369 | Dr. Gary Chapman | Love Is A Choice

All right.

In a marriage, sometimes love isn't always like that feeling that's there. And I love what Dr. Gary Chapman shares about love being a choice. So how do we do this if love is a choice? If love is really that verb of, like, choosing to stay in that place, what is that place? And how do we make that choice even when we don't feel like it? That's why I'm super excited today to have Dr. Gary Chapman here on the Hannah Keeley Podcast to talk about how to make that choice. I'm so happy that you're here today. Thank you so much. Every minute I get to spend with you is a blessing.

Well, thank you, Hannah. It's good to be with you.

Oh, my goodness. I love it. So, okay, we've heard about love being a verb. It's not a feeling, it's a choice. But you really, in your most recent book, Love is a Choice, where you share these stories of the love languages, tell us a little bit about the backstory there. Why? Why this? Why now?

Well, you know, I think if you look at our country and where we are, you see a lot of animosity, a lot of hatred, not as much love. And of course, the. For the Christian, this is the identifying mark of the Christian. Jesus said, this is the way they'll know that you belong to you, have.

Love one for another.

That's right. It makes love pretty important, you know, so what I enjoyed was collecting these various stories and all kinds of things, not just marriage, but in all kind of relationships, just to show the power of loving other people when they maybe are not loving you or maybe you've just encountered them, but you become a person that brings into their life an expression. I care about you. I want to do what I can to help you. If we have that attitude of love, then we will find places in which to express love.

You know, I just don't think you can ever go wrong choosing love. I just don't. And I. And I've seen so many times how we, you know, I mean, you see it. I see we live in a world that's very judgmental. We're very critical, we're very fragile. You know, like, so. So many people are so fragile today, and you can't offend anyone. And I just think if you choose love, you're. You're not going to go wrong there. You know, like love. I don't think love means tolerance. I think love is something very different.

Yeah, yeah. Love is seeking to have a positive influence and impact on another person's. Life. In a marriage, it's the husband who has the attitude, I want to do everything I can to help you become the person that you believe God wants you to become. He has that attitude toward him, Then they find ways to express it. They have that attitude toward the children. And if we choose an attitude, you see, we don't choose our feelings. Our feelings are just natural responses to circumstances. But attitude we choose every single day. We either have an attitude of love or the opposite is an attitude of selfishness. I'm in this relationship for you to make me happy. I'm in this business deal for what I can get out of it.

Wow.

And two selfish people will never have a good marriage. And two selfish people will never create a family where love is a theme. So I just think it's one of the most important things in life, not just in marriage, but in every relationship we have. If we can choose an attitude of love. And I think we have God's help in this as Christians because we know this is his plan. You know, Peter said about Jesus, he went about doing good. Yeah. Jesus said about himself, I didn't come to be served. I came to serve and ultimately give my life. So we choose the attitude of love and then we look for opportunities in which we can genuinely speak into other people's lives.

That is so powerful. You know, we've heard, you know, perfect love drives out fear. That's, that's what's written in scripture. And, and a lot of times you'll talk about how fear is the opposite of love because perfect love can drive out fear. And when you say that a relationship between two selfish people cannot, cannot yield anything productive there, that selfishness, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but that selfishness is a circumstance produced from fear because we're. That fear means I need to look out for myself, I need to protect myself, I need to get everything from me. And that's why, you know, if we're operating by fear, it will show up in a relationship sometimes as selfishness.

Yeah. And I think by nature, let's be honest, by nature, all of us are self centered 100%. You know, there are positive parts about that. That means we get food, we get sleep, we get exercise, we, we try to take care of our bodies and so forth. It's not all bad. But if that's the way we live and that's all we do and everything is focused on us and what am I getting out of it, we're going to end up sad. We're going to be sad on the journey, and we're going to end up sad, the end of the journey, because.

Nothing'S going to fulfill that void. Nothing.

Right.

Nothing will.

Right? Yeah.

And so in, in a relationship, like, help. Help someone understand who may be listening, watching today. And they're like, But, Dr. Chapman, you. You just don't understand. I know you've heard this a million times with your relationship counseling, but you don't understand. I am being loving. I am choosing love. It's just not reciprocated and I'm done. Like, what would she say to that person who's like, I've chosen it, but it's not working?

Well, first of all, I'm empathetic because when you are genuinely trying to express love to another person, particularly in a marriage, and it's not reciprocated, you do get frustrated. Now, part of the problem is that many times that person that is loving them is not expressing love in their love language.

Wow.

That's why the love language concept is so important. You know, maybe he's doing all kind of things for her. He's washing dishes, he's vacuuming floors, he helps with the meals, he washes the car, he mows the grass. And. And in his mind, that's the way you love a lot, you know, and she says to me in the office and with him there, she said, duncan chairman, yes, he does all those things, but we don't ever talk. We talked in years. He's always doing something. And see, he is sincere, sincerely expressing love the best way he knows how, acts of service. But her love language is quality time, and she's dying for quality time. So many times that's the problem. When we are loving the spouse and when they don't reciprocate, it's because we're loving them, perhaps in our language rather than in their language. But that doesn't mean that if you do speak their language consistently, that they will reciprocate. Because again, love is a choice. I. I had a man say to me some time ago, he said, gary, my wife and I read your book on the five love languages. We took the quiz. Her love language is acts of service. But I'm going to tell you and her, if it's going to take my washing dishes and my vacuum and floors for her to feel love, she can forget that. See, it's what.

And I said to him, that was a choice. Wow.

I said to him, that's your choice. If you choose not to express love to your wife in a meaningful way. To her, that's your choice. If you want to live with a wife who has what I call an empty love tank, that's your choice. Love is a choice. We can't make somebody love us. And I think you have to realize that if we are loving them and if they're not reciprocating, we can make requests of them. Nothing wrong with saying, honey, would it be possible for you to give me a back rub if physical touch is your language, for example.

Right.

Would it be possible after dinner that we could take a walk? It's fine to make a request, but love doesn't make demands. Doesn't say, you've got to do this or I'm out of here. No, no, no, no.

Right.

You know, God didn't do that for us. Jesus died for us while we were still sinners.

Yeah.

And so we love even though we're not being loved. And eventually, in most cases, eventually genuine love expressed in the right language over a period of time, the person will reciprocate because everybody has the need to feel loved.

Yeah. Yeah. That's so true. And we also are able to love because he first loved us. Like, that demonstration of love from God toward us now enables us to love, even in a place where we could think is unreciprocated.

Yeah.

So it just is that. Is that fullness out of which is that outpouring where we can just show love to everyone and anyone. And I truly think. And. And this time when people often, you know, we already talked about it. Appear so volatile love can often diffuse something that's very, you know, it could be a critical situation. We don't know, but. But when we just decide. I remember when I read the verse, put on love when I came across that. Dr. Chapman, I was a young mom with little kids. You know, they're all grown now. Right. And I remember thinking, you know, I want to teach my children this. And in the morning, when we would, you know, I would make breakfast and they would start coming in, I was like, all right, kids. They're all little. Like, as teenage 20s and 30s, actually, they would probably have more fun doing it now. But I would say, okay, now remember, we're not fully dressed. What do we have to put on? And we would put on our love pants and put on our love shirt and put on our love hat. And I would just help them understand that we're not fully dressed to. We put on love, and that's how we're going to go out into the world. That's how we're Going to go into relationships is how we're going to go into, go into school that day. You know, we're going to put on love. That's going to be what we put forward. And I think today, if people can get dressed in the morning that way, it might change a lot of things.

I like that. I like that a lot, you know, and this, this book is just filled with stories like that. One of. One of the ones that I just. I cried when I read it. She was a lady who had retired. She had been a librarian all her life. She and her husband retired. They had never had children. And so she was in her backyard working in a garden, in her garden. And a little girl came through the bushes. She turned and looked at the little girl. The little girl said, can we play together? And she said, well, honey, I'm busy right now. And she said, well, I'm Lillian. Can we play together? She said, I was just so touched. And I said, well, what would you like to play? And she said, I like to play house. And I want you to be the child and me to be the mother. And so she said, I just took off my gloves. Okay, honey, let's play. Let's play house. And we went over under a shade tree and we played house for 20 minutes or so. She said. And then I said to her, now, honey, I've got to go back and work in my garden now, so you go home, okay? So she did. And. And the lady said, I thought that would be it. But the next morning, a little knock on my back door and I went there and it was this little girl. And she said, what are you doing? And she said, I'm cooking. And she said, can I help you? And she said, no, honey, you go back home and help your mother. And she said, my mother's not there. And she said, well, who's with you at your home? And she said, I have a babysitter. And she said, can I help you? She said, come on in, honey. And she let her stir some soup or something. And the lady said, that was the beginning of a 20 plus year relationship.

What?

And she said he would come over, we would play. I would play with her, you know, later, as she got older, we'd sit in the swing and we would talk. And she said even when she went off to college, when every time she came home, she would come to see me. Even after her family moved away, she'd come and see me. Said she became the daughter I never had. And she said, I look back on it and realize what I did. I took what was an interruption and made it an opportunity to love a little girl. Wow. And she said it was one of the greatest decisions I ever made in my life. And, you know, how to all of us have interruptions with people throughout the day. I mean, they feel like interruptions because we got something to do, you know, but we recognize that every interruption is an opportunity to express love. So beautiful, can have a tremendous impact.

And now you got me crying. So that is so beautiful. There's nothing more beautiful than just the act of choosing love.

Yeah.

And I, and I love that this is not just married couples. Yes. That's where, I mean, that's the, you know, Jesus in the church. That's that, that's that metaphor we have of what the example of love. Jesus laying down his life for his bride and the bride receiving that and welcoming that. And, and I just think when we choose love, like those interruptions, when they become opportunities, that's when we get to grasp onto a very new, deeper level of love that we may not have even, even been aware of before that point.

Yeah, that's absolutely right. And, you know, it's not always a 20 year deal. I remember another story in the book was a family that was going to Carlsbad Caverns to take a hike on their vacation. They got there and they realized there was a line and people were turning around and coming out. And they got there and they heard the ranger saying to the man in front of them, I'm sorry, but the park is closed because of the snow. It's just too dangerous for you to go in. And the man ahead of them kind of lashed out at him. So what do you mean it's not snowing? It's not that bad, you know? Yeah. So this guy, when he got up there and he got the same message, he said, well, thank you for looking out for us. I know it's cold out there, but thank you for looking out for us. And the gentleman said, yes, have a, have a good day. He gave him words of affirmation, whereas the other guy giving him words of condemnation. Then the family turned around and went to a restaurant to get some hot, some coffee and hot chocolate for the kids. And while they were sitting there, the father said, why don't we go back up there and get some coffee and take them some coffee, I love it. They did. And he said, when we got back up there, we said, we were just thinking about you guys and I know it's cold out there and we just wanted to give you some Coffee. He said the smile on those rangers face was more meaningful than any hike we would ever taken in the cavern.

Wow. Wow. And on top of that, the children got to see a display of choosing love.

Absolutely.

And that, that will be with them forever.

Yep. And see those opportunities abound in all of our lives. It can be a little thing, it can be a bigger thing, but it's there.

It's always there.

Yeah. If we have in our hearts, you know, I am God's agent for loving people and I want to be looking for those kind of opportunities. That's what I hope this book is going to do. It's going to challenge people, have hearts that are open and looking for opportunities to love other people.

That is so powerful, Dr. Chapman, to make a decision. I am God's agent and I'm looking for opportunities to show love. It's like we will go through the days like well, I didn't see anything. There's. We didn't look at the person next to us in line at Walmart. We didn't see the person who, who we were standing next to when we got, you know, registered for something with all of the opportunities everywhere to show love. But I think that that's what's going to ask you when you, it's almost like when you can't sum it up, like when you can't pull up that love. We all have love in us because we have the spirit of God in us. If you're born again Christian. However, sometimes when we have allowed our feelings to make choices for us and we have started, we have, we're mastered by our feelings instead of mastering our feelings and sometimes we'll get stuck in a rut, you know, just that selfish rut. How do we break out of it? How would you encourage someone who might be in that, that dark stew of emotions where this just like I just can't break out of it. It's so deep, I can't even think about loving others. What would you say to that person?

Well, I think a daily response to God bringing God into your situation is always helpful. I challenge people, if they're Christians, to have a daily sit down and listen time with God. By which I mean you sit down, you open your scriptures, you read a chapter, but before you read you say God, I'm going to read your word. I'm listening to you. I want to hear what you want me to hear. Today you have that sit down time with God. Like that and then you share with God after he's talking to you. You're talking back to him. You're talking about whatever you read and you share with him. You know my emotions today, Lord, you know, I'm discouraged, you know what's happening in my life, et cetera, et cetera. But help me to be a light in the world today. You see, it's not, it's not our emotions that's the light. It's the, it's the spirit of God within us. Romans chapter 5 and verse 5 says, the love of God is poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit. So we're simply saying, lord, let me be your instrument today in somebody's life. And you do that, God will answer that prayer. As you process your life, he will show you, oh, here's an opportunity that you could give a positive word or say something good to people.

And you know what I've noticed? When you do find yourself, if it's worry, depression, you know, you're just constantly, like, wrapped up in that emotion. I have found when you choose love, when you, when you, like, look out of yourself and your emotions and your mess and you choose to be a, a conduit of God's love in someone's life, that pulls you out, you cannot be loving and depressed at the same time. You can, you cannot be grateful and hold anxiety at the same time. Yeah, you just can't do it. So that may be the very tool that someone today needs to leverage to get out of the funk that they're in. Like, I just, I just need to be pulled out. That's why you're watching or listening to this right now is God's like, you know what? Be a conduit of my love and watch that emotional stew dissipate and go away. And that time with God, I have, I have a dock outside my house on the lake, and I have two chairs there, and I'll sit in one. And I just imagine, you know, Jesus in the other. And I'm just like, okay, what are, what are we going to do today? I just have my sit down time with Jesus. And I'll never forget Dr. Chapman, and you will understand this. You get me. One time I was sitting there and I was, I was kind of stressed, I was worried, a lot of things coming up. And I said, okay, what, what's the most important thing? What do we have to do today? And I clearly heard the voice of God say, let's just have fun. And that just struck me. It's like, wait, God wants me to enjoy life.

Yeah.

Like, and it wasn't like, on my to do list. Like, let's. Let's make sure we have that conversation. Let's make sure we tackle that project. Let's make sure we do that thing. And it was like, let's just have fun. And I. And I just felt this justice, compassion, and love wash over me that he really does want me to enjoy life. And his. His joy comes from my joy. And I think so many times we forget that when we get so hurried and we miss those opportunities and we think we have to get to a finish line we've missed. Missed out on being an expression of his love. And we. When we express love, that truly does help us enjoy life more.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think sometimes as Christians, we can get into ruts also, even with God. So we have our little time with God, and then we just walk off now and take charge of the rest of our lives. Whereas God wants to fellowship with us all day long. You know, he wants to start with him, but then, okay, Lord, now what's the next step? What are we gonna do? Wash dishes, vacuum floors, you know, take a walk or just go have fun. But, you know, talking to God all day long about life, because the Christian life is a relationship. It's not just a religion where we do this on Sunday and we do this year and we do that. No, no, no, no. It's a relationship with God. In relationships, you interface with each other on a regular basis. You know, and marriages that survive are those that people, they communicate with each other. They share life with each other. And with God, he wants to share life with us. I know it's hard to comprehend that the God of the universe would want to have us talk to him.

Yeah, yeah.

But he does, you know. Wow. Anyway, it's.

It's so beautiful when. When, you know, the Bible says to pray without ceasing. It says to pray continually. I. I take that as I always want to keep that communication line open. Like, I don't think God wants to be like, okay, I'll give you my 10 minutes in the morning, and let me run off. He. He. He wants to inhabit us. He wants us to do life with him. And that's where the joy comes from. And when we're open to that, I think it makes that choice of loving so much easier because that's where we abide. He said, abide in me. Let my word abide in you. Apart from me, you can do nothing. And so when we're trying to make that love choice in our own power, sometimes it works if we feel like it but then sometimes it won't. But when we abide in him, then it just makes it so much easier.

Yeah, he shows us opportunities that we would not have seen on our own. If we're really asking God, guide me as I go into the store, guide me, you know, you know, what, I'm going. Going in to buy something, but guide me. And, you know, we just. What God, he does what we ask him to do, and that is, he guides us. And the opportunities for love are not only abundant, but they're desperately needed in today's world.

They really are.

Just this morning, I was getting ready to drive out of my driveway, and the trash truck came to pick up city. City trash to pick up my. My trash can. And I just stopped my car in the driveway, got out of my car and walked toward the trash can. And when the guy came to pick up the trash can, I said, listen, I just want to tell you how much I appreciate what you do every day. And he said, well, somebody's got to do it. I said, well, it's an extremely important job in not only our city, but in every city. And I said, I know sometimes people, we just take you for granted, but I said, I just want you to know how much I appreciate that. I doubt that. That guy, he may never have had anybody tell him that before. You know, think about it. He's out there every day. He's out there every day doing something that life would be hard if people didn't pick up the trash, you know, so the opportunities are there. If we're tuned into God, we'll see opportunities in which we can give words of affirmation or some of the other love languages to the people that we encounter.

That's so true. And we also know that love is a command. Like, we can't get around that, because he said, all the law and the prophets rest on the command of love. So I think a lot of times, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, I believe that people are praying for something and believing for something and putting their faith out there for something. And they're not seeing it because they may not be abiding in love. They may be holding resentment, they may be holding unforgiveness. They may be letting emotions make decisions for them instead of choosing love. And I think when we just realize, just like you said, that we are an agent, that's going to be my new go to Dr. Chapman. I'm going to be waking up every morning, put on my makeup. I'm an agent today. I'M an agent. Show me who to show love to. When we have that mentality, that's where I. I believe the doors open more easily to what he wants to have displayed in our life as well.

Yeah. And I think the more we do that, the more we experience what life is all about. I mean, you know, we're here to accomplish the purposes of God. God loves everybody, and we're His. We're his agents on Earth. And so when we do that, it brings a deep sense of satisfaction that. To know that we were God's instrument to help that particular person in whatever way it was to express his love to them. And, you know, to me, that's the lifestyle of the Christian. That's. That's. That's what life is all about for us.

You know, you said it right there, like, I don't think we could end on a better note. That's what life is all about. You want to know what the grand mystery of life is? Choose love.

Yep.

That's beautiful. Dr. Chapman, it's been so wonderful to have you on. As always, you're such a blessing to my life and such a blessing to this world. Thank you for everything that you're doing.

Well, thank you, Hannah. It's always good to chat with you. Keep up the good work. You never know who's listening to your podcast.

That's right. That's right. I'm ready to go. Go out for those agent orders. I am taking authority. I love it so much. Thank you.

Very good.