Inside JLC: Adaptive Leadership Part 3: Regulate Distress

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Welcome, everybody, to JLC Media. My name is Ray Jorgensen. I have my colleagues with me today, and I'll let them introduce themselves quickly. And we're going to be talking about the third leadership principle or leadership behavior when you're responding to an adaptive challenge. And from the last work we did, we talked about in the webinar, what is an adaptive challenge? What is a technical challenge? How are they similar? How are they different? And of course, those get conflated together. So today we're going to do the third leadership behavior that we've been invited to consider if we want to deal well with adaptive challenges. The first one is get on the balcony and look down at the playing field. Look down at the dance floor. Watch how the dance is unfolding as you do that from balcony to dance floor. And it's a feedback loop. You go back and forth and back and forth. You are able, after some disciplined inquiry, you can identify what is the adaptive challenge. And that's what we did last time. What's the adaptive challenge today? Now that we've been on the balcony and practice field, we've identified the adaptive challenge. Now we're going to talk about how do we actually regulate the distress that people feel in the system. And I am really quoting directly from the two men that brought this work to us years and years ago, Linsky and Heifet, since magnificent work. And we are going to keep that framework alive as we go through this. So this is the third leadership principle or the invited leadership behavior. So before I go to those, first, tell me what you heard me say and who the hell are you? Welcome to the podcast. So who'd like to go first? What'd you hear and who are you?

Go ahead, Vince.

Okay, so I'm Vince Starks, and I'm the junior member of the team, probably the most handsome guy on the team. But it's a pleasure to be here with you this afternoon. So, Ray, what I heard you say is that this is a continuation from a webinar that we did some time ago. And this is a third installment. We initially talked about looking up very high from the balcony and being able to understand and work with the team to get that feedback loop going. Secondly, we had a podcast where we had some discussions on understanding how to move in that environment. And this third segment, third leg, is how to regulate distress in the organization as a focal point as a result of the things that you learn. Did I capture that man or did someone hear something different?

Well said. Who'd like to go next?

All Weigh in. So, Colleen here. I just also heard you talk about in the managing distress how some people confuse and the technical problems and adaptive challenges. I think when I was hearing you with your focusing statement and listening, listening to my buddy Vince close the loop, what surfaced with me, just even with this topic is managing distress. And when there's so many challenges and changes, I think sometimes this piece is overlooked. Right. Just move forward, get over it. That's water under the bridge without really being intentional to manage the distress and how that impacts the team's ability really to work together, collaborate to. To really solve some of these. Some of these challenges that surface.

All right. Yeah.

Thanks, Colleen. I like what Colleen said. My name is Terry Moulton. I'm a member of the JLC executive team, former Navy Deputy Surgeon General, and been with the JLC over almost two years now. I guess what, what I heard you say, Vint, I mean, on top of what Vince and Colleen said, in summary, really, the balcony, back yourself away and take a look at what's going on. Then how do you regulate that distress? This is the third part of the series here, and that's about the adaptive challenge. That's what we're going to talk about today.

We're going to talk about now that we've recognized there is an adaptive challenge. People will feel uncomfortable, uneasy all the way to, I don't want any part of this or I'll look for a new job. I mean, there's so many emotional responses to significant change. And oftentimes people don't realize they've been through significant change many times in their lives. But when it feels like it's coming from the outside and somebody else is deciding this for me, sometimes we get a little bit of amnesia about how do I deal with this? I know how to deal with change. How do I deal with it? So as we start this off and think about this sense of the distress or stress that somebody feels, the first thing that we need to place in the system is somewhere for them to go and have a conversation where it's completely safe, where they're able to say what's on their hearts, what's bothering them. At the same time that I say that. I want to make sure I say this to everyone listening and to myself. I do not want to admire the problem. I do not want to admire the challenge. I want to recognize it and try and understand the need for this change so that I'm able to see the way forward. So we're not here to admire the problem. We're simply Here to recognize we need to help people have a safe place to say, this really bothers me. I'm upset about this. I don't. And I'm going to do it in three spaces, and I'm going to get them to talk about it. So each of you think about something that's changed. And the four of us have dealt with some big changes in one of our clients. You can use that one or you can use another one. Think about a change that has occurred in order to have a conversation in a safely, dangerous space, a safe conversation. I'm going to talk about three different things. So the first thing is loyalties. So in a big change, we begin to wonder about, wait a minute, where are my loyalties? To other human beings or to the mission being challenged? So that's the first one I want you to think about. And what I did just then, by the way, was framed a question. I framed a question to ask my friends and colleagues about what are some loyalties that may have been challenged through one of these big changes that you have experienced or actually may have initiated yourself? Right. What's one of the loyalties? Or a couple of the loyalties that may have gotten challenged? Who'd like to go first? Boy.

Go ahead, Colleen.

Please, Terry, I'd love to hear your perspective on this one.

Well, all right. Thank you, Colleen. I think of a big organization going through a merger and acquisition. And I think about the loyalties. And the loyalties I think about is, hey, this used to be ours. We own this. And it's not our job to give it up. We don't want to give it up because they can't do it as well as we can. So we need to keep it. And so in the organization, we never make the change, never understand the need for the change. And our top leaders don't communicate to us it's okay for the change to occur. I think the loyalties play a big part of that. I think people need to be told, it's okay, we need to do this. Then I need champions to help lead the way.

I love it. It's almost like seeing the way forward. If we don't see a way forward, we begin to talk about the current reality and say, I'm going to lose these loyalties. These people really matter to me. I designed this in such a way that I could make sure that these things got accomplished going forward. So that's really well said. And if I'm not careful, then if I'm wondering about my loyalties, I start to become a Victim of the change rather than someone that can embrace the change. And if leadership's not giving us a very clear picture in the case I think Terry's talking about, it was a combined leadership. Could have given a way forward, could have given a picture of what success might look like going forward. So, Colleen, Vince, what are you hearing Terry and I saying and talking about right now? What's resonating with you?

Sure, I'll weigh in. I think what's resonating with me is this sense of loyalties. And when things change, whether it's combined. Right. Somehow there's an organizational change. We as human beings, we want to feel connected to something, and so if our loyalties are shifted, then we get a little bit confused. Right. Well, where's my place in this organization? Was one piece I heard. And the second piece was, I don't understand my place. And senior leaders are not developing a shared vision of where I'm going now. That adds on to my confusion, because not only do I not feel connected to the organization and to leadership, I don't know where we're going.

That's beautiful. So you really identified another big piece here in the loyalties when there is some confusion about the big picture, the new story that's being told. My loyalty tends to be with the person I report to. So I'm very loyal to my boss, to whoever it is I see as my boss, and I could be loyal, actually, to my team members also. So. So if I don't have that other picture, I'm starting to feel uncomfortable, to distressed about the fact that I don't know what to be loyal to at the moment. See, that's such a great catch. Vince. What are you thinking about, brother?

Yeah, I agree with my colleagues, and as they were talking, I was thinking about, what does that look like at the deck plates? And so you're right. That loyalty issue does become a concern. And I think that leadership really also has to have the ability not only just to communicate a direction, but you need to do it often, because when you're under distress, somebody could say, one time, it'll be okay. This is the thing we need to do. And then tomorrow, when I come back to the office, I'm filled with the distress that I had the day before, and I may have forgotten about the vision. So not only having a vision to Colleen's point, but the frequency and the periodicity and the way that you need to communicate that so that it's clear across your system something that could have some impact. But loyalty begs for Repetition and clarity of the vision.

Yeah. Vince, you just nailed the big piece in the literature which says in times of significant change, leaders need to over communicate. And that's not just the leader leaders. Right? So that anybody who's touching the systems that are going through this big change, they have a responsibility to keep retelling and retelling and retelling the compelling story about why this is so, so important going forward. Otherwise, we will drift into these spaces of, okay, I lost Colleen as my leader. Now what? I'll go. Vince is my leader now. Who is he? I don't even know if I trust him yet. So all of this begins to cause distress in the system. Back to safe space. Talk about the loyalties that you may be seeing shift and change. The big piece that Vince just restated, I thought was beautiful. One of the keys is to over communicate the compelling story. Why does this matter? Why is this such a big deal? So that people can see the end state and they can begin to see how they fit in. So notice what we did. Safe space. Right. We need a place to go and not just complain, not to commiserate, but to simply surface. What's bugging me and what may be bugging me are the loyalties. And I'm not clear about what those are. There's another piece here that happens. The loyalties are always connected to values. Is the system behaving in a way that I personally have committed myself to? Sometimes we get committed to a human being and then we realize, no, I'm really actually committed to the values that that human being brings forward. So if I'm missing one of those values, I'm in another very stressful and distressed situation. The values that mattered to me before the change happened or as the change is happening, they still matter to me. If I don't have the space to talk about those values, I get myself. I mean, I can even feel myself getting stressed thinking about all the times they shifted things for me, you know, as a school person. Well, you used to have seven peers. Now you have six now. We used to have like A day, B day, C day. Now we have just straight calendar. We're changing from semesters to trimesters. Every one of those felt strange to me. And I felt constantly in this place of flux until I learned how to manage myself, manage myself. So what are the values I want to keep forward as I'm going through this? So remember, we're in a safe space. We've talked about loyalties, now let's talk about values. Where do we get kind of stuck if we can't see the values. Vince, why don't you start us off on this one?

Yeah. So, you know, it comes to mind as you were talking about that, I was just thinking, as a leader, how do I know how to articulate the values? And so just being aware of what the values of the system is and then ensuring that you are aligned and understand that by closing a loop. I think leaders don't do a great job at closing a loop and making sure, if I'm at this level of leadership, that I communicate with the next level to make sure this is the value system that we have and how I see it, and this is how I intend to talk about and execute it. Do I have that correctly? And get that confirmation all the way up so that you have good system alignment of the values. I think that people think about their individual values, and sometimes there's a disconnect between what I hold as a value and what I think is important to communicate compared to what the system's value is that I'm supposed to take ownership on and make sure that I share with the team.

That's brilliant. That's just brilliant. That's why people will leave. They'll leave because either they don't trust their boss anymore, their boss is making them uncomfortable. What are you uncomfortable about? They don't match my values. You start interviewing these people and that's all of the case studies. And I love. This is Harvard's 100th year of case studies. That's what the case studies show. The values that I hold are not consistent with the values of my boss or the system that I'm working in. I think that's really a big one. Thank you so much, Vince. Brother Terry, what are you thinking?

Yeah, well, Vince was talking. I was thinking trust, service and alignment. We sort of. Our values don't align or the new organization didn't align with the values I had. So it wasn't my place, wasn't moving to try to understand the other side.

Right.

I was stuck in my value proposition rather than embracing being able to move into the new organization's value and what opportunity that presented us going forward.

So notice you slip into that same place. I'm now a victim of the value structure that I haven't yet had a chance to even grapple with, to see if it matters to me or if it even means something I can hold on to. That was really good, Terry. That is the. So the second place. First loyalties and now values. What are you thinking, Colleen? About this value thing.

Yeah. Just as they were both sharing their thoughts, it made me think about if I'm grappling with the values, and then I'm looking to my leader, and my leader isn't even modeling or demonstrating these values. Now I'm really distressed and uncomfortable. I'm going, wait a minute. You talked about integrity, Terry, and you're talking about people behind their back. What's all about that? So I think, you know, while you're in the middle of values, mine don't match. But then a leader says, well, these are our values, and then they are not behaving consistent with the stated values.

Right.

I think. I think if I could add with that, one of the key words you talked about was modeling the intended behavior. Right. Act as if I act in the way that I want it to be. Right. And it's so important for the leaders. Leaders to model that so that the rest of the organization and those that they lead move on with them.

Yeah. So there's a piece here on the things that you guys just spoke about that if you're not careful and you don't provide a safe space for people to talk about what's bugging them, what's really distressing them about this change, they will begin talking about other people. They'll make fun of their leader. They'll say, the leader's not doing it right. This one's not doing. They'll start to identify people that are not behaving in a way that they think they should be behaving. So we get back to this, right, wrong, good, bad, crazy morality conversations, as opposed to, I think that person is a wonderful human being doing the best they can in the context of this change. How can I have a space, safe space, where I can talk about the distress that I'm feeling and the stress that I'm feeling moving forward? If you're listening to us, I hope you're recognizing we need a safe space not to commiserate, but to identify. Where are these loyalties that I have being kind of upended temporarily or maybe permanently? Where are my values not being seen as consistent with the values of the system? And I like the way Vince did that with his hands all through the system, not just in one place. And again, the literature is pretty clear. People leave because of their bosses and a lack of understanding of how they're behaving consistently with their values. Back to Terry. If it is to be, it's up to me. How do I behave in a way that brings his story forward, brings the compelling Story forward. And I think all through this opportunity for safe space, the constant over communication of here's where we're going and here's why it matters and here's why this change really will be good for sailors, army members, Air Forcemen, Marines and their families going forward. I think it's an opportunity to. You guys keep saying that. For us to do this, the last one, when we have this safe space, to talk about our loyalties, our values, and how we're being impacted by either those loyalties that we may be like, see shifting and changing, or values that may not match where we were a little while ago. We have some losses that are possible. If I get to work with these three people all the time, I'm pretty happy. If a change happens, they say, well, JLC is being broken up and Vince is going to work on the east coast with five other people and Terry's only going to work and in New Orleans and Colleen's only going to work in Nebraska. And they have all different people to work with. The loss that I feel is intense because I have relationships here that really matter. And that's the part of leadership that we don't want to lose here. The greatest leaders produce and initiate and sustain high quality relationships. If I think I have high quality relationships and then they pull these people away from me, that's a loss. What are some other losses besides relationships? What are some of the losses that can happen in this kind of a transition? Who would like to start us off on this one?

So I'll take a stab at it, please. I think that, you know, sometimes as leaders, when organization shifts and changes, you can lose some of your authority or your perceived authority and that helps define your role. You know, a lot of people define themselves like that. So now suddenly you don't have role as the organization transition and you used to be this, but now you're going to be something different. And that's a significant loss. And if it's not, you don't anticipate it. That can be very painful and very difficult, something very difficult to recover from. And you can't always hide that, who you are. People around you see it and so they're reacting and responding to your leadership adjustment or how you react and respond. So loss of authority and, and responsibilities is a big part of that for awareness.

In my view, it probably is my comfort zone. I like working in this space and all of a sudden it's not there anymore. And in this space people knew me, they respected me for my work. They really kind of Liked me. I don't. So one of the things that scares me, like change doesn't scare me. It scares me when I become incompetent temporarily or I feel like I might be. And again, in that safe space we have this holding space, safely dangerous space. People get to articulate that stuff so that the over communicating the mission forward and letting people know there is a place for you is something we kind of don't spend much time on because we haven't thought about these adaptive leadership behaviors that we're talking about today. Terry, what are you thinking about this one?

Yeah, I was thinking more along the lines of first of all I like what Vince says and it, you know, sort of apply that to me even. But I was thinking more along the lines of the organization, right. If the organization was always used, their comfort zone is used to running these military treatment facilities, for example. And now those military treatment facilities are going, going to be somebody else's responsibility. That's a loss. And what do I do now? I'm, I'm not comfortable in this new role that I'm supposed to be doing. So I'm going to fight until, fight as long as I can. But inevitably you're going to lose. So how do you then transition into this new role? Right, you're incompetent in this new role. So you need to educate yourself and have conversations and just start small. And what three things could we do that would prove that we're in this new opportunity and move and go from there? And once you, then you start to get comfortable and then you can just keep on, keep expanding and expanding. But a great opportunity though, from a different mindset.

From a different mindset. And if you're, if your mindset shifts all of a sudden you're giving somebody an opportunity to actually state this bothers me, this is a loss that bothers me. I want to talk it through so I know how I can behave. In my, my new position, it isn't that you're not needed or you're not important. In your new position, it's different. And a lot of times that difference just so upsets me. I mean, I like where I get my coffee in the morning. I like what time I go to work. I like who I see when I walk through the door. On and on. Those things matter to us as people. And again, I keep saying this all the time. Leadership's a people business. It's not here's the, the do outs for us and here's the, here's the structure. It's A people business. And this is all people stuff today, this distress. Colleen, what are you thinking about this loss of stuff?

Yeah, I think what resonated with me is, you know, just going back to roles and responsibilities and what Terry said. And many times when things are reorganized or consolidated, there is a shift in multiple people's roles and responsibilities. And yet what I've seen in the conversations with the client is they don't pause to say, wait a minute. I need to now understand my role and responsibility and its impact on Vince's role and responsibility and Terri's and yours, because we are a system. And people talk about, stay in your lane. This is mine. Well, instead of developing a common understanding of the new roles and responsibilities and how we can work together collectively, the distress causes us to stay in our loss. And for me, just to hold on and scrap for what I perceive to be mine and think about what that does to the organization's opportunity to move forward goes down, right? There goes our productivity, because I'm stuck in distress. I'm stuck in drama because Terry's over there. He's getting in my lane. He won't stay away, and I'm not even talking to him about it because I want to keep what has always been so.

Colleen. This is magnificent. So the three of you have done a beautiful job. Those of you that are listening, this is an opportunity for you to lead through change, where you give someone safe space, safely, dangerous space. Talk about, these are the loyalties that matter to me. These really matter. These are the values that matter to me, and these are the potential losses I may be experiencing. I always want to have a somewhere I can talk about this so I can reorient myself into a new space so I can become productive in this new change. Or maybe they decide, I don't want to play anymore. This is not what it thought it was. It could be a new life for me. Which then becomes, to Terry's point, an opportunity for a new way forward. Notice we did the third one today. First one, you get on that balcony, and you look from the balcony at the dance floor practice field, and you stay doing that. It's a constant game. The second was Identify the Adaptive Challenge. But these are constant feedback loops because other ones may pop up again. This one, give people space so they can actually talk about the distress they're feeling, especially around at least three things. There may be more, but we kind of put them in what came out of the literature. Loyalties, values, and losses. And the next time we're going to speak, we will move forward and start talking about how to make sure these messages stay in the forefront of people's minds and they don't get lost in the day to day work. Otherwise, it's just another nice idea that didn't go anywhere. Notice, ladies and gentlemen, these are ideas that. And beautifully, Vince, Terry and Colleen showed you how to make these ideas practicable. I can use this in my practice. That was really good. So before I go to say goodbye to you listeners, I'm going to ask each of my colleagues to say, here's one thing I would love you guys to think about as you are grappling with adaptive challenges and you're trying to manage the distress. You've probably heard a lot of stuff today. I hope you got some takeaways. But this is a chance for this team to say, hey, if I'm sitting next to you and we're either having a beer together, a glass of wine or a coffee, cup of tea, and I want to tell you one thing to be thinking about as you're dealing with, right. Managing distress. Here's one thing I would want you to think about as we leave you today. So who'd like to go first? What's that one thing you would tell someone you really cared about around managing their distress, about change?

Yeah, I'll go first. It's really sort of a phrase that you said and I think us as leaders, if we adapt this mindset for us, it makes a difference for those that we lead. You said, if it's up to me, if it is to be, it's up to me. So we as leaders should take that on and then model that behavior and then help the others move forward in that adaptive change.

Great, that's great. Thank you. Thank you. Who'd like to go next?

So I really liked what Terry said and if only thing I could really add to that is where you talked about the fact that we're in a people business. If I were having a beer with somebody, I would just remind them that all of these things that we've been discussing are all focused on how do we as leaders help ourselves to better understand and regulate ourselves. And, and then that helps us to understand the needs and the relationships of the people around us so that we can help make them better. And so just to always remember, I will keep it simple, remember that this is about people and if you put people first, the rest of the those are the relationships you can do that. The team will get better, move forward in a month.

That's beautiful. Thank you. Thank You. Thank you, Colleen.

Yeah. I think just listening to my colleagues, what resonated with me is, you know, the sense that if it is to be, it's up to me. And the fact that this isn't a checklist. Right. Oh, Went on the dance floor. Check. Oh, Decided what kind of adaptive challenge it is. Check. I managed the distress last week, Vince. So figure this out, man. Move along. I think this, my invitation is. It is about relentless repetition and recognizing, as you mentioned, these feedback loops. This is not a one and done. Right. We would love to be able to say, I managed the distress last week, so we're moving forward and all is well. So my invitation is to recognize meeting people where they are, but that this is not a one and done. This is a constant, daily practice of continuing to focus on your people. And I'm out.

That's really good. Yeah. We don't have any pixie dust to offer you. So then, okay, here's your change. Here's your pixie dust. Now you feel better. And I might not be upset this week, but I might be next week. So is there a place for me to go that's safe, where I can actually say, ah, this isn't going the way I thought it would, or I'm wondering about myself and what I might lose in terms of friends, colleagues. Ah, this just needs to be an opportunity not to commiserate, not to admire the problem, but to speak openly, honestly, in a safe space about how this particular change is landing on me. And I thought that. I think it was you, Vince, but I'm not sure. One of you said something that made me think of the first person I lead is myself. How am I managing my own distress? How am I managing? I lose these people. And I kind of laid it out before, like, if I lost this team, oh, my God. There's loyalties here, and there's values that we share with one another, and there's daily routines and expectations and promises, all stuff that we've built up over time that would be, to me, beyond troubling. And I need some kind of safe space to talk about that so I can learn how to manage me through this incredible change. So all the really wonderful stuff, ladies and gentlemen that are listening, I hope you enjoy. I always enjoy them. Today they were truly spot on about holding on to giving human beings a space, giving people a safe space, a holding area for them to talk about their distress, talk about how this is bugging me so that they can work their way through it. My belief is people will work their way through things if they're given an opportunity to explore and practicing the conversational leadership disciplines. What I heard you say close the loop. How you doing? How are you this week? All of that plays into this particular domain of managing an adaptive challenge. Ladies and gentlemen, thanks for being with us. Hope to see you again@gojlc.com and I hope you enjoyed the podcast today. I sure did, and I enjoyed my friends very, very much. And we're out.

Sincerest thanks for listening to this episode of the Everyday Leadership Conversations podcast. The Jorgensen Learning center offers a variety of programs for individuals and organizations to enhance their communication and leadership skills. To find out more about programs and upcoming webinars, check out our Events page at gojlc. Com.