Leader to Leader: Louise Perrin (Part 2)

Foreign. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us here at JLC Media. This is a leader to Leader podcast. It's a series that we started, oh, a couple of three months ago, I guess now, and we've had the privilege, absolute privilege, of bringing forward a series of leaders who have been through it, so to speak. All of us know that when we step into that leadership role, things happen and. And generally unexpected things happen to us. So this is an opportunity for us to learn from someone who I love as a friend and admire professionally as a terrific leader. And her name is Louise Perrin. She'll tell us about herself in a minute, but first I'm going to get Colleen to introduce herself and then Louise to tell us a brief little bit about her, and then we will switch to the focus of this particular conversation. So, Louise, start with you. Louise, tell us a little bit about you.

Okay. About me. Well, I am a retired senior vice president from State Farm Insurance Companies. I've been retired a little over two years now, and I'm also married to my husband Carl. We'll be celebrating our 40th wedding anniversary later on this month. And I have a wonderful daughter who lives in. In New Jersey, Very artsy, so very different than me and her dad. She's very creative and artsy, and it works in that creative type of environment. We live primarily in Chicago, although we do have a farm in Lewisburg, West Virginia, where we spend a lot of our time. Right now, most of my time, free time, is given working with both for profit and nonprofit boards and helping make them better and helping them achieve their objectives.

That's wonderful. And what I'm grateful to Louise for is the use of the work. The work of conversational leadership can be used at home, can be used anywhere. And you also made me think of this, Louise. We got to get Carl on here. We got to get his 2 cents on so many things. So, Colleen, tell us about you.

Well, first off, I noticed, Luis, when you said you are retired for two years, I don't know if everybody else noticed the happiness in her voice and the smile on her face, so. Absolutely. Well, it's a pleasure, you know, just to join you on this particular podcast. And for those of you who are listening, you probably have heard me say this before. I've had the honor and pleasure of working with senior leaders such as Luis Perrin over the last 12 years as a JLC associate. And so I'm really looking forward to this conversation and once again, having the pleasure of listening to you, Luis, and learning from your amazing Leadership journey.

Wonderful. One of the things we talked about in our last conversation briefly, but it comes up all the time, is that the greatest leaders are the learning leaders, the ones that are always in learning. And Louise epitomizes that particular piece in learning. I remember she came to me once before she employed me and the team to work with her. Very quietly, she said, I think this stuff really matters and I want to see it go forward. And I'll never forget that. Louise, it was a great, great set of moments and always grateful to you, and I love you to death. So this is great. Those of you listening, the reason why we're having this conversation is that sometimes a live person telling you a story about what occurred to them when they were leading a group is much more relevant than reading it in a book or seeing it in a little snippet. Well, you know how our world is today. It's very quick. If we can't like it in 10 seconds or something, we move on. This is not like that. This is a chance for you to really listen and hear how somebody grappled with significant leadership challenges which any of us that have been in a formal leadership position, we've had them. This is going to be great. What I'd like you to look for is your own personal understanding. Make meaning out of what Louise says. So at the end, you can take something away that she gives us in her learning piece. Colleen, what are you hearing me say and what are you thinking?

What I'm hearing you say is one of the things is about the importance of story and how a lot of times stories resonate with people and connect with people in a different way than reading some theoretic leadership theories or something like that in a book. So with that being said, we're going to be listening to some of Louise's amazing stories over the years and some of her learnings. And you're encouraging people just to think about it from their perspective and listen to it through their own lens and really think about what perhaps they could apply to their personal leadership journey.

So that really hits on one of the deep, deeply significant pieces of our work together at jlc. And that is knowledge is wonderful. If I can't turn it into action, if I can't make it my own personal, practical knowledge. It was an enjoyable presentation. I like the keynote, great presentation, but it didn't get into me in a way that I could use. It didn't get into my core, so to speak, unless you turn that knowledge into practice. It was a nice time, but that's about it. So I think you're going to learn about that today. So, Louise, I'm going to go right to you now since, you know, our time is precious and I really want to learn from you. Talk to us a little bit about what you viewed as one of your most significant leadership challenges. Tell us about that situation and then tell us what you did.

Okay. I think my most significant leadership challenge was more towards the end of my career, more so than the beginning. And here's why. We were going through a reorganization where we were taking smaller market areas and consolidating them into larger geographic areas called market areas. And so I assumed that one of the smaller geographic areas that I was currently leading was, would be combined with another geographic market area. Okay. And you know what they say when you assume, what happens? Well, my assumption was totally wrong. And I was the only SVP that was actually moved to a totally geographic area. Working with two, which were two separate teams before where. So I never worked with the individuals before, didn't work in, as an executive, did not work in those geographic areas either. And in addition to that, instead of bringing two intact teams together, it was one intact team and half of another team together. So this is. Was. Was the challenge of how do I lead this team who I don't know. The individuals don't really know the landscape per se and they don't know me. And so how do I, how do I lead this team and develop a high performing team that always delivers sustainable results? Because that was the other part of it with these teams. They weren't achieving the results that they needed to achieve and what was expected of them as well. So that will provide some context around what I viewed as my biggest leadership challenge that came in at the latter part of my career. And I think it was a gift that it came at the latter part of my career because I had a lot of the experience and understanding that was needed and to do the things to work, help this team, lead this team and provide the results that were needed and expected by the organization.

That is so great. Colleen, what are you hearing Louise say? That's beautiful. Louise?

Sure. Hearing a couple different things. I love the fact that she can reflect back and notice that she was operating on a set of assumptions that clearly were not the same assumptions of, let's see, the other senior leaders who were dividing up the territories. Right. So when you, when finally the new market areas were unfolded, you found that you were in a little bit of a new situation. Lots of change, New teams, two smaller areas with two Two teams that you'd never worked with before and you were unfamiliar with. And so it sounds also like as you reflect back once again, you're recognizing that in some ways it was an opportunity to. Because you had developed a lot more ppk, personal practical knowledge around your personal leadership journey. So it felt like what you said was you're almost feeling a little bit more prepared for that type of challenge at this point in your career.

Did she get you right, Louise?

I think she got me right. And also as I reflect back on it, there were specific reasons why they moved me is because I had, you know, with my current team at the time, had really developed this high performing team that was really exceeding anyone's expectations for what could be delivered from that area.

I think it was deliberate too. I think the. And the other thing you did that was just really cool. So many people see things that come to them as leaders, as problems. And what you saw was an opportunity. And in one sense, that little bit of self talk that we do behind our ears, if we treat something as a problem, we treat it very differently than treating it as an opportunity to move forward. So given we understand what you were looking at, tell us some of what you did in order to really galvanize that team and pull them together.

Well, I think the first thing I really had to do and I took notes here, so I didn't want to miss anything.

You're great.

Is I really had to understand first, you know, what is the objective, what do I want to accomplish as a leader? I knew what I wanted to accomplish was to develop a high performing team that would deliver long term consistent results. And in doing that, and have them do it even if I'm out of the picture, because they would have the processes in place, they would have the PPK in place. So understanding, okay, what is my objective as a leader. But then I had to take a step back and understanding that I had to take a step back and really understand certain things. I had to understand not only the teams but the individuals that I was being asked to lead. I had the understand the environment that they were working under, the leadership environment, their personal environment, and then understanding the insurance environment and the business of the business and what were some of the challenges and also what are some of the opportunities and the pain points that they had been experiencing and trying to deliver on the expectations of the organization. It's really understanding that of just taking a pause and stepping back. I also understood I had to do something to give myself time because one of the jurisdictions that I had responsibility for, was bleeding from a profitability perspective. And there was a lot of angst around this. And so I knew that I had to have the right conversations with the right people to give them confidence that I understood what was going on and that it was going to take some time to work through it. But we will have a process, we will have a structure and a strategy that will lead us ultimately to getting this area to profitability. So that is also important. And at the same time, it's understanding what was critical, what would be critical with this new team. And what was critical was building trust, okay? And not just in building trust with me, but building trust with each other. And that was just baseline. That was just foundational. And so in understanding that, I recognized that everything that I did, I had to model. It would be used as a model for the people that I led. I would have to exhibit the behaviors that I wanted my team to adopt and exhibit. So I had to be very intentional around that work. And I understood that that first meeting would set the stage, and it would either make it or break it.

So.

And, Ray, if you recall, just the conversations that we had around developing the framework and the agenda for that first meeting. Yeah.

Yeah. Very intense. We went through a lot of pieces on that. And I will tell you those that are listening. Louise practiced a few things beautifully, and then she extended that practice beyond anything that she and I talked about together. But she wanted them to, first of all, develop a sense of trust with her. And the only way to do that is to get to know her. And she chose to do that through conversation, and then she went through a very clean and clear process. What is the situation that we're facing, given our mission, given our vision of success? Right. What is the situation that we're in? And then what are the complexities? And then what are the questions that we have not yet answered and ones we may not have even asked? And then they created a course of action. It was just unbelievable. But Louise's presence in that meeting was all about, I am here so that you get to know who I am. And I want you to understand clearly I intend to be trustworthy. If I promise you something, I will deliver it. I remember that so clearly, Louise and I could just watch the room leave into you as you set the stage for that. Colleen, what are you hearing and getting out of this piece we're doing? You were great at that, by the way. Louise.

Well, it's not surprising that they intentionally moved you to this new market area to really pull people together. Because I'm hearing lots of great leadership characteristics that. That's exactly, exactly what happened. A big thing that's resonating with me is when you talk about. You paused to sit back and reflect and to really think about how can you intentionally model the behaviors that will develop trust, that will align expectations, that will demonstrate your authenticity and transparency as a leader? And those really, really resonated with me as well as. I mean, I just love the fact that you also keyed in on the importance of trust and demonstrated that through your behavior. Many people talk about these words, right? I went to, you know, a training, and I learned all about trust, you know, and then they stab you in the back the first chance they get. And so it's really what I heard a lot of was being intentional and aligning what you believed and what you wanted to see with your team in your own personal leadership behaviors.

How are we doing, Louise? We getting you on this one?

Absolutely. And when I was listening to Colleen, it was just. It took me back to that meeting, and I get goosebumps and chills when I think about it, because people really opened up and they shared what they were thinking and feeling. But I had to do that as well. You know, I had to become vulnerable and not being afraid of sharing some of my experiences and those that didn't go well and why and what I learned from them and how those experiences made me a better leader. And I just. Gosh, when I think back to that meeting and just what happened and how the executives opened up and just willing to share some of their experiences and their reactions and responses to those experiences, it was. It was powerful.

Louise. And here's something I watched you do. When we work with a new team, it is so critical to make the space safe so people can say what's on their heart. Louise. Never, never made somebody's thinking or feeling wrong. Never. And that allowed anybody else who watched that happen, because somebody's out there going, I wouldn't have said that to the boss, you know? And then all of a sudden, because of the way you acknowledged them and responded in such a respectful way, it opened the door to be even a greater opportunity for them to talk so we could really say, tell us the truth. What are you facing? What are you struggling with? And so, Louise, there's a piece you did that I want to just highlight for the listeners. She never acted like you have a problem. She never did. She said this. I am part of this with you. And whatever you're running into in terms of problem, that's a leadership collective issue. We own that with you. It's not. You have this to deal with. We own it with you. That acknowledgement of that, Louise, was magnificent. Do you remember that? And how they reacted to that? Please talk about that a bit.

Yes, I remember that because it was all about what was an important part of this. Although I don't think of that meeting, that it was really presented that way. But I knew what I wanted to have happen, and that was create the environment that was safe enough so people can talk about their challenges. Right. That it would become this shared learning environment for people. Because, you know, someone over here may be, you know, challenged by this, but I will guarantee somebody else is experiencing that same challenge, and maybe they're at a different place on that continuum of kind of solving that. So you can help, you know, help another person on the team. And that was. And when I think from that day and fast forward, moving, moving forward, just the way that that played out in helping us collectively talk about how we can move forward.

So magnificent. So I'm going to let Colleen play with this, but I'm going to kind of nudge her slightly. One of the things that great effective leaders do, right? Effective leaders, they broker the necessary resources, and sometimes it's the person you're sitting next to in the audience. But if they don't have a space to talk about their challenge, no one even knows that they're facing that. Colleen, talk through a little bit what you're hearing now. That was great, Louise.

Sure.

Well, it's funny you mentioned space, because I was thinking about this as Luis was kind of reliving and retelling the story of the meeting. One of the things that she did was, is she created the space for the conversation to take place. I can't tell you how many meetings I've been in where the senior leader just stands up. And while they're authentic, they're being authentic, they're sharing their heart. Then they're like, okay, thank you very much. Gotta go. Bye. And they turn around and head off of the stage. They don't create this space. So, number one, the one thing that really came up to me was that she took the time to create the space. So that's the big piece. But the other piece, which is even more significant is the way you said. And I intentionally ensured I was creating a safe space. So just creating this space isn't necessarily enough. Right. It's the first step. Right. We want to give everyone an opportunity to state what's in their heart and mind. To surface those things that are getting in their way to say what, what they need and what some of their challenges are so everyone in the room can hear it. Because if not, we're not tapping into the wisdom of the room. We're only listening to the one leader's experience and maybe one or two people that share their thinking. And what a waste. What a waste.

That's beautiful. Yeah, we worry about that, you know, all the yes guys and yes gals, you know. Yep, you're right. Yep, you're right. And then we get stuck. Louise, what are you thinking?

Yeah, you know, there are a couple of things. I'm on a backtrack here. Just a moment because one of the things I was deliberate about and I think it helps in this area is I did not ask anybody about their experience with any of the new team members. Didn't want to know it. Didn't want to know it because I didn't want to have any preconceived notions about anyone on my team. I didn't want to have any judgment about anyone on my team. So I deliberately did not go out and seek that information. So that was not a part of my step back process. No. Okay, I'm going to meet you where you are right now. I'm going to meet you where you are. Okay. Now, you know, having. Having said that, and that helps with creating this trust and this learning environment. And I think one thing as a leader that you really have to be careful of is you have to be in every conversation listening and you talk about that brokering because some people will, you know, it's just their personality. They're going to jump in, but you have to notice who's not so. And seeking them out of saying, oh, Colleen, I know you've worked in this area. Can you share some of your perspective to add to this discussion?

You just said the most powerful thing for the listeners to hear. Do your best to avoid preconceived pictures of the people you're going to lead and meet them where they are. Meet them where they are. Otherwise they will hide themselves. They'll hide themselves for the whole thing. And just what Louise just. I just watched her do that so many times. I noticed. Ray, you didn't say anything. I noticed. Mary, you didn't say anything. I'm wondering if you have some thoughts about this that you haven't brought forward yet. We'd really like to know if you do. And of course, there was never a demand. It was an invitation that invitational work is all about learning Leaders Helping us learn as a leadership team. Okay, we have more to talk about. This is.

And Ray, you just said something and I don't want this to get lost. The terminology, I was wondering. It kind of. You're not saying I feel or I think it's. You know, as I was listening to you, Ray, I was just wondering. That's a totally different tone.

Louise and I, we spent hours talking about language and how words like those are gerunds. Listening, wondering, feeling. They are invitational in nature. They pull you into the conversation. One of the people that Louise and I worked with struggled with this because they tended to their language, felt judgmental. And what Louise gave them was, you know, you could do something like this. I'm noticing this and I'm wondering this. How am I. Am I getting you correct? Oh, that language. This is. The conversational leadership is all about improving your personal practical knowledge on using specific phraseology and words that open the room up, open people up and give them a space to be themselves.

And also giving the person a chance to. Well, first of all, you want to always acknowledge what they said and making sure that you heard correctly what they said. So always said. Okay, Colleen, where I was listening to you, this is what I heard. Is this right? So you just give a person if it's not. Because sometimes we don't hear things correctly or we don't hear it the way it was intended. So it's always acknowledging what they said because it's bad when you don't acknowledge a person and just kind of understanding that giving a chance or if you did not hear them correctly, that it can be clarified up front.

I am who I am because of who we are. And if I'm living in a community. That's an old Ubuntu saying phraseology that if I don't actually take the time. And Louise just laid out four things for you. Those that are listening. The heart of this work lives in the four things she just mentioned. Acknowledge what the person said and repeat it back. So what I heard you say was this. Am I getting that right? Second, confirm. Am I getting that right? Third, respond. And four, respond respectfully. Those things are at the heart of this work that we do. I know we're slightly over time. I hope those of you listening have enjoyed this. I have enjoyed the hell out of this. This has been great. Remind you of those listeners. Effective leaders generate and sustain quality relationships because the relationships produced desired results. How do you get relationships? Intentional professional conversations. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening. I'm going to get Each of my partners here to give you a final thought as we go out the door. I invite you all, unless you're driving, to turn off the video and the or the podcast and just reflect on what resonated most with you. Colleen, what resonated most with you today?

I think in the story, the theme I could say and pattern that surfaced for me is intentionally creating safe space. I always like that, you know, thinking about and helping leaders across the country think about what are they doing, how are they actively, every day and in every conversation, intentionally growing safe space with their colleagues and with their team members so they can create, as Louise said, a high performing team. A team that shares information with each other. A team that collaborates in a true fashion so they can produce those desired results.

Super, super, super. Thank you. Thank you. Louise, what resonated most with you in this conversation today?

That we just didn't have enough time. Okay, what did I say?

We're not done. We are not done. I love you. You both are great. This is. This will continue. The feedback we've received on Louise's podcast has been wonderful and we want to continue this. There's much. See that, ladies and gentlemen, one little story had so many features and so much for me to learn from. And that's what I resonate with all the time when I'm hanging out with these two people I care about so much. Thank you for listening to us at JLC Media. You can find us@gojlc.com you can listen to us on YouTube or you can listen to us on your Spotify or podcasts from Apple. Whatever you have, we're there and we'll be there for you. If you'd like to talk to us further, feel free to hop on our site. We offer complimentary discovery phone calls. You can have a chat with one of us and talk about how our services might meet your needs going forward. Thank you for giving us part of your biggest asset of this century, your time. Thank you for that and we wish you well. And if you're listening to us through the holiday season and happy holidays to all, thank you for being with us. Sincerest thanks for listening to this episode.

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