The Four Agreements

In this installment of the JLC podcast.

Ray Jorgensen and the JLC team talk about how to apply the ideas found.

In the book the Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us here at JLC today. We have a very special podcast YouTube video that I think you're gonna really enjoy a lot. We have spoken with you often about how to create better meetings, how to create better one on one interactions. This one is about how do I take care of myself as I interact with others. I think you'll enjoy it a lot. I'll come to it in just a moment, but before I do, let me get my gang to introduce themselves. So, Julie, something about you that most people don't know. Tell us who you are.

Hi, I am Julie B. Wise. And one thing that people may not know about me is that I love to travel. And my family has been traveling since I've been three months old. And we always go to the same places. We go to Wildwood, New Jersey, and we go to the Bahamas and we go to Turks and Caicos. And that's just something that, that's the way that we spend our money is we save and then we go as a family to see each other, you know, to spend some quality time with each other. And it's been hard with the, with the COVID because all of our trips have been canceled, so. But I'm looking forward to possibly the next year to being able to travel and start that tradition again.

You may be able to double up, you know. Colleen, tell us about you something most people don't know.

Probably one thing most people don't know is that I despise cooking. In fact, I've been told I'm not actually a cook. I assemble things. So anytime you can open multiple packages, I'm in. But if it takes really time and concerted effort, it just seems to me more like a chore than actually something that people cherish. And I know a lot of my friends really like to cook, so I do my best to go over to their house when I can to enjoy their cooking.

So that's great. And do you enjoy their cooking?

Of course. The best thing is the thing I don't have to make myself.

Yeah, I think all of us have had that experience of going to someone's home or to a restaurant. We really love and enjoy what's given to us. So it's a lot of fun. Yeah. For me, I am home alone again. I'm home alone a lot lately. And my companion is Gertie Girl, she's a golden retriever. She's two and a half, and she's sitting right next to me right now. When I do recordings, she's generally right here. Hopefully no one will get her excited and she won't jump up in my lap in the middle of this. But that's kind of, you know, where I'm sitting right now and something I think most people don't know about me. So this one is about the four agreements, and let me tell you, ladies and gentlemen, how grateful I am that you took some time to be with us. We always talk about time as an important aspect of this century. So all of us are really, really grateful that you chose to be with us and spend a few minutes. This set of podcasts is about relationships and results. The other podcasts have really focused on the relationships of those that we work with. This one today is a relationship with self, and the four agreements are about how we show up. Now, normally I do three things. Today we're doing four, because there's four agreements. And I'm going to talk about each of the agreements, and then my incredible partners are going to weigh in on how those particular agreements land on them. The first agreement is to be impeccable with your words. I like that. I studied Latin for six, seven, eight years, and the idea to be impeccable is to be really clean and clear. And one of the disciplines that we teach for meetings is for people to speak from the heart. If it's safe and you feel courage and people are making the space okay for you to talk. Well, to speak from the heart is to speak in ways where your words are impeccable. I stay away from negative self talk, gossip, not belittling anyone. I really just want to use words that are clean, clear, and uplifting and will help the conversation go forward. What are you thinking right this second about that first agreement, Colleen?

I think being impeccable with your word, I really like the way you describe that. I think one thing that kind of surfaced in me when you first laid that one on the table is this sense of integrity. I'm going to be impeccable with my word. I am going to be, you know, have my behavior match my thinking. I'm going to ensure that if I make a promise that I keep it. So to me, my word means a lot, because as a professional, as a mom, as an individual, if I make a promise to my son, I want to follow up. If I say that it's important that you are respectful to others in your language and how you treat them, especially when I disagree. I want to mock that as well.

That's really good. Can you extend that a little bit? Julie, that was really, really beautiful the way you brought the sense of professionalism in the same context, parenting. I really want to be impeccable in my words and how I interact with my kids. That was really good. Jules.

I think to extend what Colleen said is something that oftentimes we focus on what we give our word to, and there's a space in there for what we give our word not to, meaning that it is okay. We have to realize what is our limitation. And when we can't. When we can't do it, we have to say right away, no, I'm sorry, I can't do it. And Brene Brown, you know, she often says, clear is kind, unclear is unkind. And too many times we say yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And then we know when we're saying yes that we really didn't want to go and we cancel last minute, or we say yes because we don't want to hurt their feelings. But then they find out later on that we did something else, and it becomes a mess. So not only is it important with your, you know, your word is impeccable to say yes, your word is also needed to say, no, I can't. And the instant you know that, you.

Need to share that, there's some freedom in that, isn't there? There's some ability for us to say it's okay for me to say no. So my trut. No, I cannot do that with you. I have a conflict. I have something else that's going on. We very often don't do that. And it's confusing. Jim Carrey was in a movie about just say yes to. This guy was promoting just say yes and all these good things will happen to you until they don't. And the unintended consequences of just saying yes can get you in a heartbeat. Excellent. Excellent. First agreement, be impeccable with your words. Let's shift to the second one. This is presented in a way that I. Sometimes it bothers me because it's a don't. It's a don't do this. Right? So I'm going to ask you guys to kind of shift it around a little bit. The second agreement is to avoid taking things personally in conversation. Watching television, listening to what's going on in social media right now. There's so much that we could take personally. When you take something personally as though it's against you, it limits your response. Because now I'm beginning to be offended. I'm beginning to be angry. And all of a sudden I cannot play anymore because I'm drifting to this space of judgment. So the reason why we talk about making sure that we don't take something personally is we will begin to drift into the judger path. And I no longer am on the learner path and I'm no longer noticing other people's ideas as potentially useful. And I'm now offended. To be offended is a choice. Those words just came out. They were neutral to positive. When the person sent them out, we chose to be offended. The danger. The danger in taking things personally. Notice how these pieces, these four agreements, are about me, about how Ray will work in the world. Of course I want the learning conversation guidelines out there for every interaction, every meeting, every. But this is how I work in the world. Let's start with you this time, Julie. How does that land on you, this idea of taking things personally?

First thing that it makes me think of is that it's impossible. Those of you who have listened know that I am passionate about things. I have trauma in my past, and even though someone may say something, my therapist said it is impossible to prevent my reaction. And so what I think we need to sort of also be unjudgmental of ourselves is allow that reaction, right? It's this, not in the moment, right? We're walking around with a straight face and numb and disconnected. No, we can have the passion and we can have the reaction, but then we have that space to clean it up afterward and say, oh, my gosh. That just. It hit me the wrong way. I need to talk to you a little bit more. Help me understand what you were thinking. And so I think that, you know, don't take anything personally doesn't mean in the moment, but as a whole, entire event, ensure that when you end it, it's not taken personally.

There's a piece here that you just made me think about, you know, in the context of breath. Sometimes something lands on me and I'm like, how do I breathe? How do I let the emotion go away and start thinking, what emotion do I really want here? You know, we can choose our emotions once they go beyond that initial reaction. That was magnificent. Thank you, Julie. Colleen, what's thinking?

Yeah, I was thinking, you know, what you said around the. You know, many times, we just react, right? And our invitation is, if you know, that's how you are, make sure you're in a space with yourself so you can breathe. Or if you're around, if you're in a meeting, you recognize that you need to take a pause and maybe walk out the door. The other piece I was thinking about is, you know, because we have, you know, you mentioned Ray, we choose our response. So how can I go from where Julie said, reacting to then choosing a new response? Right. Reaction. Notice, breathe, choose another response. What surfaced for me in that was part of a little bit of appreciative inquiry. When I hear something and I don't want to take it personally, I know sometimes I do, this might be a hot topic. How can I pause, flip what the person said, reframe it, then breathe and respond? So how can I find some positive piece and aspect in it instead of don't take it personally? What are the strengths perhaps, of what that person's offering that really, really resonate with me that I can, you know, look at, reframe that piece that they offered before I choose to respond?

That's really beautiful. And in fact, those of you that are listening, Colleen, the team has produced a little webinar that talks about reaction. Right. I'm reacting to what occurred. Beautifully stated by both of you. Then I get an opportunity to reflect and to breathe, Try and recover a little bit, reset, and then decide how do I respond? How do I respond? Using impeccable words to enable the learning to continue. That was really great. So if you haven't seen that webinar, we urge you to go to the site and take a look at it. It's really good. The third one is something that we practice this all the time, and it's called be careful of your assumptions. Now, we use something called the ladder of inference, where we see a thing, we see something, an event happen, and we run to the top of the ladder. They're very connected to the second one. And then I make a conclusion based upon what I saw. Well, the way I filter information is based on my attitudes, my beliefs, my biases, and my assumptions. So when Julie says something to me and I say, well, I really like Julie, I like the way she thinks. So I'm going to bring that into my little ladder, and I'll use it as I come to my conclusion. If I'm mad at Colleen for some reason that day and she says almost the same thing, I will subconsciously block it out. So we have to be really careful about this little dance we have internally with when our assumptions start to color. The way we listen and hear data that are presented to us could just be a situation. Somebody cut you off driving, Someone took your parking place. I mean, there's all. We immediately have assumptions about that human being and assumptions about that driver, you know, reaction. Be careful of our assumptions. Colleen, what are you thinking right now and feeling?

Yeah, I just think that many times, you know, it's our assumptions that get in our way. And so it can be another limiting factor because if I am operating on just assumptions, I'm missing out on a lot of other pieces of information that might help me make a more informed decision. So I think it kind of refers to me. And I remember we've had this conversation, Ray. I was like, oh, you know, I was following up on a new lead for a client, right? And they. I had a great first conversation. At least that's what I thought. That conversation was awesome. I was patting my back, thinking I did this great job of laying out our jlc, you know, what we do and our services and product line and then ghosted, man. I mean, I heard nothing. So I was thinking, oh my gosh, they must not like us. They must not know what's going on. What did I do wrong? So now I'm sitting here second guessing and thinking about it and honestly, you know, come to find out, you know, so I reach out to Ray and you were like, well, I'm like, I probably did something wrong. They didn't like what I had to say. He goes, well, do you think that or do you know that? And I think those two questions really help you self reflect on, am I operating on my assumptions right now? Do I need to pause, kind of walk myself back down the ladder to say, is there really any evidence of that? And to finish up my story, they were out of the country, they were busy. They came back, emailed me, and they hired me. So, you know, I think sometimes we get ourselves all spun up on our assumptions. So that gut check of do you think or do you know sometimes can be really helpful.

Ah, that's great. That's great. That's great. I think one of the things we do well for one another is help each other not get lost in our ladders, help each other not keep running up to our conclusions. And I like the fact that the language you guys use with one another is, do you know that? Do you think that that's beautiful, Julie, how's this one land on you again?

When we're thinking about ourselves, especially as leaders, we tend to think that we have no biases, assumptions, or beliefs about others. And this is one where you can do it by yourself and you just take some pause before meeting, before a conversation and really have an honest look inside at what, what assumptions are you holding for this person? What are you already listening for? What are you already looking for? Because we know that what you focus on grows. And so if you're going in with these assumptions that you don't even realize you have, you unintend and you know there's an unintended consequence of actually creating that behavior. Whereas if you in your head say, okay, I know that this person is going to give me feedback. And my assumption is that they don't think I'm doing the best job I can. Okay, wait a minute, maybe that's not true. That's what I think. That's not what I know. And so what could it also be? It could also be that their job is to mentor me. So they feel like they're helping me. Maybe they want me to be better. Maybe they just aren't sure about themselves and so they want to make sure that we're on the same page. There's so many other options that could be. And so by really making sure that as leaders, we reflect what are my assumptions, my biases, my beliefs, before I have conversations with people that can sort of slow down our reaction and help us respond more impeccably.

Thank you so much. Both of you have clarified another piece of this is about me. This is about our individual behavior. And that's why I love these four agreements, because it's about how will, how will Ray behave. If I follow these four agreements, I can behave a little more effectively. Keeping the practice in mind. Magnificent. The last one, I think, and I love your story. So it's really, this one really gets me. It's. It's fundamentally practice the other three and do your best. There's not the right thing to do or wrong thing, do your best. And I've always translated this for myself that when something would come back and I'd get that phone call from my boss about, ah, you didn't do this. I immediately, when I was a young leader, I went to what did I do wrong? And I very rarely shifted into, I didn't show up at work that day to do anything wrong. I showed up at work that day with all of my flaws and all of my issues and problems to do the best I could. So this sense of doing my best has two sides for me personally. One is that I really did not want to screw this up. I have made mistakes. I've had the alligators come bite me. I was trying to do my best. So this fourth one, which I really love, is to Keep reminding yourself, do your best, do your best, do your best, and stay out of self judgment. I'll start with you on this one, Jules. How's that land on you? This feeling piece for me is powerful in this one.

Yeah. There's so many areas where I feel like I'm not enough. And when I'm in that mode of feeling like I'm not enough, then that's when I tend to react. And I know a lot of times, especially with Colleen, she'll call me and, you know, say this, that, or the other thing and I'll get this sense of, oh my gosh, I did. I missed that. I should, you know, and then I start and I say, colleen, I just. I just don't want to let you down. I want to do the right thing, you know, and that sort of jars us both to realize that I'm freaking out about this because I'm trying to do my best. And we need to sort of back up a little bit, take a deep breath, make sure that we can clarify for the next time what went well, what are we learning and what are we going to do differently?

Love it, love it, love it. It's almost like you just built the after action review in the context of my intention was this. This is what I did. What did I learn? What can I do differently? Not what did I mess up, what did I screw up? What do I. Because that just puts us back into that reaction mode again, constantly reacting. That's just beautiful, Colleen. Take that one and run.

Sure. No, it's. It's. It's like we so quickly go to self judgment and so I've got to tell you. So when I first got my divorce, I was living in South Lake Tahoe and I had two little itty bitty, so like a, you know, four and a six. And it had just been a horrible, horrible night. And it was just, you know, a couple weeks fresh into this new situation with these little kids, and it snowed like a foot. So I get these guys in the car, I'm driving them to school, and I'm white knuckle in because there's so much snow coming down. And I'm making sure that I'm not. And I'm freaking out and they're screaming and fighting in the backseat and I literally lose it. I pull over, do my best not to go into this massive snowbank, and I'm just like. I start yelling at him uncontrollably and then I'm like, oh, my gosh. Oh my gosh, Colleen. Calm down. So I stopped, and then I started crying, and I was like, listen, I am doing my very best today. And today my best isn't very good, so I need your help. And these kids just stopped. And they were like, oh, my God. Ok, mama, I am so sorry. We'll be good. And they did. They sat in the backseat, quiet as a church mouse all the way to school. And I thought, you know what? I was so grateful to them because I think it comes a point when think about all these layers of uncertainty with COVID this, You know, we're feeling unconnected. And some days, hey, worst mom ever. I'll tell you that right now. And then there are days when I'm like, I had a great conversation with my son yesterday, and I was like, you know what? It made my day. So I think this piece about doing your best is, some days our best looks different. And that's ok. That is absolutely ok, because tomorrow is a new day, and it can be. I can show up differently, and my best can look differently as well.

So I love that you followed through on. Be quiet back there. I'm going to pull over. You know, I mean, how many parents have said that to their children? You know, I had twins for a little while, and then we had a third. But when we had the twins, they would be doing something, and I would always be yelling at the wrong one. And it was just so embarrassing, you know, and funny. They'd be, it wasn't me dad, it was Ray. It wasn't me dad, it was Doug. You know, so these. There's so many. And again, I was doing my best to get from point A to point B, you know, not kill all of us or anyone else on the way. Wonderful. Ladies, you were magnificent today. Let me review them. One, be impeccable with your words. Two, do your best to avoid taking things personally. Three, pay attention to your assumptions. Watch out, because they can kind of get you. And the last one, do your best. So with that all done and all said, what surprised you today? What was surprising to you in these interactions today? And I love this, that these four agreements are all about how will Ray work in the world? How will I show up in a conversation? What was most surprising to you today? Colleen, you start us off.

Okay, I'm gonna say what most surprised me is that they all fold into themselves. Okay? I'm saying this because my girlfriend Julie says that about our learning conversation guidelines. But the thing that I love is that they're all kind of interconnected. You know, I really see how Being intentional and focused on one. How they're very much not exactly for individual or kind of different agreements, how they really can support each other to be really effective as a leader, as a communicator, you know, in really every aspect of your life.

I love the way you made them interdependent. And I have to be careful when I'm planning to do work with you guys, that I don't create a reductionist environment where I break them all apart, talk about all their attributes. What we did today is we talked about how one fed onto the other and how they all loop around and make a complete causal loop over and over and over again. That's really nice. Thank you.

Unto themselves. Julie.

Oh, yeah, I got the smile there.

Yeah.

I think the thing that I got you.

I think the thing that surprised me is, you know, we all live in different parts of the world. We're all different ages, We've all had different backgrounds, and yet we all have similar struggles when it comes to these four agreements. And I think that the more we can remember and be vulnerable and reach out to other people and say, hey, I'm really struggling with this, and we can have conversations, then those conversations improve our relationships, and then we'll start to connect more and not feel so alone.

Well, as the youngest member of the team, let me just say how grateful I am to be on here with you and learn from your elderly wisdom. I love you guys. This was a great, great conversation. I hope those of you that are listening enjoyed it. And I want to make sure that I keep the four agreements in front of me all the time so that as I work with anyone, one on one, one on many, my privilege and honor to work with Julie and Colleen like in this, that I'm practicing those four agreements. It's just a privilege and a pleasure to work with professionals like this. And ladies and gentlemen, I hope you enjoyed it. Please, please hop on the website. There's more stuff on there. The professionals that work with me in this little JLC team are truly magnificent, and you'll enjoy listening to them on so many different opportunities. Remember, stop by gojlc.com so grateful for your listening today. We hope you, we hope we added to your day. Take care. Thank you. Sincerest thanks for listening to this episode.

Of the Everyday Leadership Conversations podcast.

The Jorgensen Learning center offers a variety of programs for individuals and organizations to enhance their communication and leadership skills. To find out more about programs and upcoming webinars, check out our events page@gojlc.com.