Leader to Leader: Mindfulness and Focus

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us here at JLC Media. My name is Ray Jorgensen. I am the founder of jlc. I've been doing this work of conversational leadership for over two decades and have a privilege today of having on board with me one woman who has been with me for a very long time. But we won't say how long because I don't want to tell anybody how old anyone is. But both women have been with me for a significant amount of time working on the disciplines that are underneath the rubric called conversational leadership. They are just fabulous people. I think you're going to love this one a lot. This one is going to center on making sure I get to know people and be very mindful about how I put practice getting to know people. Relationships are everything. The greater the quality of the relationship, the greater the results. We all know that and Louise does that beautifully. So does Colleen. So it's an opportunity for you to hear from two great people about how they do this work in their everyday leadership conversations. So let me get them to introduce themselves. Luis, real quick, tell us about you and and how you got on this podcast with me. So good to have you.

Thank you, Ray, as always. It's a pleasure to spend time with you here today and with Colleen as well. I am a retired senior vice president with State Farm Insurance companies. I was with state farm for 33 years before I retired. So I started as an agent and just worked my way up through the ranks. In my retirement. I am involved with several for profit and non for profit boards and I realized while I was with State Farm that my passion is about around people and making people, helping people achieve what they want in life and also developing high performing teams and processes that are sustainable. That's what really gives me joy. And I'm continuing to do that in retirement with a lot of boards.

So Colleen, tell me what you just heard from Louise and then you introduce yourself. That was really good stuff.

Well, I got to tell you, Louise, sounds like you're not retired at all, right? Sounds like you're really super busy. But no, it's been a pleasure to meet you, to work with you and I didn't know 32 years, that is incredible. Working your way up in leadership and now to retire as an SVP is such a remarkable accomplishment. But she just kind of a couple things that I already knew just about your leadership and that you are people focused and that was evident in your leadership journey throughout State Farms. So I'm sure those boards you're working with are really finding value in your interactions and support. But for those of you who are listening probably heard my voice a lot on this JLC podcast. I'm on almost everyone, and it is a pleasure to do these with Ray. This one is going to. I'm really interested in this focus on mindfulness when working with jlc. I call them in dog years. So I want to say it's 12 or 13, but, you know, each podcast I'm adding another year. It seems like I can't remember when I wasn't working with Rick. So it's a pleasure to be here today and looking forward to learning from Luis.

Hey, Colleen, can I say one thing? And I think this is important because some people may be thinking, okay, why? So people focus because organization wants results. But what I found, if you focus on the people, the results will come.

I have. So those of you that are listening, if you want to take one thing away, there it is. There it is. Leadership is a people business. And I had a friend and I'd love you to react to this. Louise and Colleen. She was a senior leader in the United States Navy Medical Corps. And she said, mission first, people always. I thought that was such a powerful statement that that's our deal, is working with people. What are you guys thinking?

Come on now, Ray. I don't need any of that soft stuff. What it reminds me of is how many times we've heard that. And I think, unfortunately, perhaps in the past, it's always been focused on the data and the numbers and the results. And I love what Luis laid on the table is you focus on the people and the results will come.

That's beautiful. There's a part there, too, that I had a State Farm leader just recently say to a group of sales leaders, you are not a spreadsheet. You are way more than a spreadsheet. And if we miss that, we missed the mark of leading you. It's someone who loves Louise Perrin, by the way, and has always admired her practice. And in his words, he said, I learned an incredible amount from watching how Louise interacted with people in what I believe was a very mindful way. So back to you, my friend. What are you thinking about this mindfulness stuff in leadership?

You know, mindfulness is, I think it's foundational to leadership. And I didn't understand that early on in my career. And I was fortunate enough to go to be part of a development activity, our development class at imd, and it was called Mobilizing People. And when I got there and started looking at the Curriculum and just all of the activities that we would be involved in, they were all about me. You know, it wasn't about other people. It was about me as a person, as a leader. And I would say, wait a minute. It's about mobilizing people.

What about them?

What about them? And I got it. I got it. Because you have to know who you are, understand who you are as a person, as a leader, before you can think about leading other people and mobilizing other people. And. And it was then I really got into mindfulness and the practice of mindfulness. We started every class with a mindfulness activity. And just in how it really kept me focused, just the simple exercise of paying attention to your breathing and how that keeps you focused when you just listen to your breathing and how that translated to more in a business setting is that it kept me present and really listening to what others were saying. So it kept me focused on, okay, what are they saying? Not just what are they saying, but what. What are they feeling while they're saying this? It just. It made me listen much more deeply in really trying to understand that individual.

Colleen, what are you hearing? What are you thinking?

Yeah, I think it was pretty cool because as you were talking about, you know, taking a course, you know, you're like, I'm going to mobilize these people. I'm going to really, you know, inspire them. And then it was a. Of course, really on personal reflection, it sounded like. And self awareness. I think the thing that rose with me is one of the leaders that we've studied, Dee Hawk, and when he talks about situational leaders and leadership, and the first place you lead is self. And I think many times people miss that piece. Right. Where's the first place you lead?

My team.

I'm in charge of this team. I'm supposed to produce results. So I like that sense of focusing on self and developing self first. So that's one thing that definitely surfaced. The other thing I think that surfaced there, Luis, when you were sharing that story, was really one of our learning conversation guidelines that listen to understand and the importance to truly be present. Because if I'm not listening to what people are sharing, to their ideas and to their thoughts, many times they can tell, right? They can tell. And then what does that say about me as a leader? So I really like that emphasis and focus on breath to stay present and in the moment.

And I also think, Colleen, what it does is when you truly listen to individuals and then how they're interacting, the group is interacting and where their conversation is Going, you have to be comfortable with saying, you know what, I had this agenda, but this is not what the group needs right now. So I'm just going to get rid of it and I'm going to let this go where it needs to go. Because this isn't about me. It's about what the group needs or that individual needs.

I love that. What I'm hearing you say is it's recognizing when you're leading a meeting, when it starts to shift because the conversation is getting deeper, more candid. It's letting go of what you thought was going to get accomplished in that meeting because you're recognizing and being mindful of the team, recognizing where that conversation is going. And I've got to tell you, that is something that you know is you need to be very intentional about. Many times leaders, they come with their agenda and that's what they. No, no, no, no. I'm sorry, Ray. No, no. We got to get back to number three. Because in their mind they need to get those things done instead of being mindful of being there in a space of service to the team.

Yeah. And then you find when you're willing to do that, when you're willing to let go of your agenda and just take it where the group, that's when the best learning occurs and that's where you start building and developing the things that lead to their. To high level results.

So Louise was doing something one time. I didn't know she was going to do this to me, but she did, which I loved about her. Everything was very spontaneous. And she said, ray, would you check us in today using a mindfulness activity? So I'll give you a little larger context and I'll let Louise respond to how the group reacted to it because I. But I really think she just was elegant and beautiful in this piece. So they were about to work with a state that they were struggling with to make a big course of action to increase the participation of people in that state in the products that the state farm sells. And Louise said, ray, we need a little mindfulness thing. So I had them tell a story one person at a time. And it started like this. I said, once upon a time, Louise Perrin became the senior vice president for this particular region. And then each person told, gave me one sentence. And you should have seen the way the room focused on whoever was talking. There was no way I could leave because you didn't know who was going to go next or what they might say. And then it would be my turn to talk. And then it was in the sense of breathing, taking a breath. It allowed that room to collectively breathe into the space about what they had created so far. And then the second part I did. And now what are we looking forward to? Louise, do you remember that? That was very, very powerful. Talk to us about how that landed on you as a leader.

It was powerful. And I rem that day, that experience very, very vividly because it was different than what anyone was expecting. And, you know, we were bringing people together who many of them had not worked with one another before. And I just think of going through that, you know, of asking that question and going around the room and letting people say what was on their mind. Just created this sense of vulnerability, even a sense of trust. Because I remember some people didn't go right away. They were holding back because they wanted to see what would happen. And then they thought, oh, this is.

Real.

Rio, and I have a role to play. Yes. Beautiful, beautiful. Colleen, how does that land on you? I think I shared that story with you once before.

Yeah, you have. And I think that it's a great example of some creative tension. Right. It's something like that helps create a focus, because just like Louise said, you're not sure who's going to go next and who's going to say what. And so that sense of leaning in and being so present because you're curious to see who's going to say, you know, what is that next person going to say? And how might this story end up and turn out? So I really like that as a great example of a creative way to really develop trust within a team. Many times, you know, some of our clients go, I don't have time for that, Ray. I'm too busy. I got to get through my agenda. I can't build any. I don't have mindfulness time. My goodness. And I think that that is such a great, practical example of just taking two minutes before you dive into your regular agenda to really be intentional about developing a space of mindfulness and enhancing those relationships amongst the team.

Yeah, it's. You know, I don't know if you recall this specific.

I am getting old. I may not.

But. And again, my focus is on people and helping others, you know, achieve their dreams and their aspirations. And so we brought in a group of agents who either used to perform at a higher level or could perform at higher levels. And what was interesting is it was a group that pretty much had been ignored, and we brought them in, and knowing that there probably wasn't a lot of trust, we had to develop that Trust. There was even, I feel, some anger in many of them. And just through a series of honest questions and creating this caring environment, we got everyone in that room to open up to the point where some of them started crying and really admitting that they were embarrassed that they are where they are and want to do better. And we got down to the whys and how we could support them in helping them achieve what they wanted out of their careers. It was just an amazing. It was just an amazing experience. And we took those learnings, shared them with our sales leaders and how. You can't. You have. You can't. You can't lead every person the same way, and you have to understand them as individuals and tailor your, you know, your leadership approach to where they are and what's important to them. I don't know if you remember that, Ray.

That's one that you can't forget. One of the gentlemen in the room, he said it to the room. He said, I loved State Farm until I felt like they ignored me. And they ignored me over and over, and I still want to love him. I don't know how to do that. And he actually turned to Louise and said, I want to do it again. I want to return to those feelings. Louise, that was just. What are you hearing, Colleen? This is just. That experience was stunning. And they used to have names for these agents. I don't know. I don't remember. But they were not nice names, right? And none of them. None of them that were in that room wanted to sustain the distance that they felt they had from Louise and from the company. What are you hearing and learning here, Colleen?

I think that's a great example of demonstrating. What does it look like to be mutually invested in someone's success? Louise didn't just send them a memo or ignore them or stand in judgment of their performance. She created an experience to learn to suspend certainty of what might be the root cause of these issues, but to bring people together, to give them a space where they could discuss it, where she could perhaps learn from their perspective and find a way to support them in the example of this gentleman, to support him as he tried to find his way back to those feelings, those positive feelings that he had about State Farm. So I think that's huge. And the other big piece I'm hearing is meet people where they are. You know, everybody responds differently. And we can't just say, well, you know, what if I just sent the numbers out to everyone, all of my agents, and just told them, you know, via a memo that they need to do better. You're. Some people will be like, damn straight. Not a problem, boss. I'm going to get right on this. But not everybody's like that. So I really like this sense of being mindful of who your people are and meeting them there.

She did a beautiful job not identifying anybody, but talking about the themes that were present in that set of conversations and brought that back to the larger leadership team. Louise, that was magnificent. What you did there really was.

If I could just build on one thing that Colleen said around judgment. And when you. With mindfulness, you really have to suspend judgment. You have to get away from judging because, you know, the first thing you have to realize is, I myself, I'm not perfect. You know, I can look back in my past and see some things that, whoa, I would have done a lot differently knowing what I know today. So, you know, you can't judge people, you know, because there's a saying, if you don't know better, you can't do better. So a lot of times it's. It's not the not knowing. And, you know, why do people do what they do? You have to understand that. And until you have a deep conversation with them or you have walked in their shoes, you don't understand that.

Louise, there's a distinction here that you just brought up. Again, I drew this picture for your team many times that there is a learner path and a judger path, and the learner path brings you to spaces of community, relationships, and desired end states. The judger path just drops you right down into the pit of misery, and we can't get out of it. It's like, I'm stuck there. And, you know, we don't have time today to talk about drama. But people, some people like being victims. And much of the media today produces all their stories about we're victims of this, we're victims of that. We're victim. And what people do when they think they're victims is they commiserate. In this particular session that Louise led. Not going to have that. We're not going to have that. We're going to state openly and honestly our feelings, what happened to us and why we are where we are. And then she afforded them an opportunity to see the difference between thinking and judging. It's not the same. It's not the same thinking and judging. Judging kind of keeps you stuck in your mindset, and you start to drift down and down and down rather than thinking, caring, trust, and see the big piece that Louise did, too. And this is so, you know, in the mindset place they got to know her better. I can't trust somebody I don't know. So she sat with them. She didn't sit up on a pedestal. She sat in a circle around a table, but was a circle and they were all the same and they got to know who she was. And that was just great. Louise. Yes. I'll never forget it. Colleen, we're coming to the end of our time here. Give us a little summation of what you took from this one, Louise. This one was great.

Yeah, I think there were so many different pieces, but I really think some of the things that I'm learning from your experiences and your stories, Louise, is really when we're thinking about being a mindful leader, one of the things you talked about was meeting people where they are recognizing people can't give what they don't have. Right. So have that conversation to be curious, to learn. And I really do. Like I heard, listening to understand. And the final big piece that I'm taking away is that sense of staying out of judgment. Because the second you go down to the point you mentioned that, that judger path, you're really doomed. Right? You're no longer focused on the people piece and really helping support them and being mutually invest invested in their success. You're kind of shifting it and it feels different and it has, and it impacts the team as well.

So really good. Really good. And I think this happens all the time. This is not the only time in the last year or so that people have spoken to me from big corporations and said, I feel almost like I've lost my way and I don't know what connects me anymore. And what Louise did in that session is she brought them connection back. We didn't save everybody, solve everything, but boy did we learn. And Louise took those learnings and brought them forward. All right, my friend, give this audience something to take away from this conversation. This was superior, ladies. Superior conversation. Louise.

Well, the thought I have from this conversation, Ray and Colleen, is that we're living in an environment right now where we can't have a lot of face to face interactions. So how do we create that connectivity? Like we hat with those individuals in that room and develop that sense of trust because now leaders are having to lead people who, you know, our new, our new hires who have never been in the corporate office, they don't understand the corporate culture any. So how do you develop this sense of connectivity, this learning environment, this sense of trust of where we're all mutually invested in one another's success? I Think there are ways you can do that, but you have to be very intentional and have some specific strategies around. How do you. How do you build that environment of trust, of learning virtually?

There is a way to create connection and intimacy. And to Louise's point, you've got to know what those ways are. If you aren't practicing those ways, these meetings will tend to be even more deadly than the in phase ones. So please, please listen to Louise and Colleen today and if you'd like to visit with us about how to do that, we right now have a. I think it's hundreds and hundreds of people in the last two years through Covid that have chosen to stay with us, stay the course with us, and have learned how to create a virtual presence. A virtual presence that is caring, A virtual presence that allows people to find out, how are you really doing? Ladies and gentlemen, even today, I set the stage with a cpo. Those of you that follow us, you know what that is. They reacted to it. Close the loop. Very important we put some content on the table. And at the end of this conversation, both these women who are just superior leaders have given us a chance to say, this is what resonated with me, and this is something I'd like to let you know that is, believe it or not, what a great meeting could look like. Call us, please, gojoc.com we will offer you a absolutely free discovery conversation with any of the JLC team. And I'm sure Louise would be happy to talk with anybody who wanted to hear from her, too. This is, this is a collaborative environment and we. I unconditionally love these two women. Absolutely. And I'm going to end with, if I can get it right, a little Mother Teresa quote. Because Louise and Colleen made this point most times. Mother Teresa was one of my people I think about in the context of caring and leading people. And she said, the most unequal thing is the equal treatment of unequals. The most unequal thing is the equal treatment of unequals. We're all different. We all need different supports and we all need different, different leadership responses. Thank you for being with us today. This is JLC Media. My name's Ray. Thanks for showing up and giving us some of your time today. Take care. Sincerest thanks for listening to this episode of the Everyday Leadership Conversations podcast. The Jorgensen Learning center offers a variety of programs for individuals and organizations to enhance their communication and leadership skills. To find out more about programs and upcoming webinars, check out our events page@gojlc.com.