Andrew and Jesse discuss why people struggle to stick with exercise, then explore how AI music tools like Suno trigger real emotions. They cover Suno's $250 million market outlook, AI memory and personalization, and the privacy tradeoffs of convenience.
Chapters
Jesse, I got something personal for you. What I did this morning and then what happened in my head. So I did this post on LinkedIn about how I'm doing my pushups, posted it on X also. I really love all the freaking feedback that comes in. Frankly, I don't love writing nearly as much as I love responding to all the people on feedback. And a lot of them would give me like all kinds of advice. And I said, I get it. I'd love to like weightlifting, but I can't freaking stand it. I don't even really love doing pushups. I love running. Pushups just blah, but I'm doing it because I want my chest to look good. Anyway, after saying it a few times, I realized, wait, there's got to be a way. And then it occurred to me, there's a guy who has a ranch right down the road from us who has got a gym in his ranch. I just didn't know how to find him, but I happened to, as I was driving past him one day, see him. I honked my horn like a maniac, got him to come out of his gate. Oh my God. Yes. He gave me the same look you did, like, what the hell? But he came out. I got information from him and he's pretty strict. He wanted me to come in a few times to make sure that I knew what I was doing and then I got included in today's workout. I got to do it. It felt great but here's why I'm telling Jesse Pujji. You know what's going on in my head? This is not gonna last. How many times have you tried working out and it's never lasted? I actually have been afraid to ask you if you're still working out because if you then tell me that you're not working out then it feels like You're either a gym person or you're not. And so I figured I'm gonna talk this out just like I said that I, that I wanted to like lifting weights because it might help me. What do you make of this?
Um, I think it's that conversation in your head that, that gets in your way, basically. I think it's a conversation everybody's had that gets in their way.
I guess I know it, but I'm afraid of even tackling it because if I tackle it, then I put more effort on it, and as a result, now I'm the guy who really wants to work out, and then if it doesn't work out, then I'm the guy who really wanted to work out and it didn't work out, didn't happen, you know what I mean?
Why is working out such a charged issue for you?
There are a few things in my life that I really wanted and I couldn't get, and one of them was like a big chest and abs, and I paid these personal trainers so much money, spent so much time doing it, and I finally just said, Look, I'm not getting the results. It's years of doing this. I'm just gonna stop. But that magical moment, Jesse, made me think, oh, you can't do anything. Maybe there's some things that just are not your body or not you. Up until then, I thought, okay, if I obsess on something, and how much more obsessive can you get? I even was eating turkey sandwiches for breakfast because I don't care. I'll eat whatever.
Right, right, right. So it feels like it's some kind of Like major life disappointment for you.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it makes more sense now that you said that. Like, if it's the first time— you just said it's the first time you realize you can't do anything you want. You couldn't have a 6-pack if you wanted it.
Yeah, before then I could say it's because I didn't put any energy in it. I didn't care about it. Now I cared.
Are you willing to feel all your sadness around that and cry about that?
There's a thing that you and Coach Dave Kashian do, which is, are you willing to feel it? And in my head, I always think I have been feeling it. It's been such a letdown of my life that I couldn't, that so much that it's scarring me now. But you mean a different thing.
But what you described is not feeling. You just said— what you said is, I've been thinking about it a lot. I think about it a lot.
Yeah, I filed it away as a, huh, okay, there's a thing I need to not Do or to be mindful of.
Feeling is feeling. It's an actual sensation. It's a thing that your body experiences, not your brain.
I don't know how to— I don't know how to even like begin to understand that beyond— I don't know, beyond just saying—
When was the last time you cried?
It's been a while.
But you know that's a feeling, right? That's just a thing that happens. Like, it's a physical experience. It's not a Your brain is not necessarily involved, certainly not directly. You can't make yourself cry, as an example, right?
I feel like I could by putting a feeling in my head. Actually, I know, I know the last time I cried. I'll tell, I'll tell you about this later, but it's a song that I made using Suno, I swear, about my wife, and it made me cry. Okay.
But can you make yourself cry right now?
No, because I'm too intimidated of being with someone else and having a A shared feeling in public.
But anyway, if you felt your feelings around that, it might lose its power over you. And you might just think like, hey, like for me, I'll tell you my story around working out. And similar, like I like to eat what I like to eat. I like good food. I like to eat sweets. And you just naturally gain weight if you're not paying attention. And I never— I played tennis competitively growing up, but I didn't have like a good exercise routine. Some people were doing it from college. I never was one of those people. And then I'd like wake up and I'd weigh 210 pounds and I'd look like, holy crap, like I've got a tire around myself. And then I would— mine was more like, my version of accomplish anything was like, you just give me a goal and I'll hit the goal. And so I would do like P90X or I would do T25 or like I've done all of those programs and I'm amazing at them. And I'm talking like, dude, in 90 days I'm doing 10 pull-ups. I dropped 30 or 40 pounds. Like I'm a beast. And then I like, and then I would do that and then, then I would fall off the wagon somehow because of a trip or something would happen and I would obsess over it, right? Like my wife, anyone around me was like, this guy is just obsessed. Like it's all he's thinking about. And then like I'd, I'd feel how much willpower was going into it. Then I'd let up on it a little bit and then I'd stop. And then, and then 2 years later I'd be 210 pounds again. Like, so it was almost like my chart would be like slowly this down, slowly this down, slowly this down. And You know, I can say now proudly, I think like I've been lifting weights at least 2 times a week since 2021.
Wow. Oh, I didn't know it was that far back. I assumed it was 2 years ago.
Pretty much since I moved to St. Louis.
Okay.
And I, you know, I'm on a, I'm on a 5, 6 day exercise routine. I'm like generally eating better. My weight has definitely like stabilized. Not perfect, but it's stabilized. And I think I just stopped making it mean anything about me.
I see.
Like, there was no— it just didn't mean that. Like, because I kind of let go of being the guy who could hit goals, that, like, that identity left me. And I'm like, well, like, I kind of, like, want my body to function well. And it seems like exercise— and I, like, feel good after I do it. And now I have, like, I always go in the sauna and hot tub after. So it adds, like, a little bit of an incentive for me. I've gotten a trainer and that is, that's helpful because I know he's waiting on me. And so like I do some, I do like times that I would not normally work out, like first thing in the morning on Mondays and Thursdays I work out and I would never go do that on my own, but he's waiting for me and he's like an intense black bald, black bald dude who's like massive named Rock. His name is Rock.
Mm-hmm.
And then on Saturday afternoons I do it on my own. So I lift 3 times a week. I play tennis 2 or 3 times a week. But, but you know, like the, the way, like, I don't have a goal. That's like, it's like no goal for it, which is kind of crazy. And if I miss a few days or whatever, I was like, it's like, I don't— I just get back on it.
Do you enjoy it?
No, not really. Not particularly.
How do you do a thing that you don't enjoy? I love running.
I love how I feel after it. I love the way my body feels day to day, how it looks. But like, part of the reason I have a trainer and like him and I, like, like him and I barely talk. I actually have headphones on when I'm training.
I love that you do that, that you told him, look, I don't even want to talk to you. I want to listen to my own thing.
I just like, I listen to like either, you know, spiritual music or something. And then, and then he's just like, do this, do this. And I actually like the one thing I do enjoy about it is, you know, you and I, like, you're an entrepreneur, you're building a business, you're always thinking and you're constantly having to like figure out very next move is. Multifaceted problems. It's not like a simple problem, and this is like I'm a monkey. He's like, "Do ten of these. Ten deadlifts. Now do ten more." And I'm just I don't my brain is completely off, and so I do enjoy it's almost meditative in the sense that I'm just like, "How many? Twelve? Okay." And then I feel great afterwards, and so I I don't I don't crave it. I mean, I do actually interestingly crave the feeling now. So if I don't lift for— if I miss a day or two, I like want to feel the feeling of like the resistance, having had the resistance. But I think the most important thing was like I just stopped making it mean anything about me one way or the other. It didn't make me good. It didn't make me bad. It was just— it was like, you know, it was like brushing my teeth. It was like, yep, it's just the thing I do.
Well, I'm going to see. I do like that it's a group program, a group class, and he's just telling everyone what to do. And that's always what I loved about running. I don't have to figure it out. In fact, I didn't like long-distance bike riding because no matter how well organized it was, you always had to figure out some turn somewhere. And I don't even want to think about that. I just want to have a little bit—
Yeah, I think you want to turn your brain off.
Yeah. Ah, all right. I didn't realize that you were still doing it. Okay, this thing, I'm going to talk to you about it because I'm so lit up about it. This thing's Suno. that I was telling you made me cry. You gotta try this. I just, what I did was I made a song about how great dad is for the kids. You know, just bust their chops.
Yeah.
I did this, I did that. It made them laugh and then they kept repeating it, which then they hated because it's so catchy. And I said, wait, I'm being a real jerk. Look what Olivia just did. So I went and I made one about her and we listened to it a couple of times. It was really touching. And then I listened to it on my own And it was like all the things that I, that I'd seen her do. Oh, that, that's what made me cry. That's, that's the thing I'm actually learning, how to tap into my own little feelings like that, have them reflected back at me without a human being. That's one of the things that I like about AI. There's something about talking to you, Jesse, and I trust you and I could tell you, and I'm sure I've told you everything, but there's like an emotional connection that I still can't get to. With AI, I can. You ever do that?
I'm trying it right now.
Oh, to actually make a song?
Yeah. How much information did you give it?
So, um, oh, I gave it a bunch of examples. Actually, the way that I love doing it is I go to Claude. Claude is very good artistically. And you go to Claude and you say, here are a bunch of things that I want. I want you to write a song for me, and I want it to be hip-hop or whatever. For her, I wanted it to be like her fave, like a musician that she loves. And I said, I can't use the name of the musician, so I want you to describe how the musician works.
Um, and then you put that prompt into Suno?
Yeah, then I put it in and that way they could get the person without actually—
Do you know that Suno means listen in Hindi?
No, I didn't know what that meant.
That's, that's, I mean, I have to imagine that's why they, they call it that.
I imagine. Killer domain name too. By the way, while you're doing that, they raised a quarter of a million dollars, over $2 billion valuation for what? What do you, where do you see that going?
I mean, music is a massive market, right? Like, I would, I would start, I would go top down, right? I'd say like, how big is the market for music? There's, there's obviously the obvious, like the stars and concerts and all that stuff. There's soundtracks to movies, there's advertising jingles, and then there's this whole other— I mean, you know, one of the classic things of the best businesses, they create markets where markets didn't exist before.
Mm-hmm.
Like Uber, you know, famously, like Uber created all this usage that no one was using taxis for because taxis were so hard to get to. So, I mean, look at the examples you just gave. Nobody, no dad was doing that stuff 20 years ago. So, you've got the baseline of the market that's there, but then you've got all these other things. And, you know, I bet you the— I mean, I think they said there are $200 million in ARR.
Yes.
I bet you the music, the movie music business is probably a multibillion-dollar, by itself, a multibillion-dollar industry. Like, what does Hans Zimmer get paid for all the Batman movies and all the like? You know, that's got to be a multi, multi-billion dollar, just that category alone. Now, I mean, just think about like corporate offsites. Now you can have custom walk-up music for every executive at a corporate offsite. I mean, just, just so these kinds of businesses expand markets in ways that— so it doesn't— it actually sounds very reasonable to me based on the valuation and based on probably the opportunity.
That's a good point. You really now places where you wouldn't have thought of music because it just didn't fit in. Now you can, you can not just add it, but you can touch someone and you don't have to deal with the whole copyright headache. They never did nail it beyond like a TikTok type of thing where if you want to use someone else's music for something meaningful, they make it a pain. How's it going for you to use Suno?
Well, now I'm on ChatGPT.
Okay. Asking it to make what? Make up a song about you?
I said, based on what you know about me, write a rap that what makes me a great dad with a catchy R&B hook.
Mercy.
That's pretty good.
It did something good? What'd it do? Can you say it out loud?
Yeah, I'm reading it. What kind of artist should I do it to? How about like a Drake song?
Okay. Ask it to write a prompt.
Put it in a rhythm pattern so you can actually rap it.
Mm-hmm. Wow.
That's interesting. I mean, this is the one scary thing about Suno, right?
Mm-hmm.
Like the scary thing about all AI software businesses is like, is ChatGPT gonna just eat all of these? Are the models gonna eat all of these businesses?
Meaning like, right, you're already typing. I do get better results typing the lyrics into Claude, into ChatGPT. You're saying then what's to keep them from eventually adding music in there too as a feature? Just say, make me a song instead of make me the lyrics.
Yeah, that's a scary thing because, because Suno, I mean, I assume, you know, Suno's not— they're using, they're obviously using these models to make their, do their stuff.
I imagine.
Right. So we could probably— I bet you they even let you use different models.
They do a pretty good job of hiding all that stuff, thankfully. There was a tweet where someone said, look at all the money that's going into these LLMs and then, and how much revenue they're making. Look at how little money is going into SaaS AI companies and how much revenue they're making. And Paul Graham's response to that is that there was a pretty good chance that they will actually eat all of them. And so their high market cap, despite the lower revenue right now, is Yeah, I think that's right.
I mean, it's like any of these things, the hype cycles beat, you know, they essentially win out against— it reminds me of like, you know, there was a time when Google was like 10 times the size or no, the best one is the famous, you know, the famous Steve Ballmer gaffe on the iPhone.
Yeah, tell it.
Where he's like, they're like, so what do you think about the iPhone? And he's like, a $600 phone after the subsidy with no keyboard? Like, that thing's dead in the water. And, you know, it's a very famous quote where the guy is just not— he's just not thinking about the future at all. And it's just funny how common that mistake is. It's very weird for me to hear people do it because it's just not the way my brain works at all. Like, but dude, when I was starting Ampush, people were like, Facebook's revenue is, you know, 5% of Google's. Now it's like a 1-to-1 with Google. On the ads business, at least.
Wow.
And not even that they're competing, by the way. I mean, they actually— they help drive— support each other.
All right.
How do I listen to my song now?
Oh, yeah. How do I listen?
It had a good little lander. It made me sign up to listen to the song, but now I don't know where the song went.
Share your screen. Let's take a look.
I think there is something to be said about using Let's see. So it uses a hybrid architecture that combines transformer diffusion. Yeah, I think some of the best AI companies are doing this, which is actually like they, they take all the pieces, they split them up, they feed them, they feed them in different models to do different things. And that's a big part of how they're able to be successful. So that's like somewhat defensible.
Oh, I see. According to Wikipedia, they publicly stated that the training data and full model architecture are not fully disclosed. And then third-party sources report that they use a blend of transformer and/or diffusion-style architectures. Their competitive edge is framed around the product experience.
Which I think that's legit too.
I do too. Unless chat becomes so easy that you can just ask for what you want. Okay, so you got the lyrics there. There should be a place, yeah, where you can put— oh wait, you put the style there and then the lyrics up there.
Oh, it's too long. Can it write the lyrics for me?
It can. I just happen to like Claude, and that's kind of a weird thing where I find that Claude is my creative partner.
Delete. Oh, here are the lyrics. Okay, fine. This keeps upselling me, dude. Okay, this one I can use.
You might even be able to play the others, but I love how fast you can start playing it before the fully— the song is fully written. You can hit play.
Can you hear it? Not really hip-hop.
Oh, that's so cool. That is cool. Good. So good. Chinese. Another one, the one below it. I wonder why it's doing piano and then the hip-hop.
How do I download right here?
A little lower. Yeah, there you go.
Oh.
There you go. Yeah. Jesse in the building, St. Louis in the sun.
3 kids look up 'cause you show them how it's done.
On the court with Ricky when he's swinging that ace at the Spelling bee table, keeping still, giving space. Serena with the sparkle diamonds in the gold dreams.
You hyper— that's so cool, dude.
Yeah, it's so good. And I can't believe—
now you know why it's—
I mean, you didn't even give it any information. You said ChatGPT.
Well, no, what's interesting is this actually is a really interesting thing. If you talk to Adam about this, and this is like the next stage of AI, and I'm trying to— like, there's a really good article by Brian Balfour about this distribution trend that we're thinking about, you know, doubling down on at GatewayX, which is it's this idea that ChatGPT and these platforms will become ways to get distribution. And he— this article you should read, it's a long read, but it's a really good read about how the, you know, historically the platforms have— first they open up and they bring everybody in, then they close down, then they start taking, extracting money from people and taking a toll. And one of the points they make that's really critical about ChatGPT, and we just showed it actually kind of accidentally, is the concept of memory.
Mm-hmm.
And how that's gonna— like, I don't wanna use Claude because, dude, I've uploaded, you know, my coaching session transcripts from Dave. I've uploaded like letters and essays. Like, ChatGPT knows me extremely well. So it actually came up, it somehow knows Ricky plays tennis. It knows Mila loves berries. Like, it is really specific. Like, it has— it knows all the things it said were very, very accurate.
That is a form of lock-in that Gemini does not have.
Well, it's— that's going to be, you know, he talks about you got to figure out what the moat is. And in that case, like, yeah, that's super cool. But yeah, you have to know what the moat is. And in this case, memory will be a big part of the moat, I think, for AI companies.
I think so. And then I think if they also have the browser, they get you. And then Google has an opportunity too. But without the browser— the browser has everything. I'm now using ChatGPT's browser is my main browser. They're aware of what I've done online in the past.
Well, that's— I mean, imagine like what it does for ad tech and that kind of thing. Like now you're— you go to a web page, right?
Right.
Your web page should look very different than my web page. I go to the web page in the browser and it's like, oh, well, he knows Jesse. Here's a suggestion for Mila, Jesse. And for your web page, you have sons and I have 2 daughters and it just knows that about us fundamentally.
And it knows more about me than Facebook knows because I've uploaded even like psychological diagnoses, not for myself, but—
That's right. That's right.
For the family. Yeah, for sure. I go, explain what the teacher's telling me over here. Uh, look at this. I went into the browser. I said to ChatGPT, based on my browser, what do you know about me? You're producing and editing content constantly. Beehive posts, Google Docs. Jesse's content plan, sheets for LinkedIn lists, Notion pages with drafts, clips on Drive. You're analyzing interviews and meetings daily. You're scanning the startup creator ecosystem, Techmeme, Wall Street Journal Deals, Jesse's Threads. Uh, you're tracking individual people intensely. Dan, who I'm gonna meet with next month, is so good.
Yeah.
All the stuff that I think people worry about with privacy is— and I get the fear. I'm also concerned about it. But man, it's the superpower.
Let's talk about that, actually, because I don't think I've ever spoken about this in public and out loud. I don't understand people's fear about privacy. There's only one argument that makes sense to me, which I'll tell you in a second, but the rest of them all make no sense to me. You know what I say to people who worry about privacy? You're not that important. Because we live in our own heads. We're like, oh my God, people are going to take— like, nobody cares. Like, there's actually 2 arguments I can listen to, which I'll tell you in a second. I just thought of a good second one.
Okay.
But, but why? What's, what's the— why do you care about privacy, Andrew? What, what are you afraid of?
Um, there are a few things that I'm afraid of. One is when I lived in San Francisco, maybe you experienced this. How many founders did I, did I talk with? Who would go and look at other people's content because they had like, what is it called, God mode on whatever platform they had or a friend's platform and they could go and look into it. And I think you are within that world where someone could say, let me go and take a look at what Jesse's doing. And if it's not the person whose app you signed up with, maybe email app, you signed up for Superhuman, you're good. Maybe a while back you signed up for some other email app and you forgot about it and it was sold to someone who is unscrupulous. And that kind of thing worries me for sure. Then there are like—
that's security, right? I mean, you're worried about security in some sense.
That's a— that's an issue.
There was security. Then are you, are you worried anymore? Because that's how the argument most people make with Facebook and other— they talk about like how it's creepy.
And I don't care about the creepy part. I care about more of the direct hit. And then I care about being judged based on stuff that I didn't give you to judge me on. You know, like, are you afraid that that gets made public?
Or are you afraid that just some person knows something about you?
No, that's more like private. So for example, I've uploaded some of your posts to LinkedIn. When I then come back and I ask it questions, as we were like editing some of your LinkedIn posts, and then I go back and I ask ChatGPT for something, and it goes— it assumes that I am Jesse now. And that's like a bad assumption that gives me bad outcome. Right now they are not handling my insurance decision, my flights, and all that. This kind of like bad mixing things up, or frankly Using some kind of psychological diagnosis that I sent because— and I said, based on this, tell me what you think about me, instead of saying, based on this, tell me what you think about my brother who asked me to give him some feedback on his life. That's the kind of thing that I worry about. Right.
I mean, I specify now when I'm asking on behalf of somebody else.
That's a good point.
Because I don't want it making that mistake. I'm like, my wife, can you help me? I'm trying to help my wife with this thing. Can you do this?
That's a good— no, but what about this? I've told you that I took some of my kids' personal information. I didn't fully understand it. Doctor sent some paper over, the teacher sent something over. I don't fully understand it. They don't write very well. I need a summary. I upload it. They didn't give permission for their data to go up in there. Can it then be used against them? Like, they, 5 years from now when—
But your kids don't, don't, I mean, if you do it, then it's authorized.
No, I know, I get it. But what I mean is when they come back 5 years from now and they're trying to get something out of a system, ChatGPT-based, that then has this past information on them, It's unfair. So that's the kind of thing that I think about. Those things.
Yeah, I think I— in order of most compelling to least compelling arguments for it, the number one most compelling argument, I think, is if the government becomes like Big Brother one day, the government actually can use it against you. I think that's the most compelling argument because it flies in the face of like being a free country. And most countries, even like India, which is a democracy, they're not actually free. Like the government will basically strip you of your rights. And that's something I'm very sensitive to. Did you know what, by the way? I did a second degree in political science. That's a fun fact about me.
Most people don't know. That is very unexpected.
I'm actually secretly very, very adept in governments and politics.
Because you do not love politics. So I'm surprised.
I hate politics, but I like— I actually like the philosophical part. Like, I like thinking about how it affects the world. And so privacy, you know, as a quick sidebar, you know, one of the most important rights that we all have is due process. And you don't think about due process until, like, you need to, because it's like, well, everyone in the government— like when Trump earlier this year or last year was sending off people, the fact that they're like, someone could go to court on their behalf and challenge it. If you don't have that, the government basically runs everything. Like, it just doesn't matter, right? So anyway, that's a sidebar. But so due process is one argument. The second argument you were kind of getting to, I think, could be like discrimination. So can you use something against me that you're not supposed to know?
Yes.
And I think that's like another potential for companies or other people to use something against you. I forgot the third one that I thought— I think it's reasonable. But in general, man, I think people way overworry about privacy. And by the way, I was— I've spoken publicly about this. I'm like, if, if people cared as much about privacy as the government pretends they do, or like the EU pretends they do, how many times in your life have you gone to a website where that stupid pop-up comes up and said no, No, you can't. I, I don't accept.
Whenever I have the patience, I do. But there's so many times when I then come back and undo it. And then you see someone like Adam Robinson, and I say to Adam, how is it that your site, I forget what it's called, can tell me the email addresses and the LinkedIn profiles of people who come onto my site? And he goes, no shyness, no hesitation. He goes, do you know how many times you go online and you fill out a form without, with all your information? And then there's a cookie and we connect it all back together. That's how we do it.
Nobody on the internet ever doesn't hit accept when they want to go use a website. Zero people do that. Nobody goes, I want to buy this product. Oh, it's up. No, you can't have my cookies, which shows you consumers don't actually give a shit.
Um, and you're right. I don't think they care enough. And I do think that we care more about the benefit. All right, here's another. Tell me what you think about this one. I was listening to the audiobook Careless People, such a good, um, such a good book about a woman who worked, uh, for Facebook. In global policy, and she was talking about how much Facebook was willing to give China in exchange for getting to operate in China, including users in the US's data to get into China. And so maybe in the US we have whatever protection we want, but other countries? And then we in the US now are using social media content that people have posted up about the president or about the country as a reason to let them in or out or to decide how to treat them. I fly through countries all the time. What's the— what's to stop them in the future from doing something? I think we have all these, honestly, all these different crazy thoughts in our heads, but they're outweighed by the immediate benefit that we get.
That's right.
We get a song about us as dads.
I just, I don't think anyone— first of all, I don't think anyone's that important. Oh, I remember the third argument. The third argument that I would accept is a celebrity or somebody who's got some sort of notoriety or fame. And the safety of their family, which I don't— again, I like, even for me, dude, I post like people who post their kids' pictures on social media and put, you know, block out the picture. Again, I'm not hating on anyone. Do what you're comfortable with. But like, I don't think anyone's trying to get your kids and no one— I don't think anyone's trying to get my kids.
Like, that is fair. I know what you're saying. It's not like someone's going to go now and say, okay, Jesse's kids are now online. I need to get Jesse. I'm going to go and kidnap them because I saw their picture on X. I'm going to go over to the school and I'm going to find them.
Correct. Or like, or like, I don't think it increases— like, dude, if they want to jack me, they're going to come and jack me. You know, they want to rob me, they're going to come rob me. Like, it doesn't seem to be— maybe on the margin. But I think if you're super famous, I can understand the desire for security. Here's another funny— this is totally a random aside. I live on this street with a bunch of, you know, you've been on my street. There's, you know, there's a bunch of $3 to $7 million houses in St. Louis, which like for anyone in the Bay, like that's like a $20 million house. You know, our house would be $20 easily in the Bay, right? It's on an acre and a half, whatever.
More.
Yeah, more probably if you could find it. And our HOA, do you know what our annual HOA fees are?
I can't believe you even have an HOA at a place like that. No, I have no idea.
They're, they're like $700.
Great. Okay.
Which is nothing.
Well, do they also have power or is it just they take money?
No, it's just like, it's mostly like snow, snow removal. And every 5 years they repave the road.
But they're not coming over and telling you to take down your Christmas lights because they're too gaudy. It's not that kind of—
No, no, no, it's not. It's not like that. It's not like a— but, but in any case, we— first of all, I was on the board and I was like, all right, we need to double this. Like, we just need more money. This thing hadn't gone up in like 20 years. I'm like, we need to raise this. And first of all, 40% of people voted against it.
Okay.
And I'm like, what the hell? Like, who are these multimillionaires and why are they so against an additional $800 a year? It was so bizarre to me. And then someone on our house's street got robbed by one of these Chilean things, came in at the second floor, robbed it. And, you know, again, I have kids, I have little kids. A lot of people are older on my street. But I'm like, hey guys, like, you know, I did the math. I'm like, there's 20 houses. Average house is $4 million. Like, we got $80 million worth of property literally just in this little enclave. Like, I think we should do a special approval for $50,000 or $100,000. I forgot what the number was, but something like that to get proper— like have a security guard that checks their thing out, to get the flock camera, to do all these different things. Dude, people, people went against it.
I get that. Now, Jesse might have a flock— I don't even know what a flock camera is, but Jesse's gonna have a flock camera on my neighborhood. Now you got security. At what point are they gonna be overbearing? I gotta manage it. Can't I just pay for my own security, you pay for your own security, and we just beef it up?
I just don't— why would we as a neighborhood not be willing to spend $5,000, $10,000? It's just, it's just to me, again, people are just very irrational. And then it's like, oh no, but you can't have my information online because that's really— oh, you know another funny one about this? You know, you know whose your information is way more susceptible for than online?
Yes. I'm going to say this. Credit card companies.
Direct mail. Well, yeah, it's direct— direct mail is much scammier than the internet ever has been, which is why when you move into a new house or you all of a sudden all these people somehow can reach you because that is a much shadier industry than the internet.
You know what, when I was a kid, I was like obsessive about this stuff and I would create like suites for my house. So if I'd give someone an address for anything, there would always be a suite number and a suite number actually you could put a code with actual thing.
Right.
I gave it to whatever, Jesse, and I would see it randomly pop up in places that you wouldn't have expected. And obviously now things have gotten even better. All right, I'm willing to let go of my security and I do it on a regular basis and I can Completely accept it. Let's talk a little bit about this. You know what? You don't want me to talk about this, but there's a company in St. Louis that's worth how much money? Can we say what the money— what the amount of money is?
I gotta go, Andrew.
You do?
I do.
Okay. Yeah. The hell? This is like a 15-minute touch and go. All right, we'll end it here then. See ya.
Good times.
Yeah. Bye.
