Always on Offense: World Cup Lessons on Playing to Win in Every Area of Your Life

Welcome to the Optimizing Beyond podcast. I'm Josh Negron, and this show is all about sharing lessons, ideas, and strategies that sharpen your thinking, strengthen your habits, and push you to grow beyond comfort zones. Let's dive in. Welcome back to the show. Today I'm joined by Ashley again, my co-host. And we were just enamored by the World Cup this month and wanted to talk about some of the things that, especially being new to the sport, we'll be humble and say things that we noticed. And we came across a post on X that kind of discussed specifically the England-Argentina semifinal game. And, uh, we thought there were some good lessons there that would fit the Optimizing Beyond brand here. So, uh, without further ado, let's get to it. Welcome back, Ashley.

Yes, thank you. Yeah, like you said, we know nothing about soccer or football, if you will. My exposure to that is watching Ted Lasso, you know. I mean, I've— I didn't grow up around it and didn't understand it, if I'm being honest. A lot of it is you just watch people run around on a field for a really long time and nothing really happens, and it goes on for a really long time, right? But then we actually had a friend who had played in high school and a little bit in college who took the time to show and explain, and we actually watched a game together and like We would— he would stop the TV and be like, you know, VaynerWhite, and show us all the things and teach us about the game. And then it was like, it became so much more enjoyable because I understood the game. And, you know, I think there are a million life lessons that could even be gleaned from that, right? Like, yeah. And so it just became so much more fun. And then also watching all of the people come to the US and how much fun that they were having experiencing the US, um, it made— So much sense. social media so fun for that month, however long that was. It made it so much fun to just watch all of those posts. And yeah, we, I, as a friend said, I'm really glad it's every 4 years or we would get nothing done because we watched a lot of football.

We did. We did. And we're super thankful for Trey, who's been a guest on this show before, walking us through like all the simple things. Like what the heck is offsides? You know, like Ted Lasso jokes in the show that he doesn't know what that is, asking a ref, no, no, really. Like, what is it? Show me. Tell me, can you tell me what that is? And It was, it made, it made it make so much more sense. 'Cause in, in, in our mindset, we're like, why don't you go, go, you know, go for the goal? Why is he getting in trouble? It doesn't make any sense. And so it's, it was really fun to kind of get into it, especially in an event that only happens every 4 years. It ha— it obviously has like an Olympic style feel to it. And that's something you and I enjoy to watch every couple years when they come around. So in this specific scenario, and I'll link the original post down below in the comments, but the X post was talking about this match that happened in the semifinal between England and Argentina on July 15th. And if anyone watched that game, they know that England was up, right? And so it was a big deal because England hadn't been in the final since 1966 is what I saw. And so it, it was a big deal for them to do that. And I've got a couple friends that are really into soccer and they mentioned how being 2-0, like leading by 2 or 1 is like the most dangerous score because then you've got all this time. for the other team. You know, you don't know what they're gonna do and how they're gonna do it.

Yeah.

And so it was just interesting hearing that language. And then the guy who scored the goal was taken off by the coach and then another defender was put on. So you have 5 defenders in the back, which is just a very defensive posture from what I understand. And he's got back 5 with 30 minutes left plus extra time if there is any. And then a second wave of defensive subs, like it was definitely what could be interpreted as a really defensive play. So you're ahead, now all we gotta do is just wait it out, right? Is kind of what it feels like that approach was. And then what's the result? They basically possessed the, the ball less than 12% of the rest of the game. And then no surprise, Argentina, who's famous for coming back in the last 15 to 12 minutes, does what they do and totally equalizes it and then, and then capitalizes on it. And one of the points that was made in this X post was that The job's not done was one observation, right? And so just because you have made some progress towards your goal or you've accomplished something or even closed a deal, that the job's not done. You know, how important is follow-through? How important for salespeople is follow-up? We hear that a lot in the sales business that we're in, or even something like yesterday's win doesn't buy today's win, right? Or matter today. In the car business, we talk about at the beginning of the month, It doesn't matter what you sold last month, you're back to what? Zero.

Zero.

That's right. From hero to zero. So with that idea, Ashley, how did that— how did you view that?

Yeah, well, what's interesting is it actually makes me think about a conversation that we had today in a meeting around like finishing what you start. So many of us are great at starting things, but then we get distracted, we get discouraged, we start becoming defensive, we start, you know, approaching things from a defensive posture instead of an offensive posture. And so I think that plays out for so many of us in so many things. Like we start Great. We start losing weight. Awesome. We start eating healthy. Great. And then something happens and, you know, you have a rough day. So you're like, well, I'm gonna just, you know, I'm gonna just eat this. I'm gonna go run through this drive-through real quick. Or, you know, or you stay late at work or something comes up and then you are on your way home and I'm like, well, I don't feel like cooking now, so I'm just gonna grab this drive-through. You know, like whatever that is, it's so easy to start something and so much more difficult to finish it. Especially if I feel like deadlines are arbitrary, right? Like, you know, even like thinking about for me right now, something that I'm wrestling with is like, I know that I need to start working on packing certain things in this house, but that feels like forever away. So I'm not doing it. But what I'm doing is setting myself up for a crazy month of November and December if I don't start now, right? And so you have to, I think there's that combination of like, you have to set your own arbitrary deadlines and hold yourself to them. As if they were something that actually, you know, that the deadline for moving was in a month rather than in 4 or whatever that that's going to look like. And so I think it's, it's just so easy to, yeah, begin playing even the game of life, if you will, from that defensive posture of now, ooh, I got here, now I just have to wait it out till here. And I think we all do that in different areas of our lives, and that looks different for everybody.

Yeah, and that also goes with the accomplishment mindset that sometimes you're lulled into when you've been doing well in something. So for example, let's say that you've been eating really well for a certain period of time. It's easy. I mean, we're justifying machines as humans. And so we're really good at rationalizing or justifying. So in the health context, in the nutrition or fitness space, it's easy to speak to of, you know, you're like, well, I haven't cheated in, you know, 3 weeks. So it's almost, Easy to, to, to let yourself off the hook is kind of, kind of what you were describing. And so, so that follow-through and that finishing well is so critical and not something that comes naturally or is, is always pretty easy, you know, for most people. And so that's why I really love the phrase daily anything changes everything, because you're putting yourself in the daily habit of executing. And when I talk about the nutrition or the fitness space, like I have a lot of people that have conversations with me about in that arena. And I'm asked often like, hey, I'm thinking about trying this. And it's usually something extremely aggressive. Most of the time, especially if they're a beginner, it's biting off more than they can chew, likely more than they can execute comfortably or even reasonably. And it's probably something that they're— that I know they're setting themselves up for failure. Right. And so I know they're going to have a hard time finishing what they start in that arena. So. When we focus on those daily incremental gains, I feel like that's where so much more of the power is. And that causes the compound growth in the direction that you want. Whereas in this example, it kind of seems like, you know, they were, they were taking their foot off the gas or at least going defensive. And, and in that posture, it's tough to win something when you're not playing to win. You're playing not to lose, which is a totally different thing.

Yeah.

And there's a reason why that's a cliché. And that's, that's something that people say because it's, It's real. Was there, was there ever a time, Ashley, in your elbow recovery that you talked about recently where you were tempted to kind of be like, meh, that's good enough, like, and not push it any farther as far as, uh, you know, your, your PT or your recovery? Because obviously you talked about how, how difficult that road was and how challenging it was to execute that on a daily and weekly basis.

You know, I think honestly, like, when, after I was done with all the actual, like, doctor-mandated PT, like, hey, we've done the great for you. When I was doing the extra stuff to really get back into CrossFit-specific things, I think that's when it felt so much easier to throw in the towel because I had back my everyday mobility, my everyday part of my life. You know, I could, I could do everything at home. The, the gym component was the limiter, and it— there were days that I was like, I— this just isn't worth it anymore. Like, I'll figure it out, you know? Or like, we had to adapt a lot of things for a long time, and now I just, I Don't even know the last time I picked up a barbell. There came a point that, yeah, 100%, I was like, this just isn't worth it anymore. And realizing like, that's also okay in that specific instance. I had given it everything possible and going back to exactly the way that it was before wasn't an option. But I decided to make it a very long road to getting there before I made that decision and had to still do it.

Yeah, you didn't sit back. You actually—

No.

You said, like you said, you did everything you could and realized where the new threshold was.

Correct. Correct. And I felt like every day was finding a new threshold, or every week it was finding a new threshold of like, I can lift to here. Now I found it. Okay, we're going to back off a little bit, and now I can do this. And all of these years later, it's not actually my elbow and my bicep that caused me any problems. It's my shoulder and my trap. That's the part that actually is more of a residual leftover, if you will, residual injury than the elbow or the bicep, even though both of those sustained most of the injury. So it's just because our bodies are so connected and so intertwined and everything, you know, works, has to work together perfectly. That's, that's been hard to like swallow and figure out. But again, like I'm still learning new cool things that I can do that don't involve, you know, yeah, being on a pull-up bar or picking up a barbell. You just have to, you have to be intentional about finding the other option. And I, I think it's, it's part of what we even talked about again this morning is like every problem has a solution. It's how you choose to look at it that's going to impact how you process and deal with it. If you are like, okay, I'm going to, yes, we have a problem. There's always problems. But am I going to look at it from just whining and complaining about here's my problem or throwing all of the worst options and the worst possible things that can happen in the middle of everything? Or am I gonna go, okay. Here is my problem. Here are— what is it our mentor Danelle says? What are the 3 things I can do right now to impact or make a difference in this problem? So those are all— it's all choices and how we choose to look at it. Yeah, and there's, there's definitely a difference of playing to win versus playing not to lose. And we have to make that decision so many times a day in so many different areas of our lives, and we probably do it and we don't even realize it. And I think if we would stop and think about what does that look like, which way am I playing this, we might do some things differently. Or, um, we might involve others earlier, or we might ask for help earlier. I'm wrestling through that with a thing that I've got going on, uh, you know, a project at work of like, I really probably need to go ahead. It's time to ask for help. You know, I, I've just been playing not to lose at this point about this, not playing to win it. And so I need to shift my mindset and figure out how do I change the situation? Yeah.

Yep. Well, and it's that temptation to go conservative, like what the team did, right? And I get asked a lot because I tweak my nutrition and my health and constantly make adjustments and get lab tests done and see what Whoop recommendations are, what my primary care doctor's recommendations are, what can I— what's working, what's not, what do I sub out? And I've had a lot of people, including medical professionals, ask me like, why are you so intentionally focused on this? done so much, or you've, you know, you've got all these things dialed in, like, just, you know, freaking give it a rest, you know. And our— we've like, we've got all these mentors that have these different sayings. So Glenn Lundy says always be on offense, right? That's the same thing as playing to win. Danelle talks about life is a forward fight. Only do things that advance you forward, not backwards, right? That's not arguing for conservatism in that capacity either. And so It's one of those things where we talked about the cost of comparison, how it's a thief of joy. Comparison, there's that whole episode where you don't have to review it here. But with that premise, I could look at somebody else who's less disciplined and go, oh, well, yeah, I don't need to keep looking at things to change or to adjust or whatever. And so there have been times where it has been tempting to stop a habit, or sometimes those things can be pretty time-consuming or affect your life in certain ways. that make it really difficult sometimes to keep following through. But I think that's where if you identify the core habits that are the highest yield, the most, like gratitude, for example, it's one of those things that I don't think I'll ever stop doing because I think the cost of time, which is 10, 15 minutes, the benefit way outweighs that cost, right?

Yeah.

So you may look at this conversation and go, okay, it sounds like you're saying push forward, keep attacking, always play offense, hustle, hustle, hustle. So a natural critique here could be to be like, wait a minute, you guys, this is a little bit of whiplash. Because you guys just talked about how rest is important and over-optimization is something that can be a risk. So how, how are you also saying now we have to just, you know, pedal to the metal at all points? I want to make several distinctions about this. So first of all, I would argue that England didn't rest. There's a difference between— I mean, they could have all just sat on the bench. Obviously, that's, that's hysterical. Like, they wouldn't do that. But in this case, this was, this was different. Playing in such a conservative manner can be linked to being overly conservative, fear-based, like really wanting to make sure that you protect, you know, park the bus, make sure the other person can't score so that you can bleed out the time and win versus just going full offense and just closing it out, right? So for us, for people of faith, you know, we believe that Sabbath and rest are commanded. Panic Is not. In fact, do not worry, and those kinds of things are also commands in there. So, but there's a difference between saying, I'm going to choose to recover or play so that I can do well tomorrow or execute well tomorrow, versus saying, I'm going to do this so I hope nothing bad happens in the next, you know, just being in that like overly conservative posture there.

Mm-hmm.

So, There is a juxtaposition between rest and fear-based action, which I would argue is the distinction there. And I've had these conversations with employees at work as well. So you can listen to that initial message to someone saying, always playing offense and always life is a forward fight and always do these things. That's understanding that necessarily all in a work context might kind of get those things out of context. So let me frame it this way. I've told employees before, when they're at work for 8 to 9 hours a day away from their families, that's a cost. They're trading their time for money and taking that time away from their kids, from their spouse, whatever. I would argue, and there's authors that I got this thought from, but I would argue if you're not maximally intentional with that time that you are away from them, You are robbing them from— of you and wasting your time at work if that's what you do. Whereas it's arguable that if you're at work, you should focus on work and only work and how to do it in the most intentional way possible so that you do not squander the time that you are away from, particularly if you're in a commission-based job, obviously. Like if it's hourly, it's a little different. There's, there's other reasons you should do, do your best work.

Mm-hmm.

That, that we don't have time to have a conversation here about. But for specifically commission folk, like if you don't have anything in your pipeline and you don't build it and you make barely anything, then, then that's even more true in that context. And I've, I've heard plenty of people speak to that and books write about that. And I, I gotta say, that is a powerful thing to reflect on if you're looking at that personally and you have enough humility to reflect on that honestly. As she talked about, um, sometimes the difference between sloth mode, as you say, in a previous episode versus rest, right? I think we can all identify with that concept. I'll have you kind of expound on it because I think we all have moments where we kind of veg out and then the day's over and we don't feel rested.

Yeah.

Right. So draw us the distinction on how you view the difference between, you know, what you'd coined sloth mode that you can fall into Versus intentional rest that's actually restorative.

Yeah. So I think I've kind of had to figure out what that looks like for me. I think for me, I've come to the distinction of like, the difference is that we aren't going to work in a capacity of like on our businesses, or we're not going to spend a lot of time like working on our computer. Let's, you know, this last weekend, like I spent time with friends and with family and you went to a men's conference and You know, and then we had dinner with some other friends. Like, that day was so restorative and restful for me because I was filling my cup with people. I was enjoying that time with them. And then yesterday it was like, okay, well now we have things to do, right? And that doesn't mean that like I'm not gonna work on chores or, you know, whatever that that might look like. A couple weekends ago, you know, we had friends over to watch the World Cup final. And so that meant that the day before, like, I was doing some other deep cleaning and I was preparing for the party and I was doing other things. But like, that was restful for me.

Mm-hmm.

In a way that on the other side of the day I was like, oh, I'm tired, but like I'm rested. Like my soul is full. And I think that's the distinction, is have I done something that has filled my cup, filled my— if you're a believer, like that language will make sense to you, you know. Have I done something that was restorative and engaging and fun? Have I— it doesn't mean that I sit in my chair on my phone all day or I'm just watching TV. You know, that could mean engaging with friends, going to do some shopping if that's what you're, you know, if that's something that you love, going to see a movie, going for a hike, finding fun free things to do in your area, you know, going for a drive, playing a game, whatever that, that looks like. We just had to start making this distinction between spending all of this time on our computers and working versus realizing like, oh, we're, we're not spending as much time with people as I would like. We are not going and doing things that were Yeah, that were filling my, my cup. I was starting to feel a little bit drained even though like I wasn't going anywhere, but that, that became not fulfilling anymore, I guess. You know, and, and have been really like processing through what that means in my own life. And actually, but my, my dear friend on Saturday night at dinner actually said, well, you know, as she was processing a, a big loss and grief in her life the year before, she said home was my safe space. Home was where I could grieve and process and be willing to step into that, and it was my safe space. I needed time to do that. And I think that was probably some of the biggest— it made me like breathe a sigh of relief. I was like, have we forgotten how to have fun? Like, I don't think that's true, but it feels like maybe that we have. But I think that something kind of shifted from like I was super content being at home for a long time, and I'm realizing that I think that that probably was my— the processing of the grief. And that was home was safe, home was restorative. And now have hit a spot where like, that grief is lessened. And I'm ready to go back to the adventures and the fun. And so I think that's, yeah, that, that for me is the difference between like the sloth rest and the resting to restore.

Yeah, I mean, what a, what a powerful way to frame that. I absolutely agree. And so this, I think this leads us into how Those kinds of behaviors can potentially leave you vulnerable to attack. In a, in the game sense, it would be that left them vulnerable to Argentina, obviously. But the, the original post framed it this way, like, never invite the competition to your doorstep. And so in this example, in the game, Argentina was actually planning for England's fast attackers to be subbed into the game. And so they were braced for England's top dudes coming in. And they never did. And so they were like, okay. So they went, they actually, one of their players that was meant to be more of a defender got to actually be more aggressive. And what Scaloni said in his own words was he saw blood in the water. And so they were like, awesome. Like, let's just capitalize on it. Now us being CrossFit fans, I mean, we've watched the CrossFit Games for a long time. And this kind of, this conversation happens in competition a lot where like they can, you know, if you can see that a competitor is, is struggling or having a hard time, then that can almost motivate those types of people, especially competitors, and go, okay, well, I know we're both hurting, but he looks like he's hurting more. So if I can push that, I can exploit it and then I can win.

Yeah.

And so it's, it's like reading the notes, you know? And, uh, and if you're saying, well, what's my competition in my context? It, it can be a lot of things. For personal things, it can be your relationships. They can suffer if you're not intentional or, um, Or focusing on them, right? Or your health, aging, those kinds of things. Like if you're, if you're not being intentional with your health, then you may have a very intense doctor's appointment sometime in the future where he has to break it to you that, uh, that you have some things that you don't want to hear. And so if you invest daily now, which takes hard— is hard work, then you can potentially avoid a big hard thing later. And that's, that's the, you know, the whole concept of choosing your hard is where, is where that comes from.

Yeah, I think I even remember in one of the CrossFit Games documentaries, Mat Fraser talking about, like, he came into a Games with an injury and told no one. No one knew he was injured because he knew if they smelled blood in the water and they thought, even for just the tiniest, tiny little amount, that he might not be able to live up to— I think this was like number 4 or 5, right?

Yeah.

He had been in the space for a while and people knew his mentality and people knew what kind of a competitor he was. And he knew if they smelled the blood in the water, it would end his— it had the potential to end his unbeaten streak. So he said nothing to no one and dealt with it on his own all weekend. I don't even think his coach or his spouse or anybody knew he was hurt till later because he didn't even want to—

Congrats, man.

Yeah, didn't even want to give them an opportunity. And I think for him mentally, first of all, he's one of the most incredible, intense competitors I have ever watched when it comes to his mentality and how relentlessly And ruthless that he is. But I think it was even one of those things that he was unwilling to even speak it out loud. He was unwilling to give it any kind of power in the room. And I think that is, that is knowing himself, that's knowing other people. And I, if I remember, I could be wrong, I, I might be wrong about this, but if I remember correctly, it was one of the years he won by the largest margin. Like he He was unwilling to even give it weight. Like, it's probably one of the coolest things about him was like, once you found that out later when everybody's— nobody knew till the documentary came out. It like post-interviews, post-done all the things, that's when it came out that he had been injured and kicked everybody, even injured.

Yeah. Well, and they, the competitors, when you hear them talk about him, he was somebody that was unbeatable to a certain extent in their minds. And so because of that, that gave him gave him obviously a tremendous advantage. And by being pretty private about it, like you said, I mean, he, he was able to keep that away from them. And arguably, I don't, I don't know if he still would have won, but it definitely would have been a closer margin for sure. So that, that leads us to the last point that he made, which was about courage. And the point was that courage changes everything. Winston Churchill, he gives a Winston Churchill quote here of courage is rightly esteemed The first of human qualities because it's the quality which guarantees all others, which is a super powerful quote. And I would frame it this way. I've had it described to me that people naturally pursue comfort. And when you do that, that also means a certain degree of avoidance of the uncomfortable, which is not having the conversation you need to have with your spouse, with your kids, with your employer, with your employee, with your peer, whatever it is.

Yep.

Avoiding the hard things to avoid the cold Call, the sales call, the whatever. Call reluctance is a real thing. I remember that in so many jobs that people would be too scared to call the guests and tell them what they needed to hear. And so—

Mm-hmm.

Whatever conflict or thing that you're avoiding, a lot of mentors will say is where your largest opportunity for growth and maturity are. It's like they hold your, your avoidance and comfort are actually locking your potential. They're holding the keys to what you could unlock.

Mm-hmm.

And that has so much truth to it. You could, you could watch hours of, uh, inspirational content that speak to this. You said in episode 42, Ashley, that to be kind is to be clear, right? That idea of avoiding a hard conversation feels like the nice thing to do, the kind thing to do, but it really isn't.

Yeah.

Because actually having, uh, the conversation, it lets you and the other party know where things are at and then can potentially, uh, push through that. So, um, so an easy way to execute on this from an application standpoint is looking at, you know, what, what thing are you avoiding? Usually you don't have to dig too deep to know what tasks, what people, what conversations, what— whatever, whatever things that you're avoiding has a huge potential to take you to the next level in something.

You're right, it is. It feels so much easier to not have those conversations. I also think like we build them up in our own mind about how hard they're going to be or how difficult this is going to be, or we have the conversation thinking we know how the other person's going to react and respond. And 8 times out of 10, it's nowhere near close to how we had this whole conversation in our mind. So if we would have just had it initially— like, we've built it up to be way bigger of a thing in our brains than it actually is, or by the time we get there, we're so stressed out about it that then, you know, it's— we come across way different than we maybe meant to because we've been mulling this whole thing over when really it could have just been a way simpler, less, less formal conversation, or way more, more of a, an inquiry of a conversation rather than this, what tends to be more aggressive by the time that we get there and we finally get the courage to actually have the conversation. You know, this is actually one of the things that our management team at work has really worked hard on over the last several years, is being willing to have the conversation, to ask the questions If you want an answer to something, just go ask the question, right? Like, we're here to help each other, and we've learned so often over the years, like, you know, it's way easier to just literally just go have the straight-up conversation. Like, less and less of the time now do we hang on to something and then wait to ask them or to ask for help or to inquire about something. Like, we don't hang on to those things as long anymore. Like, we utilize the resources around us and we want to help each other, and we know that each other has the best interest of our fellow managers and of the dealership at heart. And so I think That because we have practiced it, it has gotten easier. It's just like a rep in the gym, right? Like it becomes easier and easier and easier the more that you do it. And so I think that, yeah, courage is one of those things that becomes— Denelle talks about this— it becomes easier the more that you do it. And so find something to be, yeah, to be courageous about.

Yeah. So powerful. And it's, it's, you may be thinking at this point, you're like, man, this is a little dramatic for a football match. And the post actually recognizes that and says, yes, Yes. You know, but the principles in this idea are real. And the, the final lesson that he draws out in this is you don't win by protecting a lead. You win by continuing to play to win. And I think that is so powerful in not just a, you know, sport context, but also in a work context. And then, like we talked about so often in the personal context, oftentimes I think personal can be even more important to, to put work into than, than professional. Because if you're a better, more whole person personally, you will be better professionally automatically as well. So the challenge is obviously if you're behind, you already know you have to fight for the lead. That's almost like a lot of competitors will tell you they'd rather try to win from behind than to be the one in the lead because, you know, and, and we'll, we'll talk about F1 in future episodes. I'm sure we're huge F1 fans, but When you're in front, you have to set the pace. And, and there's certain things where you're like, man, like there's a stress in that that you don't have when you're chasing someone down.

Yep.

And so it's, it's a completely different posture. And so for the person who's in the, in the lead, that's why it's dangerous. That's why they say that's a dangerous score. So daily anything does change everything if you're willing to put in the work. And it doesn't have to be drastic work. It just has to be daily incremental work. And that's why we believe in it so much. So thanks for listening to the Optimizing Beyond podcast. Remember, growth happens when you take action. So subscribe, share this with a friend, and most importantly, put what you learned into practice. Because as we know, daily anything changes everything.