Optimizing Personalities: Stop Using Labels and Start Growing | Ft Ashley Negron

Welcome to the Optimizing Beyond podcast. I'm Josh Negron, and this show's all about sharing lessons, ideas, and strategies that sharpen your thinking, strengthen your habits, and push you to grow beyond comfort zones. Let's dive in. Think about the last time you were in a high-pressure situation with someone you deeply respect. But in that moment, it felt like you were speaking 2 entirely different languages. Maybe you were trying to solve a problem with logic while they were reacting with emotion. Maybe you're ready to fire, aim, ready while they were still analyzing the data or vice versa. The hard truth is we often judge other people's weaknesses based on our own natural strengths or even weaknesses we've worked on and shored up. Sometimes we can even use personality tests to pigeonhole them instead of building a bridge to connect with them. In my own life, being an INFJ, only 1% of the population, I've spent years feeling misunderstood, having to clarify, over-explain, because I hear, what do you mean, a lot. But I've learned that once you understand the core motivator of a person across from you, whether it's your spouse, child, friend, or employee, everything changes if you start with you. Today, I'm joined again by my better half, Ashley, to talk about how to stop using personality as a crutch or even a weapon And actually start using it as a tool for an intentional path of growth in your marriage, relationships, and your workplace. Let's get started. Ashley, welcome back to the show today.

Hi, I'm excited. This is one of my favorite topics and something I love to just share about, um, and something that has really definitely helped us in so many of those areas in life that you mentioned.

Yeah, absolutely. So how do you find that personality tests have Like you said, have helped you understand people better? Yeah.

So I really enjoy the Color Code personality test because it goes back to the core of what motivates you. And that really is such a driving factor for all of us. At the core of who we are, what motivates us. And so that's been really helpful for me to understand myself and to help point out things that I probably know are weaknesses, but am unwilling to admit to myself that they are weaknesses. or don't want to acknowledge that there are weaknesses, especially in front of others. And so they've just been a really great tool to say, oh, awesome, this is, this is something that I bring to the table that is incredible. And then this is a limitation that I probably need to spend some time thinking about how to improve this area of my life, because if not, this is gonna continue to be a hindrance to me in my marriage, in other relationships, maybe at work. Um, it, it could come up in all different ways. And so they're just So helpful, um, to move forward. And then when I can understand what is the core motivator and driving factor of other people, I might respond differently as I'm growing and maturing to the way in which that they maybe need a situation approached, or the way in which that they do conflict, or knowing that like, oh, this personality type really hates conflict, and so they're gonna avoid it at all possible costs. And so how do I help bridge that gap to do healthy conflict?

So you use it like finding a commonality or common language for somebody, uh, instead of taking certain things personally that, you know, might be just kind of default for their personalities.

Correct. Correct. And probably a large chunk of that is because I am the person that often gets misunderstood or that can come in really hot or those kinds of things. And so have a better understanding of like, hey, this is gonna be the way that I maybe approach this situation or can learn to resolve things maybe better and faster because we now have this common language together.

Yeah, I know. I totally agree. And I see, you know, we launched with 2 things: people using personality assessments as a crutch and then also as a weapon. Let's start with using it as a crutch. You can often hear the, the phrases like, well, this is just who I am, and I just tell it how it is, and yeah, truth hurts, you know, and those kinds of things. Now walk us a little bit through why those extreme phrases are obviously crutches, but how do personality assessments, uh, kind of hold some people back? Because that's, they're just like, well, I don't have an excuse to change. This is who I am. And this gives me excuse to be that way.

Right. So I really think that, um, currently like culture is telling us, be who you want to be, be your best self, be all these things. But at On the opposite side of that, I think, is that excuse to not grow through something, to not put in the work to say, oh, I'm gonna choose to be different. I'm gonna choose to break the mold. I'm gonna choose to break the cycle. And so it, it actually is just an excuse to just stay stuck and to stay where we are and to stay in those bad habits and patterns.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and to not optimize our lives for the things that would be better. And so How do we grow through that? And I think if you correctly look at a personality assessment, it's going to be an opportunity for you to say, okay, this is the biggest area in my life I see that could use some improvement, and I'm gonna take one little step, right? I'm gonna optimize in the right direction, and one little step to get a harness on this part of my personality. Every single one of us has strengths and limitations that come with our personality. That's just who we were created to be. And those aren't bad things, They're not inherently like bad or evil, but you have to be the one in control of that and you have to be the one who responds well. And so I think it's actually like culture bucking if we will decide, hey, I'm gonna not just stay stuck in this bad habit and this bad pattern because it's who I am and it's just the way that things are. And so I actually think that, that when we push back against that, people around us see that and they start to emulate those things too, and they feel like they don't to stay stuck. And so not only does it help us, but it helps our relationships and it helps others around us as well.

Yeah, I agree. And also, what came to mind as you were pointing that out is very clearly there are strengths and limitations to each personality type. Even 2 people that are the same personality type might have different strengths inside of that type, as well as different limitations. Another thing that's an interesting phenomenon is that sometimes your greatest strength can also be a limitation, just depending on how you wield it. You know, we talked about last time you and I were together, what wolf you're choosing to feed, right?

Yep.

So on the color code specifically, I'll use myself as an example. I'm a blue purist on the color code, which means I'm motivated by intimacy, right? And the stereotypical bad, unhealthy blue is a highly manipulative person. Like, imagine, like, most common, it's associated with the, the matriarch who's like, gloomy and like always making, like always putting you on a guilt trip, you know?

Mm-hmm.

And, and as they're entering later stages in life and maybe in the grandma stage, like, oh, you don't come and visit me anymore and you just, I wish you just had time for me. And those kinds of like high manipulative control kind of posturing, right? But then at the very same token, a healthy blue can use influence to, to inspire people and motivate them. And so I think the, the blues are very capable of connection and that connection can be used for good reasons and they can also be used for bad. How do you see that, uh, as a red?

Yeah. So as a red, my core motivator is power. And so, um, I like to be in control. I like to be in charge. I like to get things done. So as a good side of that is like taking charge of a team and pushing it forward and getting everybody moving in the same direction and getting things done, seeing things to the finish line. Reds are, are very capable of so much when it's harnessed well. But on the flip side of that, in my younger years, we used to laugh about me being a freight train. Like, I would do whatever it took to get things done, no matter the cost and who I might have run over in the process or who I had to push to get Done, you know, or push something to get done the way that I, I wanted it to be done. And so growth and maturity in that is learning to go, okay, you don't have to be in control every time. You can submit your ideas, put them on the table, and then sometimes it's okay for you to step back and to let other people lead and to take that, that underneath you position. And so both, both things can be so good, but an unhealthy version of that can be so destructive also.

Mm-hmm.

And oftentimes leads to you being very lonely. When you don't— when you run people over or you overly manipulate people, you, you can end up actually in this, um, being, being lonely and being alone. And so you have to find and figure out ways to, um, harness what could be the limit— limiting factor in that so that that doesn't happen for you.

Absolutely. And we talked about the, uh, the second thing that you can do with personality assessments and use them as a weapon, you know, a weapon of assumption, or what we often hear about pigeonholing people. What are some ways that you can, uh, not jump to conclusions about other people when you're like, oh, uh, they're a Red, so they must, they must be on a power trip right now, you know, and you just make these—

Right.

It's so easy to slip into that. How do you keep that from happening and meet someone, like you said, this is about building bridges. How do we keep from using it as a weapon of assumption, uh, or, you know, pigeonholing someone, uh, when they're really not where you think they are?

Right. So I think a chunk of that is gonna be back to some of the other things that we've talked about previously of assuming positive intent and looking at the heart behind whatever that situation is going to be. You, you have to approach a personality assessment from a manner of this is a helpful tool, but it's not a, um, it's not an exact roadmap, right? There's so many different ways that each personality type can present themselves. You can't look at one chart or you can't look at a certain graph or an outline of, and just go, yep, this is exactly who this person is. And yep, this is exactly how they're going to react. Cuz that roadmap is going to get you lost.

Mm-hmm.

So don't think about things as the definitive black and white. Every personality is going to be a scale of some kind in no matter You know, everybody kind of fits in, yes, these general boxes of what kind of personality that they have, but inside each box is so many different unique ways that those things are combined. And everybody has other pieces of other personalities. And so everybody's just a unique different puzzle. And so one chart, one graph, one outline is not going to get you to that final destination or that final assumption that you may have. about someone. So use them. They're incredibly powerful. They have been a great common language for us in our marriage, in our relationships at work, in so many different ways. But don't think that it is a one-size-fits-all roadmap, or you're gonna get very, very lost.

Yeah, I agree. And one way you can get lost is judging someone else's weaknesses or limitations is a word we like to use instead. Based on your own natural strengths. That's a really, that's a really crummy thing to do, to be honest with you, right?

Yep.

And even imagine someone, an easy analogy that I think is closely parallel to that is fitness is the easiest one. So let's say you used to be out of shape, you used to not value fitness whatsoever, and you lived that way for a really long time. You got a handle on it. And, uh, and now you're in shape, you've been doing it for several years. You've got a great routine. I know people who have wrestled with judging people who were in the same position today that they were years ago. Right. And so it's easy to look at people, uh, and have that, that temptation to judge them. And so when a blue has a natural strength in something, uh, maybe it, maybe it's tact or, uh, being intentional with people. There's other personalities where that's not their first mode, right?

Mm-hmm.

If your first mode is getting things done, then sometimes People aren't your first consideration. That's not bad. That's just the order of things in the natural way of that personality. And so for a blue to judge one of those other personalities based on the fact that they don't naturally always put people first is, is really not the best use of these assessments, right? And recognizing like, hey, in those kinds of things that you can come alongside someone with a, with a different personality and show them the way. that's, that's a little bit better in that way. And then also lastly, it made me think about how they can also be advantageous for, for an individual themselves, right? That personal understanding is something that's super helpful. Sometimes Myers-Briggs is another personality assessment that I think is really valuable. There's 16 of them. So sometimes it can be a little disorienting.

Right.

But it gives a little bit more context to, instead of there just being 4 colors, Now, granted, there are more combinations of those colors, but in the Myers-Briggs being 16, if you feel like you never fit in or you're kind of marginalized or misunderstood, then some of these types in the Myers-Briggs particularly, I know that was for me, an INFJ being only 1% of the population. I remember that being very empowering when I was reading about that type because I was like, oh, this is interesting. Because in other assessments, sometimes you read and you're like, yeah, I mean, 50% of that's true. I don't really know if I'd apply all of it to me. And so I think that can be really useful to someone for self-reflection, right? If that's, if that's something that, that you really enjoy, I think self-reflection can be a huge tool in personal growth. And so reading something like that, that's highly specific to you, especially for the first time, can be really, really powerful. Now, along that similar line, they say in especially romantic relationships, opposites attract, right? And that's true for you and me. So how specifically do these kinds of assessments help people when, let's face it, they are, they are as different as different can be, right?

Right. Um, so I really, I like the way that the Color Code just approaches it of like, okay, let's take a look at, here's all the personality types, and then let's take a look at how they interact together, right? So let's think about a, a relationship where Both people are both reds, or a red and a blue, or a red and a yellow—whatever that that's going to look like, right? And so they also break down and help you understand. Like this is how these two can come together in in a relationship. And so the nickname of a red and a blue relationship is called fireworks, right? And so it can be a very yeah, it can be such an explosive relationship if not harnessed correctly, and if both parties just continue to live in their limits. And so I think for us, it's, it's been really good to have this common language. You know, we went and took a weekend seminar about it and really dove deep into it. We were with other people, learned about how other relationships interact together. And it was just such a helpful thing for us to have this, this common language, right? And so it allowed us to understand some from the perspective of the other person. And how when we're stressed, when we're frustrated, when we're upset, we tend to go to and live in our limitations, right? And we tend to hang on to those, and that tends to be what comes out when we're in those moments of stress. And so it can be a really eye-opening thing to go, that's why you do that, or to just have a deeper understanding of Those times of conflict. And then not only does it— it doesn't stop it just like, well, this is who you are in the middle of conflict, right? But here's some ways that you can learn to start to take that limitation and turn it into something that can be positive. And here's how you can work on this, and here's how you can work on this together, um, you know, and, and to help each other. You do have to be careful in the middle of conflict that you don't Like we talked about, like pigeonholing or like throwing it back at the other person. You don't want to use it as a weapon in the middle of conflict, right? But it can be an opportunity for you to process and go, okay, hang on a minute, like this is part of the core of who they are, or this is a core motivator, and now I've bumped into something that goes against their core motivation. How do we come back and find a place of resolution? Or how do we, how do we see this well through the other person's perspective? And so I think for us as 2 very different personalities, like we approach things both such different ways, um, that it really helped us to take a look at something and to see the problem as the problem and how do we individually approach that problem and then tackle it together.

Yeah. And the group setting, honestly, we've done it in many contexts now over the years and it's been Something that's really honestly pretty enjoyable. If you think about—

Mm-hmm.

There's a lot of, a lot of comedians talk about marriage, for example, and there's a lot of humor that can come along with the universal experiences that people have in their differences, right? Like the type of guy that does this and like the ladies are all rolling their eyes and like, oh my gosh, yours too? You know, like, and those kinds of things with the personality assessment, especially with With, you know, when we did it, our first seminar was a bunch of married couples, like from our young age back then all the way to, you know, grandparents and just hearing everybody laugh at the same joke and look at each other. And those were things where it's like, this is— it kind of helps normalize, like, this isn't just us. This is normal. That doesn't mean there can't be 2 spouses with almost the exact same personality type, but it's definitely rarer. And really, really goes to, yeah, opposites do attract.

Mm-hmm.

That creates, like you said, a lot of benefits, right? You said in our marriage episode that that's part of that is like stimulating in a relationship, right? And having someone with a, with a different perspective. And let's face it this way, if you had someone that had all your strengths and all your limitations, that seems like that would be a tough way to go, right?

Right.

And so if you have somebody that is an opposite, then, then you can shore each other's weaknesses up. You can shore each other's limitations up and, uh, your strengths oftentimes are exactly what do that for the other person. So I think that's, uh, that's a super powerful thing that I think, uh, that I think can help. What about knowing the core motivator about someone else's personality helps you kind of meet them in that way? Because I— let's, let's frame this up a little bit. I think that personality assessments can be the most useful when you're the one reflecting and not necessarily changing yourself, but adapting to that other person with grace, right? And so how does knowing that core motivator change how you approach other people?

So I think like for me, knowing that your core motivator is intimacy and relationships, it's looking for those pockets of time to help to meet that core need within you, right? Or to approach a conversation maybe differently from a different angle, because I know that at the end of the day, your goal is to have restoration within that relationship and within that moment, right? Mine is definitely like to get things done, to get from A to B, to definition, to do tasks. And so to not let the tasks of things Override the relationship component of things, right? And and to not just like freight train you over because I want to get all these things done. But how do I leave time for the relationship component, right? And so we've had to work through some of those things. Or you know, we laugh too about like there's things out there online that are like, yeah, the cool thing about being married to an independent woman, or in this instance, in a very red type A personality woman, is that you have exactly point three seconds to do. Exactly what she's asked you to do, or she's going to do it herself. Right. And so in those moments, it's like, no, you want to, you want the intimacy of that relationship. And so you want to do whatever it is that I have asked that I need help with or whatever, but it may not be on my timeline. You're going to do it, but it may not be on my timeline. And so I've had to learn that, yes, because of that need for intimacy and the need for that relationship component, you're going to do it. But it's probably not gonna be on my A to B timeline, and that's okay. Right? So I have to stop and slow down and remember to put that need of yours ahead of that need of mine. Now, if it doesn't get done or it takes, you know, however too long or whatever that, that situation may be, then I can step in and, and maybe say something again in a non-nagging kind of a way. Yeah. So I think it just really helped in the ways in which I ask for help or the ways in which that I approach what my needs are, but also looking at them through the lens of what your need is as well. Another great one for not necessarily like— it's kind of personalities but kind of not— is the 5 Love Languages. And so there's all of these different ways in which that we can serve one another. And if you combine the 5 Love Languages and then something like the color code, you have an even deeper understanding of your spouse and what it means to actually meet their core needs and the things that actually are going to say, hey, I love you to, to your spouse and to your kids. And so when you can understand what those things are, you approach situations differently. You approach how you buy gifts differently. You approach how you plan vacations differently. You approach conflict differently because you have this better and deeper understanding of who they are at the core. And you can just love them in a different kind of a manner because of that understanding.

And like you said earlier, with the communication bit, a lot of times couples get in trouble for the, the unmet, unsaid expectations, right?

Yep.

So if a spouse isn't given the full context, you know, and sometimes I understand you can't be as ridiculous with it, you know, like, hey, I need you to do this and this duration. This is why, you know, like a lot of that is, is a lot of information that's probably unnecessary. I've got some mentors that call that disclaiming. And they're like, no, if someone has questions, Let them ask those. But on that very same token, if you never explain your expectations, then the odds of your expectations being met fully all the time is approximately 0%, right?

Yes, right.

And so, like you said, that's, that's really important in the communication aspect as well. And I think honestly, knowing those core motivators is helpful. And then like you touched on earlier, I want to re-highlight the 2 things we've talked about in our marriage episode about Assuming positive intent, right? And knowing that when someone is, someone is direct in their feedback, in their expectations, that that is not taken as a personal attack. A lot of my blue personalities, uh, that are more emotive, that is going to be— the yellow personalities can also be vulnerable to that in certain contexts. And then even the white personalities that is associated with peace.

Mm-hmm.

You know, conflict is intense for them specifically, as a general rule. And so assuming positive intent is really important in not losing your emotions, right? And then the second one is controlling that second thought, like filtering people's actions and words through their character and who you know them to be. Uh, that's something that's very important that we discuss often on this channel. If someone does that, then you can make a very easy assumption in your mental flowchart of, they just said and did this. It really made me feel a certain kind of way. Uh, is this consistent with who I know them to be?

Right.

And if the answer is no, then I think it's a really easy flow into, you know, maybe they're having a bad day. Maybe something's— maybe, maybe it has nothing to do with me. The answer to that is probably yes. And so, uh, and that's an easy way to, uh, kind of handle things on your end, right? And self-manage Uh, like we talked about on earlier episodes, managing those expectations and those emotions that can sometimes get out of, out of whack when you're engaging someone else that's different, for sure, especially in conflict.

Right. And then to understand that we do live in the limitations of our, our main color, and then even whatever our secondary may be in the middle of conflict. And so how do we, how do we strengthen up and shore those up? How do we take a good self-reflection time and go, okay, I see this as becoming a problem within the way that I do conflict or the way in which I am thinking about certain situations or the way in which I take feedback, or maybe it's the way I handle criticism or any of those kinds of things. Like, I need to take a look at that limitation and how do I not let that impact every area of my life and not live in that limitation, but learn to filter, like you said, things through what you know about that person who's coming to you or whatever that, that may look like. And so.

Yeah.

Um, just that really, that self-assessment. It's, it's more about you and who you are rather than using it as a weapon against other people.

Yeah, absolutely. And it sounds kind of weird to say it's all about you, but let's frame this in a way that makes sense, right? In the end of the day, the only person you can control is you, right? Correct. And so you can know about other people, and that can help you understand, but at the end of the day, understanding them and where they're coming from, whether it's a very healthy avenue they're approaching you or an unhealthy one, is gonna fall on you to be— to step up.

Correct.

To find an opportunity to work around that, especially if it's, you know, in the negative, obviously. And so let that help us transition into the workplace, which is another great use, obviously, of personality assessments in understanding your colleagues, your employees, and, you know, how to associate with them. I'll share, in one of our manager offsites, there was a colleague of mine that I was, I had a tremendous amount of respect for, and her and I were already pretty close as friends. And I remember playing a team-building game that we called the Lego game. And this was that you'd sit back to back. One person would have the instructions of a very simple Lego game. And so when her and I sat together and started doing this Lego puzzle, I was doing the Legos, she was reading the instructions, and I learned very, very quickly that the way we communicate on strategic matters was entirely different. The way she conceptualized the pieces and described them, I was like, man, this is not Hmm. gonna be constructive. To win this game. And I learned very quickly that, okay, so I have to adapt and figure out how to ask specific questions to try to get on the same page with her. And I— what was cool about that is learning later on when we were in situations of managing employees, sharing perspectives, solving problems, sometimes in higher stress scenarios, I remembered that Lego game.

Mm-hmm.

And that illustration was like, That always stuck with me of if I got the feeling that we weren't on the same page, which was likely because how different we are, I was like, okay, this is, this is an opportunity for me to clarify, to, to kind of try to bring us around in the same place, you know?

Yeah, absolutely. I have used it so much in the workplace, specifically when I worked with the college students in the admissions office. Right. So it'd be super helpful because they were gonna be on this team of people for sometimes an entire summer, and they were gonna be with them 24/7 for the whole summer. Or maybe they were on this team for an entire year working together to recruit students. And so it was really important for us to understand each other and how we, um, were going to handle conflict because inevitably you're going to have conflict. And so it really helped us to understand each other, and it also was helpful for them to kind of know what roles to take within the team. Right? And so, everybody has these different strengths that they bring to the table, and some of them are going to come more naturally. And so, how do we lean into those natural strengths? And then, how do we help each other shore up our weaknesses, right? And so, maybe we don't put the person who absolutely seeks peace, we don't put them in charge of creating an entirely new process and systems, right? Or the implementation of maybe the processes and the systems, because there's going to be a lot of conflict coming with that. They are so good—

They're not disruptive enough to—

Correct. They're not disruptive enough to implement maybe, but they would be great on the committee to help us think through because they're really good at processes and procedure and understanding—

Discernment.

How to— discernment. Yes, thank you. That's a great word for that, that such discerning. And so, we have to look at those things and go, hey, how can we help each other and how can we put you in the right seat on the bus? Right? That's another one of those leadership one-on-one kinds of things, making sure you have the right people in the right seats on the bus. And we can do that through using personality tests, right? So now before we hire any managers or we add anyone to our team, we have a couple of different assessments that we have them take because we want to understand who it is that we are asking and inviting into our team. Because this is such a, um, we've worked really hard to get to where we are and it's kind of this sacred space. And so we want to make sure that who we're allowing to align with that Is going to fit into maybe the empty puzzle piece that we're looking to fill right now. On the other side of that, you don't want to not hire someone because you're like, well, the personality exam says that they're going to, you know, not be good at this, but this is the role we're trying to fill. Like, you have to take it all with a grain of salt, and it's a good window into that person, but it's not the end-all be-all. It's not exactly like the blueprint, right? And so we have to, as leaders, be wise and then maybe ask them some further clarity. clarifying questions based upon the things that you see from those assessments. But yeah, they're such a great tool for someone who is hiring and looking to take those next steps with their team, or even with your existing team, so that you can understand who they are better and to lead them in a way in which is going to speak to the core needs and the core motives that that employee has.

Yeah, absolutely. That is so true. And I know we were speaking about off camera about the, the tendency to Uh, and specifically your personality to move straight into business as you worded it, right? And going, wait, it's, it's, it's not just polite, but it's helpful to some personality types to like acknowledge the person first. That sounds so like dry and mean. But like, I'll say this in our marriage, because we're so different. I've learned things from your strengths, right? From a, from a Type A. And, uh, and likewise, you've learned from me in, in, in like the people arena, in understanding things aren't always black and white. They're sometimes on a sliding scale and not as— and a little more nuanced maybe as a way to frame that. Right. And so what's funny about you saying that about this and having to be like conscious to, you know, how are you and how are you doing? And then, then getting into what you need from in the, you know, it's, this is a professional context. We're here to get work done. So we're not here to just, you know, small talk all day.

Right.

What's funny about that is like, I too find this challenging. Because I have moved more towards a Type A in certain contexts at work because I know things need to get done right. And I get into that A to B mode, completion mode. And, and sometimes, you know, you're just sending emails, texting people, and I can see where that would be abrupt versus like, hey, how are you? Hope you're having a great day. I sometimes feel like that's disingenuous for me to— and I'm all about being genuine. Like, I feel like that engaging in that small talk.

Mm-hmm.

makes it seem even more so like— let me flip it. Sometimes when I feel like someone's asking me those questions, I don't feel like they really care. I'm already asking myself, what do you want? Right? And, and maybe it's been because I've had certain employees before who are disingenuous with that and almost like buttery, you know, they're like, oh my gosh, you're doing like, you look so good today. Like, how are you? Wow. You know? All right, laying it on thick today. You must need something big, you know? And so it's a challenge for me to find that balance. You know, there's those people that, you know, don't need or value that. So you can just be like, hey, I need this. They're like, perfect, here you go. Thanks. High five. Walk away. Right. So how has this been for you? That's obviously your natural default. So how's that balance been to you?

Yeah, so it, it took some time to learn for sure. I'll never forget one of my first year, year and a half in this role. We we did like a little offsite thing and talked about personalities and some different things, and something that like something that we all went around the room and and told each other like hey this really like rubs up against me, or hey like this is really hard for me to take when you do this. And I'll never forget one of the managers being like yeah you're just a harsh startup right? Like you just come in and like we we go. Straight for the punch, right? There's no like buttering you up or like, yeah, even acknowledging like, hey, you might have been in the middle of something or, you know, whatever. And so, um, that was really kind of an eye-opening thing for me. And so really tried to, um, come at it of like, uh, or texting them and saying, hey, when you have a minute, will you call me? I need some help with something. Or hey, I could use help on this. Or asking questions rather than just Jumping in with gusto, right? Or if I'm gonna go see them and asking, hey, can I come in and see you maybe at 2:15 this afternoon? I have something that I needed some help with, right? Like setting that expectation, because I also know that in my A to B red personality type, I may be so deeply in the middle of something that you walk in and need something else. My brain takes a minute to pivot and pull up out of whatever deep dive, usually auditing something that I'm doing in the office. Mm-hmm. To help address whatever it is that you need, and so if I want that same respect, I need to give that back to other managers, to other employees. And so how do I best communicate that? And people need to feel seen and acknowledged and heard, and then they will move heaven and earth to help you, right? And so how do we with intention and not in a fake kind of a way? Because while I am all about A to B and getting the task done, I do genuinely care about other people, and it's not. about just using them or running them over, or what do I need from them to accomplish my task, right? And so I have to actually stop and slow down and show people that I need you and that I care about you and that you are important to me. And so I think it's this, for me at least, it's been a conscious slowdown and to be, um, to be aware, to actually see people and then ask a question that I genuinely want the answer to. Right? Not just this like fake fluffy, all the things, right? Or not trying to butter them up, but genuinely conveying, hey, I care about you and I could, I could use your help in this moment.

I love that you brought that up, that exercise that we had that was really eye-opening, right? And it was, it was an exercise, I believe, that we shared the thing, the one strength that everyone found very valuable from that person. The rule was you couldn't reply with anything but thank you, right? And then the most difficult part of that was having everyone share with you the one limitation that was the most impactful for them about you, right? When you do this, this is what happens. And all you could say was, thank you. And going around a room where everyone's sharing something that is challenging for them about you is definitely, man, when you're willing to listen to that criticism, I remember it being really powerful. One of our managers worked really hard for like a year on the specific thing that we mentioned. And I remember how proud he was when, when we did an exercise that was similar. And he says, so here's a win. Nobody mentioned that this time. And like, he was so happy about that. And yeah, props to him. And that, that goes to, goes to show the value of listening, right?

Correct.

And the other thing that I wanted to highlight about our experience specifically, because we've drilled into this like every year for the last 6 years, I feel like Is that, uh, in our business, there are a ton of Type As. And what's been really cool about that is we've been able to see all the different types of one personality type, right? So if we use a color code, for example, uh, Type As are generally reds. And we've seen, I mean, I, I wanna say now with, with everyone that's been on the team over the last 6 years, we've probably seen around 7 or 8 reds, right?

Mm-hmm.

And And all of them have had different mixes of strength and limitations. And so talk to us specifically, I mean, you are a red, so talk to us specifically how these kinds of exercises have helped you build those bridges with other reds and the things that have also surprised you in like, I did— I didn't expect you're like me, but I didn't expect you to have that version of this.

Yeah. There's so many nuances within each, uh, within each personality type and so many different strengths and so many of different limitations that live within that color that very rarely is one person going to have all of— like, you're not going to have all strengths and all limitations of that entire color. And so it's about finding common ground first of all and going, okay, we share this desire as a red to do X, Y, and Z, right? But then we also share this same limitation. So how do we not feed each other's limitations? How do we help shore that How do we help point out when the other person is, is reverting back to this limitation that they maybe have worked on? And how do we help do that together? What's interesting is because there's so many different strengths and limitations within each color that even reds don't always communicate the same way, right? I have another colleague at work who's just as red as I am, but we don't always communicate in the same way. And so we've had to learn to over the years, work through that and find a common way of communicating. And then, and then to be willing to admit like, hey, I didn't handle that right, or hey, I was wrong about this situation, or oh hey, X, Y, and Z. And I think that that's one of the things that sets people apart, is when you can acknowledge and apologize for the ways in which that you have lived in this limitation for a hot minute, or oh hey, I handled this situation in, in a great manner, being able to apologize for that, um, no matter your personality type, is a huge, huge, huge thing. Um, but I think also on, on the other hand, it is, um, it helps us see the differences within each other and to just have a deeper and better understanding of that. There have been times that I have been very surprised at a color that a certain employee was, or at the core of who, what motivated them. And then once I started looking at that, I went, Oh, I do see that pop up from time to time, right? Or maybe outside of work they are that person, but in work they have learned to become what they thought that the role that they were in required of them, and to learn to live in the strengths of whatever— maybe it's a secondary color, right? But they've learned to live in the strengths of that secondary color in this specific instance and in this this workplace. And so it gives me a whole nother view of who they are and an understanding of really this whole person, right? Because we are all so— we have so many facets and so many depths and so many layers to each of us that it isn't going to be this one-size-fits-all. But I think it just gives us this broader scope of, um, the people that we work with, the people that we are in relationships with, our, our friends and our family. Like, how do we help understand each other the best and all of those unique gifts that we have that we bring to the table so that we can work incredibly well together and keep momentum moving forward to accomplish whatever the task is that we have been given in whatever roles it is that we have.

Absolutely. And I echo that. One of my favorite things to do is to, on these personality assessments, whichever one you want to play around with, a lot of times they will give you sections of your type And how you could possibly be as a boss or how you could be as an employee or a spouse. And then they'll also have different sections where you can, you know, obviously if you have someone else's assessment, like maybe you're, you know, if you do this in a group setting, you could have access to your boss's assessment. So you could kind of read those kinds of things about them, which is very insightful. And then in addition, there are some, some combinations that can tell you like, hey, if you're a blue married to a red, Right? Or if you're this personality type and this is your employee or whatever that combination is, sometimes it'll give you a mixture of those 2 and kind of describe some of the experiences you might have with that person. And some of that's my favorite reading because it's not telling you— it's funny because it's, it often tells you things you already know, but it helps normalize. It helps bring a light to maybe some of the whys in your experience.

Yep.

Because you're like, man, like, why is this always a tough thing? Or why are we always clashing in this way? And then if it answers that why, then you're like, okay. And that clarity can give you some, uh, can sometimes give you reprieve in that conflict, to be honest.

Right.

And so, I think that's really, really been helpful to me in really diving into, you know, our management team personalities over the years. And then now in the age of AI, I mean, you can really plug in multiple assessments if you have access to those and say, you know, like, hey, what are going to be our biggest challenges as a team? What are going to be the things that we the foundational things that are good that we can build on top of. Those kinds of conversations can be, again, really, really eye-opening. Because again, let's face it, a lot of these assessments are, you know, 20 to 50 pages long. And, you know, if you're going to have to read 8 of them for your team, that can be a little, maybe a little challenging, some light reading, you know. And so you can plug those into, you know, AI and have some really, really insightful So yeah, this can be a real huge game changer. Some of the biggest things to remember is it does start with you. That focus needs to be on you. How can I meet this person? How can I build a bridge? How can I understand myself and them and how we interact with one another? This week, I would encourage you to, if you have the ability to pick one person that maybe identify as someone you struggle to communicate with, or maybe someone that you, you are not are frequently judging or bumping up against, is it— are you close enough with them that you guys can do some sort of personality exercise together? A lot of these are free. The 16 Personalities that we'll link is one that is free. The Color Code is free for the first color. There are 4 total colors. Everyone has a combination of all 4 usually. So you can get your dominant color and brief assessment for no charge as well. And there are so many, so many others like the Enneagram and so many more. So finding out what their core motivators are and how you can plug into making that relationship, whether it's one that is at work or one that is at home, more fruitful and beneficial for both of you. So thanks for listening to the Optimizing Beyond podcast. Remember, growth happens when you take action. So subscribe, share this with a friend, and most importantly, Put what you learned into practice. Until next time, keep moving forward, because as we know, daily anything changes everything.