Optimize Through Grief: Habits, Community, and Hope After Loss | Ft Ashley Negron

Welcome to the Optimizing Beyond podcast. I'm Josh Negron, and this show is all about sharing lessons, ideas, and strategies that sharpen your thinking, strengthen your habits, and push you to grow beyond comfort zones. Let's dive in. All right, this week I am joined again by my lovely wife, and we are discussing a heavier topic. This week we are discussing how to deal with loss. And this is pretty personal to us this week because Eric Dwyer, the young man that was on the show with me just a few episodes ago, lost his wife. And that was a dear friend of ours. And so if you haven't seen that episode, I highly encourage you. That episode was about how to optimize when life isn't optimal. And I'll tell you, he was doing the duties of a hospice nurse at that point in his family. And so I would say those things he was discussing were from the deepest point of knowledge and understanding. So I highly encourage you to catch that episode if you haven't already, because the proof is in the pudding. And now that, that it's over, I think that episode is, is even more strong than it was when we were just speaking in a little bit more vague terms, because he was keeping some of the privacy for his family as he was shooting that episode, right? So What we want to talk about today is some just some key observations from last week from us on what we noticed going through this arguably probably one of the closest losses that we've experienced in our lives that wasn't you know an older individual like a grandparent or even a parent actually so this is this is a peer of ours under forty and that was that was I will say it hits different yeah and so this is such a critical topic because it's not if you experience experience a loss, it's really when. And so most people are not— who is fully prepared for something like that? And I had someone at work this week say that they're not really good with death. And I was like, hang on a second. I don't think, I don't think any of us are. And I don't think that is how it was designed, quite frankly. So we're going to cover some of our observations and then just some things that you can do that we are familiar with. that we want to share coming out of this that, you know, if you're going through this or, or just looking to see what you can do when you do get through this. And then if you have gone through it and you have some tips and tricks, I'd love you to share in the comments just for anyone that, uh, that can glean that wisdom. So, uh, first things, probably my favorite observation from this last week was just the incredible amount of laughter among the tears and the emotions. Ashley, did you notice that as much as I did?

Yeah, the dichotomy of that really was interesting as we came home from the hospital last week, from getting to say, see you later, to Sarah. And we commented about how the room was full of, at times it was, yeah, there was tears and we were mourning together. And then at other times we're laughing and sharing stories. Sarah was so much of a prankster and she had such a good sense of humor that it was, It felt important to share those stories. In fact, actually, her dad like thanked us for all of the crazy stories from when Sarah had been in college and you know in her twenties from that like season of life. He's like, as a parent, you don't get to hear about those things, and and those that season of life kind of tends to be you know when someone's moving on from their parents' house, but they're trying to figure out that relationship again. And so he just loved hearing those those stories and such great times of connection for people that we went to college with, everyone sharing stories and laughing. and mourning together and talking about all of the ways that Sarah had touched our lives.

Yeah, I'll say there— I mean, it probably is some of the characters that we're all friends with that are more— that are very gifted in humor. But I mean, I feel like during the— after the funeral, we were all talking and, like you said, going over memories and things like that. And my face hurt from laughing and smiling so much. And so that's— I'll be honest, that's not something that I expected. And I really do think that if done right, that tension between the two can be very therapeutic.

Yeah.

I don't know if everyone's okay with that. There were a couple of times that we were laughing and carrying on that I wondered if there were some people that weren't, you know, fans of what— of us enjoying ourselves. Right. But that's, that's the difference. This was labeled a celebration of life. Right. And I think that's a, that's a cool distinction.

And I think too, part of the difference is it was from a place of joy. You know, the difference there, I think, too, in the laughter and in those moments, is true, authentic joy. That even in the middle of, arguably, for most of us, it was one of the toughest weeks of our lives, there was this ultimate joy and this sense of gratitude, and so grateful and thankful for the friendship and the relationship that we had with Sarah, and for the way in which that she impacted our life. And I think, you know, anyone that knew her would've known, like, how much she would have enjoyed enjoyed that celebration, how much she would have enjoyed all of those friends being together, all of that family being together, um, and just enjoying a good time together. The only thing we were missing was playing some kind of a game because Sarah loved games. But, you know, I have so many memories to take away from, from this last week.

Yeah, absolutely. And one of the other ones that I enjoyed was watching her stepmom playing with her grandson. And so that was, that was super cool to just see the laughter of a young child that doesn't fully understand what's going on because he's so young. And the grandmother is able to enjoy the kid, especially a young boy who's rambunctious and loud in a hospice house and just play with him in the living room. And that was such a fun thing to watch in a time, honestly, that was super, super heavy and grim. Right. What thoughts did you have when you watched that exchange?

I think it's that reminder that we still have to keep doing life and that, you know, the cycle of life is going to keep going and that death is a part of that. But it's what we do with that that can make such a difference. You know, I will say that while all of us are incredibly sad and because we're going to miss Sarah, We also have so much hope and so much joy and so much love. And so I think that that was one of those things that kind of, while it was such a heavy day, my soul also left refreshed and overflowing in a way that I genuinely didn't expect.

Same. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that was, that was one of my other observations too, in what you said about how much this loss brought so many of us back together. I mean, there were a lot of people I hadn't seen for over 20 years that were brought together because of this incredible individual, Sarah. And that was, that just, that made an impact on me that, you know, that we all reunited, not because of a school reunion or family reunion, but because we were all connected to one person, a very, very influential person. I mean, honestly, over 1,000 people attended combined online and in person. That's crazy town. And so it just shows Just shows that so powerfully. And then the last observation that I want to discuss is the faith piece. Now, obviously, we're we're people of faith, and so that is something that is closely tied to this conversation of loss. Obviously, that we have a hope that's different, that we believe that there's something beyond. And one thing that I will say is I went to. support my friend who was losing his wife. And I left being encouraged by him rather than the other way around, it felt like. Yeah.

Yeah.

And so I just remember just the radiance of what I would, what I would say, the radiance of God on, on, on his face and the joy that he was feeling and the memories that he was spreading. It was something that I totally didn't expect. And from a person who's a, who's a Christian, I would say that it's evident of somebody who has been very faithful in their faith because we believe that God's always there. And so if he's evident, it's not just because he's there, because he's always there. But when, when, when people are able to see him through you, it's because you've been with him.

Yeah.

Right. And I just, I'd never seen anything like it. He did the funeral, which You know, I don't— I know a lot of preachers, and most of them are like, yep, nope, not me. That's, that's crazy. He made it through extremely gracefully. And, and I think I have some beliefs as to why that is. And that's just one of, one of my observations. I couldn't help it that that was— I think that that was supernatural. I don't think that was entirely Eric doing that. I think it was someone working through him in, in his weakness, in his lowest, hardest most suffering-filled moment, there was someone else working through him and with him. And that is just something I'll never forget.

Yeah.

And so moving on to the practical habits and practices that we think can be really helpful if you find yourself in a moment in time like this, then the first thing is around community, right? People are not made to be alone. And so it is important for you to pursue community and pursue people. And I want to highlight 2 different groups here. One, firstly, being the pursuing people who have also lost the same person you have. I think that's important because those people understand that loss. They're feeling it with you and allows you to grieve alongside others. Right. And so how's that? How's that important for you, Ash?

Yeah, um, you know, you, you need people in your life who have walked the same road that you have. 'Cause those roads can be long and hard and dark at times. And so the things that you're experiencing are never something that no one has ever experienced before. Someone has experienced the same kind of loss in the same kind of way that you have. And so find people who have been there, who understand those, all of the emotions, 'cause there's so many of them, and allow them to walk that path with you. You know, one of the ways that you can do that too is there are all kinds of grief share groups all over the place. Sometimes they're through churches, sometimes they're through community centers, whatever that looks like. Find people who can help walk that road with you and dig into that. The want to just, you know, go and hide under the covers is going to be so real. You know, we're, we're not even a week out of this loss. And I even told you this morning, like, all I wanted to do today was nothing. I wanted to just stay under the covers today because it was hard and I was really sad, but I knew that that's not what Sarah would've wanted for me. Um, and so it's, it's finding people who understand those emotions and can help you process them, who, who have walked that same road.

And by that very same token, I think it's also important to seek out people I mean, everyone's lost someone, right? So you're going to gain that from really anyone. But I do think it's also important to distinguish people in your life that haven't lost this individual either, because I think, I think that gives you some distance and some additional perspective when you're trying to heal, right? That way it's not the blind leading the blind. Everyone has, you know, that same grief. I think it's important to also talk to people That while they have lost someone and they can identify, they're not in this particular loss, this particular valley at the same time. Does that make sense?

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

And then the third dimension of community is going to be similar to what Ashley said in the finding groups and things like that. But sometimes the loss is severe enough that finding some professional help can be appropriate, right? So the help of a counselor, a therapist, something like that to help you get through. A lot of times I've known parents who have lost children and those, uh, those can be extremely devastating. And so in the desire to preserve your marriage and move forward together, because people grieve differently, right? And so how do you deal with that in a healthy way and together, but also separately, right? And so someone can help walk you through that. And moving on into some internal processing, what is the main habit that you think is helpful for processing through something like this?

Yeah, well, first and foremost, you know, we've, we've talked about gratitude several different times, but have been so thankful for that habit, especially this last week, in, in the ability to actually use it to reflect a little bit and to look and see all of the moments of the good things that happened in the midst of the hard. Because as I start recounting those days and those things that have happened, like, there's so many good, amazing things that happened in so many ways that, you know, honestly, like, as a believer, I saw the Lord show up over and over and over again in the last week. And so That's an opportunity for me to bookmark those and to kind of mark those days and those experiences and those moments in some stone and to write them down and to have that to look back at later and to reflect on, yeah, with gratitude on the cool things that happened in those days. And then, you know, obviously, again, as someone who is a believer, being anchored and being tied to the Lord and to his word, that That habit has been part of what has also sustained over the last week and allowed this peace that literally I have zero explanation from other, other than him. And so, you know, those for me personally have been the 2 like bedrock anchor habits for me over the last week.

Same. And then for me, another one has been to allow the processing of emotions. And I think that's important to say because first of all, as a man, that is something that is difficult for men to do. And I know there's, you know, stoicism has a place and like men need to be strong and I get that. And I'm not, I'm not advocating for men to be blubbering idiots and those kinds of things. But when things are appropriately heartbreaking, I don't think there's anything wrong with processing those emotions.

Yeah.

And, and that can sometimes involve outwardly processing those. And that's tough because again, I find a lot of language that people use around crying or things like that negative. You know what I mean? Like, just think about it. Think about how people talk about, you're like, oh man, I did really good today. I didn't cry once.

Right.

Right. What do you mean did really good? Or yeah, you know, like I broke down several times. So like that was frustrating and it, yeah, you know? And so a lot of that language is negative around, you know, having a breakdown or crying or whatever. And so I really do think that that is not the healthiest way to look at that, especially if it involves suppressing those emotions and pushing them down and ignoring them and trying to, trying to muscle through like a lot of guys will do. I just don't think that's the best path forward. And so I think, I think people can try to change the narrative and understand that, you know, that's okay. And it's okay not to be okay and to process those emotions in a healthy way.

Yeah.

I told a friend a long time ago that if you don't deal with this now, That it will deal with you later. And so if you bottle it up, congratulations, in 10 years, it's going to look entirely different and it'll probably be 10 times harder to fix or address. And then lastly, Ashley touched on it in processing internally. If you're a person of any type of faith, this is where that faith is going to be tested and could be a huge blessing in your life in certain contexts. So would highly encourage you to find someone. To help you with that, because it can be a very fruitful well of hope for you in a time like this, for sure. And when you experience something like this, it does also kind of give you a different perspective, right? To seize the day, to live differently. And so we listed out some things of where, you know, it kind of changes how you live and kind of gives you a slightly different perspective where things aren't finite, you know, that You know, we're not all going to be here forever. And because of that, we approach things quite differently. So, the first one being show up for those you love, right, Ashley? That's one of the ones you listed. Why did you put that down?

I think it's because that's part of how we build that relationship and that connection with the people that we love is by showing up not just in the good moments, but also, you know, in the hard. We're all going to experience It's so many different things in life, and you need a crew of people around you who will show up for you. But then in the same token, you have to be the one who's also willing to show up for other people, you know, and to be the one who's willing to jump in the car and to drive 3 hours or to, you know, whatever that looks like, to show up and to be there for people. Because you can say a lot of things, but your actions are going to speak so much louder than just your words. And so show up. Be present. You know, usually that's gonna come with some kind of sacrifice on, on your end, but know that in the end, like, that will always be worth it. You will always be thankful that you showed up.

100%. And on the other end of that you mentioned is saying words. And so something that's taught me, like, I think that's something that, that hits me the hardest at times of loss is knowing the reality when it hits me that I'll never be able to have a conversation with someone again. And that truth really makes me want to be intentional with the relationships that I still have here. And to tell people that you love them and how you feel about them. And if you're holding back or it's one of those things of like, well, yeah, obviously you know, so why do I have to say it out loud? Those kinds of things.

Right.

I think is hogwash. And so it really Really kind of makes, makes me want to cast all those things aside and just say, you know, it's kind of weird, you know, sometimes people are like, okay, dude, you're all in your field and stuff. And it's like, no, but I think this is actually the way it should be because what if you don't, what if you don't get another chance to say something? Right. So I, I hear people depending on what valleys they're going through, they tend to be more willing to say those things. And I think that's, I think that's the way it should be.

Yeah, for some reason, like, culture has told us, like, you, you don't say any of those things. Keep all that in. Don't tell people aside from your family or whatever that you love them. But the reality is, like, all of us have so many different relationships and friendships and people that we genuinely care about. Um, even, even maybe if it's not the phrase I love you, it's like, hey dude, I really care about you. Thank you for being part of my life. Like, whatever that looks like, like, speak that. To people. Let them know the amount that you care. Um, and you never know what that may also do to their day beyond you just expressing that, you know, you may be doing it for a selfish reason to say, hey, like, I really appreciate you. I, I need you in my life. But you may never know in turn what that, what that does to that person. And so speak that and speak it often.

Yeah, because we all wanna be loved and appreciated. And, and like you said, I love you is not always the most appropriate thing to say, but even sending, uh, You know, one of our friends and mentors, Glenn Lundy, one of his rules every morning in his Morning 5 is to send an encouraging text or an encouraging message to someone. And so even just something as simple as saying, you know, hey, I'm thinking about you, can totally change someone's day. And so there's no reason to be selfish with something like that. I've heard some people say, you know, horrible things like, well, you know, if I say those things to them, then, you know, whatever. It's hard to put words to it because it's just so messed up. It's free, you know, so encourage people, let them know you're thinking about them, that always with the goal of making them smile is such a powerful thing. We need that more than ever these days.

Yeah.

And so that goes right into if you've got beef with somebody, you know, you need to settle it, right? Because again, I've had, without going into too much detail, I had a family member that had a big rift with another family member, and it caused an extremely long period of time without any— with estrangement and no conversation. And then that other party passed away before any reconciliation could take place. And I can't imagine the regret that takes place in that scenario. So when I've seen people draw hard boundaries with other people that they love and hoping that that would cause that person to change heart, I always I always warn them in those scenarios. I'm like, be careful when you do that because you could find yourself in a position where it's been 20, 30-plus years and you still haven't reconciled. So if you've got any beef with someone and you're able to bridge that gap, I think it is something you should definitely consider. And that goes right into forgiving and releasing as well. And so I want to draw a quick distinction here in the forgiveness arena because I think sometimes people think that forgiving means forgetting, and that may not always be the case. And also, forgiveness is not the same thing as reconciliation. So for those of you who've been hurt by other people, you can forgive them without reconciling that relationship, particularly if it's a toxic one or a dangerous one.

Right.

But I've had 2 people in my life recently that I would say 5 years ago, if I mentioned the premise of forgiving the party that hurt them, that they were extremely hostile to that idea. Um, and, and to find out this last year that they both have forgiven those, those individuals, and one is even cultivating a relationship with that person, and then the other one is considering a way to find that person. That's, that's extremely powerful and inspiring.

Mm-hmm.

And so when appropriate, forgiveness should always be done, but then also considering that's not the same thing as forgetting what happened. Boundaries can be important. There's some caveats in there. And then reconciliation can sometimes happen. Sometimes it needs to be earned, and then sometimes it's off the table. So, but I think forgiveness is something that's important for the person who is harboring the frustration or the bitterness, 'cause that's like drinking poison to kill someone else, right? That doesn't work long-term. And so, you know, in a time like this, you hear someone say, time heals all wounds, right? And I actually strongly disagree with that phrase Because time doesn't heal all wounds. So if I cut myself on a barbed wire fence, right? And I just tell myself, well, time heals all wounds. That's, that's not gonna be the case. 'Cause I'm gonna come down with some real rough stuff, some gangrene. It's gonna get infected and get real nasty, right? So time does heal all wounds if appropriately taken care of, cleaned, and dressed. So the same thing is true for emotional wounds.

Yeah.

Now, this is— this episode isn't about all types of trauma, but specifically loss. But if you're not properly taking care of yourself after a loss, then time won't necessarily heal you. Right. And so it's important to know that time does heal you with the right habits, with the right pursuits, with the right community. Yes, absolutely. But you definitely need to be aware that just the passing of time may not fully restore you if you're not being intentional Right.

You know, grief is one of those things that is going to not be a linear path, right? And it is gonna definitely be up and down. There's gonna be different waves and different strength of those waves, right? Like sometimes it's like just this little bit of lapping at your feet and then other times it's gonna practically knock you off of your feet. And so I think it's important to also give grace to ourselves and to say it's okay to not be okay.

Yeah.

Time is going to start to heal that wound, and it does just take some time, and to be gracious with yourself, but also to remind yourself, you're going to experience grief at the strangest times. The strangest things are going to remind you of someone, and it's going to hit you in a way that you didn't anticipate or expect. I'll never forget Going into Walmart, I think 3 or 4 months after we lost your mom, and seeing a lady that looked so much like your mom. And I had this unexpected moment of just being overwhelmed by grief and the fact that she wasn't with us anymore. Um, you know, and that came out of nowhere. And had to take a moment and grieve in that moment and to know that that was okay, even though it had been— this season had passed since we had lost her. Um, and, and to know, like, it's okay. And to allow those memories to flood into your mind and to allow those moments to come back, um, and to smile about them and to laugh about them, but also to allow yourself to, to be sad and to know that that's okay too. And to know that, like, it's okay to miss them and to, to try to figure out how to process the emotions surrounding that. Um, and to, uh, Allow, allow those emotions to be had. And let grief be the process that it is.

Absolutely. And that will take time. And like you said, it comes in waves and things, smells, sights, things like that can remind you of the person and let yourself feel that moment, take some time if you can. And if you can't carve out some time shortly thereafter to process and And just know that that will pass, right? And then when you have another moment, you know, it doesn't have to be a bad thing of remembering someone you used to love, you know, or someone you did— you do love, right? And so like the old country song, that grief is just love with nowhere left to go, right? And Eric corrected on Facebook and added that, you know, yes, it does have somewhere to go. It needs to go up.

Yeah.

And I love that. So to wrap up, I think that loss doesn't just take, it reveals things, it reorders things, and it invites us to live differently. At least that's what it taught us this week. And so we wanted to share that with you, even though it's a pretty heavy time currently. I thought that was an important message to share. So as always, thanks for listening to the Optimizing Beyond podcast. Remember, growth happens when you take action. So subscribe, share this with a friend, and most importantly, put what you learned into practice. Until next time, remember.

Grow beyond.

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