5 Most Explosive Moments of Season 1 | KARAMO

My whole childhood you talked about yourself, bro. And you don't give a shit. You feel entitled, bro. I feel entitled? How? How? How am I feel entitled? I don't know, you tell me how. He's accusing me of not being his wife.

Not being his wife?

Yes. So he's saying that the marriage is fake. It's a fraud.

So I don't understand, how long have y'all been together?

16 years we've been married. It's gonna be 4 years this year.

And he's saying that you are not his wife.

Right. I'm fake. Like.

Yeah, I just gave you a hug so I know you here. We're not all in a dream.

No. So. He thinks that the marriage wasn't real. Even though we went to the courthouse.

When did that, you're not his wife start?

That started about 2 years ago.

2 years ago he's been doing that, okay. When did he start accusing you of cheating?

Oh, that's been for a while.

Okay. So who does he think you're cheating with?

Family members, friends, his friends.

How often does Dewayne accuse you of cheating?

Just about every day.

Every day?

Yeah.

And you have to FaceTime him, my producer told me, on your lunch breaks and at different moments to like show him?

Yes, just for him to believe that I'm really at work.

And he monitors your phones, like your GPS location?

Yes. So one day I was at work, And he was saying, "Oh." He called me like, "Oh, where you at?" I'm like, "I'm at work. I'm in the break room." He's like, "Oh no, you're not. The GPS is saying you somewhere else." Where I work at is like, I guess in a mall. So whatever comes up on the GPS, that's what it's saying.

So he's admitting that he has bugged your phone or like tracking it? Tracking it.

Tracking it. He has to be, but I don't know how.

Do you think he's just saying that just to see if you're gonna admit something?

Admit what?

I don't know.

That's what I'm asking you. I'm not doing anything to him.

Okay.

Like, I'm tired. Like, every time I turn around, it's, even if my job call and say, "Oh, we need you to come in," he think I planned that.

Okay. He also thinks that you're trying to get revenge?

Oh yes.

Tell me about that.

Oh God. I recently found out about a month ago that he has cheated. Yeah, so he came out.

He told you that he had cheated?

Yes. And what did that do to you? No, that hurted me, but he feels like now I'm gonna be tit for tat.

And what did that do to you?

No, that hurt me. Like, it hurt me so bad. Like, I can't believe it. Like, I'm still in shock. I think that's what it is. I'm still in shock. Everybody think I'm crazy. I've been with her for 16 years. I think she's an undercover FBI agent. I think she's a cop.

That's why you're saying she's not your wife?

Yeah, I think she's a cop. Not only that, My 4-year, now let's tell the truth. My 4-year-old daughter comes to me and say, "Daddy, Mommy was in the bed with another man." That's what she told me. Now a 4-year-old only gonna repeat what they see. She's not gonna say nothing unless she see it. She's a child. You know that is not true.

Why do you think she's an undercover cop though?

Because she started saying, "All right, people almost killed me and took my life." All right, I used to be a drug dealer, but I told her when I met her, I said, listen, I give up the selling drugs, I give up the streets. Yes, he did give up everything for me. I give up everything for you. He did give up everything for me, and I'm so blessed for that. I didn't want her to get hurt, so I gave it up. And then I understand I cheated, and I told her if she did anything to me, I will forgive her 'cause I'm a God man. I will forgive her. I know I was wrong. I've been with her for 16 years, but she don't want to let, she didn't want to let me, when I did want to go work, she was comfortable. That's not true. She's comfortable with me being in the house. No, it's not. Taking care of the kids. She's comfortable with me being, she don't want me to go out and do nothing outside the house.

What is the other suspicious behavior that you think that she's exhibiting?

Like the other, like when she goes to work and she was on her phone and I go on my phone, I just start just to see if she's at work. And like I told you, I'll be out. The phone say Dodd-Ferry, but if you worked in Yonkers, why is it saying Dodd-Ferry? If you worked in Yonkers, yes, it's a mall. So probably being that is— I'm not crazy. I know I'm not crazy. It's probably showing where my location is moving back and forth, constantly moving. Something going on because they say I'm local. I look— something going on.

You told my producers that you constantly kept saying that you think Tiffany moves different. She moves different. What do you mean by that?

Yeah, we having a conversation and she said to me, "What about after this case, then on to the next case?" Now if you know I've been in the streets and I've been to jail and I gave up all that negativity stuff for you, why would you even mention something like that to me? Wait, hold on, did I marry a cop or something or FBI agent? But he's been saying this. Who did I marry? 'Cause she done never talked like that before. Now if I would've met her from beginning and she was speaking like that, then I could understand. Then I could say, "All right, you know what? All right, I know what I put myself into." But 16 years and to find out she's an undercover and find out I've been almost killed.

Why do you think she's lying to you about where she goes when she leaves home?

Why I think she's lying? 'Cause ain't no boss gonna call you tomorrow and say, "Oh, you gotta come to work tomorrow." Then Tuesday come, you come back. Just because they don't call you. A boss gonna give you a set schedule. No, they don't. For a week and say, right, this is the schedule.

But you can be on call sometimes.

Yes, you can. No, but this is every week. This is not just one week or maybe one day they say we need you to come in and do some overtime. And he thinks I'm not going to work. This is like every week. And that's where the GPS comes in and him thinking I'm with somebody else. This is every week.

So you recently posted something on Facebook that I wanna read. You posted, "Why do women wait till they're married to cheat? I always knew that no matter how good you are to a woman, she will always have someone else on the side just in case your ass act up and she will never get caught. Only if she wants you to know.

And that's real." Yeah, but I wrote that because what happened was I was in the house like the mother. She was trying to play the man role. No, I wasn't. Let me explain to you. Somebody has to work.

But this right here, this sounds identical to what you did. You cheated, you had someone on the side and you let her know when you wanted to. To let her know?

I didn't think of it like that.

Well, yeah.

And he could have been told. I didn't think of it like that, but no, no, but I told her though.

But why are you so sure that she is not your wife, that she is a cop and that she is cheating on you? 'Cause you have not said anything yet that says she's cheating.

I'm gonna tell you why. When I went down, we had a meeting in the office. I'm not. When I went down, I told 'em that my wife was FBI. No, I'm not. Stop saying that. Stop saying that. The security guard in the office, Told me that I was right.

Oh no. All right, listen, so what we got right now is I think it's time you brought us here.

She told me I was right. She said, "You right." And she's not right.

There's not a qualification that person has to tell you that they're right or wrong. But what we do have right now is you brought us here. You said you wanted us to unlock your phone to prove to him, to prove to your husband that you are not doing anything, that you are being faithful and that—

Yeah, and I've been only with him.

Got it. Do you think we're gonna find anything on this phone?

Yeah.

What do you think we're gonna find?

I don't know, I'm just looking forward. We ain't gonna find nothing.

Okay. Well, it's time to reveal the truth. So Tiffany, we unlocked your phone and when it came to photos that were suspicious or interacting with anyone else or from anyone else, we found zero photos.

Told you, I told you.

We had our phone investigator go through your GPS and track locations and pings of locations based on where you're supposed to be at those times, where you're living, where you are going to work. And when it came to the GPS, we found zero suspicious activity. You were everywhere you said you were going to be.

So now you can stop saying it.

Now when it came to text messages, I found over 100 text messages And they were 100 nasty, mean, and disrespectful messages from you.

Told you.

Yes, and I actually had my producers pull these up because for me, this was beyond, beyond. So you wrote her things such as, these kids is not mine and you are not my wife, you're the FBI. Y'all are doing this to me because I'm poor and don't worry about getting crazy. You also wrote her, and I can go on because this gets even worse. No, no, no, no, I'm not done yet. No, no, no, I'm not done yet. You sent your wife this text immediately. You said point blank, "I saw nothing in her response to warrant this type of message. I didn't see an aggressive nature from her. There was not something back to her that could prompt you." There was nothing from her that was like, "Oh, let me just say something to you that could provoke you to feel this way." You just randomly text your wife, the mother of your children, "Bitch." But do you know why? I'm gonna keep on. You said, "And I hope your FBI friends can see this because you are a bitch. With the FBI badge, you can only hurt people and that's all you good for." Yeah. Do you think it's appropriate to be talking to your wife this way?

No, no, but you don't understand where that, see, you don't understand why I said what I said. You wasn't there when I wrote it, so you don't know why I said what I said.

But I can see the messages and responses that you two have.

So I'm the bad guy here?

Yes.

I'm the bad guy here? I don't have no messages with nobody.

That's who you are.

That's who you are. So I need help.

First of all, apologize to your wife for being completely disrespectful.

I'm your wife. I've been here for you. It's only me and you. Completely, brother. Completely. I apologize. It's only me and you. I apologize.

Completely.

I apologize for everything I did. I apologize, but I apologize, but you can say that I'm disrespectful, but she has disrespected me too.

No, I have not.

But she just don't write it. She showed. When she get mad, she told me. The texts go a while. Let me tell you what she told me. You want me to tell you what she told me? She said, if I was gonna cheat on you, you would never find out. I said that years ago when we was younger, and he probably was bugging me then. Keep saying stuff that I'm cheating.

But she might have said that you actually did it. So again, your justification is all screwed up. You actually cheated. I did not cheat on you. You are telling your wife, the mother of your children, that she's not your wife, that she's trying to set you up. Tiffany, why are you staying? Why are you not done with this? Why are you not done? This is paranoia on another level. Told you. Can you acknowledge that?

Yes.

Okay, good. Now?

But I need him to stop being paranoid because then we gotta move forward.

Do you want to continue to live like this?

No, I gotta get, I'm very paranoid.

Yeah.

Very paranoid. I don't go outside. He has to get rid of it. I don't do, I don't, I go on the trains, I start sweating, I'm nervous.

Which is why she, which makes sense now why she's saying that I'm trying to work and I'm trying to do these things so that you can stay at home. She's trying to do what she can to support you. And instead of you seeing that, oh my gosh, my woman is actually out there trying to allow me to heal and be better, you're accusing her. I need to give you that justification so that way the next time you have this behavior, you can realize that what she's doing, she's sticking by your side so that you have the time so you can get better. She hasn't left you. Through all these accusations and through everything else, Any other woman would've left you. She's staying with you. You have a blessing right here that you are pushing away. And I understand when you have extreme paranoia, sometimes things are not clear in your mind. And so I'm trying to give you language that you can hold onto so the next time you feel like, oh my gosh, my wife is setting me up. Oh my gosh, my wife is doing this. You can remind yourself, no, my wife is actually on my side. You can channel that paranoia to something else so that way she can actually be the support system that you need.

Need, yes.

Do you get that?

Yes. If he don't change, then we gonna have to, 'cause it's gonna be hard on the children.

Exactly, exactly.

And once I say I'm done, it's gonna be I'm done.

Yeah.

And it's not gonna be fair to the children. 'Cause I want a two-family household.

Do you wanna lose those kids? No. Do you wanna see your kids disrespecting your wife?

No.

So then I understand that you're in a state right now mentally where you're not clear on why you're making these choices, but you're going to have to just try a little bit harder as you're on that journey to get the help you need. I heard you say that you almost passed. Clearly those traumatic events are causing you some type of PTSD that you're still emotionally scarred from and you feel like this could happen at any time. We wanna be here to support you, but as you're on that journey to support you, you can give it up for him, yeah. We wanna be here to support you.

But he has to be willing to change.

But you gotta be willing to try to make some changes.

Yeah, I'm his wife, I love him.

As you're on that process, you gotta be willing to make some changes. What's making you emotional? I know, I know, I know.

I had guns on my head.

I know.

I was almost dead. Like, they was gonna shoot me right in the head. Boom.

I know.

God.

I know.

They was taking my life. Like, they was gonna take it.

That's why I said I—

But you know what? God got me outta there.

I quickly realized there's PTSD. God got me outta there. I really, I realized quickly.

They was about to kill me.

I get it. I get it.

Not once, but like twice.

And it's up here and it's sticking with that and you're projecting.

Right. Tie me up. Gun to my head like this. And I love you.

Come here, come here, come here. I love you.

I would've been dead right now.

Come here, come here, come here. I really am Karamo. You're safe. You're safe. You're safe. Sit next to your wife. You're safe. You're safe right now. You're safe. You're safe.

I was almost out of it.

You're safe. You're safe.

You gonna stop abusing me?

We're gonna try to get the help for you, but you've gotta commit to stop abusing your wife. You gotta commit. Can you make that commitment to make therapy?

Yeah, sure. I'm gonna stop doing everything. Stop accusing you, repeating you. I just wanna get the help.

I'm so sorry that you're experiencing this, but thank you for being a good wife. Thank you for being a good mother. And I'm gonna wish you all the best of luck, but we gonna try to figure out something backstage, okay? All right. Yes. Thank you for being here. You're welcome. So tell me the problems that you're having with Miko.

Pretty much Miko is the type of, he gets mad and denies his kids. He know his kids is his kids. He real narcissistic, likes to flip stuff on him, double standard. You know, he out here being a hoe and he just think just 'cause he doing it, I'm doing it or whatever the case may be. That's not the case.

So that's where the doubts come from, that double standard?

Yeah. He might see somebody in my phone or something like that and then he just automatically get mad. Oh, you're not my kids. But how is that possible if I was with you every day?

How was your relationship with Miko in the beginning?

It was fine. It was great.

How old were y'all when y'all met?

We met when we were freshmen in high school, but like I didn't talk to him 'cause I had my own situation going on.

Yeah.

But we ended up start talking like 2020 when COVID first happened.

Got it. So once you met him, how was the relationship?

I mean, it was cool. Like, I mean, like he was still cheating and stuff, but like, but you know, like I ain't find that out till a little bit after. But still, it was cool for the most part. Mm-hmm.

How did you know he was cheating?

I found out through one of his family members. Oh, wow. Yeah, it was on some sneaky stuff. He turned off his location. She ended up telling me, "This is what he's doing." Mm-hmm. And yeah.

I know you're calm now, but I really wanna go back to that moment because—

Oh, I was pissed.

Yeah, you were pissed.

Yeah, 'cause I was minding my business. He didn't have to come bother me.

Yeah. It was his ex that he was cheating on you with?

Yep.

So that was sort of like a double whammy because now—

Exactly, because I was going through the phone and everything and I never see them texts, not one message, not nothing. So it was just crazy how he was cheating on me and I was going through the phone. It was a lot.

Did you know that he was cheating before you got pregnant by him?

Well, with my first child, we were kind of on and off, but we still lived together. So it was like, I didn't find out he was cheating, cheating until we broke up and moved outta the house together. And then I found out and it was just like, Damn.

Wham after the wham.

Yeah, 'cause like I just found out I was pregnant and now I'm finding out all this other shit.

Okay, so I want you to walk me through the timeline of your relationship.

Yeah, I got pregnant in like October and then we moved outta the house together. I found out I was pregnant November 16th. That same day he went and got Jamesia pregnant, his ex pregnant. Wow. Yeah. Then when I, yeah, 'cause I had my son June 15th and then she ended up having her baby a couple weeks apart. And then I got pregnant again in April of last year.

I'm looking at this timeline. So he's official with her 2016?

Yeah, and then they broke up around like the end of 2019. And then we got together in March of 2020.

She has a baby, you start dating, both women find out they're pregnant. Then you both have, Diamond and Jamesha have his second and third child. You have his fourth child.

Yes, my baby 2 months old. I just had a baby.

So you just had a child with him?

Yeah.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. Congratulations.

Thank you.

Yeah. Wait, so the day you told him that you were pregnant, he went and got another woman pregnant?

Yeah, basically. His dad? Basically. I found that out like a couple of days before my birthday or something like that.

Yeah.

And it was just like, damn, like you just, you out here making kids for fun. I couldn't even enjoy my pregnancy.

Like I had it for fun, yeah.

It was, I don't know, 'cause. Yeah, it was my first pregnancy and I couldn't even enjoy it. It was depressing. It's supposed to be a happy time. It was not happy. It was depressing. I was sad. I didn't do nothing.

Yeah.

Nothing.

What did Meco say when you confronted him about cheating?

Well, the first time that he cheated on me, I confronted him about it and he was just real nonchalant with it. Like, "It wasn't supposed to happen, da da da da." But come on now, you grown. That's your baby mom. You knew what you was doing.

And how did you find out that Jamesha was pregnant?

He told me.

He told you?

Yeah, he texted me and told me like, "I did something." I was like, "What?" He like, "You gonna be mad." Common sense gonna tell you it's a baby.

Yeah, yeah. So you already, you already assumed.

Yeah, I'm not dumb.

Meka was playing you and Jamesha against each other at the beginning, I heard. How so?

Because he would, like when we were both pregnant, he would be like, "Jamesha said this. She said that my baby wasn't his and I was doing this, that, and the third." But that shit was impossible 'cause I was with him every day. And then he would do the same to her. Like, Diamond said this, that, and that there. But I'm like, I didn't even talk about her. I was not worried about her at all.

So why did you call him a deadbeat dad?

'Cause he don't do for his kids. He think buying diapers, wipes, a little milk is doing something. No, no. Babies need clothes, shoes, food, the whole nine. Oh, that's the baby. Aw, look at my baby.

Is that the 2-month-old?

No, that's my 1-year-old.

That's your 1-year-old?

Yeah, he was just a little baby.

Oh, he's adorable. Oh my God. That is so cute with the cookies. Stop playing, that's adorable.

Look at, that's my baby, baby.

So why does he deny that that could be his child?

Because he's a hoe. Like he's a hoe. He out doing whatever he wanna do, messing with the whole city. I don't do nothing. I stay to myself, mind my business. I might text a little here and there, but I don't even do nothing.

Well, you got children, so you're busy. I wanna confirm, you're 21?

Yes.

Okay, 21 years old. So you were secretly both dating Diamond and Jamesia at the same time. Take me back to that moment.

It wasn't really a secret. Yes, it was. They knew. No, we didn't. They knew. Not at first, no, we didn't. They knew. You was sneaking around. We was both pregnant. You was sneaking around. They knew. You was trying to back and forth. I was. No, no, no. Oh, they knew. Look at you trying to lie. No, they knew.

What went through your mind when you learned that both women were pregnant? What was your reaction to that?

I was very, very, very—

The word better be terrified 'cause you was probably what, 18 at the time?

Yeah, I was gonna say.

It had to be terrified.

I wouldn't say terrified, but more so on the scared side. Scared for what?

Scared. Okay.

A lot of children. You knew what you was doing. You knew what you was doing, so I don't know why you so scared.

Take me back to that moment.

I couldn't believe it, put it like that. I didn't, I couldn't believe it.

Yeah. Your actions finally caught up with you. So since then you said to my producers, and I wanna quote this, "I question my youngest kids a lot because my exes were dating multiple people." Who was that dating?

They were outside. Take that dating part back. They were outside though. They were outside.

Oh, they were outside. So they weren't dating other people, they were outside.

They were talking to other people outside. Mm-hmm. I don't know what they was doing.

So why aren't you helping Diamond co-parent your sons?

'Cause he worried about what I gotta do and what I be doing. No. Yes, it is.

No.

You pick and choose when you wanna be around.

I do.

No, you don't. Only thing I might say that I don't get, that I don't do, is the getting my kids every other week part because we literally just stopped being, I ain't gonna say we literally like just stopped being around each other, but it hasn't been as long as they're trying to make it seem like I wasn't, like I don't still, I can't, I don't see my kids.

From your point of view, how long has it been?

The last time he did something with his kids was like the last month, the beginning of March, and he took 'em to Chuck E. Cheese for like an hour and that's about it.

So when was the last time you think you saw your kids? Was it that March?

No. Oh no, he's seen them like a couple days ago, but I'm saying doing something with 'em, yeah. I'm saying like last month.

Doing stuff with them. So I think the frame of question needs to be then, when was the last time that you did sort of like things that a father does? Appointments, taking, picking 'em up from daycare, bringing 'em around. Okay, okay, okay.

I admit I have not been to no appointments. I've picked them up from daycare and take them to daycare.

That is a lot. Can I ask you, what does being an involved father look like for you?

Being around your kids, taking 'em places, you know, giving them their needs. You don't always have to get 'em their wants. You might not have it all the time.

So by your definition, are you being a good father right now?

I'm growing into one.

Okay, well you just said earlier, which I wrote this down, you said just because they had babies, they want me to drop everything. But your specific words were, they want me to be the mom. That's very specific.

Yes, they want me to sit with them all day, every day, and so they can go live their free life. You never have. You live your free life every day. You go out to clubs, take your bitches out, do the whole vibe. They want to live their free life. That's all it is. You might sit with them for an hour and that's it. We're there in front of your face.

Do you still have romantic feelings for Miko?

No, not at all.

Okay.

I don't either. I'm so glad to hear that.

For neither.

I actually talked to a whole different person. Yeah, okay.

Are you still intimate with him?

No. What?

Are you? I don't know if I believe that. When was the last time?

Yesterday. Okay.

Yesterday. So your new girl at home, when she watches this, does she know?

Makes me pissed. Oh well, she already know he's a hoe. Makes me pissed you're a clown.

What do you think? 'Cause you're in the middle of this and now you're about to be in the middle of a third woman hearing that you've been cheating.

I don't recall. You don't recall? You just said you got a— I do not recall. You don't recall? I was getting a rash yesterday. I was not being with nothing they talking about. I was on the phone with my producer the whole time trying to get change rooms and everything.

Okay. You said, for some reason I believe her. I don't think she'd come on here and say that you all had sex and just be lying for no reason. Okay. Yeah. I don't think any of us think that she's lying.

Okay.

Yeah. So you said Miko hasn't stepped up as a father. Who has supported you?

My mom.

Your mom has?

And she has been around too.

Yeah. Diamond, y'all two support each other?

Yeah, we raised our kids together.

So how did you two get past that drama? For anybody else who's watching, She's watching and needs to understand that.

It was just basically like, we linked it, we was about to fight a couple of times. But it was just like, yeah. It was just, we ended up talking about something totally different. Yeah, we ended up seeing like he was just doing the same, he was telling us literally the same thing, doing the exact same thing to both of us, like literally. So that's why we didn't fight. Why would we fight over a boy that's gonna keep doing us both dirty and doing the same thing to us?

Got it. Jamisha, so what do you need from Migo today?

I just need him to just step up as a, like, yeah, call the kids every day. Tell them you love them. Yes, tell them you love them. Keep the kids every other weekend. Like, we need a break too. You not the only one. 'Cause he swear, but now we be outside. Be outside, like. What the fuck?

So Miklo, if these are your kids, can you be a better father?

Yes.

You can?

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

I hope to see you.

Well, let's, I think it's time we just jump right into this because.

Please do. Yes.

It's time to solve the DNA mystery. For these 4 kids. And so before we, I reveal the outcome of the DNA, Meka, are you ready to understand and finally hear this truth?

Yeah.

So Jamesha, here are the outcome for your 2 daughters. So it has been confirmed that Jamyra is your child.

But he already knew that. You knew that though. You already knew that.

We're talking about Jaleah now, right? Beautiful name. It's been confirmed that Jaleiah is your child as well.

But you knew that. You knew that. Like I said.

One more question.

Like I said, like I said, you already know. Like I said. Yeah, I just proved my point to everybody.

All right.

Thank you.

So Diamond, here are the answers for your sons. So when it comes to My'Kaysen, it has been confirmed that My'Kaysen is your child.

That's for you.

And when it comes to little Miko, It has been confirmed that that is your child as well.

I knew that. You said.

Come back out here. Come back out here. Come back out here. You gotta face this. You facing this.

No, no, no, no.

It's all right. You can talk to me. I'm truly here to help you.

It ain't nothing. It's just, you know. He just don't know how to express how he feel. We be talking about it. He's just talking about the past. I don't like talking about the past.

I know. But what you gotta understand is that that past that you're not talking about is directly affecting your present and will affect your future. And it will also affect these kids' future. Do you feel loved? No. I got it. Who do you feel loves you? Jim, just give me a hug for a little bit. All right. For you to be able to be a better co-parent, you gotta be able to talk about this. For you to make better decisions, you gotta be able to talk about this. If I was to figure out how to get you therapy, would you go? Yeah? Okay, I'm gonna give you therapy. All right? Yes. Because I do know in your heart of hearts, you wanna create the family you didn't have. And I do know you wanna be a good dad. That's why you're working. And you're trying to give what you know how to do. You're trying to provide. I see it. I ain't gonna beat you down. I know that's what you're trying to give. I know it is. But once you start healing that stuff that is bothering you, and once you start to get these tools, you will be a better dad for them. Now, young women, you all as well, I applaud y'all, okay?

Thank you.

I applaud y'all because y'all are doing the best y'all could do.

Yeah, I'm trying.

But, and I love that y'all are building each other up, I love that y'all are supporting each other, but the intimacy with him has to stop.

For sure.

Seriously. Because what's happening is y'all are getting distracted by the fact that y'all are supporting each other and not realizing that by y'all still engaging in intimate relationship with him, y'all are actually taking away that credibility y'all building up for yourselves. Y'all are taking away from that strength that y'all have. Y'all are taking away from your own self-respect. Because at the end of the day, for you to be that confident and know that she's still sleeping with him and that he's sleeping with another woman, it takes away from the woman we know you are. We see the woman you are. We see the woman that you're about to grow into. But if you keep making those little small choices because you're comfortable with him, because you don't wanna raise your body count, come on, you know better. You too smart. You too smart. Just because you 21, I can see the intelligence in both of y'all. I can see it. Y'all can see the intelligence in them, right? So we not about to sit here and pretend like y'all not intelligent, but y'all gotta make better choices.

Yeah.

Y'all gotta make better choices.

I agree.

You agree? For sure.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Your 4-year-old is gonna start to recognize this is the behavior mommy has.

Yeah, so she gonna think she gonna have to reciprocate and that's not that. You already know.

You already know. Can you just turn to these women and say, "I'm gonna work on me so I can be a better father." I'm gonna work on me and be a better father. There we go. My guest Quanay reached out to the show asking for my help with her mommy issues. She says her mom Nicole chose drugs, alcohol, and sex work over being a mother. Quanay's angry and she wants answers from her mother. Everyone, please welcome Quanay to the show.

Hi, Quanay.

All right.

May I have a hug? Yes.

You so beautiful. Thank you. Nice to meet you, Quani.

Nice to meet you too.

Yes, okay. So you told my producers you're coming here 'cause you're standing up for that 12-year-old little girl.

Yes, I'm here.

I love that.

Yes, I'm here because I finally wanna confront my mother just about everything that she's put me through and what we've been through. And I'm finally ready to address, yeah, the 12-year-old girl that's outta here because I still feel hurt and abandoned and confused. By a lot of things that's went on in my life.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what were you told about your mom when you were younger?

Well, when I was younger, I was told that she was a crackhead, quite frankly. I was told that she just wasn't around. I wasn't really given a reason why, a specific reason. And I would just always be told, you're gonna be just like your mom. That's how you're gonna be. You're gonna be just like your mom. And I hated hearing that 'cause I felt like it was a title put on me that I didn't even know about, nor did I want at such a young age. And slowly but surely, becoming an adult, I felt myself becoming just like my mom, you know what I mean? In certain aspects.

Yeah. What was it like growing up without your mom for you?

Well, for me growing up, I grew up in the group home system. I grew up in residential treatment facilities. It was very hard. It was very rough, especially feeling like I didn't have anybody to call on. You know, who was gonna love me? Who was gonna care about me when I was going through things? I've been in—

Oh, you're adorable.

Yeah, I was in swimming and— I did karate and I did so many things. And where was she for all of these things that I've done in my life? For certain, even as an adult, certain advice I want or who to ask for how to make an appointment or how to change a diaper. I had to find all that stuff through myself and Google. I didn't have my mom. And that hurts, especially seeing my friends. They had their moms. Why don't I have my mom? And the older I got, the more I questioned it. You know what I mean? Especially just being in the group home setting, especially, and you see all these other kids that don't have anything and you start to feel like I don't have anything either. Especially when the one person that you want is out sleeping with who God knows who and doesn't even care about you.

So things were tough?

Yes, they were very tough.

Yeah, yeah, I can imagine. So what do you need from your mom?

From my mom right now, I need for her to acknowledge the fact that she was not available for me. Emotionally, or in any aspect of my life. I need answers for why did you choose prostitution or drugs over your children? Why did you keep having children after you knew that you couldn't take care of the one that you already had? Why did you feel like, why do you feel like even now you can be clean or get better and not address everything else that's happened before you getting clean?

First of all, congratulations on your sobriety.

Thank you.

That's really big. One year sober now?

16 months.

16 months. Congratulations. Yeah. So obviously, you know, your daughter feels like you messed her life up. How do you feel about that?

I understand because I felt the same way with my mother.

Yeah.

I can't make up for what I did to her in the past. Honestly, the way I grew up, I heard everything in the back and pretty much the way that I was raised, my grandmother raised me, you know, in a house where some things happened that I wasn't allowed to talk about. I became very promiscuous, my father had got killed. It's not about my mom though, but it's not about that, that's what I'm saying. And this is what happens every time, we go into my mom and her story, but it's not about, we're not here for that, we're here to talk about me. That's what we were getting to. But we not though, Mom, I just wanna hear about me. I've heard your story so many times, I can, But you wanna know why I was not there. Yeah, I do wanna know that. Why did I hurt you? Now, Kwane, I don't know. I was not there because I didn't know how to be there for myself. My mother was a crack addict.

How old were you when you had your son?

I was 15.

And you were, she was how old when you had her?

I was 16.

Do you feel unjustly blamed?

I kind of feel misunderstood. How can you feel misunderstood? Like who doesn't? But that's what I'm saying, by who? By who? Who miss out? Why do y'all feel more misunderstood than me? How do you feel misunderstood, more misunderstood than me? Mom, I've been in places, I was getting raped. Do you understand that? My first, I was in church. How you had this story in church? I was molested in church. That was my first sexual experience in church. Was beating on us and was beating on us. You was never there, Mommy. This is real. Exactly. So you knew that and you never tried to get yourself clean to get me. What about me? Y'all, you left me in that house for all that time. I was nobody. And this is not a This is real shit. I feel like, I'm sorry for cursing. I can't even say how I wanted to say it at home because I felt like we would argue and fight. Mom, you was never there for me at all. How am I supposed to look at my friends and say this is my mom?

Did you ever try to get her back around that time?

No, I didn't feel capable of being able to take care of my kids. I didn't feel capable. I didn't feel that I had the ability. And that's just not right. It's not right. It's not right. I went through stuff with drugs too. I had problems too. Why am I supposed to— You was unjustly blamed or misunderstood when nobody understands me, Mom. Nobody gets me and how I'm hurt. You don't understand me. You don't.

Why do you think you do?

You telling me I don't. You telling me you can't speak for me. All right, Mom.

You can't speak for me. Why do you feel like she doesn't understand?

'Cause it's always about my mom. It's always about her. Why you can't say, "She wild," or, "I'm sorry," or, "I understand what happened to you." Why you gotta just bad combat me with something else? She did the same thing to me too. Okay, we had the same experience. How can we work through that? Like, don't make it seem like it's just always reverse back to my mom.

Nicole, has Quanay ever told you about this before?

No, but I already knew how she felt, so I'm not surprised. I don't understand why am I here? Because I don't feel like, you know, like this is not gonna get resolved.

Well, you haven't watched this show before.

Okay, I don't.

This is a place where my intention is always to heal. So I hear both sides and I'm hearing you. What is it that you need from your mom?

What I want from my mom is just my mom to understand after we leave this show, we can still, you know, we can talk about what's going on. I want her to know and understand what I've been through and just how can we work on moving past it? How can we work on being a mother and a daughter? I want to build a relationship with my mom. I want to have my mom back, but I don't know how to.

Nicole, you told my producers that you feel like Quanay's responsible for her choices. What do you feel?

No, what I do feel is I'm sorry. I can't make up for what happened. I can't. If I could go back and rearrange her whole family setup, I would, but I can't. I hear that. Only thing I can do is I can be there for you now. I don't have a problem with Quanay. I love you. I don't know how to be a mom. I'm still learning, I don't know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I don't know, Kwane.

Can you hear your mom right now?

I don't know all these things. I'm learning as I go. I would learn from other women, watching them with their kids too. I'm sorry.

Can you look at your mom?

I'm so sorry, Kwane. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I know that won't get, that won't take away the pain that you feel. I don't know what else to do but pray. I heard you say, "Oh, Miss Pray." Yes. Because that's what worked me through. That's what helped me not hating my mom for so long. Some things is generational. It's just, I think it's a generational curse.

Yeah. You want your mom?

I do, I do, I really do. I really do.

What does wanting your mom look like for you?

Just having somebody to call, somebody to talk to, and just a friend, 'cause I don't have that at all. I don't have nobody. Other than your mother? It's just me. It's just me, and it's been like that for so long. I'm tired. It's just been me this whole time. Who's supposed to love me? Who's supposed to care about me? Who's supposed to do that for me? Me, I've been doing it all this time and I'm hurt.

I know.

I'm hurt bad.

Kwane, 26 years, 26 years you've been holding on to pain. Your mother is here telling you she wants to love you. And I know it's hard for you to believe it because it was 26 years, but she's actually in a clear state of mind and she's telling you, I'm sorry, that she loves you, that she's here, that she understands. Understands. For once, what that little girl's wanting is here. And I know it's here. I know it's here. And the reason I know it's here is because when your mother just saw the pain in you, she didn't sit there, she got up. Do you wanna be there for her?

I do. I'm still learning, but I'm willing.

I know you learning. This is the thing that you need to understand, and I think this is gonna give some clarity and help you. Because in your mind, you want the mom you saw everybody else have. You want it. And she's saying to you, "I can get there one day, but I'm still learning right now." But the little 12-year-old girl in you, rightfully so, wants her here right now.

Yes, 'cause that little girl is scared, confused. She don't know how to do anything. She is hurt. She's down bad. And she was looking for her mom.

I gotta tell you this.

She was in placement. She was being raped and molested and whatever. Where was my mom?

But I gotta tell you this.

Where was my mom?

I gotta tell you this. I gotta tell you this. I gotta tell you this, Kwame. Come here, baby. I gotta tell you this. Get it out. Get it out. Get it out. Get it out. Get it out. Get it out.

Get it out. That's all I wanted was my mom.

I get it. She is hearing you and she's also here for you right now. And I know you are beating yourself up inside. I know you are, but she's here. And what I think you need to understand is two main things. Is first, I understand now, I get it. You want her to acknowledge what you're feeling. You want her to express what you're feeling. When she's talking about her pain, I don't think she's trying to discredit your pain. She's trying to help you to understand that it's her way of expressing to you that she's still learning. And so I want you to hear that. So next time she's saying that, know that she's not saying this because she's trying to invalidate you. She's trying to actually let you in. Am I right?

Yes. Absolutely. You said it perfect.

She's trying to let you in.

So she can understand that I understand.

She's literally been listening and saying that she wants to hear you and she's been validating. I promise you, if she wasn't, I would've been the first one to tell her. But she's validating you. She's saying she's here for you. She loves you. You understand? You kept saying, "No one has the answers. Who knows what I could be? Don't know where I will go. I feel lost." These were your words that I kept writing down. And I understand that, little girl. That says she doesn't know how to do anything and she's scared about what's tomorrow gonna bring. But your mother's here now. And as she's learning, y'all can learn together. Are you willing to learn with her?

Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Are you willing to let her learn with you?

I do. I love my mom.

But I'm gonna tell you something. I wrote these things out as well because I also need to tell you that you wrong. You keep saying, "I don't know what I could be. I don't know where I will go." Yes, you do. Trust and believe, you do know where you're going. We are both impressed by you.

Thank you. She's a wonderful mother.

Did you just hear what she just said?

Thank you. Did you hear her? Yes, yes, she is.

You told me out here that people were saying to you, you're like your mama and that started to hurt you and you feel like I became her. Your mother just said, no, no, no, no, you're a wonderful mother.

She is.

You have been the master of your destiny since day one. You are stronger and smarter than you even imagine.

Oh, she is.

You hear your mama right now?

Yes.

She's not talking about her story. She's right now saying you are smarter. You hear her?

Yes. Maybe she writes poetry.

Look at your mama talking about you. She's talking about you. She's here now and she hears you. You can look at her.

I know, it's just hard.

I know, I know.

I understand, Ine.

She hears you. And next time you feel that pain, and next time you feel like you wanna like scream at the world, scream. But then remind yourself, My mother's here and she hears me.

I hear you.

You ready? You can get closer to your mom. You can get closer to your mom.

You can get closer.

You don't gotta be distant now. It's okay. You don't gotta be distant now. She there for you. You understand? Mm-hmm. I think y'all gonna be able to take a first step. She knows now. I see the curses being broken between you all. I see the growth between you all and I'm proud of it. Y'all see it too? We see y'all and I applaud you. I applaud you. I applaud you. I'm gonna give you your flowers. Listen, girl, if you learn nothing else, you better not ever walk outta here and say, I don't know what tomorrow's gonna be. Thank you. You hear me?

Yes.

You better not ever, because you know what it is. Don't ever. Yes. You talked about you don't know if that little girl can be an Olympian. She still can be because I feel like whatever you put your mind to will happen.

Yes. Seriously. Thank you, Karamo. Thank you so much.

But I also applaud you because I know the journey you've been on. I know how addiction, when it has you for 26 years plus, how that can hurt you. And I can see even in one, 16 months, good job. Good job. Yes.

Good job.

Together, y'all are gonna be amazing.

For sure. Yeah. I wish y'all the best of luck.

Give your mama one more hug.

She here. She here.

Give your mama a hug. I heard you say to my producer, you think your mom needs to grow up. Those are like very specific words. How is she showing you that she still acts like a child?

She basically, she doesn't do things a mother's supposed to do. She doesn't, you know, lead us. It's like she's following us like we're the adults, you know? She asks us for things to support her habits. When we don't have it, you know, it's, "Oh, I hate you. Y'all selfish." You know, stuff like that.

So you feel like if she doesn't get what she wants, she says she lashes out?

Yes.

Okay. Tell me about her posts on social media.

It's a lot. She puts on there she hates us. We drove her to do drugs.

Your mother wrote, "I see what my trouble has been all these years." "Children, I'm telling the whole Florida state I'm gonna make news for real if any one of my daughters raise their hand up to hit me. They all have done some very disrespectful blank to me. Tried to act like I am the problem. Drove me to drinking, drugging, and prison." Your mother feels as if you all are the issue.

Yes.

Okay, what is your response to that? 'Cause I see that made you emotional.

Yes, it takes a lot 'Cause we've been dealing with this all our life. She's been in and outta prison all of our life, you know, putting men before us. It's just been so much, you know? So it's just like, I don't even know how to respond to that. It's like I'm immune to it, you know?

Yeah.

It's, this is what she say all the time when we can't be there for her. Yeah. To support her habits. Like we're, we're grown. We don't have to do anything for you.

Yeah. Tell me about your mom's temper.

Her temper?

Yeah.

She has a temper. She gets very angry. And I'm not gonna sit up here and act like I'm innocent. I have said some things that I should have never said. But as a mom, you lead me the right way. I didn't have that.

Have you ever told her that? Like you feel like she doesn't love you?

I can't.

Because what happens when you try to talk to her?

She overtalks you. She don't wanna listen.

What happens when you try to express your feelings at all? Does she hear you at all?

No.

Even when you were a kid, did she hear you?

She wasn't really there as a kid. We was always with my aunts. Like she was always in prison. The little time we did have, you know, I'm not trying to say she's the worst mom, you know, but it's just like, it's no getting through to her. It's her way or no way.

Yeah. You seem like you're being cautious right now. Is it because you know your mom's about to come out?

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Well, I know your fiancé, Will, is here in the audience with us. Will, how you doing?

Stand up for me, Will.

So this is your wife. I know you're at home with her. How's this affecting your wife? It's gotten pretty bad. Yeah. Like when I first met Malika, their relationship was kind of like rocky, so I used to always ask her like, you know, why your relationship so messed up with your mom? You know, why you do her like that? Because like I told everybody else, I come from a two-parent household, you know, I'm a mama's boy. I love my mom to death. So, like, so, you know, as they would go through certain things, I was just like, you know, don't do your mom like that, you know, give her a chance. You know, let her come, maybe she'll come around eventually. Like, but you know, as time got like kept going past and I've been with her 5 years. So for 5 years it just got worse, you know? And like, it's crazy because when her mom did go to prison last time and I was with her, we had her kids, her mom's kids. And like, you praised us, you loved everything we did for your kids. Like— What's interesting is that you actually, from what I just heard, were taking up for the mother saying, please be nicer to her, please do these things.

They were like this.

I always been on her mom's side since day one. We actually had a pretty good, cool bond before all this stuff started happening. I don't know if she feel like we owe her something or what the case may be, but everything used to be good. Thank you, Will, I appreciate that. Thank you for your perspective. So what do you want from your mom?

I need her to learn accountability. I need her to, I mean, I would love an apology and I would give her one as well. I really want my mom to get help. I just don't want nobody to hurt her or her to get hurt, you know, 'cause her anger. I really want her to get help and me too, you know, 'cause this has affected me a lot.

Yeah, I can imagine. All right everyone, well listen, I'm here with Malika who says her mom Michelle needs to change her violent behavior before it destroys their family. And I wanna hear what Michelle has to say about all of this. Everyone, please welcome Michelle to the show.

First of all, I love you. If this building catch on fire, this will be the first one I save. Let me say that first. I said that too. This my child, I love her. I love you, I would never. And for you, for you, we here in the right spot for me to talk to you. Yes, I deal with a lot of anger issues because it didn't start with me. It didn't. So why is it with your children though? Your children, you say you hate your children. She got her time to talk. You said you hate your children, though. Where did that come from? I would never stand on my two feet and tell my kids I hate them. She had her time to talk.

Let me hear your perspective.

Let me speak.

Yes, I would love to hear your perspective.

I'm talking to him right now. Okay, he don't have nothing to do with me and your relationship. He shouldn't even stood up, 'cause he already know the issue. What's the issue? First off, you know what?

What's the issue?

I'm gonna tell you something. You know why I'm angry? Because I had them, I pushed them out. So we owe you something? You owe me to do right. I'm doing right. I'm not in jail, I'm not in jail, I'm not doing drugs. I'm doing shit right. You do drugs. I'm doing drugs right now. She stole my car as an adult. Oh my God. She stole my car as an adult. What have you done? Accountability, accountability.

Let me do this, because the thing is, if you really want my help, I have to hear her side. So please tell me your side.

First of all, I got 6 girls and 1 son. Split me down in 6 pieces, I'll be good, okay? But when you have children, I'm out there fighting battles that's not mine. 'Cause you wanna hang with your daddy. Would you hush? That's your problem. That's your problem. She got one spanking all her life. And when she stole my car, that was the second one. I never stole my car. At 20-something years old. I should've been whooping her. You're very disrespectful. How you expect me to respect you when you don't respect me? Never, Del. Never. I've been to prison. I've been to prison 3 times. Ask them why. Why? Y'all keep me in some shit. You been in prison before we was even grown. Y'all keep me in some shit. Well, that was from my sister the first time. Okay, come on now. But the second time and the third time, these damn kids out there fighting everybody. But you're, particularly her. So now running around with a gun trying to kill everybody about you. 'Cause you don't know how to look out. Excuse me now. You don't know how to act properly. There's no exception when guys are beating you up. Oh my God, why are you hanging with your kids anyway? Mr. Karamo. Mr. Karamo. Grow up. The police let me come through. They were at the bar fighting. Mm-hmm. Oh my God, because your daughter that's on drugs jumped on you and I tried to help you. Listen. Let's be real. She don't want to see your problem.

Let's be real.

You feel entitled, bro. I feel entitled? How? How? How I feel entitled? I don't know, you tell me how.

I don't know if you noticed, I sat quiet here for a very specific reason because I can tell, I understand, I see a lot of the patterns from your own past, the things I'm listening to, language of protection. I'm listening to what you've been doing because I wanna make sure you know that I'm hearing you first of all, and then I see you.

Now I gotta listen.

And so I wanted to make sure that you had a point where you didn't feel like you had to defend, defend, defend, that you could just say, this is my piece. This is my story. So do you, you can acknowledge that you have a temper?

Absolutely.

I want to, because now that I've heard you, I think I can navigate this better with you and Malika. But I have to ask you, if I bring her back out, would you be able to do it?

I ain't finna do nothing to my child.

I know you not.

I just want her to see her, I want her to self-reflect. Mm-hmm. I'm not going for anything. I ain't no more.

So are you ready to repair your relationship with her if I can help that?

If you can.

Yes.

But see, I ain't on drugs no more. It's a difference. See, I'm gonna tell you, when you on drugs, you think stupid.

But you're clear now.

I'm clear now. And see, I'm gonna tell you something, and this is God's honest truth. You can't make me shame 'cause I do that enough for myself. Understand me? So ain't no child gonna come in my life and grow up, and I watch you grow up, I know your fears, I know what you courageous in, I know what you capable of, what you were doing to make me feel like garbage. You can't do that because I am who I am.

Okay.

And I admit every wrong that I've done.

Before I bring your daughter back out here, can I ask you for one thing? I already know. Just one thing. Yeah. What's one thing?

I ain't finna do that.

The thing I'm gonna ask you for is can I give you a hug?

Oh yeah, you handsome as though.

Okay, that's really what I want.

Thank you, thank you. Oh, you smell so good.

Thank you, I appreciate it.

Drain up your soup now. Got me all flushed and stuff.

All right, I'm gonna bring your daughter back out.

Well, what you wanna do about this situation? You wanna keep being mad or you wanna accept the fact that I'm your mom? I'm not mad. And I gotta accept the fact that you're my adult daughter. I'm not mad. I'm mad.

Why are you mad? What are you mad about? Express it.

I'm mad because after all the years you know me, how could you think I'm disloyal? I never thought you were disloyal. How could you count me out of my solidness, bro? No, Ma, it's just some things you do, you don't know how to handle things. I never was taught to handle it the right way. And this is why I'm trying to teach you. You know you can learn from your kids too. Absolutely, I learn every day from y'all. I learned from my son. I'm trying to teach you it's more than places than Clearwater, Florida. I'm trying to teach you it's more than what you're doing. I don't get it. You talk, Malika, you know I done been to places. But it's like, Mom, you are the best father. I can't follow somebody that's acting blind. No, I'm not blind. I'm blind now. I said that's acting blind. But listen to me. I'm sweating and my nose running and my eyes watering and all kind of stuff, Lord.

We got you. We got you, we got you.

I still look good.

You still look good.

Okay. Communication. Well, I don't know how to talk. Yes, you do. You been out there talking all day. I have? Yes. Why you brought me way up here? Because you need to get away from Florida, that's why. Yeah, we— Well, I don't like what's going on Mom, I told you I did what I had to do as a mother. You took her to the doctor for real? I got all her paperwork. I had to violate my daughter. They did, I gave the hospital your number. They say you did not answer.

So I think this one, 'cause that's a big piece of contention for y'all. I think when y'all get home, show her that her grandbaby is protected. That's what she just needs to know. Show her, say, look, I took her to the doctor. These are the things. Because then that absolves this relationship and this chaos that y'all got going on there.

I don't want this to stop from when we go home. I don't want this just 'cause it's here. I want it to go with us. I told them that.

Your mother, she said earlier that she only feels like you say you love her when you need something. You don't need anything right now. Can you tell your daughter I love her?

I love you. I love you too, Mom. I always loved you. Look, I'm gonna take it a step further. I'm gonna take it a step further. I need you to know that I love you, okay? And it scares me when I have to worry about y'all. I can't sleep. I be worried about my children.

Okay, I get it.

Because I done been their mama and their daddy all they life.

Yeah, you've been a fighter your life. You just know how to protect.

I love you. I know you do. We just got some things, but it feel good. This all feel good. It really do.

Yeah.

It really do. It really do. You know I don't mean no harm. I know. So why you get so, ugh, Hulk?

Well, listen.

Because when it come to my grandbaby, you didn't hear me.

I heard you, Mom. So that's why I said you gotta make sure that she knows the grandbaby's safe.

She needs to know. She know her grandma. She asks about her all the time.

I know, I know.

She knows. There's clarity. My poof.

And the communication has broken down, but I like that we're gonna start here. I do wanna do, can I offer this to you? A little therapy.

No. Yes. Yes.

Please. Because I know you—

Sometimes you gotta stay, be angry a little bit.

No, no. I think that they ain't good.

I've been quiet all my life. They used to bully me. I'm gonna bring it all out. They used to beat me up growing up, y'all.

I know. It ain't serving you no more.

You need professional help. But it don't bother me no more.

I know it don't.

And I need some therapy too.

You want that?

Yes.

'Cause I can get that for you too. Yeah?

I'll go. You'll go?

You'll go. You'll go.

I have been working on a lot, so.

Well, she said she need therapy, so she's admitting to it. I think that the love is here and the fact that you all are willing to get the therapy, that you're willing to go.

And I wanted to tell you thank you, Karamo, because a lot of people brush issues off like this, so they'll get it together. Some things you gotta let other people, you gotta hear somebody else. You gotta hear, and I like how you did. I like just the pleasantness of it. And you got deep down, you got to it, like take accountability.

I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you.

I know you like, "Oh, I ain't taking no accountability. I'm not, everything they fault." But no, you know, I like how you said it to me. 'Cause some people, the way they say things, and that's a part of my problem too, is how you say things.

I get it.

And you use the same tone. You might be mad and still have the same tone.

You know? Listen, I'm just here I'm happy that I could be here to support y'all. I really do think y'all are great, great, great women. And I think that there's just been a lot of pain here. I believe in y'all. Can y'all give it up for them for the work they just did? What was your experience like in foster care?

I was bullied. My hair was falling out. My grandma took pictures of bald spots.

There's a lot of pain and trauma. So I know you got out of foster care You were in foster care and you finally went back home. What made you leave home at 15?

I left because originally me and my mom had agreement. I sat her down, I said, "Stuff going on in the house, I can't deal anymore." Mm-hmm. And I wanna graduate high school. Every weekend I would go over to my grandmother's. Yes. And I would do homework. And this one particular night, my mom called my uncle and told my uncle, told him not to come, didn't let me know. So I was just sitting there waiting for hours. So I had made up a plan. She didn't care about whether I graduated high school, so I don't give a shit. I bundled up about 7 outfits and my laptop and put it in a trash bag and left that night.

Yeah.

And I never came back.

And you moved in with your grandmother at that time. And how was it living with your grandmother?

My mom had distanced me from my grandmother and I didn't know my grandfather had cancer.

All right, so it has been 15 years since you've had a conversation with your mom. I wanna know what is the one thing you want from her today?

I want to tell her everything that I didn't get a chance to tell her.

So you just needed her to hear you, that's it?

Yeah.

You don't need anything past that.

And I've struggled throughout my childhood for her to listen to me. 'Cause I used to sit down and tell her like, "Hey, I really want you to change. I don't want temporary fix." And right now, being a mother on my own, I just want to feel complete.

I know your mother was on drugs for many years. How many years of your life was she on drugs?

I would say for all of it.

All of it. And how old are you, if you don't mind me asking?

I'm 24.

So 24. So at least 24 years plus she's been on drugs. Do you still think she's using today?

Yeah.

You do still think she's using today. Has she ever made an effort during that time of 25 years to reconnect with you?

I would say yes and no, just because during the time when I left, first left, I cut all contact from my mom.

Has your mom never been involved in your daughter's life at all?

My daughter is 1 and I would say she hasn't really seen her over 5 times. My mom was not there at my baby shower. She wasn't there at the first, I didn't really even wanna tell her I was pregnant.

Yeah.

Because I figured like she didn't, she wouldn't care.

Does she have a relationship with you? Does your daughter have a relationship with your grandmother?

Yes.

Does your mother have a relationship with her mother, your grandmother?

Not really. My grandmom is the one who really is, the mediator between me and my mother.

I understand. What are the 3 things that you want your mom to hear you about today?

I wanna have a mother to mother conversation with her.

Yeah.

And I also wanna have a daughter to mother conversation with her.

Mm-hmm.

Certain things that I witnessed as a child, I should not have witnessed.

So that's a good thing. So you want her to know things I witnessed, I shouldn't have.

Things that I've gone through and situations that she had put me in with, you know, the men that she was dealing with. She put her children at risk. I want her to know that that's mother to mother, that is not okay. And I'm not going to do that to my daughter.

What is the second thing you want her to know?

I want her to know as a daughter, the life that she lived affected me.

In what way? A little clarity.

In what way? Emotionally, I was depressed. I didn't have guidance like I should've. Like I didn't even have, Being a mother now is so much things that I, like my grandma had to apologize to me because she didn't know that I didn't know certain things as a woman.

Because you didn't have the guidance.

Exactly.

Yeah.

It's not my fault for not knowing. But now that I do know, I'm going to teach my daughter.

Yeah. Yes. Give it up for that.

So.

Give it up.

I don't want my daughter to ever feel like she's alone.

What is the third thing you want her to know?

Just because you have a parent does not mean you be a parent.

So I wanna know what Haneefa's mother, Sarita, has to say about all this. Everyone please help me welcome Sarita to the show.

I've had a very traumatic life and my daughter has to understand that I didn't ask for my life to be like that. There were things that happened to me that I had no jurisdiction over would cause a lapse in having a relationship with her. I'm grateful that my mother, even though she had an addiction.

Your mother was addicted to drugs?

Yes, sir.

How long was she addicted?

Over 21 years or so.

Yes. So for the majority of your childhood, you grew up in a household where your mother was addicted to drugs?

Yes, sir.

Got it. When did you start using drugs?

Oh, I started at a young age, about 15. I truly apologized to her for some of the things that she had had to go through, but I never wanted her not to be educated. That's something that I always fought for. I always— Yo, you is really funnier right now. Always provided— Excuse me, you spoke. Give me respect. I am your mother now. Now you wanna use that title. If you wanna rekindle a relationship, you brought me here to try to embarrass me, you're embarrassing yourself. No, I did not come here to embarrass you. I've established a lot. But I want you to be real. You talking about yourself. My whole childhood you talking about yourself, bro. And you don't give a shit. It's not my fault. I don't care. You're not gonna fault me for that. That's like the magic bullet. I'm not biting the magic bullet. You are the only parent in the house, bro. I'm slow-bound. I'm not biting the magic bullet. You the only parent in the house, that's why I gotta do the shit I gotta do for my daughter. My brother was murdered and you're not gonna tell me that I was robbed at gunpoint. Why? Why you talking about yourself, bro? 'Cause you think you're being selfish right now. How? 'Cause you're screaming at me. You shouldn't, you should respect me.

Let her take a moment. We can have a conversation 'cause it's the pain, it's pain. So what I wanna do first of all is because I'm, again, I think the thing we forget about when you have mother-daughter relationships is first I wanna go ahead and acknowledge everything you just said. You told me that you wanted her to hear you and wanted you to have a moment.

Grandmom apologized to me. I never went into, I never went into and my mother's face, screaming at my mother, cursing at her. Where's your apology? In front of a national audience. Where's your apology? Where's your accountability? There is respect. Where is that? I have a condition. You're still in denial and delusion. I have a condition. I'm trying not to get angry. I'm gonna step up because I cannot. You should have been stepping up. I'm gonna step up and stand on the side because I'm not gonna allow my child to smack her hands in my face and curse at me. Here you go with that. Because I never took and cursed at her one time. And I think I deserve more respect than what she's given me.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna—

No, basically I'm doing a lot, way less than the behavior you displayed to me.

Haneefa, I know you're angry right now, but you said, I asked you what you want from your mom and you said you want her to hear you. Your daughter needs you just to hear her. Hear 3 things. She needs you to hear that she feels like you put her at risk. She needs you to hear that she had a hard life, which is causing her to feel depressed. And she also wants you to know that she didn't deserve this. You said when you got with your grandmother, your grandmother had to apologize to you because there was things as a woman you didn't know how to do. I'm gonna just tell you this right here, and this is not an excuse. She did not know how to do it. So in your mind, you know how to do it now. So you're looking at her of like, How is it that you didn't know how to do this? How is it that you did not know how to do this for me? She didn't know. You deserve to have it done.

See, that's where I'm saying again, like I understand, like she didn't know, but it just like the love for my child, I got so much more than to damage her.

I know.

I'd rather cry it out even through postpartum. I'd rather cry that shit out.

I know.

To hurt my baby.

I know, I know, I get it, I get it. I understand.

And that's what I'm saying, like I understand her pain, but now it's time to talk about my pain, what the fuck I went through. You never experienced use of drugs? Have you ever experienced a use of any drug? I smoke weed for my anxiety. Okay. That's the only thing I do 'cause I dare not touch another thing looking at you. So what makes you think you better than me? You said you never used drugs. Because I'm doing the job for my daughter, that's why. My daughter can, I can stand and say that I watched my daughter walk. Can you stand and say that you watched me walk? Well, I couldn't walk. Okay then. I couldn't walk. I had to walk with the PWS. Okay then, don't go there, don't go there.

The reason is that question is that because the drugs, the reason I'm bringing this up again is the reason about the drugs is because she was in a cloud and I get the love you have for your daughter and I get Listen, it's going to take years for you to understand that your mother was in a cloud and that's why she couldn't give you what you deserve.

I do understand that.

Okay, so let me use different language. Let me use different language. It's going to have to take you years to feel in your heart. You are a smart woman. I know you understand, but there's something when the mind and the heart don't connect and that's what's going on. I'm telling you. And you're right for your pain.

It's like, You were in pain. Why inflict that on me knowing that you were in pain and damaging your child?

Stop right there, stop right there. I know you've done it before, I know you've done it before, but can right now you acknowledge to your child, I'm sorry that I inflicted this pain on you?

I wouldn't be here.

I know, but tell her.

I wouldn't be here. And this is hard to be in front of someone or these people here with someone sincerity. But tell her. My sincerity is for my present.

But why you tell her all this?

My sincerity is my future. I cannot apologize for my past. You know why I can't apologize for my past? 'Cause pain upon affliction causes addiction. I never meant to inflict any pain on her. I truly apologize if you feel some type of way about what I was traumatized about and how it may have been a reflection on you. Me out. Because I— That's your apology? Only, I only could, I only could, what am I supposed to do, get on a knee? Just say I'm sorry, bro.

Can you just say I'm sorry?

Sorry's not good. Sorry's not good. I apologize 'cause I can never be sorry because God put me here to be in front of you right now for my future, not my past. Yes, yes. All right, whatever. I ain't even gonna accept no apology. 'cause you ain't giving me one, obviously. I'm just gonna move past it.

Yes. Unfortunately, in this moment, I do agree with your daughter because I was hoping to give you an opportunity to just acknowledge what she said to me. She just wants acknowledgement. That's it. And as parents, even in our darkest moments when we have clarity, and you have clarity today, that's when we have to step up and just give acknowledgement. And sometimes an acknowledgement and apology an apology is really a great first step. And I understand that you have this wall built up and these things going on that you can't go there, but until you're able to go there, she's gonna have to, she's gonna continue to feel this pain.

And I'm going to remove you from my life. And my daughter's life. I was already removed. There's a lot of selfishness. There's a lot of selfishness and control. I cannot be controlled or feel like somebody is trying to remove me. With things that they're not challenged with.

Okay, got it. Listen.

She have not yet to feel how it feels to try to eat food and still be hungry and can't chew enough to suffice hunger, man.

So this is what I say. I really thank you so much for coming on the show. I appreciate you so much for telling me your side. Thank you.

Thank you.

Yes, have a good one now. I'm gonna talk to her. Thank you so much, seriously.

Yeah.

So listen, I asked your mom to leave because I saw what you're going through. You already set the boundary of we're not talking no more. You don't have her in your life. And I think that's a healthy boundary for you to have right now. That is a very healthy boundary for you.

But I don't want to go back to being angry because I don't have the mother and my daughter doesn't have the grandmother.

But let me tell you, but listen, no, no, no, no, no.

So it's like I bounce between the 15-year-old being angry and the grown woman me.

Yeah. So let me tell you how you help that. In your mind, you have to grieve the mother that you needed. Because the thing is, you're gonna keep toggling back and forth between being this grown woman who's trying her best and that 15-year-old girl until you grieve that relationship. That relationship has died. And until she's able to take steps to give you what you need, you have to grieve that relationship while also focusing on your boundaries. That's what's going to heal you. I tried to give you the healing from your mother, but unfortunately she's not in a space still to give you that. We witnessed it. When you lose something and you're like, "Oh man, I'm pissed, I'm sad," the first day and the second day you're like, "Well—" It's just hard. I know it is and it's a process.

'Cause it's the only, my grandma, she's my rock.

I know, but no, that's a lie. That's not, she's not your rock. You are your own rock. Don't fool yourself. And this is the truth. Don't fool yourself into believing that somebody outside of you is your rock. You are your own rock. I heard it when you said at 15, I made the decision to leave. You have always been your own rock. And so don't ever put that external because it takes away from your own strength and from the fact that you've always tried to do the best for yourself.

I'm just tired of being disappointed by her. Yeah, grieve it.

Instead of saying I'm tired of being disappointed, Say, "I'm no longer disappointed." Change the language. Grieve that relationship. It died already. Set clearer boundaries. And also remind yourself that I am my own rock. I always have been. You hear me? Those are the steps that I can tell you that's gonna allow you. So just remind me again, what you gonna do when you leave the show?

Grieve the relationship so I can heal. Then what you gonna do? And shut the door and leave it there. Boom.

And then what you gonna do next? Set boundaries. Great. And then the third thing is?

And be my own rock.

Remind yourself that you always been. Hold up, hold up. Where are you going? I know you wanna watch more Karamo, so click here to subscribe and click here to watch more so we can keep talking and growing, friends. I love you.