Leadership Presence

Foreign Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us here at JLC Media. My name is Ray Jourgensen. We are all part of jlc, the Jorgensen Learning Center. We have very often been called the Jorgensen Leadership Center. We're happy with either. But mostly if you're a great leader, you are a great learner. So today we're going to kick off a whole session, a series on with itness. What is leadership? With itness, we're going to do it today by backing in to a space called presence. What does it mean to say this leader is present and when is a leader not present? We will develop a common understanding about what does it really look like if somebody has strong leadership presence and what are some examples of when it doesn't happen. At the end, each of you will be able to think about your own practice as a leader and use three little recommendations that I will give to you at the end about what to think about before your next meeting, before the next talk you're going to give, before the next anything that you might do where you are showing up as leader. So with that said, Colleen, what did you hear me say? And then Sharon, add on to what you hear Colleen say.

Sure. What I heard you say is that today we're going to be talking about leadership presence and both my colleague Sharon and myself are going to be giving some examples and non examples of perhaps leaders that we've worked with or that we've seen know who have demonstrated these qualities and who haven't. So really, at the end of our time, you mentioned three specific recommendations on or takeaways perhaps that we can implement in our daily leadership conversations. Really to be focused and intentional about being present in our conversations moving forward.

Excellent, Sharon.

It's a great summary. Colleen and I would only add to it that we want to make sure that we're giving the tips because it's great to hear the examples, but we also want to make sure that they're examples that we can apply to our daily work and lives. That was the other thing I heard.

Beautifully stated, ladies. Leaders happen and leadership happens. It happens all the time. It could be if you have children or grandchildren and they say, well, I'm having this awful time with X or I'm having this wonderful time with X. It's an opportunity to show up as a loving leader. Parents are loving leaders. The behaviors really aren't any different whether I'm in a boardroom, a meeting arena or somebody giving a keynote address. It just doesn't matter. They'll be there And I think you'll enjoy these pieces. Knowing the two of you, you're going to have lots of examples of this. And those of you that are listening, you can transfer this immediately to your next conversation. Your next conversation on the telephone with somebody that works with you. Could be a leadership conversation and probably is. And your presence really matters. With that said, let me pivot to you, Sharon. Identify someone that you've seen over the years that you said, boy, that is a leader that has incredible presence. Tell me somebody like that.

You know, when I was, I was ready for the tips and what makes it. He got me with this one.

That's good. This will give you a chance to really become very authentic and heartful. So come up with one.

Yes. So I'm going to say there's a gentleman, actually, because, you know, my field is athletics. There's a gentleman within athletics. I'm not. Should I share his name or should I not share his name?

Probably just say his first name, Kevin.

And Kevin walks into a room confident. And what I like about Kevin, and this comes to the tips, is that he listens and he makes his thoughts and he makes his presence about empowering others. So he genuinely listens to what is being said or is able to tune in right away to what's needed by those in his presence. And he's able to provide some meaningful examples and meaningful advice, meaningful suggestions, uplifting examples to those that are around him. So when Kevin walks into a room, he just draws everyone's attention to him and they seek him out. So Kevin is who I think of as a natural born sort of leader.

Interesting. And I think there are natural born leaders and then there are leaders that have been nurtured to be leaders, that learn how to be leaders. So let's talk about Kevin just a little bit more. You said one of the things that he did was he really listened. Tell me a little bit more about that. He listened in what way? That made people feel very, very engaged. What did he do?

You know, we talk about active listening, right? So oftentimes we'll be in a room with someone and having a conversation and you're sharing a personal experience. And what do they do? They come back with you with something that's happened to them or their personal experience. And that's not what you are engaging in a conversation with them about. You want to tell them what's happened to you and you want to engage in a conversation about getting some help or with this situation for yourself. And they're throwing their problems. Let's Say onto you. What I loved about Kevin and what I love about Kevin is that he listens and then he does engage you by asking questions. Well, tell me this. Well, what did you mean when you said that? Well, what happened when you did that? Well, did you try this the whole conversation? The whole time? He will be present in the conversation and totally focused on what he can do to help you and coach. You know, I'm all about the servant leadership mindsight, and Kevin is definitely in that mindsight. So that's what I love, is that he makes that time that he's talking with you about him. I'm sorry about you and not about him, about him. That's what, to me, a true leader is all about.

So what I'm hearing you say is when Kevin engages in listening to somebody, he doesn't do what is very typical. Let me tell you a story from my background that's similar to yours, which, by the way, is called commiseration, especially if we're working on a problem. And instead, Kevin listens, makes sure that he understands, and then actually asks you questions. Did I understand you properly?

Absolutely.

That's what Kevin does, what I just did. Those of you that are listening, the key is to get into the space of what the person said, acknowledge what they said, confirm that you understood it, and respond respectfully. There's so much drama in the world today that people are always trying to be victims or rescuers. And whether you play the role of victim, rescuer, or persecutor, you automatically produce more drama. So if I start helping you when you don't want the help, I'm rescuing you. I'm actually producing more drama. And my leadership presence gets depleted because I no longer can be the coach on the side. And what Kevin did obviously started to coach you or coach whoever he's talking to with questions, ideas. Do you have any? What do you think about this? You know, this is such a subtle but powerful statement. And notice the stance that he brought forward was engage you to understand, make sure, confirm that he understood, and then talk a little bit more about what it is that is holding you hostage temporarily. That's really great stuff. Thank you for that. And those of you that are listening, please note that there's a couple of big conversational leadership tools tools in there. Acknowledgement, confirmation that you understood, respectful response and then inquiry, balance that in. Because anybody can say, well, you know what you should do, Sheriff, you know, all of a sudden, I lost you. You know, look, I didn't ask you for advice, Ray, but all Of a sudden, I decided, you need some, so I'm going to give you some. Right. And I've seen people get pissed off because they don't listen to the advice. I'm like, what is wrong with this? It wasn't the intention. So very, very, very cool. So leadership presence has to do with that engagement, that listening, that stance of learning, and then embracing that person in a way that you can coach forward, Coach forward from that space. Really, really good. So, Colleen, first tell me, what are you hearing in my interaction with Sharon? Then I'm going to ask you to come up with an example.

Sure. I'm hearing a couple very specific things that this leader did that other people can do to embed in their conversations, to really, really create this space of a quality leadership conversation. And one of those was absolutely closing the loop. To your point, many times we're not present. We're not necessarily listening. We're distracted. And then I think I understood what Sharon just shared. But until I stay present and close that loop and say, this is what I heard you say, Sharon, am I getting that right? I might be running down a rabbit trail to fix something or to do something, because that's what I thought I heard. And the other piece that I really, really like is it's that leadership inquiry or just curiosity. It sounded like this is a great example of someone who stayed present and inquired. Because many times when we go to leaders, it's like we're going to them. And to Sharon's point, you know, I'm just like, hey, man, what are some ideas? Let's broker some resources. Let's. Let's have a conversation in a dialogue. I don't need you to shoot on me and tell me what to do.

You should do this. Definitely, Colleen.

And then all of a sudden, I'm no longer listening. And to your point, Ray, I think that was my other big takeaway is sometimes leaders, they're like, oh, and I love Sharon. I want her to be successful. So I'm just going to hop in and give her some ideas. And how I did that when I was coaching in that particular sit and she's over there kind of going, well, that's not really helpful to me. So now it depletes my leadership presence because I'm not staying with her in the conversation and inquiring to see how's it going. What have you been trying? What are some of other ideas that you've had? Sharon, you know, when have you solved this situation before? So I think many times we bring the conversation back to ourselves, because that's just kind of what we do. Or we start shitting on people and closed down now.

That's beautiful. So, Sharon, what are you hearing in these two reactions to your words? What are you learning or thinking?

Oh, my gosh, so much right now from both of your comments, it makes me think, colleen, you hit the nail on the head. Because oftentimes we think that we want this other person. The other person thinks we want them to come in and solve it, and we don't. I feel as though that diminishes our personal leadership. Right. I don't need someone to solve my problem. You're just. You just want to engage in a conversation to go through possibly some ideas that you yourself will then evaluate and come up with the answer. And so I felt both of your comments were right on point. And someone who thinks they're a leader and thinks that leadership means they jump in there and solve the problem for others, that that's not a leader at all. And so this process, what Kevin does is he really does empower you and make you realize that, as the saying goes, you really know the answer. You just need to think it through a little bit and you'll come up with it. I had a math teacher who was amazing at doing that, and I'm laughing.

Because he's on this call. There he is right there.

Yeah. I actually think there's some way you can solve this yourself. Cher. Why don't you think about it a little bit more? And, you know, I'm involved with my daughter about thinking through how some parents will jump in and try and solve the problem for the youngster, no matter how old they are. Right. Rather than to create a stance that you both have talked about that is listening to engage and shift from you should do this to coaching. I believe you have everything you need to solve this problem. Let's talk about what are those needs? What are the resources you need? Rather than I'll be a resource because now I'm rescuing you rather than actually enabling you to be successful with your own wherewithal, with your own power. So notice that stance. The stance of that particular leader was to engage through listening, closing the loop and feeding back and then inviting that person to think about how to solve this problem themselves. Really good stuff. Let's do a leader from your background that you thought was really good. You go, Colin.

You know, I can think of several, and to be honest, several of them are part of our JLC leadership team that are incredible leaders. But I think I'm going To lean into one that actually was the dean of Lake Tahoe Community College, where I was so fortunate and blessed to have worked for several years. And there were actually. His name was Larry. And one of the things that I really appreciated was the fact that his stance, he was very inquisitive. That was one of the things that he brought forward. And he was always kind of wondering, what is Colleen doing over there running this incredible department? Because I mean, literally I was self generating revenue. So I was myself, and not many departments can do that. And so he was amazing about bringing me in, asking what was going on. And I think the thing is, when every time I engaged in a conversation with him, I felt like I was the only one in the room. Even if there were more people, he was so present. Even though as the, you know, dean of the college, he had so many things going on, he stayed present. He gave. The second thing he did was he gave space for me to respond and for there to be a true dialogue wasn't, this is what I need from you, you need to be doing this. It was truly, hey, things are going so well. You're getting some awards out there. Can you share with me kind of, kind of, you know, what's it really look like in this program as you're continuing to develop it and grow it? So the use of inquiry and sustained inquiry with continued closing the loop and respectful response created that safely dangerous space where I felt like, you know what? Then when things weren't going well in the budget and I needed some assistance, I could engage with him and have a difficult conversation because I knew, I knew he wouldn't be jumping down my throat and focused on blame. He would always be supporting a conversation to collaborate towards a solution.

Nice, nice. So Larry actually did, if I'm hearing you correctly, what I heard you say, and please make sure I got it right. What Larry did is he created a stance of learning. He was in learning with you, and the talk that he used was inquiry based. So Colleen helped me understand how this worked for you. What did you do so that the focus wasn't, I know how to do this better than you do. The focus was, it's okay if you did something that didn't work out just right. I simply want to understand what you did because what you did obviously produce some results that really matter. Did I get you right, Colleen?

Yeah, absolutely. And like I said, even when things are really good, they were really good. And then because of the relationship and the types of conversations we consistently had when things weren't so Good. I could go to him for assistance.

Yeah, that safe space comes through that constant acknowledgment, acknowledgement. Ladies and gentlemen, those of you listening, I just did a session last week with a group of private sector people, and one of the participants said, I've never been in a meeting where the meeting facilitator, quote, leader, whoever it is, so consistently acknowledge one another. Well, if your stance is in learning, if your stance is, I believe these people have great wisdom to offer, then my talk is going to be all about inquiry, all that inquiry and connectivity to the ideas that they give through story and example and metaphor. But the truth is the big stance is in learning, and the talk is inquiry. Going forward, what are you thinking and learning? Sharon?

Wow.

I mean, what stood out to me with what you both just talked about? I actually wrote a little note. The space, Colleen, when you said creating that safe space to engage in a conversation and develop that relationship before challenges arise.

Right.

Oftentimes, those that we report to, let's say, or you know, colleagues, we don't have those conversations until there's a problem. But having those conversations in a safe space before challenges arrive laid the table for you to then have the confidence to go in and chat when there was a challenge. And I loved that because that, to me was the critical piece that I took away and that I'm going to remember. You know, I try to make sure that my leadership style, quote, unquote, is to establish those safe spaces and have those comfortable conversations in the beginning about, tell me a little bit about yourself and how did you. What does your family look like? And get comfortable so that when there is a problem, that person feels they can come and chat with you. And yes, when I see them saying, hey, how are you doing today? Hey, how's the little one? I heard you went home early yesterday because he or she wasn't feeling well. We've got to have those little side conversations because as a leader, we want to say to them, what do you mean there was a problem? Why didn't you come to me? And you know, what's going to be the first thing you say? Well, you barely ever said two words to me. Why would I come to you when I'm having a problem? So I loved the fact that you said, you know, they gave you that space to engage, and then when there really was a challenge, you felt comfortable to bring it to them.

Yeah, actually, Sharon, that's really good. So this what I'm hearing is that Kevin and also Larry stayed in conversation with the two of you. So they actually built a high quality relationship. If they can do that and if leaders can do that, all of a sudden, we win. We win because the person can be vulnerable, admit what happened, tell you what was going well, tell you what I struggled with, tell you where I made a mistake, tell you where I was surprised, I thought I was doing something really good, and it fell apart. This ability to build that type of relationship comes from my stance of care, empathy, and learning. It is one of the most powerful things we can think about before we go into any meeting or in any conversation. What is my stance? And you both have played that out beautifully. The second is what's my talk and what's my focus? Well, obviously, if I'm just asking how your kid is, that is a statement of concern for somebody in my career. How are things going with you personally? How are things going with you professionally? Both matter because all of a sudden we are creating a real strong space for that human being to feel cared for, seen and respected. This is really just. I know for those of you that jumped into this particular podcast, this is our first one on leadership with itness, and we are building some space for us to continue this conversation about what are other opportunities for me to show up. The other part that in my study, getting ready for this one, the literature is very clear. It's not an introvert or an extrovert. It's not the charismatic crazy person that is the great leader. It is the person that shows up, engages, has great presence in engagement, excellent ability to inquire and keep the focus on the other human being. Those things are just really important going forward. Well, believe it or not, we're getting close to running out of time. So before I shift to the two non examples, I'm going to save non examples for my next podcast and we'll start off with a review of this one and we'll go to non examples next time. But before I do a little closing piece, I want to know just very heartfully, what is the one thing that, oh my God, that really struck me. And I'm going to take this with me going forward. Colleen, start us off on this leadership presence thing. What really struck you?

I think it was the part that you mentioned about depleting your leadership revenue, if you will, or your leadership wickedness and how especially new leaders, right? They jump in, they want to come, they want to be knowledgeable, they want to look like they have answers. And many times, I think what really resonated with me is the fact that when they show up, they're doing it in a heartful way. And yet sometimes if you don't have that leadership with itness and that self awareness of my talk focus and stance, how is it impacting others? You keep going down that road of telling Sharon what to do, thinking you're really giving them some sage advice when really what you're doing is damaging the relationship because you're not focusing on how am I supporting Sharon, how can I kind of help her and support her with the necessary resources to produce the desired results so the team wins. So I think it's that focus on the team and recognizing what am I doing, how am I showing up and am I really the desired result?

That's just beautiful. The stances in learning, the focus is, excuse me, on the team and the success of the team and making sure that person recognizes how valuable they are to the team. We've talked about this before. When I say to everyone, what is your number one responsibility in this organization? It is help the team win. What do I do to help the team win? So all of a sudden we're in that really powerful space with my stance and my focus to create opportunity for the team to win and my job as leader, guide on the side, coach, that's what I'm doing. I'm not here to tell you things. And you almost drifted us into the pit of misery. If I keep telling you what to do or what you should do, I am drifting down into the knower path, not the learner path, and I'll hurt the relationship. Excellent, Colleen. Thank you. Sharon, what resonated most with you and.

Why it has to be the value of those one on one conversations to develop the relationship because you can't. If you do want to help others and if you do want to be a resource and support for them, that only comes from having developed that relationship. And you know, when Colleen was talking about that, that is really the piece I'm going to take away that I've got to remember to continue to develop those one on one relationships and make, I guess, make the other person feel valued because we do but opportunity to develop those relationships. So the importance of showing them that they are valued and the importance of those one on one conversations to lead to the difficult ones if need be.

Well, they'll always happen. And that's so nicely stated. And Sharon froze for a minute. But I think those of you listening really got the gist of that beautifully. You just don't show up and say, okay guys, I'm now your leader. It's like, even if I am meeting you for the first time, it's not I'm your leader. Here's what I want you to do. So I'm your leader. Tell me a little bit about you. Tell me what your expectations are of me, and then I'll tell you what my expectations might be of you. But not until I know what you want from me. So if I'm going to so again, back to the three big things and Sharon, Colleen, you guys were absolutely wonderful on this. Those of you that are listening, remember leadership presence is about your stance, your focus and your talk. And sometimes you may have multiple stances. I need to show up in learning and I also may have another part of the meeting where I need to be sharing with you significant messages for action in order to galvanize a team. Pull us together. If you go to any ball game, if you've played a sport, you know the coach that is with their kids and not you can tell it in a heartbeat. It is with itness. Leadership presence is a part of of with itness. Go to any classroom in the United States of America. Walk through the door and if you can be invisible and they don't look at you, you can tell in moments whether those kids are with that teacher or not. With itness. Leadership. With itness. A fundamental component is leadership presence. I am so grateful you guys came here today and shared some time with us. Sharon, Colleen, I can't tell you how much I just made me just love you even more. I know you guys are fantastic. I hope you enjoyed this listeners and I look forward to seeing you@gojlc.com Please come to the site. You can see all of our podcasts, including this one when it drops. Take care of yourselves. Have a great time and work on that leadership presence. Thank you very much. Sincerest thanks for listening to this episode of of the Everyday Leadership Conversations podcast. The Jorgensen Learning center offers a variety of programs for individuals and organizations to enhance their communication and leadership skills. To find out more about programs and upcoming webinars, check out our events page@gojlc.com.