Resiliency’s Impact on Your Leadership Presence

Foreign. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for joining us here at JLC Media today. I have my good friends with me that have been working on the ideas around resilience and leadership. And today we're going to take what I think you will enjoy, kind of a leap into what's it really look like. What does resilience really look like in a leader? This is an area that personally I have struggled with my whole career, thinking about how people sometimes are more interested in tripping me up and making me look bad. My mental model rather than the actuality somebody really wants an answer to a question. So I think you're going to enjoy this one. As promised, we will all behave, hopefully very present and very vulnerable with you, and we'll see how that unfolds going forward. So I'm going to introduce my partners because you already know who they are. And I'll start with Vince. And Vince, you can add anything you like. So Vince is a retired naval officer and a leader, Multiple postings as a leader, and he brings to us a rich experience from helping an entity, a command, any part of the organization to achieve desired results. Julie steps into the world with us as just a fantastic executive coach right now that's also building programs for teams to develop their capabilities moving forward. Vince is working with groups overseas in the United States, and he's also executively coaching people. Colleen is an executive coach, and she brings forward not just the ability to coach effectively, but to build the necessary systems dynamics needed for people to be successful in their endeavors. An overarching theme in our work is to think about what it takes for the team to win. That will be part of what we're going to talk about today. These are my three treasured colleagues. I know you're going to really love listening to their stories as we go forward. Why are we talking about this? COVID 19, has presented tremendous challenges. The literature I'm reading says that something like 90 something percent of every organization is. Is going through some kind of transformation. I think Covid just added to that. And when executive leaders were interviewed, they said one of the biggest problems is we don't think the people in our care know how to help others deal with all these challenges and help themselves. So we'd like to develop a common understanding with you guys today about what is an area that really matters, really matters to enable an organization to move forward. It's called leadership presence. So that when we're done, each of you can transfer the little bit of learning, which, by the way, I think everybody already has. We're just going to frame it differently. You already have this ability, and each of you will be able to think about the components of leadership presence to move forward. So that's the intention for today. Julie, what did you hear me say we're going to do today?

I heard you say that we are going to be talking about leadership presence and how it enables leaders to not only take care of themselves, but to take care of their teams so that they can continue to move everybody forward despite uncertainty.

Yeah, it's almost like if I don't have the right stance, it's difficult for me to go forward myself. Jon Kabat Zinn, who I really love, University of Massachusetts. He works with people on mindfulness all the time. We'll probably take some detour into how can I be more mindful as a leader, which will influence my presence. So we'll get to that as we continue down our conversation here. So, Benj, what did you hear me say? What resonated with you so far?

Okay, so quite honestly, I was a bit distracted. We were talking and my answering machine went off and I was telling my door to go and answer it. But what I heard you say in your open remarks was that we've been talking about resilience and what makes resilience and what makes the team resilient. So we're going to take some time today to kind of explore that a little deeper from both from my standpoint, an individual perspective as a leader. And then how does it impact the organization and the team? And I'm excited to have some of those discussions with us today.

At some level, I think you said it better than I did because we're always worried about the team. Are we helping the team win? What do we do to help the team win? What do I do to help myself be successful and and present and all the things necessary for me to be most impactful with those in my care. So well said. Thank you so much. Colleen, how about you?

I think what resonated with me just in this brief piece is we always talk about leadership and leading and the first place you lead is self. So what I heard is how are we going to focus on our own personal leadership presence to ensure we have the capabilities to be resilient? And then to Vince's point, how can we then look outbound and support others around us in enhancing their resiliency as well?

Really well said. And I'll restate that literature again because it matches your comment. The people that were surveyed that were in high level executive positions, he Suite or higher, felt that those that they led were unprepared to deal with these incredible, stressful challenges. And they were actually turning to this organization that was helping, which is really what coaching is all about, helping to say, how do we do this better? So I think this little journey today about leadership and leadership presence will probably fit the bill for me, if not for you. So I'm going to get more out of this maybe than anyone else, and I'll probably have more fun because I am always in that space of trying to stay present in the work that I do. So let's begin here. I'd like you each to think about a story, personal story, that happened to you in the last recently, six months, a year. You pick one, and I'd like you to talk a little bit about the impact of what happened and the need for you to become resilient as a result of that story, the impact that came from that story. So that's our deal. And since Vince has been distracted thinking about his story all this time, I'm gonna let him start.

And taking notes.

I know he's still taking notes. So remember, when you take notes, you don't speak from the heart. But anyway, that's a whole nother podcast. So, Vince, what's your story, brother?

Okay, okay, so watch this, watch this. Ray, at the beginning, you told us to no funny business today. And I would just simply say, I promise you nothing. So with that said, I will say that you challenge us to really stay academic and current on readings and activities and things. And so you recently sent a Harvard Business Review on the question, what makes a good leader? And so I was recently reading that article, and because I'm always looking for ways to stimulate, better understand myself and how I can have impact people. And so they talked about these emotional intelligence skills that really break people out, break great leaders out. And the number one item on that list was self awareness. And so my story is about self awareness. I'm a type A personality, and I had begun over the last couple of years volunteering with a parent organization that was really in the business of helping children, particularly minority children in this community, kind of get past the disparity of the academic achievement gap, right? And so I'm working with educators and people in school system and parents in this group, and they're doing good work, but has never been very structured. And I come from an environment where I need structure and discipline and organization. And so the organization man works behind a lot of emotion. And I'm trying to incorporate structure into our in process design. And there's a clash of how we kind of achieve things. And on a couple of occasions, I've been very frustrated and wanted to quit, But I had to become aware, self aware of what I like and balance that with what this group actually needs to achieve its goals. And I've had to make some adjustments and some accommodations to take us where we are to our end objectives. So that's something that I've been personally dealing with. And I've had to reach into my bag of self awareness from my emotional intelligence skill set to help me continue to drive and get better. So that's my story for the group today is something that's recently.

Okay, so I love the story, but notice the amount of reflection that you did. Right. So I'm going to think about this a little bit and see what I can do first. One of my responses could be to run away. There's at least six, right? So one is run away, the other is change everybody else. The third would be, let me work on myself a little bit, see what I need to do differently. And I'll tell you, I'm so old that I got to go to a lot of great talks. And one was by Zig Ziglar, who really trained people in sales behavior everywhere. But one of the sentences he always made was interesting, which I've shared with you guys. Find out what people want, help them get it. Now, I can't do that if I don't have any kind of awareness about what it is they really want. So how I speak to them will not be one of. Well, okay, thanks for telling me what you want, but let me tell you what I think you really need. Boy, does that change the dynamic. And a heartbeat. That's really excellent. Thank you, Vince. Colleen, what about you?

Sure. I think with COVID hitting where we're coming up on the year point, really, of the global pandemic, I would say. A couple months ago, my mom gave me a ring, and she is a recent widow. My father has passed almost two years ago in December. And, you know, she calls me and I'm thinking, all right, well, what does she need? You know, everything's fine. And she's crying. I mean, she's bawling, and she's like, oh, my gosh, this isolation, it has got her in a really, really sad and lonely place. And so she calls me, of course, because she goes, I need more time with you. And she wants me to fix her and to help her and to support her in some way. And I over here Going well, hey, I got my own issues over here, man. You know, I've got my own family, I've got my kids rolling in and out. I got to worry about my husband. And instant in my mind, of course, I started to think about myself and I'm like, gosh, do I have it in me to, you know, handle my family and my children? And now my mom with this need that has surfaced with urgency. With urgency. So it was just kind of a bad spot. I'm like, damn, I wish I wouldn't have picked up that phone call.

Colleen and Vince, this conversation today is about leadership presence. It actually can't function without awareness. So you both have brought forward the fact that because I have personally chosen to build some awareness about what was going on with this group, I was working with what's going on with my mom. Now I have a chance to shift into. Okay, what is my leadership response? As we respond as leaders, we will shift in a few moments to what does leadership presence look like, Especially when I become aware that there's something that ought to happen here. That was great. Thank you both. Julie, you got one?

I do. My mother died of cervical cancer two years ago, and I had been going to therapy to deal with emotions because I do not deal with emotions. Vince, I'm with you. Let's have the structure. Let's get shit done. Let's not talk about feelings or any of that sort of stuff. But it was getting in the way and I just wasn't able to sleep. And so I had to work with someone who was able to help me sort of through this and have fun with it and laugh about it and everything. And so then in March, right as the COVID happened, my sister in law was diagnosed with breast cancer. And I was so upset. I can remember Colleen and our other person, Nicole, that we work with was the first people I had talked to after I found out. And I was crying and I was really feeling the emotions, right? And then a few months later, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. And my therapist gave me permission to not have to do the feelings because now I'm in the fight for my life. And everyone else around me was like, how are you feeling? How are you feeling? And my therapist was like, put it in a box, put those underneath the bed. And after you deal and heal from the cancer, then we can pull it out and we can grieve later. But the grieving right now during the breast cancer is not going to serve you. And I'm so grateful that I had that permission because Everyone around me just was upset and you know, I could have easily gone down that victim mentality and that wouldn't have served me.

Yeah, so you could have been seduced into drama. And I think your therapist told you no reason to jump into that space right now. Let's figure out how to move forward. So I think I'm going to go ahead and if I got all three of your stories. Well, I'm going to stay with you for a moment, Julie, because both Vince and Colleen and me, we all walk down this road with you to some degree, some larger, some smaller, but to some degree. So I'll start with you, Colleen. When we talk about leadership presence, we talk about three aspects of that. What is my focus, what is my stance and what is my talk. And in the work you just read in the HBR article by Dan Goleman, he talks about that all the time. The ability to work on my own personal self mastery. And this self mastery comes from in the work of the learning organization and in the work that we do in conversational leadership, everyday leadership conversations. We talk about this leadership presence from those three way in those three areas, focus, stance and talk. So Colleen, you get us started. Why don't you talk a little bit about what you heard from Julie as she walked down this road because she shifted and changed in those areas as she went. So what can you remember about her focus, her stance and talk? And then Julie gets to go no or yes at the end of this. So. So what did you see happening there, Colleen, from those three arenas?

Sure. Well, I think it sounded like when she first heard the information. Right. Her talk, she chose to use words that were positive. She chose to stay out of a victim stance and she also chose to focus on the recovery piece and the fight, not necessarily the emotions or those types of things. So it sounds like her presence just everything went to focus to the fight of her life and ensuring her talk, focus and stance. So the words she used day in and day out, and I can attest to this, this is true, her focus was absolutely laser on forward, on what are my options, on what can I do, on what is the best thing for me. And her stance continued to be aggressive in the fight for her life and positive.

Yeah, that's something really interesting there. And so let me hold you there audience with us and my team and me. So Julie's focus, stance and talk was about an optimistic and positive future end state. There was no question about that. Let me just hold that. I'm going to go to you now, Vince. What did you notice from Julie?

So it's interesting how we look at the same information, but we interpret it a little differently. When I thought about it as what she said, I thought about her initial focus was how. What her presence was an individual in general, type A personality, non emotional, non committal. But she recognized in order to be more effective that she had to go and make some shifts in that behavior. So she went out self awareness and she went to seek the things that she needed, the tools she needed to kind of open her aperture. And so she did that, and that was great. So that was for that component. But then when she had her own internal personal crisis and as she began to look internally in terms of what she needed, she needed different sets of skills. She didn't need the emotions. And so the ability to recognize and to get the permission to say it's okay not to have those emotions and do those things because I need different in order to meet my objective, which is to get better. And so her ability to. Depending on the situation, to make the adjustments and have the courage to. The courage to make the adjustments to me, is what was resonating. She adapted to the skills that were needed based upon the circumstances she found herself in. That's what I heard.

So, Vince, this is really interesting. Neither you nor Colleen, nor Nicole, and I don't think any of us did this. We didn't project our own fears onto her thinking, if that was me, this is what I would be doing now. I'd jump off the roof, I'd go away for six months. All the possibilities. Right? And we didn't do that. We honored her thinking and where she was. Ladies and gentlemen, listening. This is a dangerous spot for you as leaders because sometimes you start to surmise that's what Vince needs, that's what Julie needs, that's what Colleen needs. And without even asking them, you start giving it to them. Dangerous. Dangerous. It actually, unfortunately, can shift you into a persecutor and make the person even more of a victim. That's brilliant, Julie. How'd they do, recognizing what you were going through?

Yeah, they were pretty spot on. Colleen definitely was there and she would be one. Probably one of the only ones that actually did see when I did have emotion and I knew that I could let those out with her and she would make me laugh, so she wasn't gonna allow me down that path. And Vince, of course, he knows how I adjust to different things. And if he sees me going a little too intense and being a little Martha Stewart, he comes in with his Snoop Dogg and you know, slaps me upside the head and says, okay, you know, wise, what's happening here? So they were right on with my ability to not only self reflect, but adjust and what I needed, whether it was emotions or not.

Yeah, I'd say there's something here deeply in this piece that you just shared with us. We did this in the last part, the last podcast we did. I believe networks and relationships are everything in resilience. If I don't have a network, if I don't have someone I can really talk to, if I don't have any human being that I can connect with, not even if they deeply understand me or not, just someone to talk with, that is one of the conditions for success as a leader that's facing great challenges, feels stress trying to move the teams forward, trying to help the teams win. I need that network. And what's really interesting, Julie, they see you differently, which is how the world is. We don't land on people in the same ways. We don't see people in exactly the same way. This was a truly spectacular example. So let's take the same situation and do a non example. Let's assume and we turn Julie into a victim. What would victim language sound like? So victim presence. What would a victim language sound like when Julie was facing all of that stuff that was cascading over her like a gigantic wave. Julie, you start. What would be.

I can start because I'm surrounded by some people who. And it just drives me nuts and I feel bad that in a way that it drives me nuts, but it is. They're just like, oh my gosh, I'm so anxious. What if my cancer comes back? I'm getting my blood work and I tried to get my brain scanned because I had a headache the other day and I just need to. I can't do anything. I'm exhausted. I have aches all the time. And so I'm just gonna lay here in bed and. Yeah.

And wait for it to happen.

All lay in and wait to die. As to your point, Ray, and wait to die. So all the way in as being your friend in the moment and how a non example of when you reach out in your network. Right. Well, you know Julie, so my girlfriend, she also, her mom got cancer and so there are three special doctors and you need to go to these three at these locations because if you don't, you're not going to get the best advice. So please go and talk to these three people. And then the other thing that you need to do, you need to make sure that you talk to all your friends about it. So everybody, everyone that you know, especially your neighbors, they know what you're going through. So they can take and bring you, like, little gifts and put them on your front porch. So then they just.

Boop.

Keep your spirits high.

Nice. Nice. It feels like. That's perfect, Colleen. It's like, let's do some commiseration and tell you stories about other people and my stories, not your stories, but we're not worried about you any longer. Let me tell you some stories. And then we start telling you what you should do. And you know, we've talked about this in our company all the time. We gotta stop shoulding on people. Cause we're constantly should. You should do this, you should do that. And if there's anything I noticed through those interactions, I didn't see anybody do that to Julie. Vince, what's a victim sound like?

To me, a victim sounds the opposite of what I experienced in. My father died of cancer and my mother had breast cancer. And I can remember days, man, the winter of Chicago. My father would be outside in his cane with his amputated leg, washing his car clean off the snow, because that's what he was going to do. He was not going to be a victim in any way. So I didn't grow up around people who had illnesses, who talked about it every day all the time, and what they needed all the time. And it gets to the point where, if you get to the point where I don't want to call you to check on you, to see how you're doing, because I know nothing to spend the next hour on the phone with you while you tell me every single little ass, every test you had, everything, every word. So it's. People call you because they care and they know what's going on. But, man, you can overdo it and push people off the cliff. And I've heard people kind of do that where you just don't want to even call them, check on them, because you know what? That conversation is going to end up like.

Vince. That's why the phones have special rings. So you have special rings for that person, so you know when not to answer.

Outstanding. Julie, this really. Thank you so much for allowing us to use your example. Those of you listening, leadership presence has to do with your stance. My stance is expectant, optimistic. I'm learning. Right. That's an incredible stance that you presented my talk. Yeah, I know it's bad. Okay. I know. That's not what I want to talk about. I Want to talk about solutions moving forward and how I will deal with this. And this sense of, of talk and stance is all about the focus. I'm going to focus on a positive end state. And we have done another in the relationships and results podcasts. We did one on end state that so often people are stuck in the current reality. I'll just take another drug today and feel a little better today. But I don't talk about end state. So this was just magnificent. Those listening. Leadership presence is comprised of three concepts. My focus, my stance, and my talk. And I think you did a beautiful job kind of shifting to what does victim language sound like? And I hang out with a grandchild and I had children and I was in schools forever. I know what victims sound like. It wasn't my fault. Mom took me out last night. I couldn't get home till late and I couldn't do my homework or the coach hates me. So how do we shift that? Reason I'm not playing is not because I'm not any good. It's because the coach hates me. And unfortunately, that particular story gets sold everywhere. It could be my leader doesn't like me and all of a sudden I'm in victim language rather than, okay, I'm having an issue with my leader. Let me go talk to my leader and say, what do I need to do so that you see me and use me as an asset on this team? It just shifts everything instantly. Ladies and gentlemen, I hope you enjoyed this one. I'm going to let them check out here and tell us what resonated with them because I watched them here with their eyes and every once in a while, different things kind of got them today. So I'm going to close out with what is your biggest learning or what resonated most with you in this particular conversation? You guys were magnificent. Who'd like to start?

I'll go first. The thing that resonated with me is when we role played being victim and how all of you could have easily been victims with me and sucked me into that, seduced me into that. But you didn't put that on there. You were just supportive and positive and funny and focused with me on the other side. And I don't think I realized that role of a leader. If there is a crisis, to not jump and get into the victim as well, but to really hold that leadership presence so that you can focus it on a positive stance. And I'm out.

Yeah. Sometimes the leader will grab onto the current reality, issues and problems and think, okay, I'm the leader. We should solve this right here, right now, rather than orient the entire team toward the end. State. That was brilliant. Thank you. Thank you, Julie.

Colleen, I think I'll build upon what Julie said there. I think it's really interesting because if your focus shifts, guess what? So does your presence and your talk. So when you. When we played the victim piece, and it's not that being a victim's bad and people aren't necessarily like, I didn't rescue you, right? And it was, I love you, it wasn't because I care. So I think it's really important to realize these are just ways of being. But as soon as the focus shifts, boy, does your language and your presence and your stance, all of that comes around as well. So how can we be so intentional and really have that heightened level of self awareness to notice? What are we focusing on? Because when we say this in the company as well, what you focus on grows. And it grows because your language reinforces it and your stance reinforces it and your presence. So just really thinking about how all of those are very interdependent. And.

I'd like to say something to the audience and to myself for this. I gotta be really careful because sometimes I believe people think if I commiserate with them, it's a statement of care and love. Right. And I almost think we're. We're trained that way. Look at any show on television right now. They're all dramatic and they're all people grabbing onto one another through their crises and all. It's almost like we built a herd mentality about what it looks like to help somebody in a crisis. And I think it is the opposite of what Jon Kabat Zinn says, the opposite of what Dan Goleman says, the opposite of what Senge and Kim say in the learning organizations. It's really interesting to me to see how our nation, on our world has a tendency to drift into that space of victimology rather than establish a leadership presence. That's beautiful, Colleen. Vince, what resonated.

So what resonated with me, man, was the. I listened to the difference of what my colleagues kind of took away. So Julie kind of recognized and had developed an appreciation for the different interactions that she may have from different leaders and groups that we interact with. Colleen kind of described the overarching results of your focus, your stance and your talk, and how as you shift those dynamics, it can shift your focus and therefore shift your outcomes. And so for me, as I put those two thoughts together, what was stand out to me was as a Leader, you don't have to be totally right or wrong. You don't have to drive towards one particular end. State number one, you need to be present and you have to give yourself some discernible decision space, not getting sucked down a rabbit hole by being a leader. If you are aware of your focus, your stance and your talk and how they can impact the team and your people, then you simply have to be present. And that allows you to maintain some clarity of focus and therefore better articulate your stance. You know, have a great stance that people can see, and then your talk will certainly emulate those two entities. So I thought it was just I was thinking about how those two spectrums of our conversation today tied in for me and my small brain.

I love it.

And I'm out.

Yeah. What you really gave us was an even deeper learning. Your leadership presence is a choice, and I think so many times people don't think it is this, I gotta behave this way. I actually hear that language coming from our clients. And so what you gave us that time was, wait a minute, I can choose to show up this way and to be present this way. This is magnificent. Thank you. Thank you all. As always. I have learned so much. What a pleasure being with you. All of these podcasts come from requests from our clients. They ask us to deepen their understanding about one concept, one practice, or one principle that we share with people as part of our leadership development work. Hope you enjoyed it. We'd love to know from you how you did or did not enjoy it. And if you didn't like it, please contact the United States Secretary. No, I'm just kidding. Just give us feedback if you liked it or didn't. I know there's always someone to talk to, but you can find us and find more about leadership and leadership presenceojlc.com and you can listen to this podcast on all of the normal podcast places that you turn to as you listen to podcasts. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you again very, very much for being with us. Take care.

Sincerest thanks.

Thanks for listening to this episode of.

The Everyday Leadership Conversations podcast. The Jorgensen Learning center offers a variety of programs for individuals and organizations to enhance their communication and leadership skills. To find out more about programs and upcoming webinars, check out our events page@gojlc.com.