When Your Child Blames You Argues and Says Hurtful Things

In today's episode, I sit down with a mom of a 5-year-old who's navigating a divorce and watching her sweet, sensitive boy swing from loving to lashing out, blaming her for everything. If you've ever had your child say something so piercing and you froze because you didn't know whether to correct it, comfort it, or walk away, this conversation is for you. Welcome to the Parent Coaching Chair podcast. I'm your host, Julie Fragnito, and your partner in parenting. Here we'll talk with real parents about their Come along as we grow from each other's experiences and receive practical, high-structure, high-nurture tools that you can use to lead confidently at home. Before we begin, if your child hits, scratches, or melts down the second things don't go their way, my guide Mastering Your Child's Anger shows you what the behavior is really telling you, how to set firm boundaries without shame, and the exact words to coach big feelings. For ages 2 through the teen years, grab it at transformingparenthood.com. Now let's get into today's episode.

I have one son who is 5, and his dad and I are going through a divorce now. It's been ongoing. We're still living in the same house, but that should change here soon. There's a lot of tension in the house. He does take time to spend one-on-one time with him, but it seems like even when it's just an hour or 2, My son is completely different when he's with me versus when he's with his dad. I've seen regression with him as far as baby talk goes with his dad and not so much with me. He's out of pull-ups at night, but there was a little bit of a time where he had regressed and he had some pretty big accidents through the night. And so we went back to pull-ups for a week or so, and then he's back out of pull-ups. So. It's been, you know, it's just been off and on. There's just a lot of tension, and I feel like he feels that. I know I feel that. You know, he gets very frustrated, and then he goes to the extreme. I don't want to say dramatic, but it's just very like black and white. Like he's just one way he's really sweet and fine, and then the next time he is not fine. His dad has made the comments about my parenting, about how I'm. Kissing his butt. Mm-hmm. Because, you know, he's not willing to do that. And I'm like, I'm not giving, I'm not doing that. I'm giving him choices and trying to help him understand things a little bit better. Sure. Obviously we don't see eye to eye on things, and that's why we're in the situation we're in. Sure.

Thank you. Yeah, I think first and foremost, I just wanna acknowledge how difficult it is to go through what you're going through and then to add in a child to the mix makes it even more difficult. And then to add in a child who is acting out in ways where you're like, I need to make sure my child is okay, is even harder. So there's layers to this. You're working clearly very hard to be intentional. You're here.

You are.

Stating your parenting philosophy and that you believe that kids should have choice and that they shouldn't just be controlled and you're at least willing to learn how to teach him certain things. So underneath all of this, you're feeling frustrated, defeated, sometimes a little lonely in this. And I just want to also give your child a little grace too, because Your son is learning how to deal with something like this moment while also being a 5-year-old. He's also just 5. So we're also trying to figure out, hey, what is, what is normal and what is being caused by the tension? And it sounds to me like maybe that's your goal of being here. Ideally, you wanna try and figure out how you can show up for your son and give him consistency and help him stay. consistent in who he is, because it sounds like the fluctuations that you are seeing are a little worrisome to you.

Yes, absolutely. I know that we don't always see eye to eye and our parenting is definitely different, but I do want to support my son in this process and growing up, you know, as a child and even as his dad as a child, you know, we weren't girded and, you know, you were told that this is the way that it's done because that's the way it's done. And I don't want to do that for him. And so I've been working really hard to try to explain and be open and show him a different way instead of just forcing him into what I was taught as a child. Sure.

So there's also that layer of breaking cycles and understanding that we're carrying our history with us. And you're trying to rewrite your story, which is really admirable. It's like you're reparenting yourself while also parenting your child at the same exact time.

Yeah, I have definitely changed my parenting ways, but I need more knowledge in how to navigate raising a 5-year-old when by myself in my own home. I'm not always gonna say the right things, but I wanna be on the right track of saying the right things that make it easier for him to understand. And be more on his level. So it becomes easier for both of us.

I hear your heart shining through your words, and I think it's very clear how much you absolutely adore your son and wanna show up as the best parent that you can possibly be for him. And so I also wanna just point out that he's extremely fortunate to have you as his mom for just agreeing to even have conversations like this. It shows me your humility. And any kid who has a humble parent is a lucky kid. So thank you for being here. I know how lucky your son is to have you, even if you don't feel like that every day.

Thank you. I really appreciate that.

So he had taken a trip with his dad to the coast.

He was gone all day and then he came home. We had a little pool in the backyard that we set up periodically for him to play. We needed to get it down and he wanted to help. So I'm like, okay, let's go outside. We go outside and we start draining the pool. And with those plastic pools, they get kind of slimy if you leave 'em up for too long. So it was slimy. I told him, I said, be careful when you stand in there because it is slippery. And he was like, I'm gonna be fine. I'm like, okay. And then he falls and he slips and, and he falls on his butt pretty hard.

Mm-hmm.

He gets upset and stands up and then he looks at me and he says, You're so mean to me. And I said, I'm mean to you? And he says, yes, you made me fall. And I said, I wasn't near you. I'm sorry that you think I made you fall, but I did not do that. And he says, yes, you did. You're so mean. And I'm like, oh honey, I'm sorry. And then I said, can I give you a hug? And he says, no, I don't want anything from you anymore. And I was like, okay. And I said, well, uh, I honestly didn't know what to say at the moment, but I said, okay, well, I'm sorry you feel that way. Why don't you come over here and I'll kind of get the pool going? And then he starts kicking water at me and I just asked him, please stop kicking. And so he gets out and he kicks the pool and then he tries to pick up the pool to dump it himself. Oh my gosh. And I said, just, you know, let me do that. It's really heavy. I don't want you to hurt yourself. So I, I finished it out, then he's mad and then he continues to cry. And I just kind of left him alone because he didn't want anything from me.

Mm-hmm.

And I didn't really know what to say. So I just, I finished getting the pool out. He followed me over to where I put the pool away and I said, I'm sorry, I know you fell, but I would really like to be here for you. And he says, I don't need anything. I'm like, okay.

Thanks.

So I left him alone and we started walking into the house and he kind of blocked me from the door to not let me go in. And I said, well, let's go inside. We can get you cleaned up and maybe we can take a shower and get you in jammies. He says, I'm not getting into jammies. I'm not showering. You know, and he's very like, you know, argumentative about everything. And then I just said, well, I need to go in the house. If you wanna stay outside, that's okay. But I'm gonna go in the house and get you a towel. And he says, you go get me dry clothes right now. And I said, well, I'm not gonna get you dry clothes like that, but if you ask me nicely, I will go get you dry clothes. And then he says, no. And I said, well, why don't we just get you in the shower and get you dry clothes and jammies and you'll be all done for the night? And then he gets even more mad and he says, no, I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna sit out here. And I said, okay, I will go get you some dry clothes and that will be that. So I went in the house, I got him a towel and some dry clothes, and then that was really it. He just said afterwards, I, I put the clothes on the bench next to him and I said, would you like some help with that? Or do you, are you okay on your own? And he says, I would like some help. And I said, okay, I will help you. And then we went inside after that. But like, ah, I don't know what to do. Sure. Sure.

Yeah. This isn't a word, but I hear your stuckness, right? Like you're trying so hard to be like, okay, you're blaming me. I'm gonna not allow that because that's not the truth. And then he's arguing, then you're arguing with him and then he says something disrespectful and you're like, whoa, now I have to handle the disrespect. And then you're like, whoa, he's blocking me and I'm gonna put my firm voice on and be like, I gotta get in the house. Move outta my way. You could stay here, but I have to go in. And you're trying, I hear you, you're teetering between structure and nurture. You're like, which one am I supposed to do right now? I think that's really common in moments like this.

Yeah. So the next day he went to his childcare and then I picked him up from school. And he said on the way home, he says, well, I love dad more than I love you. And it was just very random. And I was like, okay. And I said, well, we both love you very much. And he says, well, I love dad more than I love you. And I said, well, that's okay. You can love your dad as much as you'd like. And we, and I said, I'm not in competition with your dad and we both love you very much. And some days you may feel that way that you love one versus The other more, and that's okay. Mm-hmm. And he says, well, you should be in competition with my dad. And I said, well, I'm never gonna be in competition with your dad. And we love you both very much. And he says, blah. And then that was it. And I'm like, okay, I don't know how to handle that either, but I'm like, there is no way I'm gonna be in competition with his dad ever.

Right.

Because we love differently. It's different. Dads and moms are different. And the comments from him lately has been off the charts. And he says like, you're not my mom anymore and I don't want you to be around me anymore. And, you know, and I'm like, okay, I don't know where this is coming from, but I need to try to redirect or get to the bottom of it. The comments are piercing. And I'm like, okay, I, I really don't know what to do because I don't want to scold him.

Mm-hmm.

But it's very hurtful at the same time when you're like, wait a minute, I do everything for you.

Thank you. That's extremely painful for any mother to hear. And I know you're saying it through some bits of laughter, but it's heavy. And especially while you're carrying the grief of a divorce, your brain, when our kids say things like this, might hear, I'm losing my child. Or they're choosing dad over me, or how could this be? What did I do to deserve to be in a situation like this? And so that's heavy and you don't need your child to reassure you of the fact that you're their mother and what you do, but you can still feel really hurt by these words.

Sure.

And I just wanna validate that that's true first and foremost from a From a psychological perspective, when children's nervous systems get super activated, they take every threat to their nervous system safety as an opportunity to protect themselves. And how do they protect themselves? They blame. They deny. They argue. They attack. And this is exactly the pattern. And I love that you gave me 2 situations because it helps me spot patterns. This is a pattern that tells us that when his nervous system feels under attack, he lashes out and blames mom. It's a pattern. It has nothing to do with mom. It's just his habit. And so what I want to bring to your attention is that When our kids sometimes feel their shame and vulnerability so deeply, the only thing that they can possibly do in that moment is point blame at someone else to deflect in a way to say, it's about you. It's not about me. And it, I'm willing to bet, I don't know your son. I know nothing about him, that he's really sensitive and that he has a really big heart and that he can swing from being super loving. And super intensely happy to super intensely angry or mad or frustrated. And that doesn't tell me, ooh, that's something to worry about. That tells me, ooh, he has a really big heart and a really sensitive nervous system. And so in these moments, it's really difficult to do when the words they're saying are directed at us. But the first thing I wanna offer you is that In moments like this, we wanna remind ourselves that children, sometimes even adults, speak from their feelings when they don't have the words. And this is the perfect case for him. He doesn't have the words. Let's rewind to that pool situation. Be careful, you're gonna slip and fall. Boom, he slips and falls. Well, doesn't he feel stupid? Mom just said, see, I told you you were going to slip and fall, right? Even if you didn't say those words, you warned him and he knew that. And now it's like, are you okay? This is all your fault because why? He's embarrassed. His nervous system feels totally under attack. So what's he going to do? He's gonna survive. He's gonna protect himself by deflecting the attention onto the closest thing to him. Who is that?

You.

We do this not just with parents. We do this with partners. We do this with spouses. We do this. Hey, I noticed you didn't take the garbage out. Well, that's because you— Didn't get home in time, and I wasn't able to.

Whoa!

What happened? A spouse felt under attack, and what did they do? They shifted the attention right onto blaming somebody else because they did not like that feeling of potentially doing something wrong. And so, how do we actually move forward through this? Well, we need to recognize. First and foremost, and I think we're doing this together now, his pattern. So immediately when this happens again, because we know it will, I want you to remind yourself, he is protecting his nervous system. Something about his body feels under attack right now. This has nothing to do with me. So separating the personal feeling that you're feeling From the way that he is speaking. We can handle the word choice later. We can handle the behavior change stuff later, but first we need to get our mindset shifted.

Yes, I completely agree. I did feel like maybe he was a little embarrassed and I didn't really know how to handle it at that point.

Yeah. And we're gonna get to that. Those are my next 2 tools. But the first thing that I want you to kind of walk yourself through in these moments is just that. This is happening. Julie said this would happen and it's happening. I am a good mom. He doesn't have the words for his embarrassment, his vulnerability, his disappointment, his anger. I'm going to teach him those words. But for now, this is what's happening. Awareness first. So the second tool is this. We need to stop engaging. When we notice his nervous system is elevated. And I hear in your example, you teetering back and forth with this. Like, I'm just gonna ignore, I'm gonna go do what I have to do, but I'm gonna engage still, right? I, I'm not gonna go get me my clothes. Uh, I won't do that if you don't ask like that. And then minutes later, mom gets the clothes, right?

Mm-hmm.

So we're kind of teetering on do I engage? Do I not engage? How am I supposed to know when? To correct and when to give space. And so what I want you to understand is this: when he is shouting out those blames or those irrational things, or the things that you know are not true— I like dad more than you, whatever he says— we do not engage with a dysregulated nervous system because when we do, we get nowhere. If a spouse comes in and starts screaming at you, we can very simply keep our control and our power by saying, I'll wait until you're calmer to talk about this. And we wanna send that same message to our kids. We don't wanna get into the back and forth of, I told you it was slippery, or, oh, are you okay? This wasn't my fault. I did not tell you to go into the pool. I actually told you not to go into the pool. Or keep arguing. Please don't tell me to go get your clothes that way. Simple statements like, it sounds like you need some space. I'll be right here when you're ready to talk. And not try to go and leave. The blocking to me was a nervous system screaming, mom, I'm out of control. I don't know what's coming out of my mouth and I need you to stay. And so we're not gonna let him win, quote unquote, in these moments. But what we're gonna do is we're just gonna simply stick around. I would say maybe without going inside, maybe staying where he is and saying, we do not say words like that. We do not speak to each other like that. Just very simple. Draw the line for him. Firm and kind. I will not respond to that. Whatever the first 5 words are that come to mind, and then wait. I'm right here when you're ready to chat more respectfully. Sit on the outdoor chair. Go prune the flowers that are right near the pool. Get busy. Pretend that there's something you need to do out there, but I want you to draw the line very carefully, very Clearly, and then remain present without engaging. I don't want you to argue. I don't want you to prove who's right, prove who's wrong, teach him how to ask nicely. This is not the time. I want you to teach the lesson that when your body is like this, we actually get nowhere. I don't want you to progress forward at all. Not one step, not two steps, not three steps until we have calmness.

I love the tool. I'm nervous about using the tool.

Sure.

Love your thoughts. It's hard for me. I want to say those things and I say those things, but then I just don't know to stop engaging. I don't know how to, I don't know how to do that. Like it is so hard for me to stop engaging with him and I've been better, but we do bicker back and forth and I'm like, how do I stop this? How do I stop this? 'Cause he says, what, now you just don't wanna talk to me?

Mm-hmm.

I do not.

Mm-hmm.

No, I do wanna talk to you, but I don't think right now is the time to talk about it. We can talk about it later. And then he gets upset about me responding that way. Mm-hmm. And then it spirals into, well, maybe I just don't deserve anything. And I'm like, wait a minute.

Huh?

Okay. Sure. Sure. So it just spirals and I don't, I don't know once it spirals how to not engage, you know, like I put it down and then he's like, well, then I'm going to go this route. And then I'm like, well, I don't know what to do now. So I'm just going to engage. Yep. Yep.

That's really valid. And I appreciate your transparency and your honesty because you're like, I love it, but I could see it totally blowing up in my face and not working. And so, you know your kid better than anybody else, and that's why you're here and saying these things. And so here's what I want to offer you as the last tool, and it kind of goes based on your worry. So when our kids are acting out behaviorally, they're getting something out of it. He's getting something from it. What is he getting? In this case, a quick analysis, he's getting your attention. That's what he's getting from these moments. Perhaps he's feeling the tension in the house. Perhaps he's feeling the angst and what's going on in your heart and your nervous system and dad's nervous system. Perhaps there's a lot of noise for him. This is quickly turning into a habit because I know you're seeing it pop up here and there and there and there and there. Because what he's getting out of it is a lot of mom. He's getting a lot of you. Let me backtrack. Kids view our attention like it's gold. It doesn't matter if it's negative attention, positive attention. It doesn't matter if we're screaming at them in the face. They are getting our attention and they'll take whatever they can get. What I want you to kind of think about in these moments, and this will hopefully make it a little bit easier. When he throws out those comments like, so I, I don't deserve this, or those big statements for a 5-year-old to make. I want you to remind yourself is that this is him putting out the bait to see if you're going to take it. He's like, I know what will get mom to look at me. I know what will get mom to talk to me. I know what will get mom to keep going with this conversation. And maybe eventually she'll cave. And then eventually she shows me that she loves me. And so I'm gonna keep going with this cycle because even though it starts kind of yucky and we get mad and we fight, and then I say something and I pull her back in, and then eventually I calm down and then she gets nice and she goes and gets my clothes, and then it kind of just dies out. I can deal with that cuz we ended on a good note. And so we're teaching him this labyrinth of How to get mom's attention. And we're driving ourselves nuts in the interim. It's not how you want to get it. This is not how I want to spend time with my son. This is not how I want to spend an hour of our time outside when I thought we were just going to be friendly and you were going to help me close up the pool and now it exploded into this whole thing. I want this moment to be positive. I want our moments to be positive. That's what he's doing here. When he throws out those extra statements and gets really mad, it's hard. It's hard to stay quiet. It's hard to say, what do you mean you don't deserve this? What do you mean you're so— not the time to engage. The only way we get better at not feeding these moments is by recognizing when he's pulling one of these things. But at the same time, and this is really where the 3rd tool comes in, I want you to realize that the more moments like this take over, the less positive moments we have with our kids. And so I really want you to sit and ask yourself, am I having more good moments with my son these days? Or does it feel like we're getting into more and more of these types of explosions and battles these days? I want more of the good moments. How do I make those happen more? Well, I need to pay attention to when he is regulated more. I need to feed into him and sit next to him and love him and ask him about his day when he is regulated, when he is doing the thing that I wanna see him doing. So that he learns very quickly and we could rewire his brain to understand, oh, this is a better way to get my mom's attention.

I absolutely love it because you're right. I have been, you know, spending more on the negative, you know, tendencies with him. And I don't want that. I really do not want that. So to pour into him in the good moments and You know, and kind of be over the top with that to start a new pattern would be the best for all of us.

I love how you said that, start a new pattern. This is going to happen again, but the only way we can really break this cycle is if we take the initiative. I will not let our relationship go there. I'm going to feed him and show him that I can be happy and I can be fun with him. And I can tell him I love him and play that game he really wanted to play with me because maybe 5 or 10 minutes of doing that will prevent one of these moments from getting there. Because maybe it's not just the embarrassment of falling into the pool. Maybe it's not just saying you and dad are in competition, whatever he's saying to try and get more of mom's attention. Maybe underneath all that he is saying, I feel alone. I need somebody in my corner. Allow them to be mad and say, I am not even dipping my toe into that. Without calmness first, or maybe even redirecting him and saying when he is going too far, I don't deserve any of this. I'm mad he says these things. Understanding like, hey, don't even engage with that sentence. Engage with something else. Hey, when you're feeling a little bit calmer, I have something really funny to tell you. And what you're doing is you're breaking that cycle. And I'm not saying distraction is the number one parenting tool. I'm saying sometimes we need that when we're so stuck in a hole or in a rut that we're like, how do we get out of this? Sometimes we just need to prove to our kids that there is a much better way and a much different way to connect with me. And I'm going to get you there and I'm going to teach you that this is how we're going to do it. You and dad are in competition. Oh, we're not in competition ever. I don't ever want you to think that. All he's hearing in his brain is You are wrong. Whenever we go to a head-to-head power struggle with our kid, they're not listening to the words we're saying. All they hear is, you're wrong. And so he's like, great, now I'm alone and I'm wrong. Whatever. At least I'm getting mom's attention. You're not just the only one that's stuck. He's stuck in his own cycle of, I don't know how to get out of this.

You are so right, and it has been very eye-opening and it Makes me a little sad that my, my son is struggling in that well, but I am determined to make it better for him and for me. But I do appreciate you taking the time and it's been a blessing to me that you have taken this time with me. So I thank you for opening my eyes and, and guiding me through this difficult time.

I can hear your heart through every single word that you're saying. I know how much you care. And I think one of the beauties of motherhood is when our kids are struggling with something, it's amazing how when we really step back and we see we're struggling with the same exact thing. And so I think it's really important to come from that place too, of, hey, we're, we're in this together.

Thank you. I really, really appreciate you.

Before you go, remember the heart of Everything I teach is the balance between structure and nurture, holding the boundary while protecting their heart at the same time. If you want the full system, not just tools for one hard moment, that's exactly what my course, Mastering High Structure, High Nurture Parenting, is built to give you. Find it at transformingparenthood.com. If this episode helped you, make sure you're following the podcast So you don't miss next week's episode. And if you have just 30 seconds, leaving a quick review is one of the biggest ways you can help me reach more parents who need this message. Thank you so much for listening. I'll see you back here next week.