The Power of Words: Stop Negative Self-Talk | Ft Gregg Hull

Welcome to the Optimizing Beyond podcast. I'm Josh Nagron, and this show is all about sharing lessons, ideas, and strategies that sharpen your thinking, strengthen your habits, and push you to grow beyond comfort zones. Let's dive in. Welcome back to the show. Today I'm excited because I have a dear friend that I've known— gosh, I, I want to say almost 20 years now. And we just, we just enjoy having conversations. So I've been wanting, I've been trying to get Greg on the show for a hot minute. He's a busy guy. But I finally got him on the show. Greg, welcome to Optimizing Beyond.

It's good to be here, Josh. Glad to finally be able to come on the show.

That's right. That's right. Hopefully not the last one. When we were talking backstage, we were talking about the things that we're both passionate about, right? And so the power of words is something that we've both had a pretty long journey on in these, in these years. So why is this something deep and personal to you, this topic?

Man, words have been something that have defined my life since I was a teenager, like maybe even before then, like as a young kid, words were something that I let affect me in positive and negative ways, mostly negative for most of my young life. So I remember being a kid, like I grew up as a nerd, like I like all things nerdy, like Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, comics, like All of it. Like, I'm a huge nerd. And that played a part in some bullying and things like that growing up. Like, I didn't really fit into a lot of friend groups. Like, I had friends in every group, but I wasn't really a part of the clique, if that makes sense. So there was a lot of, like, just the words that people would say, like, would affect you. Mm-hmm. And so I developed this really dark, really deep depression. Loathing of self-worth, like, all because of the things that I thought about myself and the things that I thought were true, the words that I would tell myself. You know, you say more in your own head to yourself than you do out loud or whatever anyone says to you. So the words that I would say to myself were never good. And so I developed this identity and persona of who I was that was just not a good thing. And so it brought me to this dark place of depression that it took me 35 years, almost 40 years to start to work out of that. It wasn't until probably 3, 4, 5 years ago that I really started to work on some of that when I hit a really dark place and found out what the power of words really does to a person.

You know, it's so funny because we convince ourselves with that, with those words and with those narratives that like, in the same way we believe that we don't matter, that We almost minimize the effects easily, the effects and the power of those words at the same time, when in reality, that's what's keeping us down by that very result. It's crazy, that power. Now, you mentioned something interesting that I wanted to ask about. You said you almost, with the way you told that story, you almost made it sound like initially it was the effect of the words spoken over you from others. Do you think that that is what began? The source of the negative thoughts about yourself, for you, was it, was it from the outside in?

Yeah, I honestly think it partly was. Like, there was a part of me that wanted to fit in, wanted to be accepted, wanted to be acknowledged, however you want to put that. And for me, it was the unacceptance, that part of relationships that kids have where, like, kids can just be mean, you know? And so not fitting in, not feeling like I belong anywhere. And so it was that outside in where, you know, I had no real negative family issues when it came to my identity, but like I grew up in a household where my dad was gone a lot. He was not always the best dad. My mom was in a situation where she was handicapped and trying to raise 3 kids. So I kind of, hung out with a lot more adults than I did kids, so I didn't really fit in real well. Like, I didn't have that identity like with kids, so I always felt like kind of an outcast. And so that, that negative feedback started to affect me in a way of like, maybe this is what I am, this is who I am, this is how I am, like all of those things. And as that feedback loop happened where, you know, you just feel like you can't make friends, you can't find anybody that relates to you, whatever, you start to tell yourself those things. It really does become this idea of self-fulfilling prophecy, where the more you say it, the more it becomes true. Great example of that is when I was in junior high, high school, like starting to date, there were girls that I would like go out with, date, whatever. And like every girlfriend that I had had cheated on me with somebody else, like all the way up until through high school. I dated the same girl for 5 years. We ended up getting married out of high school, but the whole time I'm saying things like, well, you're just gonna cheat on me. Like, you'll find somebody else anyway. Like, you'll trade me in for a better model. All of those types of things. And guess what? Eventually, after about a year and a half of being married, she ended up cheating on me. And so I didn't realize at the time that I do now that all of those things that you say, you're putting that into momentum, into the world. You're putting it out there. And sometimes it actually gains traction. And can become something else.

It kind of sounds— I know sometimes people like to be dismissive of that because it kind of sounds like, you know, the, like, hookey, you know, that like, oh, you're just, you're manifesting, you know? And I don't know if it has to be that mysterious. Like, yeah, if there's— if you're just— if you're speaking it into, into existence, there, there's something there that gives it credence. Like, even if it's something as simple as like, well, I didn't have that idea until you mentioned it. You know, I mean, that's probably the simplest example of manifesting something of like, hey, you want to go out to dinner tonight? I mean, I hadn't considered it, but sure, you know, like, yeah, it's, it's this idea.

It's so interesting because like, if we talk about the power of words, the idea of a thought becoming action starts with what you tell yourself. And then high-level athletes talk about it all the time, the power of visualization, right? They imagine themselves In the position of winning. They imagine themselves in the position of doing whatever the thing is, right? That you put yourself in that situation to where your brain starts to think that it's real. Well, the words that you say do the same thing. Like, the things you start to tell yourself become real, and it just manifests in that sense. I'm not like a woo-woo type of person either, but like, there's a level of belief that you start to have. And I think belief is powerful in what you believe to be true can become your reality.

And I would say also that it can— when once that becomes your belief, it also doesn't allow any, any alternate script to make it through, right? So like you and I have discussed this with, you know, like self-loathing and negative self-talk, that when we start to really buy into those scripts for, I mean, goodness, decades, right? And then when someone says, hey, like, I love you, or you're awesome, or You know, think you're insert whatever positive adjective. It makes it to where there's a disconnect. Like you don't, you're almost not able to even fully receive that love, appreciation, and that belonging that caused this from the get-go. Isn't that crazy? We're going all the way to the beginning. And I noticed that was something with both of us that until we started working on that narrative that we believed, then those, the loved ones, the people that cared about us, that we were in a sense keeping them at arm's bay because There was a limit of the connection that we could have, right?

Yeah, it's— it goes back, I think, to that power of belief, right? So many times, and, and this is why, you know, I feel like there is a certain level of like when it comes to somebody's even religious standpoint, right? That level of belief that you have in something becomes almost a wall of preventing truth to penetrate, right? Whatever that is. So if you have a false belief, that belief becomes a core of who you are. And so taking away somebody's belief in something is like shattering a part of their identity. And so when you've built that foundation of belief of who you are, of like, I'm worthless, I'm terrible, I'm an awful human being, if people only knew like what I was like, they wouldn't see anything— all of those things.

Yeah.

When somebody does give you a compliment, you're bouncing that off of the belief that you already have in yourself, and it's almost impenetrable. It's like, well, you don't really know. Like, you're just, you know, you're just saying that. Or like, it might just be a moment. That's not who I am, but I'm glad that you think that, like, type of thing. Like, you can almost like just reflect it back on somebody, you know?

Yeah, it's amazing how it actually promotes disconnection, right? Because there is that dissonance of like, what you're saying doesn't match what I believe. And so I mean, obviously, I know myself better. So, you know, you've, you've got to— either you're lying, or you, you just don't know. Yeah, it's both, both give you an out. Yeah, for sure. So what, what key things changed that awareness for you to put value in the things that you were saying? Because like we said earlier, like, a long time ago, it didn't matter what we said about ourselves. And then at some point, you and I both were like, This is huge. You know, what changed that? What couple things changed that for you?

Well, a couple of things. First of all, the belief that— well, watching the reality play out. Like, I have been married twice, married 3 times, divorced twice. Both divorces that I've had have ended in cheating. And it's because of the words that I said, I think, as a part of that manifesting that to happen. And so seeing that play out, In reality, in real time, and getting a feedback loop. But in all honesty, like, I'm, I'm a very, like, science person. Like, I, I need, like, truth. I need reality. I need facts. Like, and so one of the biggest things for me was watching a study that was done on plants and the power of words that was done on plants. And having 2 different plants in the same environment, same light, setup, same sunlight, like everything. And in one room where the plants were, they spoke positivity to the plants. Like, it was the weirdest thing, but like you would watch them go into the room and be like, you're such a good plant, you're gonna be so strong, keep going. Like, and they would just encourage the plant. And watching the plant flourish and bloom and become this beautiful like thing. And then in the other room, they were the exact opposite. You're never going to be anything. Like, why do you even try? Like, the sun isn't even gonna do it for you. Like, you're not gonna be able to grow up to do anything significant. And they would just speak these negative words to the plant, and the plant, even though it had the exact same sunlight, the exact same conditions, it withered and it died with just words. And it was absolutely incredible to see. And it was a repeatable thing. Like, it wasn't a one-time— Go home and do it to your, like, plants yourself. Like, set one in one room and one in another and Talk lovey-dovey to your plant. I know it sounds dumb, but talk to your plant in positive ways and see what happens. I can't even tell you. So it was, it was watching that in real time happen and being able to say, okay, words have power. Words— there's something about the things that come out of our mouth that we put into this world that become the reality that we have. And so you can call it manifestation, you can Call it what you want, but there is a level of authority that we have as human beings where we speak something into existence, where it permeates our belief to become reality.

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, one of my earliest episodes was about the ex— what a book that was called The Expectation Effect. And it really scienced this up as far as like not going into the weird, you know, manifestation stuff, but just calling it like, hey, you're familiar with the placebo effect, right? And so it's like, how weird is it that the expectation of something good or beneficial happening, even if it's not a real drug, that has a psychological power and could manifest certain physical changes? And then also describing the nocebo effect of the expectation of like, well, if a doctor tells you you have cancer, and there were multiple— I mean, this book was like actually rather, I don't want to say dry, but like Kind of clunky because it was like, hey, here's the concept. Here's like 13 examples, right? And so he's just like, just assaulting you with them. And it was like a guy who was told, hey, it was some sort of cancer, I think liver or something or kidney or something. And he was like, you have 6 weeks, 6 weeks, 6 months to live. Sure enough, he died. And then they did an autopsy and he didn't have cancer. And it was like, what in the world? And so just, just, just that concept. Right. And then if, if words and belief, like if belief works that way, and words we already talked about feed belief, then this is this thing that, that such tremendous power. And you know, if you're a person of faith, there's plenty of religions that discuss the power of words. I know in the Bible specifically, James like goes on a rant about like, hey, the tongue is like, can set the whole world on fire. Like, so you need to be accountable, you need to be careful. And let's not You know, in the whole creation story, God created by what?

Word.

Speaking. Yeah. Yeah. So man, that is, that is just so, so important. I remember when I was going through this, like you said it earlier, like we say the worst. I think what challenged me was just the concept, right? Mentors and people like that would say, how many of you say things to yourself that you would never utter to another human being? And then I got to thinking about that. It seems silly, but I obviously that's challenging. You're like, Interesting. Why is that? You start to ask yourself some questions. But then additionally, you're like, well, if words don't matter, right? You know, that false belief. If words don't matter, then what does it matter if I say those words to Greg? I wouldn't, but why wouldn't I? And it's like, well, because it could affect our relationship or like it could affect Greg negatively. Like, I wouldn't want to do that. Like, a good human doesn't do that. And so I was like, well, okay, then, then why doesn't that apply this way? And so that was like the cerebral challenge for me. And then you said earlier, it's, it was bang on that we, we say like we think so many more words than we speak out loud, right? I do think the spoken word has, has a different category of power. That's just, that's just my opinion. But the internal dialogue is equally as critical, even from like, even if it is like from a weaker influence, you say so many more, like 10, at least 10 times more. I think it was a book that I read that was like, in just the morning, you can have said over 3,000 words to yourself in just in the morning. And I'm like, oh, geez. So for me, you know, it's like, you don't know you have a problem until you admit that you have a problem. And so that awareness really, like, you know, that fed into just kind of analyzing, okay, so what, what am I continuously saying about myself? And that thread for most people, uh, I don't think there are very many unique negative things people say to each other, uh, or say to themselves rather. Um, but there are a few, you know, like, I'm not enough. Nothing I do is good enough. I'm not gonna amount to anything. What's the point? You know, there just seems to be a lot of those commonalities. And so once you recognize the pattern, you can really start to see how it affects the belief.

Yeah.

And then you're like, oh snap, like that explains why I respond this way to the people I care about and how I'm not able to take compliments. And I mean, and you see like, holy crap, this affects my life on a, On a pretty deep level.

Yeah, like on an intimate personal level. Like it's, it's something that is ingrained inside of you for so long that it becomes who you are at some point. And that's where the idea of reframing and re— like teaching yourself to speak positively becomes this break in identity. It's really recreating who you are from the inside out. Like you— I, I remember for For me, the question was, because I've, I said it for so long, like it was something I knew consciously and even said it out loud, was like, I like people more than I like myself, right? Like, I love people. I don't really like myself very much. I love people, but I don't like me. And so the question was, why? Like, what is it about me? Why am I the one who I despise so much? And like, doing that work internally to figure out what am I saying to myself? What is it that the words are doing to me? Like, what is the benefit to me to tell me how much I hate myself? Like, what does that do to me? Like, why do I— why do I care? Like, you know? And it became this cycle of, like, almost masochism, but not in, like, a physical abuse way. But it's like, I hurt myself Because I felt like I deserved to hurt myself. And it was, it was this cycle that I was like, this doesn't make any sense. Like, I have to stop.

So, okay, from an application standpoint, I mean, I, I hear this a lot when I discuss this with people. They're like, well, what do you expect me to do? Like, how do, how do you even do this without being like ridiculously cheesy? I mean, we both laughed when you were talking about saying silly stuff like that to the plant, you know, like it's just You know, you hear people like, they're like, stand in front of the mirror, go into your Superman pose, and then list affirmations, you know, like, so how did you, you know, because when you're, when you're negative, when you're cynical, when you have that mindset, and you're consumed by it, it, I mean, this just sounds silly. Yeah.

So going back to James, I think, I mean, the first thing is to take the thought captive, right? Like, and that doesn't necessarily mean to not think it, but like to realize that it's happening, to stop in the moment and say, why am I thinking this? Is it true? Is it real? And if it is, then what am I going to do differently? But that's hard, especially in an emotional state, like when you're feeling depressed, when you're in that, that deep dark place, like having a moment to say no, like I'm I'm not this, is hard. And so sometimes you can't deny the words that are happening in your head. So you just have to recognize, okay, I'm in this place, I'm spiraling. And for me, you know, as my friend, like, there were times when I would just be like, hey, I'm spiraling, or I'm in a bad place, or whatever the language was. Like, I would confess it, right? I would tell you.

Mm-hmm.

Sometimes you just have to talk to people. Like, sometimes it comes down to getting professional help. I'm not opposed to that. I think it's absolutely beneficial. But for a long time, it for me was just telling on myself and saying, hey, I'm not in a good place right now, and recognizing that and then taking the time to overcome that. So we've both worked with Danelle Delgado quite a bit, like her gratitude journal, right? The 4 G's every single day. So once I got into a habit of gratitude and realizing the power of being grateful for the things in my life and breaking the depressive cycle of like thinking the world is falling apart, thinking things are going, you know, to hell in a handbasket, and being able to focus— sometimes it only takes one thing like to focus on, to be grateful for, to really take you away from the brink. Now it doesn't pull you out of the pit, but it takes you away from the brink. Um, and that power of gratitude of just being, okay, I'm going to do 10 things. So you talk about standing in the mirror in your Superman pose. I'm not saying that you have to do that, but sometimes it's a list of 100 things that you're grateful for, for yourself.

Mm-hmm.

And being able to find everything that you can think of, of what's good about you. And that list becomes a foundation or a rock Or a place to start where you can build on that and start to add words to that identity that you formed. Because I think everybody can find one thing. I think it's a little harder to find 10 things. But if we were to all sit down and write a list of 100 things we like about ourselves, for some people that seems like it's an insurmountable task. But I promise you, once you do that, it's the first door to crack open to get past Yeah, I, man, I can't say enough about gratitude myself.

I was pretty cynical about it when I was first asked to do it. I was challenged to do 10 and I did 3 out of spite. And so it just seemed, man, so, so insignificant and so silly, right? When I had Glenn Lundy on the show, he said, great, well, if it's so easy, then it shouldn't be hard to do regularly and, and prove me wrong. So, you know, and he, he works with a lot of like entrepreneurs. And so, you know, I was like, okay, I'll do it. They're like, bet, you know, and then they're like, you were right. So, and I like, I give tips on gratitude all the time. I recommend that people, you know, do the— within reason, the last 24 hours. I think that keeps things fresh. Because if you're always writing your like, top, top everything gratitudes, I feel like that list doesn't change very often. And it can kind of lose its effect, you know.

Mm-hmm.

And you mentioned when you're, when you're dealing with hating yourself, Writing things you're grateful for specifically about yourself, so powerful. When you're having conflict with somebody else, writing 10 things that you're grateful for about them when you'd like to shove a shiv in their face, you know, like that's really hard to be like, Greg is awesome. So I will say for me, the negative self-talk, you know, we're speaking about application. For me, it felt so overwhelming to try to attack, right? You know, you're— if we're talking about thousands of thoughts a day, I'm like, good night. Like, I don't even know how to do that. And so for some reason, it was a logical switch for me where I was like, okay, I say, I say plenty of this crap out loud, right? And so we were talking about the spoken word being more powerful. So I was like, okay, well, maybe I can, maybe I can reverse engineer this. And so I was like, fine, I'll, I'll commit to not saying these negative things out loud. I don't even, I mean, I can't even fathom touching the thoughts, but let's just deal with this stuff out loud. And I recruited my homies, you know, I told my wife and you guys, I said, hey, if you hear me say something in, you know, negative like that about myself, I need you to call me on it. Most people are super chill about doing that. They're like, I get to chastise you. Awesome. I'm in. And so, and it was cool. Like, I mean, people would call me out and I would say, oh my gosh, I'm such an idiot, you know? And they'd be like, no. I'm like, ugh, that's annoying. Okay. And, uh, and honestly, it had a pretty, uh, It kind of started conditioning me to obviously catch the verbal word, but then it like worked its way backwards into recognizing, sometimes catching those thoughts, right? And you had mentioned, you know, that's that language of like taking thoughts captive. And Glenn Lundy, when he mentioned this to us, he framed it the way he conceptualized it and like, hey, you typically cannot control your first thought.

Right.

But you can control your second one, 'cause the first one sometimes just, I'm an idiot, you know?

Right.

And you're like, what do I do with that? Like, I can't make it go away. He's like, but then how you respond to that, like you said it earlier, take an inventory. Like, is this true? Like, ask some questions, be curious about it, not so judgmental or just automatically buying into it, right? And then you can say, no, that's not true. Introduce some alternative perspective or maybe a reframe to what you're— and, you know, maybe it's funny because like sometimes you're like, well, if I did something foolish or broke something or, you know, something that did make me feel like an idiot, maybe it does apply, right? And I think, I think at that point, you know, because now we're both to a point where I don't think that joking in that way has harmful effects. You know, sometimes I still have people who are like, wait, don't say that. And I'm like, dude, I'm just kidding. If you knew how little I meant by that, I mean, I think, I think you wouldn't make such a big deal about it.

Right.

But for me, that was huge, I think. And like I said, completely unexpected. Because I happened to just re, you know, reverse engineer the game by something that— because again, the negative thoughts were so overwhelming. I was like, there's no way. I will say, at that point in my life, I had no expectation that they would go away.

Yeah.

But it gets you in that habit, right? And then there's other things, you know, like gratitude. I think that just grow the snowball like what you described early on in our childhood. It grows that snowball in the opposite direction, you know, and getting it past net zero and then beyond.

Yeah. And if I can, if I can be a little transparent for a second, like one of the most powerful things that I've noticed in that snowball, one of the most powerful things that I've found about words is when you start speaking positivity, when you start speaking words that are affirmative and life-giving to yourself, it overflows naturally to others. You know, it's, it's one of those things. It's easy to give somebody a compliment. It's easy to— like I said, I liked people more than I liked myself, but I would always still find myself— and again, it goes back to maybe a little self-fulfilling prophecy, but it was like Like, if I'm always the negative one in the room, if somebody's always like, hey, how's it going, Greg? You're like, uh, it's okay, like, whatever, like, you know, you're always the negative one in the room. Nobody wants to be around you. Like, you're not going to have people in your circle, in your influence, right? You're going to be the Debbie Downer of the group, and people are gonna be like, well, we could invite Greg, or we could go without him and just have a good time, you know? And it's It's one of those things. So what I've noticed, and one of the things that's been absolutely mind-blowing to me, is as I've become more gracious and affirming of myself, it's been a lot easier for me to find the joy in other things and to be an affirmative person with other people. And so as I— I recently became a teacher this last year, you know, so first year teaching, interacting with students And making my room a place of— we don't, we don't negative self-talk. We don't talk bad about people. Like, we have positive language in the classroom. We do the 4 Gs every single day as a class where we can, like, reflect on that stuff. Watching the students be able to gravitate towards me into my classroom, even students I don't have this semester but had last semester, they come back and they are like, hey, Can I talk to you for a second? Can I like ask for your advice? Can I? You know what I mean? It's things like that that people are, you know, friends, family. When you are the one who has power in your words, people want that power in their life. They want that affirmation. They want that even if they don't believe it. Like even the negative Nancys like me who didn't believe the positive things people would. say about me, I still would seek out people who would say good things about me, if that makes sense. So, the power of words has really become— once it changes inside, it's funny to see how you can affect those around you with it as well. Like, it's incredible.

It allows you to give back in a way. Yeah. Amazing. You said a phrase so good, having grace with yourself. Right. I think that's such a huge source of a lot of people's negative self-talk that, you know, you make a fool of yourself, you trip, you drop something, you know, whatever. And just that, that lack of grace and just being really judgmental towards yourself. I find that a lot of people will say, you know, like whether they're recovering perfectionists like I am or, or something like they just have like another excuse is I just have really high standards, you know, and like my, the standards for myself are, I don't think that's necessarily bad.

Right.

But there's such a seriousness that can come with that. Yeah, that if you, if you take everything so seriously and your expectations are so unreasonable for yourselves, especially perfection, like it's, it's in the name, it's literally impossible. So, so man, having that grace for yourself and being lighthearted, I've been attracted to people like that lately in recognizing because I'll admit, I take things way too seriously, especially with myself, even, even when I'm not expecting, but yeah, I know, shocker. When not expecting perfectionism for myself anymore. But there's still this, like, sometimes there's just this, this unnecessary serious undertone to things, you know, and realizing that you look at some people, there's this carefree nature to them, you know, because they are quick. They're not quick to judge. They're, they're, they just, they're having a good time and they're, but they're not lazy or, you know, not driven or not as— not aspirational or anything. It's, it's not like that. It's just that they—

Mm-hmm.

They realize they're like, yeah, man, if I mess up, it's fine because I'll just, I'll just try again or I'll fix it or whatever. Like, it's just, it's so cool. And so, yeah, I wanted to, I wanted to draw that thread out because, man, that's— having grace for yourself is so, so huge.

Yeah, it's, it's not the end of the world. Like, and that's what it took me 40 years to figure out. Like, I mean, I thought that if everything was detrimental to me, to my world, to the things around me, to the people I cared about. Like, if I messed up, like, I was a failure. Nobody, like, is going to want to be around me, whatever. Like, I was— it sounds selfish. Like, when you say it out loud and you really think about it, it sounds selfish. It's like, I'm not the center of the world. I'm not gonna be end-all be-all. Like, it's not going to affect the vast majority of things. It's funny because, like, Alex Hormozi has this perspective that he talks about sometimes, and he says, you know, think about this in the sense of like how people are going to view you when you're dead. Most people, when they die, 3 months after you're dead, anybody and everybody is going to move on unless they're super close with you. Like, your closest friends and family will still mourn your loss, but in 100 years after you die, it really isn't going to matter. To anybody. So who cares? So don't think that it's going to be this forever thing. Live in the moment. Get what that is like. Feel what you're gonna feel like if you're having those emotions, that, that negative self-talk. Take it, feel it, analyze it, ask questions. I love how you said be curious about it because I think curiosity is something we've lost. We could— that's a whole nother conversation for another day, but Being curious about yourself, about other people, but be curious about it and ask if it's true, if it's real, and how it's gonna benefit you.

Yeah, curiosity, that's a really good one. We'll pin that one. We'll pin that one for later. A couple more application details that I wanted to share. So for one exercise that I did in a discussion with a mentor, we had talked about what are the negative things that we do believe about ourselves and list them out. And again, they're pretty common, you know, and then write them in the affirmative of them not no longer being true, right? And I think that's, I think that's important. Because when I worked with, when I worked with a therapist, he actually encouraged, he's like, hey, I'd rather you write a goal in the, in the positive, not in the negative. So he's like, a good goal is, is a positive one, not a I will not do X or don't do X, right? He's like, I'd rather you say, Something in the in the in the inverse. He's like it has a it's it's a more powerful pull. I'm like all right cool. So for me writing those in the inverse was good and I I framed it. I had it in my office and that was good to read daily. So that's something that you can do really easy. Another one was I messaged people whose opinion I greatly valued and people that I respected that knew me. decently, right? Those people that they speak into your life, and you just totally blow them off. And you're like, okay, great. Those people that you think are either lying to you or don't know you, right?

Right.

And I messaged a bunch of those people, I want to say at least 15 of them. And I said, hey, I know this is— because you're typically messaging intentional humans. And so sometimes you may not get a response, because this is— if someone wants to actually spend the time to do it, it takes, it takes a second.

Yeah.

And so I said, hey, I would love to— I'm working on some stuff on myself. And I'd love to know how you see me in whatever way you want to articulate that. I don't want to put you in a box. But how do you see me? How do I add value to your life? You know, I'd love for you to share that with me. It can be a sentence, or it can be a paragraph, whatever, or a voice memo, whatever you want to do. And I got such rich answers, way more than I expected in in very unique directions that I didn't anticipate either. And my plan was I was gonna read it every day, but dude, this was like pages of stuff. I was like, holy smokes, I can't do this. So I admit I fed it into ChatGPT and I said, hey, can you give me like— because some people said things that were similar, which makes sense.

Yeah.

And so I said, hey, combine the themes that are similar. I want you to draw those themes out and then I want you to list them on a one page and I want to read it every day. So that was crazy. And the last one was, now our church did this, they gave us a bookmark of all the things God says about us. And I was like, that seems like a good thing to read. Uh, you can do this with ChatGPT. It's like, hey, uh, list me all the, the chapters and verses that, that speak into how God views us. It should get you, I mean, 80% of the way there at least. And that was something I read every single day. Now you're like, I don't know if there's any of that, any of that's gonna make a difference. You know, I, I was doing a ton of things at the same time. You know, maybe these are low yield. I don't think so. I think these are actually super powerful. And if you're, even if you're like, you know what, reading them, um, I would do it 2 ways. I would read them. I felt like reading them aloud had value, but it seemed cheesy. So sometimes I would highlight it and have my phone speak it aloud and I would just listen. And so those 3, man, like, So, so powerful. Do you have any that you, that you regularly did that were powerful?

So we talked about the gratitudes. That one was huge. But seeing how the Bible talks about you as a person is incredible too. Like that one for my own identity, because again, the words that you're saying to yourself are building that identity of who you are from a young age. And so you have to replace that identity. That you've built for you with something else. And so you can either do it with what other people say about you, good or bad. There's a dangerousness there because you can, you can replace that identity with negative— like the things you say negative about yourself, you can just keep on the negative things other people say about you and it just adds to it. But I love the idea of replacing that with what the Creator says about you. Like there's somebody who made You, and he made you for a purpose. He made you for a reason. You aren't a mistake. You're not meant to just walk aimlessly on this earth. And so replacing that fake, false identity or negative identity that you've created with something that is true is— I mean, it's a game changer. Again, back to the beginning, all you're doing is talking to the plant inside you. And feeding it with the positive things, the positive words of— it's like going into the room and speaking positivity to the plant. That plant is deep down inside you, and you got to make it grow. And the only one that can do that is you.

That's true. And, you know, I think that's, that's the final definitive point there, right? That nobody can do it for you. And I think anybody that wrestles with negative self-talk, view poor or negative false beliefs, you're, you're not going to be able to connect with people on that level, right? Like when they pay you those compliments, when they say the most genuine things about you that are true, right? It just, I think we all know that we get those moments and we're like, at that time, we're like, yeah, no, I don't think so.

Yeah.

So you're absolutely right. It falls on us to speak those words. And if it works on a plant, how much more than Yeah. You know?

Exactly. And you know, it's, it's one of those things where I don't want to discount mental illness like depression, anxiety, like chemical imbalances. I don't want to discount any of that. I was on antidepressants for a while because of the things that were going on in my head, but I can tell you that the freedom that you feel when you don't have to take that medicine, because Some people have to take the medicine. I get it. I'm not discounting it. But the freedom that you feel from your own mind in your own self when you have built an identity that can flourish and grow without the help of medication is the most freeing thing that you'll ever experience.

Yeah, it's, it's tough because, you know, we didn't even get into the neuroscience of it, you know, and that, I mean, that could be a whole nother episode talking about, you know, we know that the brain is plastic. We know that it can be changed. We know also that, you know, Neurons that fire together wire together. So it's going to be tough to move that, you know, like that illustration, that snowball across the net zero line and move it towards the positive. Like it is a, it is a battle of sorts, you know, of making that change because your brain, if your brain's thought a certain way for decades, I always tell people when I'm helping them and they get frustrated with, you know, plateauing or not making any progress or maybe not perceived progress, I'm like, hey, Be patient, have grace for yourself. Like, you've literally reinforced this way of thinking for 10, 20, 30+ years. And now all of a sudden you do gratitude for, you know, a week or two and you're like, I still hate myself. I'm like, okay. I mean, yeah, like, give it a second. Okay. For sure.

Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a rewiring for sure. And again, whole nother episode on what the brain does with that. Just know, like, the power of the words is one, in the truth that they are, right? So the truth has the power of recognizing what that is. And then two, the power of the spoken word, hearing it out loud and getting it into existence. Because there's, there's a whole, there's a whole realm of, of things in that. But like, when you hold something in, it's, it's the same with creativity, it's the same with like It's the same with all— when you hold that in, it stifles it. It— I mean, you're basically not creating anything with it. Like, and so letting it out, putting it out there, speaking those words into existence is just like back in the beginning, a form of creation into putting that thought into process, into action.

Man, it sounds like it almost sounds like it was all designed to be— I don't know, maybe not. It's crazy.

Take your ass to my house.

Awesome, Greg. Well, hey, Hey, it was awesome talking to you. And this is, this is why I like talking to you because it just, it just, man, such a blessing. I appreciate you.

Always a good time. I love it, man.

Yeah, we'll have to do it again.

Soon, I hope.

We'll figure it out.

I think so.

Yeah, for sure. All right, guys. Well, thanks for listening to the Optimizing Beyond podcast. Remember, growth happens when you take action. So subscribe, share this with a friend, and most importantly, put what you learned into practice. Because as we know, daily anything changes everything. Daily anything changes everything.