Acknowledge and Respond Respectfully

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Ladies and gentlemen, thank you again for taking some of your valuable asset time and joining us for a few minutes. I think you're going to Enjoy today's podcast, YouTube. We really want to welcome you and very, very grateful that you're here. So our podcasts come. The content that the podcast tends to come from our client base. They have told us what they care about, what they'd like to hear more about. Very often when we're working a room or with an individual, they'll say, gee whiz, can you tell us more about this, whatever it is we're working on? So today we are going to work on one of the things that is consistent in our practice and we all, all of us attempt to model this and that is how well can we acknowledge and respond respectfully in a conversation or in a meeting. Please remember, ladies and gentlemen, that we think a meeting is a one on one conversation or a one with many conversation. Okay? So we don't see those as very different. And all of us with you today online, we pretty much practice these disciplines in the same way all the time. So with that said, before I start this, this entire piece, let me get each of the gang online just to tell you their name. They are all JLC associates. They are all certified executive coaches. That's who's talking to you today. And they're going to give you a little, just a fast 15, 20 seconds about who they are individually. So Colleen, tell me about who you are.

Colleen.

Yes. Well, I'm a mother. I have three boys that I love dearly. I'm athletic, I love to go skiing and golfing.

That is Colleen Sullivan, JLC associate and she functions as well so many places in our house. But she's our chief operating officer and she watches over product, people producing product and a thousand other things. Grateful to have her. Vince, tell me about who you are.

So I'm Vince and I'm a father of two girls, man. I have a graduating senior and a rising ninth grader and from Southside Chicago, third generation. I like Harley Davidson's cigars and a little bit of libations to go along with that.

Welcome, Vince. That's Vince Starks and he's been with us for more than a year now and we are so grateful he's with us. And Nicole, you're on.

Hi. As you said, I'm Nicole. Sticking with the theme, I'm a mother as well. We have four boys in total and in our family and I'm grateful that they all love to adventure as much as I do. Whether that's travel or getting outdoors in the Pacific Northwest, where I live, that brings me great joy.

That's great. Yeah. It's wonderful to have the family theme going on here. So those of you that don't know me, I have three kids and a truckload of grandkids. I always sometimes forget how many. I think I have 13. So there are a lot of grandchildren, a lot of kids, and a lot of things. A lot of moving parts. My kids go from 20, grandkids go from 28. Now we're 27, down to 10. So that's us. Now you know a little bit about who we are in our families. So right now we're going to shift into the actual content of the podcast, and today we're going to talk about the importance of acknowledging people and responding respectfully in a conversation with or in a meeting. So, Nicole, why would we be talking about this?

Well, acknowledging and responding respectfully for me, I love the way that it builds the relationship and it builds trust and safety in the conversation. I know when I say something in our meetings that no one is going to judge me or think it was stupid. And the response that I get is often affirming to what I said or at least appreciative for me, sharing my thoughts and ideas.

Interesting. Could one of the two of you acknowledge her, respond respectfully, and extend. Why are we talking about this?

Sure, I will. Thank you, Nicole. I appreciate your perspective, and I like this sense of growing trust. And I think when I've been working with colleagues and clients, it's like this elusive thing, right? Oh, we're going to do trust building. We're going to do this. I got to build trust with my team. And they make it sound like it's some big, hard thing, you know, And I'm sitting here scratching my head because acknowledging and responding respectfully is something you can do in every conversation, virtual or in person. And that simple act produces an environment, produces safe space. And to me, if you consistently create safe space now, I can enhance and grow the trust within the team.

That's really excellent.

Thank you. And, Vince, what did you hear Colleen say? And can you extend that?

Sure. So what I heard you say, Colleen, was that it was important, if you acknowledge and respond respectfully, that you kind of create an environment where it produces a safe space.

And.

And with that production of a safe space now you can enhance the team's overall common understanding. And so, only thing I would add to that, if I could just put the cherry on top, is ultimately, if you set that condition and now you have the team with a common and shared understanding of objectives. You can then, as a leader and as a team, take the organization to its ultimate outcome or as desired in state that you seek to have.

That's really nice. So how do we make sure that everybody recognizes this practice of acknowledging and respectful response as a way to ensure we will move forward tactically or strategically to accomplish the desired end state or vision? That's really nice, Vince. Thank you. So if you had your way, and what would you like the listeners to understand together? What would you like them to understand together about the practice of acknowledging and responding respectfully? Some of it you've already given us. So if there's anything we missed, I really want to hear it. What might we add about the need to respond in a very respectful way? Vince, why don't you start us off?

Yeah. So I guess the first thing I would ask people to do and consider is that this has to be a very intentional action and a disciplined action. And if you intentionally go into your meeting because some people are good at it and you do it naturally, and some of us, we really have to focus our attention on this, I think it's very important to do it very consistently. It needs to be a very intentional part of your meeting structure, your conversational structure. And if you do that, I promise it will yield just outstanding results in my experience.

That's great. I think there's experience in that, isn't there, Colleen, Anything else they need to understand as a team? What do you want this group of listeners to understand?

Sure. I think besides intentionality, it needs to be authentic. It can't be bullshit because nobody's gonna buy it. Right. If I'm like, oh, yeah, great offering, Vince. You know, it's gonna land flat. And so this acknowledge I'm responding respectfully. It's not just checking the box. Oh, well, guess what, Vince? I acknowledged and responded respectfully. After everybody responded, aren't I a good, you know, good leader because I'm building the safe space with my team. No, that's not the purpose and the point. So we need to be authentic in our comments or else it actually will backfire and it will actually do the opposite of creating that safe space.

Yeah.

Actually, if I have watched people lift up their charts, right. And say, okay, look at the five learning conversation guidelines and look at us. We're all going to try and acknowledge and respond respectfully, and then they immediately dismiss someone's thinking. And I believe they don't even notice that they do it they sometimes do it non verbally. Sometimes verbally. It could be as simple as looking at their phone when somebody is talking. There's so many little ways we dismiss other people's thinking. If we can commonly understand that, I think that would be really useful.

Nicole, anything we left out.

I think there were kind of two things that came up for me. One, to build on what Colleen was saying about the authenticity, it requires your presence. You have to be present in the conversation with people and truly listen to what they're saying in order to be able to respond respectfully. And I think the other thing that I wanted to bring forward is this can seem daunting when you're leading a conversation or a meeting to open it up to hear people's ideas and know that you have to respond. So I would encourage leaders, as they put this into practice, to know that this may take a little more time or feel clunky in the beginning, but it will yield much better results at the end of the conversation and meeting.

That's a nice thought, but it's also research driven. If we are actually able to tap into the collective wisdom that's in this room, we will make better decisions. We'll just do a better job overall. So I think this piece is so important. So let me show you a couple of ways we're going to do three key points. The first key point is sometimes our pet peeves or our judgments pull us.

Out of a conversation or pull us.

Out of a meeting. I want you each to think of a recent meeting or conversation you're in where somebody said something or did something or acted in a certain way that said, and you are out the door.

Who'd like to start?

I can start. I was in a recent webinar meeting, and the folks that were leading the conversation plowed right through their agenda and did not even pause to ask for folks to create meaning. They did not pause and ask for questions till the very end. And once they did, at the end of that conversation, say, does anyone have any questions? There were like one or two that popped up in the chat, but no one was willing to get their voice into the conversation. So that was a frustrating experience.

That's a pet peeve for me, too. And it's interesting to me that even if I have awareness about that, I sometimes still keep going. I need to pay attention to the people that are involved with me, not the agenda. And I think I already told you this. One of my great coaches said to me, make sure that you show up and not your slides and not your agenda. Okay. Because they really want you to show up, Ray. Because you are what they want to interact with. I think that's really great. Thank you. Colleen. Got a pet peeve?

Absolutely. I got plenty. I could spend the rest of the day talking about my pet peeves, but I'll go to one of my top. Top that I've been really top of mind, which is my son Connor, who goes to school at Montana State University. Just had a conversation with him yesterday. And my pet peeve is many times when I begin to have a conversation, he pivots to this negative space. Negative. And everything is about how, you know, this instructor isn't explaining everything good enough. I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I'm tired of going to school. I don't like this. I don't like that. And of course, as. And I know defending is losing, and I don't want to engage this way, but my heart is just feeling for him. So what do I do? I lean into the conversation. And so I'm responding. I'm reacting rather than responding. So I'm like, no, no, Connor, everything's great. Look outside your window. Look at you get to go skiing three days a week, and you don't even have to have a job, you know? And so I'm trying to pull him out from his negative focus. So I think not only is this my pet peeve, because he's looking at this negative piece, right? He's focusing on the negative, which is limiting his ability to be successful. I then am reacting and jumping in, trying to pull him out, which I know isn't helping anything either. So literally, like, hung up on me because he's all mad.

Colleen, that's beautiful.

Both you and Nicole have articulated that.

When I slip into that space of, you know, whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot.

What are you talking about?

Why are you saying this? Right.

I detach myself from truly acknowledging and responding respectfully. It's almost like I love you so much. If I try and respond respectfully and acknowledge you right now, you might get the idea. I agree with you. Therefore, you may go down a bad path. That is all about judgment. That is all about losing ourselves in our pet peeve. Losing ourselves in reacting rather than responding to a young man. That's really excellent. Thank you. Thank you both. Vince, how about you? What's a pet peeve in a meeting or a conversation?

So I find there's dignity and simplicity. It just may be my mental state. And so when I'm talking with people and they're explaining things or topics. And if they're using a lot of just really esoteric language and very nebulous thoughts, it becomes very difficult to follow. And I just don't understand. And I was in a meeting last week with the staff member, and the presenter was just talking just about these conceptual things. And after about six minutes or so, I didn't know what she was talking about. I had this pause and go, excuse me, I don't get it. What are you saying? And as soon as I said it, three or four other people jumped in and went, yeah, I don't understand it either. So just dignity and simplicity. When you're trying to transfer thought, make sure the message you're delivering is what is being received.

You have given us another way forward. And those of you that are listening, if each of you can play the role of the dumbest guy in the meeting, which is. I do all the time. I listen to the people talking. I go, I raise my hand. It's like that movie big. Whoa. I don't understand. You know, help me understand. And I cannot tell you how many times I've seen very important people do a presentation, and everybody's sitting there writing on their cards like they understand what's going on. They don't. And no one's trying to acknowledge it. That's exactly right. So rather than stopping and saying, wait a minute, thank you so much for your information, what I heard you so far say was this, but I'm not getting it. Can you tell me a little more in the context of asking a question? We don't have to go, hey, idiot, we don't get it. Rather acknowledge the person, respond to that person respectfully, and tell them what you heard so far. This ability to build common understanding and make safe space is really what this acknowledgment and respectful response is all about. That was really magnificent, all three of you. Thank you for those pieces. So let's move forward just a little bit as you are listening to Connor in a conversation, when somebody's shoving ideas at you without any, you know, opportunity to interact or speak. Because this is really important to remember, conversation is the natural way we learn. And when Nicole was giving that example, there's no conversation. There's a one directional push of words at you. And Vince in your space, the ability to feel safe enough, you know, you can be brave and courageous, but it needs to be somewhat safe for everybody to be able to say the same thing. So as we move forward, let's just think for a moment what do you do personally to tap into your awareness when somebody that's speaking either annoys you or they've annoyed you in the past, or they're talking about something like. I don't think I want to talk about it. For example, if we have a conversation between a liberal person and a conservative person in this country right now, I think I already know what they're going to say and unfortunately I tune out. So my awareness has to be, oh, wait a minute, there may be something here for me to learn. And do I actually take the time to stop myself and get back into listening for understanding? Because I'll drift off then once I think that. So react to that a little bit. Tell me of a time when that may have happened to you in the future or even then, what did you do to spark your awareness so you came back to listening?

Sure, I can go ahead and weigh in on that one. My husband and I, we have a couple of friends that we spend a little bit of time doing some socializing, getting together and things of that nature. And to your point, Ray, we see things very differently on the political realm, I would say, you know, around family we see things very similarly, which is why they're our friends. However, I. Each time that we get together, I have a little self talk before we enter into those spaces. And we do our best to stay out of a political conversation, however many times it happens. Happened last weekend. Last weekend during that space, I checked myself because I knew my mental model is very, very strong about that topic. So I kind of talked myself and when I felt the emotions start to take over, I did. I knew that I needed to be quiet, so I paused. I listened to everything they said and then I asked a question. I didn't engage or offer my perspective. I thanked them for theirs and I said, tell me more. And that was it. I. Not once did I decide that I wanted to litigate the point or did I even offer my perspective because I knew that it would just get into kind of a. It wouldn't go well. So I do my very best when I feel emotion on someone else's end just to thank them for their perspective and inquire more about their perspective.

So that is really powerful stuff, what you just gave us. So your awareness, you had some pre awareness that these folks, I love them, but they, they don't see the world the same way I do. So you did some preparation in your own mind.

My suspicion is because you did that it created a level of awareness in you that when they tweak your particular mental model about whatever the issue is. You don't just react. And I love what you said. You said pause, but with a pause always comes a breath. Breathe, breathe. Take a deep breath. And then what you said, which I really loved, you acknowledge them and ask the question. Those of you that are listening, this is. I mean, how many times have you seen this? Two people are in this enormous argument. They are not listening to each other. They're just waiting for the other person to pause. So there is no acknowledgment, There is no respectful response. They just keep on going, trying to get their point across. Colleen, that was beautiful. Vince, what are you thinking here about this?

So what I'm thinking is that this is an ongoing learning experience. I don't think this is something that you as a leader can just say, this is what I'm going to do, incorporated practice, and it's automatic. Nicole mentioned that earlier. And so I have a personality type and I don't need all the information to make the decision, determination. I'm a 70, 30 guy. Give me 70% of information, I'm ready to pull the trigger. But sometimes when they're offering different points of views and perspectives, I know myself, so I have to remind myself to do a pause, acknowledge what I heard, respond respectfully, and then I have to be quiet and listen. I have to allow myself to receive the different points of view and give that information a chance to filter. And so it's something I try to do very deliberately because I know my propensity is to give me a certain amount of information and I want to go get it. So I have to slow myself down because of my personality traits. And I just have to be aware that knowledge and do what my colleagues suggested. And it has worked well thus far.

Notice the consistent use of the word aware. This is what happens when I get hijacked in a conversation or I get pissed off at something or I'm going to take something on, or even if I agree completely with the person, I begin to emote and. And emotionally connect to that particular set of sentences and just pile on. So this, this sense of awareness that you guys have given us is magnificent. Nicole, how about you? What do you do to kind of get ready to have this conversation?

Yeah. I reminded and thinking of a former colleague from years ago that I had developed some perceptions about. I didn't appreciate the way that she would talk down to our support staff. And I'd worked with her on a couple of and found that she was always trying to get out of really doing the work, but was very happy to take the credit. So I had some perceptions about the person. And whenever we would meet on future projects, I found myself just, like, feeling a sense of dread about meeting with her and having all of these thoughts and frustrations about working with this person. And I knew that that wasn't productive for me. And I wanted to shift the way that those conversations went so I wasn't, like, reacting to it every single time. So for me, what I wanted to do was when I needed to meet with this person, I would think of positive things about the individual. So ahead of time, before we met, I would put myself in a space where I was thinking about, well, she's super funny and kind to people outside of the context of working with her on a project. So I wanted to focus on that. And then for me, came back to what did I need to accomplish out of the meeting? I knew we need to partner and get these specific answers and really get clarity on my role and her role in that. So I tried to really focus on what was my mission, what was the thing that I needed to accomplish. And regardless of whatever I thought or the opinions about her personally, I wanted to come back to what was positive and what did I need to accomplish. So that helps me to stay in.

The moment, to stay in the moment and be with the person. This, all this work we're talking about, if we simply acknowledge and respond respectfully, I come back and be present again because it was important for me to listen. I can't really acknowledge and respond respectfully because I have nothing to acknowledge because my mind was racing with, this person is not helpful. This person is annoying. Whatever the pet peeve is, why doesn't Connor recognize how cool it is here? Whatever the pet peeve is, you drift away into that pet peeve, into that place that is a mental model about either a human being or an idea. To Vince's point, either one of those will pull you out of the conversation and make you no longer present. And all of this is about how can I develop my own personal awareness so I can stay in the conversation right now, not later, right now. So this little tool, and I don't care if you call it a tool, a discipline, or whatever, it is a practice that consistently pulls you back into the conversation. To Vince's point, he made me think about something and I went back to listening, so I lost it, but it just came back again. By the way, this will happen to you if you practice this. I've been saying for a long time now, disciplined Practice produces growth, not perfection. Disciplined practice produces growth. And if you've noticed on this call today, the podcast that you're listening to, each time someone has spoken, either they have acknowledged one another or I have acknowledged them. I don't think we've responded in any way other than with great respect, because we unconditionally love one another on this call. So we know who we are, and we care about each other deeply. It is important to remind ourselves those in our care we need to care for unconditionally. And sometimes the person that has the strangest response to whatever it is we're working on may give us an opening to go forward. What did you guys just hear me say? And what are you thinking right now, Finn? Start with you?

Yeah. So you talked about standing a moment, but what really stuck out to me was how you have to care for the people around you. That goes a long way. And when you're listening and open, receptive to all of the voices in the room, sometimes a surprising thing may happen. The most unexpected place or person may provide the most important or salient opening, if you will, a window that helps the team get to the end state that you see.

Okay, that's really cool. So why is it cool? For me, it's cool because you just made the case. If you respond with respectful, unconditional care, you respond to people as though they matter. Something happens to the space. Not only are you present, it pulls them into the conversation with you. And even now, just listening to one another, you should see this. If you're watching this on YouTube, you can see it. Their eyes are wide open. They're leaned in. They want to talk about this. This is like an important thing. Colleen, how about you? What are you thinking in the moment?

What I'm thinking in the moment is how this acknowledging and responding respectfully in a team setting really creates connectivity and relevance to the point, you know, it's. People always talk about, oh, well, you know, I'm not feeling connected. You know, I've got people on my team, especially in the virtual environment, and I just feel like that we're all in our own space. And so to me, sometimes it's the consistent and simple use of these things. Because I've been in calls when people go, oh, Colleen, what do you think? I offer my thinking crickets. Then they pull the conversation to the next topic, and I'm over here going, well, damn, if you didn't want to hear what I had to say, why do I even bother saying anything? And then guess what? I do in the next call, I lean back and I don't offer my thinking. And I say, good luck, boys, because I'm not part of this. Right? Because I didn't feel like I was acknowledged. I didn't feel like I was connected. And then there's you kind of lean back now. We're not having a collaborative conversation. We are operating on our individual thinking and we're missing out. We're missing out on the wisdom from the group. So I would just build upon what Vince had to say is you really want to develop this safe space. Why? It sounds like bullshit. I don't need to do that. Really? That safe space will produce quality results.

Yeah. The greater the quality of the relationship, the greater the results.

We've demonstrated that the literature says it.

And what we're offering to you that.

Are listening or watching this YouTube video here is how you do it. Just like I just did for Colleen and for the other people that have been speaking. This is not hard. It just requires intentionality and some discipline to keep it up over time.

What are you thinking, Nicole?

I'm thinking it's just so magical how as the leader, sometimes we feel like we have to have all of the answers and all of the information and be the person that delivers that to the team. But what's really magical is when you start the conversation. Letting people get there on their own can have such a really beautiful effect. And as you turn the conversation over to those individuals and they build upon the ideas that have been shared, it gets to that place where Colleen said that wisdom surfaces in the room. And it may surface things like you said, Ray, that we never would have imagined we might be really missing something if we don't give people that opportunity to find their own meaning in the conversation. So I think that's just really, really.

Powerful for me, that is magnificent in this level also. Sometimes people struggle to find their voice in a meeting and they can find their voice in the parking lot or on their one on one zoom call with the people after the meeting's over, or, you know, or go upstairs and complain to my partner or my dog about how things are going. And that voice is missing in the meeting. So the incredible capabilities that can come out of that extra voice.

Get lost.

This is really good. So I'm going to do a kind of a different kind of closeout, and I'm going to ask you, what does acknowledging and respectful response sound like to you? Either when you practice it or you hear somebody practice it on you. What does it sound like now, really? Ladies, and, gentlemen, you can use your own voice for this. It's not our voice. It's your voice that matters. But I'm going to give you a few examples of what this sounds like in the practice of having a conversation or in hosting or facilitating or leading a meeting. So what does acknowledging and respectful response sound like? And really, the best thing is for each of you. Just tell me. This is what it sounds like to me. Dench, why don't you start?

Okay, so thinking. If I'm in a meeting and I propose a question, I lay a question out to my leadership team and I may ask a question, a provocation. Hey, listen, I'm really, really struggling with this or would like some feedback on this. Now, I'd like to go around the room and ask each of you for your insight and your input to help us solve this issue. And I would wait patiently for each one of my people to give me their thought and share their thinking at the moment. And as such, I would be very conscious to pay attention to what they're saying and to equally tell them what I thought I heard you say. Okay, listen, what I heard you say was. And I thank them for sharing that opinion. Doesn't matter if it's something I agree with or disagree with, but I thank them for putting that on the table and giving us something to consider. So that's what it looks like in action to me.

Oh, I love it. This is what I heard you say. And oh, my God, Vince, that is like when you acknowledge somebody by repeating in your own words what you heard them say. That's a powerful acknowledgement. Beautifully stated. Nicole, how about you? What's it sound like?

I think for me, it sounds like building on the idea. So if I bring forward an idea or get excited about something, I really appreciate when someone else also leans in and is excited about what I've shared or said and maybe builds on it or also kind of matches that emotion, gets excited about it.

Yeah.

Like what I heard you say, Nicole, was this. And it made me think about blank. See what I mean? It's not hard. It's simply just listening and getting the opportunity to appreciate, acknowledge, and respond respectfully when someone speaks. Colleen, what's it sound like?

So, Nicole, thank you so much for offering your idea. I see that slightly differently. So I'm wondering if you'd be open to listening to an alternative perspective.

I love it. See the way she just laid it on the table? This is what I heard you say. Did I get that right? Yes, you did, Colleen.

And okay, if you don't mind, I.

Would really love to offer another perspective about what you said. All of a sudden, acknowledgment, respectful response.

Opens the door to more thinking, and.

Sometimes not the thinking that you started with.

I mean, the best meeting that Vince ever ran brought him to a new conclusion at the end of the meeting because he was pulling that collective wisdom into him. Fantastic. Fantastic. Okay, we have come to the end of this podcast, and I cannot tell you how grateful I am to Nicole, Vince, and Colleen for putting up with this particular push into the space, because this is so important for people to hear it and see it modeled. For those of you listening. Thank you so much. Let me do a quick checkout with the gang. I loved everything you did around pet Peeves. You know, so in love with my son. I struggled to, you know, how can I talk with him? How can I make sure that my voice isn't the only voice that's heard in a meeting? Ben's beautiful. And, Nicole, how listening to a something, a seminar, webinar, whatever the hell it is, where there's no stopping. Right. That does something to us. So from your vantage point, what resonated most for you in this conversation today? Colleen, what got you the most?

I think what got me the most is how it can be simple. We want to produce desired results. We want to create a space where it's safe for people to offer their thinking. And you know what? We do it every single meeting, every single, single time, every single day. It's not that difficult. You need to be, to Vince's point, intentional. So I think that's the biggest thing that rises in me is people wait around, like, I got to take another training on building trust. I mean, I think that's a. It's. No, I think that's a bunch of bullshit. It can be very, very simple. And you can start right now by acknowledging and responding respectfully.

And I'm.

That's beautiful.

Beautiful.

Thank you for your app. Vince resonated most with you, my friend.

Yeah. So with me, I think what stood out, if you look at our personalities, we're all very different, and we all practice the work. And so the way that I may take, you know, communicate my approach to it may be a little bit different than the way Colleen or Nicole does it, and that's okay. What's important is that you understand the tool, if you will, and that you use it. Not that you have to speak the way I speak or speak the way Ray speaks. And so I just listen to us today talk about these same topics. And I pull things from my colleagues by taking their perspective and their approach to it. I take some things and add it to my personality type, and the rest I leave on the table. And so that's what resonated with me today. Just it's okay to do it in your own methodology, your own originality or genuineness. And with that, I'm out.

That's excellent. Thank you, Vince.

Ms. Nicole I think I'm really holding on to this idea of what might I be missing when I'm not asking the question, when I'm not opening up the space, when I'm not truly present and acknowledging and responding respectfully to those that I'm speaking with in any setting. As we talked about our kids and Colleen, you shared your story about your son, thinking about what am I missing when I'm not practicing that with the people that I truly care about? I'm out. Thank you.

So it would be interesting to see us, the four of us, in a conversation and not have any knowledge of this practice, not have any knowledge of what it looks like to have an everyday Leadership conversation. I don't know what that would look like. They'd probably be fun for someone else to watch, but I don't know that we would get anywhere in terms of accomplishing the intended outcomes. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening. You guys are wonderful for popping in again on one of our podcasts. I sure hope you enjoyed it. This is JLC Media Everyday Leadership Conversations. Find out more on gojlc.com hope you all do well and are doing well moving forward. Thank you so much for attending.

Sincerest thanks for listening to this episode of the Everyday Leadership Conversations podcast. The Jorgensen Learning center offers a variety of programs for individuals and organizations to enhance their communication and leadership skills. To find out more about programs and upcoming webinars, check out our events page@gojlc.com.