Three Life Lessons: The Three Things We Wish We Knew in Our 20s | Ft Ashley Negron

Welcome to the Optimizing Beyond podcast. I'm Josh Negron, and this show is all about sharing lessons, ideas, and strategies that sharpen your thinking, strengthen your habits, and push you to grow beyond comfort zones. Let's dive in. All right, and I am joined again by my lovely better half, Miss Ashley. Welcome again to the show.

Yeah, we had so much fun. We decided to do it again.

Yeah, why not? So for today's episode, we decided that we would address some of the things that we wish someone would have told us in our early days, like what would have made life easier, marriage easier, and navigating really a lot of things much easier. And so we had come up with 3 things that have been really impactful for us. And we'll just unpack those across this episode. And so hopefully they are useful to you as they were to us. And if you are in your 20s, that's awesome. You got to, you might get a head start. The first one that we'd like to unpack is, we've mentioned it before on the show, is assuming positive intent. Now, this is a, I'll give credit to Jonathan Dawson, a dear friend of ours, that mentor that has taught us this years ago. And it basically states that you are assuming that someone else has positive intent Definitely not negative intent when they do something that grinds against you that you don't fully understand. How has this concept helped you, Ms. Ashley?

Yeah, so I think for me, um, you know, in my college years and then into my early professional career, it was very easy to just assume the negative. I'm a more glass half empty kind of person by nature, and so it's— it can be so easy to just assume the worst possible option. Um, to always look at the bad side and, and realizing like how heavy that, that actually is to carry, um, and how exhausting and frustrating that it is all the time. Um, it just, it means then that you're living life in this constant state of frustration and like the world is out to get you. And I would say that that was definitely probably our mindset. Um, you know, In that way. And by assuming positive intent, it allows you the ability to not just jump to conclusions, first of all, and then to ask questions. I've learned this really, you know, you and I in our marriage, but also in a professional relationship, I've really seen this come to fruition, which is kind of where we learned this concept too, was through this training and mentorship that we had with Dawson. And it's to ask questions. Um, and say, hey, what can you tell me about X, Y, and Z? Hey, um, what were you thinking when you said this? Hey, what did you mean by this? Right? Instead of just jumping to that conclusion, you allow for the person to actually explain what they mean and then to find a path forward together and to explain like, oh, well, actually, I thought that you were gonna mean, or that you meant whatever. And it just takes away that muddy gray assuming. And you know what they say about assumptions. And so it definitely just really helps, um, helps in communication and in actually being able to understand what the other person is meaning and what— where they were headed. Or maybe it came out completely not the way that they intended, or didn't realize that you perceived it that way, or there's a million and 7 possibilities other than the fact that that person was intentionally out to hurt you.

Yeah, for sure. And this obviously applies in some of our closest relationships, like you said, both personal and professional. And something I want to highlight really quick is that, um, it is impossible to know what somebody's thinking, right? It is impossible to know certainly what their intent is. And a lot of times we forget that because we, we, we know what they're saying. We know what their actions are, but we don't always know the underlying thought pattern behind that. So because of that, it's easy to— we kind of have— the way I've heard it described before is we judge ourselves through our intentions and others through their actions. Like we have— it's like a cheat code for us. We know what we mean.

Yeah.

But we don't, we don't fully know what they mean. And that, that's a disadvantage in trying to judge others and what they're doing. And unfortunately, the only way to know for sure is like you said, we have to say something. We have to ask questions, which can, especially in the moment where if they offended you or triggered you or maybe rubbed up against a wound or some trauma from the past, even their own past behaviors, then you have, you're, you know, that challenge, right?

Mm-hmm.

Of bringing it up in an as calm way as you possibly can to ask those questions. How do you, how have you practiced that in the heat of moments? I mean, maybe when something rises up, how do you handle that? That's a good way.

Yeah. You know, I think it's just, it's repetition, right? Like you have to actually start putting in the work and you have to stop and remember that that's what you're trying to do. You have to make a conscious decision to not just jump to a conclusion. And it's so, so easy. I think just human nature, but also like, like you said, we project what we're thinking and feeling onto other people rather than— yeah, we just, it's so easy to do that, right? And so, um, I think you have to just be conscious, stop, and then just put in the reps. It's, it's like any other muscle. You have to work it and use it in order to build it and make it stronger.

That's so true. Yeah. And you're right that that boils down to the concept of we don't know their mind and the only way to And it's fitting, right, that communication's required to clarify and do those things. And my favorite question that Dawson taught, and you kind of hinted at it, and we've talked about it before on the show because it's so powerful, is the, when you said or did X, insert whatever that is here, it made me feel this way. So you get to, you get to say, you know, kind of, kind of how you're feeling in the, in that, in that regard. And then Is that what you wanted me to feel? Right? And so that question, when he introduced that, it was, it's, it's brilliant because if you, if you use the feeling language already, you're, you're creating that space to try to help them not get immediately defensive, right? You're like, I feel this way. And they're like, they can say, well, I'm sorry you feel that way.

Right.

So they get to kind of remove that, but then also by telling them What they're, you know, re-highlighting what they did or said, and then how it reflected back on you creates this kind of cause and effect where they understand that was a consequence of something I said or did. And then you get to give them an out and an opportunity to explain, which most often is not something that they did on purpose or did with bad intent.

Right.

So you get to ask that question in a way where it isn't accusatory, where you're getting around the defenses. And they get to go, no, not at all. This is, this is how I meant, this is what I did. And it can be a super powerful thing. Again, takes some practice in the heat of the moment to do, like you said. Um, but the more you do it, I would say like a lot of the things we talk about on this show, the optimization and the habit stacking, the more you do it, the more you get in the habit of making that pause, understanding most people that you care about aren't out to get you. And so with that foundational understanding over time, you're going to be able to ask these questions from my experience, a lot better, a lot easier. And sometimes you don't even have to have that conversation anymore because like we talked about last time, you can funnel those things through who you know them to be, who you know their character to be. And then you can have that internal dialogue, not stuffing it away, but actually processing it and going, you know what, this isn't even worth talking about because it This is, this is all in my head. Right. So on that very note, the second thing is these are all closely related and I think they're meshed together on purpose.

Right.

The second one is controlling your emotions, which I think can spike a lot of feelings in a lot of people if they hear that in a certain way. Credit for this one goes to another one of our mentors, Danel Delgado, an amazing person and friend. And so What comes to mind when you hear this and how have you, how have you experienced it from your perspective?

Yeah. So I think that this is going to sound crazy and very countercultural in that men and women have to control their emotions in 2 very distinct, different ways, right? As a female, if a female loses control specifically in a professional kind of a setting, she can be seen as dramatic or too much or over the top or too emotional, XYZ, whatever. I am a, um, red on the color code, which means, um, you know, very much like to be in control. I like to be in charge. I crave and thrive in power situations. I'm an 8 on the Enneagram. I'll take your pick of those things. I am all of those things. But as a female, what that means is that my initial emotion is anger. There is usually some kind of anger, frustration, kind of Boiling right under the surface is my natural state, right? And so as a female, and then even more so as a female who works in a male-dominant management team, I have to control my emotions very differently in order to not cause them to lose respect for me or to not know how to handle that, what to do with that. There are very few people on this planet who get to see The raw, real, emotional Ashley. And you, you just, you have to control it differently. That might mean that you are keeping as steady and calm and cool and collected as you can in that moment. And then the minute that you're out the room or you're in your office or you're in your car or you've closed the door to a different room, that doesn't mean that you don't have all of those emotions, but in front of those, in the middle, in the heat of those situations, you have to maintain control. Or unfortunately, A byproduct can be that the respect starts to slip for you. And then the next time it's like, oh, well, she's just, she's, she's a lot. Or my opinion starts to lose its, um, its punchiness, if you will. I, I'm not really sure the right phrase, but it can lose its—

The influence.

The influence. Yeah. Thank you. It can lose its influence because it's, it's, it's, uh, she's too much. She's too reactive. She's too whatever.

So on the other side of having practiced this for several years, how has this, how have you seen it benefit you? Obviously you've talked about the consequence of potentially not doing this. How have you seen it work in your favor?

Yeah. Um, one specific instance comes to mind and it's been a little while ago that this happened, but one of my employees and a salesperson kind of got into it on the showroom floor and shouldn't have. And it became a little bit of an ordeal. So much so that I knew in our next manager meeting that I needed to bring that specific situation up in order to say, hey, I heard about it. I handled it. I've resolved it. We've had a coaching and training moment. Here's what we did to fix it. Here's where we're headed forward. Here's the next kind of steps. And knowing that I couldn't just sweep it under the rug. And as we're getting into this conversation and I bring this up, the room is becoming more and more heated because We're a team of people that genuinely passionately care about our people and are standing up for our people and are wanting the best thing for our people and for the dealership, right? And so, you know, in this instance, the room is getting heated. And this particular time, I was able to maintain calm, even voice, ask some questions, reflect back, just stayed the most calm in the middle of something like that that I've ever been able to do. Um, and, and we resolved everything. Everything was great. And then, you know, a couple of days later, one of the managers came back to me and just said, hey, I'm, I'm really sorry for getting so upset. I shouldn't have handled it that way. Um, you know, I, I appreciate the way that you stayed calm and how you did all of that. And honestly, like, that was kind of a turning point for for, um, that, that working relationship with that other manager.

Mm-hmm.

And so, uh, you know, on the flip side of that, the, the upside was that I had some days to distance myself from the heat of the moment.

Mm-hmm.

And to really have like thought through and have my control of my emotions and to say, no, I, I've got this. Um, and, and not get overly defensive and not clap back and not all of the things that I normally would've done or just melted. 'Cause I don't think of quippy things in the middle of In the heat of the battle, right? In the heat of the moment. I think great things later.

Oh yeah, after the fact, right?

After the fact. Yep. What is it I told you the other day? Like, man, I should have said this and this and this, right? But because I had had a couple of days to think and process it through, that actually was to my advantage, right? I could distance myself a little bit from that. So I think there's also something to that as well in controlling your emotions is There's nothing wrong with saying, hey, I would like to discuss this the next time that we're together. And it gives you some time to step away and get some moments of clarity and then come back to the table and actually genuinely be in control of your emotions. Not like fake be in control of them, but genuinely have good control of them. Hmm.

No, I totally agree. It's— I'm glad you spoke to that side because obviously in your experience, um, that gives a little more clarity. And I don't know if I could have said those things as a, as a guy. So let me, let me do the same. Let me speak to the guys here. Like I always, you and I have this thing where we laugh about moments in movies where the male character gets really frustrated and then ends up destroying inanimate objects is usually the object of the, of the hilariousness.

Yeah.

One funny scene in the new Star Wars trilogy, you know, Kylo Ren's got the lightsaber, he gets really frustrated and he ends up like slicing up the entire room in a rage. And, uh, the 2 stormtroopers are kind of like, like, geez, right? And so, I mean, it was, it was made to be, you know, silly, right? And even sometimes when we're not in those moments, obviously you make, you make, you make comments after the fact, like, yeah, those, that's sometimes how that feels. Those moments are just kind of hilarious. Like, how does that help?

Do you feel better now? Yeah.

Do you feel better? Yeah.

Yeah.

How does that help the present situation? Right. And so I think, I think that's where, like, it occurs to me something like the concept of meekness, right? Where it's like power restrained or chaos under control, or maybe even what Jordan Peterson would describe like a monster under control, right?

Mm-hmm.

He, he has a lot that he says, and we don't have enough time to unpack it here, but just that there is an attractive quality of a man that is not weak and capable of good and terrible things, that a formidable man that is strong, terrifying, but also good. But also, I mean, so many images here, but it makes me think of the scene in, in The Chronicles of Narnia, where they find out about the character of Aslan and they're like, a lion? Like, that doesn't sound very safe. Is he safe? And I do believe it's the beaver character that says, safe? No, but he's good. Right? And so there's that concept there of that tension. And so when those things are under control, obviously often fueled by emotions, that's something that builds trust and attractiveness in a male, particularly builds trust in relationships and is something that can, can also build what I would say respect even, right?

Mm-hmm.

And, and like you said earlier, there are, there are people that you can be, I wouldn't say genuine with or transparent with because that makes it sound like you're suppressing or not being transparent and not being your true self. So I wouldn't say that. And I think that's how some people kind of feel that it is. I will say there's There should be a shortlist, a few amount of people, like you said, that get to see the raw, unprocessed emotions, because if not shared with the right people, can inhibit you from getting past those emotions, right? From processing them appropriately. Instead, they might fuel them in a wrong way, right? We've talked about that before. So by having those select people in your life, They kind of know the drill, right? Like they know to let you express what you're feeling. And then there's that balance of listening, but then also at some point, maybe reframing, maybe challenging your thinking, getting you out of that emotional state into the thinking state. Now, you said that you heard something very recently about how emotions work, right?

Yeah.

So on a very basic concept, emotions start in the brainstem, which is why we feel emotions first and so intensely. And then we might know that the cognitive thinking processes happen in the forward part of the brain, which is not the closest together. So—

No.

Talk a little bit about how that was expressed and help us understand like the difference between emotions and then thinking, like how do, how do we get to that thinking part?

Yeah, well, it actually, um, I don't remember all of the technical terms to all of the parts of the brain that they were talking about, but the reaction part is going to go through first. And that fight or flight kind of a moment. And then it makes its way to the front of our brain where actually the thinking and the responding happens.

And so I think you're talking about the limbic system, right? The fight or flight system.

That's right. Fight or flight system. And then it actually comes to the front, like the frontal cortex of the brain where we actually can do our thinking and our processing, right? And so that is where taking time and not just that first immediate Emotional response, right? There is a large difference between our feelings and our thoughts. Tim Grover talks in his book about winning about the difference between your thoughts and your feelings, right? Like your thought is, I'm going to get out of bed and I'm going to go to the gym. My feelings say, I'm gonna just stay and sleep, right? My thoughts say, oh, it's no big deal. Just have one more piece of cake or pie. But my Thoughts, right? But, or my, my feelings are gonna go, oh, but that's gonna taste so good, right? So it's, we have to stop and go, what is a feeling versus a thought? And our feelings are little liars, right? Like, they are deceitful. They will wreck your life if you're not careful.

They're also like one-dimensional, right? Like, right. And so, so even if, even if, you know, We don't fully accept the whole, they're lying to you, which sometimes they do, but sometimes they just don't see the full picture, the full perspective, right?

Correct. Yeah, that, that too. And so that when we allow them to take control, we have an ability to cause potentially, there goes my black and whiteness that I talked about earlier, potentially cause a lot of harm to ourselves and to other people and to relationships. And so, you know, it is, is so important. to differentiate between your thoughts and your feelings, which surprisingly enough actually kind of leads us into our next one, which is cool.

It does. They're all tied together. Before we do that, I love the, the how you touched that. So I want to highlight that, that basically what you describe, what you're describing is processing your emotions, right? And so, and so exploring those emotions, we're not talking about burying them, hiding them, ignoring them, because that That doesn't work. But allowing it to get to that front side to think about why you feel a certain way, then does that, like we talked about in point 1, does that mean I need to talk to somebody? By thinking through it, did you get to the other side? Did you get some clarity? Do you now know how to respond versus react? If not, then what's the— what's— what's— do you need to talk to someone to see if you're— see if you need a reframe or perspective change? Or do you need to have a conversation with somebody to get some clarity? Right?

Right.

So yes, absolutely. That does lead us to the 3rd and final one for today. And that is controlling the 2nd thought. Now this sounds almost very similar and in some ways it is. And credit to this one goes to another dear friend and mentor, Glenn Lundy.

Yep.

The host of Rise and Grind and so many other things. And the idea is that the first thought is most often set in stone. Like, it's a reactive thought that you have. Sometimes, let's face it, you have intrusive thoughts, like thoughts that you're like, where did that come from? I'm not even aware of where that came from. And then you could even label some of them as like temptations, right? It's thoughts out of nowhere or maybe from somewhere else. And so there are times where arguably you have no control over the first thought, right?

Right.

It's that impulsive thought where you're like, wow, I'm glad nobody's in my head right now because that's worse than a dark meme. Okay.

Right.

And so, so he says, stop trying to control the first thought because that feeds all sorts of things. Like, like if you already don't view yourself very highly, then first thoughts can really mess you up. Right.

Right.

So he's like, stop trying, stop obsessing about controlling the first thought because you can't. What your responsibility is, is to control the second thought.

Second thought.

Do you, do you fix that thought? Do you adjust it or do you just roll with it? Right. And so, um, can you, can you tell, can you tell us how this, uh, this has been applicable in your life?

Yeah. Like I mentioned earlier, it's so easy to jump to conclusions and these, these 2 things are so interwoven together. The cool thing is that as you begin to work on one, the next one kind of becomes easier, right? You start with assuming positive intent and you start controlling your emotions. Then it becomes so much easier to control the second thought. Which I love that they're all, they're all woven together and they're kind of this progression of, of growth and maturity as you begin to work on these things and they become part of the forefront and the things that you're thinking about. You know, it's so easy to jump to conclusions and to assume the worst. And so by controlling that second thought, we stop that, um, we stop that first, keep us grounded. It's so easy to fixate on that first thought if we don't allow ourselves to go to the second one and then control the second one, right? Um, it— this is where when we react to that first thought that we can really do some damage in our relationships, right? When we just knee-jerk react, right?

It—

that's, that's where we're unkind and we're hurtful and unintentionally so.

But we've Mm-hmm.

Controlled those emotions and, and moved on to that second thought. And it really does come with practice and growth and maturity. It also happens, I think, too, with not allowing ourselves to feel overwhelmed. You know, that for me has played a large part into controlling my emotions, is to not allow that overwhelmed sense to set in. You know, today was the first day back after, after being on vacation and back at work and, and, and taking on new things in a different role, and it could have been so easy. Old me would have immediately walked in and been overwhelmed, had a headache, been stressed out all day long. And I went, I'm not gonna do that. I made the conscious choice today to control my thoughts and my emotions and to not let the day overwhelm me. Right. And so I think for me, that's the practical play out of, of these things is that, you know, I could manage today and I could come home not completely and utterly exhausted. Um, 3, even 3 years ago, me would have just been emotionally wiped, worth nothing, just done today.

Mm-hmm.

But because of learning to put these things into practice and not letting my emotions run rampant today and controlling second thoughts and not getting overwhelmed. I had a very productive day and I got a lot done, but wasn't ever emotionally out of control or didn't ever respond even to, to my coworkers and to my peers in a manner that reflected those emotions, even if they were going on inside just a tiny little bit. And so today was a very practical application of these things as well. And so just, it was, it's cool to reflect back and go, oh no, you have come a long way. Which is, which is fun.

Yeah, no, for sure. And I, as you were describing how this can affect your, your external relationships, I was reflecting on how it can affect your view of self too, right? So for, for some people, they're like you where they don't struggle with as an overarching thing, like self-confidence and self-loathing is not something that they're familiar with. And, and, but for some people like me, that's, that's part of, that's part of my story, right? And so for, for me, the first thought a lot of times was in relation to something negative about myself, right? Um, and so there's that, there's that idea of like how many people say things to themselves or about themselves, whether it's out loud or in their head, that dialogue is so much more aggressive.

Yeah. We are so mean to ourselves.

Right. We're so mean to ourselves. And I mean, you and I have talked about that too. And so what I thought about is controlling that second thought. When you think of things like negative self-talk, right, is a, is a, is a perfect thing that I love talking about and how for me addressing that, I started doing it. I had so many negative self-thoughts that I didn't know how to stop them. I was like, how do you stop thousands and thousands of thoughts a day? And I didn't really know of a way. And so the only thing I knew how was I was like, well, I say fewer out loud. So at least if I can stop saying them out loud with the spoken word, which you and I both believe has immense power, right? Immense power. And so I was like, well, if I can at least stop saying them out loud, then, you know, we're getting somewhere. It's better. And so what I found was, is especially after recruiting my friends like you and my best relationships, which are more than happy to, to Uh, to, to call you out when you give them permission is, is I was like, well, now that I'm not saying them out loud, I started actually catching some of the thoughts. I was like, well, this is kind of unexpectedly cool. And, and so what I was actually practicing was capturing that second thought and going— Mm-hmm.

Yep.

And one, you know, you may ask like, well, how, how do you practically do this? Well, it's a lot of times when that first thought is a lie or some sort of distortion, it's going to be tough for you to, to refute that unless you have a truth to go in its place, right?

Correct.

So when someone does something like we talked about in the first one, and let's say I already know what, what, you know, what it's going to be, I already know the truth behind it, I don't need to go and have a conversation with that person, then I'm going to take that lie, that first thought, and say no and replace it with The second thought, which I have control over, and replace it with the truth, right? And so I can defeat that lie by replacing it with the truth. And so I want to leave the audience in this point with 3, 3 ways you could do that with the second thought. Are you accepting the first thought?

Hmm.

Are you adjusting that first thought? Like, does it just need a perspective change? Does it just need a tweak? Or are you rejecting it, right? Are we saying, No, that is not true. I know that's not true because of whatever, and replace it with that truth. Right. And so this can be so powerful, but if, if someone, I want to be clear that if you don't do anything, then it's going to, the first thought's going to win by default. Right. And so it's just going to, you're just going to roll you over.

Correct. Yeah. I think it's also important, like you talked about, you know, having to replace the lie with a truth. It's important to know what you believe about who you are, you know, and have that written down, right? Like, write down what it is that you bring to the table. Write down the good things that you bring to relationships, to friendships, to your job, right? That, that was one of the exercises that Danelle had us do. And to realize, like, I, I bring more to the table than I think that I do. But you have to have thought about and have something to combat that with, right? And then even more so, Another step of that is if, if you are a believer, to know who God says that you are and have that and have the truth to refute the lie. You can't just bat that away without something to replace it with and hope to be successful in continually being able to replace that lie with the truth without something to combat it. And so, you know, make that list, know what you bring to the table, know What the attributes are that have been given to you. No, you know, I know you did an exercise even that you asked friends and family to say, hey, what is it that you appreciate about me? And then you would read those and look at those and have those truths when those lies popped in, when those first thoughts came about, so that you could quickly and more easily combat them.

Mm-hmm.

And like you said, over time, we all watched as your confidence grew and you became more settled in who you were, and you could to see yourself for the way in which that we saw you, right? But you had to know the truth and you had to learn to believe it and to tell yourself over and over again so that you did. And so I think that's one of the practical ways that you can capture that second thought. If that's something that you're struggling with is an internal first thought, not external, is to know the truth of who you are.

That is so powerful. And I think that's a perfect summation of what, of what you can use to implement all 3 of these. Like, like we talked about it, they're, they're all related. They're, they're very closely tied. And so choose one to start tackling, and you'll notice how, how they're weaved in together, and you're actually working on more than one at a time while, you know, learning. You, throughout your day, you're going to get multiple opportunities for all 3 of these, right?

Yeah.

And in assuming positive intent in someone and what they're doing, whether it's, you know, You getting amped up about something and get an opportunity to do some breathing exercises to calm down those emotions.

Yep.

Right. Which is very, a very effective way, like without getting into the neuroscience of craziness, like breathing exercises actually resets the limbic system. So if you are, if you are freaking out and the amygdala fight or flight is going nuts, some deep breathing in a very short time space can reset that circuit and get you back to baseline, lower your heart rate, all sorts of nerdy stuff. I love it. And then the, and then the last one, controlling that second thought. Uh, stop obsessing about what that first thought is and how it makes you feel about yourself or others and realize that that first thought is out of your control. It's going to be there. And, uh, and maybe, maybe in the future we can reverse engineer, but from the very, very start, that first thought's there. Accept it, figure it out. Accept that it's there is what I mean. Not accept the thought itself. And then analyze it. Like we said, are you going to accept it? Are you going to adjust it? Or are you going to refuse it? Right? Are you going to reject it? Yeah. And I think that's, that's a good, it's a good place to end it. I appreciate you joining us today. And as always, thanks for listening to the Optimizing Beyond podcast. Remember, growth happens when you take action. So subscribe, share this with a friend, and until next time, keep moving forward.

Bye.

Moving forward, because as we know, daily anything changes everything.