Lasting Ever: The Secret to a Lasting Marriage with special guests Rebecca St. James & Cubbie Fink

So sometimes you see a couple and they just glow, you know? You know, they've got something. There's a secret there. And I'm so excited, because I think what you're going to get from today's show is not just going to help you, but it's going to help your marriage go to the next level. So I'm going to be talking with Kabby Fink and Rebecca St. James. They have a book called Lasting Ever, and if you want that in your marriage, honey, you better stick around. All right, so, Kavi and Rebecca, thank you so much for hanging out with me today. Thank you for having us.

Great to chat with you.

Oh, my goodness. Okay, so first of all, the book Lasting Ever. Super excited about this, and I am. My husband and I are always trying to help people have the best marriage. We've been married about 33 years, and.

It'S just, wow, you look too young to have been married for 33 years. That's okay.

Well, Rebecca, you're my new b.

You really do, girl. You're amazing. Wow.

We got married when I was.

Yeah.

But it's just. We have so enjoyed just. It's just been such a fabulous marriage and so much fun, and so. And that God's design, like, just multiplies your power and your authority. So I love this book, and I love what you're doing for people and how you're ministering to them and sharing your story. Like, this is, like, open, you know, throw back the curtains. I'm showing you everything. So why did you decide to do this? Was this, like, you were just sitting around one day, you're like, hey, you want to write a book about marriage? All right, sure. Let's do it. Like, where did this come about?

Honestly, it's something that we had kind of toyed with the idea of for. I don't know. I mean, it's come up a few times in our marriage, but we always assumed if we ever wrote a book, it'd probably be, you know, a little further down the track when we're a little older and wiser.

We're 13 years in right now. 14 next year.

Yeah.

But the way it ended up coming about. So the pretty much the lead producer on Unsung Hero, who became a very good friend of ours through that process of working on the film, he approached us and really just said, hey, listen, you guys have a story that I think would encourage people, so we just.

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He approached us and really just said, hey, listen, you guys have a story that I think would encourage people. And it kind of got us thinking, got the wheels turning a little bit. And I really just planted a seed that the Lord was able to use to kind of mature into us. Feeling prompted to step into the process of writing a book, which was quite the journey. I mean, it's rare that you're forced to reflect on your life to the degree that we had to write this book, but the beauty of it, and it's. And it's something that since writing it, I've. I've tried to encourage as many people as I can, but just the kind of forced process of pausing and looking back is so powerful because I think it's. It's very easy to miss or not see the hand of God in your life when you're in the midst of situations, especially challenging, challenging ones. But when you're able to get on the other side of it, take a step back, kind of look at it with new perspective, it's. It's pretty remarkable how beautifully you can see God just involved in every detail on a very intricate level. So we were just able to see that over and over and over. Just looking at our lives, seeing ways that he was preparing us for each other in ways that we weren't even. Weren't aware of, and then points of connection that we weren't aware of. So it was just a very beautiful process.

And I think we.

We also know that people are, in a time, I think not, not, not all people, but there's a lot of people that are in a discouraged place about family life or marriage or. And are kind of questioning the value of each of those. And I think what we wanted to say in this book was you can stick it out, you can last even through the highs and the lows of life. And we've seen God do so much in the winter seasons and in the spring. Seasons and he is good and he is faithful and he can bring you through the challenges. So it's really to be a book of hope.

Yeah, totally. And I think you're right. I think culturally where we live in a very instant gratification.

100 feelings based too.

Yes, very feeling it.

Then I'm out.

Right, right. Like we've fallen out of love. No, no, no, you don't fall out of love. You fall out of discipline, you fall out of skill, you fall out intimacy with God. Like you fall out of those things.

Right.

But you don't fall out of love. So I'm just wondering, in, in today's culture, why do you think we get so, so transient about our relationships? Why do you think it's just like on again, off again? As soon as the feelings happen, we're like, well maybe this wasn't meant to last. What do you think has caused that?

I mean I, I personally think it's a few things. I'd be very interested to hear what, what you say too cub. But I think part of the factor, not that we want to blame social media for everything or the right super connected.

Ah, sure, we.

But I do think that there's something to the comparison game and the competitiveness with which we can kind of almost view the world of like, well, their marriage looks better and their lifestyle looks better and they're having more fun and I'm missing out and I must have married the wrong person. Or maybe this God thing's not working for me because I'm just not feeling it and they seem to have a spiritual life. That's awesome. And so maybe just I wasn't built for, for, for this marriage or for this relationship with God. And so I think it comes back to that feelings based thing. Whereas if we're actually building our life on commitment and biblical truth and the power of God to help us stick it out in the hard times, then it's a kind of a different story. We're not basing out everything on feelings anymore at that point.

Right, right, right. So true. I, I want to find out what.

Yeah, Cubby, I, I, yeah, I mean we live, live in such a unique time in history where we are connected to more, connected to more people and know more than we ever have. And, and I think because of just, I, I think there's a point where we just get overwhelmed with the opportunity and you're constantly second guessing because there's so many options. Whereas you know, 100 years ago you grew up in a very small town with maybe three or four girls that you had the potential of courting and eventually marrying. Your dad was a farmer, so you became a farmer. But suddenly any job is at your fingertips. Because we can work remote, we can do absolutely anything. There's so many potential, you know, options for relationships and jobs and everything else. I think there's just an overwhelming nature of. Of. Of just the infinite possibility that we're constantly second guessing. And until you make the decision to root yourself in a relationship or ro. In a place or a job or whatever it might be. And really that, I think a lot of times is tied to calling as believers. We sense a calling towards rooting ourselves in certain places. And without that, I think it's only natural that the status quo would be just constantly be looking for the next thing. Because we're looking to things to make us happy as opposed to being rooted.

Yes. Like, you're always scanning. And the Bible says to set our mind and keep it set on things that are above and not believe below, like the higher things. And I think that's what you're talking about, because when our mind is always. When our brain's always scanning the environment and social media. Right, Rebecca? Yeah. Yes. Scroll. And all the things that are possible for me. And then you look around your life like, well, I'm not satisfied now. And so we didn't set our mind and keep it set. Like a commitment in marriage is setting your mind. Like, we're in this together, we're partnered together in life, but we don't. We. We forget that the Bible says and keep it set. Like, keep going back to that. I love that because it's higher. It's not. It's not below. Like, everything that's natural came out of what's supernatural. So if our marriage is supernatural, if it's a spiritual marriage, then if we set our mind there, then it will show up in the natural realm, in the physical realm. But I think that's what, you know, when you're talking about lasting ever, it's like, no, no. This commitment was made at a higher level so that when all the distractions come in at the lower level, we're.

Still anchored in here 100%. Thank you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I just love that. I love that so much, your commitment and how you share very openly about the winters and the springs, about the mountains and the valleys, like, share a little bit about that. Because I think sometimes, like, when people look at mine and Blair's marriages. Marriage. We've only had one. Or you, you know, you guys, they're like, oh, well, it's always mountaintop. Like it's always springtime. Wouldn't it be nice if our marriage was like that? But hello, like, let's get real, like share some of that. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, we talk, you know, a lot about our, our winter season in the book. And it was a season for me of miscarriage and secondary infertility and just dreams that were just looking to be shot through. And then for Cubby, a unjust job loss, I would say, and kind of betrayal of friends that he considered family. And so. And I was dealing with burnout from music, still love Jesus, but was just really burnt out. So I was in counseling for that. I mean, it was just hard thing after hard thing. It's probably five different things, at least that we were dealing with in that season, wave after wave. And it was just this. Lord, we trust that your, your heart is good or help us to. In this trust that you can redeem even these kind of things. And God brought us into a really radical spring. Like I, I had this encounter with the Holy Spirit during worship. I knew I had changed. I knew my, my heart had come into spring even though nothing at that point circumstantially had. And then immediately after that, I fell pregnant. And we have a second daughter and, and another son now. Things have changed for him work wise too. Like just, he's lifted us out of it circumstantially. But it became, it began with a spring that came to our hearts, that the Holy Spirit just did a lifting at the same time for both of us.

Wow. Wow, that is so powerful. I want to touch on that because I think a lot of times when we're in those winters and when we're in those valleys, we're like, God, just show me your faithfulness and show me your love in this way. Like, give me, give me the job back or make sure you know, I want to be pregnant or show it to me in this way. But just like you said, it had to happen in your heart first. And that's why, like, we're not supposed to be conformed to the pattern of this world where it's like, oh, I pray for this thing and it happens. So God is good. We're supposed to be transformed by the renewing of our mind. And that happens more like God, no matter what, you're good.

Hundred percent.

Go ahead.

I love that you're speaking that to that because I've felt convicted lately, especially if I share this, like publicly from the stage to literally speak that out loud, that God would have been good even if we didn't have a second daughter. He would have been good even if we didn't have a son. You know, even if things didn't change on. On that surface human level like we wanted him to, he still would have been good and faithful because he's God with us. Like, he, He. He. He shows up in our hearts with his comfort, and that's where the goodness begins. And so, yes, I trusted that that was an. Was a true spring because it was an internal. It wasn't just this external. Oh, yeah, well, it's tangible now. Like, it was a deeper work that had to happen first.

Like, we don't have to see the groundhog come out. Like, it's like, okay, it's good because I know God, and I know so many times people are like, well, God, you know, I want you to change my marriage. I want you to change my partner, whatever that looks like. Fill in the blank as evidence that I can trust you, God. But when you're talking about getting to the heart of the issue and how amazing is it that through your covenant that God speaks to both of you at the same time?

I love that about that.

Yes, he is so good, and because he wants both of you to honor that marriage covenant and to walk into the spring together. But if, but if you think that the spring shows that God is good, then we're getting it backwards, you know, And I think people are struggling in their marriage right now. And I want anyone who's tuning into this video or listening to this podcast, if you're waiting on God to change your partner so you can have a good marriage, you may be getting it backwards. Trust that God loves you and he's good. So you were going to say something?

Yeah, I think it's. I mean, it really is kind of a conversation of contentment. And it's. It's a verse that I often go back to, probably a life verse for me. In Philippians, when Paul says, I found a way to be content in all things, I think it's very easy to look like you're saying to the thing to make us happy. If this person would just change, if I could just get this job, if I could just X, Y, or Z, then I'll be happy. But Paul is saying, no, there's a way to be content in the here and now, regardless of your circumstances, regardless of what you have or what you don't have, being rooted in your identity in Christ and finding that contentment. And contentment isn't necessarily happiness. It's, I think there's much more of a rooted sense of peace and security and just a groundedness and contentment that outweighs happiness. I think it's, it's, it's better than happiness because it's, it's, it's got more weight than just a fleeting feeling of being happy. So finding that way to find contentment in all things, I think is what we're really called to because then we're not looking to the next thing to make us happy. We're able to find that in the here and now and then. So if you can't be content, if you can't be content unmarried, you're never going to be content married. If you can't be content without the job, you're not going to be content with the job. So I think it's one of the strongest calls, calls from Paul, at least it's been the most profound for me just to constantly remind myself just to find that place of contentment in this. I mean, even in the challenging seasons. Because I know God is working, I know God is working through the hard parts and that's why we chose to share those parts of our story. It'd be easy just to make it the social media version of the book and show all the good, but I think it's the points of pain that people are able to connect with. And I think that's what social media is so depressing because it's all we're seeing is the good. It's like, well, why don't I have that good? But when you share the pain, that's where you know you're able to connect with people. Because we all share pain and we all do pain that that grows us.

That's so good. And I love that the verse you're talking about like finding being content in all things, it's one of those things we kind of want to scratch out of the Bible.

Yeah.

You know, it's like, but really God like all things, but that's the beauty of it is understanding that first we, we're, we are spirit being and then we have a soul and we live in a body. But going back to our original design is nothing can pull us out of that place where we're in him. And that's why he's the all sufficient one. Like everything is sufficient in Him. And so I want to encourage someone like, if you're listening to this and you're like, I've been praying for my spouse to change. I've been praying for us to be debt free. I've been praying for this, and I'm not seeing it, and I'm just losing hope. What would you say to that person right now who has been struggling?

I mean, the thing that comes to mind for me just is. Is God's. So for you. And I write in the book about living in God's smile. Like, I just. I love this idea of just living from his smile. And that. That. That's not a Rebecca quote. Yeah, but I. I read that, and it was one of the greats that came up with that. But living from his smile, like, what does that look like? To feel the smile of God on us and his joy in us. Like. Like we delight in our own children. Like, we just. And we're not delighting in them because they're perfect. You know, they're not perfect. They're sinful little human beings. But when we see I have seven.

Of them, I can attest to that.

Wow. Yes. Yeah. You see the simpleness pretty quickly. You know, even babies. Amazing.

Just blaring.

It's just there. But we delight in them and we enjoy children. And there's so much love, overwhelmingly, overwhelming love for them. And I just. I know. I feel like in this season of my life, God is calling me into that place of looking for his eyes of love. Like, just delighting in his delight of me and that. That can sustain actually when. When we're living from his smile. So I. I just would encourage people to ask God. Ask God to reveal his face, his eyes of love towards you. And. And I really would think that that that will sustain you for your. For the spring that he wants to bring here to your heart.

That is so beautiful. I love that. To look. To look for his smile. And that's so funny that you said that, because literally the other day, like, something so disappointing happened. It was almost. It was almost like laughable. It was so disappointing. My husband, I were just like, what is happening? We're laughing about that and thinking about it rather than immediately, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, oh, my goodness. It was one of those moments where this should be recorded in a movie. It's so disappointing. And. And then it was in my time with God the next morning. I was like, God, I can feel. Feel you laughing about that. Like I could. Because he knows that all things. Like, all things have to work together for good. Because I love him and I'm called according to his purpose. Just like everyone who's listening, everyone who's watching right now. So if God is still God, and if his word is still true, then he's working it all out together. The mountains and the valleys and the winters and the swings. He working it all out. So how did you get, like, when you were in those winters, how. And it's so easy to lose hope and to be like, this isn't working out. And then guess what? Sure enough, that will happen because we start to put all the. It's like praying for things we don't want to happen as we worry about and then get hopeless. How did you maintain hope as a couple in those places when you're not necessarily on the same level? Like, one is dipping and another is dipping, you know, how did you stay consistent?

Yeah, I mean, it was. It was challenged, to be honest. It was a. It was a heavy season, like Rebecca alluded to. I mean, just blow after blow. And I think we were kind of both just brought to a pretty low point, to the point where we both felt depleted.

Yeah.

So depleted.

Discouraged. Like, how do we even encourage each other?

Yeah, like, how do you even pick each other up when it's like, I. I'm done?

Because neither one of us was the strong one. And. And I think what we both were ultimately kind of forced to do was just to rely on. On the power of the Holy Spirit to carry us through. And. And kind of the thing I kept going back to because the winter season for me was. Was marked by some. Something unique, and that was silence. Because every other season of my life, every other turning point in my life, God was exponentially clear on what I was meant to do, where I was to go, how I was to do it. And suddenly I found myself thrown into probably the biggest turning point of my life and also a family to look after. And I was desperately calling out to God for direction, and I was met with just complete and utter silence. So that was probably the challenge. I mean, on top of all the external factors, on an internal level and spiritual journey level, that was probably the most challenging part for me. And ultimately I had to make the decision because when you're faced with things like that, when you're faced with trials, you have the decision to either stand on your faith or discard your faith. And having your faith being rooted on the truth of the word of God, you make the decision to continue to trust those words. And knowing that the Scripture says that his plans for us are for good. And in those moments of questioning and trial, it's easy for the enemy to get in there and try and cause doubt, trying to convince you that his plans for you are not for good, but continually coming back to the truth of Scripture, putting one foot in front of the other and just trying to rely on the strength of the Holy Spirit and, and honestly kind of force yourself out of. Of a place of.

Independence.

Independence. And, and, and it's, it's easy to kind of just retreat to your corner. And especially in a marriage when you're both facing challenging things, but kind of breaking that boundary, stepping out of the corner and finding moments to pursue her heart. She talks about. Rebecca talks about curiosity being the, the sixth love language, which I think is a beautiful thing because it's. There's a lot that I could assume about her. I'm very perceptive. I'm pretty aware of what's going on in her. And I could just assume, okay, she's feeling this way, but actually to break that wall, ask the question, pursue her heart. How are you feeling? What's going on internally? How can I help you? Being curious about what's going on in her.

It's powerful.

Is powerful because it creates connectivity and unity and the vulnerability of connecting in. In those hardest of times.

Wow. Wow. I, I always talk about, as a coach, how we can either operate in curiosity or criticism. And, you know, when we operate in criticism, we see everything wrong in us. We see everything wrong in our partner. Excuse me. We see everything wrong in God. And criticism shuts all the doors of opportunity off. So we become isolated, just like you said, Gabby. Just. We become like that solemn, isolated place. But curiosity now opens doors. You know, I wonder what could be possible here. Share how this is affecting you. Let me share how this is affecting me. Like, that's, that's interesting that I just kind of want to sulk off and play a silent game. What's going on? So that curiosity is such a. A marriage enhancer.

Yes.

You know, it really is such a powerful attribute to add to your marriage. Just this, and I call it insane curiosity about yourself. Like, why would. Why did I do that? Why did I snap? Or why did I run off and hide or whatever the situation is. And then insane curiosity about your partner as well. I remember this one time, like, we're so stressed out. It was like, I mean, you, you know, as you're building a business and a platform and a ministry, it's like the enemy's going to come at you every which way. And there's this one time when we're both just like laying in bed, like 2:30 in the morning. It's like, okay, you want to just get up and watch A movie. Because we are not gonna be sleeping like now.

We might as well embrace that with a movie.

With a movie, we may as well do that because. But it's like, I'm in it with you.

Yeah.

So if you're going to hold this. So Kabi, your, your innate response is, let me pull away. Right? And so of course, because she's curious about you, she's like, you know what? It's, it's okay, your freedom to do that because I love you, but can I be in the space with you? And then of course, you know that she's very different. So you get curious about that. But I do think, just like you said, that one quality is such a beautiful thing to add to your marriage. Instead of the criticism of like, oh, it's not working. Maybe it is, and maybe you're becoming the next version of yourself to make your marriage even better.

Love that.

So I just love the example that you set. What would you say to someone who, you know, just, I know I have to wrap this up, but who might be tuning in right now and you can't help but think, well, your marriage must be better than mine, right? I mean, it's just something just because like, you talked about, you know, how people are scrolling all the time, so must be thinking, well, you must have something I don't have. You have someone who cares. You're on the same page. What would you say to that person to build their hope up in this place that God's working it all out?

The first thing that just comes to mind is just that God's going to be the only truly, truly loving, truly for you, truly unselfish, truly faithful person in your life. Because people like, we're all going to let each other down. I'm going to let Cubby down. And I do, you know, I don't respond perfectly. You know, in times, in conflict or I'm, I'm, I'm in my head because I'm in a self protective mode or I'm upset about something, you know, I'm going to let him down, he's going to let me down. But if we're, if we're looking to God for that kind of perfection that we naturally want to see in our spouse, then we can kind of settle down and go, okay, well, at least he, he's got me like, I, and just kind of breathe that internal sigh of relief. I'm, I'm good. I'm safe because I'm resting in my absolutely good, perfect, faithful God. And then I can kind of more freely offer grace to him if I'm settled in that. But if I'm constantly like, you've got to be there for me and, and grabbing, grabbing, grabbing. It creates this like frantic, unsettled, unloving kind of dynamic. And so I just would encourage somebody listening because we've been there. We. You are. I think we have come out of our winter season into a spring, but it's not perfect. I mean, we're still, you know, learning. We're nearly 14 years into marriage, but we're learning so much and we struggle through stuff that we have to learn things the hard way and then get back on the communication train of like opening up vulnerably, all of that. So we, we get it. You're not alone and you're not this, you know, person that's just, you know, failing, failing. We're failing too. We're like, there's a sense of community and going. We all understand not handling relational dynamics perfectly, but God is going to be the perfect one and rest in that. Breathe that internal sigh of relief. Yeah.

That's so beautiful. Because a deficient person cannot pull from another deficient person. Yeah, right. And that's why he is El Shaddai. He is our all sufficient one so that we can rest in that place. And sometimes, I know this sounds like so like small and trying to maybe ineffective, but sometimes it's that place where like, I'm okay.

Yes.

I don't, I don't need you to be anyone that you can't be right now. I'm okay. And finding that place where we're grounded and rooted in God and then that's where we become a sufficient person because that like it, like two halves don't make a hole in marriage.

And there's more resilience. What I hear you is this, is this kind of settled, peaceful resilience and we just have more to offer in that, in that marriage. Then there's less of the neediness.

Let. Oh, so good. Less of the neediness. I love it. Because that's what really erodes the marriage is I need you to be xyz. I need this from you in order.

I'm not okay if you're not.

Yeah, I'm okay if you're not. I love you enough. And sometimes in coaching marriages I'm like, can you love your spouse enough to just give them freedom to be who they have to be right now?

Yeah. Yeah.

Like that's what love isn't demanding.

Uh huh. Yeah. Yeah.

You were going to say something. I'M sorry.

Yeah. Well, no, no. Sometimes I think we can say I need, need, need this from you and I'm not okay if you're not. If we're. If we're not okay, or I'm. If you're not okay and you're not giving me what I need, then I'm not okay. But I think what we're talking about right now in this last five minutes is there's a resilience that God can offer us. There's a peace and a sense of, like, fullness of hope that can be found in him. This is this piece that passes all we can be okay, like deeply okay and let our spouse kind of go through a process and. And reach out and curiosity still be there, but not be grabbing, grabbing. And I think that's the place that we want to be able to offer each other in marriage.

I love it. So powerful. Well, I want to thank both of you just for your transparency, your openness and sharing your story with the world so that they can find hope. You know, no matter what season of life it is, they can find hope that what God brought together, he wants to keep together. So thank you so much. And guys who are watching, listening, lasting ever. Okay? Make sure you and they can just basically get this everywhere. Right. Okay, wonderful. Well, thank you so much, guys. Remember, God is your all sufficient source. Go to him, he's gonna make everything better and you're going to be blessed like crazy.