The Sibling Dynamic That’s Breaking Your Heart: how to avoid yelling when it gets aggressive

In today's episode, I invite you into my real-time coaching session with a mom of a 4-year-old and a 16-month-old. Her older daughter is hitting and kicking the baby every time she comes near her space or her toys, and nothing she's trying seems to stick. Welcome to the Parent Coaching Chair podcast. I'm your host, Julie Fragnito, and your partner in parenting. Here we'll talk with real parents about their real moments. Come along as we grow from each other's experiences and receive practical, high-structure, high-nurture tools that you can use to lead confidently at home. If you've ever found yourself in the middle of a sibling dynamic that's kind of breaking your heart, making you want to yell in the face of aggression, and then immediately feeling terrible about it, this episode is for you.

I have two daughters. One of them is 4 and the other one is 15, 16 months old. And the, you know, the situation is she's having issues with sharing. When she's playing, let's say, with her favorite toys, you know, and then her sister come around. She's still a baby, right? So she grabbed the toy and she hit her in the head, and the other one comes crying. I try, you know, different things, like, you know, acknowledging her emotions, that she might feel frustrated because she grabbed the toy, you know, her hands are not for hitting, you know, but she just continued doing it. And I, you know, I'm feel for my 1-year-old. Many times I lost, you know, my calmness and I would probably yell at her. And so I really need to help.

Thank you. That's really helpful.

So your kids are struggling a little bit with each other in terms of, you know, their communication, their understanding of one another and their different needs. I also hear that your 4-year-old is like, why is this little human coming in and taking my things? And mom, you're like, but she's a baby. That's what babies do, and she's still a baby in your eyes. And so, Mom, you end up getting worked up and overwhelmed and frustrated in these moments because you are stuck, right? You're like, how am I supposed to move forward through this and help everybody? Because in your heart, you just want your kids to get along. You want them to play well with one another. You want them to be able to be respectful to one another.

Yeah, definitely. You know, that would be in the perfect world. I would love, you know, the baby comes around and she just wants to be like her, right? She wants to play whatever she's playing with, she wants to play with that, she wants to be like her, you know, that she gently, you know, share her toys. Laylee been picking this one, one sit sofa, and she thinks it's her fort, and the baby wants to join her, and she just kick her, and it break my heart. But I wish, you know, they could join and sit with each other and play gently, you know. But I, yeah, I lose my, my calmness. I find myself yelling, which I haven't done that before. Never. So I feel like so guilty and sad, and I don't know what else to do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it says a lot about who you are in that one, you can open up and say, I'm yelling, I'm losing my cool, I don't like this about me. And then I think it says a whole other layer about you is that you're here, right? You're doing this because you care so much, you love your kids so much, you want to show up for them and lead them through these challenging moments, even though in the moment you might be yelling and you might feel like a terrible parent, I know for a fact that that's not true because you're here right now, and only parents who deeply love their children engage in these conversations. So thank you so much for being here. I want to start by letting you recognize that this is so common. There is nothing wrong with your children. There is nothing wrong with you. This is just what happens sometimes when we're going through adjustments. It feels yucky, it feels uncomfortable. But without these moments of discomfort, we don't know that there's something that needs to be worked on. So we want to kind of take it as a gift, like, oof, this does not feel good. Ooh, okay, this is a moment for me to grow as a mother. This is a moment for my kids to grow as kids. And so that's the gift underneath all of this. What you're seeing is not a child who's disconnected. You're not seeing a child who's bad. You're not seeing a child who hates sister, even though that's what it certainly feels like. But what it is, is that this is just a child who is lacking skills, right? Lacking skills maybe in sharing, in handling frustration. On the other side, we also have a little one who's lacking skills too, who's lacking skills with impulse control and grabbing things because that's fun and that's what babies do and they don't know any different. So there's two little humans here that are lacking different skills that we need to help them build.

I mean, I love to learn, I mean, how to teach them those skills because yeah, I mean, like I said before, I've been, before I, you know, I tried techniques, this and that, but I love to, I love to learn those techniques for sure.

You are trying so many things. And that's a great sign, right? It's like, I try to engage with her feelings. I try to tell her hands are for, you know, not for hitting, they're being gentle. And you're trying. It's not like you're sitting back and watching all this. You're like, let's see if this works. Let's see if this works. Can you bring me a little bit into what happens when you attempt to maybe talk about her feelings or, you know, say hands are not for hitting?

I learned these techniques of, you know, respectful parenting, right? You know, ah, you know, I see that you feel frustrated because your sister took your toy and she's like feel disconnected, she's like ignoring me 100% and totally she's like in the different dimension, you know. We don't cancel enough for hitting, but still you don't hit your sister and she's like ignoring me fully and completely. And it's like, I, how can I get through this, you know, this little girl? But, you know, I try that. Uh, that those techniques. And then we don't hit, and that's not for hitting. It's just keep doing it. So, but yeah, I try different, all kind of things.

It's frustrating because what's happening is you're trying these things and you feel like maybe a broken record at times, and it's not sinking in. And then even worse, when you're attempting to talk about feelings or you're trying to teach her this lesson that seems very simple for adults, right? Hands are not for hitting. That it's kind of just being ignored, right? Like, I don't want to talk about feelings. I don't want to talk about what that even means, Mom. I don't know what you're talking about. I just don't like this little human taking my stuff, so I'm going to be angry about it and I am going to lash out. So that's super frustrating within itself, is that you are attempting these things, you're trying, you're putting yourself forward, but also you're being met with being ignored and you're being met with your kid just doing the same thing all over again. The next time. And so let's jump into some of the practical stuff. I'm going to begin by explaining the developmental aspect of a 1-year-old and a 4-year-old first, and then we'll jump into the practical things. So the first understanding that I want to teach is that under the age of 5, our kids just need consistent corrective action, like, all the time. That's why it's so exhausting to raise an under-5-year-old, because they need a of, of attention. They need a lot of support. They need a lot of guidance, especially with managing social situations, because this is where it gets really complicated for their little brains. It's not just them anymore, it's dealing with them and another human, and so it's a lot for them to process. So under the age of 5, a lot of it looks like taking action, constant action, just to show them right from wrong and less about lecturing, less about shaming, less about talking about the rules, right? And an example of that is, "Hands are not for hitting." That's talking about a rule. Let's show what we mean. And we're going to dive into that when I get to the practical stuff, but I want to just get you engaged on that level of where they are developmentally is that our words do so little for our kids at this age. It's so much more about our action. So I want you to remember that, that yes, we want them to have a beautiful relationship. Yes, we want them to respect. Yes, we want them to understand hands are not for hitting. Yes, we want them to love each other. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But no matter how many times we say that, our kids under the age of 5 are going to look at us like, what? What does that have anything to do with her taking my toy? I don't, I don't get it. Oh, okay. Hands are not for hitting, but I'm still really mad. It's very hard for our little kids to connect those dots, even though it makes sense to us. It's really hard for them to understand that.

But I really feel, you know, mirroring everything that you're saying, because when I, you know, explain her I, I try everything.

The first thing that you want to do is recognize that our child who is getting frustrated because somebody walked up to them and grabbed their toy, which I think that would frustrate any human, not just a 4-year-old, right? Let's say you were sitting on the train and texting somebody and somebody walked up to you and ripped your phone out of your hand and walked away, right? I would fully expect that you would get angry about that. I want you to just put yourself in those shoes for a second, that she's not wrong to be angry, she is not wrong to be frustrated. And so her body is on fire in that moment, just like you would be if somebody ripped your phone out of your hand and walked away, right? And so she is not only, you know, not sharing or not being a good sister or not loving, but we're missing the big piece, which is at the beginning she's totally dysregulated. She is so angry, and we need to create space and time for that anger because she is allowed to feel that way. That's a lot for a 4-year-old to process and then be told, well, hands are not for hitting, or you need to share She's only one. And you'd be like, wait, what? Does anybody understand me? That would be like if you grabbed the phone out of your hand and then you had just a random person come up to you and you were fuming like, I have to get my phone back. How am I going to get this back? And they're in your face going, don't be angry. You have to be nice. You know, that person really needed that phone. They really needed that. They're just gonna take it and that's okay. And you're like, wait, what? No, that's not okay. And so what she's feeling is valid. We need to put ourselves in those shoes. And I think you do understand that because you are having conversations about what she's feeling, but it's not sinking in. And so what I want to suggest to you is that this piece is just for you to notice, just for you to feel, just for you to absorb and remind yourself of, is that What she is feeling makes sense. Does it mean I want you to engage in a therapy session with her and get down on her level and start talking about feelings? No, I do not. As we know, that backfires. She's going to ignore you. It's a waste of time. You're going to end up yelling. That is not the time to talk about feelings. It is also not the time to talk about logic. So we're not going to teach about respect. We're not going to teach about sharing. We're not going to talk about feelings. None of it. She's dysregulated. And so what we need to do is we need to set very clear boundaries ahead of time before they go into that room. She needs to know that you've got her back. So leading with structure before the moment is key. Hey, before we all go in here, or before you take the baby out of the high chair, and you just have your 4-year-old by herself and the baby is safe somewhere. Okay, we're all gonna be in here and we're gonna play together for about 20 minutes. I remember last time you got so frustrated because she took your toy, so I'm gonna be on the lookout for those moments. I'm gonna be here to help. Can we make 2 piles? What pile of toys can we make that we're okay with sharing, and what pile of toys do you want to make that just you want to play with for now? I just want to get a better understanding. And so what you're doing by setting this situation up for her in advance is showing her, I see you, I am going to value your opinion and your feelings in this moment, and I'm gonna respect that you want to have some sort of protection in this moment when you're playing because you deserve it. So I want her to understand that Yes, the toys are for sharing, and in our house we share with everybody, but also babies take things and do things and they don't particularly know how to use certain toys, and that can be frustrating. So show me what, what pile we're good with baby for having and what pile we're good with you having. We'll start with that. And so once you structure it in that way, you make the rules really clear before the conflict so that when the baby enters the room and she goes up to that pile that you told your daughter was just for her, then you can say, whoa, nope, and pick the baby up and put her back and say, these are your toys in this pile. And so now we've created a structure so that everybody feels safe in this moment. Now, are you going to be able to do this every single time?

No.

But in as many times as you can, what you're actually doing is you're building up your 4-year-old's faith again, right? That she can be in a room with her sister and not be angry, and she can be in a room with her sister and feel protected by you. And so we need to start building that up first, because I fear that if this is going on for too long, it could be kind of damaging a little bit of her trust, right? I don't know what the rule is. I don't know why I have to let this baby do whatever she wants. I don't feel like my mom or dad have my back in these moments, and I feel like nobody's hearing me. So by setting up this structure, we kind of create that safety for her.

So I think it should work because, I mean, really, she has, um, like a little playset that where all her things are, and baby has, you know, her little toys out. But, um, you know, sometimes baby comes through on a sneak through her play, play base, and then she, boom, she hit her, you know. Or sometimes she, um, uh, she— there's like this one seated sofa that she loves and she thinks it's her fort, and her baby, the baby comes around and she wants to sit and she kick her. So yeah, but I think you're right that the toys, her toys are, you know, some toys are hers and then, yeah. And then we have like a little like fence to prevent the baby comes inside. Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's where it can get really tricky. And I appreciate you making the picture so clear for me, right? Because it's like, okay, now the baby, now by setting up structure, it almost helps us have a clearer picture of what's going on in the room. Right? Because now you can fall back on that. I said this was her space and this was the baby space. So as the leader, I am responsible for making sure that that happens, even if that means going to get the baby 20 times and putting her back in her space. Yes, it's exhausting to have a 15, 16-month-old, and this is why, right? Because we're constantly showing that our boundaries are not going to move. That we mean what we say. And yes, even for a baby who is just a baby, they need to know right from wrong too. With positivity and kindness and love. Nope, not over here. Pick her up, put her back. Nope, not over here. Pick her up, put her back. I want you to almost just do this in an effort to prove to your 4-year-old that I have this taken care of. You don't have to do anything because what you're also feeling in this moment of anger, of hitting, of kicking is, well, none of the adults in the room are going to take care of it, so I have to take care of it. And this is the only way I know how. And so it's kind of like this feeling of taking control of a moment where really a parent should be controlling it. As hard as that is when we're doing a million things, cooking dinner, cleaning, I know the story. We need to be alert, especially for these social moments when they are together. Because the more time we put in now when they're little, the easier it's going to be as they get older to say, yep, you guys can go play, and they'll be lost for 2 hours and know how to play respectfully and respect each other's spaces. So we need to put the time in now.

I love it, I love it. I'm gonna try that. Yeah, because I think that's how she might feel. She might feel, you know, this is connection because she feels— yeah, I think she might love her trust because we always go for the baby because, baby, you know, she's such little thing, and we feel she's gonna get hard, and, you know, and then, okay, yeah, she needs her, you know, to her, to respect her space and her items. Okay, what you do? They consider sofa— she's obsessed about— she thinks it's her fort, and whenever the baby comes inside, she kick her, and then we tell her, no, that's, uh, that sofa is everyone's, it's not yours. So I don't— should we just respect her little space that over there?

Yeah, yeah. So this is a great question, and that leads me to my next point. So what happens in the moment when it actually happens? Because it's gonna happen again. She's gonna hit, she's gonna push, she's gonna grab, she's gonna kick. And so what happens when, let's say, she's in that fort and she's like, this is my space, and the baby enters the space and she takes some sort of physical action, right? Well, my question is, let's go back to point one. Was that discussed in the structure piece ahead of time? Are you okay, Mom and Dad— you don't have to answer this now— but are you okay with that fort couch space being only hers? It sounds to me like you're a little conflicted, like you're like, why can't her sister come in with her? That is not just her space, it's fun space. And if you're not okay with that just being hers then we need to teach that. If you want her to first say, 'This is my space,' and we want to show we will not let the baby go there, then you take the baby out every time before she can get angry. And yes, we protect that rule. However, if she comes in and she actually ends up kicking, pushing, hitting her, I want you to get involved immediately with action. And what that means is you jump in by protecting the baby grab the baby and stay there. Stay present. Hold the baby close. Have her on your lap. Have her on your knee and look right into your 4-year-old's eyes and say, "We do not push," or, "We do not hit." It's okay to be firm and put that voice on, especially when aggression is present, right? We do not tolerate that level of communication. That is not love. I don't want you to go down a path of lecturing her. I want you to just say very neutral, very simple, we do not hit. And then I want you to stay there because what she's doing is she's saying, ooh, every time I hit, my mom runs in and takes the baby and protects her and walks away. So what is that doing? It's actually making her behavior, her hitting, work because she's like, well, every time I hit, the baby goes away. So this is great. I don't care that my mom is screaming at me. I don't care that my dad is yelling at me. I'm in my fort and my kick worked. That's all I'm gonna say, right? That's how a 4-year-old's brain works. And so what we want to do is we want to show her your hit, your kick, your push is not going to work. So how do we do that? We get in that fort with the baby and we stay right there with them and we stay there. And so what we do by keeping our body there, keeping our language short and grounded, is showing her that this is not going to work, but I'm going to teach you what will work. And so what we need to do in that very moment is replace her hitting, her kicking, her yelling with a better way of communicating. And so we're going to look at her 4-year-old right in the eye and we're going to say, If this is your space and she's in your space, you can either say one of two things: "Help, Mom!" or "This is my space. Can you try that?" And what you're gonna do is let her try it right in the moment. You have not moved, the baby has not moved. You are just making sure everybody's safe, everybody's in the fort. This is what I mean about taking action, right? You could yell from across the room, you can grab the baby and walk away, you could be angry, you could lecture. It does nothing for teaching her skills to communicate better, which is why it keeps happening. Replay it for her. The baby enters your space. We're in the fort. What do you say? Help, Mom! Or, you're in my space, please get out. Oh sure, no problem. We're going to take the baby and we're going to move out of her fort with the baby. What are we doing by doing that? We're training your 4-year-old to recognize that good communication works. Bad communication, hitting, kicking, being disrespectful does not. It actually kept the baby there for longer.

Yeah, I love it. I think that should work. Yeah, like I noticed that many times when I talk, talk, talk, she's like, oh, well, I try to explain, right? Hansel and Gretel, and this, and like, resonate with her. She just, she's just ignore me. Um, so I think with this, this should work. So I'm gonna try it. She has this strong personality, really strong-willed kind of child, and I'm pretty sure she's gonna first do like a big drama, like, ah, start, you know, crying and screaming and all those things. So I just keep my ground still, right? Like keep a strong my ground and just keep doing that, I guess.

Yeah, exactly. I'm glad that you mentioned that she has big emotional reactions because we need to prepare for that. You know your child best. When you get in there and you say, "We do not hit," and she starts flailing and screaming, getting mad, you sit there and you wait quietly. Do not say a word. I want you to show her, I am not scared of your feelings, and we will work this out in a respectful way. I will wait. And by not feeding that moment with words or explanations or lectures or getting her what she wants, like the baby out of her fort or the baby to give her back her toy, we have to wait for calmness to come. We have to wait for regulation to come because we want to teach her that when we're dysregulated, that is a totally unproductive time to solve problems and nothing will get done. I will sit here quietly until this is over.

I think it should work because, you know, she's just going to regulate herself seeing that we are all calm and that's going to be the better solution.

I like that you said that she's going to see that you're calm because that is so much more powerful than getting on your child's level in that moment and saying, let's be calm. Let's be calm. Take breaths.

Exactly.

What you're embodying, right? My mom is not freaking out right now. My mom's waiting. Why is she waiting? Right? And you're just standing there with the baby. I'll wait. Right? Focus your attention on something the baby's looking at. Like, oh, you see my fingers? And show her your hands and just wait. Just wait. Cool, calm, and collected. And then the last thing that I want to jump into is that after the moments are over, that's really when we could talk about these things. When the meltdown is past, when The baby is out of her space. When she sees that when she uses kind communication, it works. Even when the baby comes up to her and grabs her toy and she goes to hit, same thing. Block her, hold her arms down, say, "You cannot hit," and then tell her and whisper in her ear and say, "Can I please have that toy back?" You're giving her a replacement so that she says to her sister, "Can I please have that toy back?" Now, of course, the 15-month-old is not going to say, "Sure," and give her her toy back. So Mom, as the leader, this is where you come in. You take that toy gently out of her little fingers and you say, "Of course, here's your toy back. Thank you for asking so nicely." And then look at your 1-year-old and say, "We don't take toys from people. Come over here. Let's go see what's over here." And you go, right? So what's happening here is you're still protecting your 4-year-old. She has valid needs. Okay, and then in that, the last point that I want to make, this is where a lot of the skills come, is outside of these moments. So what we want to do is in all of the good moments where your 4-year-old is doing the right thing, I want you to bring attention to that. I don't want you to dwell and give her all of your attention in these negative moments where she's doing the wrong thing because it actually perpetuates and keeps these things happening over and over again. So for example, if you're in the kitchen and she says something like, "Can I have a bite, please?" or, you know, "Can I go to the bathroom?" or "Can I help you with cooking?" I want you to look at her and say, "Wow, thank you so much for asking so nicely. Of course you can." I want her to see that she really is good at using her words. That she really is good at helping her sister, right? Even if she gave her sister her shoes, right? Can you go grab your sister's shoes? Wow, thank you so much for doing that. That's how we're gonna build up their relationship. We're gonna build up their respect for one another and their confidence for each other in those moments of when they're doing the right thing, far more than messing up or doing it wrong.

Oh, I love it. I love it. I'm just listening to everything and then I'm pretty sure that this is going to work and give it a try. And really, I'm so willing to, you know, to change this toxic dynamic. And so I just want to try it as soon as I meet them upstairs.

Yeah.

Yeah. I'm excited.

I am. I'm so glad to hear that you are doing great things. So you're not so far off. You're like, I want to talk about her feelings. I want to talk about this. You just need to shift, you know, when and how you're supporting her. When is this happening and how am I doing it? Needs to be quick, immediate, neutral. And I think you're going to see a lot of success.

I'm excited. I'm going to try this, this other thing that just came to my mind that happens really, really often. She, you know, when the baby's playing actually with her toys, she comes and grabs the toy from her. So just the same, the same, uh, that you explained, right? Just, um, they, uh, I mean, they tell her that that's not, that's, that's not her, that, that this shouldn't, that's not her turn. Just give the toy back to her, right? And then just, she's gonna just not gonna like it, but still gonna be calm there, kind of, right? Exactly. Yep.

You nailed it. So when she goes up to the baby and takes her toy, whoa, that's not okay ever. Not when the baby does it, not when you do it. And so nope, you do not take toys from people. And now that she's 4, you could give her a little bit of control, right? You can say, you can give that back or I will do it for you, and give her no more than 5 seconds, right, to give it back. Or okay, I will do it for you. You take it and you give it back. You say, we don't take toys from our, from our friends. We say, can I have that please? And if it's not time, because the baby can't talk so much and I'm making decisions for the baby because you're the mom, right? I will let you know when she's done playing with this and then I will pass it over to you. Now go find something else in the room. That's it. Keep it short. Keep it simple. No lectures. Just focus on the moments, not the big lessons.

Those will come.

Okay, sounds good. I'm gonna give it a try. Thank you so, so much. Thank you so much, Julie. Really, I love you. I love your work. I'm excited.

As we wrap up, remember this: your child isn't hitting because she's bad or because she doesn't love her sister. She's hitting because she's dysregulated. She doesn't have the skills to communicate what she needs yet, and she's not sure anyone has her back in this moment. Your job isn't to lecture her into better behavior. It's to show up with structure before the storm, stay calm inside of it, and teach her what works instead. And the time you put in now while they're little is exactly what builds the relationship you're dreaming of for them later. Thank you for joining me in the Parent Coaching Chair. Keep leading your home with high structure and high nurture, and I'll meet you back here next week. Please know that your experience here matters to me. Your ratings and reviews help this podcast reach more parents who need this message. If this episode helped you, please leave a rating or review, and please follow my show on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It really helps. If you're looking for more support, you'll find classes and practical guides over at my website, www.transformingparenthood.com. And podcast listeners can use the code PODCAST15 at checkout for 15% off my Mastering High Structure, High Nurture course, my signature systematic approach to raising cooperative and emotionally skilled kids.