Inside JLC: Adaptive Leadership 1 - Look from the Balcony

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for being with us today. This is a JLC Media and it's a podcast that backs up the webinar that we produced last month and what we promised the audience that we would do, and we received feedback that that would be a really good thing for you to do is to take the behaviors from the adaptive leadership piece and talk about those behaviors in a little more detail. So just to review what we did, we talked about the difference between technical problems and adaptive challenges and how very often in leadership those things get stuck together. There are some simple examples like, okay, I have high blood pressure. What should I do? I can go to a subject matter expert, and that subject matter expert is my physician who will then prescribe a drug or some kind of, you know, pharmaceutical that will reduce my blood pressure. That is a technical solution to a technical problem. However, my doctor, who I really enjoyed, chose to look at that as an adaptive challenge and said, let's just lose some weight. Let's shift your eating practices. And I think we may actually receive the same successful result as, as a result of you responding to this by adapting your lifestyle. So that's probably, in my mind, that's a pretty good example of a technical problem conflated with an adaptive challenge. Now I had much more responsibility in the adaptive challenge because I needed to change my lifestyle for something to happen differently. It would have been easy just to take the drug. Subject matter expert says take the drug. So today we're going to talk about one of the six behaviors that help you see the differences between technical and adaptive challenges. Vince, what are you hearing me say and what's resonating with you right now?

Yeah. So thank you, Ray, for the invitation in. So I heard you use a pretty good illustration of what could be most people could really see as an adaptive solution or a challenge that's identified compared to a technical. In your example, you talked about having something wrong. Seeing your physician, he gives you a drug, a very linear process. But is that the real issue? The symptom is you have these symptoms. He's treating that well. What's the issue? The issue is more adaptive. We need to make some systematic changes in behavior or style that really lead you to an alternate outcome. And sometimes that even takes a little bit longer to build. And so what was resonating with me was that contrast between doing something on the short term for short term fix, or recognizing a culture or systems change that can really change the outcome of what.

That's absolutely. So thank you, Vince. So we are in the process of developing another set of podcasts about systems archetypes. And right now, Vince laid one on the table. We have a problem, and we can do a problematic fix. We can do a symptomatic fix is the same thing that has some strange unintended consequences. But that's another conversation. But he did that beautifully. And there are people in my life that I have worked with that have retired, Putting out fires, that was their whole deal. And I'm not at all denigrating that behavior. Not at all. Fire is burning. Put fire out. And if we have some way to see a little bit broader, maybe there are some adaptive challenges conflated with the technical problems that we're seeing. That was really brilliant. Thank you, Colleen.

Yeah, I think just listening to you and Vince kind of close the loop, what immediately came to my mind was think about how many students are prescribed, you know, or told their diagnosis, adhd, take a pill, you know, and so. And not saying that. That many of them don't need that. However, it's quick and easy for me just to say, little Johnny's not listening in class. Boom, take him to the doctor. Here you go. And move forward. Technical. Right? Technical response and technical versus really peeling back that onion and finding out what's going on at home.

Right.

What's.

What's.

What's really perhaps underneath this, in this, you know, kind of different type of behavior or is inability to focus. So that's kind of where I went, because I think that it happens all the time, way more than we probably even recognize.

Yeah. So of course, that has been my school life forever and ever about seeing those distinctions. I had one youngster that the parent was absolutely sure the kid needed to be on a particular drug because of their adhd. And I said, well, tell me about the kids. You know, what's the afternoon like for this kid? What happens when they get home from school? Oh, they get on the computer right away. They play their games, they start texting. They start. So the kid actually was building most of his after school hours and before school hours, believe it or not, distracting himself with all these things that were out there. So what I finally came to with that mom was this guy may have been developing a skill set around distracting himself. Maybe we could talk a little bit more about there's some other things we could do. I'm not saying don't take the drug. I'm saying let's look at lifestyle a little bit more. So I love the way both of you kind of pulled that back into this particular framework. So Today there are six behaviors that Heifetz and Lenski recommended that we get good at as leaders in order to start seeing the technical problems and potential adaptive solutions. And at the next one, we're going to actually talk about how do we better identify the adaptive challenge that's out there. So for now we're just going to talk a little bit about the first behavior and how it might actually lead to identifying the adaptive challenge. It's kind of what our colleagues said we probably could do. Let's find out. So the very first behavior that's recommended by the folks who produce this whole idea of adaptive leadership is to get on the balcony. So in my little short example that I gave you, when my blood pressure went up, for whatever reason, I resisted the medicine and my partner, my bride Ruby, and I started to talk about my lifestyle and what I might be doing or not doing. And the only way to do that was to take a pause because I'm on the dance floor working and running all day long, doing all my stuff, right? And I'm on the dance floor doing that. I'm bumping elbows with everybody and I'm running around and until we could actually stop and we actually went to dinner to do this stop and talk about what my day to day life was like and how that might be contributing to this malady. That's an opportunity to go from the dance floor, running around, doing, doing, doing, doing, and step up to the balcony and look down and watch Ray in a daily dance and how that daily dance might be affecting me. So that's my example of the balcony. And I'm wondering if you guys first, what did you hear? And can you add your own ex?

Sure, I'll close the loop on that. What I'm hearing you say, Ray, is that there's a difference between doing your life your day to day and being on the dance floor is when you're, that's when you're living, right? You are living your day to day and you are doing all of those things that you love to do and that you need to do. And so how can you, if you really want to be adapted, how can you really open your aperture or widen your understanding of what's really going on on that dance floor. Because if you don't pause, reflect and try and open your perspective, you're just going to see this part, right? And you're only going to see it from, you know, what it is you're doing on your day to day versus pausing to really get a deeper and a more open I guess I would say understanding a broader understanding of what's going on. And I think that balcony allows you to reflect and look down from that different perspective.

You know what I think about in my world of coaching? In my early years coaching, I didn't see the field okay. I saw the kids individually and what they were doing. Were they following my instructions? Were they actually playing the defense I asked them to play? It wasn't until I had a very good friend and mentor who said, ray, there's more going on on the floor than you're seeing. How is that possible? I'm right here with him. I see it. And my vision was pretty narrow. And until this, my mentor, and we've lost him now. His name was Yui. He gave me so much perspective about what was happening, and he kind of just sat with me and brought me up on the balcony so I could look down on that dance floor, which at that time was a basketball court. And I was missing so much stuff. It was just stunning. You know, that kid's just not quick enough or can't go left. Those are technical problems. And that wasn't. It was how the entire team was interacting offensively and defensively. I had adaptive challenges and didn't know it. That was great, Colleen. Thank you for surfacing that inside of me. Vince, what are you thinking?

So as I listened to the two of you have that conversation, I was actually just reflecting and just trying to say to myself, well, what does that actually look like in practice from a personal example? So if you let me try to tee this up, I want to share with you something that I experienced and how I thought that looked so like you. I had a very good mentor named Matt Palmer. He would sit with me as I was developing once a week. We would sit every Friday, and we would just talk about what was I learning for the week and what was I experiencing. And he would share his ability, where he was looking tactically and where he had to shift his focus and look more adaptively on top of the balcony. And so when I became a leader, I tried to carry that into my sphere of leadership. And so I had an interesting situation happen at the command. Short version is I knew that I wanted to influence culture, and I liked. I thought leadership was. I wanted to be in tune at the deck plates. I wanted to be down and out talking to the people, but I had to be very careful that I didn't confuse my. When I'm down in that space, that I didn't lose sight of being up on the balcony and Looking across my organization. But I noticed that to influence culture with cleanliness, I thought that we were a little sloppy. So a technique that I learned from my mentor, I would walk around the command and I would take cards and I would write, if you find this, come, come and see me. And I would ball it up and I would throw it in the corners in different places around the organization. And people will find these cards. And they would come to my office and go, sir, I found this card. It says to come and see you. And I said, absolutely. And I would buy that individual a cup of coffee and thank them profusely for what they have done. It seemed like something that was very minimal, but what it ultimately did was it transformed the culture of the organ. Because a couple of months in, I had people walking around all the time looking to keep the place clean and to influence behaviors. And because I just had that, I remembered that lesson I learned from my mentor. The importance of standing across. And if you want to influence the organization, you have to look across. How do you want to influence that change? I did go down technically and do some things, some technical things, but I did it with an adaptive outcome and response in mind. So as you guys were talking, I was thinking about that real life example that I experienced.

Say that the brilliance in that, together with your mentor, what you unfolded. I can walk around any organization and with a notepad and note things. Here's where we get in trouble. We react to that moment and we actually say, this is what you should do differently. And you said it, Vince. It's a tactic. Yeah. Stop doing that. Do this right. And probably that's a good solution. That's a nice. That's a technical solution. Stop doing this. Do that. That's because you had some authority and you had some subject matter expertise about what was going on. If we don't have that. And I loved your Friday afternoon conversation, which is your balcony conversation, to get up on the balcony and say, here are the things I learned to notice this week out on the deck plate. I'm wondering if you're seeing something similar. Boy, that. That opens. And I love the phraseology both of you use. Opens the aperture, allows you to go on the balcony and watch the dance happen. Did this with a surgeon one time about the operating room where he was frustrated with the operating room. He's in there doing his thing. And if something wasn't going the way it should, as the. You know how that works. If you're the surgeon in the or, you're absolutely in charge, you're God in that room, stop doing that, do this, fix that, do that. And they would never, ever did they do any kind of huddle beforehand or a powerful debrief. So he was unable to see all of the variables affecting that operating room. It could be something as simple as, my kid was up all night with a toothache. I didn't sleep at all. I'm going to do my best, but I want to make sure that, you know, stay with me on this operation. Little things that have great power in this environment to give us the perspective necessary, the wider view. So I think in order to adapt, even identify an adaptive challenge, I think Vince and Colleen did that beautifully. I won't see an adaptive challenge if I keep fixing technical problems, because I'll keep going around fixing this, fixing that. And at the end of the day, I go, good job, and I go home. Because what I spent the day doing, putting out fires until you get up on that balcony, we really almost get stuck in coming back to our subject matter expertise rather than recognizing this could be an adaptive challenge. And I may need the wisdom of the deck plate, the wisdom in the room, the wisdom of all that we serve in order to chase down this adaptive challenge. What you guys did today was absolutely magnificent. To set the stage for the next part of this, when we come back, I'll do a quick review of this. Let's get on the balcony. Might even do one more example to remind ourselves of that and recognize that when I'm on the balcony, I want to be able to see the distinction on that dance floor between technical problems that need to be resolved. Right. And adaptive challenges. I love the way Linsky and Heifetz say this. He said one of the greatest challenges of leadership is people don't either don't see the difference between those two, or they conflate them into one major issue or major problem. You guys were fantastic today. Let's close out with this. Given this idea of broadening the space and finding an opportunity to get on the balcony, what's one thing you would say to our listeners? And thank you listeners for being with us. We're so grateful. What's one thing you would say to them? Because I will remind you of something I said on the webinar. This is parenting. Adaptive leadership is parenting. And so many times we don't realize that what we're doing is. There is a technical solution to a lot of parent child issues or parenting issues. It typically is adaptive challenges. And it changes as the kids get older. You know, when the kid's 2 years old. I'm not going to let them play in the street and get hit by a car. So he learns his lesson. I'm going to say, get out of the street. Go on that and make some big statement about it. See, that's a technical problem with a technical solution. When puberty hits and they start to see themselves in reference to the other kids they hang out with, because that's when that happens, right? That's an adaptive challenge to help that youngster understand how to interact effectively with peers with kids around the same age and still achieve what they want. Technical problems, adaptive solutions. Gotta get on the balcony. Colleen, what would you tell the gang that's listening?

I would just say that, you know, we talked a lot about, you know, when we're kind of dealing, they're conflated and we're dealing with them as a technical problem or an adaptive solution. Sometimes it's both, right? Sometimes not either or. And it might be a blend. So I just encourage everyone, as you really start to pause and reflect, because I think that is the key piece in this, is to recognize, am I looking at this issue just from a small perspective, or do I need to pause and just take a step back and maybe, as Vince did, do I need to chat with another parent? Do I need to chat with somebody who I really respect so I can get a broader understanding of the problem before I start to jump in and solve it and I'm out.

I think that's beautiful. That's just beautiful. And your sensibility there. And, you know, so again, I can never thank Vince enough for his service. But when he was a commanding officer, he had two people shoulder to shoulder with him. His XO and Commandmaster Chief. And in the Chief world, and I've heard CMCs tell me this everywhere, my job is to let the boss know. Know what's going on on the deck plate. From the perspective of the working sailor, I just. I just think that sensibility is strong and big. And you just kind of laid it out again. So the big part is we conflate technical problems and adaptive challenges, and we call them one issue. I've actually seen it in meetings. We're going to work on this issue today. And I'm sitting there going, man, you got. You have the all. All kinds of technical problems and adaptive challenges inside the issue you just laid on the table. If we cannot get on the balcony and deconstruct those technical problems and adaptive challenges, so we can see the distinction, it's going to feel like we had a good Meeting, but nothing much is going to change. Vince, what would you tell the listeners?

Yeah, I think you guys really hit it on the head, man. The only thing I could highlight again is the importance of not eating your own dog food, so to speak. You know, don't think that you have the right solution. And you have to. You know, sometimes, man, we. We know. We know what it feels like, but we don't necessarily know the terms. And it's okay not to know the terms adaptive and technical and know it by words, but you have to understand what's happening around you. So the reflection piece is important, but the other key, important component to me is being humble enough to create a safe space, man, to really get the feedback that you need. You need people to feel comfortable and safe around you, to tell what they're seeing and getting that honest. Land those issues on the table so that you can see it together so you don't have to fix it by yourself. You just have to be open to receive the wisdom of the team and your key leader so that you can get there. And I'm out.

Okay. Not sure I can say that any better. That was magnificent. And, you know, we all love Brene Brown today. How do we practice this? Vulnerability, openness, psychologically safe space. That's the work that we do here at jlc. That is the stuff we bring outbound to people that are interested, that would like to lead in a slightly different way. And probably, in our opinion, I think Vince and Colleen will probably nod at this a more effective way. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for being with us today. We have enjoyed doing this particular webinar about adaptive leadership, and I hope you enjoyed this very first section on as a leader. How do I get on that balcony, and why should I? I think both those questions got answered today from our perspectives. Your homework is to think about how do I get on the balcony as a mom, as a dad, as a sibling, as a caregiver, as a leader. Whatever position you're in, the chance to recognize the differences between technical problems and adaptive challenges. It lives on the balcony. That's the place we can really clarify what's going on. Next time, we're going to talk about how the balcony helps us identify which one's really adaptive and how many do we have and which one looks like something we can tap into people's wisdom to truly begin a pathway forward. Great having you here today. Thank you so much for being with us here at JLC. You can find us@gojlc.com and if you'd like to talk to Vince or Colleen or me. You have the opportunity. You had a 30 minute absolutely on U.S. discovery conversation. I love it when I had one guy call and said what the hell is the difference between these things? I'm confused. So am I. I'm learning this work with you. I don't want to act as though I know everything. I'm learning the work with you. I want to be a learning leader. I invite you all to think about what that might look like. Looking forward to next time when we talk about doing our best to identify the adaptive challenge. Take care ladies and gentlemen. See you again. Sincerest thanks for listening to this episode of the Everyday Leadership Conversations podcast. The Jorgensen Learning center offers a variety of programs for individuals and organizations to enhance their communication and leadership skills. To find out more about programs and upcoming webinars, check out our events page@gojlc.com.