Are Christians Allowed To Set Boundaries

Sometimes you love others, but you feel like you're just losing yourself in the process. I don't know if this ever happened to you in a relationship. Maybe someone in the family, maybe your partner, maybe a friend, but you feel like, where am I? Have I lost myself in this relationship? If that's the case, stop what you're doing. Unless you're driving, keep driving. But listen to what we're going to talk about right now. If you are watching, lean in a little closer. Because today we are going to be talking. Today we are going to be talking with Lisa Turkiers, who is the author of Good Boundaries and Goodbyes. And basically, that is exactly what she is talking about, is how we can establish boundaries that can nurture ourselves while still nurturing the relationship. Hang in there. I have a feeling you are going to be blessed like crazy.

Foreign.

Lisa, thank you so much for hanging out with us, girl.

Absolutely. What a fun afternoon. Things just to connect and talk about something that I think you're passionate about, just like me.

I am, I am. Because I love seeing people live in fullness. Like that's what Jesus came for, so that we could live an abundant life. Right. And abundant life means you don't lose yourself in the process.

That's right. That's why it was important to me with the subtitle of the book. You know, the title is Good Boundaries and Goodbyes. And the subtitle is Loving Others Without Losing the Best of who We Are. And so boundaries are not meant to shove other people away. They're so that we can hold ourselves together so the best of who we are can stay front and center and in our relationships.

Well, this is something that I really want to go deep into. And in the time that we have, we could talk about this for hours, I'm sure, but in 30 minutes, let's. Let's dig as deep as we can into this. I want to touch first and foremost on this idea that as Christians, and sometimes I think we're convinced as women that it's a relationship means how much of us can we give? You know, And I think that's to a point. I remember hearing someone say, being a Christian, does that mean you're a doormat? And I think so many times we had this idea, like, you know, well, we have to be long suffering and we just need to hold up under the struggle and we just need to always be giving. But if we are doing that, sometimes it is like an inverted sense of pride where now we become the source and we exhaust. Like you said, the Best of ourselves in the process. Do you see this come up a lot of times with people?

Yes. Because I think we know that we have limited capacity with certain areas of our life, but we forget it when it comes to relational and emotional capacity in our life. So let me give you an example of how I know you are already doing boundaries really well. Are you ready for this?

Yeah.

Okay. Do you have a bank account?

Yes.

Do you have a security passcode on your bank account?

Yes.

Why? Why would you put a security passcode on your bank account?

Because I don't want everyone having access to it unless they're putting money in. That's fine, but I don't want to give people access to what is mine.

Yes. And is that because you're selfish? Is that because you're unchristian? Is that because you're unkind?

That is good. No, it's because I'm wise.

Yes, it's because you're wise. And it's because you don't have unlimited funds in your bank account. And you want to be a faithful steward to be able to pay your bills and do what you are responsible to do with your finances. Right. So we know our limitations with our financial capacity, but we forget it when it comes to our relational capacity, our emotional capacity, sometimes our physical capacity, and sometimes we make decisions as if we are limitless. But then when the limitations slide slam into our attitude, our feelings of discouragement, maybe even feelings of despair, we wonder, like, what is wrong? And we start putting the worst of us in front of us instead of the best of us. Like, that's where we become impatient. That's where we become snippy. That's where we become annoyed with people. And you know, if we all sat down today, I don't think that you would say, like, I want to be frustrated, snippy, and annoyed with people.

Right?

No, you wouldn't say that. You would say, I want to be joyful, I want to be helpful, I want to be encouraging. And so if that's what you want, then you have to recognize and admit the capacity that you have in the important areas of your life so you don't hyper extend or bankrupt yourself down to the worst version of yourself. So we want to love others well without losing the best of who we are.

That is so beautiful. Now, I know it took hardship in your life to come to that place. And was that. Do you think that kind of did that all surface from COVID Like, I know that we've seen more and more of this kind of people coming to terms with things that they. Before they could distract themselves from. Like, I remember when all of a sudden, Covid, people are home, and they're like, wait, I'm living with you now. Like, all of a sudden you're with your kids. You're like, I raised you to be like this. Like, all of a sudden we have, like, these new things we're faced to. I mean, we're forced to face. It's like, I got to deal with this. Did you find that happen in your life versus happening in other people's lives?

I think to some extent, it happened to a lot of us. My counselor said it's like Covid was like draining a lake. And then we were forced to see what was really there.

Wow.

So, you know, what busyness had been covering up or what distraction had been covering up. You know, suddenly when things came to a screeching halt, then we were forced to see things that maybe we just glanced past before. And what we don't work out, we eventually act out. And so I think, to some extent, a lot of us saw a dramatic increase in relational tensions, which really should give us an awareness that where there's chaos, there's lack of boundaries. And so I became very passionate about studying boundaries because, quite honestly, I stunk at them. I was a classic people pleaser, and I'm a peacemaker at heart. Like, I. I just want everyone to be happy. I want there to be peace around me. And so I would often say, you know, I am. I am a people pleaser because I want to keep other people happy. But as I really did some serious self reflection and some serious therapy around this, I discovered it's not. I'm not people pleasing just because I want to keep other people happy. I'm trying to keep other people happy so that they won't take from me something that they're giving to me that I feel I would not be okay if they stopped giving that to me. So as long as I keep them in a happy place.

Wow. Okay, we got to dig into this. You can't drop a bomb like that and just traipse along. No, we got to go deeper into this. So let's. Let's really clearly work that out. Right, because if we don't work it out, we're going to act it out. That's powerful. But there are people doing this right now who are listening or watching, and they're like, wait a minute. I think she just stepped on my toes because we're already receiving from someone. Something like, give me a scenario so people could, like, paint a picture for us so we can know if this is where we find ourselves or not, if we really suck at boundaries or if we're able to establish them and why we would not do that. Like, go ahead and paint a picture for us of what that looks like.

Okay, well, let's think about a dating relationship. Let's say that someone's in a dating relationship and they see red flags and they know that there's some unhealthy patterns, not just mistakes. You know, we all make mistakes, but when mistakes start to become into habitual patterns, then that's where we start dancing with dysfunction. And so we have some concerns about this relationship. However, the comfort that it gives the person dating them. Like, if I'm dating them, then I like the comfort of not being alone. I like the comfort of having someone to text at night. I like the comfort of being able to always have a plus one, you know?

Yeah.

So I would rather hang on to that relationship because that person is giving me something that I want rather than take the risk of drawing healthy boundaries. So it's easier for me to ignore the dysfunctions and dance with the dysfunctions than to call a red flag what it is before it becomes a full on fire.

Wow. Well, it's almost, Lisa. Like, we don't want to do the work on ourselves, so we'd rather choose companionship even if it's painful.

Yeah. You know, one exercise my counselor had me do because I went through a. A really heartbreaking eight years that ended up in the death of my marriage, which is what I call divorce. It's really the death of a marriage. And, you know, I went through this long season, like two years of just sitting in silence and just being so sad that the loneliness was painful. It was so painful.

Yeah.

And so I remember talking to my counselor about this, and my counselor said, lisa, a sign of help is that you're able to sit with yourself in the quiet. And I didn't like that answer at all.

No. No. And a lot of people who are watching and listening don't like that. I don't want that.

Yes.

Why do we resist that, though? Why did you resist that?

Well, because the quiet is almost like an invitation for some needed self reflection that maybe is painful or maybe we don't know what to do with it. But also, loneliness is real. You know, I mean, we live in a very couple society. And so when I was no longer a couple, there became these weird dynamics. Like we went on vacation and everybody took a picture with their Significant other. And then I had to decide, do I take a picture with myself or just do I take a picture of the background? But I wanted to document that I was there. And so one day it just occurred to me, yes, I take a picture by myself, because that's where I'm at right now. And I'm not going to miss out out because I have a companion. I. Because I don't have a companion. Like, I am a whole person myself. And it's completely fine for me to ask someone to snap a picture and for me to stand in front of this beautiful background. But, you see, I don't think that I would have processed that and gotten to a better place if I wouldn't have sat in the silence and asked God just to speak to me about the loneliness and the tension and. And what I needed to work on. And. And there were things I needed to work on. I needed to work on myself. And quiet can mean loneliness, but it can also mean a beautiful opportunity for growth. And it's our choice what we fill that space of quiet with.

That is so true. You know, there's a law of polarity which states with as much capacity as there is toward the negative, there is an equal capacity for the positive. So if you have this law of polarity, then you can look at being alone as loneliness or this divine work that we get to do, Right? And so I really think we can't ever tap in to our true strength and power outside of ourselves. Like, we need to face ourselves first. I think one of the worst lines ever is that. Remember that old Jerry Maguire movie? Like, you complete me. I'm like, I have told my kids from the beginning. I'm like, no one can complete you. You have to be complete. Because in order to enter into a relationship, you have to be two wholes, not two halves making a whole, two holes multiplying. And I think this is what, like, this idea of boundaries. I think a lot of people are afraid to put them up because, number one, they could look selfish, and number two, they might be afra of the potential isolation and the work that that entails. I mean, what would you recommend, like, a person who's like, you know what, Lisa? I am sensing that I'm losing the best of myself in this relationship, but I'm too scared to change anything. What would you say to that person?

I would say, to identify what you're afraid of. And if you're afraid of the fact that drawing a healthy boundary would make this other person reject you, walk away from you, or, you know, abandon you, then chances are you are already suspicious that that person could have the propensity to reject you, walk away from you, and abandon you. And so your choice at that point is either draw a healthy boundary, which is the only fighting chance for that relationship to become sustainable, or you're going to have to get as unhealthy as the dysfunction in that relationship in order to have equilibrium. All, all relationships require some sort of equilibrium. And so health bonds with health, unhealth bonds with unhealth. Yeah, you have a situation where one person is getting healthy and the other person is refusing, then there's going to be an imbalance there that is either going to require you to come down or them to come up or a separation in that which a separation doesn't mean you walk away. It means you start establishing healthy boundaries so that you don't diminish the best of who you are.

So what does that look like? Like if, if someone were to say, okay, I want to start establishing boundaries, I feel like I am losing a bit of myself, I might be, you know, helping and, you know, helping this partner or this friend or this child in a way that is negatively affecting them and me. When they say I want to establish boundaries, what does that really look like? Like if someone were to do this today.

Okay, I want you to think of two really important words, access and responsibility. Now, we already hinted at it when we did the financial.

Right.

Assessing our financial capacity. So when I hear the word boundaries and I watch people's reactions, sometimes I see that people are resistant because they've tried to put a boundary on another person. In other words, they've tried to control another person or tried to change another person. And when it didn't work, they decided boundaries don't work for them. Or I. They hear the word boundaries and they wince because somebody has put a boundary on them and that was a form of punishment or manipulation. And so they don't like the feeling that's created. So I want you to take the word boundary and set it aside and just think of the two words. Access, responsibility. When you are giving someone level 10 access, but they are only willing or capable of Level 3 responsibility, the distance between those is going to cause chaos. And where there's chaos, there's a lack of a boundary. You see, if you give someone level 10 access, you want them to bring level 10 responsibility. Right. But if they're only willing or capable of bringing level three responsibility, you can have a conversation with them and ask them to be more responsible with the access that you're giving them. But you can't put a boundary on them to force them to do what needs to be done. Instead, you can put a boundary on yourself and, and decide if they're only willing or capable of level three responsibility, then it's my job, it's my responsibility to then reduce the access down to the level of demonstrated responsibility. And I think that's a good way to look at this. So, for example, if you know, when you were dating, then you could give some physical access, but because you didn't have the covenant of marriage, you couldn't. You know, if you gave complete physical access, then you ran the risk of that other person not being responsible with that kind of accident.

Right?

But part of the reason that we have weddings and vows and covenants, commitments and all of this is because it that kind of level of physical intimacy access that you grant in a marriage that requires the same level of responsibility. So we know this with our finances, we know this with physical intimacy, but we forget it with our emotional capacity, our relational capacity. So this is a way for us to start assessing our capacity and for us to start being honest about what we do have to give, what we don't have to give, what is acceptable and what is not acceptable.

And when it comes down to it, as much as we try, we can't control other people, right? Like someone, someone needs to hear that right now. Stop trying to control the other person. And every time we argue with reality, we lose 100% of the time. So it's, it's lovely to have great expectations, but often expectations lead to disappointments. So what if we could just have those expectations over ourselves now that we can manage?

Right.

I just really like that idea of, like, boundaries are not for the other person, they're for you.

But, and remember, you know, when we have expectations of another person, often that can be simmering resentments in disguise. I like to change that to, I have needs, I have desires, but I need to take time to write out what I need, what I desire. So it stops being this nebulous hope in my heart and rather something specific I can work toward and if necessary, put some boundaries on myself so that my needs and desires are clearly communicated and that other person has the opportunity to be responsible with those and to respond. Either they're willing to meet these needs and desires or they're not. But at least there's communication happening. I'm convinced more relationships die not because we attempted to have hard conversations, but because we refuse to have the hard conversations And I think that's why more relationships die, because people just get to this place where they say, I can't take it anymore. And when they reach that place of I can't take it anymore, and they jump to the extreme of they were with this person and now they are completely away from this person and boundaries. Give us an opportunity to walk in the messy middle and say, I want to give every fighting chance for this relationship to succeed. So it's my responsibility to communicate what I need, what I desire, and the responsibilities that are required for me to continue to give that level of access to that person.

That is so beautiful how just I think it really empowers a person to be able to make intentional choices without holding an idea of shame or condemnation. First of all, because unfortunately, I see a lot of people that are in relationships that are extraordinarily unhealthy, but they think, well, I made a commitment. Like, I want to pick your brain on this. I made a commitment to this marriage. Like, I made a covenant. I can't walk away from it because that would be sinful and I would be breaking a covenant. However, they're breaking this covenant with themselves every day in a relationship that is destructive. Like, what. What would you say to that person who's like, I, I need to walk away, but I can't?

Well, I want to say, I understand and I want to be super careful. There's a big difference between a difficult relationship, which all relationships have an element of difficulty. Right. Bringing two humans together that both have, you know, sin and mistakes and all of that. So. But there's a big difference between difficulties in a relationship and a destructive relationship.

Right? Right.

And if you sense that you are in a destructive relationship that lacks safety, that lacks trust, you know, trust is the oxygen of human relationships, and that lacks safety, then you need to get otherwise people around you and start taking steps and not leaps, you know, because we don't want to encourage people to suddenly start ghosting their parents, you know, abandoning their friends and divorcing their spouses. You know, we want to take some baby steps to make sure that we're safe and to reestablish trust and to regain a sense of security. But at some point, we also need those wise people to help us discern if that person is being utterly irresponsible and bringing zero responsibility to this relationship, then we may want to consider some options to reduce the access down to zero. And it is painful and it is hard and it never should be taken light. But the Bible does make provision for sometimes goodbyes are necessary and it's not always because one person is bad and the other person is good. I mean, I talk about in the Bible study of good boundaries and goodbyes that Paul and Barnabas had a goodbye, they had a separation. They were both good people, passionate about serving the Lord, but they had a sharp disagreement about this cousin of Barnabas and, and Barnabas wanted him to go on the next missionary journey and Paul did not because he'd had a bad experience. And so there became this division, which means two different visions going in opposite directions. And eventually Paul and Barnabas said goodbye. But they kept their hearts soft enough to where many years later, though Paul and Barnabas didn't reconcile, the cousin of Barnabas did reconcile with Paul. And Paul actually expresses deep affection for him, which tells me that there was some good in the goodbye. And the Bible even makes it clear that when this goodbye happened, it actually served repel the gospel even further. So not all goodbyes are really terrible. Some are, some are awful.

Yeah.

But I posed this question in the book, how can we have a little bit more good in some of our goodbyes? The original phraseology of goodbye was God be with ye. And from that it was shortened to, you know, an acronym. And from that we got Goodbye, God be with ye. And I just would like a little more God be with ye in the relationships that become unsustainable. And, and again, none of this should be taken lightly. All of it should be done in the context of getting wise counsel around you.

That is so good. I didn't know that. That is fascinating. God be with you. We need a little more God be with you. I love that. And another thing that I want to touch on that I think is very valuable is this idea that even in a relationship that's very healthy, very sustainable, we are still required to do the work on ourselves. Like another person can never be the source for us when God is the source. Like another person can never be the source. And so when you're constantly working on yourself, that can actually be some of the healthiest things you could do for a relationship, no matter what who that relationship is with. And so I want to encourage people like make sure, first of all, grab this book, Good Boundaries and Goodbyes. Whether you're in a tumultuous relationship or not, this is going to be such a blessing for you in order to navigate your own personal growth. But also, Lisa, something I think you touched beautifully on is that doing, being with, alone with yourself is one of the healthiest places to be Being able to face the darkest, deepest parts of yourself and being open and willing and to let God do the work in you. I don't know about you, but I just think that helps you bring the best to this world and to all the relationships you're in.

I agree. You know, we'll always be desperate to get from other people what we fear we will not get from God.

Wow. I'm sorry. You can't just drop a bomb like that and walk away. We are always desperate to get from other people what we feel we can't get from God.

Yeah. What we fear we will never get from God. And so I think in that quietness of, of self reflection and working on ourselves, we need to ask ourselves, what have I been desperate to get from somebody else that I really need to turn my attention to and getting that from God so that I can live from a place of love, not live desperate for scraps of love from other people? And, you know, that was really good work that I had to do.

And you did it.

I agree. And thank you so much for coming, allowing me to come on the podcast today and just share a little bit of what I've learned. Because honestly, when I see see an opportunity for God to take the hurt and heartbreak that I've had in my life and have some way to use it for good to help other people, it actually takes me another step further in my healing. So thank you for being part of my journey as well.

What a great. Just, just not only insight, but example. And I want to thank you for everything you've done in your life and everything that you're allowing God to pour through you into the lives of other people. Thank you so much, Lisa, for this. And I know that when we are able to set those boundaries and be able to do the self work, we're going to be blessed like crazy.