Data Conversations: Telling the Story Behind the Data

Hi, everybody. My name is Ray. This is Vince and Colleen. We've been doing a series of podcasts supporting a larger webinar that we did about data fluency and data literacy. So we've reached, really, I think, the final one, but we'll see how the conversation goes. They may choose to do another one when we're done. So the intent today and the reason why we're doing that is kind of pull together the six steps that we gave you in the webinar. And the final step is, how do you engage in a data conversation? Our position. That's just our position doesn't mean it's right position. It's. Our position is we need to tell a story. Tell the story that the data elicits from me so that we can then engage in a conversation with the people that we just told the story to. The conversation is so important because it expands the quality of the relationship and obviously then the results. So this is going to be an example of tell the story that I have, a real life story, and let my colleagues weigh in on what they took from that story, because we are, let's assume the three of us are working in a school district, helping leaders learn about the difference between reaction and responsiveness. So, anyway, that's where we're going to go in this one. So, Colleen, what are you hearing me say?

What I'm hearing you say is that we're going to talk today about data conversations. And one of the ways that you can hold a data conversation is by using story. And so I'm really looking forward to really learning and sharing with our audience. What are some of those key things that they can do to help people get that picture of the data versus just their own individual understanding of what's unfolding?

Excellent. Thank you. Thank you, Vince. Something more?

No, I hear pretty much the same thing. But what really caught my attention was using stories as a way to help us understand reaction versus responding and how telling that picture really helps people around you interpret and infers individual meaning, which you know, which can drive a common understanding within the team. So I'm excited as well to see how you can really tell powerful stories that make connections and help people respond vice react.

Excellent. And what I'd like the two of you to do is wear a very hat that you've worn many times is a collaborative hat. First, I'm going to tell you a story, and then the three of us are going to collaborate about what happened and what are some things we can learn from that story, and then we will Go from there. So I think we're good to go. Whenever you guys say go, I'm going to go ahead and tell you a story.

Let's hear it.

Once upon a time, I was employed by a school district to help them deal with, help the superintendent and the leadership team work with one of the principals. This district did lots of climate surveys all year long. They would do two or three, almost one a quarter, and some days, sometimes four if they were worried about someone. So they did a couple of story, a couple of data sets, and they pulled in the data set and what they learned from the climate survey was that one of the principals, the particular one we're supposed to work with, the three of us supposed to work with, has very low visibility. He's just not around. So here's what happened. This individual, we'll call him Mr. Beagle, decided after he talked to his direct report, his superintendent said, you're just not visible. You're not out there. And when I look at your climate surveys, it says you're not a visible leader. And how can people, you know, assumption. How can people really report to you and respect you and trust you if you don't see them? So I want you to think about this data set here and the fact that you're getting low marks on visibility. Well, of course, you know, he's a relatively new principle, not yet tenured, and he took that advice that he received from his superintendent, which was an interpretation of the data set that his major problem is he's just not visible. Well, for the next 90 days, he went into every classroom every day. He was so exhausted at the end of every day, he could barely move. He never really. And when he went into the classroom, here's what he did. He would show up, he would go into the classroom, he would check off his box that he was in Classroom 201 at such and such a time, and then he would leave. Then he would go next door and go into that classroom. Okay, check. I was in that classroom. And he did this day after day after day for 90 days. And what do you think happened to the data set about his visibility as the leader? It remained flat. They still believed that he was not visible as the leader of that schoolhouse. The end. Tell me, how does that story land on you? Who'd like to go first?

So I guess I'll start. That's pretty. No, I can see that story happening and unfolding because sometimes people take data and they rely on it as a fact in and of itself. But what they've not done is take an opportunity to understand what are they trying to achieve by obtaining a climate survey. What's the goal of the survey? And then once you receive data, you also have to realize that data is just a snapshot at that moment in time and space. And so then what? So what next? I didn't hear anything about the next steps other than just taking raw data and making it and inferring an interpretation of what that means from the individual superintendent's perspective. And that interpretation had costly impacts. I mean, it wastes a lot of time. It didn't fix the issue. It didn't allow the team to address the issue. But that's the risk with data. A lot of organizations, a lot of people take data at face value and they run with it without even understanding, what is this for? So as I listened to that, I thought, that's such a travesty, as you were telling us what a horrible, horrible, horrible use of data with pretty bad negative outcomes. Okay, those are my initial thoughts.

And something that you've taught me and taught both Colleen and myself is that whatever my boss is interested in, I am fascinated by. So here's my boss interested in my data set, my climate server that says I'm not visible. So I walk away, go, okay, boss, I will take care of this. And he came up with a way to take care of it. He did not go back down the ladder to even ask any questions and be curious about. I wonder what they really mean by not visible. Colleen, how'd that land on you?

Yeah, I think one thing that resonated with me, Vincent, it reminded me, aligning the data toward the outcome. We chatted about that. I think that was one of our very first podcasts in this series. That was one thing absolutely is. What does that really mean to be visible? And what is the outcome we're looking to achieve? But I think that story really highlights this human element of interpretation of data and the importance of having these data conversations, because that gentleman interpreted it through his own lens. That data created it, formatted it, created information. And then he went out and he applied that particular data set to the best of his ability. That application resulted in a checklist of, yeah, was he visible? However, that really wasn't my understanding, at least from my perspective, of what that superintendent was really, really intending him to shift, and perhaps those teachers as well. But I think the data is there for a reason, and if we don't pause to really think about the outcome and the application of it, we're going to miss the mark.

Okay? Well said. So who do you think my client really needed to be in that mess? Superintendent.

Yeah.

And so I ended up taking all of the material that he had on this particular individual, and they were really ready to just cut him loose and say, okay, you're not going to get Tanner here. You need to go somewhere else. And as I had the deeper conversation with my superintendent friend, he was like, well, okay, well, now he was visible, though. He went in all the classrooms. He showed me, gave me a list of all the classrooms he went to, but they're still unhappy. Well, the real question then is, is it just this one little piece of the data set that says visibility, or is there something about visibility that mattered? So how about you each go back to your leader roles? It was important for you to be visible. What else was important when you were showing up to be visible?

Well, I think I can share that. I think it was. It was to engage in conversations. Because when we're there in the room with our people walking around, if we don't pause and engage them in conversations as the leader, how am I going to learn what's really going on in the schoolhouse or what's really going on in the organization if I don't pause and have a conversation, and I mean inquire and give those people that I lead the opportunity to share information with me.

Now it's almost like, okay, I get your data set. And it was my first conversation with the superintendent. Here's your data set about, you know, Mr. Beagle. And Mr. Beagle, it says is not visible. And that's what you gave him, your interpretation of the data was that he's not visible. And that's why he's getting this particular ding on the climate survey. And once you lay that on the table, you simply said to him, you need to take care of this. Well, then he by himself, went off and created his own ladder and came to a conclusion about what he needed to do to be visible. So the idea of curiosity was not in the conversation at that point. It was simply, I understand you're upset with me. I understand my visibility is a problem. I'm running up my ladder to make a decision, a conclusion. Right. And then in action and advocate for the fact that I'm going to go into every classroom every day, no one's ever going to say I'm not visible. Since you got any reaction to that?

Yeah, I guess in my experience, what I found to be very helpful was to look. It's natural to read information, to see some data. Particularly this got Your name on it, and to want to react to it. But to get the team had a visibility, you have to be able to sit down and take a moment, pause, and get the team together and go, hey, listen, here is the information that's been shared, and here are the thoughts and perception of the men and women who work here. I need your help, folks, so that we can interpret this and understand this, so we can get to what the people really want and what they need and how we can make it better. I will lead that. I will own that. I am accountable to you for that. But I can't do it without your help. And so, you know, I just as I thought about that, you're right. This. The superintendent came to a conclusion, the principal came to a conclusion, but not once was there a thought to bring the team together, the teachers and the people who kind of put the data together to understand what did that mean to the collective so that we can move out smartly.

So you just did it. And we're having a data conversation right now. And what we're inviting all of you to do is when you get a data set, is come to your own, do interpretive. We expect you to come to your own conclusion and what you think that Mr. Beagle should do moving forward. I get it. At the same time, Vince and Colleen have teed up this incredible need for the principal, Mr. Beagle, to talk to his leadership team and say, look, this is something that the boss and the cabinet are seeing as a problem for me in my leadership here at this schoolhouse. I'm wondering what we could do about this. All of a sudden, to notice the data and wondering what we could do about changes everything, because now we have a reflective conversation. So notice all of the pieces of the work that we do in building an organization that has its best self show up every day. Right? Best self we just looked at. What's my aspiration? I aspire to be seen as a visible leader, connected and engaged with my people. Conversation is the relationship. So if I'm just running around the room, looking in every room and then going to the next one all day long, I'm not engaging with anybody. I'm just moving along. The second piece that I thought you both did a beautiful job with is reflection is always personal, and it's even more powerful when it's collective. If the teams got together and talked about, what do these data mean to us, I really feel like we have an opportunity in our own work to help people notice their conclusions based on the data sets that they get and invite them to be curious and creative as they talk with people about what are those data and how do they land on you, how do they impact you, how do they shift your thinking and eventually your behaving. So you two were wonderful on this. This is a powerful piece. A final thought before we go to a checkout. Vince or Colleen.

Yeah. I just want to add a little bit to what you just said. Usually the data is there to demonstrate, to support a change or a shift. Right. It's a snapshot, as Vince mentioned, and many times from that, then we all gather up and say, okay, well, what about this change initiative? And what about this? Then we start to formulate these new initiatives or changes that need to go the system. And I think this data conversation, the importance of collective reflection, many times is skipped, which unfortunately does a couple of things. It has unintended consequences because, A, I don't enroll my team into this potential change initiative. Right. Because I'm not getting their input. And because I'm not getting their input, it's going to. It won't have. It'll be missing data. Right. It'll be faulty because I'm not developing a common understanding of the data and the information to inform these, you know, these courses of action that we're going to implement.

Sure. This is so beautifully said, Colleen. Very often we get into a conversation with ourselves and we project that conversation onto the next group rather than really suspending certainty and saying, okay, I have an interpretation. I wonder if we have that same interpretation in this room. And then, okay, we should make a change. Maybe. I'm not sure. This is, again, the work of leadership. It's experimental in nature. We have a condition that we think is somewhat problematic to us in terms of developing our leadership presence on campus. I'm wondering, is it just I show up every day or is there something else? Is there something else? All of a sudden, a reflective conversation with a team has those two edges. Curiosity and creativity. That was beautiful, Colleen. Vince, what are you thinking?

The only other thing I would add to this conversation is the importance of, you know, Colleen talked about the importance of getting that team, that team input. In a lot of times, leaders don't do it. In addition to that, you have to develop, I believe, committed actions from the team on what we're going to do to move forward. And then you have to continue to check in. A lot of people get busy and they'll take this data, they'll do something, they're going to put something in place, and then you kind of move on and you're doing other things as if you never come back. And it's important to periodically check in to let the team know that I heard you and here's where we are today. We're not at 75%, we're at a 30% solution, but we're continuing to drive because we hear you, you know, check in. A few months later, here we are, folks, we're at 75% and this is what you said. Are we still moving in the right direction? Is this still what we need to do? So the getting the committed actions on in writing and then the periodic check ins really help the team remain aligned towards the stated outcomes. I just think that's the important part that I want to add to the conversation.

No, it's a huge piece and this constant, I love this, constantly closing the loop on the. That if we don't keep doing that then it's almost like I envision, okay, we have a change initiative because of this interesting data that came from the climate survey. So we're going to throw it on a raft and we're going to do what we think we should do with that raft. Right. So we designed the raft which is show up every day in the classrooms and we push it away from the shore and it starts to float downstream but no one pulls the raft back in again to say, how you doing there out there? Is your stuff actually working? So, and again, I hope that all of you listening recognize metaphors, similes, analogies. Storytelling is the language of leadership. Whether the data set informs the story or the human condition forms the story. Storytelling is one of the key characteristics of an effective leader. So ladies and gentlemen, this has been wonderful. Thank you so much for being with us. I think you kind of heard the checkout already, so I'll stop there unless you guys want to say something else to our audience.

It's been fun, fun series.

I just think it's just ensure that you pause and think about the data set that you're going to be sharing with others.

Yeah, sometimes people just put everything on the wall and then everybody's like, I don't know what that all means to me. Here's your dash. Thank you. Now what does that mean to me? Because that, that's not me. That's something other than me. Although I have contributed to that particular number. That was really good. Vince, anything left?

No, it was. This was fun, man. I enjoyed this segment and this series.

Me too. I enjoy both of you so much because you make the, you make it so much fun to do the work because I, I told kind of a. A little story and look where the story went. So as you see a data set and you tell the story that the data set what means what it means to you, what that data set means to me in story form, it sets the stage for a data conversation. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for being with us today. Hope you had some enjoyment. We look forward to seeing you on the next podcast and certainly the next webinar. Take care.

Sincerest thanks for listening to this episode of the Everyday Leadership Conversations podcast. The Jorgensen Learning center offers a variety of programs for individuals and organizations to enhance their communication and leadership skills. To find out more about programs and upcoming webinars, check out our events page@gojlc.com.