A Servant Leader's Response to Change

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Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for joining with us here at JLC Media. This podcast today is one of the podcasts under the title the Essence of Change. And actually was Colleen, who's on the on the call with us today or on the show with us today, who talked with me about this in the context of when great change unfolds, how do we play the role of servant and then as leader? So today's podcast really is going to talk about the actual thought process that goes on when somebody is put into a leadership position and needs to create a mindset to be successful, create a mindset of service by the time this is finished today. And Colleen will close us out with three recommendations at the very end. Each of you will walk away with some understanding about the distinctions between servant and leader and how that has evolved over the last century. And the takeaways will be a couple of recommendations. Just so you notice your own leadership and you are aware of how your leadership is occurring to people, landing on people. That's the setup for today. And we're very grateful you're here. Joe, what did you hear me say we're going to work on today?

We're going to talk about the relationship between servant leaders and leading their populations.

Absolutely. And in that context of leader, and I think you did this and Julie and Colleen in another show that we did, sometimes if you're really good at something, you get promoted and you end up then kind of micromanaging the people you were asked to lead because you can do the job as well as they can, if not better. This is a big shift for a leader. When they fall in love with leading and not necessarily the subject matter expertise that they held before they were promoted. They still have it, but leading is a little bit different. That's really good, Joe. Thank you, Julie. What are you hearing and thinking?

The opportunity for the listeners to reflect on their own leadership and how it possibly is occurring to others. How you're showing up. Are you showing up with power and with servant and keeping showing you, showing all those you're leading how you care? Or are you showing up with force and telling people what to do and then knowing and maybe you're not even aware of which way you're showing up?

That's really good. Robert Greenleaf is the person who made popular the phrase servant leader, and he worked at AT&T for four decades. And one of his personal criticisms of himself as A leader at AT&T was that the hierarchy sometimes stifled the ability for the leader to be in service. To those that they were in, that were in their charge, people they were supposed to take care of. That was really good, Julie. Thank you. Colleen, what are you. What are you thinking?

Yeah, I guess I'm just thinking about kind of a little bit of what Julie laid on the table and this sense of just self awareness and how you show up. And many times, as you mentioned, you get promoted and you think you need to show people how much, you know, you need to show up as a fixer. You need to show up and do something to demonstrate your leadership. And it's just like, whoa, whoa. Right. So it's this sense and this mindset of almost pivoting from you've got to show up and start doing to how can I show up in a space where I'm really listening, where I'm curious, where I want to understand how are things going? And to your point, Ray, you mentioned how can I provide the conditions in which those under my care really can show up and be the very best selves.

Yeah, that's nicely stated. And the sense of showing up with curiosity and wondering, that is almost like the fertile ground of conversational leadership. The work that we bring outbound and all the practices and protocols are about that. How do we show up and really recognize. My job is to make sure that I can be the best version of myself and those in my care will receive the necessary resources, so. So they can be the best version of themselves. That's really nicely stated. So let's kind of shift into little anecdotes. I'd like you to give me one of you give me an example of someone who led you, that behaved like a servant leader. And then we're going to do a non example. Let's start off with an example. Can you come up with. And maybe we can maybe we can mostly find people who didn't behave that way. Right. But I would love you to find somebody who. Who really understood the need to be in service to the community that they led. Who'd like to start?

I can start. Ray, I'm gonna use you. When I started working with you, I was used to people telling me what to do and for how long. And I don't do very well with that. I like to have choice voice. And so you have always very clearly given me positive feedback right from the very beginning. And the way that you listen to me and you're really searching for what are some things that maybe I'm talking about that I would be interested in. And you're constantly looking for ways for me to show up in my best self by creating the conditions or the clients that I might work really well with. And then there's always the option of if I want to work with them or not. And you have your way and I have my way, and that's okay. And so I truly feel like you care about me. I truly feel like you want me to be happy with what I'm doing. And it's about me, me and our clients and not you in the company.

Okay, thank you. It's very kind and it's lovely. Joe, how do those words land on you in this context of thinking about servant leadership?

Yeah, here's what I'm thinking about, is that I think servant leadership is very important, but I think there's a fundamental question that has to be answered that's about servant to what? So I think leaders have to have and must well, articulate a vision that is worthy and that will enlist people if their vision is to run their department or their piece of an enterprise well enough to get promoted. It's going to be difficult to get people to enlist for that. If your goal is to provide the best customer service to be, then I think you have a larger vision, just pulling that out of the air as an example. But then you have a larger vision, and people can begin to see how they fit into that. And indeed, your servitude, if you want to think of it that way, perhaps that's the wrong word. But your service then begins to align to that greater purpose to which everyone can contribute.

So that's really a magnificent description. I'm going to pivot to you, Colleen, about what you heard from Joe. Those of you that are listening, if you don't know Joe Marshall, he stood watch for us while we were at home, and he watched over us. So the idea that he was in service, too, the American community at large, is a trademark of Joe. He sees that as a component of his life that was very critical. And he can explain it better than I can, I'm sure, But I regularly say to him, as I do to others, thank you for your service. So isn't that interesting that we thank somebody in our military for their service? We thank people in community boards and community firemen, police, you know, sanitation workers. Thank you for your service. These. This is really interesting how we get it, but we don't always behave that way once we become a leader. So, Julie, you should do this. Joe, do this. Colleen, do this. You'd all quit if I behave that way with you. You wouldn't have tolerated and it's interesting to notice that. And this is not me. This is the work of Greenleaf. How do you take care of people that have been put in front of you in your care? And Joe beautifully pulled one out there, and so did Julie. What do you need in order to be successful at either customer service? Patient safety? You pick it. In order to be successful at that, what resources do I need to broker as leader, to provide to you, to give to you in service so that you can be successful? Colleen, what are you thinking about this so far?

Yeah, what I'm kind of. What's resonating with me is the piece that Joe offered up in this sense of when we talk about servant leadership, while it is so critically important to broker necessary resources, I like his example where it was. And what are you in service to? Because if you're in service to something that is focused on yourself, well, that contradicts the whole sense of being in service to others. And so whatever that vision of being in service to is, how are you ensuring that you're having conversations about those. So those you lead see that vision as well, and they understand how they fit in. And I'll lay this other one piece on the table because. Because really, what's surfacing in me is one of the things we share with our clients all the time is ensuring you're mutually invested in each other's success. It's not just, I'm there leading this team because I want to look good and I want to get a promotion. It's how am I ensuring that. I really find out what is critical to each one of my team members and how can I support them. So it's not just Colleen's team. It is. Everyone is here, and we are one team focused on that customer experience.

I love that. Joe, can you add on to what you just said?

Yeah. So I really like what Colleen said, particularly the aspect of the leaders have to talk about the vision all the time because it should be who they are, and it should be what their passion is in this. And. And if they have a vision and they don't like talking about it or they're tired of talking about it, then they have the wrong vision, because the vision that you want to set needs to be why you are doing this line of work or why you are in this. And again, it could suggest larger career changes might be in order if you're. If you just don't fit in. But honing back to our subject here, I think having the vision, talking about it regularly so that people knows that it is part of your DNA and that you are working constantly as their proponent, as their advocate, as their servant to help them accomplish the things that they need to reach the mission.

That's just beautiful. Thank you. Julie, what did you hear Joe say?

I heard Joe and I want to push back just a little bit because I feel like it's a reciprocal process. I'm sure people out there are hearing it, but I can also hear how some people are just hearing, oh, the leader has to talk about the vision and the vision and the vision. And it's a single vision. What I'm thinking of is the systems thinking. And I'm sure, Joe, you're thinking this as well, right? It's how do we take everyone's individual vision and create a shared vision so that we all have the same vision? It's not just the leader sharing the vision and then everybody else getting behind it. It's this is what's everyone's vision and mission and how can we all support each other. It's a reciprocal process. And I think sometimes the leaders that are servant leaders do a really great job of really trying to bring everybody together and create that shared vision. But sometimes those who are supporting the leader, they oftentimes only think of themselves and then they get resentful and they get frustrated and they don't feel certain things. So it's important for them too to think about the leader and how can I support the leader's vision as well? So it's a mutual, caring, reciprocal process where it's going out and coming back in feedback loop, I guess.

Yeah. I would just add to that, Julie, that I think again, the vision is something you have to talk about and it does need to be shared sometimes. The function of the leader, though, is to build that shared vision. And that's what you just said when Bill Gates, or not Bill Gates, but when Jeff Bezos started Amazon, it was a book selling company he was doing out of his garage. It wasn't the global influencer and deliverer of every possible thing that we see now. And I doubt that probably the people that he rallied around him probably didn't have that vision. He may have had that vision, but it took a while to develop.

Now, Colleen, what are you hearing from your two friends?

Yeah, I'm just hearing the importance of not only having leader in a servant leadership role, understanding and developing a shared vision, but then helping people understand where they fit in. And I'm also hearing them talk about alignment and helping people align what it is they're doing to ensure that the mission is getting accomplished. Right. And I think there's a sense of value in that. And another big piece that I'm really hearing is this sense of relentless repetition. I think, to Joe's point, you can state whatever, what your priorities are, what your priorities are, what your values are, what your vision is, whatever that happens to be. And many people might do it a one and done. But how can we ensure, no matter what it is we're modeling to our team as a servant leader, that we do that with relentless repetition?

So I like this sense of relentless repetition, and I like the way the three of you teed up this idea that having vision and then sharing it is generally what people think of when you say shared vision. Is that important. Absolutely. The servant leader's next step is to connect the individual's personal visions of success to that larger vision. And sometimes we miss that. And this is a great opportunity to be thinking about, do the people that I lead understand the system, my vision of success? Do they see that? Have I given them space so they can actually share their own personal vision of success and how it connects to the larger vision? So this, the discipline of shared vision is to make sure that I can state my personal vision and connect it to the larger vision provided to me by the system or the leader directly that I work with. This was magnificent because you opened up the door to personal mastery. How do I get better? So I can be the best version of myself and the discipline of shared vision. And for the longest time, I've used the same definition of what does it mean? This is this whole leadership thing to enable a team to accomplish their shared dreams. And that shared dream is their personal vision of success. And to Joe's point, if it doesn't connect to the vision and the organization that they're in, that's time for a decision. And there's lots of ways to make a movement forward where what it is that I care about deeply, that I care about deeply can be connected to the place where I'm working. This is Simon Sinek's very first TED Talk where he said, you've got to connect your personal why to the larger why. It's really no one else's responsibility but your own. If you can't figure that out, you're not going to be able to sustain the level of excitement and joy and incredible, relentless effort to accomplish those visions. This was really good, guys. Let me kind of do a quick checkup. What surprised you most in this conversation? You guys were just magical. Today.

I'LL go ahead and start. I think probably what surprised me was what I noticed you do as you facilitated the conversation, Ray, was you just continue to close the loop and to ask each one of us, what did you hear and what resonated with you? And I think the surprising thing is, you know, we work with our clients all the time and they're like, oh, how do I make my. How do I make my meetings more engaging and interactive? And I think the one thing that really surfaced with me, not just the content, but it was in that simplicity and elegance in just saying. Joe, what did you hear? You know, Julie and Colleen just say something as simple as that, that little pivot, it's surprising, deepens the conversation and really helps ensure everyone stays present to the conversation in a mount.

So in that, you just brought out the other discipline. There are five we work on. The other one's called team learning, which requires safe space and engagement. And you guys were just. The way you responded to each other almost brings you back into the conversation because, oh, I was actually heard somebody really got me. Engagement happens when people feel like their voice matters. That's really cool. Thank you. So this is. We're talking about personal mastery, shared vision, servant leadership. Right. All through the process of team learning. Thank you for catching that. Joe, what surprised you?

I think perhaps not a surprise, but it's helpful to reflect on again, the work of leadership, which I believe starts with a vision, and then how you apply yourself to that vision across the organization and how you do that consistently. And I think many times leaders get weary. Many times leaders want to be less proactive, not more proactive. I think recognizing, again, this goes very much back to the conversation earlier. Julie's talking about how do you show up? I think the leader has to understand that if that's how they show up in the space, as withdrawn, as not engaged, as lacking a vision that people can subscribe to, then that's minus 10 points off of whatever score you hope to have right from the get go. And so you've got to have, you've got to bring passion, you've got to bring some insight to this and you've got to be willing to work with other and build the relationships because the relationships are what make the vision accomplishable. And I'm out.

So he just did two big pieces for those of you that are listening. One is leadership presence. What's your focus? What's your talk? What's your stance? And are you consistently, relentlessly reminding people of what the vision is and keep inviting them to enroll as much as they can possibly enroll in that vision. That's magnificent. The second piece, we never, as a community, this JLC team. Relationships are everything. The greater the quality of the relationship, the greater the result. In fact, I won't even be able to understand what Colleen's vision is, Joe's or Julie's, if the relationship is in high quality, because then I can't figure out what they individually want to accomplish and figure out what I can do to help the team win. That's really good, Joe. Thank you, Julie.

I think the thing that surprised me was what Colleen said about alignment. A lot of times we see leaders, whether engaged or disengaged, like Joe talked about, and they're doing all of the work and they're not understanding why no one understands what's going on. And then we see other employees who are doing a lot of work, too, and not understanding why the boss doesn't appreciate them. And there's a disconnect there. And just simply showing up in simplicity and talking and reminding them, especially at the C suite level, they understand the why, and they understand how everyone's roles and responsibility help the company continue to grow. But a lot of times, those that they're leading don't see that. All they see is phone calls or meetings, or they don't see the bigger why. So the real importance of making sure that everyone is aligned in their roles and responses, possibilities toward that vision.

And you're out.

And I'm out.

So there's a piece you just gave us that's really big, irrespective of the vision and how much I'm connected to it. If I don't understand the backyard that I'm playing in, and that's really defined by roles and responsibilities, operating principles about my personal responsibility, I don't understand that I'll get out of my backyard or I'll forget that I'm in one, and I won't be able to provide what's necessary to enable the team to win. It's just really good. Thank you, Joseph. Before we go, Colleen, you had three things to remind our listeners of. Right. When you think about servant leadership, there are three areas I'd like all of you to hear her articulate because she and I chased this literature pretty hard, and she came up with three things that I thought were just wonderful. You got it?

Sure. Absolutely. So the first one, and I think we've alluded to this, is throughout our conversation today, is safe space. If I'm a servant leader, and I am really working with My team, I am consciously and continually creating a space where they feel safe to show up and be themselves, to ask questions, not to feel like there are things that you can't talk about. And so just intentionally creating safe space was the first piece. First one, that second one, and I know that we probably have done some other podcasts before about it, is really checking on your assumptions. We always say, don't believe everything you think. And so how can we be mindful of our assumptions to ensure that I'm operating on what I. Not just what I think, but what I know. And so that's where that curiosity comes in. And this one's called the ladder of inference. And so that is really. The second one is. The first one's the safe space piece. And the second one is really being mindful of your assumptions. And the third one is just consistent praise and acknowledgement. And hopefully you've noticed that's what Ray's been doing the entire time, and he's been talking to the three of us. Of us. It's. How can we ensure that we are continually praising and acknowledging and being very, very deliberate and specific about that acknowledgement? Those things also really help create that space and those conditions where those you lead, those people within your care can show up and continue to focus on bringing their very best selves to work every day.

That was just great, Colleen. Thank you. Yeah, there's probably 20 things we could have written down. And as we were chasing all the little pieces of literature that were out there around servant leadership, those three seem really, really useful. And they match, of course, the work that we do. So we're a little egotistical about that and like that. This is what we teach people, and it's what we teach ourselves. And that ability, by the way, to acknowledge each of you that I do my best to do on every one of these events, these JLC media programs, in a sense, that feels like praise. It feels like I acknowledge your thinking and I want to understand it. That is just. Otherwise, my ladder will take me over and I'll show you. Colleen's thinking this, Joe's thinking that. Julie's not valid, and I will end up creating all this internal noise. Not useful. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm so glad you tuned in. If you haven't read anything by Robert Greenleaf, please feel free to. He has lots of little, little books and big books, and he based his entire piece, as I shared earlier with, with the gang, on. On a book written by Herman Hess. Herman Hess is most known for Siddhartha, but He wrote a very short 100 page book called Journey to the East. If you'd like to read something about leadership, it's just incredible that Robert Greenleaf, our Servant Leader guy, he brought that story to life and the work that he did at at&t and after at&t when he ran a center for Practical Ethics. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for being with us. We hope you'll come find us on gojlc. Take care of one another Lead well. Sincerest thanks for listening to this episode.

Of the Everyday Leadership Conversations podcast.

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