Inside JLC: Adaptive Leadership 6: Protecting the Voices of Leadership from Below

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for being with us here at JLC Media. This is our final podcast on a series where we were connecting conversational leadership, everyday leadership conversations, to the work of Heifetz as he thinks about in his center, what is adaptive leadership? Marty Linsky is the other gentleman that I've listened to and learned from tremendously over the years. Both of them are very interested in this and have given us six invitations for leadership behaviors, things that leaders can do to make this work. Well, this one I think you'll like a lot. This is about. And I'll read the. Read it directly. Okay. It says the principle number six principle is to protect the voices of leadership from below. Of course, that gives you a hierarchical structure. I'm fine with that because everybody knows what that means. We know where the boss is and where I fit in. So from your own vantage point, why do we need to talk about this principle, which is to protect the voices of leadership from below? Why do you think this is important to talk about? Anybody can start.

So I'll kick us off. So my view, and as I look at that, I think it's important in any organization, particularly if you have one that's very dynamic, you want to have alignment and focus for the enterprise. In order to do that, it just requires that people from below and all throughout the organization, they need to be able to see the vision, they need to see the direction, and they need to see that by seeing that the organization is being supported all throughout the system, that when people see that alignment, they're encouraged, they have more trust, they can bring forth their best thinking, their best capabilities to help the organization to achieve whatever mission outcomes it desires.

I do like that a lot. And what I'm hearing you say, as long as there is alignment and common understanding, which we've chatted about before, people will feel like I can exercise my own capabilities to accomplish that vision. I want you to stay there for a minute, and I'm going to get Colleen and Joe to weigh in on this. We're talking about challenges that aren't solved by leadership, by authority. They're not solved by authority. So we might actually have that exact alignment. We are clean and clear. We know where we're going. We're on board. Right. All of a sudden, we have this really messy set of challenges that are unfolding. And I have actually said it myself. I am guilty of saying this. Why doesn't the boss just do that? Why is he bothering me with this crap? Why can't I just, you know, what do we Say, no matter where we are in the leadership chain, remember, leadership can be exercised anywhere in the system, with or without leadership titles. It can be exercised anywhere. Given that sentence, okay, and given the beautiful setup that Vince just gave us, what do we do with somebody who starts going, this is awful. Why are they doing this to us? Why are they doing this to me? And why can't the leaders just give us direction, for God's sakes? How do we respond to that? And all three of you can play, but I wanted to use Vince as a beautiful setup for that. But we have alignment, we have common understanding. We're moving forward. This incredibly messy challenge has just come to us. And people that I work next to every day are saying, come on, come on, can't the Admiral fix this? Can't the CEO fix this? Come on. How do you respond to that? So that you protect the voice of leadership which says, this is not a technical problem, this is an adaptive challenge. My response is not the necessary response. How do you protect that voice?

Well, I think, first of all, I would say it's important to protect it because I think the only thing that leadership can offer is authority and direction.

Correct.

There's almost nothing else leadership brings to the table. Some of that can be substantial and can help. But if you erode and if you are part of the leadership team, but you allow the workforce to be cynical, sarcastic, undercutting of leadership decisions, if you don't provide some of that explanation, or middleware, if you will, that is from leadership decisions that may in abstract look nonsensical to the everyday work that has to be done. If you don't make those bridges, then you find that you are hurting your own organization by undercutting that ability to exercise authority and direction. I think it raises a little bit of a question among the mid level management, perhaps some senior levels in the organization, when they find that leadership has made a decision that they have mixed feelings about or they're not quite on board with. Again, I think this goes back to the idea that the leadership team has to have good conversations, they have to have quality conversations. If you have reservations or concerns about a leadership decision, you need to bring that up in the councils and hash it out. But at the end of the day, when the leader decides you need to get on board with the decision or you need to get out of the organization, because being in the organization, but being a foot dragger or being a naysayer about leadership decisions will end poorly for you.

So what you made me think about this is a beautiful Follow on to what Vince said. So I'll actually create more disequilibrium in the system. I will create more adaptive challenges if I am not aligned with the direction that's happening. And again, it goes back to, you know, is this illegal or immoral? That was kind of my little test to myself when the head shed would give me things to do. And if it wasn't any of those things, it's like, okay, so then how do I get on board and how do I make sure that in my own words, I am not denigrating being, you know, sarcastic? You know, oh, we got another message from the head office. Now go get it. All of that is destructive. And I think as we're studying adaptive challenges, many leaders and many people just working create more disequilibrium by that constant dramatic kind of question. Don't they know what asking us to work on this? Haven't they got a solution? Why are they bothering us with this? We're bothering you with this because we don't know what to do. This is not about authority. This is about you that are working within the system to exercise your leadership and to deal with this incredibly significant adaptive challenge. Joe, that was magnificent. Colleen, where are you on this one?

Yeah, I think what was surfacing when I was listening to my colleagues was there's respectful disagreement and then there's public disparagement. And it's recognizing as a leader what's going down. We can respectfully disagree with the decision that has been made. And once I have in my team provided a space for me to understand and for there to be a candid conversation about it. Now, as Joe mentioned, now it is a choice. We need to choose to align behind the decision. We didn't necessarily agree, we didn't perhaps even make the decision. And that's okay. Once you've respectfully disagreed, kind of hashed it out, understand a little bit of the thinking it is that leader needs to corral their team, have those conversations, and then move out in alignment, lockstep with one voice. If the leader notices this and does nothing, that in and of itself, to your point, creates more disequilibrium and creates a community of commiseration which can grow exponentially. So now we are our own worst enemy. Not only do we have this adaptive challenge, we're trying to adjust innovation they create where it's almost like we're shooting ourselves in the foot because we are self imposing another issue, disequilibrium and an and almost growing this disequilibrium because of our voices.

So that's magnificent. And holding us here about there are sometimes we've all work in this space, either in it or with it, where Congress makes a decision that directly impacts the day to day work of the men and women that are trying to take care of people and are in service to us as private citizens. Congress makes the decision, hands it down to the secretaries who then hand it down to the next level and the next level. And all of that has a ripple effect. And I think those of you that are listening, you probably have already figured this out. We are constantly helping people think about once drama occurs, how to get out of it. Because two things happen when drama exists anywhere in the system. One, personal responsibility and accountability goes to almost zero. Not my fault, not my job achievement, almost zero. It is the literature on this is legion that when drama consistently exists inside of a system, that system will devolve and in many cases in private sector go bankrupt and have to reorganize. And then they think it was the customer didn't like the product or it was the product didn't get there soon enough. And they have all these, you know, we can run sheets on that and show them why it didn't work. It devoured because the people inside the system were so connected to being either a victim, a persecutor or a rescuer. And any of those roles, by the way, if you play any of those scripted roles inside the drama triangle, your achievement and personal accountability will go almost to flat zero. So a lot of this, why does it matter that we protect the voices of leadership? One of the simplest things is we do not need drama in any system because of the reasons we just stated. I think your setup for us, Vince, was magnificent. Joe, your response, Beautiful. Colleen, you certainly did, as Vince always says, tied the little ribbon on it. So here is a chance for you to talk to those that you really care about that are listening to us and say, here's one thing I want you to think about in your next conversation, because this happens in your next phone call, in your next coffee break, in your next time you bump into somebody. People you know, our whole world has been listening to tragedy and trouble for decades. If you're not careful, we can turn our daily conversations into just that. So let me hold this here just for a minute and have you guys simply give a little bit of coaching. These three people are just high quality executive coaches. So make believe you're talking to one of your clients right now. What would you say to them about protecting the voice of authority? From below, what's one thing you would say to them?

Okay, I'm jumping in first because most of the time I go last. I'm going to put that, that pressure on Vince or Joe.

This is social push. Is that so?

Yeah, that's my disequilibrium right there.

I got it.

I will say, if you see something, say something. If you see someone within your team, a colleague around you in the system, that is not protecting the voices of leadership, say something. I think many times people, oh, I don't like to get in, you know, difficult conversations or, you know, blah, blah, blah. From our perspective or from my perspective, that is part of being a leader. So my invitation is, if you see something, say something. Protect those voices of leadership.

That is a leader. Beautiful. That is a leadership act. And so often I see people, they'll roll their eyes or they'll turn their head or they do nonverbal affirmation or non verbal. I don't want to be involved that kind of stuff rather than just stepping in. Whoa, whoa. Let me make sure I understand what you're saying. Hmm. I hope, if you don't mind, I do understand you. I'd like to offer another perspective. And we don't do it. You know, we just don't. And I get why. I want them to like me at lunchtime and maybe we have drinks together after work. I get it. At the same time, there is the development of more disequilibrium in the system when that happens. Thank you so much, Colleen. Who'd like to go next?

I think it's good to have a healthy respect for leadership. I think in most organizations and for most leaders, it's appropriate to think they have other sources of information. They deal with a wider spectrum of issues than most of the rest of us, and therefore they have the requirement, the need to make decisions that may not make all the sense in the world to the rest of us. But again, they are charged with the greater good of the organization. I think, again, to a reasonable extent, it's important to preserve that authority and direction, as we talked about before. But, Ray, let me challenge you and ask you about. There are organizations that have bad leaders. There are processes that produce bad or terrible decisions. The Congress, Supreme Court, the administration, major corporations, you can go down the list. And sometimes people find themselves in a position. It's one thing if you have really strong leadership, very aggressive leadership, if you will, in addressing issues or concerns, very open leadership. It's also possible that you're in an organization where frankly, leadership has undercut themselves by making unnecessary or poor decisions. As a mid level management or even in senior management, you can find yourself in the position of where you are a main member of an organization that is not making very good decisions. We talked about not falling into commiseration. But Ray, what would you say to those people who are in the organizations where the leadership's bad and they're struggling with that?

My response would be in this work of thinking about adaptive challenges right where you are in the organization right now, you have the capacity to create a desired future just for your team. It might just be the small team that you're in. An example would be pick any college basketball team on the planet in the United States or outside the United States. I need to take that particular team and help them create their desired future state. In the absence of direct leadership. In this context of our conversation today, it was once we identify an adaptive challenge and leadership recognizes they cannot exercise power, authority and control to solve that adaptive challenge, how can we protect the voice of leadership? So people don't say, why don't they just fix it? So to Joe's point, there are places that have. They're on a funny, their journey's funny. Because for whatever reason the leaders have not behaved in ways that would enable the system as a whole system accomplish what it wants to accomplish. However, there are pockets of excellence inside those systems and. And if we spend our time talking about those above us, we end up losing our capability to be effective where we are. Joe was an effective ships captain. He was a surface warfare operator, was ineffective captain. Things could have been falling apart in Washington D.C. he had a mission to accomplish. He accomplished the mission with the men and women that he had. And if they wanted to have a beer and complain about Congress or talk about the President, fine, go ahead. That is not going to get into my conversation about the mission we're trying to accomplish. That's all good talk, but it's good side talk. So I thought that was. That's how I would respond to that. Joe, anything else on that?

Yeah, no, I would just bring it back to. There's an old saying about you're either part of the problem or you're part of the solution. To put a very fine point on this, at no point does string into commiseration or at no point does undercutting leadership serve anybody's interest. Even though the organization, even though you personally may have questions about where the organization is going, surfacing those things to the rest of the workforce does not help the organization. And again, if the alignment that Vince talked about is so fundamentally askew. If you cannot align with leadership, then it is time to find another place to go.

I love it. I love it. One of my greatest teachers taught me that because I always wanted to be part of the solution. He said to me, you're part of the problem and you're part of the solution. At the same time, stop acting like you know what to do, because if you did, we could have done that. We'd be fine right now, and we aren't. So I love that phrase, part of the problem, part of the solution simultaneously. Joe, Magnificent. Colleen, magnificent. Vince, tell us something magnificent.

Man, I don't know if I can tell you something magnificent. I'm from the south side of Chicago, third generation. I can tell you that. But with respect to leadership, as I listen to my colleagues, man, I guess my my closing thoughts would be very simple. If I were talking to someone and they were facing this issue, I would give them three pearls. Pearl number one. With respect to leadership, do the right thing. Pearl number two, when put in a position to lead, lead and prayer number three, refer to number one. Number two and I'm out.

So I love it. And with that said, I mean, one of the nice things about event is that he can take such great ideas and make them so easy to think about. As I hang up the phone today or close out the session now, think about that. Refer to number one and two. It is about how do I exercise my. How do I behave? How do I behave right now? Because this is reality. And the biggest thing I think that Vince always gives me stay present. Be here. Don't let your thoughts drag you into some silly place. Be with the person you're with. Nothing matters more than being present. You can tell why I love these people. Thank you for listening. This is JLC Media. My name's Ray. You can find us@gojlc.com thank you for listening to these JLC podcasts on conversational leadership and its connection to adaptive leadership. Thank you so much for being with us. Take care. Sincerest thanks for listening to this episode of the Everyday Leadership Conversations podcast. The Jorgensen Learning center offers a variety of programs for individuals and organizations to enhance their communication and leadership skills. To find out more about programs and upcoming webinars, check out our events page@gojlc.com.