Networks, Relationships, and Resiliency

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us at jlc. This is everyday Leadership Conversations, and thank you for being part of us. I think you'll enjoy this particular one today, especially since all of us can relate to setbacks, things that happen to us from time to time. And the opportunity to really reflect upon what enabled us to get through the setbacks is really what this is all about. So we're going to start today by checking in around the following question. Think of a time as recently as you can where you faced a setback. If you can tell us a little bit about the setback and how that setback occurred to you or landed on you. Colleen, would you like to start?

Sure, sure. And I think perhaps we've all experienced this one. I would say the recent setback that, that, that I feel like happened recently was with my son. His name's Connor. He's a freshman at Montana State University. And you know, when you, you do everything as a parent to prepare, prepare, prepare, pack them up and you send them on their way. You know, got in good grades, great student. And with COVID things have kind of been a little bit sideways. Right. So there's no in person classes. Well, the information he shared to me was that he was not doing well in school. He's got scholarship, he needs to keep his grades up to keep his scholarship. And literally called crying. And not just once, multiple times, saying, I don't want to go to school anymore. I'm sick of school, I hate school, I'm not going to go to school anymore. And so I think it punched me a couple different ways, hurt my heart deeply. Just because of him being in such a negative space, so far away from home. It's not like I could run down there and kind of help sort it out. And the other piece, I just kept thinking, you know, please don't, don't do something that's going to impact your future. So I was really thinking about it from a scholastic, you know, academic perspective as well as just my heart was breaking for this kid. So I would say that, that and him being so far away really kind of broke my heart.

I would say, Colleen, that although it's a little bit murky for me, exactly the same experience with my sons when they went off to college and I had twins. So the twins went together to two different colleges and certainly had those phone calls. And the younger of the three, very similar. Interesting how that ability to get the kid ready to go to the best that we know how to do, right, sometimes comes back to haunt us. That's really good. Thank you so much. Vince.

You got one?

Yeah.

I'll share a similar kid story. So my youngest has always endured some academic challenges, and she's on the individual education plan in the system. I'm in a pretty good system and I'm happy with it. But of course, with COVID and everything going virtual, a lot of the support that she typically receives is coming more directly from the parent inside the house than the school itself. And so I'm going through a transition year. This kid is going from eighth grade to high school, and we're really struggling right now just to kind of get our arms around where is she actually today and how do we support her moving forward. But sometimes I feel helpless because I'm a part of this greater system that I can't manage, that I can't influence. And I'm really, really afraid. There's a lot of concern in my household about, you know, missing the right levers and keeping this kid moving forward. And so we are. We are struggling and looking for solutions with the schools and within our household as to how to effectively make this transition. We don't have the answer yet, but it's something I'm struggling with at this very moment.

Thank you for that and thank you for sharing, both of you, very personal stories about setbacks, things that have happened to you or are happening at the moment.

And it probably won't surprise you that there'll be something in this podcast, something in this conversation that may be of use to you moving forward personally and also with your youngsters. So with your young adults. I have one guy chastised me yesterday for calling high school kids kids. He said, they're young adults.

I said, okay, I don't know about that.

It is truly an endearing term when I say the kids. But he was unhappy with that phrase. I thought that was interesting. That requires a deeper, different conversation. Julie, what do you got for us?

I have something that is not as extreme, but for me it is. So it's a series of things that happened last week. We discovered that my 15 year old daughter needs a new passport. And so we went to the post office and to get her the new passport. I had the old passport. I had the form. My husband was there because you needed all this stuff, right. In order to get the new passport. And she started out with, do you have an appointment? Well, before COVID you didn't need an appointment. You could just walk in. Which is why I liked it. Well, now they need an appointment. And so she was sort of kind and she was like, well, let me see how much I can get done before the next person comes in. And she asked for the birth certificate, which I didn't have. So we had to reschedule for Saturday. Okay, so this was Monday. We're going to reschedule it for Saturday. No biggies. And. But yet that still sort of frustrated me because I'm somebody who had it all prepared. You know, everything's in its place, and we're going to go. We're going to. Once and done. Right. I'm not a keep trying to do, do it type of person. And so I came home and I went right to where my passport or where all the passports are, where all the birth certificates are. All of it not there. I spent the entire week looking in every draw. I've cleaned my entire house. Now, those of you who know me already know that I clean when I'm stressed. So my house is very organized already. And that's part of my identity, that everything has its place and I always know where everything is. Except now I can't find the birth certificate. So now. So I had to cancel the appointment on Saturday, and instead I had to go to a notary to order a new birth certificate, which will take four to six weeks. And on top of that, now I've lost my sunglasses. So I'm driving in the bright snowy. Can't see. And I just feel like my world is falling apart. Like all of a sudden, one thing after another after another. After I can't find stuff, nothing's in its place. Everything's taken a zillion hours. It should just take a second. So I'm just. I'm beside myself. I am sideways, as Colleen would say. I am completely sideways.

So, Ray, can I suggest Julie come on out to my house for a little bit? We need to get that stress worked out.

Yes.

I got a house project for you right here.

Let's do it. That would make me feel. I feel better already with that invitation. I appreciate it.

I need her to come into this cubbyhole called my office. It is as though somebody took paper and blew it up. Right? So it is truly a mess. So very good. So all of you that are listening and those of you that are watching, I invite you to think about a time when you were stuck. It was a setback. It kind of got you. And here's the next reaction I'd like you guys to play through. And, Colleen, I think I'm going to use your story. When you felt this incredible set of feelings that cascaded over you. Right. Who did you have to talk with? Did you have someone? And maybe not just Robby, maybe somebody else. Was there someone in your life that you could talk to about those feelings and about the fact that I feel like I can't move forward yet. There's something here stopping me? Who did you have in your life at that time?

I feel like I'm very fortunate. Not only do I have my husband, I have the people on the screen right here, my JLC family. And I know a lot of times I do I talk with you, Ray. And I know I've mentioned several things to Julie and Vince as well. Second, kind of outside my inner circle, so to speak, is I walk a lot with my neighbor, and I feel very, very fortunate to have her as sounding board. And finally, like, yesterday, I went skiing with my sister in a big group of friends. And she also has a son, one year older than my son at the same school. So it's almost like her son went through the same similar type of experience, you know? So it's pretty cool that she kind of gave me some ideas as well. So I feel like that, you know, I always do my best to reach out to multiple different people to get their perspective, think about it, and then kind of put together my response that I believe would be appropriate for my son.

Julie, why don't you respond to Colleen about what you heard and what you're thinking right now?

So what I heard is the instance she notices that she's stuck there. She knows that she's not alone, and she can reach out to multiple people and not only just to talk about it, but also to get their perspective and their feedback as to different things that she could possibly do or think that she didn't think of already.

Yeah, that's beautiful.

Fly out and beat them to death. I mean, okay, your job is school.

Yeah. They have unintended consequences, though, Colleen.

Yeah, but I have to calm myself. So I think that was the biggest thing, is that I recognize that if he's in the moment reaching out to me because he's so sad and he's afraid, my response and how I choose to respond is huge. So we did a whole bunch on react, right. The difference between react and respond. So I would say that one of the things that I absolutely focused on in these conversations is how am I showing up? Am I showing up in a space of empathy, or am I just going, seriously, dude? I mean, that's going on mine. But I'm not saying it. I'm giving my very best to Absolutely. Have that self awareness to just pause and breathe.

Good.

Vince, what about you? How did you hear her story?

Yeah, so I had an old boss, the boss of my boss, who used to say, no one cares how much you know until they know how much you care. And that's something that she was listening, telling that story. I was thinking about that phrase. It's something that I carry with me. And the second thing that really resonated with me was as leaders and as people, no one person thinks alike. Even the four of us on this phone call, we have four distinctly different personalities, but we all find complementary elements. And so you need different things from different people at different times. And having a multitude of people to reach out to, to give you different things that you need, depending on where you are on the journey and on the scope is very important. So I heard Colleen talk about the different types of people that she could reach out to when she's kind of going through these changes. And again, the empathy that Julie mentioned, that's the way that I frame those two issues. That's what stood out to me.

That's really good.

Colleen, how are you hearing your friends?

Yeah, I was just really thinking about what Vince said, you know, that whole sense of ensuring people know you care. And I think especially those people closest to you, because, you know, even, you know, with everyone with the team, I don't want to let anyone down. You know, I do. And I know that with each consult, with each client, I want to give 150% and ensure that I am providing the absolute best possible, possible support I can. And I know that, you know, I think that my son has seen that and he feels the same way. Right? So I think, how can we not jump and react to, okay, you know, you shit the bed and you're going to need to drop a class and just go over the top versus, okay, what does he really need right now? And especially with these times where the level of stress and anxiety in being away from school and not knowing where to go and maybe not having the capabilities that I did and reaching out to a whole bunch of different people to get support. So how can I support him in understanding he's not on an island and there are resources available to him as well to support him. And so I think it goes back to that Care and empathy is absolutely critical, especially when somebody's in a space of fear.

Something here that is resonating for me from all three of you is that each of you has alluded to how good it was that Colleen had someone to talk to and talk with. And in listening to Colleen's words, I would love you to notice the distinction between commiserating with Colleen. Oh, yeah, I agree. Let's go have a beer and we can talk about what idiots our sons are versus are there some things you would recommend that I could do differently or more or better to help him through this? Even noticing that you're not alone and what we've learned in the literature. And I pulled this right from an HBR piece written by Cross, Dylan and Greensburg. The most successful leaders are the ones that can deal with setbacks and are resilient. Figure out how to do it. And the way they do it that's most impactful is they have someone or someones that they can turn and talk with to say, let me let you know what's going on. And I would say that for each of you at different times have chatted with me about work. You're doing things, you're thinking about stuff that's happening. That's because of the relationship that we have. So this is a network, but there's also a one on one network that lives for each of you going forward. And for me, like, if I get in trouble with something or I'm not thinking something through, I'll call Vince. Vince, I'm wondering about this. I'm going to go, Julie, I'll call Julie. Julie, what do you think? And even when she doesn't call me back. So this ability, I think, for us to recognize that resiliency has as its topsoil, and I like to think about this as topsoil on a farm, which is what makes everything grow. What makes everything grow are the quality of the relationships that I have with different people. Otherwise I end up losing my ability to respond. So a picture of Ray when he's young man, late 20s, traveling on a train because I was working four or five different jobs to keep the family afloat. And I'm by myself on the train, tired, with my head in my hands, on the verge of bawling in front of all these people would probably just make fun of me. And I didn't realize how alone I was at that time. And when I don't have that other person to talk with and hopefully not provide sympathy, but empathy, I get stuck. What are you guys thinking, learning and feeling right this second? Julie, why don't you kick in?

The thing that made me instantly was I was thinking about therapists and coaches because my parents would love to know what's going on. But if I would Tell them what's going on, then they want to fix it. And I don't want to be fixed, and I don't need to be fixed. I just need a space to not have an opinion. And so even though I did have a lot of family and friends who cared for me, I chose to actually go outside of that and pay for a coach and a therapist. I have both so that I don't have to figure it out all by myself.

There's something in you, obviously, that told you I would like to have a way to bounce my thinking off of someone else. It's almost like holding up the mirror again and letting somebody reflect back to me what they were hearing you say, like I just did, and keep that ability for us as coaches and people leading leaders, enabling them to have a mirror, something they can look into and say, oh, I didn't even realize I was doing that, because otherwise they lose their awareness. So the literature from Harvard is powerful, and at the same time, it keeps reverting back to what is the quality of the relationship I have with individuals and people in my network. Julie, that was magnificent. Vince, what are you thinking?

Yeah, so I guess I don't have. I never really thought about the resources of going out and getting some of those things because of the way I grew up. But I believe it's important to have it. And I guess I just always termed it very differently, my inner circle. The people that you trust, the people who are inside the circle of trust, the people I grew up with, my family, you know, my really close family members. And I've always had that network around and had trusted advisors and trusted counsel, people that you can talk to. So the element is important. I guess what I was hearing was it really doesn't matter how you get it, as long as you recognize that you need it and that it's accessible to you. You go and get the resource you need from wherever venue you have available to you. There's more than one way to skin that cat. As long as you know, I need this, I can go get that. That's how I was thinking about it. Yeah.

There's something about having a best friend, but having best friends is better. Do I have people I can turn to? You know, I worked in inner city, New York city, and we were working with gangs and people that don't understand the street, don't understand that the gang is actually a network of friends that care about you and want you to be successful. Maybe not in the ways we would hope they would be successful, but they wanted you to be successful anyway. So this ability to recognize we have been doing this our whole lives. This is an opportunity to be very disciplined and intentional about the networks I currently have and the relationships I currently have so I can expand on their quality. That was really good. Vince and Julie. Colleen, what are you thinking and learning?

I think I'm going back to your story actually, Ray, and just that sense of sometimes you can tell when somebody needs some assistance. Right. You had your face, you know, your head down in your hands. And I think sometimes people don't necessarily present as if they need help. Right. Because they're maybe in reacting mode, they feel like they're floundering and maybe they present where it's anger or it's fear or so they're not reaching out. And it just made me think about this. How can we show that empathy and really reach out and care to those in our network when we're recognizing. Hey, I haven't heard from Julie in a while. Hey, I haven't checked in with her. I wonder how she's doing and how she's feeling. And just taking a moment to recognize that some people, they need that help because they're not quite sure. They're so focused on this day to day issue or there's sense of this fearfulness or how can we help them recognize they're not in it alone.

And the narrative we begin to tell ourselves is that we are alone.

Exactly.

Oh my God. Oh, look at this. Why is this happening to me? And we're good at this because we grow up in a space where hearing stories about people being victims, it's part of our development. Right. We hear all these stories when we're very little and they keep unfolding and then we end up playing a scripted role rather than just be authentic self. This was really just perfect. So here is kind of the, the concluding piece to this that I think you probably will, will, will enjoy. And those of you that are listening or watching, I want you to answer the question first. And I'm going to ask each of them to, to answer the question. And there's no right or wrong answer. It's just the one that satisfies you the most. When things feel muddy or you feel overwhelmed or overburdened, is there a place that you go or a thing that you do that helps you? Colleen, you start this one.

Yeah, I would say consistently for me it's been exercise. So for me, whether it's can I get out on the mountain and ski or can I just walk out my front door and take a walk by the river. Gives me that sense of peace. I can just not connect to anything. No electronics. Just get out in a space of quiet and solitude.

Wonderful, Jules.

I take a nap. I need to turn my brain off and my body's going. And if I don't take that time to just, like I say, I sort of meditate. Right. And I pray as well. I just need to shut out the world and just ground myself and do some deep breathing and get away for a little bit. Reset.

Perfect.

It's refuge, is it not? And prayer is actually an interaction. That's the interesting part. In my own theological studies, prayer is an interaction. It's not just you by yourself. You're actually in conversation with an entity. It's magnificent. Vince, what's your place of refuge?

So I have two things in general. I like being alone. I like people. So I like that stimulation. But there are times when I just want to shut everybody out and just be by myself. I can get out of my motorcycle and just be gone for hours. Just on the road, just me and my only other go to. You know what it is, Ray? I go to the cigar lounge where, you know, there are no expectations. I can just have a nice stogie and a nice little glass of scotch and talk and converse with other people of like minded aficionado status. And it just kind of relaxes me because there are no commitments and no expectations. And so those are two things I find very therapeutic.

Okay, I love that.

So there's, there's something in that ability to be. There's no expectation for you in that cigar lounge. You're just sitting there, you might be visiting with somebody, but there's no expectation. So it's a place of refuge.

Last piece, if you had your way, how would you expand your network? If you had your way? And we recognize networks matter, relationships matter. That's where you can speak to people in a very authentic way and they could be empathetic back. How could you. Would you expand your network? If you had your way? How would you expand your network? Then you start.

So I'm in the process of doing that now. You know, my life today is very different than it was, you know, a couple years ago. And so it's requiring new interactions. Right? And so I try to find people who like the things that are familiar to me that feel comfortable. And then I try to socially interact with them and get to know them and the people that they interact with. And so over a period of time, I am beginning to broaden and widen the aperture, if you will, of my network. And it's working for me. It seems to be working for me.

That is beautiful. The reason I stopped here was to get us all to think and those of you listening and watching to think about how can I expand my network? If it is true that networks help us with resiliency, networks help us relationships help us with resiliency, how do I expand my network? And this is probably something for me that I wish I understood as a leader because I very much kept to myself or one or two people that I felt I could trust. Because if I said the wrong thing somewhere, my picture and my words would be in the newspaper. Not exactly what I said, but close enough to make somebody get an editorial comment. So how to build a network where people are in a trusting environment, where I know this is a safe space, a safely dangerous space for me to talk about whatever's on my mind. It's beautiful. Thank you, Vince. Jules, how about you? Networks?

I am a huge fan of joining organizations that you're passionate about. Nowadays you don't even have to join a professional organization. There are meetup groups that you can join and you can look up things that you love to do, but that's. I join those. You get around other people that are like minded. There's usually something to learn from each other and you have conferences to go to and before you know it, you have a whole new set of family that you can reach out to and talk together.

This ability to really have people to chat with is an enabler to the muscle called resiliency. And look how my colleagues are unfolding their stories about how they're building their networks. Colleen, how are you building your network?

Yeah, well, I really like what Julie said. You know, to me it's about being intentional about what kind of what's the purpose that I'm trying to achieve, what's one of my goals. And if it's around business, then I might be developing my network in LinkedIn. If it's around, you know, getting more support around having teenage kids and, you know, in school and in college, then I might go about that a little bit differently. I would say right now where I would like to intentionally develop my network is back here where I live in Sacramento. And it's maybe going back to some of those groups that I was physically attending before COVID and trying to rekindle some of those conversations. I was part of the Chamber. I also would attend. They had joint events with the Hispanic Chamber and the Black Chamber. And I found that those Kind of events where they pulled lots of different, diverse perspectives together were the most fun for me. The people that I met were just incredible. So I think for me specifically, I'm going to be looking for ways to get back into those groups virtually, if need be now, and then hopefully physically in the next several months.

This thought about getting back to some things that I used to do, and I did do some things like that. I did have a couple of safe spaces to go to. And they're gone. They're gone for a lot of reasons, but they're definitely gone because of COVID But they were also gone because I spent my whole life on the road. So for the last 20 something years, I have been on the road too many weeks a year. So here I am, thinking, as you guys are, speaking about the networks that I currently have and how to consider a way to expand and deepen my relationships in those networks. Ladies and gentlemen, this has been a wonderful experience talking with Vince and Julie and Colleen. For me, they remind me about the depth of their own thinking about how to help people and help themselves lead more effectively. As far as the kids are concerned. Helping kids find their own networks, sometimes it's actually a letting go and it feels kind of odd, but helping kids find networks to support them when they take their next step, their next challenge. So we're so grateful you took some time to be with us today. We know what an asset that is, and we at JLC are grateful to this opportunity. We hope you enjoyed it. Please let us know if you did. If you didn't like it, write your congressman. But if you like it, please let us know that you liked it. And we will continue to practice as best we can. Last thought for the day, Julie. Last thought.

Just because you're smart and just because you're hardworking doesn't mean that you need to shoulder all of the responsibility. So make sure you share it with others.

It's beautiful. Vince.

Yeah. In a position of leadership, man, you're human and you're not infallible. And so you have to remind yourself to give yourself time to reflect and to give yourself time to take care of you. That helps you be resilient, and I'll help you make your organization or your team more effective.

Thank you. Thank you, Colleen.

I think sometimes an answer or a solution is so clear to us, but not necessarily the person who's experiencing that situation. So how can we really demonstrate some empathy and help them learn to kind of pause, reflect, and see it a little bit differently so they can learn to move through it and beyond and I'm out.

Oh I love it.

And the last comment is the literature says the leaders who can handle negative events or adversity the best are the ones that move up in the system and are the ones that achieve all those higher levels and have great success.

I bet everybody on this call and those of you that are listening and watching are thinking about how do I become even more resilient. And we would all say today develop high quality relationships with people. Expand your networks. Resiliency will come. Thank you for being with us. Remember you can find us on gojlc.com Hope you had a great time today and we wish you well. Thank you.

Sincerest thanks for listening to this episode of the Everyday Leadership Conversations podcast. The Jorgensen Learning center offers a variety of programs for individuals and organizations to enhance their communication and leadership skills. To find out more about programs and upcoming webinars, check out our events page@gojlc.com.