In this interview, Lyft co‑founder John Zimmer explains why autonomous technology is essential, citing the 33,000 annual traffic deaths in the U.S. and emphasizing that Lyft will not launch a driverless product until it is demonstrably safe. He describes Lyft’s early-stage development on a private test track, noting that their testing precedes many competitors and that they lack detailed knowledge of Uber’s efforts. Zimmer discusses Lyft’s self‑regulatory origins—criminal background checks, driving‑record verification, and a million‑dollar insurance policy—and argues that a third‑party validation system will be needed for autonomous fleets. He stresses the economic absurdity of private car ownership, highlighting that Americans spend about $9,000 per year on a vehicle they use only ~4 % of the time, making transportation‑as‑a‑service a more rational model. Zimmer envisions a future where people subscribe to mobility, with autonomous vehicles gradually sharing roads with human drivers, deployment varying by city. He stresses the importance of open access to autonomous technology through partnerships with OEMs, rather than exclusive ownership. Finally, Zimmer contrasts Lyft’s peer‑to‑peer origins and broader vision with Uber’s earlier market dominance and recent public‑relations setbacks, positioning Lyft to capture a $2 trillion annual car‑ownership spend.
Chapters
I don't know the details of the tragedy that happened in Arizona, but I do know that the broader idea behind why autonomous is important is because 33,000 people die every year in car accidents. And so for us, we're not going to bring any product to market until it's safe and ready to be deployed. But there is an important reason behind all this, not, not only just having autonomous rides, having more affordable rides and getting our cities off of this car ownership addiction.
But from what you know about autonomous technology at, at the moment. When you look at what Uber was doing or what you look at what Waymo is doing, you're riding, you're, you're testing your cars, by the way, on a track that's not out in the public yet, right?
Correct. We are— our efforts are earlier than, than other companies and we're on a private track.
Private track. So the question, though, is should these other vehicles be on the road yet? From what, from what you know about how all of this works?
I don't know the specifics of, again, Uber's technology.
Right.
I know that Google and Waymo's technology is extremely advanced, and I believe that they're top of the field right now. And so I think it depends on the provider. When we started our company, we— there wasn't a regulatory infrastructure for Lyft. You know, we were picking up people in personal vehicles, but we created a criminal background check, a driving record check, a million-dollar insurance policy because it was the right thing to do. Because we wanted our family members to take rides in our service. And so either we need to be, you know, self-regulating ourselves or there needs to be likely a third party that's validating that what we say is true is actually true.
Is it necessary? And there's a lot of questions whether Uber will shut down its self-driving efforts, its autonomous efforts. And I don't know where— how you think about your own. But do you think that these networks, the Lyfts and Ubers of the world, need to have their own technology, which is to say right now you contract out all of these cars and drivers without— you don't own it. It's a contracted business. In the future, do you think about it differently?
Well, again, it's important to think about the broad concept is our mission is to improve people's lives with the world's best transportation. And Americans spend $9,000 every year on owning and operating a car. So that's what happens when Everyone's doing this themselves. They use their car 4% of the time. That doesn't make much sense. That's the second highest household expense. The Americans spend more money on food than, than they do. I'm sorry, they spend more money on cars than they do on food. And so we need to have a better solution to the transportation system as it is. It's evolving. I think eventually people will subscribe to transportation as a service and we'll get to share in the benefits of lowering the cost.
Just real quick, is the worry that if you don't create the network yourself and have the technology that Waymo, BMW, Audi, which I think just did it, did a deal together, that others will do it first. Is that what's going on?
I think we want to make sure we have access to the technology. Yes, that's, that's critical for us. But you can see in some of the ways we've partnered or the way that we've developed technology, we're not trying to say we have to have it and no one else can have it, but that this should be— this is important technology that should be open to those that are going to operate safely.
How long before I walk out of the studio and step into a driverless car and it takes me home?
Seriously, how long?
I mean, the iPhone 10 years ago, you know, my kids think these have been around forever. And I mean, in 10 years, a lot has happened. 10 years from now, will I walk out and get in a driverless car?
Absolutely. Yes. Yes.
John, how many people are going to be driving cars?
Sorry. It'll depend on the city. In some cities, cities may decide that it's safer to have autonomous vehicles on the road. And separate areas where only autonomous vehicles—
It's like the Jetsons. It really is. So you're going to walk outside and it's going to come up and you're just going to get in the back and there's going to be nobody there and you're going to listen to a podcast and go somewhere, right?
Yeah.
Really?
A spot box. Yeah. Yeah.
You think— did you know this?
I mean, I know this is the vision.
Do you think it can happen in 10 years? Do you believe it?
I'm less optimistic. Not that it won't happen, but that it'll be a combination of drivers and Autonomous view. I think autonomous cars, places, autonomous cars in places where it's warm.
And that's absolutely how it will happen.
And I think it's going to be this sort of—
it'll be a mix—
technology that can make it safe.
It'll be a mix. So the thing that's different about how we're developing our technology from maybe a car manufacturer is we don't need the car to do everything. We only need it to do some things. And then we have an amazing community of drivers that do all different sorts of rides. And so as we continue to scale up—
GM. You are?
You are? We work with multiple OEMs, but we just have different, different needs for the autonomous technology.
John, let me just ask you about your market space. I mean, Uber got there first, was bigger, brasher, getting into all these places, but they have suffered black eye after black eye on a public relations front. How have you benefited from that?
Well, I think there's a couple of things. One, we started first with the peer-to-peer ride service. Uber started as a limo company, basically. And we were trying to create an alternative to car ownership. So it was a much bigger vision. What we're going after is a $2 trillion annual spend in car ownership.
But Uber became synonymous with like Kleenex. Don't hand me a tissue, hand me a Kleenex. I'm getting an Uber. Was— they were there with the mindset for people who, when you're in an area, in an urban city like this, that's where you would be doing it. However, Uber has stumbled badly. How have you benefited from that? There's the entire remove Uber.
Yeah, I think— I think We benefited by focusing on ourself, on our values, on our mission, on taking care of the people in our business, our employees, our passengers, our drivers. And in the end, yes, there's technology in our business. It's also a hospitality business, a service business, and that matters. And I think people are realizing that. Can I get a ride in 3 minutes with Lyft? Yes. Can I get it at or the same cost or a better cost? Yes. And can I get it with a friendlier driver who's happier Driving with Lyft? Yes, and that's why people are picking Lyft.
