Leading Through Disciplined and Intentional Conversations

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Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us here at JLC. This is JLC Media Everyday Leadership Conversations. We have both podcast and YouTube opportunities for you to listen to this and view us if you choose to. We are very grateful that you're here and grateful that you took time to be with us. Today's conversation I think you'll find interesting because I'm already very curious about what my colleagues are going to say about this. And that essence of curiosity, I think is probably what drives all of us into this next space of learning. How can I learn more? The title of this one is Leading through Discipline Conversations. With that stated, keep in mind that JLC has a definition of leadership which is to enable. Enable a team to accomplish its shared dreams or shared purposes. Given that definition, right now the entire world is tired. Covid has worn us out. Zoom meetings have worn us out. Google meetings. Everything has just kind of like, wow. And what we are learning is that if held in the right manner, by that I mean practicing some of these disciplines, and they're not the only ones, but they're ones we practice, people tend to become more comfortable and more engaged in the meeting. Connectivity and intimacy happen in these meetings. It will happen here today. Because I already love these people that I'm online with. I don't have to do anything to care about them to the degree that I do. And if we practice these disciplines and protocols, people have a tendency to get better connected. We will develop a common understanding about what it really means to stay connected through any conversation. So that at the end of this, each of you, when you design your next conversation, and I do think they need to be designed, whether it's a meeting one on one or one on many, if you have a set of conversations, you can be extremely clear and intentional as a person listening about how to build context, purpose and outcome for these. So they're very, very intentional. So, Nicole, what are you hearing me say and what does that mean to you?

What I'm hearing you say, I loved what you just said. Every interaction should be intention. And the idea that we should always be thinking about that context. Why are we meeting in the first place? The purpose, what do I want people to have that common understanding around? And then the outcome, what do I want people to know or do differently as a result of the conversation that we're having? And the idea that we can use that not only in our really formal interactions and meetings, but in the everyday conversations that we have with people. So that's really kind of resonating with Me right now.

I love it. Every conversation is an opportunity to become an everyday leadership conversation. And the more disciplined you are, the stronger you become in creating connectivity. Thank you so much. Julie, what are you thinking and feeling now?

I think that the context is really important. I have conversations all the time with certain people in my family and they'll just throw something out and I know I do it as well. And I'm like, what? Where is this coming from? You know, it's just like, catch up. And it's like, what? Like, what are you talking about? So that context, but really allows you control actually of the conversation because you can set up the conversation in a way that sort of gives everyone a heads up of what your expectations are in the conversation and provides a little bit of background story so everybody knows where your head is, whether it's in the past or the future or the present, dealing with catch up or whatever it may be. So that's what I'm thinking about right now.

Well, you know, I work constantly on awareness, Julie, and what you just said reminded me if I'm not aware of what this sentence is connected to, it doesn't really mean anything to me. And then I'm searching for meaning and I get lost in the context. I can't even be curious anymore because I really don't know what's going on. So that was really, really good. Thank you so much. Joe, what are you thinking, learn and feeling?

I think the context. I hear you talking about the context being important and the ability to connect your conversation to whatever context you're working on right now as a leader. I think this is important, particularly in this time of COVID and lots of zoom and lots of FaceTime meetings because, well, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that people do not always understand how the dots connect in the way that a leader may. Indeed, I think this is the function of the leader, is to connect the dots. And sometimes I think in leadership positions, we get a little weary of doing that, connecting the dots because we do it a lot and we think it's obvious to everybody. So we're willing to kind of skip that and go to let's just talk about this or about that without providing the larger context that really grounds the conversation into the need for action and reflection and change.

That's really beautiful. Joe, there's a story I think I've shared with you, but not everyone. I was working for a dot com in the New York City area and one of their leaders who I just loved him, definitely a Gearhead and really powerful in technology. A subject matter expert asked me to come watch one of his meetings, and so I did. And he welcomed everybody. They even did kind of a check in, like, how's things going? And then he pivoted to this sentence, we all know why we're here, so let's pair up and get started in solving the problems that we're facing. They paired up. They started talking to each other. Fifteen minutes later, of the 30 people in the room that were paired up into 15 conversations, they were 15 different conversations. There was no connection to a list of. And at the end of the meeting, he said, how did that go? I said, well, they were very engaged. They were very interested in the conversations they were having. And I'm not sure what you wanted to get out of that or what you expected each of the people to learn and understand. Didn't happen. It did not happen. And he was such a gracious person. He said, let's just reconvene. And he did and did a CPO and had a very different 25 minutes with them paired up because. Because he clearly identified why we're here, what we hope you'll understand, and finally what each of you will know and be able to do at the end. So that little piece, that. And I think, Joe, you nailed it. You as a leader spend so much time thinking about connectivity to the larger purpose, we skip it. We just don't do it. We don't have time, a lot to do. And we hurry, hurry, hurry.

Really great story, Ray. I would suggest that if a leader, if ever you have that sentiment, if you're leading a meeting and you have that sentiment of, well, we all know why we're here, that a way to turn that quickly into a CPO kind of discussion is to make it a question and ask the group, why are we here? And then invite them into the conversation and let them define, you know, what they think the meeting is about. And again, if they're disparate viewpoints, it will very, very quickly emerge.

I love it, I love it, I love it. It's almost like saying you're going to give up some time, you're going to give up some time. Right now, very important, you know, asset is time. If it was worth your time, what would you get out of this and why should we talk about it? Oh, my God. All of a sudden, everything shifts and changes. I see you nodding, Julie. What are you thinking?

Yeah, I agree. Sometimes the meeting leader thinks they know what's happening on the deck plate or out in the office, and they could be completely off. And so by just taking a few minutes to ask, what would you really get out of this meeting? And even if it's the exact same thing, then celebrate it. You know, everyone's on the same page. But if not, then you, as the leader, have to decide, okay, why am I coming up with something different than my employees?

I love it. I love it. Julie. To that end, I had a friend who is the chief operating officer for a company, and there was one of the people that he leads was in trouble with some of their productivity and some of the. Some of the things going on in that shop. And he worked with me to create a cpl, and he did. And so he created the context, the purpose, the outcome, closed loop. And then I invited him to ask that person why they think they're there, and if that meeting was good for them, what would they get out of it? All of a sudden, it changed because he was like, I think I'm really in trouble, and I'm here to kind of deal with this. I will comply. I love my job. I love to work here. I'll do whatever you want me to do. I didn't realize I was in this kind of trouble. So it just shifted the entire conversation from we're going to follow the CPO and get to the end of this thing to an interaction that allowed that human being to bring forward what they hoped would happen if it was a useful and worthy meeting. So really good, guys. Nicole, what you thinking right now?

I'm really thinking about how important the relationship is. And what it's bringing up for me is sometimes as leaders, we have the agenda. We know what we think we're supposed to deliver or say or have conversations about or have all of this information that connects back to the larger purpose of this organization. And I need to communicate that out to everyone. If I'm not communicating all the details or communicating it just right, I haven't done my job. Where the real job of the leader is to cultivate these relationships, these quality relationships, so that you can have quality conversations that ultimately get you those results that you. You desire.

That's really, really well said. And I think the conversation is the relationship. And if we're having a conversation in a safely, dangerous space, it just gets better and better and better, and we have to keep reminding ourselves as leaders. Restate that. I want your thinking. I want to know what's on your mind. If I don't do that, then people are very gentle and kind. They probably will be quiet. Then they'll have a great meeting later in the parking lot or on a, on a text call or the. Or on social media, for God's sake. So go somewhere to talk about what happened in the meeting rather than right there. That's just elegant and beautiful.

It's within those conversations that people are going to create that connection to those. Those ultimate outcomes you want to achieve. They're creating that emotional outcome, their own meaning to what. Those outcomes are so beautiful.

Yeah. Because if they don't, well, they do anyway. We'd have no choice. We're constantly creating meaning. So the point about awareness and meaning, it's so important. So I thought I would do the following. And those of you that are listening, they don't know I'm going to do this. So this will be interesting for me as well as you. I'm going to give them each a role to play, and then they're going to play the role and I'm going to start a meeting and you'll get the idea right away about what this is all about. So, Nicole, you are the head basketball coach for the ladies at a high school. Okay. Joe, you are the head football coach. Julie, you are running the program for all of the kids that do very well and get into the National Honor Society through the National Honor Society sponsor. And I am your principal and we're going to have a chat. I called you in the afternoon. It was a last minute call in. And I'll explain that as we go forward. And you'll see how creating a context does something really, really strong for this. So get in your roles, gang. Thank you so much for coming in this afternoon to have this conversation. I really needed to talk with you and need your help. What has happened is the superintendent of schools went to a meeting yesterday and was told that the athletic eligibility and activity eligibility program has changed. The old guidelines are gone. There are new guidelines that we're going to have to follow moving forward. And actually, because of the COVID environment, they're going to kick in quickly. We always want to keep in mind that our major responsibility is to make sure all of our kids are socially, emotionally and academically ready to take the next step. So with that said, I would like to develop a common understanding with us right now about what these new features of the athletic activity eligibility program are so that each of you can teach them to your parents and to your kids. Julie, what are you hearing me say? What are you thinking?

I'm hearing you say that the eligibility for athletes has changed and it's important that we convey that to our students. So they're aware of it and their parents.

Yes. And it's not just athletics. It's also activities. So your National Honor Society kids might be affected, although somewhat unlikely. But it is likely that they might be affected in this work, too. And, yes, I do expect each of you to teach these new athletic and activity eligibility nuances to those parents and kids. That's great. Joe, what do you. As coach.

I'm sorry, I just want to say that I'm glad that you clarified that, because I didn't hear it. I heard that you were just talking athletes, and I was thinking, why the heck am I here? So I'm glad you clarified it.

Yes, I do understand that anytime I did do this with somebody who sponsored a club, they kind of turned me off. But I reminded them that the kids that you lead in your National Honor Society date all the other kids. And they know all the other kids, so it'll have some impact on them moving forward. So. Well said. Well said. Joe, what did you hear me say and what did it mean to you?

Yeah, so what I heard you say is that the rules around athletic eligibility are changing, and I would view this as a threat to our winning season. And so we have to figure out how to get control of this situation.

Beautifully said. And I do know how hard you personally have worked with a number of kids just to keep them eligible so they can continue to play. I get that. And it's exceedingly important that we continue to do that. And this may require more effort on our parts. And remember, what I expect you to do at the end is to teach the new changes to your kids and to your parents. So make sure that we keep that in mind going forward. Nicole, what did you hear me say my expectations are for you guys?

Well, in addition to what Julie and Joe shared, I also heard that these are going to be coming at us fast. We're going to be expected to really quickly turn this around and communicate and teach our players and our parents about these new eligibility requirements, because the COVID environment has demanded that we make these shifts and changes.

That's beautiful. Yeah. Playing time is reduced. The amount of exposure is reduced. So it's important that everybody that's in a club sponsored by, for example, Julie, they know what these new requirements are so they can help their kids understand them and move forward. Excellent. So out of role. So those of you that are listening, that was me practicing a cpl and then I closed the loop. And Julie beautifully recognized that I missed one of those Pieces. And then Joe added his own mind, went to Holy cow, boss. I've been working so hard with these kids so far. What am I going to do now? I mean, I've been killing myself to keep them eligible. Now what? And what about the season? If we don't win, then there's a number of kids who might miss the opportunity for scholarship, blah, blah, blah. All that's in there, you know what I mean? So each of you kind of gave me a good piece, but I really am curious to see whether or not any of you picked up the connection I made to the larger purpose of the house, of the schoolhouse. Did anyone pick that up?

I heard you talk about safety and to me that's kind of the larger purpose of why we're here in this role to begin with is to develop and honor our students and keep them safe and moving in a direction that is healthy and effective for them.

Very nice. So you interpreted something I said about purpose and turned it into keeping them healthy and moving forward, etc. I love it, I love it, I love it. Did anyone hear something else? Because I know I said it and it was. You didn't quite catch it yet. Anyone hear something more?

I heard you say that the superintendent went to a meeting and therefore that's the greater purpose here.

Well, certainly if the superintendent tells me to do something that's not illegal or immoral, I'm going to do it. Right? That's who I work with for. He is my direct report. But there's even something more that went by us in that one. Joe, did you hear something more?

I have to confess because I was focusing on the role. I was trying to be more short sighted and focus on the season ahead. And oh, by the way, I need a helicopter to dry the airfield out or the playing field. So no, I didn't hear it, but.

You sounded exactly like all my coaches. Is that what they do? They start to worry, how's my season going? What if I lose my tail? My running back, he's so good. On and on and on, all those things. So here is something I put in the context piece and I want you to react to. I wonder why I missed that. I said to you guys, remember, our fundamental purpose is to make sure that every kid is socially, emotionally and academically ready to take the next step. But notice how now that, by the way, is the connectivity part of the context work. How do we pull that in here so that people really see why this meeting is connected to a larger purpose? What are you thinking right this Second curious.

I remember hearing that, and I was like, yeah, you know, okay, well, maybe that's why I'm here, you know, because the academic part, because I missed, you know, that it was for more than just athletes. And I was like, okay, academic. I'm sure some of my kids are both academic and athletes, and. Okay. But I was still having a lot of cognitive noise in my head trying to figure out why the heck am I here and what does he want from me and what more is this going to require for me? So I really missed that because of what was going on in my head.

See, this is a great debrief because when anytime we start a meeting. And I did connect the dots, as Joe. Joe alluded to before, I brought it back to the larger purpose of why we're here. So how would we win? The way we win as educators is we enable every kid, in connection with their parents and caregivers, to take the next step after high school and notice how the cognitive noise just pops up right away based upon the role that you're in. That was really beautiful, Julie. More, more, more, more. What else are you thinking, Joe? What you thinking about this?

I'm wondering as we talk about this, and again, for the folks who will listen to the podcast, if it's not a little overwhelming to them as we talk about the pieces of this. I think it's sort of like if you were to do a detailed diagram of something that you do routinely. If you get up in the morning and go out and get in your car to go to work. Okay. If you flowchart that, it looks like a lot of steps and a lot of business and a lot of things that just are awkward, you don't do. Or if you tried to flowchart, you know, making your bowl of oatmeal, it just be a lot of stuff, you know, and do I really have to hit all those touch points to have an effective meeting? And so sometimes I think that that is a reason for leaders to procrastinate on building these very simple things into the. Into their process for setting up the meeting, starting the meeting, and moving forward in the meeting to get effective communication going. And so we've kind of taken this part and exploded it. I think when the. When the truth is that having the purposeful conversation about why are we here and how is this connected to the larger part is potentially two or three minutes of work at the beginning, which becomes essential to understanding the larger context and having a successful discussion that will follow. And indeed, I think this two or Three minutes is why many times meetings go for an hour or 45 minutes and are not productive because they're not connected at the beginning.

Oh, my God, Joe, that is perfectly stated. And I can't tell you how many times I have done this badly before. I understood this method of focusing the conversation. And my meeting could have been. And this particular meeting would probably only last 17, 16 minutes in total. As long as I start off in a way that truly clarifies the intention and close the loop to make sure that each person understands there is an expectation for action. And I want to make sure you understand what this new program is, this new eligibility requirement is so that your parents and kids really will be able to use it moving forward. So the actual CPO and me closing the loop, that took a few minutes. We are debriefing what occurred so that you can add it to your next meeting. And I'm going to ask you guys to think about a meeting you had recently where you could just do that. So more and more, Nicole, what are you thinking and learning?

I'm thinking about that idea that comes back to that intentionality. And what Joe said really resonated with. We introduce these ideas or concepts to leaders and it can feel like a lot. It can feel like, oh, now I have this other thing I have to do, or I'm already having to lead all of these meetings and now I have to add this to it. And I think what we're trying to say is, is this isn't something additional that you do. It's a new way of doing what you do that gives you the opportunity to be more effective in the way that you lead your meetings. So I think distinguishing that it's not extra. This is something. It's a new way of doing what you do in a better way.

Almost getting up and going to work in the morning, there's not necessarily. It's kind of automatic. Just do it. How do we build that capability to recognize in a meeting? I will state the intention. I'm going to make sure we all have a common understanding about that intention. Julie did that beautifully. This is the meaning I took from it. So I had an intended meeting. I said words to create that intended meeting. She interpreted that. So did all three of you. And the two or three minutes that it took for me to close the loop really holds us together. My non example of this was a gentleman I met at a Navy installation, and he said, I really love this stuff and it's not going to help me, though. I got a meeting in 30 minutes. I said, okay, how many agenda Items? He goes, 15. How long's the meeting? 25 minutes. I said, I think we're in trouble, my friends. So let's talk about what your priority ones are so that you make sure they get done really, really well. That piece of building, that's the intentionality of this. How do you have a great conversation with somebody to make sure the intention is always clear? Julie, where are you on this?

Yeah, I think at least my experience with the Navy and talking about this recently in a lot of coaching conversations and a lot of training, that closing of the loop is the thing that they're missing with a lot of leaders both in the beginning of the day and at the end of the day. So, sure, they may have their huddles in the morning and they say, these are the patients and this is our goals and everybody's on board. And yes, yes, yes, yes, this is what we need to do today. Go. But then they don't have that at the end of the day huddle or before the, you know, the shifts change to say, okay, how did this day go? Did we accomplish everything that we needed to? What's the priority for tomorrow? Are there things that we need to change? And I think, yes, we might actually, there might be some people who are really, really good at creating that intention. But how are you on the follow up to see if what you intended actually occurred?

Sure. So that, so you know, we're not going to play that whole meeting piece out. But to your point, when that, at the end of that 15 minutes or so and I begin to close that meeting with those coaches and those teachers, I would say, okay, tell me when and where you're going to communicate this information to the kids and to the parents and right away. Well, the football coach, he has all the parents there all the time anyway. They will hang out in the stands so he can pull them in for mini short meetings and they'll say that. And if I don't do that, if I don't write down, this is when and where I'm going to have this conversation and I get a chance to then follow up the day or two after that, it's almost like it wasn't important, wasn't important enough for me to hold up that mirror and say, tell me how that went. Tell me where it went, when it went and how it went. So that constant holding up the mirror to see whether or not somebody actually completed the process is problematic. Really good, really good final thoughts before I push you in another place.

I'D just like to say that I think this is also a tactic. Well, I think many people listening to this will have the apprehension that, okay, this is a tactic. And again, I think our discussion's been good, but they will feel that this is a tactic that essentially makes the meeting longer. And part of that, I think, is because of their unfamiliarity or the strangeness of some of the topics that we are touching on.

Excellent. Excellent.

And I have actually gone in the other direction. I have actually used this as a tool to say, okay, we're going to practice these tools, but our meetings are no longer going to be an hour long. They're going to be 30 minutes. And here's how this is going to work. So I give them a template for the meeting. The first 10 minutes is going to be me checking you in, giving you the larger context and purpose and kind of connecting the dots and doing a setup. Then I'm going to routinely call and I will set this up before the meeting, but I will ask two of you to talk about your current efforts and provide your best lessons learned, the things you would want to communicate to others. You will have exactly seven minutes to do this. And then we'll end the meeting then by having 5 minutes for closeout and 1 minute for review of action items and checkout.

That's beautiful.

So, again, so it sets up the user that, okay, we're going to use these tools, but we're going to get proficient at using them quickly to step through the essential things and get what you need. And it's not going to be longer. It's actually going to be shorter. But don't come to the meeting and expect you're going to sign correspondence during my meeting. Don't come to the meeting. You're going to be working your crossword puzzle. You're going to have to be engaged and you're going to have to pay attention.

So what you've done there. And I'll let the ladies play into this, too. One of the things we teach at JLC is the discipline of creative tension. So it's not going to be an hour long. It's going to be 30 minutes long. Oh, what? So every time people lean in, like, what do you mean, 30 minutes? How can we do this in 30 minutes? And then Joe says, here's how we can do it in 30 minutes. And all of a sudden, people are. Our current reality is we kind of wander around for an hour, not now. We're actually going to be very, very focused and very intentional for 30 minutes. So you get more time back in your day to do the things that matter to you. And that feeling of creative tension, incredible. That's where aspiration comes from. That's where personal mastery comes from. That's why I get better at being a participant in the meeting, because my leader is coaching me to do that. That was just excellent, Joe. Julie, what are you thinking?

Yeah, I really like this idea of becoming proficient and thinking about what is happening in our meetings that we just assume and are not really intentional with.

Yeah. And we kind of make those quick assumptions that everybody's on board. Like at the end of a meeting when somebody says, are there any questions? That makes me anxious. You know, I'm like, really? The more introverted people in the room that don't like to speak, they probably won't say anything. And I've watched all of you do this. Turn to the person next to you. You have 60 seconds. Generate one comment or question that you have to close out this part of this agenda item or this part of the meeting. Stunning. When that happens, all of a sudden everybody is fully engaged again in what the intention of that particular piece of the meeting was. That's really excellent, Jules. Thank you. Nicole, how about you?

I'm thinking about how much differently you show up to a meeting when you use these practices and protocols. If I know that at any point, Ray, you're going to ask me what I'm thinking, feeling, or learning, I'm probably going to be listening a little bit differently. I'm not trying to multitask. I'm not working my email while we're having our conversation. I'm not distracting myself with other things or things I need to get done. I'm listening to what Julie is saying because I know at any point I might need to talk about what she just shared or what she said, and that just shifts and changes the dialogue and the conversation to a different place. I show up differently, and I think when you have people showing up differently, you can accomplish so much more.

Well, even here, you guys will struggle to leave me. And I recognize we're on zoom and we're doing a recording. So there's some other. There's some other creative tension in the room. The truth is, it's difficult to drift away. And all of you have done this. I've watched you do it, and I've done it myself. To keep a group of 20 or 30 people with you in a meeting, it is very doable. And as Joe has said many, many times to his coaching people, and I know Julie, I'VE heard you say this, that just do one thing different. And Nicole, we were chatting about this with State Farm. Just change one person, practice, and other things will. Will unfold. I remember Joe working with a leader in Navy medicine, and she was so taken by his coaching, where he said, after you have a little chat with somebody out on the deck plate, as you guys say in the Navy or out in the office, right? To simply say, so what did you hear me saying? What are you thinking? What did that mean to you? All of a sudden, that entire interaction shifts. It's not like, how you doing good? We pass each other and run. No, how you doing Good. Well, tell me more about being good. What's going on with you right now? How's the job going? All of a sudden, the entire feel for that interaction has changed. Intentional conversation produces an affect that is very positive and very purposeful. So if we are purposeful in our interactions, things change dramatically. That's what this is all about. Intentionality in conversation. And a simple way to engage people in the practices. Last piece is for each of us to kind of think about when's the last time you heard somebody set up an intention for a meeting where they connected it to the larger purpose? So I'll do one more model, and then you can do another one. I helped a. A woman have a very difficult conversation with someone in a schoolhouse that was regularly sending students down to be disciplined. The beginning of the meeting was the reason why I'm talking with you is a preponderance of referrals to the dean's office. I'd like to develop a common understanding with you about what the potential unintended consequences of those referrals are. Where kids start to feel uncomfortable with you in the classroom, because if they do and they don't feel safe with you in the classroom, they will not be transparent. They will not tell you what they're thinking or what they're learning. At the end of this, I hope that each of us can figure out steps to take to not just reduce the number of referrals, but to reduce the distractions and the unintended consequences of that referral process. Now, somebody does something really egregious, I expect to see them in the office. So it's not that. And of course, then I would shift to what did you hear me say? So how about an example of a meeting you saw or one you held even where you said, here's the purpose, and connect it to the larger intention of the house or the ship or the command?

Yeah. I'll go. So when we talk about CPOs, a lot of times we think about sentences and words. And one of a lot of times, the most impactful has been when people have just put up a picture. There is a picture I can think of of a little boy and there's this hand around the boy's throat, but the hand is made with all of these words and it says the words you use matter or something like that, you know, and the boys crying and, you know, it really put home the larger impact of our words that we use can have a long lasting effect on the children that we work with, whether as a parent, whether as a teacher. You know, even in the grocery store, if you yell at a student, oftentimes we don't think about how that can impact them in the future. So pictures or videos or songs, those can all be wonderful ways to set up the intention of a meeting and connect it to the larger purpose.

Yeah, it's incredible. When I was a new teacher at a Catholic high school in New York City, one of the nuns who was the assistant principal showed a picture of a kid just shriveling down. And in front of the kid were a list of all the rules for that classroom. There were like 15 or 17 rules. And could just see the eyes big and just. This could be a dangerous place for me. It was so impactful. I still have it all these years later remembering what that did to that kid. You got one, Nicole?

Yeah, Ray. I'm thinking about the learning series that you and I did together with our friends, our corporate clients, and the way in which the leaders set up and delivered the cpo. In every one of those sessions, we had a continuous series of sessions for, I think about nine months with the same group of leaders. And the way that their senior leaders set up those conversations every time was a demonstration of their own vulnerability. So what I loved about the way that they set it up was not about, here's what you're here to learn and what you'll be doing today and what you need to do differently and understand. It was every time about a way that we can enhance ourselves and we are here to learn with you. And I think that that can be an opportunity for leaders to not seem like I'm outside of this process. I am here to learn with you. And I think that was such a powerful way to set up that learning environment for people to come into a meeting space together.

There's that connectivity again. See, I feel connected to the larger space. When curiosity, vulnerability, intimacy unfolds in Our conversations. That's magnificent. Thank you. Joe, how about you?

So kind of following what Nicole said. And again, I always kind of searching for simplicity and compactness in these tools and how they work. Sometimes for a check in question in my groups, I would try to bring in other facets here. So I would, I would use for check in a question like, what's the biggest thing that has you worried right now?

Love it.

That you have done nothing about.

Okay.

Or what's. What's our biggest training challenge right now? Or what's our biggest morale challenge? And so I'll stop with those three and you can think of many more questions. But again, in a way it demonstrates vulnerability because again, you're not going to attack anybody. Because they say, well, I'm really worried about this big inspection that's happening in two weeks. Nothing about it, but they may blurt out something close to that which says we really just have not had time to prepare because we're so focused on current sales or current activity or whatever. And it really provides an opportunity for people to open up and talk about things in a more open way that can be of significance while at the same time getting them all on board for the other conversation that's to come as the purpose of the meeting.

Yeah, see, I really love everything you guys are giving the audience. It provides people an opportunity to establish intention and connectivity. Like morale matters. People matter. I asked that question all of a sudden, well, that's a connection to the larger part of the mission, which is help the team win. Making sure everybody feels like they're part of this thing. Everybody's in that game together. We're all trying to help each other be successful. Mutual investment in one another's success is a key to this work. And it takes away anxiety and stress. Not completely, but at least temporarily. And when I'm able to actually give you a voice to how you doing, how you feeling about things, what's overwhelming you right now or overburdening you right now, which I'd like better than overwhelming. So there's so much opportunity here for us to help people in a very simple but disciplined way, create incredible intentional conversations. Nicely done, everybody. Today, let's do a checkout. What surprised you in this conversation today and why?

The thing that surprised me was how role playing made me engage in the content much different, differently, and I loved it. And I definitely want to do that more with my clients is to take. Have them take on roles because it does really change the way you hear and speak.

And I'm out Oh, that's beautiful. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I don't know if it's a surprise, but maybe I'm surprised. There's. There's connections throughout all of our work and what we do. And Julie and I just had the privilege of hosting a webinar. And one of the comments that we received in our chat bar is really kind of standing out to me as we're having this conversation. And it was about. Our webinar was about coaching, but the comment was, you know, our senior leaders say they want us to be this kind of leader. They want us to coach. And they have a lot of, you know, rhetoric, fluffy rhetoric around the environment we want to create. And all they really care about is the bottom line results. And so as we're creating these environments as leaders, it's making me think about, like, okay, if you want to connect back to your greater purpose, your intent is to create these inclusive, engaged working environments for your people. But you show up and all you're asking them is, is it red or is it green and what are you going to do to shift these results? Then there's a massive disconnect between what you're saying and what you're doing. And I think that's what's really standing out for me is how important it is when we have these everyday conversations, these everyday meetings, and we're saying that this is what matters to us, this greater connection to this greater purpose that we have. If we're not reflecting that in our conversations, it's going to be lost.

That's beautiful. Yeah. There's a whole piece of work on espouse theories and theories in practice. I espouse this. Is that really what we're practicing? Beautiful. Thank you, Joe.

Yeah, I think again, I'll fall in on kind of what Nicole said. I think it also begs the fundamental question again about who are you? Because if the good you are seeking in your employment is our social goods, improvement of society, you know, but you're in a. In a business that is clearly striving for profits. You probably have chosen poorly because the. And so I think it's, you know, I think our conversations are intended. Our tactics and techniques are designed to help people in whatever field center themselves and their actions and their conversations in a way to get more effective action. So if it is to get. Produce more social good or better social contracts with the public, yes, terrific. If it is to improve profits, then yes, these are things that will help you improve profits. But if your goal is social good and you're trying to do that. As a Wall street broker, you're probably in the wrong tree.

Something feels off right about that. So what I love about these conversations that we have is the curiosity that you all employ and the vulnerability that you present. This work is truly, for me has been for a long time important. And it's important because one of the things Joe brought up is like, who controls my purpose? Who controls my feelings? Who control? I do. I do. No one else. Now I can be put in a position where somebody for a little while can do that. And to Joe's point, I may have chosen poorly, so I may have to find another niche to go play in moving forward. Thank you all so much. It is a privilege and honor to work with you. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for spending time with us today. I hope you enjoyed this. I did. And what I think I loved about this whole conversation was the reminder that I can be intentional and caring simultaneously, and I can make sure that intention moves the interaction forward in an extremely useful way. Ladies and gentlemen, if you want to hear more from us, you can get us at www.gojlc.com, look for us on your podcast channels and look for us on the JLC YouTube channel. We'll see you again real soon. Thank you for your time. Sincerest thanks for listening to this episode.

Of the Everyday Leadership Conversations podcast. The Jorgensen Learning center offers a variety of programs for individuals and organizations to enhance their communication and leadership skills. To find out more about programs and upcoming webinars, check out our events page@gojlc.com.