubs, and I'm working clubs. And I find out because of his wealth, he can get me on some really nice golf courses. And if you had something I wanted, I could be relatively charming. So I decided you don't tell them.

To get out of your face if they can get.

Not at all.

Okay. That's a nice attribute.

That's exactly. So anyway, I find out about him. I hook up. We're working in Tampa, and we're on a golf course. Again, I'm reading Ayn Rand. He's wealthy. I'm trying to figure out, how do you accumulate wealth? I'm asking him about that, and he said, you don't want a lot of money. I go, I don't. He goes, you can't handle what little you have. He said, believe me, a lot would be a burden. And he said, I'll give you one tip on how to accumulate wealth if you. If you adhere to this. He said, you'll do pretty well in life. Never buy anything on credit that depreciates in value. He goes, that should eliminate 98 of your credit purchases.

Wow, that's good.

Yeah. So anyway, as we were talking, he said. He said, and besides, in order to enjoy the creation, you have to have a relationship with the one who created it. And I thought, wow, that's kind of cool. Where'd you read that? He goes, well, the relationship is the Bible. It's Jesus. And I went, oh, okay. And a couple holes went by. He said, something else. And I go, that's great. Where'd you read? He said, bible. I said, stop it with the Bible. He goes, what's wrong with the Bible? I said, well, I'm an atheist. I don't. I don't really believe in God. I mean, God, God's word. That's. That's a tad archaic. Right. And he says, well, what's in the Bible you don't think is true? And I go, I don't know. I never actually read the Bible. He goes, you're not really an atheist. You're a. You know.

You'Re a moron.

Yeah. And he said. I said, well, how so? And he went on to explain that the. The Bible, it's the most influential book in the history of the world. He said, let me repeat that. In the world, this is the most influential book. And he went back. He talked about Luther's Reformation. He said, when the masses, when the huddled masses found out they could read God's word, literacy rates shot through the roof. Everybody wanted to learn how to read then. And then they read in the beginning God. And they go, well, God's a creator, so I'm going to be a creator. Entrepreneurship shot through the roof. And he said, you can't even crack it open. He goes, that's lazy and moronic. So. And he said, I'd like to help you out. I go to a church in Texas. They teach the Bible every week. Pastor Tom Nelson, and I'd like to sign you up for the tapes. And I said, will it cost me any money? He goes, nope. And I said, well, you can send me whatever you want. I don't care. And then, literally two days after we parted company, the Bible came. I sent me a Bible. I threw that in a junk drawer. And the tapes, I never opened for like a year and a half. I just never opened them. But we had a friendship, and it always ended the same way. How are you and Tammy doing? Not too good, Phil. And he goes, well, we pray for your marriage. I go, why? And he said, well, we think marriages are ordained from God. They did. They. That God didn't put you two together just to create another life and for you to move on.

Right.

Those kids need. They want you. They need you as a father, and we're praying for you. Is that all right? I go, yeah, I don't care. Knock yourself out. And. And then eventually we got divorce papers filled out. We were 10 minutes from filing them when Tammy changed her mind. She said, this is wrong. Let's go home. And. And I looked at her on the side of the road on in Arizona when we were living there, and I said, you're out. And she said, what do you mean? I said, we file these papers, Tammy. You're out. You deserve better than me. I said, I'm trying, baby. I'm trying so hard. I just don't know how to not smash things and how not to. How not to destroy everything around me.

Right, right.

So she said, let's go home. And I said, if we go home, you're in for the long haul. When we got married, you didn't know me. You've had seven years now to, you know, you want this. She said, I do. I said, all right. And then a few months went by, she took the kids and said, I'm going to Ohio. You're draining me. I mean, you just got to figure out what you're going to do with your adult life. If you don't want to do comedy anymore, don't do it, but find something.

Yeah, yeah, We.

You know, we're losing everything. And anyway, she gathered up all these Bible tapes and threw them on the floor and said, if you're not going to listen to these, I'm throwing them out. I mean, as you can imagine, as a home. Homemaker.

Yeah.

All these vanilla envelopes are on the fridge. They're under the fridge, right? Yeah, they're all over the place. So anyway, I. Eventually, I just walked by, opened one up. It was Ecclesiastes. And I heard, meaningless, meaningless. And from that moment on, my heart left. That's so true. That is so true. It's all meaningless. It's pointless, you know, and then you get to verse five or, I don't know, wherever Solomon wrote 3,000 years ago, the eyes never get enough of seeing. The ears never get enough of hearing. And I'm looking at my video library and my audio library, and I'm going, wow, that is so true. I can't stuff enough stuff inside me, you know, And I went from there. I spent too much time probably in the Old Testament, you know, because I got to. In the beginning, God created, and I knew there was a God. And I fell on my face and just out of fear, and I was sobbing, and I called my buddy up, and I'm going, there's a God. There's a God. He goes, yeah. I've been trying to tell you, like, for a year, but he said, what's the problem? I said, blasphemy. Cursing him. How's that? He goes, I said, why would he want me? And he said, get to the cross and spend some time in the New Testament. And. And then I heard the Prodigal Son. And I don't. I. To this day, if I. If I hear a sermon on the Prodigal Son, I can't hold it in. It's just the. The image of this father, this. This loving father who Son, it just peed away his inheritance, did everything, you know, basically blasphemed his father and the gifts that he gave him. And he just says, and he runs, runs, runs to him to meet his son.

I mean, the whole time looking at the horizon, waiting for him to come back home.

How cool is that? And then the resentment, and the resentment of the younger brother who's going, I did everything right, you know, and he's, and you hear, I hear that in church, you know, I did everything right. But yet there's still this, but there's this conflict. And I said, there's, there's, even your relationship with Jesus will have conflict because it's loving. Every loving relationship.

Both are off. Both are off. One doesn't realize at all times he did have the inheritance and the other one didn't value the inheritance.

Right.

And, and we see both.

Yeah.

And here's the father saying, don't you know at all times you had everything right? Everything, because you're my son. And that's what, that's the same message we hear, like whether you're, you're, you pissed away everything or whether you have tried to do everything right.

Right.

Both are off target. And when we know the love of the Father.

Right. That's what Paul say, my grace, My grace is sufficient for you.

Yeah.

It sounds so simple.

What if it is so simple though?

It is though. I mean, I've had friend, you know, very wise friends in my life. And it was interesting. I wasn't raised in a church. I wasn't raised anywhere near a church. My father told me to stay away from Christians. They're bad people.

Wow.

So I had no baggage when I got into those 12 step rooms.

You know what? Like, that's good, that's good religious baggage. Sometimes you can start with a fresh relationship with God and see.

Well, it's interesting. Within three or four years, I'd become a legalist. I, I couldn't perform well enough. And, and a friend of mine sat me down one day and he said, you just don't get it. I go, what do you mean? He goes, it's God's grace. You'll never perform well enough. Don't you get that? Ever, Ever. Now let me repeat that. Ever perform well enough, you have to accept his grace. So for you to say that I'm not worthy of his grace because my performance is bad is a slap in the Father's face.

Yeah.

Otherwise I'm here. The Father's telling you over and over again, repeatedly, I love you. I love you just the way you are, and you go, why? I don't get that. You know, I don't get that. Which is what I love most about my wife. She knows everything. And she still prefers to hug and kiss me in the morning. I don't. I don't. At times, I don't get that. I really don't.

So beautiful. But, yeah, that. That place that we can get to think of, thinking I need to be worthy. This love. Love. And we. We've just canceled out the cross. We've just said, Jesus absolutely 100.

Just basically said that the. The scripture is not true. Your grace isn't good enough.

Yeah.

And I need to perform.

And.

And I. I realized that it's exhausting. But a GK Chesterton. Yeah. GK Testerson. Said that it's not that Christianity was tried and found. Found wanting. It was tried, found too difficult and abandoned. And that's because we add the rules and the regulations to it. We just, you know, in the world looks at us and says, you're not perfect. Well, thank you. Welcome to the party. That's the first prerequisite to accepting Jesus. Yeah. When my friend was leading me to Christ, he goes, can you admit you're a sinner? I go, well, let's not go overboard, all right? Yeah. When God breaks you, when God really convicts you of who you are and the wretchedness that lives within your heart, it's the simplest thing in the world to go, yeah, I'm. I'm okay. I'm okay with it, too. I mean, I'm. I'm looking forward to the. And. And that's been the struggle for 25 years. It's the old nature and the Holy Spirit continue to just, you know, collide, you know, and. And then again, remove me from the bondage of self so that I may better do thy will.

Oh, so beautiful. So beautiful. And when. And the thing is, like, we're often not okay with our sinful state. Like, we're. We're often like. We look at our past, we look at situations, and we feel the shame, we feel the condemnation. But the thing is, like, God knows everything about us. Just like you shared with your, you know, your wife knows everything about. She loves you anyway. And he's like, I. I still got you.

Yeah. You're still 100. 100. Yeah. We got into Covid, and you know the joke.

I said, how did you handle that being.

Well, it was interesting. At 30 days, Tammy comes to me and says, I've been waiting to say this. Welcome home. She Says, you haven't been home for 30 consecutive days in our entire marriage. And I go, that's not true. She goes, no, I've been waiting to say this. And I say, by day 45, we were looking for attorneys. It was not. It was not pretty.

I travel.

It was not pretty. It was funny, too. The only worst time we ever had in our marriage since. Since accepting Christ was during a remodel. And I used to say, we were laying in bed and Tammy leans over and she goes, you know, our life is really, really good. What can we do to screw it up? I know, let's gut the house, you know, and let's live like college kids down in the basement for three months. I mean, it was. There was a point where she said to me, and it really cut me. I mean, it cut me. She said, you haven't changed in 20 years. Listen to you. And I stopped. I went, I'm not that bad. She goes, yeah, you are. And I had to go upstairs and do some soul searching. Okay. I've been. I've been a little snotty. Okay. I'll give you that. Yeah, I'm a little snippy, but I just want my bed back, that's all.

I'm tired of cooking out the comforts of life. Is that much to ask?

Tired of cooking on a hot plate.

So. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. That's where you, like, leave. You just leave us together. You decide.

But I'll tell you this. After four months off on Covid. Five months. I was off five months. I went on the road to do my first club in five months. I came home and told her if we had the money, I'd retire.

Oh, yeah?

Yeah. I said, I. It's a grind. I mean, going to the airport and, you know, all of that. And I said, and the thought of having to do it. And now once you're in it, it's just life. I mean, I don't, you know, I'm getting up at 3:30 in the morning on Friday and headed to New York for some interviews in New York. And the other day I did Good Morning America. We flew in and flew back. And I said, that was a lot of work for four minutes.

No. Right. And when it's, when it's over, you're like, God, was that one worth it?

Right. I can't even remember what I said.

You know, I think you're too tired.

Yeah. And Tammy, Tammy said, she goes, I watched it. She said you were okay. And she's like the harshest critic She's. I married my father. My father tossed compliment. My father tossed compliments around like manhole covers. I mean, they were not. They were not easy. Yeah, he managed to eat one out every now and then. You know, and Tammy, I've often said that if she went to the Louvre and one picture was slightly askew, that would ruin the entire. She would. She would. Her eyes would go to it, and that's all she would talk about. You know, God gave me a wonderful editor in my life.

That's right. He knows how to Paris. He knows how to Paris with what we need. Absolutely.

And she always told the children, don't you half ass it. Don't you have that? You do the work you do. You do it for the glory of God and you'll do the best work you can do.

Wow. So good. So. So someone who's listening, someone who's watching right now, and they're like, jeff, I have been at this for so long. Like, I like it sometimes when we are. When we're in the process of healing or recovering or getting to that next level, whatever it is. I know sometimes we get in these little valleys because the growth process is never a straight line.

Not at all. Always up and not even close.

Oh, my gosh. And sometimes we get in these valleys and we. And I think we have a tendency to think, am I seriously here again?

Yeah, exactly.

Am I going to stay this way forever? Like, what would you say to that person who might be struggling with that right now? It's like this process, is this even worth it? Because I feel like I'm bumping up against the same version of me at every turn.

Well, again, it's. You know, it's interesting. I was four or five years into my walk with Jesus and I. I hit that point where I'm ready to abandon. I'm just gone. I can't live it. I can't get it right. I can't. I've just, you know, and then you kind of look back and go, holy cow, I've come a long way. Maybe we really have. Well, and also, you have to understand, if you believe in. In. In. In God, you believe in Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Understand that there's another voice that lives within us that's the author of lies.

Yeah.

So the. The question you ask yourself when your brain starts chirping to you, you ask it, what is your source of information? Where is this coming from?

That's good.

And if it's coming from a deep part of pain or hurt, then maybe there's a chance to grow from it. But it's a lie. It's a lie. God would never say those things to you. Give up. I mean, I remember right before we went to Washington, D.C. for an important thing. I had a. I had an episode, I write about it in the book, where my son and my wife were sitting on me in the living room. I wanted to go out, and I was just going to wrap the car around a tree. I was done. I'm just. I'm screaming, I want to just die. I want to die. Just leave me alone. I want to die. I don't even know where it came from, honestly.

Yeah, that's like just demise.

I honestly always.

Yeah, right, Totally.

Anyway, finally calm down. I go to the bedroom. She goes to the kitchen, and she comes into the bedroom. Ten minutes later, we're not going to talk about this. I go. I have no idea. I have no idea where this came from. You know, and then we were flipped on the TV right before we went to the airport. Adrian Rogers, pastor out of Memphis, Texas, Tennessee, was talking about demonic. The demonic realm. And you go, really? Because I really. I set up until then, I wasn't really a big devil guy.

Right, right, right.

People use it as an excuse.

Yeah.

But then you. Then I. I couldn't come up with another explanation for it.

No.

I mean, honestly, it was so out of character. I mean, even back when my worst. I was never like. That was never suicidal. I was never like, you know, get off of me. Leave me. You know? And so I. I realized there's an author of life, there's an author of lies. And when my brain starts chirping, I have to remember, is it my old nature or is it the Holy Spirit? And the Holy Spirit does not call you a hypocrite, doesn't call you a loser, doesn't call you a piece of trash. Doesn't. You know that. That barrage that comes up, you know, and you know, because I hit a golf shot. That's bad. Oh, you're a loser. You're. You suck.

Seriously, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It's that voice that says, it's not going to work out.

You may as well abandon abandoned ship. Abandoned. Then, you know you're on the right track. Yeah, you know you're on the right track when.

That's it, you know you're on the right track. Use that voice like. Like. And it happens to everybody. So I think we need to talk about this more, is that. This is so out of character for me. Why am I thinking this? Why am I saying this? Why do I. This way? We have to know that's not the voice of God. That is the voice of. We have an enemy, and for some reason we've riled him up. He's. He's mad, right? And so he's going to attack us and get us to say these things. And as soon as we know, wait a minute, this is. This is demonic. This is coming from the author of lies. And all we can say are lies. So now let me turn around whatever is in my head and coming out of my mouth, if it's a lie, what would be the truth here? And that's all. We can, like, use that voice as a way to, to stay on track. So what would you. What would you tell someone there, like, you're in that valley? What, this grace message, how can it help them today?

Well, it's counterintuitive, but go serve someone. Get out of your house. Isolationism is what the devil thrives the most.

Yeah.

And one of the best gifts I was ever given early in recovery, a sponsor gave me trash bags. And I said, what are these? He goes, when you get in that moment, that point point where you're just, you can't do it anymore, Go pick up trash, go to a mini mart, gas station, whatever side of the road. And here's the hard part, don't let anybody see what you're doing, because your pride will kick in and you'll start feeling good for all the wrong reasons. He said, what this will do is get you out of your own head. And we were wired for worship, and we were wired by God to serve. And it's so counterintuitive. The last thing you want to do when you feel like that is get up off your bed, off the couch, or wherever you're at and, and function. But if you're going to wait until you feel better to do, to do that, it's. It's. It's going to be harder and harder. So, sir, find. Find a community. Find somebody. I don't care. Again, get some trash bags and just go to a maniar and pick up some. It works. It was amazing. I mean, I want. I was driving home one day and I didn't want to go home because I knew. I get an argument with Tammy and I knew. I just didn't to want. I wanted to drink. I wanted to do all the bad things. And I saw those stupid trash bags sitting on the passenger seat. I go, all right, I'll do it, because I. You know, you do what you're told. And anyway, I went in there and I started, and lo and behold, within five minutes, I wasn't thinking about any of that stuff anymore. And then I got in the car and I drove home and I was actually civil to my wife and kids. And I learned something that day that again, we were wired to serve. We are wired to serve.

We're wired to serve. We're wired to worship. That's what we go to. Oh, I love that so much. Jeff, thank you so much for sharing your journey and just helping other people in their journey. Really appreciate you being on the show today.

Thank you so much, Hannah. Have a great day.

All right, where can people find out more information about you?

Jeff Allen comedy?

They're going to want to know more.

Jeffallencomedy.com and you can go to Amazon or go to Sam's Club and pick the book up. Are we there yet? My journey from a messed up to a meaningful life.

Beautiful. And no matter where you are in the journey, guys, grab this book. It's so. It's such an amazing testimony of what God can do in the life of someone who believes. Thank you so much.