The Cost of Fitting In: when your kid falls into the wrong crowd

In today's episode, I invite you into my real-time coaching session with a mom of a 6-year-old who's suddenly getting into trouble at school after falling in with a friend group that is not making the best choices. Welcome to the Parent Coaching Chair podcast. I'm your host, Julie Fragnito, and your partner in parenting. Here we'll talk with real parents about their real moments. Come along as we grow from each other's experiences and receive practical, high-structure, high-nurture tools that you can use to lead confidently at home. If you're finding yourself watching your child get pulled in a direction that doesn't align with your family's values, and you're not quite sure how to guide them back without pushing them away, this conversation you'll want to hear.

So my son is 6, he's about to turn 7. This is his first year in a new school, in a public school. So, um, you know, since he was 2, he was in a private Montessori. And so this is a big change for him, big changing year, and I've learned, I guess, over the last 6 months that he's been hanging out with some of the kids in his class that I would say aren't making the best choices, and it's sort of influencing him. So I think he's very much a social butterfly and he likes to get along with everyone, but he's probably being geared towards some behaviors, uh, of these kids that we're not loving. And so we're starting to see some problems at school.

Tell me a little bit about those problems. What is it specifically that you're seeing that you're not happy about?

So I think the certain group that he hangs out with definitely tend to pick on some other kids, and my son, he's around these kids, so he's seeing that behavior. And even if he's not the one actively engaging in it, he's also there by proxy, getting in trouble, getting called to the principal's office, and sort of picking up that tone and that behavior, which we're not okay with. So he's never been physical per se, um, with, with any of the kids, but he's definitely involved in this or being around and not stopping it.

It's really hard to watch your kid get pulled in a direction where you're like, that's not my kid, this doesn't feel like them, this has never happened before, what is going on? Tell me a little bit about what you've done.

We know our son very well, and I know as a mom, like, this isn't him, this isn't how he is. He's usually very happy-go-lucky, very like wants to just play with everyone and have a good time. So when I hear these things from the school and he's getting in trouble, it's just so unlike him. It's just no one has ever had this comment about my son, um, from any of the teachers he's ever had in the Montessori or even from the before and aftercare. So it definitely hurt when we heard this. And so we sat down, we do a lot of conversation about, um, you know, the choices that we make in friends, what is a follower, what is a leader, what it means to be those things, what choices does he want to make, that he doesn't have to follow the crowds. We read a lot with our son, so we're very intentional now about the books that we're choosing. So I've, you know, picked books about kindness, about what do we do when we have a problem, you know, things like that. So he can also understand that it's not just him, he's not alone, and we're here to help him, and that he, he can make his own decisions and he can choose what he wants to do and make the right choices. So that's what we've been doing. The problem is at home it's fine. It's once he goes to school, it's out of my control. And what I'm finding is I think he feels like he wants to be surrounded by these kids because he doesn't want to feel alone. And lately this is sort of what I've been thinking is that because he's seeing how they might be picking on other kids, It's almost like better to be on their side as their friend than the one getting picked on, which is really hard for a 6. They don't understand what that means and those feelings. So he's probably just aligning himself because he thinks it's better to be friends with them than to not be friends with them. I feel like we're trying a lot here. We've had lots of conversations with the school, but I don't know that necessarily what they're doing is helping. And I just, I don't know where to go from here.

Thank you. One of my favorite parts of doing this work is that you know your kids so well. All the things that you're saying, even down to the patterns that you're finding of, I think I know why he's doing this. And that's amazing. That is like more than 50% of the battle to be like, hey, I think it's actually a fear, which is very interesting, right? I think it's actually fear of him not wanting to be on the other side because of how toxic this feels for him in this classroom. And so he's kind of just surviving. And I think that is really profound for you to kind of dig deep into that. I also hear that you are doing great things at home, and I want to mention that first and foremost, that I can hear how intentional you and your husband both are with having these conversations of what makes a good friend, what makes a follower, what makes a leader. Children's books, they're one of our best tools to making situations real. And I think that all of these these things are gonna go a long way, even if they are not sticking immediately. It's about us sticking with it. I think that that's really a great start, and I think you're doing great things. So I have a couple of practical tools, and I'm also gonna equip you with a little bit of understanding while I go through some of those tools. So let's jump in to the overall mindset. To understand what he's really going through. He is not choosing bad behavior. He is choosing connection, survival, comfort, and it's our job to make sure that he doesn't have to lose himself to get those things. So that's kind of like the mindset that I want you to envision when you are approaching this as his leader, that I don't want you to lose yourself to find the things that you are seeking. And so the real question is, what is he seeking? And in this case, to me, it sounds like he is seeking friendship, he is seeking belonging, he is seeking comfort in a way. Like the example you had given where he'd rather be on the bully side than the kids that are getting bullied, because that's gonna save him, right? It's comfort. He is also seeking and maybe lacking confidence. We need a certain level of confidence and awareness to recognize these things and then step up to it. Because to me, all the things that you're doing are building awareness, building awareness, building awareness. But awareness can only go so far. Once we have that awareness, we need to develop confidence to be able to stand up to it and to make a change and to do something different.

So that's actually really interesting once you were saying that, and I, I think that makes sense because I think he is aware because we have been talking about this even before he made these friends. I have always had that conversation with him about the choices in friends really is, um, important because it It influences you. It can impact your life. So we need to be very mindful about the friends. I said you have to be nice to everyone, but you have to be very careful who you let in to become your friend. And so when you— when you say that about the confidence thing, I think that makes so much sense. It is like he does want friendship. He does want to belong. And he is aware of these things, but he doesn't know what to do next with it, right? Or he doesn't feel ready to do that because he'll never go— tell a teacher. You know, even when we ask him, we really have to pull teeth trying to get information out of him. Not that tattletale-like mentality. I don't know why. At home with his younger brother, they tattletale on each other all day long, but with school, not, not at all. I can't get anything. And I always say, I'm like, go get a teacher if you can't do it.

This is tough stuff, and this is just the kind of stuff that our kids are going to experience, whether they're this age or in middle school or in high school. And the best thing we can do is just stick by them. So I think you're doing great stuff. I hear where you're coming from. I'm going to jump in with 3 practical things that are coming to mind now to address those adjectives that we were talking about.

Okay.

So the first thing is important. We want to be sure, because this contributes to building confidence, that we are building belonging at home first. And right now, I want you to think of it as he's outsourcing his sense of belonging to his peers. So what is our job as parents? It's to fill that tank before he walks into that school. We don't want him to feel like he needs to find belonging because he is so grounded in who he is and where he's coming from. Now, that's a tall order, so I'm gonna break that down for you practically. I love all the conversations that you're having about what a good friend looks like, and you should be kind to everybody, but you don't have to be best friends with everybody. But the real question is, how often are we talking with him about who he is and about what we as a family stand for? And so by shaping identity, we want to build a strong sense of who he is at home. How can we do this? Creating small daily moments of connection. I'm not talking big moments. You have more than one kid, I get it. But 5 to 10 minutes of undivided moments with him. No phones, no multitasking, letting him lead the play, letting him lead the conversation, which will tell him, "I matter, I'm seen, and this is a place where my nervous system feels safe. This is the place where I want to be and where I know exactly who I am." Another thing that you could do is make sure that you're giving him meaningful roles in the family. He's entering that age where we can start sprinkling in accountability, responsibility. And I'm not just talking about like his chores, like pick up your clothes on the floor, but I'm talking about, hey, can you be in charge of setting the table? You are in charge of feeding the dog 2 nights every week and you are our official pet feeder, whatever it might be. We want to build our kids up with things that make them feel essential to our household. This is your role. This is your job. We depend on you for this. And it could be the easiest thing so that it can't turn into a power struggle and it can't turn negative. I don't care how small you have to make it for him to attain it. You are in charge of the napkins on the table every night. How hard is it to put 4 or 5 napkins on the table? Just so that you could build his confidence up. Thank you so much. That was so helpful. You can go back outside and play. Right. And just making little moments of ownership in his day that will build confidence. The last piece of building confidence that I think plays a really big role is always remembering to reflect who they are out loud. Whether you're talking to your husband across the dinner table about him while he's sitting right there, I want you to call out his strengths in character in the normal everyday moments. So keeping it positive, building up his momentum. Hey Dad, you're never gonna believe what I saw him do today. He was doing this with his brother and then he cleaned it all up and he came and got me right away. He is so 'Awesome, that is so responsible.' It could also be, 'Can I just tell you something? When you are in this house, it just feels so joyful. You make everything so fun in this house. You bring such an energy that I love. When you're at school all day, I'm like, oh, I miss that energy. And then you come and you, you brighten up my house,' right? And just reminding him what he is at his core, that is how we build that identity piece and that confidence piece to really hit home on him knowing and believing that he matters.

Yeah, I really like the roles and the responsibility, right? We get— they have their own little chores that they have to do, but not like, like make their own beds and, you know, put away their clothes. But I like that idea of like giving him his own individual task because he does really like to take leadership roles, like he likes to be given tasks and he likes to do it. So I think that that's actually a great idea that I didn't even think about implementing. And it's actually good because I can give each— his younger brother is only 2 years younger than him, so they're very close in age. They can do everything, like give each of them their own tasks so they see it as like their own responsibility.

Yep.

So I love that. But I think the second thing, like about, you know, the reflecting on him, I think we don't do enough of that. I think we talk about all of those actions of others and how we can be with others, but never about him. And I think what I've realized is because of all of these issues that have happened, we have been harder on him because it's been frustrating for my husband and I to get those calls. And so I know we've been harder on him and it's made me feel really bad because I always say, no matter what you do, we're gonna love you and we're gonna be here for you. But I think I haven't made the link between saying that and him feeling it by like reminding others that he is doing other great things and that that's just one part of the day. So I really like that. I am definitely going to think of ways to do that more.

Thank you. That was so beautiful. The way that you just said that you are saying it, but you're not sure that your actions are lining up with that.

Wow.

Yeah, that is like the ultimate awareness of a parent, right? And we all have been there. And maybe that's why you saying that gave me the chills. We wonder at night, right? I'm saying it, but am I showing it? Am I modeling it? Am I proving it? Yeah, you are in a very hard place right now, so it's very easy to be negative. And it really hit home that you said he loves leadership roles. Well, that's perfect. We want him to be a leader, so let's point out every moment that he is a leader. Give him a high five, make it a huge deal, and be like, you are amazing. That's what it takes to be a true leader, and it takes a big heart And it takes a strong mind and you have those things. We don't want to make it like we're trying to make him someone he's not. He has it. He just has to know how to access it. So moving into the second practical tool is to allow his brain to have a plan and rehearse it all the time. And I think you're doing a good job with that, with books. And the conversations of what makes a good friend. But my question, and this is the child development question in me from being a teacher, is, is he making that connection? Is he able to make that connection? And what I mean by that is, this is what it means to be a good friend. These are the traits that it takes. Well, what are we making his brain do by doing that? We're giving him a checklist. So he's like, yeah, okay, sounds good. That makes a good friend. But can he now go into an environment where he feels maybe not that safe from a nervous system perspective and analyze the traits of all the people around him with that checklist and then say, um, oh, you don't fit that list, you don't fit that list, you don't fit.

Okay.

Uh, this person fits that list. Let me go over there and be with this person. It feels like a lot.

And I don't know if it's just my center, the age, but I feel like he's so naive to it, like, because he's just coming from a place of like, I want to have fun with these guys. Like, he just wants to play soccer or play games or do activities with them that I don't think he's correlating. Yeah, I know what makes a good friend, but are these guys good friends? Like, are they hitting those checkboxes? I don't know if it's that he's not able to, but he's definitely not doing it.

Yep, yep. And that is perfectly developmentally accurate, and that's what I wanted to hear you say, because it's I mean, it's a lot for an adult to do, right?

Right.

Caught up in a conversation with somebody and then you leave the conversation, you're like, ooh, that didn't feel that good. I don't know why that person said that or what they did, but I just agreed with them, or I went along with that, and now I feel like a terrible person because I don't know why I agreed with that, or I got sucked into the gossip. And then we feel awful. But do we know what makes a good friend and a good person? Yeah, on paper. But is it easy for us to do when we're actually in the moment?

No.

So what can we do to really bring this down to his age level? And how do we actually make this practical for him to hold on to? So in the moment, his brain is not thinking. It's not able to process that much at once, just like ours can't. So he's just reactionary, right? It's like after the fact, he gets home and he's like, oh yeah, yeah, you're right, I ended up in the principal's office. Well, I don't know how that happened, right? Just like how we can get caught up like that. And so instead of telling him what not to do, it's important to always equip our kids with literal steps for them to do and keep it really simple and repeatable. When you get information, whatever information you do get, I want you to say things like, when at that point did it start to feel uncomfortable? Or maybe you didn't notice in the moment, but let's think about it now. Right? He asked you to do this, then he, he made fun of this kid, and then he did this, and you were kind of standing nearby, and then you got roped into it, right? That's the moment. I want you to almost like pretend you're mapping it out on a piece of paper. Maybe you are drawing it for him. And then say, once that happens, where you start to feel like the person is picking at somebody else or says something unkind that might hurt somebody else's heart, I want you to just say, I'm gonna go play over here. Can you practice that? I'm gonna go play over here. Okay, now let's act it out. Dad is doing this and he's gonna start making fun of little brother and I'm joining in because I'm part of the group and you're like, ooh, I don't like this and then make him do it. I'm gonna go play over here and make it fun. Laugh about it. Don't make it so heavy. Don't make it so serious and be like, that was awesome. 'You've got this. You can do it.' Notice the lines that I'm giving you are so simple, just something he can remember. 'I'm gonna go play over here,' or 'No thanks, I don't want to.' Something easy. It could just be, 'I have to go ask the teacher a question,' right? We need to create little pathways for him to start getting his body out of those moments, because until he has something that he can recall and confidently remember, then he can't actually try to get himself away. So the first step is equipping him. Keep it light, keep it playful, and you could even let him know, hey, if this happens again tomorrow, that's fine. We're gonna get through this. We are going to keep practicing until you've got this, and I know you will get it. This is not gonna feel easy, it's gonna feel hard, but the more you do it, it will feel easier. Recognize not just that you're giving him a plan, but that when he starts making these tiny steps towards following that plan, we celebrate. Even if he ends up in the principal's office again next week, I want you to highlight his progress. Like, okay, you did it really well at home. That was awesome, right? I know it's so hard to do in social settings at school. I had a hard time as a kid. Maybe you have a story, a personal story about something that happened to you or your husband. This is really tough stuff, but you're gonna get it. And so you're practicing those lines. You're not trying to control him and his choices in those moments, which is what a lot of focus on the children's books and the lines and what makes a good friend do, right? It's like, you're gonna make a choice like that kid, right? And you're gonna do that, right? And then they're just like, oh my gosh, this is overwhelming. But instead, we're actually showing him that it's within him.

Yeah, I like those suggestions, those words. I definitely think that I'm gonna go play over here or I'm gonna go get a drink of water are easy for him. I think it's hard because is— I know you're going to go into it, but not only is he hard to get information out of, but as a boy, I find like talking about his feelings— no different than his father— it's like very hard for them to talk about that. Like, what did you feel when that happened? Like, how did— like, what were you feeling inside? His go-to answer of like any time where he like acts out is frustration. That's his underlying defense mechanism. He always says, I was feeling frustrated, but I I can't get anything beyond that. So sometimes when I talk about like, well, how did that make you feel? Or what can we do in those situations where you feel something's uncomfortable? I don't know how to get him to understand what that means.

Awesome. So that is my next point. And I'm so glad that you said that because as a teacher of all boys for 8+ years in middle and high school, I know exactly what you're talking about. The last piece is that we want to try and get through to him and debrief without shame. I know, and I hear in your questions that you're trying to be curious, you're trying to get to his feelings and the core of what's going on, but it's like we're hitting a roadblock. And what I want you to do is recognize that after a hard day, or when he knows, oh, I did it again, or it happened again. It's hard enough for him to maybe get in that car after school and see you. It's hard for him to come into the house and be like, oh God, I know what I'm gonna get. I know what my parents are gonna say. We're gonna have a whole conversation about this. And we want to make sure that we're coming from a place of neutrality and curiosity and separating him from the behavior that he's doing. I know this now from you sharing is that feelings, quote unquote, are hard for him. And that's very normal of a 5, 6, 7, 8-year-old— that girl, boy, it doesn't matter— feelings are hard to talk about, and they're not always that obvious for kids. It's interesting that he has the out of saying like, frustrated. I was frustrated. I'm just telling you, like, Mom, I have no idea. I don't know what you're asking me, right? And so what we want to recognize is that when we are asking questions, the feelings talk can come like tomorrow. We don't have to talk about feelings. We can't talk about feelings until our kid has a clear picture of the moment. And you know what? We can't do that either as adults. We have a quicker processing time now that we're older, and we're like 'Oh, I was in an uncomfortable situation and this person said this and I didn't like how that felt and then it made me frustrated,' or 'Then it made me feel really icky inside and I got super anxious and I was worried about—' That takes like ninja work to be able to do that. Our kids can't do that yet. We have to get them there. So baby steps look like walking him through the facts. That's it. I don't want you to focus on feelings. I want you to focus on facts. Very neutrally, whether it's that you got an email home, a call home. I want you to approach it with all of the information that you have first. It totally disarms our kid when they walk into our house after making a mistake at school and we know the whole story already because they don't have to tell us the whole story. We know it. And that is so comforting because think about how scary that is to know as such a good kid that he messed up. He ended up in the principal's office. And now my mom— I'm going to walk into my house or my dad's going to approach me and he's going to say, what happened at school today? And so even by asking that question, it can totally shut our kids down.

Like, yeah, we're guilty of it. Yeah. No, we're guilty of it. Yeah. We want him to come forward with it sometimes and he doesn't.

That's right. And that is a totally normal nervous system response. We need to build that comfort first. We need to earn our kids coming to us and just spitting out all the truth. How do we earn that? By building up their trust in us. So we have to stop with the interrogation style and start with the, hi, I love you. I'm so happy you're home. I heard about a couple of things that happened at school today. In about 5 minutes, we could sit at the table and chat about it. You could have a snack first if you want, but in 5 minutes we're gonna chat. Or we could chat about it right now, you let me know. So what you're doing is you're getting his brain ready. My mom knows she wants to talk. Now we sit with him. Maybe he wants to talk right away, maybe you don't want to give him that choice. That's totally up to you. And you just say, this is what I know. The principal called. I heard that this was going on. There was a group of kids that were kicking somebody's backpack, and then that kid got upset, and sounded like you were in the group but not the one who said it, and it sounds like you were nearby, and you guys were outside, I'm pretty sure, and whatever you know. And I want you to be very neutral. I want you to be humble. I don't want you to be this leader that's like, well, what happened? You have to tell me, you were there, right? Because it's just creating more of this not safe feeling for him. So if we can't make him feel safe at home and he's not feeling safe at school, well, he's lost. And that's what's contributing to this. So when he does walk through that door, it's just say everything you know and act a little humble about it. Like, and I think that's what they said, and I'm pretty sure they said you were next to this kid, but 'Maybe you were behind it. I'm not really sure. Do you remember anything about it? Is my story right? Is that what happened?' And even if he says, 'Yep, that's what happened,' and he doesn't give you any more, well, that's a great start because now he's like, 'Ah, my mom knows.' Now we can ask him neutral questions about the facts, not about his feelings. We're not going to jump in with a lesson about who he is, what friends are, what friends should do, why he's in the wrong place at the wrong time. We are just going to get information. And you want to know what's really powerful in this moment? And it's really, really hard for parents to do, including myself, when we want to hold our kids to high standards and make sure they're coming to tell us things and keep them accountable and make sure they're growing up by the right rules and good values. We need to humble ourselves by looking him right in the eye after spitting all that out and saying, 'Oh, that sounds so scary and overwhelming. Do you need a hug?' Because what that does in that moment is it lets him know that you still believe in the good kid in there and that you haven't decided that you're gonna let his bad moment define who he is. It shows as his leader that you are so confident that that's not who he is. And think about how powerful that really is. I love that.

I definitely know that we have not been doing that. I think the frustration has really gone because he gets home before I do. My husband gets him, so they're home before I get home from work. And when I get those emails, and especially since they've been so constant lately, as I'm coming home, I'm getting more and more frustrated. Like I'm already thinking about How many times have we had this conversation? Like, why is he making these choices? I'm not doing any favors because my frustration's then showing as soon as I walk in that door. I don't even give him the breath to explain. I'm already like asking 100 questions or going really hard on him about like, why is this happening again? So I think I really like the idea of like, I love you. How was your day? I did hear about a couple of things. We'll chat about it once I'm, you know, done changing or getting I like that because it gives me a moment to sort of breathe as well and not be so frustrated when I come at it or like when we have the conversation.

Yeah. Yeah. So much of it comes from our own angst, right? It's like, I can't believe this is happening and I need to stop this and I need to stop it now. And that level of urgency actually perpetuates these things. Even if it does happen again, like 8 more times in the next 2 weeks, You have to be— your husband has to be a steady, reliable source where he's gonna say, oh, I know I'm not gonna be in huge trouble, I'm not gonna have to shut down, I can tell my mom anything. And when we create that level of trust, well, that adds to all those things we were talking about at the beginning— his confidence, his belonging, his friendship. His ownership, because now he has someone to talk about this with. Think about why you're here right now, because when we talk about our struggles with somebody, they make so much more sense. So think about that. He needs somebody to talk about this with, somebody who's not going to judge him, somebody who's going to say, I still believe in you, I still believe the good in you, we're gonna find it, we're gonna get there. You're gonna try this tool today, and I know you can do it. Now, don't dive into the, did it feel bad? Did it feel worrisome? Did you feel like this was scary? Stay away from that word. We need to rebuild his trust. We just want facts. Oh, okay. Is that the kid with the black hair that you're talking about or the brown? Easy toss-up questions that he can't get wrong, that he can't mess I love this.

I actually, I think it helped me understand, especially when you said if we're coming at him and we're not, if we're not that space where he can feel belonging, then of course he's going to resort to finding friends where he is going to feel like that belonging and that comfort. And so that was really an eye-opener for me because now I see it full circle and I think like, no, I have to, we have to do a better job of making him feel safe here. He does feel safe because I know like obviously he he has that moment after school where he does that like breakdown, you know, he's been holding it together all day and then he comes home all frustrated and like lets it all out on us. And I understand that, but I think you're right, he closes off because he knows, he thinks he's gonna get in trouble by us or that we're gonna be disappointed and upset and whatnot if he gets in trouble. And so he shuts down immediately. And so I think like those suggestions are really helpful and Definitely something we're gonna try to implement.

As we wrap up, remember this: your child isn't choosing bad behavior. They're trying to find connection, safety, and belonging. And when those needs feel uncertain, kids will often go along with whatever's around them. Your role isn't to control every situation. It's to become the place where they feel grounded enough to make different choices. Over time. That happens through consistency, connection, and small moments at home that remind them of who they truly are. Thank you for joining me in the Parent Coaching Chair. Keep leading your home with high structure and high nurture, and I'll meet you back here next week. Please know that your experience here matters to me. Your ratings and reviews help this podcast reach to more parents who need this message. If this episode helped you, please leave a rating or review and please follow my show on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It really helps. If you're looking for more support, you'll find classes and practical guides over at my website, www.transformingparenthood.com. And podcast listeners can use the code PODCAST15 at checkout for 15% off my Mastering High Structure, High Nurture course, my signature systematic approach to raising cooperative and emotionally skilled kids.