Optimize Your Travel: Plan Less, Experience More

Welcome to the Optimizing Beyond podcast. I'm Josh Negron, and this show's all about sharing lessons, ideas, and strategies that sharpen your thinking, strengthen your habits, and push you to grow beyond comfort zones. Let's dive in. Welcome back to the show. Today we want to talk about how to start optimizing your travel. If it's anything that we get asked most often, it's about our travel, where we go, how we choose to do it, where we choose to go, and so much more. So I have my better half here, my co-host Ashley, my wife, back on the show to help me discuss this. Because don't get me wrong, she's the one who plans it all. She's the planner. She loves it. So welcome back, Miss Ashley.

Hello! I'm excited. This is definitely one of my favorite topics. Yeah, I'm just excited to share with everybody about how to share a lot of the lessons that we've learned over the years and some of the ways in which we've figured out how to optimize our travel.

Yeah, it wasn't always very smooth. Uh, I think that's why so many people ask us now, because they've seen us have the rough trips and the awesome ones. So that's why we wanted to do this. We'll cover a couple things today. So from planning and the kind of mindset that you may be looking for, because there's different types of trips, whether that's cold weather, hot weather, whether that's a super busy trip or one that is relaxing. The money side. Growing up, I didn't go on any vacations, and I know a lot of people who also didn't. And so, uh, how do you do it without breaking the bank, uh, or putting yourself in a, in a tough spot? Spot. And then logistics, planning— a lot of people aren't into that, so how do they do that? Or, or how do you keep it more spontaneous? You know, where's that line? And especially if two— if a couple has two different sides of that spectrum. And then how do you— what, you know, what if you have different travel styles? And then some different, you know, Q&As about, about travel in general. So let's get into it. So starting out with planning and mindset, this is a big one where, you know, how do you decide between a relaxing trip, so chilling on the beach for a long time, or, or one that's like full of hiking or full of touring an old city like Rome or London. Ashley, tell us, uh, some of how you gauge this, how you balance it. Maybe is— do you have one vacation that's— that does both, or do you really fine-tune it in one? What's— what's your recipe?

Yeah, I feel like so far our recipe has really been like trying to alternate that. Kind of like one year we're gonna go really intense and we're gonna maybe take a longer vacation and we're gonna go somewhere bigger, and then the next year we're gonna go do a little more chill, or we're gonna go Do maybe one that's a little more like maybe we're talking about the beach, or maybe we go get a cabin in the mountains, or, you know, whatever that, that looks like. We kind of try to alternate because we do genuinely enjoy both of them.

Mm-hmm.

I do think the thing that we've learned with experience trips is making sure that you still plan downtime. We'll talk some more about this later, but we took a particular trip that did not plan enough downtime, and by the time we got home, we both felt that. So much. And so I think there's a balance for both of those things, you know. And, and we even have friends and family who one person is very much a beach person and could lay in a chair all the time for a week, and one person is not even a little bit, and that sounds like the most miserable, horrible thing for them. So they kind of have to find that, um, that compromise in there. And there's just so many ways in which that you can do that and actually be able to accomplish both of those goals in the same trip.

No, absolutely. Maybe that's the definition of like Learning how to travel with intention. So from the very beginning, trying to identify what's the purpose of this trip, right? So some are going to be, hey, work's been crazy. So let's schedule a vacation or a trip where we really do nothing. And you can do that in a, like you said, a cabin in the woods, on the beach, and a lot of other places where the, maybe the hotel and the accommodations are so nice that you don't really want to go anywhere. You want to enjoy that area, that scenery, that maybe those accommodations, whereas in other locations you're like, I don't care what the hotel's like because I'm only here to sleep and then I'll be hiking, walking through the city, touring museums, whatever. So we think it's helpful to identify what is the purpose of your trip first so that you can plan around it and have it make sense. And that doesn't mean that you can't plan downtime like we talked about, but it's important to know what the focus of that individual trip is, obviously. Yeah.

Absolutely. The other thing that you have to decide too is, you know, are you the kind of person that needs to have a complete and full itinerary, or are you more the person who like is like, we're going to this city and then we're gonna just wing it and figure it out, right? I tend to be a little more structured in that like I have a plan and I have a spreadsheet going. And if you can't see Josh right now, he's shaking his head yes because he's lived this. But I'm also learning that like on some level that Can actually produce and induce a decent amount of anxiety in me because if the plan— if it doesn't go to plan, then what do we do, right? And I have a harder time pivoting because it's so planned out. So after, um, you know, a trip where that happened and it kind of— everything towards the end kind of just fell apart, um, I've kind of figured out how to find the best of both worlds going, okay, this is a real like Skeleton of a structure of what we're gonna do today. Or like, I'm only saying we're doing this one thing and then we can pivot. We can figure out what's going on around it. I have ideas, I've researched, I know, but it's like, we're gonna just kind of go with the flow. Also, like, it allows you as you're really tired to just kind of be right. Like, take the time to sleep in or, oh, we're gonna go to dinner early tonight, or we're gonna skip this thing. 'Cause you know what? We both really don't wanna care. We don't wanna walk to wherever, whatever. Right? So I think that's one of the things that we've kind of figured out is having done the overly planned thing, I can't be fully spontaneous. It's really not in my nature. It stresses me out more than having to figure out how to deviate from a plan, but finding a decent middle ground. And so you got— you just have to figure that out, um, you know. And for us, it's like I'm really good at the initial planning, and then once we get there, it's like I tell you what we want to do and where we want to go, and you help me execute how to get there. That way I don't have to think about the transportation. I don't have to figure out whatever. It's like, okay, I'm like, hey, we're going from here to here. And you're like, got it, we're gonna figure out how to get there, right? So we each kind of like play a different role in that trip.

Yeah, it's, it's true. And, you know, we keep referencing this trip that we made. We can talk about that a little bit because that trip was so scheduled out. For me, it didn't bother me that I've heard some people say like, well, and you go on a vacation and the itinerary is all planned out, that that's And while I get what that's saying, initially it didn't bother me because we were gonna, we're gonna do so many things. I think where, when you described when it started falling apart, was when it got tough, because then you have to think of contingency plans. And if everything is, is so planned out, then if you miss one train, then you miss this appointment, which then shifts the whole day, and then it's all gone.

Mm-hmm.

And so there's, you're almost, it's tough to pivot because you're trying to find ways to rescue the day. the original plan. And you don't always know when to like let it die and then find something else. And so, yeah, there's this, there's this real tension of keeping it a little bit light and breezy so that it's flexible. Because say you don't miss the train, say you execute everything perfectly, but there's a breakdown, you know, like something goes on in the city, the metro breaks down, something happens that's unexpected, then you have to pivot anyway. So, uh, for us, we missed the train and had some other issues, but it could be something completely outside of your control. And then again, you're in the same spot. So if you have everything super, super scheduled, it gets, it gets super tough. And I find that a lot of couples have 2 people that are, I mean, opposites in a lot of ways like we are. And so you're gonna have somebody that is more of the planner and then someone who's more like, yeah, you know, whatever happens, wherever you want to go, that's cool. Like, I trust you. It's awesome. And so that's our, that's our dynamic. And, and I love planning and strategizing and logistics. But on the Traveling front, you enjoy it way more than I do as far as like structuring everything, and you're also better at it than me. So I'm like, yeah, yeah, whatever. Like wherever we're gonna go, it's all good. It's actually more relaxing for me because I don't have to worry about that part. And then when we're there, like you said, then then my job's like, ooh, okay. Now how can I figure out how to get there if I'm driving? That's obviously another component. You know, driving in a foreign country can be interesting at times. I've always been on the right side of the road, so we'll see if if we go somewhere where it's on the other. So yeah, I think that's how we've done it, and I've I've really. I've really come to enjoy realizing to, to pull it back a little bit so it's not too much, so that we both can use our strengths rather than it all being on you. Because I think that trip that we talked about, one of the aspects for you that was stressful is because you knew all the details and there were so many.

Yeah.

Then I didn't know enough information to help you pivot because I didn't know, and I didn't even know like all the details of what was next, so I couldn't help you decide whether to save it or go to a new plan and all that. So now it's way, way more of a simple outline. And then we can, we can go from there. So shifting gears here on the money side, right? So I remember our first vacation that we took, I believe it was to Colorado. We spent a year saving, we were going to drive all the way from Missouri to Colorado, which involves driving through Kansas. It's a tough drive, guys. So much flat earth. But I remember saving for an entire 12 months for that trip. And it felt so good to finally take it. But that was a tough thing. I would like to call myself conservative. Back then, I was probably cheap. And so it was like, well, we could do so we could do something else with this. And there's that guilt that you feel sometimes when you have a weird relationship with money. And so for me, that was tough to do that. But then also was something like I said, growing up, never did a vacation. Never did a trip like that. And so that was a tough, tough thing early on. So how did you manage deciding where to go, how to budget it, what makes sense, too big, too small?

Yeah, I think for that, you know, you think back about that trip and we did like, we, we saved our tax return, we saved our Christmas money, we put money away every single month trying to budget and, and pay for that. And, you know, for me it was obviously like That was 10, 12 years ago. So the world of the internet has definitely changed a lot since then. But we, I rented a cabin in the mountains and then I had planned out our food. And so we, um, you know, went to the grocery store and we bought our groceries and we did a lot of our cooking at the cabin to save money. We had a couple of different planned nice meals out, you know, and, um, and did that kind of thing and did a few experience kinds of things. But then we just spent time hanging out and being in the mountains of Colorado. You know, it snowed like 2 feet while we were there. And so we got snowed in and, you know, there's lots of memories associated with that. And I think one of the biggest things I've learned about travel is I would far rather put money away every single month to save for a trip and go make a memory together. You know, I couldn't tell you what we bought each other for Christmas 12 years ago, but I have very distinct memories of that trip and our time together.

Mm-hmm.

When we stopped and saw friends along the way. And we had friends that lived in Colorado that we met up with, and going up and riding the train up to Pikes Peak, and it's snowing, and, you know, a blizzard is starting. And so there's just so many memories that we have. And I think that that's one of the biggest things about planning travel is the memories that you make rather than the stuff. And so for us, travel has become a really important thing for us and something that we value in that time that we value together. And so we've kind of shifted a little more for us of like, we're not really going to buy each other like big presents, we're going to save and go on a trip. And we put money aside in our budget every single month to save for a trip. We also— when we can, we'll talk more about this maybe in some other episodes— but we also use a lot of rewards miles, use a lot of points for things, um, to help offset those costs. Um, and we don't always just do— some years we don't do crazy big trips. We do a lot of smaller things, you know, just kind of depending on what stage of life But, um, there's so many memories to be made just in, in traveling. And so, yeah, it's, for us, it's, it's kind of almost become like this core component of, of our lives and of our marriage and figuring out how to make that a priority because it is to both of us.

Yeah. And that trip to Colorado, it also makes me think of when we went to Italy for the first time. And that for, for a lot of people, they're like, there's no way. But for us, we, we always wanted to go. It's something we wanted to do and not something that would have made sense on paper. But my brother was stationed in Italy in the Air Force, and he was there for 8 years. And we always talked about going, but again, weren't serious about it. And then finally, he's, he's coming up on his time of being there being over. And he said, hey, if you guys want to come, you guys have a year left. And we're like, well, okay. And so, and for that trip, like you said, cooking saved us money on the Colorado trip. Well, if you get to— if you have connections with people around the nation, around the world, where you stay is a huge part of that expense. So if you can stay with someone, such a massive savings there. And so I remember that trip being like, okay, we can wrap our heads around this. All we have to take care of is the flights and then we have accommodations. He's gonna go with us everywhere, so he's gonna drive. So the expense was really the food and the flights. And that was like, okay, we can kind of wrap our heads around this. We can do this. And so we employed the same tactic, saving for the year and then making that trip. And I remember that being so, again, another rewarding feeling Of doing that. And then also, I wanna highlight the ability to, to take advantage of small trips. Like you said, it doesn't have to always be a huge trip to somewhere exotic or somewhere far away. That in the same way for marriage, I think that date nights are important on a regular basis, whether that be weekly, biweekly. I definitely don't think it should be less than once a month, that's for sure. But if you're doing that on a regular basis, then you can kind of scale up. Like a weekend away somewhere close, maybe an hour away. We have, you know, Branson, Missouri, really close, Northwest Arkansas that has nice cabins and things like that. So it doesn't always have to be, you know, like a destination place. And so a lot of times when you're looking to especially have those like break periods where you have that relaxing time when, you know, maybe work's been crazy, a weekend away can do so much. Sometimes you can both take a 3-day weekend, you know, put in for some PTO or a day of vacation and just take a, you know, Friday through Sunday or Saturday through Monday. That can be, again, another huge, huge thing. So definitely don't always have to start with the pressure of like, well, how do we go to Bora Bora? You know, you don't have to do that.

Yeah.

So starting small and building that habit and that appreciation for, for saving up for that, and then rewarding yourself and feeling that can be Massive. And then shifting to some logistics of travel, I know every time that I book a flight, I have American Airlines and everyone else asking me, are you sure you don't want to protect your flight? Are you sure you don't want travel insurance? Ashley, what's your philosophy on travel insurance?

So I've done it a variety of different ways. There's lots of— you can buy travel insurance, like you said, when you go to book your flights, you can add that on. It's usually pretty affordable, but it's obviously only for your flight. Depending on if you have a travel credit card. Usually if you're using that credit card to book your flights or to book your accommodations, those kinds of things, there is some travel insurance included with most travel credit cards. And then there's all kinds of third-party companies that you can use to purchase travel insurance. You know, if we are leaving the country, I go ahead and buy the travel insurance because the odds are that trip is more expensive I've spent or I've saved and planned this one out a lot more. And so if logistics go wrong, it's gonna have a bigger impact, especially on the way there. Um, on, on the way home doesn't tend to bother me as much, but on the way there, like, if I'm gonna miss— we have some friends that went to Europe last year around Christmas time and got caught in a storm and missed the whole, like, first 2 days of their trip. So, you know, those are the kinds of things where you want You want that protection, you want that help, or at least some financial assistance in getting some money back, especially if you're having to, you know, if you miss hotels because they're not going to refund you because you're too close to your time, you know. So, um, it just kind of depends on what it is that you're doing. Um, you know, we took a pretty big cruise a couple summers ago, and I went ahead and purchased the travel insurance through the cruise line. Now, that was only good if something happened to have a credit with the cruise line. So you just have to like read the fine print and figure out what it is that's going to be good for you. Um, you know, another thing that we've experimented with quite a bit is carry-on packing versus like bigger suitcase packing. Um, you know, when we did this last trip to Europe, we both packed in a carry-on and a backpack for, for 10 days. And I've never been so glad that I was not lugging giant suitcases through all of these train terminals All over the cobblestone streets, um, through all of these old cities. Like, I was so glad that we had packed lightly.

Now let's be honest too, we are serial overpackers, so this was a huge, huge victory for us, packing in carry-ons. Oh my gosh.

And we even like test did it when we went to— on another big trip, um, we went to a tropical island like right the, you know, like 6 months before we went to Europe. And so So, you know, we tested it out even for that. However, I will tell you, when we went to Alaska this last time, there was no carry-on packing happening, right? So it just depends on what the trip is, what your purpose is, how much you're moving. I also think, you know, if you're trying to hit lots of different cities or you're going to be moving a lot, pack as light as possible. Um, you know, capsule wardrobe it, pack super light, figure out how to do— um, there's so many YouTube videos on how to carry-on pack for a 7-10 day trip, whatever that, that looks like. Buy packing cubes, buy a really good lifetime warrantied suitcase, do the things, figure that out, whatever's going to be good for you. And yeah, you're right, we are serial overpackers, but you have to just like whittle that down and figure it out. And how do I, how do I do those things? And there's lots of ways to learn how to do that. But yeah, that's been one of the biggest things for us is to kind of, depending on the trip, it really does depend on the trip, How much you're moving, where you're going, what that looks like, you know. And, and then I think we kind of hit on this a little bit earlier too, like, don't overplan it. I've done that. And in fact, this vacation that we're getting ready to take at the end of May, like, scaled it back because I knew we're going to get tired. Also, just the reality of life, as we've gotten older, it is far harder to go from sunup to sundown all day long and not be exhausted. Let's just be real. So, you know, and we're fit, healthy people. It's just, you, it's just different, right? So we do have to build in more buffer time and we do have to go, you know what, we're gonna do nothing today. And I'm gonna put a day in the middle of the trip and maybe one towards the end that's just chill. Or I literally am gonna say, we're doing this one thing today and maybe it's free, maybe it includes a ticket, whatever. We're gonna go do the one thing and then we're gonna pivot and decide what it is that we're gonna go do. And so So those kinds of things have really been some logistical things that have made travel just so much easier for us.

I agree. I agree. And you have done things like where you'll have a busy day and then a more relaxed day, then a busy day, relaxed day. And so you kind of have, and sometimes you'll pair some, a string of busy days together, but there's this, there's that relief day. I do think the buffer days are super, super nice. I remember, and I think that, I think that's the juxtaposition of both of our Italy trips. The first one we went, we had no idea what we were doing. We visited my brother who had been there 7 years. And so he showed us everywhere. His pace is really quick. And so we're like, okay. And, uh, but we weren't responsible for logistics, planning, nothing. He has like, he's like, hey, this is what we're gonna do. And we're like, okay. And so we only spent one, one part of the trip by ourselves in Rome and it was just one city. So it felt easier. It was definitely go, go, go that entire trip.

Yeah.

But when we did our second one, it was just you and I. We were going all around Italy. So it's like every day to 2 days, you're, you're not even unpacking the suitcase because it literally tomorrow we're leaving, right? And so that got, that got really exhausting really fast. And I remember there were a couple days in Bologna, Italy, where we did pretty much nothing. And it was my favorite part of the trip.

Really?

Which sounds crazy, uh, because you're like, well, but you, you saw all this stuff. We did, we saw all the stuff, but I remember more vividly in my memories chilling in that hotel room, listening to the cathedral choir coming into the open window, and then just hanging out in the square, eating lunch, not having to go anywhere, not packing up, unpacking the suitcase for a couple days. It was so nice. And it's crazy that that's the number one thing I remember.

Yeah.

from that crazy trip. That was just nuts and full of memories. And so yeah, buffer days are so important. And I think it's tough because you feel that guilt. You're like, man, I can't sleep in. I'm in a foreign country. I paid money to get here. I gotta maximize it. I gotta go see more stuff. There's another museum that I want to go see. And that— yeah, man, I get it. But you can also just be present in a city you're not familiar with, even just hanging out in the town square in a cafe drinking a coffee. And just enjoying the scenery and the city. It's super special. I remember eating at the cafe on the square, both of them actually, one, one on one end and one on the other end for lunch. It was, it was just super nice. So good question here, transitioning to what was your best trip together and why did it work?

Man, you know, as we were talking about these questions, it's so many different things have come Um, into my mind because we, we genuinely have been so fortunate to take some incredible trips, you know, over the last— I think, um, I think our very first, you know, like I said, our very first trip was that about 12 years ago. And we've, we've taken some incredible trips, and we've done them by ourselves, we've gone with friends, um, you know, we've, we've done a variety of, of different things with that. But honestly, like, It's it's so weird because it's a toss-up for me between some of the trips that we've taken to Aruba and then going to Italy. And honestly, like probably it's Italy the first time that we went, right? Like Italy was always my big bucket list trip. Like that's the one place I had no other bucket list trips. Italy was it. Like I wanted to go see. I wanted to go see the Colosseum. I wanted to go to. Venice and ride in a gondola, and I wanted, you know, the food, all the things. Like, that was, that was my trip. That was the thing. And so, you know, to get to go do that— and honestly, genuinely, that is the trip that like caught the travel bug for us. That was the trip that made us go, we can actually figure out how to do this financially and how to make this work. Um, you know, that, that is the trip that solidified for us that travel is incredible and it is so fun, and that it became a priority for us after, after that trip. And so yeah, that's, that's probably my favorite, my favorite one.

Yeah, it is a tough— there's so many moments that are special moments in a lot of the trips. I think that initial Colorado trip where it snowed and snowed us in unexpectedly, we didn't have to go anywhere for 2 or 3 days. It was like multiple feet of snow, you know, in the hot tub while it was snowing. That was super special. The trips to Italy obviously are amazing. Aruba's awesome. Highly recommend. I I think Alaska, the Alaskan cruise is fresh on my mind because the trip before that was the crazy Italy one that we had no— that went sideways, was super full and super tough that we talked about. And then, but in Alaska, it was our first big cruise. And for the longest time we weren't cruise people. We're like, I don't get it. Why the ship? Like you're stuck on the boat, you know, and only going to where they go to port. You know, be in control, go where you want. And one thing that's super, super unexpectedly interesting, especially after a chaotic trip of living outta your suitcase for 10 days, is on a cruise, you unpack once, then you let them take you places. You get off if you want, you don't have to. And then you get to see whatever you wanna see. If you're done, if you're tired, cool, go back to the boat. You can eat, you can sleep, whatever. Even like going to a concert on the ship, Normally when you go to a concert, it's probably not in your hometown unless you're fortunate enough to live in a huge city. So then you go to the concert, you gotta mess with parking, you go there, it doesn't start till whenever, and then you get done because it lasts forever, super late at night. So what do you gotta do? You're either staying at a hotel if you can get through the traffic, or you're driving home. You're gonna get home at like midnight, 1, 2, 3. Same thing with a, like an NFL game or something. So on a cruise, you go to the show, you go to the comedy show, And then when it's done, you have a very short walk to your bed and you go to sleep. I was like, okay, I get it. I get why people do this. And so Alaska was— we packed a lot in, but it was also really peaceful in certain areas because it's like, hey, we're going to be at sea for a day and a half. So yeah, you can do stuff on the boat. You don't have to. It's not scheduled. It's going to happen whether you want to go or not. And then you just pick what restaurants and that's all in like included. So So yeah, that one's probably freshest on my mind because of the difference between the Italy trip and the cruise. It was definitely legit. Ashley, is there any other mistakes that we haven't talked about that you would love to warn people about?

You know, that's hard because it's like one of the lessons I think I'm learning is the over-researching component. I will watch every YouTube video available. I will read all the things. I will utilize every resource at my disposal, and I go into a trip being so prepared. The problem that I'm learning, um, is that as a byproduct, it actually ends up creating this over-anxiety in me when we actually get there, because it's like I have too much knowledge. I don't know how to regurgitate all the things that I've learned to you? What's relevant? What do you care about? Does it even matter? Like, and trying to like figure out how to do that. And then it's like, well, we could do this and we could do that. It's— I know too much. Like, I'm learning there's a, there's a balance in there somewhere. And, and so I'm trying to find that, you know.

Yes.

This, this vacation that we're getting ready to take, we're taking it with some friends. And so I'm trying to also not like overdo my weird nerdy knowledge, right? Like that— I become a really big nerd when we go to take a trip, right? I could tell you All the things. So I'm trying to find that balance. And, um, I actually saw a reel that talked— and we've talked through this and it makes sense— what actually happens when you have spent so long planning and processing and thinking and researching, it actually becomes more like executing a plan rather than enjoying an experience.

Right, right.

And so I think that for me is the biggest lesson that I'm actually currently in the middle of learning.

Are you ever disappointed?

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That can happen with anything, right? Like, you know, you think about like prom as a kid. Like, the best part of prom was the picking out the dress and the getting ready and the thought of prom. Prom itself is not usually that great, right? So I don't know, I think that's the— yeah, that's the lesson I'm currently learning, is figuring out how to— how do I optimize my research? When is enough enough? And then how do I take a step back And enjoy the moment and being present rather than trying to execute this plan I've put together.

Yeah. I, I think also, I think of how, cuz my experience is, is quite a bit different cuz I typically don't know anything and my experience is much more novel. And we know that with, in neuroscience that the brain chases novelty, things that are new. And so that's why it's exciting when you experience something new for the first time. Like it's a, it's, there's nervous energy, but you're also So you, you're excited about the novelty. And so when I go to a new city, I may know what I want to go see, but I think there's a huge benefit to not knowing too much about it because then it's almost like— while you were talking, it made me think of when someone reads the book before watching the movie. When has anyone ever been not disappointed in that scenario?

Very rarely.

Right. So, you know, you, you know everything, you have all this expectation, and then you see it and you're like, huh. Oh, well, that's different than I thought, right? And so that's why I asked if you, if you were ever disappointed. For me, I'm rarely disappointed because I know like, oh, we're gonna see the Colosseum. Cool. I haven't looked at a bunch of pictures and I don't want to, like, I don't want to, I don't want to see too much because I'm going there. Like, why would I want to, like, you know what I mean? So that's how I've kind of approached it just from a natural perspective. And I think that helps, helps keep it novel. So for some of you, I think this is where AI can be in, in a way probably more helpful because in the old days you would just watch a ton of YouTube videos or read a ton of blogs and there's a bunch of information. You can't always select or curate what you're seeing or reading, right? But with AI, you can, you can really corral it in saying, hey, what are the top 5 things that I should consider when I'm in Rome? And then it'll list them out. And then you're like, cool. And you can keep it as surface level as you want. And then you're like, okay, cool. If I'm going to do these 3, are there any tips or tricks that I need to know? Because you've picked up a ton of stuff like that where you're like, hey, I learned on this video that if we buy this pass, then it lets us go on any transportation in Rome for the whole time we're here. And you're like, oh, well, that's cool. I mean, you want to know those kinds of things, right?

Mm-hmm.

That's not going to take away from the trip. That's a very helpful logistical tip. It doesn't ruin the experience. or disappoint you in any way. Like, those are helpful things.

Right.

So using things like that to kind of curate the information flow is what makes me think of that. And I've seen you use AI in that way recently. You're like, hey, help me plan this trip. And it gives you these parameters and you're kind of more in the driver's seat of what you get to learn and the information that comes your way. Because in a certain respect, I want you to also have that wonder, excitement, first time seeing it situation that, you know, that I get to experience, uh, a lot of times. So, and then the last question is, what is a trip that changed you? What makes you think of that?

I know we keep referencing this particular trip, but genuinely, like, the trip that we took to Italy just a few years ago really changed, first of all, the way that I plan our travel based upon the lessons that we learned. Um, it made us learn, like, genuinely, we had to learn how to communicate better in In a foreign country, trying to navigate transportation in a foreign country. We missed a train. Okay, then like you said, the dominoes fell for that day, right? Or one of the days I got mixed up and we had changed our mind on what we were doing when, and I booked a ticket for the wrong day. Now fortunately, we could get that figured out. We had a ticket that got canceled on us that we had to then pivot and figure out, right? I— it started pouring down rain walking on the way to this other ticket for another museum. It was one of those moments of like, had we not been doing the things and already figuring out little ways to optimize our mindset, I could have seen how that trip could have gone even worse than it did, right?

Hmm.

We had to learn to— one of the things we just did was we're walking through Rome and it is pouring down rain and we are soaking wet, and you just have to laugh. Like, you just have to find the joy in those moments. And so I think it changed me for a myriad of reasons, but one of the things that it also did was it showed me all of the things that I had been doing, the mental work that I had been doing, the work that we had been putting in on our marriage. I saw those things pay off in front of me. And I thought about like, man, old Ashley would've responded to the— all of the compoundingness of all of these things in a very different way.

Yeah.

way than what she did, right? I even ended up super sick, like, right before we were coming home. And so just all of the things that— so many things. But had— yeah, had we not been doing the work and optimizing so many things in our lives, it could have been so much different. And so, you know, that, that trip showed me the power of mindset and the power of choosing joy and the power of the habit of gratitude And how, um, you know, communication in the midst of stress and frustration, all of those things really culminated in those 10 days, you know, together. And so that is probably for me one of our largest standout trips that, that probably changed me the most in that way. Um, and then in a completely different way, we got to go hike Zion National Park. for not quite a week, for about 3 to 4 days, and just being in the majesty of Zion and getting to be in creation and, you know, sunrise hikes and being out and looking at the stars and all of the things that came with that. Yeah, that changed me, but in a very different way.

Yeah, that one was special. Yeah, Angels Landing, being up there, that's— it's a totally different scale that you don't fully think about. I also think Antelope Canyon on the border of Arizona and Utah, that was like a whole nother universe. It was like a Mac screensaver, you know, like it was so cool. So yeah, those, those two definitely, definitely different. We've never done that before. So yeah, as you can see, we both love travel and we love talking about it. But we've run out of time today. So in future episodes, we're going to talk about loyalty programs, travel reward cards, how to figure out what your bucket lists are and how important it is to make those, the use of travel blogs, channels, even AI like I just talked about. And then also these alert services that you can get messages and alerts for cheap flights or other things that you can do that kind of led to one of our most interesting trips. So subscribe so you don't miss it. Thanks for listening to the Optimizing Beyond podcast. Remember, growth happens when you take action. So subscribe, share this with a friend, and most importantly, put what you learned into practice, because as we know, daily anything changes everything.