Inside JLC: Becoming a Learning Leader

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Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us here at JLC Media. My name's Ray. I am part of this wonderful team in front of you and I'll let them do a very fast, you know, 15 second introduction and then we will jump into this particular podcast and the title of this one is what it Means to be a Learning Leader. A learning leader. So that's what I'm going to say for now and then I'll close the loop in a little while. So, Colleen, who are you and what are you doing here?

Still trying to figure that out. But I am with Jorgensen learning center for 14 years, I believe. I don't know, it seems like 14 minutes. And I do a variety of different things. I have the pleasure of working with this team and also really helping with the operations as well. And I'm in.

Welcome, welcome, welcome, Vince.

So good morning or good afternoon team. I'm Vince Starks. I've been with JLC for three years now. I'm a recovering naval officer, spent 30 years in the United States Navy and the healthcare sector in particular. And so I enjoy the opportunity to engage in these topics and help other leaders and teams finally. So it's a pleasure to be here with you. And I'm in.

Welcome, Terry.

I am Terry Moulton. I too am a JLC associate, former Deputy Surgeon General of the Navy. I'm a healthcare senior healthcare executive by training with over 37 years of experience. And I too enjoy the opportunity learning that we've had over the past three decades and look forward to this session as well. And I'm in.

Welcome, welcome and thank you for getting in with us. So I'm going to get in with the intention of today. So we are all about learning. We are conversational leaders. We practice the disciplines that are inside of conversational leadership. And we've come to know over time that there is an art and practice to leadership. We've had many people among our team and others that we work with that say, I can give anybody the keys to the meeting and say, here's the meeting agenda, here's what you need to do. Go for it. That's not exactly the same as creating an opportunity for people to be together and learn from one another. There are other behaviors that represent an artful response to leadership. By the time this is done, I'm intending that every one of the listeners will grab a little piece, a little takeaway so that they can say, you know, based on my understanding of what it means to be a learning leader, here's something I Can enhance, do better or something different that I can do. I want to be very clear that those of you that are listening, that are leaders, we don't think that you need us, that we're here to help you or save you. That's not our interest at all. We're here to enhance the capabilities that are inside of you. With that said, that's our intention. And how did that kind of resonate with you or land on you? Terry, why don't you start us off? What did you hear me say and what did that mean to you?

Yeah, I think the leadership, a learning leader, there's an art and a practice to it. And the outcome of this session is really a little tidbit, a takeaway for those leaders to enhance their already good capability that they have in leadership. And so we're just offering that one little bit of an enhancement that would make them more effective.

I love it. Yeah. There's so much in this in terms of it's an opportunity. And learning is, you know, it's a Latin word, and it means a furrow. It's a way to move forward in your life. And if I'm actually in learning, then I'm actually finding a more pleasing way to move forward. And we'll do that contextually in just a minute. Thank you. Did you hear something more or different, Colleen?

No, I. Well stated, Terry. I heard very similar in that encouragement. I think what resonated with me most is that sense of they're already great leaders. There is no magic pixie dust. There is. This is not a fix. And we just encourage people to really think about what's resonating with them throughout our conversation today. And just a takeaway. What's something that they believe that they can internalize and then use immediately to be more effective in whatever it is they're trying to accomplish.

I love it. Thank you. Thank you. Something else or more, Vince?

You know, I heard the same thing. Just what resonated with me was, you know, we all are different, and we are at different stages of our leadership development. And so you may lay on the table three or four things. One thing may land with me. It may be a different thing for Terry, a different thing for Colleen. So we don't always have to walk away with the same point. We'll just walk away with what we need individually to enhance our individual capability. I'm excited. I'm looking forward to engaging this conversation.

I think that's a wonderful addition. What Vince is really adding on is that we will learn from this process. Today we will actually get better at what we do. And we really provide three services. We do individual coaching and support. We work with teams and we really work hard in the area of leading change. And I know most people want to call it change management, but it's really about leading change. But leadership starts with me. If I am put in a position of leadership, whether it's formal or not, because I could be a team member and have no authority at all and I know where the team is going, but I have a responsibility to exercise leadership right there where I am in the system. For me, that was an enormous takeaway as a young leader. I was very young. I was too young to be in a formal leadership position that I was in. I needed more miles under me and I didn't have them. And it was for me. I was doing that old fake it till you make it, you know, I did the best I could with what I had, but my goodness, there was so much for me to learn. And it required lots of missteps, lots of mistakes, and a willingness back to Brene Brown and vulnerability. I had to be vulnerable enough to recognize there's more for me to learn. I can do this better. And leadership starts with me wherever you are in the system. I've coached teams and been on teams. The kids that I coached, each one of them could exercise leadership right where they were on the team. When I was working inside of a system and people were trying to get us to do something, achieve more, do more. I had a responsibility, a leadership responsibility there. And the only way I could do it was to learn how to support my colleagues better and how to do better. So this is all about what does it mean to be a learning leader? Now I'm going to open this up to my friends. They all are elegant at the way they process information and the way they take the time to reflect on their practice. And I think for us right now, the best thing we can do for our listeners is get each of you to talk a little bit about what it means to you to be a learning leader. Anybody can start. Who'd like to start?

Yeah, just Terry. I'll start. What does it mean to me to be a leader? I think as I've evolved in my leadership practices, one of the things I really think hard about is it's no longer a blame game, right? We don't blame people. We have a situation. We, the team are approaching that situation. We may have a different aspect of it, but overall, for the organization, for everybody, is what are we learning in the Action that we're taking. If we're not successful in it, then it's not a matter of blaming someone that we're not successful. What we want to do is say, why didn't that work? What did we learn from that? So that we can then redirect our actions or the vector that we want to go on. And that makes the organization so much more stronger and more participative across the board. Right. What did we learn from the situation? What do we need to do differently really is a very valuable leadership technique for our listeners out there.

So I watched you do that. So I had the privilege of serving in support of Terry when he was the Deputy Surgeon General. And he was always interested in what other people were thinking and what they intended to do differently as a result of the gathering, whether it was a big gathering or a small gathering, that was just. That's how he wanted it to always. We stopped all the time, okay, what are you getting from this and what are you going to do differently? So he didn't offer his learning first. He waited until other people could give their perspectives about what they were taking from the gathering, from the meeting, from the conversation. A learning leader consistently looking to get stronger and better as a result of those around him. I mean, we can't have everybody here. I mean, Terry was responsible for people all over the world, not just in Washington, D.C. he couldn't go touch them and be with them and put an arm around his shoulder. But he found ways to communicate effectively, and he kept learning from more and more effective ways to communicate. Even the way he wrote emails, I watched him change that as a result of the work he did on himself. How can I do a better job of communicating through this electronic methodology? So with that said, thank you so much. So, Vince, what do you think and when I say learning leader, what resonates with you?

Yeah, so I want to. My thought process in a learning leader is my ability to create focus for the team. But I do that by creating a safe environment for the people to surface to get the best ideas kind of on the table. Right. And so in order for me to create that learning environment, I have to be vulnerable. Creating the safe spaces, creating that vulnerability and just telling my people, Like Terry would say, you know, he would ask, like, what are we learning? You know, how does it impact me? I was a little bit more directed because, you know, my level of leadership, I touched the organization at a lower level. And I had to go and just say, hey, listen, I don't want to offer my way My way is a way, but it may not be the way. In order for us to get to the best, best solution, I really need your help and I need the best thinking of the group. So I had to create an environment as a learning leader so that the people around me felt safe enough to surface and to bring their ideas to the table. And that was a very intentional and focused effort for me, and I had to do that for myself. I had to lead myself to be a learner, which mean I had to be vulnerable, and I had to create a safe environment so that I can get the best thinking from the team.

That resonates beautifully, I think, with your listeners, too. I think people will connect to that. And I have seen people in very difficult conversations. And in fact, I watched Vince model this one time. It was going to be a challenging conversation and somebody needed to hear something, and it wasn't going to be what they wanted to hear, end quote. Sometimes we can spend our whole leadership life in a likership model. I want you to like me, so I'm going to tell you what you like to hear. Right. Rather than something you need to hear. So the ability to do that starts with that personal vulnerability. And what I watched Vince model in one of our podcasts was, I take responsibility for this. I'm not going to make this all about you and that this is your problem, your issue. If you're having an issue or problem or there's something going south on you, so to speak, I'm going to take responsibility for that. Also, as the leader of this set of teams, there's something in that ability to admit, hey, I'm as responsible as anyone else in this room in this conversation for what's occurring. I don't want you to think you are alone and I'm here to lead you by embarrassing you. That's not the deal. I don't really think you showed up when this situation occurred on that particular day. You didn't wake up this morning and say, today I'm going to screw things up. That is not what your day was supposed to look like. So the fact that I'm talking to you is that I want to share in the responsibility to learn what's necessary so we can make the difference that truly matters to those that we are in service, too. So, Vince, that was a magnificent piece I watched you do. Colleen, what's resonating with you right now through these sets of sentences that you've heard?

Yeah, I think just listening to my colleagues, I've heard three kind of themes Almost surface. So far in our conversation, definitely one was learning leaders are curious. They're curious to find out what's really going on. What are you thinking? What are you learning? So they're creating space and they're asking quality questions, really, to learn. I think the second piece that really resonated was this sense of reflection. Right. We always talk about in our shop that reflection generates change. So if we're not intentionally pausing whether to self reflect or as Terry mentioned, to engage in conversations that promote learning with our team, which is reflection and those after action reviews. So that sense of reflection. The third piece, I think that Vince beautifully laid on the table was if we really want to be a learning leader, and if people are not comfortable or are afraid of asking questions, of surfacing their thinking, of seeing things differently, then truly how are we creating that safe space, that sense of intentionally creating and initiating and sustaining safe space so people can speak up and people can say what on their heart and mind. So those were three big takeaways for me so far.

Those are magnificent takeaways. You guys have anything to add to what Colleen said?

Yeah, I would just add on top of what Vince was saying, it's not my way, it's our way. So what you're really doing is you're getting the wisdom of the group. And as a leader and a learning leader, that's what you want to get, is that wisdom of all of us in this room so that we can have the best outcome for the organization. So wisdom of the group really resonated with me based upon what Vince was saying.

I like it. There's a piece here too, about this is about leading tribes. So when you are at the level that you are at, Terry, which is the highest levels, almost the highest level you can get in Navy medicine, you recognize that there's all these little sub tribes that are out there. How do I behave here, model here with this group, what it looks like to have safe space and to bring up ideas. And this is really important. We want to behave using the collective wisdom in the room, whatever it is, you know, and we may not like it. It may be something that is like, oh, wow, that really. It's not the way I was going to go. The more we constantly surface that collective wisdom, the more opportunity we have to make the best possible, possible decisions moving forward. That was really well said. Vince, what about you? Something to add to what's unfolding here?

No, I mean, I think my colleague sitting on the. On the head, Ray, and I have nothing additional to add to what's been said so far?

No, that's good. I'm going to come to you to ask for a heads up for those that are, that are not with us or that are out there listening that are not on the screen with us as we kind of close this piece out. Colleen, how about you? Something to add from what you've been hearing?

I think I'll loop back to one of the things you said in the opening was that leadership as an art and practice begins with self. So just that reminder, and I think Terry mentioned that leadership used to be where if the team isn't producing results, we're looking outbound to blame. So my invitation is as you're thinking about those characteristics of being a learning leader, also consider and start to self reflect where are you in your leadership journey and where are you with some of these key takeaways that we're surfacing and discussing?

Thank you. Thank you. So here's a key takeaway for me as a leader and one that actually is constantly interacting with leaders. My ability to listen, to understand, not to judge is probably the one capability that I would invite my friends and colleagues out there that are listening to think about how am I doing in practicing my ability to listen, to understand. And as you know, I have journals all over my office. I write all the time to myself about how I'm doing and what I'm doing. So those of you that are listening to us right now, think about that particular discipline. Listen to, understand and do your best to make sure that you are getting better and better at asking the necessary questions. The simplest ones that we teach right in the beginning of this work is tell me more and I don't understand. Those are powerful questions. And actually for myself, I write down to myself very often, what is it about me that's making me behave in this way? What is it about me that's making me behave in this way? It's not you, it's not Vince, it's not Terry, it's not. It's me. Something triggered me to behave in a certain way. So those of you that are listening, I urge you to really think about that very first discipline that we teach in a learning conversation. And that is to listen, to understand. So that would be what I would say to my listener friends that would be a good thing to think about. How about you guys? Somebody else tell me something else you would invite. Let's just make believe these are your best friends in the audience. What's something you would say to them?

Okay, so now that I've had a better chance to reflect and listen to my colleagues. I'll offer. I think that one of the most important takeaways for me is the sooner you can establish communication, the conversation. The sooner you get engaged your folks in conversation, the quicker that you can establish quality relationships. The relationships is really how the team fundamentally develops and finds because that's where the work is going to happen. Where the people are, is where all the stuff is going to happen. That's where the sausage is made. That's where the rubber meets the road. Pick a cliche. So the sooner you can engage in the conversation, you begin the relationship. And that to me is the most important takeaway. All these other things derive from that.

Yeah, that's outstanding. Vince, if you're listening, everybody develop the relationships, even with somebody he wouldn't necessarily take out to dinner or go have a drink with. The relationship is everything, if we can cannot create those relationships. And of course, Vince nailed it. We create the relationship and sustain the relationship through conversation. How can we do that and sustain those relationships? That's where all the good stuff is. That's where the results are if we have those kinds of quality relationships. And I've been listening to military leaders and private sector leaders for the last two days in preparation for this, this podcast. And their theme is the same. It's not delivered the same way, but it's all about connections and relationships. Critical, critical. Terry, what would you tell our listeners?

I think that listening to Vince and Colleen, I would say practice. Right. As I was on my JLC journey early on, what questions do you ask? How do you check in? How do you check out? It was foreign to me. And then so I started writing down the phrases and then started practicing those. And that's what I think really helped me to be a learning leader. Right. Tell me more. How does that land on you? What did we learn from that? What do we need to do differently? I think all those are good practices and really that's what makes a difference for the learning leader going forward. And so I learned a lot from that.

That's outstanding. So notice Terry coupled the art and practice together. Recognize the conversation. That's where the relationship lives, is an artful way to develop those relationships and the practices support those relationships moving forward. That was great, Terry. Colleen.

Yeah, I'm just reflecting back on that and I also really like it's pick one thing, right? I think sometimes people, they read a book or they listen to a podcast or they attend a seminar and they're like, ok, well, there's so many different things for me to begin to do. And so I think my other invitation is to pick maybe just one thing that you're going to focus on doing differently. And to Terri's point, maybe it's, I'm going to just really focus on how am I surfacing the wisdom of my team consistently. And maybe you think about. You write down in your journal a couple of key questions and then you just, next, next meeting, next conversation, lay that one on the table and see what you learn. So don't get overwhelmed. Maybe pick one thing that you're going to apply in your daily practice and sustain that piece and then add more as you go.

I think it's fantastic. And there's a couple of things here as I close out with you guys. That resin Colleen made me think about. So I am a musician and I have gone to conferences where they taught me how to play the instrument better. Right. If all I did was go to one conference a year to learn how to play the guitar better, I would not get better. There was no poem, no particular epiphany that was going to happen for me. It was the daily practice that enabled me to get better. My relationship with these three people has to do with the way I respond to them on a regular basis and. And that I'm with them on a regular basis. Leadership is not about one event, one situation, one big battle we had to win. One big. It's not about that. It is about all the little things that we do every day, all the time, and to the points that were made by my three colleagues. Pick one thing, pick one thing and work on that one thing and things will get better and your leadership will evolve. Any final thought from you guys to the gang that's listening?

No, I just reiterate what you said, the one thing. And practice, practice, practice. It makes a difference.

Yeah. If I work out today for 10 hours, I'm not going to get in shape. I'll probably get hurt. But if I work out every day for 20 minutes or a half hour, I will be in shape over time. It is a disciplined practice. Any final thoughts from you, Vince or Colleen?

I guess my one final thought, we didn't really cover this deeply today, but the leadership is not necessarily the formal interactions. It doesn't have to only be the formal interactions. Informal are just as vital and important because they really contribute to the quality of the relationships that you're working to establish. When I was in leadership, I mean, you mentioned the working out way. What I did was once every couple of weeks I went out and I would just PT and I would exercise with my crew. We would get up and meet on a Friday at 6 in the morning. And that was just a time we all worked out together. And they could see that I wasn't superior in every aspect. They could see the areas I was good and they could see my shortcomings. And it didn't matter because we were out there just together. And that was developing that learn. I was learning from those who did things better. So those informal leadership attributes are just as important as the formal leadership attributes.

And with that, I love it. And Vince, you've taught us this already. When you actually stop and say to somebody, how are you doing? You really want to know? It's not, I'm fine, boss, everything's good. No, Then you ask another question. Well, thanks for that. And I'm kind of curious and you said this to us before, Vince, and I thought it was magnificent. You didn't maybe have the tell me more thing, but it was something more than that, you know. I know you're fine. So let's tell me, how was your weekend? How was yesterday? How's things going today at work? Oh my God, that's such a distinction. Final thoughts from you, Colleen.

Yeah, just once again, it is daily practice. Daily practice. And if you try something once. I know Terry says he's written down things and then he's tried to use those words. If they don't feel right to you, shift them up. Keep in mind the outcome you're looking to achieve. And find your own leadership voice.

I can't end with anything better than that. Find your own leadership voice. It is already in you and you are already enough. No matter where you are in the system, the top level leader or somebody working inside the system, you are already enough. Find that leadership voice. Thank you for being with us. You can find us at Google. We'd love to talk with you at any time and we are so grateful that you are here today. Thank you so much. All be well. Take care. Sincerest thanks for listening to this episode of the Everyday Leadership Conversations podcast. The Jorgensen Learning center offers a variety of programs for individuals and organizations to enhance their communication and leadership skills.

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