Olympic Pressure: Contrast Between Performance and Joy | Ft Ashley Negron

Welcome to the Optimizing Beyond podcast. I'm Josh Nagron, and this show is all about sharing lessons, ideas, and strategies that sharpen your thinking, strengthen your habits, and push you to grow beyond comfort zones. Let's dive in. Welcome back to the show. Today we're going to discuss the Olympics. That's right. You may have seen. seen plenty going on with the Olympics. The United States has won a lot of gold. And today, actually, the United States won gold in hockey, which hasn't happened in how long? What'd you say, Ashley?

Uh, since the Miracle on Ice in the early '80s. I think they— I think it was '82 I saw, '83. So it'd been like—

That's crazy.

40-plus years.

Yeah, for sure. So it's been, it's been enjoyable. And I'll tell you, like, it's hard to catch everything, obviously. And I, I think we canceled Peacock like 2 months ago, which— that was a horrible mistake at this point.

That was bad timing. Yeah.

So We've been catching the, I mean, for me, my favorite ones have been the gold medal montages of each day. And I think that's really cool 'cause you get to see lots of different things. You know, obviously you get to see the best performance of that sport for that day, which I think is really cool. But then you also get to see just all the different reactions of people's long-fought fruit of all their efforts. And the Olympics only every 4 years too. Just 'cause you win Worlds doesn't mean, you know, the Olympics has that extra juice, right? So you get to see their reaction. You could see their coaches, their family, everybody celebrating. What I found cool to see is you'll see that all the different types of athletes, you'll see the veteran that's never gotten gold, you know, and it's, this is basically like their last one. Maybe they're like mid to late 30s or something, and then they'll finally get it. And just a relief of finally achieving it. Then you'll see the dominant one that's the favorite, just crushing it, you know, Olympics after Olympics. And then the Kazakhstan figure skater, right? That like got gold totally didn't expect it. And so that winning your first gold without even thinking, you know, when he went, he did not, that was not on his bingo card, you know?

Yeah.

So it's super cool just to see all those different things. Obviously we could, we could have multiple podcast episodes about the Olympics, but we wanted to contrast the, to stay on the theme of ice, we wanted to contrast the difference between Ilya Malinin, who is obviously the clear favorite to win gold. And I don't even think I need to say arguably the best figure, male figure skater The best figure skater ever. I mean, when I looked it up, nobody has landed a quad axel in competition except for him. So there are other people that have maybe have landed them in practice, but as far as sanctioned competition, this guy crushes it. And so he was obviously the favorite to win. And then Alysa Liu, and just the difference between the Olympics when she was 16, 4 years ago, and now. And so we wanna kind of COVID those 2, uh, because the, they both went differently than I think everyone expected for both of them. And again, there's a, there's a really strong contrast. It was something that we really just wanted to discuss with you guys. So Ashley, what, what were your thoughts to get us kicked off?

Yeah, I think honestly, like it's one of the most practical played out back-to-back examples of how pressure can make you, make you crumble or just doing something because you love it and the passion and the freedom that comes with no expectations, the con— how those 2 things immediately contrasted each other in back-to-back evenings. And so, you know, Ilya talks about like, man, if I could have gone to the Olympics 4 years ago. He didn't, he didn't make the Olympic team 4 years ago, so this was his very first time. He had all of the expectations of the world on him, right? Like, that arena was packed, standing room only. Everyone came to see him. Yeah.

Hmm.

And I saw a, a post about a post that he had made that said, as he went out onto the ice, you know, leading up to that, he started thinking about every— you start thinking about every mistake, every conversation, every time you failed, every, every negative thing starts to fill up your mind. And that's what, that's what ended up winning out was the pressure and the negative side of things. You know, and he said, I went in so confident, maybe I was overconfident. And so I think that, that You know, um, I, in the middle of that, like, I felt so bad for him, like, watching it just literally fall apart and there was nothing he could do to redeem it.

Yeah. And for those of you who don't know, so he, he was the favorite to win. He was at the very end of the evening because, you know, you could save the good, the best for last.

Yep.

He was the number one seed. Yeah, for sure. And so the, the entire arena is packed out for this guy. I don't always follow figure skating. So I had heard over the last couple days that he was gonna be an absolute show to watch. And so we were watching like probably for like 45 to 50 minutes because they, you know, they always tease the person coming up at the end, but you don't always know how long that's gonna be. So we were watching all these other skaters and all these other sports. And I'm like, okay, like this kid better be worth it. But then he gets up there and you can just tell like he has. I mean, he has swagger and confidence, and because he knows like I mean in his belief, in and in past interviews, like he's just very confident.

I mean, he gave himself the nickname Quadgon.

Like he did. He did.

That confidence that comes.

That's his nickname from calling himself. He's also going on 14 straight wins in competition. Okay, so this he's not like he's not a noob. He's like he is. He is there to win and there to crush. And then spoiler. he completely falls apart. When he's supposed to do his first quad jump, it ends up being only like a double or maybe a triple.

Mm-hmm.

And then you think like, okay, nerves, whatever. And then he, again, like stumbles and falls. And he wasn't the only skater to fall that night. So I— there were a couple skater experts that I talked to that, uh, that were like, you know, maybe there was something wrong with the ice, 'cause it seemed to always be in that area, in that, in that corner there, or, in that end of the rink rather. And, you know, maybe so, maybe there was some soft ice over there, maybe there were some things going on. However, it didn't change that the performance was not great. Nonetheless, the guy from Kazakhstan who ended up winning gold, he had an absolutely incredible performance and, and Ilya got 8th. And so, Ashley, share with us what, share with us what Alyssa Liu did and kind of some of that background. And then we can talk through just the kind of different approaches.

Yeah, so, um, I wasn't familiar with Alysa Liu until going into these games. You know, she, she went to the Olympics 4 years ago when she was young, and then 2 years ago she actually literally quit figure skating completely. She said, this isn't fun anymore, I, um, I'm not enjoying this, I am done. And so she actually didn't compete for about 18 months, and then not very long ago she decided—

And her coaches said That her coaches reported that there were multiple times where she would get dropped off and she was just crying in the hallway. Like, there was so much pressure on her, so much control over what she could eat, what she could do. Yeah, I mean, it sounded horrible.

So she actually made the decision to step away from competition completely and take a break and then decided to come back on her own terms. And she said, you know, if I, if I come back, I want to pick my music. I want to be involved in the program. I want to design my costumes. No one's going to tell me what I can and can't eat. If I need to work harder, I will. If I'm burned out and I don't want to skate, I won't. I am in control of this now. And so I think what we watched, you know, and, and like, she's known for the, the striped hair and, you know, just the, the kind of slight wildness that comes with being 20, right? And, you know, what you really just watched was someone who was doing it because of the joy and the love of the sport, not because there was all of this pressure. And she said, you know, I'm just here to show my art. And you could genuinely see that, and she has beautiful skating. I mean, her lines and her jumps are just otherworldly. If you have not seen them, I highly recommend going to do that. But she skated with no pressure, and so that contrast of going in with the weight of the world versus all of these expectations, and then on the other side, someone who's just— not that Ilya doesn't love it, but he came into this with all of the pressure.

Mm-hmm.

All of the expectations. No one had any on her, right? Comebacks don't typically go like that.

Yeah, that's true.

Comebacks can— they normally— her coaches actually tried to talk her out of it. Comebacks can go very, very badly. And she came back, and she had won Worlds before coming to the Olympics, and did it because of the joy and love of the sport. And so I think there's some really good life lessons that we can take from the greatest of the greatest, the most elite. The mindset that it takes to be able to perform at that kind of a level, how do we then apply that to our own lives? And so I think there's some really cool lessons there.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, and she mentioned that she was not planning on going back to figure skating. She just ended up doing some skiing, and then she was like, hmm, maybe I'll strap on some skates again. And she said she did, I don't remember if it was a double axel or a triple axel, But she landed it like the first time after putting the skates back on. And she was like, hmm. And she decided to call her coach and was like, hey, new ground rules. This is, this is how we're going to do it. And so, um, it's such a unique approach that I think is, uh, is important to highlight because the pressure really can get you. We talked before about, in my episode about the expectation effect, right?

Mm-hmm.

In the story that you tell yourself, the narrative that you tell yourself, we know that the placebo effect works, but there is something called the nocebo effect as well. and has an inverse reaction. And so he seemed to have gotten overwhelmed by negative thoughts, negative emotions, like all the things that you need to do and execute well. And that to him, again, the best figure skater, it got to him and he could not perform, right?

Yep. I think, you know, it also comes down to some of the conversations we've had too around like the one that you feed. What are you feeding those young, young people? Like the pressure from social media, the things that people say about you, what are they taking in? what are they allowing into their, their heart and their minds, then at the time it may not feel like anything. Like you may not, you know, realize the consequences of that. But then in those high-pressure moments, do we revert back really quickly to that? Or do— that's what gets brought up in our mind, right? Like our brains are trained to bring up the worst-case scenario, right? It's why you wake up in the middle of the night or you're trying to go to sleep and your brain goes, hey, remember that thing that you did back when you were in 8th grade and that, that time that you were completely and utterly humiliated and embarrassed and whatever, like, right? That's— our brains are trained to do that. And so we have to feed it something different, you know? And, and I don't know, you know, what he's allowing, what he's taking in, what kind of music he's listening to, what kind of people he's surrounding himself with. No idea, not a clue. But from a personal, like, standpoint for us practically, again, it's back to that concept of what are we feeding and allowing. And so what What are we going to tell our brains is the truth? That story that we tell ourselves. What are we going to say that I can do this or I am capable of this or I'm not gonna allow this into my heart and into my mind? We just have to be so careful with what we, what we fill ourselves with.

I agree. I, I also enjoyed, you may have noticed, but before she won gold, when she finished, Ilya was there and the camera cut to him and he was like so happy for her and celebrating. how well she skated, because I think he knew that was a podium performance. I don't know if he knew it was gold, of course, but he was— he was— it looked genuinely like joy and appreciation for what she accomplished there, which is something that's going to be kind of a bittersweet thing for him because he wasn't able to execute right. So that was a really cool thing to witness, just that sweetness in that moment where he was like— he approved and he was so proud and happy for her.

Yeah, well, and also, like, you know, if you go back and look at the clips of him after completely Because he was the last one, right? You talked about he was the last one to go for the evening. So it was pretty obvious very quickly through the routine that he was not going to medal. And the way in which that he handled himself, the maturity that he brought to the table, and the way in which that he congratulated the young man that won, and the way in which that he— the posture and he carried himself, right?

Mm-hmm.

So in that sense, he carried himself as someone way older and more mature Than the age that he is, right?

Mm-hmm.

You know, and if you go back and watch, they did, like, an exhibition skate at the very end of all of this. And we watched it yesterday. He skated to NF's song Fear. And I couldn't help but think, like, how much more appropriate that that skate was after having lost the gold and after having, like, everything crumbling, right? He didn't burst into tears. He didn't completely and utterly melt in that manner off the ice. He stayed calm and composed and just had to figure out how to roll with it. And in the coming days and in all of the interviews and all the scrutiny and all of the social media, and honestly, like, I'll tell you that that probably defined who he is more for me than the fact that he quote unquote failed on the ice. My suspicion is that he will learn far more That's right. From failing than he would have if he would have won. And my guess— I mean, he still has several years ahead of him. He's super young. He's, he's got time, right? He's got a good couple of Games left in him at least. But I have a suspicion that we're going to see a new, mentally tougher, stronger Ilya, and he will now become unbeatable. But often we have to have those moments of complete and utter, like, destruction sometimes to get our attention and to actually rebuild and teach ourselves to put up guardrails in place and to teach ourselves what it means to withstand the pressure and to perform under pressure. And we, we often learn more in the moments that we fail than we do in the moments of victory and triumph.

Well, and you and I like to study champions, right? Whether it's Michael Jordan or Tom Brady or other dynasties like that. And I, I think when you, when you were saying that, I thought of Tom Brady and how he describes that the most powerful shaping moments for him were the Super Bowl losses, right? I mean, the way he talks about them and the language that he uses, it's very— you could tell those lessons were definitely the ones because they still elicit a lot of emotion when he's describing those moments and those plays and what lost them the game and the helmet catch and all that crazy stuff. And so You can, you can really tell the power of failure when you can approach it in the right way. You know, whether it's John Maxwell talking about failing forward and using it to your advantage. There was a podcast I listened to, uh, 5 or 6 years ago that talked about when they surveyed a ton of successful people, they asked, what trait do you think is the most important in business or whatever sector that they were in? And the answer, he's like, the number one surveyed answer was resilience.

Mm-hmm.

Right? How you come back from when you crumble or were crushed or were defeated. And so for Ilia, I think even already, like you said, he has shown that he probably has some decent resilience. Just even, he did not look dejected. I mean, obviously, especially the interview right after the loss, you could tell, I mean, he was disappointed.

Yeah.

I mean, he's human, for crying out loud. But then, yeah, you're right. The different days leading after, it's looking like he's gonna come back with a vengeance. And that's in that case, like, it's different when you're defeated by an opponent, right? If they outperform you and you gave it everything, what do people say? If I can go, if I can put my head down on my pillow at night and say, I gave it everything, and if it wasn't enough, then I'm like, then I can be at peace because I did everything I could. But when you defeat yourself, right?

Right.

When your mind betrays you and then you just crumble under pressure or a situation like that, that is tough to handle. It's just so important to, like you said, like, what are you listening to? What are you watching? These are, these are very practical things, and they, they might sound stuffy or like, you know, old school, but it, it has a lot of, you know, we talk about like who your circle is, who your community is. That's gonna, you know, show me your network, I'll show you your net worth. Those are the people that you're gonna become. Talked about that in the last few episodes. And so all of those things, guarding your mind, guarding your heart against, uh, negativity and, and those kinds of things can be, can be so pivotal on, Mm-hmm. on your trajectory in life, your potential for success. And so much more even.

And I think just going a little bit deeper on, um, you know, on Alyssa, to watch her just skate because she loved to do it was so beautiful. And to understand more of the backstory and more of that, like, for us, like, what does that look like? Like, we need to find something that brings us joy and that, um, that feeds, feeds our soul, feeds, you know, a passion and a desire that's in there within us. Like, how we— how do we find that, and then how do we hang on to it? And sometimes, you know, people who tend to be entrepreneurs, um, create and, and create a business around something that they love and that they're passionate about because it fits a need and a niche and whatever. And then eventually, without proper boundaries and without staying the course and bringing other people along, right, like all of a sudden what they once loved now is something that they just can't stand.

Mm-hmm.

And so I, I think for, for me, like thinking that through, like that's probably one of the most practical examples of that, right? Like we know people who have started a business because they love and adore X, Y, and Z. And then, you know, after so many years, that pressure is there. The, the need to take care of your people, to make money, to provide for your family. Like all of the pressures that come with that sometimes just become too much and, and we have to figure out how to to have the joy behind it and how to do it because we love it. And, you know, that's something I'm still like processing through. Like, there's a lot of things in life that I really am, am passionate about and love doing, but would I still love them if that was my job? And I, I don't know how to answer that. You know, we've talked about several different things that I would like to do at some point in my life, but I think it's, you know, it's making sure that the passion is still there and remembering why you're doing it, remembering your why, and then keeping the main thing the main thing, right? Like, Your family and your friends, those are the main thing. And we have to keep boundaries and guardrails in place so that certain things in our lives don't take over.

I also noticed that when she, when she was skating, the commentators, just the what they were, what they were saying about her, about how relaxed she was. Because apparently in ice skating, like when you're tense, it's very easy to tell because it's going to be difficult for you to execute.

Mm-hmm.

All of these moves of smoothness and flexibility. And so when you are nervous and rigid and anxious and tense, that actually makes your skating look worse, right? And so, and they even made those comments about other skaters that were falling. They're like, you know, you can tell they're tense, they're worried, they're worked up. And they're like, she just doesn't, not in a bad way, but she looked like she didn't care, you know? Like, and so she was there. And so they mentioned words like that. like joy, and, uh, it looks like she's just having fun. Like, even just think about that phrase, those words, just having fun. And so I thought that was a really powerful illustration of what they were seeing, right? Like, they were just reflecting what, what they were seeing, and they're the experts. You know, I, I see 2 elite-level ice skaters, and I'm like, yep, they're good. Like, I can't, you know, pick out the nuances of them. But they were right. Like, she, she was having a good time. Every time she landed something, she had that big smile, and she was And she got gold. And then when she got it, she just shook her head, yeah. She was like, yeah, it was good. That was it. That was good.

Mm-hmm.

And then you and I went back and watched Ilya's performance at the Worlds because it's the same routine.

Right.

And you were like, this is what it was supposed to look like. And yeah, it was absolutely crushing. The only thing that changed was the environment. The last 14 competitions he was at, he got first place. And so to be at the, in the environment of the Olympics, it was just, it was a different environment, different. They always talk about Olympic pressure, you know? And so, and, and his mind just didn't allow it.

And, and what's actually interesting about that is he is the one earlier in the week that had actually nailed that performance to clinch gold for the US for the team competition. Like he is the one that earned gold for the team. So going into that, I mean, you know, There's no reason he had to not be confident, and I think that's part of why he went in so confident. He had skated already 3 times at this point, same routines, same everything. To clinch.

Like he's the last guy.

Right, he's it. All he has to do is not mess it up. He was far enough ahead, all he had to do was not mess up. Even if he went from a triple or a quad to a triple, it would have been better, but there were doubles and there was falls and there was like— it wasn't anywhere— yeah. You just have to think about like, how do we, how do we prepare also to fail, right? How do we, 'cause we're human, we are going to fail, right? Failure is a guaranteed part of life. So how are we going to fail well? Like John, like you said earlier, John Maxwell's failing forward. Like, I am so excited to watch this journey and now I'm like slightly invested in his, in his journey and his, you could call his a comeback too, right? Like, I want to see where this kid is going to go next and watch and see what he's gonna be able to do.

Yeah.

And to watch him fail forward and the example that he can be to all of us in, in that of bouncing back, coming back, proving to the world that I still got it. I mean, Tom Brady did it after losing, you know, after losing multiple Super Bowls, by the way, not just one time, right? Like he lost multiple Super Bowls. We just have to figure out what that looks like for us personally and practically, and what kind of things are we gonna put into place before we fail. Because once we've failed, that's going to prove what you're really made of. It's not—

Mm-hmm.

Right? It's— what is it that they say? Like, it's not how you fail, it's how you get back up. So for this young man, it's gonna be about how he's going to get back up. And I think he's already started to prove that to us. But as humans, like, we have to plan and put those guardrails in place and have people in our lives who are going to support us and be there for us when we do fail, who are going to love us and, and walk that road with us and help us pick up the pieces. Because sometimes They're really, really big pieces.

Yeah.

And sometimes they're life-altering pieces, and sometimes they're just little— we went, well, that was embarrassing. I messed that up. Okay. Like, there's different kinds of failure in that way. But how do we set ourselves up to handle failure well? And I think for me, that's probably been such a big, like, forward lesson in all of this. And I'm sure that there are several other stories within the Olympics. This one just happens to be one, obviously, Obviously, closer to home because he is American and the expectations and those kinds of things as well. But I love the lessons and the stories that come out of the Olympics. It's all of these other athletes that we don't always necessarily get to watch in these sports that we— you know, I watch speed skating once every 4 years, or the ski— you know, like, all these things. Like, we don't ever watch them except this one time when the whole world does. But the stories that come out of it and what we as humans are capable of, that we don't even know until we watch someone else do that, right? Like, how many of us grew up watching the Olympics and we're like, oh my gosh, I want to be an ice skater, or I want to be a snowboarder, or I want to be— right? Like, they inspire us to rise to more than what we think that we are capable of. And so I think that's the power of a sport, and that's the power of not just viewing it as a lens of like taking in the entertainment, right?

Mm-hmm.

But looking at it from a lens of personal growth, personal development, and, and challenging ourselves to view it It from a different lens.

Sacrifice.

Oh, the sacrifice. Well, that's a whole nother— that could be a whole nother episode with the sacrifice, the discipline that it takes.

Yeah, to be good at something, to be elite at something, you have to say no to a ton of other things. You know, like a lot of champions talk about Max Verstappen in Formula 1, for example. He's talked multiple times about retiring because he's like, yeah, I'm— I've already reached the top. I've reached the top multiple times and it's a lot, it's a huge commitment. And there's other things I wanna do with my life before I'm mega old, you know? So the cost of being a champion is a lot. And another thing I thought about when you talked about the guardrails is not just preparing yourself for failure and for how you respond to it, but I think most of us, unless we commit some time to reframe failure, most of us have a fear of failure.

Yeah.

So fear of failure is something That also can cause you not to even try or to actually lock you up and get you paralyzed because you're so afraid of looking bad for failing. And, you know, I talk about a lot on this channel about being a recovering perfectionist. And when you're a perfectionist, then you have this expectation of yourself that, again, by definition, it is dumb because we all know we're not perfect. And as someone who, expects perfection of themselves, what an unbelievably unattainable goal.

Yeah.

It seems like it will always spell failure. And so, you know, that's why I'm so passionate about reframing that. That fear of failure is something that I think needs to be part of people's guardrail to know that failure is inevitable. And when it does happen, you know, what is the plan? It's not something to be afraid of. And then how do you respond to it afterwards can actually propel you to even better greatness Because the lessons that it holds are gonna be stronger than the lessons that you get just by winning.

Yeah, absolutely.

So if you haven't seen their performances, I highly recommend that you go and watch. Now, I, I recommend you watch 2 of Ilya's. Watch the one, uh, where he crushed it and then watch, uh, watch the one where he, he struggled. Uh, because I, I think that'll give you, uh, a really stark contrast. In one, show you what he's capable of if you're not already familiar, and then you can see what changed. And maybe some different interviews will be eye-opening to see kind of like how he responded. It's a really cool arc to look at. And then watch Alysa's performance as well. It's so joy-filled and so cool to watch. And she has her exhibition skate as well that she crushes just like Ilya does. And there's several exposés that the media does about her comeback. So it's really cool to see those 2 compared at the same Olympics, same sport. And remember, she won the gold medal for women's figure skating for the United States after a 24-year drought. So this was a big deal. If anyone had the justification to be consumed by pressure, I mean, That's crazy. You're the reigning world champion, just like him. And you have the chance to get the gold back to the United States after a 24-year drought. That sounds horrible. Like, skip that Olympics, come back later. You know, like, that's crazy. And I hadn't even considered that until after she won gold and they said something. And I was like, oh my goodness. Like, I wonder how she kept that out of her head. But you know.

Mm-hmm.

That's not why she was doing it. She wasn't like— she had told some media that she's not even there for the medals. And it's like, I guess a cynical person could be like, okay, yeah, right. You know, it's just what she's telling herself or whatever. But hey, proof is in the pudding and the results speak for themselves. So.

Yeah.

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