6 Harrowing True Crime Stories | KARAMO

I was shot 9 times and my son was shot twice. My daughters, they all was in the house. It was a home invasion. Everything did change in an instant on that morning. I'm paralyzed from the waist down and I'm in a wheelchair. In 2010, my mother was murdered. My sister Chanel and I then went to live with another family member. That family member was extremely abusive to me. She would beat me. She would lock up the kitchen and not let me eat. One time she made me sleep on the porch in the middle of winter. There was a foot of snow on the ground. 2 years ago, I finally had enough and I reported everything. I thought I would finally be saved, and Chanel lied to the investigator. She said nothing was going on in the house. She knew what I've been going through and she did nothing to help me. I had to run away from home. I was bouncing around in different people's houses. I was sleeping on the street sometimes. When I needed my sister the most, she wasn't there for me. I don't know if I can ever trust her again.

Everyone, we'll hear from Trinelle later, but first welcome Chanel to the show. Thank you for being here. I saw you getting emotional when your sister was talking. What was going through your mind?

She's never told me that she doesn't trust me. So just hearing her say that, it's like kind of hurtful because We've had conversations about everything that's going on and everything that happened. And why couldn't you tell me that? Why would you say that now? You could have told me that you could never trust me again.

I understand. So what's going on with you and Trinell?

We argue so much. Every month there's something new. Yeah. And then we don't talk. It's just, you know, it's the same thing over. It's the same cycle and I'm sick of it. I'm trying to, better us. I want us to actually have a good relationship and I wanna be able to trust her.

Yeah, of course, of course. Let's go back to the beginning. So what do you know about the circumstances surrounding your mother's murder?

I watched my mom be murdered. Oh, I did not know.

So sorry.

I was 5 years old and at the time we were living in Chicago on the South Side. We had a house and it was broken off into apartments and we stayed in the top floor apartment. So one of her male friends that she was dealing with had set her up and we met the guy the night that it happened and I think we had went to bed, but we were in a room next to her and I heard some commotion. So when I got up, I watched around the corner and I seen everything that happened.

Very sorry to hear that, seriously. And so you moved in with a family member after that?

Yes.

What was it like to live in that home?

So with the family member we were staying with, we were living in Chicago at first. Everything was, you know, everything was pretty okay. And then we moved outta town to a different town, like 2 hours from Chicago. It's like she changed. She changed. She was very verbally, physically abusive.

So why did you lie to the investigators about what was happening?

I was scared. You know, I didn't know what to do.

Yeah.

I was very, very scared of what would've happened when I got home because everything that happened, I found out I wasn't in school when everything happened.

Yeah, got it.

The school called me down to the office and I seen Trinelle in the office and I'm like, why am I here? And she didn't tell me, but when I got in the office, they laid it on me and I didn't know anything.

And how did that affect your relationship with Trinelle?

We didn't talk.

After that?

No.

At all?

No, we didn't talk.

Wow. Did you ever try to explain to Trinelle why you lied?

Yes, I've apologized.

Yeah. Do you and Trinelle still live with this family member?

No.

Okay, good. Just wanna make sure. And you're 19 now? Mm-hmm. And she's 18?

Yes.

So you're still young. Okay. And what happened when you asked Trinelle to help with some money for rent?

So I have this like friend or whatever and he needed to pay his rent, but he didn't have like a bank account. So when the money was sent to her bank account, she didn't send the money to him right away. And I'm like, why are you lying? She basically said that she didn't have a debit card, but I asked her if she had a debit card before everything started. But when it came time to send this man his money for his rent, she don't have a debit card all of a sudden.

Got it. Yeah, okay. And do you want a better relationship with your sister?

Yes, I do. I really do.

Yeah.

I called the show, you know, I watch you every day.

Yeah.

Every day.

Thank you, appreciate that.

I really love you and I know you gonna keep it real with her. You ain't gonna sugarcoat it.

I'm gonna try to, I'm gonna try to.

You not gonna sugarcoat it with her. So I want somebody other than me because I don't feel like she listens to me.

Okay, well I think it's time to hear from your sister. So everyone please welcome Trinelle to the show. Thank you for being here.

Thank you.

So how do you feel about what your sister just said?

To be honest, I don't know. I just, I feel I'm hurt, you know?

Yeah.

I feel like some of it wasn't the truth. I feel like I don't trust her. Like, I don't trust, there's no trust. Like, I just feel ultimate betrayal. At certain times it's so hard that I can't even look and talk to my own sister. And you know, for her to live in the same household as this family member and watch me go through everything that I was going through and then when it came time to tell the investigators what was going on with us, she lied and told them that nothing happened and she was there with us. Karamo, I was a child just like she was a child. I was going through the same thing and we both were scared. So you can't really sit here and expect me to, you know, You didn't tell me anything. You and— You made the plan. I just don't feel like I had to tell you anything when you were there watching it. They asked you what was going on. They asked you what was going on. And you had the opportunity to tell them that, "Yes, this is what was going on," to get us out of that situation, and you didn't. And that's why I'm hurt. That's why I'm hurt. I feel like you was there. You could have told them what happened and you didn't. That's why I don't trust you. I don't trust you at all. And it's hard— to even look at you at times because you was there when it was going on.

What was it like when you were living there?

It was, to be honest, it was nothing. Like, it was bad. Like, it was all bad. Like, I couldn't eat at times, weeks and weeks at a time. I was put outside in the winter. I slept outside on the porch in freezing cold weather. I mean, it was bad. It was bad.

Was Sanelle supportive of you during that time?

I mean, no, not really, but I wasn't really there. I started working when I was 14, so I wasn't always in the house. Karamo, I'm not gonna sit here and say she's lying. She's telling the truth. Everything she just said, it happened. But at the same time, I was young and I didn't know anything. Sanelle, I just want an apology. I just wanna start over. I apologize over and over. I don't know what you want from me. I feel like it's excuses. I feel like the, I was at work and I apologize to you. I just want a sincere apology. I just want you to— I've apologized. I say you sorry for everything, Chanel. Don't get me wrong, I want a better relationship with my sister, but the first thing to bettering a relationship is admitting that you wrong. I admitted, I'm saying I apologize. I told your business, I did all the trivia stuff, but I'm hurt, Chanel. I'm hurt, but I'm still hurt. I must not apologize to you. I want an apology. I must not apologize. Apology, when we have it. I wanna feel like you mean it. I wanna feel that you mean it.

Can I ask you a question? Why did you run away from home?

Because I couldn't deal with it.

Yeah, and so the relationship has been hard for you to have one.

Yeah.

Because once you left, you just feel like—

Yeah. And she's never, I'm just now hearing this. That's why I'm kind of shocked because we talk and I've apologized. I apologize and I even cried about the situation and I feel like she just making it seem like it's really just her that was affected by the situation when it was me too. Yeah, of course. Because you know what I went through after y'all left. I was the only one up in there. You know what I went through working every, I was in school and I was working every day. Every day, every single day, you know? And I was coming home and I didn't have nobody. And when they left, I was by myself and I felt bad for lying. I just feel like it was hard. It was hard to come out and tell how I feel all at once because at the end of the day, I'm still dealing with it myself.

Yeah, of course you're both dealing with it still. What happened with the rent money?

I feel like I was going to send it. I just didn't have a car at the time. I was getting threats saying what they were going to do. What threats did you get from me? What they were gonna do to me. When did I threaten you, Tranelle? You threatened me. I did not threaten you. And don't you sit up here. And she lies. That's why I can't do it with her 'cause she lies about everything. She kept saying that, oh, if the man comes to your job, he's gonna do whatever he gonna do. By you being my sister, what type of stuff is that? You have to tell me? Why would you tell me that? Like, why are you more on his side than mine? And you my sister. Because you had his money in your account.

Do you wanna be closer to your sister?

I do.

And do you wanna be closer to your sister?

I don't think she do.

Do you wanna be closer to your sister?

Yes.

You do? You do?

I do.

Yeah. You know, the trauma that divides you two is the same trauma that connects you two. You do know that, right?

Mm-hmm. I feel like that's the only thing we have in common is is what our feelings for the person we were living with at the time. That's the only thing I feel like we have in common.

I mean, none of us here can really imagine what you've been through except for each other. And you have to work through this. And there's something that you all both kept saying to each other. She lies, she lies. I can't trust her. She lies, she lies. I wanna make sure everyone understands this, and especially for you two. When people have been in situations where you've been through, where you've dealt with trauma and death at a young age, but then also dealing with abuse abandonment, all these things, you're looking for security. And when individuals in your experience are looking for security, they lie because they don't know if they say something, if it's going to affect their security. And so I understand that in that moment you were trying to find your security because you didn't feel secure in this house. So you called somebody for protection, but your sister on the opposite side was looking for security too. And she doesn't know if I tell the truth, what's gonna happen to all of us. Could we separate? So you have to also understand that every time you call each other a liar, there's a reason that you all have had to experience these lies or say these things or do these things. Even when I'm hearing about this money and this rent, like I don't think you're lying, but I understand that when people have trauma, they see things their own way. They see it through their lens of how they experienced it because trauma informs us to say, this is what I'm experiencing. I can't see what you're going through. "This is what I'm going through." And both of y'all are looking for the other person to say, "Do you see what I'm going through?" And then you're saying, "Can you see what I'm going through?" But that's blocked right now. That's blocked right now. So instead of calling each other liars and calling each other these names, say, "I understand that sometimes." Next time you wanna call your sister a liar, say, "I understand you're looking for security." Next time you wanna call your sister a liar, say, "I understand you're looking for security." 'cause you didn't have it as little girls, and I'm sorry for everything you went through. I'm so sorry. But neither of you could control what you went through. And you're blaming each other for those things. You're both young, you didn't know. And so now you're 18 and 19 trying to find that security. And you're gonna find it. You're gonna find it. You hear me? But make sure you say to your sister, Listen, if you don't have security, I'll be your security. No more fighting. Can you turn to your sister and say, "I'll be your security"?

I'll be your security.

Can you say it? I'll be your security. You'll be her security. Thank you, sister. You both know how hard and how fast life can be. Hold on to each other. What I'm trying to give you is just a small tool. I'm not trying to minimize your experience. I'm giving you just a small tool, a word that you haven't used before. I heard all these other words. Security. That's the word, okay? Be there. And if there's any supportive things that I can give, you know that I'm here for you, okay?

Thank you.

All right, you're welcome. Listen, I love you all. All right, so please tell me what happened that night of that robbery. I can only imagine how scared you were.

The night of the robbery, do you want me to like connect the dots? Start from the beginning, first?

Please do, yes.

So the robbery was August 16th.

Okay.

August 12th, 2022, we are having a family trip, my kids, her kids, and other people. August 14th, I get a call from someone she knows and he's like, how dare you? How could you not tell me? I guess he went through her phone.

Yeah.

And he's like, how could you not tell me everything that she was doing? Why would you not tell me? And I'm like, I'm not your best friend though, I'm her best friend. I don't owe you any loyalty. I owe her loyalty.

Exactly, yeah.

August 16th, I'm at work. Like I said, a coworker was supposed to come in. She called out. Car issues. Sade knows this person. Later on I found out that Sade called her and told her not to come in. I don't know how true that is, but that's what they said. And August 16th, I'm here at work, people are making appointments, it's really slow, and someone asked for someone specifically, but that person was not there because I was by myself. The person comes in and he's like, "Oh, where's such and such?" Didn't we talk on the phone? I told you that person was not here. So now I'm walking him out, I'm walking to the door, And I open the door and I hear, "Turn around." So I turn around and he has a gun pointed at me. So when he did that, I literally, I jumped all the way out like into the hallway and I didn't have nothing on me, no purse, anything. I'm just like, "Go ahead, do what you gotta do." I didn't have them, it was no business today, but you go ahead, look in the register, I see you. Go ahead, go ahead. "Get in here, get in here." He has the gun like pointed at like my rib right here. And he's like, you know, "Get in, get in, get in." And I was pleading, I could not, like, I was talking my shit. I ain't even gonna lie. I'm like, you so stupid, you didn't think this through. You should've, you know.

Girl, you could've, I mean.

I was like, I'm like, my knees were like this. I'm like, you're so stupid, you dumb.

Okay, okay, got it, got it, okay. Okay, okay.

I was nervous, I never been through that.

Yeah, of course, yeah.

I never had a gun pointed at me.

Honestly, I'm so very sorry. I mean, I'm glad you're out of it now and that we can talk about it. To talk about it and make the jokes, but I'm so glad.

I mean, they're locked up now.

Yeah, but still.

It was both of them. Then he goes to the back, like just straight to the back to like where there was a stash of money, I guess, where the boss keeps it hidden.

Yeah.

I did not know anything about the stash. Sade did know.

Oh.

So I get a call and it's my boss. Are you okay? Are you okay? I was watching the cameras. I saw the guy with the gun pointed at you. So because of her watching the cameras, the cops were called right away. Okay, whatever. Then Sade calls me. I hadn't spoken to her, so I don't know how she like knew about the robbery. Maybe someone else like called her 'cause I didn't speak to her. She called me like, "Hey, are you okay? What's going on? I heard this, this, and that." Connecting the dots. Okay. So then probably like a week later she calls me, "We can't be friends anymore because you're selfish." And what was her justification for that? Nothing. Nothing at all.

After the robbery, when she called you and said, are you okay? How did you respond? How did you react?

I was shooken up. I think I was just like, how did you know? That's what I was asking. How the hell you knew? I wish I could remember the answer.

Yeah. But your question to her was like, how did you know about this? How did you know? I didn't tell you what was going on. And so that's where the suspicion came from.

Then the stash and then the coworker not coming who is actually a family member of hers.

How long were y'all friends?

Since 15.

Since 15 years old?

Yeah.

So this is like over a decade-long friendship?

Yeah. This is like family.

So you blame her for being, for the robbery or for being robbed?

Yes, I feel like she knew and did not warn me. You could have definitely called me, sis, don't go to work, don't go there today. Maybe you don't have to tell me why, but you could just say don't go in.

And you're gonna trust her 'cause that's your girl. Yeah, okay. And how has that robbery affected you? I heard you say earlier in the show I think you said—

I got PTSD. I have like super trust issues. I have not had real friends ever since then. Even last night, I'm in the hotel, I don't know if she was in my hotel or not, but I don't know, I just put the hanger on the lock and I just like, I'm scared. I don't want nobody to break in or, you know, like, I don't know if I'm dragging it or what, but I literally have not had a friend after that.

So when was the last time you spoke with her?

This girl, she has been trying to come back into my life for like the past year and I've already explained to her that we cannot be friends or do anything until I know the truth. You telling me, oh, I didn't do it, it's not enough for me.

Got it. Do you miss Chade?

I don't know, I can't answer that. I cannot answer anything sentimental until I know the truth. Yeah, I cannot. Okay, yes, I miss having a best friend, sure.

What will happen if you find out that she has not been telling the truth?

You said we can't fight, right?

No fighting, no fighting, none.

I'ma just be like, you're like, That's like delusional.

Yeah.

If you know you're not telling the truth, why would you plead that you are?

Got it, got it.

And then it'll be easier for me to walk away.

So I think it's time to hear Sade's side of the story. So everyone please welcome Sade to the show.

Arms crossed like she's the victim. The audacity, the audacity you think that I did that to you. Arms crossed like you're the victim, right? You the victim, I'm not the victim. Sit your ass down, girl. You sit your ass down. Sit your ass down and tell the story. All right.

How do you feel about what she said? I can already see your body language, you are. You are closed off to this. So how do you feel?

Upset.

Yeah, makes sense.

'Cause she's lying.

Okay.

Everything she's telling is she's lying.

So I'm gonna ask you directly, were you involved in the robbery?

No.

At all? Okay then. And how does it feel to be accused of this crime?

But what am I lying about though? You lying about the whole story. First off, you called me and told me the whole situation that happened. No, you called me. Stephanie, you didn't call my phone and told me she got robbed? I was on the phone with someone who was the boss that was watching the camera, and you called on the other line. And so you telling me I can't call you at all? But I thought I called you. But I thought I called you. But Stephanie, if I did call you, didn't call you, doesn't matter. I didn't rob you. I didn't say you did, but you know who? So whoever did it, did not rob you. You was at the wrong place at the wrong time. That's what happened. Who's gonna come to the shop on that day?

Please call. So I gotta ask you, did you know who did it? Do you know who did it?

Nobody robbed her, my love. Whoever robbed her, they got caught. I mean, nobody robbed her. Whoever robbed her got caught, so it doesn't even matter. What you mean it don't matter? If I feel like you were involved and you wanna keep being friends, it doesn't matter. How you feel that I did it? I literally just connected all the dots. I didn't say you did it. Stop saying that you did it, 'cause you don't got the balls or the brains for that at all. Wow. You don't, you don't. Let's be real. And you don't got the fucking money to get fucking robbed, bitch. It was only $40, you heard? Yes, you was on the fucking weekend. 4 months of my life. Please don't. Please don't do that.

Do you know who did it?

No.

I know, did you know that it was about to happen?

No.

So what's your version of that night?

I was in a shelter, my love. I was in a shelter with my baby father and my son.

You was in a shelter?

Yes.

And then so what happened? You got a call or she called you, you called her? Be clear.

You don't remember? I don't remember. I don't even care if I called her. Called her or she called me, but at the end of the day, it happened. She got robbed and it is what it is.

Got it, okay.

She wanna be friends. I don't wanna be your friend. Good. I don't.

I'm glad. Did your coworker call in sick that day? 'Cause she said that on that day, on the 16th, that you—

My love, Stephanie, I'm so sorry to interrupt you.

Yeah.

Stephanie. Who was I supposed to be working with? When I was in the shelter, I told you I did not wanna work no more, didn't I? Okay, but who was I supposed to be working with that night? Someone that you know, right? Yes. Someone that didn't just come in magically, right? She didn't just come in the way. I have a question. Does she come in all the time? But I was just left by myself. Does she come in all the time? Bro. Does she come in all the time? Imagine if she had car problems that day. She calls out all the time. So then if it wasn't y'all, it was definitely her is what I'm saying. But you still know who it was.

Do you feel like she tarnished your name in the community?

Of course. All the girls was talking. Nobody believed I did it but her. Her little dumbass. Everyone thinks that it was her because you know why? I connect the dots.

How was your friendship before this incident?

It was great. There was some sneaky things that she do, those jealousy things that she do. You too. Like I said, we had hurdles. I let them know that. But the point of the hurdles is not even it. 'Cause real friends could get over hurdles. Real friends is not getting over this though. And I'm sure they get over it. Oh, wow.

So you feel like she was selfish?

Yes, and jealous.

Selfish and jealous, okay.

Yes.

Have you reached out to her since all this? Before this happened?

Yes, I did. I'm the one that confronted her in the situation. When she got robbed, I called her and everything. I looked for her, I told her that I missed her, and then she had a nasty attitude with me. A year later, I reached out again, I waited, and I reached out to her.

What do you miss about—

The answers is gonna tell everything for her.

What do you miss about your friendship the most?

That our friendship, To be able to cry to her, talk to her about anything.

Mm-hmm. 'Cause that was your confidant?

Mm-hmm.

'Cause you met at 15? And so for 15, as young women having babies, figuring out how to deal with men, life, careers, this was the person you turned to?

Yes.

And have you found somebody to do that with since?

No.

Okay. And have you found anybody to do that with since? You haven't, okay. What has she missed out on in your life?

Me getting an apartment, me graduating.

Big moments.

Mm-hmm.

'Cause I heard you say you were homeless, so that's a big moment for you to go from a shelter to getting your own apartment. That's big, congratulations.

Thank you.

Now without the hostility, because That's why I asked you that question so I can get a baseline of where y'all were and where you could possibly be right now. What do you wanna say to her about this moment? I know she's accused you and I know you feel as if she tarnished your name. What do you wanna say before I unlock this truth?

I wish her nothing but the best and I didn't do nothing to her.

Okay, well I think it's time to unlock this truth. All right, so my examiner asked 4 questions. My examiner asked, on the night of the robbery, were you at the shelter? Sade, you said you were. The truth is, Sade was at the shelter that night. My examiner asked, did you call your coworker to warn them not to come into work that day? Shadee says she didn't. The truth is Shadee did not call the coworker. My examiner asked, do you have direct knowledge of anyone connected to the robbery? Shadee says she does not. The truth is Shadee does not have direct knowledge of anyone connected to the robbery. All right, this fourth one is a big one. My examiner asked, Shadee, did you participate in this robbery in any way? And Shadee, you said you did not. And the truth is, Sade did not participate in this robbery in any way at all.

So if you were telling the truth, why would you wait all these years to tell the truth? So please, shut the fuck up. Please don't look at me like that. You be respectful. You sound like a bitch, I will smack you too 'cause you said I'm dumb.

Hold on, hold on. What's going on right now? Hold on. Because when you asked her the question, I understood her direct anger. Because she's finally been vindicated. And as much as you've went through PTSD with this and what you experienced is way worse, I'm so sorry. She's had her own PTSD from this moment now because now inadvertently she's lost a confidant, a friend. She's also had her character tried and that's hard. I know, because this is what I know about trauma. The part of us that experienced that trauma wants to understand why.

I do, so I'm not saying no.

And this is what I'll tell you. This is what I'll tell you. Trying to ask yourself the why is never going to help you to heal. It's never going to help you to heal, because the why is, is that it happened.

She was at the wrong place at the wrong time.

And you didn't deserve it.

And I called her.

You didn't deserve it.

No, Steph, you really hurt me. And I was hurt too though. Just give me a hug. What the?

Listen, listen. It's gonna take both of y'all some time to heal. It's going to take time.

I would never hurt her. I'm so sorry. I would never hurt her.

I know.

She was my best friend. I was there for everything. Everything.

I know. There is healing that can happen here. And I think a good first step in that healing is to apologize.

I did, didn't I? I don't think she heard it. Do it again. I apologize and I'm glad that you were not involved. Thank you for finally giving me the truth. No problem. I just wanted to clear my name.

It's gonna take some time. And I also believe that when y'all were younger, y'all already talked to each other foul anyway. So that's why, that's why watching this relationship, I was like, this is how they talk to each other. Like, 'cause I was trying to gauge like, is this new? But this, Even when you said, "Bitch, get up, gimme a hug," I'm like, "Oh, okay, okay, this is what it is." So be there for each other, all right? I wish y'all the best of luck.

Thank you, Karamo.

I really do. All right.

The night my sister died, I decided to go to a basketball game. When I went to the basketball game, I went alone and my sister, I didn't see her 3 weeks before the game. I called Terrion to the game because I seen a group of females that had jumped me prior.

Got it.

And I felt uncomfortable, I felt unsafe. So I called Terrion to come protect me.

And Terrion is your foster brother?

That's correct.

Got it. Okay.

And so, I never imagined that she would come to that game, but I was thankful that she did come to that game. And when he came, he brought her with him. And I honestly forgot about the group of girls that was there. I ran to my sister, we hugged, we cried. It was like we said our last words from each other. So after that, we kind of, Got into an altercation with the group of girls that did jump us, and the principals and the security guards just kept on chanting. You had to leave, we had to get out the game. Me and my sister didn't want to do so because we haven't seen each other 3 weeks, so we wanted to stay and watch the game, but that didn't happen. When we got escorted out, they escorted both parties outside, and 2 of the girls that was inside that group was out there waiting. And my sister's the one who noticed that she had a gun. She let the security guards know, everyone that was there. She yelled out loud, "She got a gun, she got a gun, she got something." And then 30 seconds later, gunshots.

Yeah. How did that moment impact you for the rest of your life? I can only imagine, but I wanna hear from you.

It changed my life. Honestly don't know who I am anymore without my twin sister. I don't sleep the same. I can't eat the same. I haven't went back to school. I don't even wanna follow my dreams. I don't even wanna do anything because I planned it all out with this one person that's no longer here to do it with me.

[Speaker] Yeah, I understand. So are you struggling with guilt over that moment?

Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Then I felt like if I would've never went to that basketball game, she would've never ended up there.

Got it, I understand. So are you blaming yourself for your sister's death?

Honestly, don't blame nobody but the person who shot her. But at first, I can honestly say that I questioned myself a lot.

That's good. That's good that at least you don't blame yourself. That's good. But you were questioning yourself?

Yes, sir.

Why were you questioning yourself?

'Cause I just didn't think I did everything that I could.

When you wrote to the show, you said that you think Angelique should be taking accountability for her sister's shooting. What did you mean by that? Okay, let's make no mistakes. She's not respon— No one sitting here is responsible for Angelique being, her death. I think responsibility lies solely on the school. When I said accountability, I felt that I was being blamed for a role. And like I said, there's two roles, the role of the shooter and the role of the negligence. But I was being blamed for being there. Did you blame him?

No. So, well, I can honestly say if there was blame, it was off of emotions. But to be honest, I personally don't blame anyone but the person who pulled the trigger. Trigger and shot my twin sister. Yes, we all had different emotions that we was dealing with. Like still to this day, I don't even know how he felt after losing my twin, you know? Still to this day, my mother—

Why don't you ask him right now? Let's find out. How did you feel after losing the twin? That was devastating.

I honestly had survivor's guilt. I just felt my time has expired here because everywhere I go there's a memory. You're somewhat responsible for her being there because you arrived with her.

Well, if that's the case, in the same breath say that, okay, well I take part because y'all, no one would have been there if I didn't call y'all to come there.

Oh, okay.

So I'm saying if I'm responsible for being in the same car with her and not letting her go alone, then how about say you're responsible for calling us there because ultimately we wouldn't have known.

Well, that part I wouldn't be accountable because the day that I did call, I called you, you know, I didn't know, but I know we all go together, like, but I didn't know that she was with you.

You just said something that I wanted to let you know. I wanna let you know that I'm actually glad that you're taking time to find the answers because part of what's going on here is that y'all are avoiding these harder topics and y'all are not talking about it. So I'm happy that you actually are focused on this and you want to get clarity and you want to get answers because that is where your healing is gonna really start. So you actually taking really big steps in questioning and facing it. So I'm really proud of you. I wanna let you know I'm really happy that you did that.

I appreciate that. Before you came out, I kind of did admit that I did blame myself once upon a time as well. I know we all, I know we all dealt with different emotions and the way we did handle those emotions wasn't right 'cause we did point fingers. If we want to be honest, yes, we all did point fingers. But at the end of the day, I did blame myself. Once upon a time because I knew that I did call you, but I promise I didn't know she was coming. And if I would've known that, we could've just all stayed at your house or we could've all just did something else as a family instead of going to that game. You know, we don't even do that. So I feel like we should've all just been like at someone's.

But y'all know, y'all know the thing that I'm hearing in y'all, which I'm really happy about, is you know it's not, you can't blame each other. But the thing is not only with the blaming each other, You can't blame each other, but you also have to realize that that call is not what set in motion your sister passing. You driving there with her is not what set that motion happen. It's not. It's not at all. And so even though we're like accountability and thinking about those words, even though you're saying, "I don't blame you," there's still this sort of doubt of like, "If I would've not called, if I would've not did the game." But that is not what set this in motion. What set this in motion was somebody who decided to grab a gun and they could have had a gun anywhere. So I want y'all to understand that you making a call and saying, come be with me, come be here with me, come support me, let's be at this game, let's drive together, has nothing to do with her death. Nothing at all. And y'all need to hear that and remind each other of that. You know what I'm saying? Can you remind Angelique right now and say, "You calling us had nothing to do with your sister's death." You calling us had nothing to do with Gwen's death.

Do you honestly feel that way?

It's gonna take time, but this is how you practice saying it. Because the thing is, is that you've practiced sort of in your mind right now that that call is what set things in motion. I'm trying to help you to rewrite that narrative in your mind. Can you say to him, "You driving there is not the reason for my sister dying"?

You driving there was not the reason my sister died that night.

Y'all gotta say that to each other more because you're holding onto that and believing that you all set into motion something that you all didn't set into motion. And I know you don't blame each other, but there's still a part of that guilt that's living in you. Living in each of you. Do you two wanna fix your relationship? Of course. You wanna be close again?

Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. I believe you can be. But there's another person here that I think that we wanna talk to, that's important to talk to. I've been talking to Angelique who lost her twin sister to gun violence 4 years ago. Joining us now is the twins' mom. Everyone please welcome Antonique to the show. Hello, Anthony. Can I give you a hug?

Yes.

Thank you for being here. No, you're no worries at all. Take a seat. Would you mind sitting in the middle? So how did you learn about your daughter's death?

A phone call from her sister. She called me and told me that her sister had been shot and They had separated her. She had been missing for 3 weeks, so I was distraught when I got the phone call anyway.

And you've been struggling with your own guilt?

Yes.

I'm assuming.

A lot.

Yeah. What is that guilt that you're dealing with?

At first, I was blaming myself. I was fighting battles within myself, like maybe I wasn't a good mom at the time, and that, that I couldn't keep my children safe. I blame myself a lot, but now that I'm trying to deal with it, there's, I can't blame myself.

Yeah. I was reading some of the backstory and information on you and it said that you not only lost Angelique's twin, but you also lost another child and you lost their father to gun violence?

Yes.

Okay. So you're coping with a lot of trauma. Of grief from this. How many years has it been in between those shootings?

So their father I lost in '05, and then I lost the twin in 2019, and then I lost their big brother in 2021.

So why does it feel important for you to deal with your grief in a different way?

Knowing that I know I'm not gonna ever probably be the same, but I wanna be able to function again as a parent for my other two kids that I have left and my grandkids. Really all I do is just sit and squaddle in my own grief.

Yeah.

And I'm kind of like tired of it.

I hear you. You were inspired by Angelique to start going to therapy, I heard.

Yes.

Good job. How was that? Yeah.

It made me wanna take a different step because I seen that if she could come out of it, it's important for me to also do the same. Yeah.

After your daughter's death, you told my producers you were angry with Terrion. Why?

At the time, you know, when I was looking for my daughter, everybody looked at me as if I was crazy when I was saying that she was missing and I just wanted to know where she was.

Got it. So you feel because your daughter was staying with him for 3 weeks, he should've had an obligation to tell you? Is that what you're feeling?

Yes.

Okay.

Maybe it would've eased my, I mean, you know, 'cause like I said, I didn't know where she was. So when I got the call that she was shot, I'm like, well, how did she get there? And you know, where'd she come from?

Got it. Both of you made a face when she said that. What were you both thinking? It was no secret where she was to nobody.

I know everything about Angelique, so that just didn't sit right with me. But if I would've known that she was with him, I promise you I wouldn't have been stressing the way I was. I wouldn't have even felt guilty those 3 weeks.

Yeah.

'Cause I would've known she was safe.

Uh-huh. Yeah. I do believe that in this moment, though you made the best decision, you were riding for her. Do you feel like maybe now in hindsight, maybe I could have let them know that she was safe? Not where she was or anything else. Do you feel like I could have let them know she was safe? Let's be clear, that wasn't, that's not my job. And like I said— I agree, I agree, I agree, I agree. I'm not saying it was. You know what? I think part of the reason I brought that up is because I do want to heal that moment for y'all. And I think this acknowledgement is going to, understanding that that was a decision that your daughter made. She felt safer there for some reason. And it is not a reflection of you as a mother. It's not a reflection of you as a sister. It's just a reflection of where she was at that point. And I think that any questions about why she made that choice— Can I be honest? Yeah, of course. Be honest.

It's not that she wasn't safe. Nothing could've harmed her. It's honestly speaking from my experience, our experience growing up, we wanted to be grown at a young age. It was rules, strict rules.

Yeah.

And that's a place that she didn't want to be. I had to accept and adopt to those strict rules because I knew the consequences.

Got it.

She wasn't willing to do so.

I understand. Do you want to mend the relationship here?

Sure.

Do you want to get closer? 'Cause how's your relationship?

We bump heads.

You bump heads. Do you want a closer relationship?

I would love a closer relationship with all my family.

Yeah, I know you went to therapy for a little bit. How often do y'all have space to grow? Not often.

I sometimes just disappear from everyone and isolate myself.

Yeah, I think one of the big things that this family has to start doing is having to start grieving together. You have to start talking about it. And honestly talk about the feelings. Honestly talk about the feelings that are happening. Mom, what do you need?

I know emotionally I'm just all over the place.

You're exhausted.

I'm like very exhausted.

Yeah, I know. It's similar to what you said earlier. You said, I don't know who I am. I think you all talking more about how this sort of feeling of being lost together will allow you all to understand that we can figure out step by step. It's a day by day process. That's what grief is. You feel like you've lost purpose. You feel like you've lost direction, correct?

Correct.

Yeah, but you can find that again.

I would like to say my apologies to my mom and him and kind of have a fresh start.

Tell 'em right now.

Mom. I do wanna apologize to you because you lost two kids now. And I feel like I beat you up so much, or I tried to expect so much more from you. And I can't necessarily, you know, force that. You have to allow that to happen on your own. I respect you as a mother. I appreciate you as a mother. I want you to always know that no matter what anybody else say. And for you, Terri-Ann, I want you to know your family, and you as well, made me feel comfortable. I do apologize if you ever felt like I blamed you for my sister's death. In reality, I do appreciate you and your family for everything you've done for me. Thank you so much.

Y'all just took, first of all, I applaud you. You are very brave, very, very brave. And I applaud you 'cause you all just took a very big step there in the direction of healing. I believe if you can continue on this journey of honestly communicating and being there for each other and remembering this is day by day, the healing will start. The hurt will never fully go away, But you'll be better. So Lacey, tell me what's going on.

Well, as you said, my daughter and her girlfriend, they stay with me. It's stressful. I work 24/7. I just lost my mother and—

I'm so sorry to hear that.

I just, I come home from work, maybe after working a 10 to 12 hour shift and I don't even go in the house. I sit in the car with my bottle, just coping. I may get a call from my son, he's 11, letting me know that they had bitch arguments, calling each other bitches back and forth.

How long has your daughter been with Hope?

Couple years.

'Cause they're babies, they're only 20 and 23. Got it. Do you feel like their relationship is healthy?

Currently, no.

Got it.

They're not in a good place right now.

Mm-hmm. Makes sense. And how long have they lived with you?

I think it's just been for a month this first time. Mm-hmm. Me and Reagan, we had a verbal altercation.

Okay.

And they left.

What was the verbal altercation about?

Helping out a little bit more.

Giving back to the house?

Yes.

Okay, makes sense. I mean, she's 23, she living at home, she can get back. Do they work?

So currently they just got a job. They always work together.

Okay, and what bills are they paying?

Currently none. None, okay. You know, you could help out, pitch in, but I don't really feel so much is taken from my daughter. I want her to build, I want her to get out.

Of course, of course. From your opinion, what do they fight about?

I have no idea.

But they are fighting in the house.

They're not physically fighting.

But arguing.

They may have a shoving match. Mm-hmm. Please don't bring that back to my house.

Got it.

Don't take it to nobody's house. Mm-hmm.

Got it, got it. So I wanna, I think it's interesting, I want everyone to know that Lacey actually did not called the show. Her daughter Reagan and her fiancé Hope were the ones who actually called the show. They called the show to have their phones unlocked because they're having issues in a relationship. Now I unlocked their phones and I started going through all of it. And the reason that they're not out here first is because I switched this story up. I have their phone results right now and I'm gonna unlock their phone results and you'll understand why I brought you out. So Hope wants to know if Reagan was talking to any other women. She says she is not. Ma unlocked the phone, investigators searched her texts, DMs, calls, and found that she is telling the truth. I mean, this is the same. Reagan wanted to know if Hope was talking to any of the women. She says she is not. And Ma unlocked the phone, investigator went through her texts, DMs, and calls, and found that she is telling the truth as well. Now the issue that I have here is that then I started searching through the text messages. And I saw that both Reagan and Hope were smoking a lot of weed.

Okay.

Doing a lot of ecstasy.

Oh wow.

After unlocking both their phones and matching, I saw the conversations between them two and how they were communicating with each other, that they were calling each other the B word constantly. There was a lot of fighting that for me, when I saw this and saw that they were living in your home, This was a bigger issue for me at the age that they're at. This is a 20-year-old and a 23-year-old who are engaged, and there was something bigger for me. And I know they're backstage watching right now and probably figuring out why am I reading their results beforehand with their mother here, because this was something bigger. Hearing a little bit about your story and what's going on in your life, I wanted to say, figure out what's happening here with your daughter. So everyone, let's meet your daughter and her fiancé. Please welcome Reagan and Hope to the show. Neither of y'all are cheating on each other, right? So you have that. But there's a lot of other unhealthy behaviors in this relationship. Your mom just said that you're in the house, that she's seeing certain things go on. What do you think of what your mom just had to say?

We do argue. We do get in fights. We don't physically, you know, we don't physically hurt each other. We never physically hurt each other. We do argue about a lot of petty things. We are two females and we have hormones. You know, we do go back and forth a lot. As for the drugs and stuff, I can admit we've taken ecstasy, but only on trips when we're driving long hours. We've, and it might sound crazy, crazy or whatnot, but driving 8 hours at night from Michigan to Missouri, I've only— we only taken it twice. It might sound like too many, shouldn't do it. We know, we knew what we were doing.

But do you, do you understand the consequences of what you're doing? Because the reason that the audience all had a shock and that the mother has tears coming out of her eyes is because We just heard a young, beautiful 23-year-old woman say she's driving intoxicated 8 hours on ecstasy.

Yes, and I understand the consequences of it. I understand the repercussions of it.

Mom, what do you have to say to that? We really took it, taking it to— Did you know that she was taking ecstasy, whether it's twice or once, you said it's twice, to drive 8 hours?

I had no idea.

What do you wanna say to your daughter about that?

By the grace of God, you made it.

I understand from earlier, from reading also from some things my producer talked about, you lost another child, right, Lacey?

Yes.

Okay. That was your sibling, your brother? How long ago did you lose him?

I was 9.

You were 9, okay. I'm so sorry. Here you go.

Oh Lord.

Here you go, love. Here you go, love. Here you go, love.

Within myself, I have so much resentment.

Okay.

I know she resent me as well. I resent myself.

Why do you think she resents you?

'Cause I lost my son too. In the hands of a man who I was involved with.

Oh. Got it.

She was mine, I mean, that's trauma, hard trauma.

Got it, okay.

It's never gonna go away.

Do you resent your mother?

I don't resent her for that reason. That was out of her hands.

Okay.

That was completely out of her hands. It's not her fault. It's nobody's fault but the person who done it. I don't resent you.

Your daughter's telling you that she doesn't resent you.

No.

And I know sometimes you put a narrative in your head, but she's telling you she doesn't resent you for that reason. What is the reason you're saying that you have an issue with your mom?

I feel like I'm traumatized.

Okay. Emotionally.

I'm mentally traumatized.

Okay.

And she's not the main factor. It's me. I have a lot of internal problems, emotions, feelings that I don't express often. I don't really talk to people about how I'm feeling. Pretty much hold it in and when it comes out, it comes out. So when I react in such a way, I don't know how to stop.

Yeah. Do you feel like you can talk to your mom?

Of course.

Yeah.

Of course. I love my mom from the bottom of my heart.

Yeah.

She's all I got.

Yeah.

She's all I got. I mean, and for as long as I can remember, our motto has been, we are all we got. Me, her, and my brother. We're all we got.

Do you think your mom accepts your girlfriend?

As a person.

As a person?

I feel like she's accept her as a person and who she is.

Hope, what do you think?

I'm just here with my baby. I mean, I will respect her mother at any cost. Like that's basically my elder. Older than me, I'm of course respect her, but I just feel like I'm nothing but good and like in the house respectful, all that. So I feel like I should be nothing but accepted.

And Lacey, is that your opinion?

So I am, I'm my mom's child. So any situational get back that I had, my mother accepted whoever. I brought in my life. But just like I do, she would speak on it. Reagan is my 2.0, but she's everything I wanted to be and then some.

That's beautiful.

And I tell her that all the time. She has so much ambition, but like she said, she won't get up off the couch sometimes.

No, I ain't mad either, but—

It's the truth. It's the truth. I have my moments of laziness. I do. It could be a period of time. It could be 2, 3 weeks where I just don't wanna do anything. I barely wanna move. Yeah. And it'll pile up. It'll pile up and it'll look bad. Even if I feel like in the inside that I'm trying, it doesn't show that I'm trying. Knowing that I am, it frustrates me though.

Yeah.

There's no excuse. I still have to get up.

I'm gonna let you know something before we get into any more of this is that I gotta correct you very quickly. You're not lazy. You have dealt with something traumatic in your youth. You dealt with something traumatic as well. And you both all have not fully dealt with the emotions and the grief of what happened to you. And what you're describing is depression. And I'm assuming by that response, neither of you have ever seen a doctor or someone who could talk to you about that?

So look, I've been through so much in my life that I have a session and then usually they say, okay, make a next month appointment. The doctor never has a slot open.

Got it. Got it.

And then we're back in now square one. So it's like, it's repetitive. I haven't found that therapist that you need.

Yeah. So that's why I'm here to let you know. So when you say things like I'm lazy, I'm doing these things, you're not. You're actually doing the best you can with dealing with the trauma and the pain you are. And I want you to release that guilt off of yourself. I want you to release that burden, both of y'all. Because especially as a young woman, if you don't release that burden now, that will hold you down because you'll always think like, I'm not doing good enough, even though you're trying your best. So just please, for me, don't call yourself lazy anymore.

Okay.

I know, Reagan, your mother has opened her house to Hope because she She loves you.

Yeah.

How do you think that the fighting between you two is stressing her out?

She doesn't need to see that. One, why would she wanna see her daughter going through that?

Mm-hmm. I mean, I can't lie to you. The reason that I read them results before y'all came out here is because I was appalled by how many times y'all call each other the B-word. Yeah. It seemed like a pet name.

Yeah.

And y'all could tell me, do y'all, Hope, you quiet over there, but I saw, I know you not quiet in real life, 'cause I saw your mouth in them text messages.

Girl, I mean, it's not a good word. I know I should never call her that. Like, that's outta pocket. It's not really no but either. It's just, it's outta pocket. I don't really have an excuse. I really don't want an excuse to say behind that word, 'cause that's a powerful word that we just tossing around like a beanbag. To be honest, we're together 25/8. Honestly, we do everything together.

Y'all remind me of all my little young lesbian friends when I was young, y'all ladies. They was booed up like married already. It was like a year, married.

Yeah. 2 weeks.

2 weeks. It took 2 weeks. I knew it. I figured. You know what they call that? It's called codependence. You do know that, right?

Yeah, yeah, right.

Do you spend time with your mom without Hope?

I don't. I haven't.

Talk to your mom. Tell her why you don't spend time with her without your girlfriend.

It's not that I don't want to. Of course, of course I would love to just spend quality time with you. I feel like if it was expressed, you know, me and you, we should go do something, it would be no problem.

Well, if you two are gonna live with your mom, your mom needs to give you some boundaries. Do you got any boundaries for them?

Yeah, just get up. I know sometimes it's hard. It's hard for me too, but I gotta go to work every day, even if I'm crying at work.

You know that, right?

Get up, make your rounds in the house, go to work. You're doing it. You know, we ain't talked about financial. Yeah, 'cause like I said, I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about you getting up and out of there. Right. You know, put food in the house and hope you doing it. And so—

What about the fights, Mom?

They gotta stop, definitely.

You telling me. What I want is for the fact that you two are gonna spend more time with each other, your mother is allowing you to be in the house and I think it needs to be a boundary of like, if this continues to be this unhealthy, that you all have to respect yourself enough as human beings to say, you know what, we can't, because this codependency and whatever y'all got going on, it's only gonna get worse and worse and worse. And right now I'm gonna tell you this, and I'm not saying this will happen, I can only track patterns, is that right now y'all are calling each other Bs, waking up in the morning, y'all going off on each other and it's big things. There's one day that that gets physical.

Yeah. Yeah.

Your first relationship shouldn't be this heavy. I would say some of the first thing y'all has to do is get a different job. Y'all don't need to be working together. So I would tell you, as I can give y'all the close of this, I'm glad that we were able to, for y'all to get answers, y'all not cheating, but also more so, which was most important to me, is that some truths came out that your mother need to know about you. And so this relationship can start to mend. And this relationship, you now start to figure out how can you figure out if this is not gonna be healthy, it needs to end. All right?

Yeah. All right.

Hopefully y'all all got something and I wish y'all all the best of luck. Thank you. You guys start off, $20,000 is a lot of money. So please tell me, what's the story of this $20,000? So I mean, first I think we gotta go back to where it all began. Yeah. Growing up, my father wasn't around much. He was an addict. Okay. He was able to hide the fact that he was an addict because he was such a damn good liar. Like such a good con man, right? He's an abuser. He blames all of it on addiction, but it's just who he is, I think. So all of that is leading you to believe that he took this money. So what did your father say about the money? So my grandmother died. She had money, she had a lot of money.

Okay.

She spoiled him growing up. Everybody in the family knows this. He was known for being a spoiled brat and my grandmother would bail him outta everything. When my grandmother died, she left me $20,000 to go to college. Only stipulation was that had to have my name, had to go to college. When I was in high school, I think my junior year, he told me that he was getting his associate's degree. At the end of high school though, I asked him where my money was and he told me that it disappeared. What's interesting about that thing about the associate's degree is because you said that part of the stipulation was the $20,000 was to you as long as you went to college and is in your name. Exactly. And so you and your father have the same name. So do you think that your father went to college just to take your money? I think he went to college just to take my money. It made zero sense that he would go to college for anything considering He doesn't have anything that he wants to do for a degree. He's all— Did he finish? I believe so. I haven't spoke to him in a while. How long has it been since y'all spoke? About 2 and a half years. 2 and a half years, got it. The last time I spoke to him, he told me stop contacting him. Oh wow. Yeah, he told me stop contacting him because I wasn't giving up on the money that he had said my grandmother left for me for college. Was your father around when you were growing up? Not much. Growing up, He had visitation rights here and there, but I would go visit him in halfway houses and all types of things. Like, we slept different places. He tried, he tried somewhat, but he's a shithead, he can't help it, I guess. Was he abusive towards you? Yes, for about a year when I was around 12. Got it. We were living in Dayton, Ohio. When we were living with him, it went from, You know, living in an abandoned house in Dayton where there were roaches and mice and all types of stuff. Like, you could go into the kitchen and the mice and the roaches, they're just there. They don't run, they're just there. That's how comfortable they— it was more their home than it was ours. Wow. Then we moved to a second home in Dayton. And in that second home, one morning, I think probably about 2 weeks into us staying in the second home, I was home. He woke me up with a belt, you know, beating me. Like, he didn't say anything. He didn't just wake me up first. I turn around and I get smacked in the face with a belt, you know. I get up. I think he said, you want to fight your mama? You want to argue with your mama? I have no idea what he's talking about, but he's in some Timberland boots with basketball shorts on, no underwear, because I know because his stuff is just hanging all in the wind. But he's like, you want to fight me? He's Fight me, fight me. So I'm not a punk. I'm no bitch. So I fight back somewhat, or at least I try to, but my pop's 6'7". He boxed and wrestled in the Army. He's beating me up, he puts down the belt, he's like, fight back, fight back, like I'm getting initiated into a gang or something. And you know, essentially it took me a while to comprehend the fact that that was abuse because I've always been accustomed to fighting back. I'm from Detroit. I come from nothing. I had to fight for everything I have. But growing up, I realized how much it really messed me up. He beat the shit outta me. So when you got to high school, you started to try to, you got outta that household because he stayed on drugs. Is he sober now? He claims he is. I don't believe him though. My producer, and this is striking me 'cause my producers, I remember telling me earlier that your father, told you something about his kidneys. What did he tell you about his kidneys? Yes. So my junior year in high school, he contacted me and he said that his kidneys were failing. I took that as he's dying. And I mean, I was thinking all types of things like, man, would I be able to give him one of my kidneys? So he slowly, we started talking again. He came down to Texas and watched watched a football game and he went down for my graduation. The night of my graduation, we went to dinner and when it was me, him, and his wife, and when he went to the restroom, I asked his wife about the kidney. She said she had no idea about it. Was his wife Jamie? Yes. Okay, Jamie, you're here today, right? Hi, Jamie. Is it true that when you were at dinner that you didn't know about the kidney failure?

No, I didn't know about the kidney failure.

You didn't know about it. And how long at this point had y'all been married?

2 years.

2 years. And did you ever find out, ever, did he ever go get treatment for his kidney during that time?

We never really talked about it anymore.

Never talked about it anymore.

No, it wasn't.

How do you feel about this situation? Do you think that your husband is capable of doing this?

Stealing the money?

Stealing money?

No. From the 4 years that I know him, well, I've been married to him, I don't see him as stealing any money, not from his son. Got it.

Got it.

I just see him about trying to get back together with his son.

How do you feel about what was just said? Well, about the addiction part, got 8 years clean, he said, and I'm proud of that. 8 years clean, congratulations. Business owner, and I'm still in school, right? So what happened with the $20,000 in there? It was $30,000, right? I've never seen the will, right? And yes, my grandmother spoiled me. She died in my arms. And what was supposed to been left for me, because I was getting high at that time, that she said she wasn't gonna leave it to me. Gonna leave it to your son. I'm cool. I was cool with that. I was getting more money from her being alive than I do with her death. I'd rather for her to be here. So it ain't about the money with me, right? Never been about money. When did they pass away? 2015. 2015. Yeah. 8 years ago. Yeah. So you were still been, like you just said, you were still using at that time. Yes. Did you take your son's money? I gotta ask you clearly. No. For what reason? No. So what do you think happened to the money then? I don't know. I really don't know. I've never seen no paperwork with the money. If you're referring to my great-grandmother, right? Gramps? My grandma. Then her. I'll have access to that will.

Okay.

But I don't think anybody's been referring to Gramps as the one that left the money. Oh, you talking about my mom?

Yeah.

Oh, my mom. Yeah, she left you everything. No, me and my sister split everything, so. So is that not the one that left the money? No, my grandmother. Let's go back. My mother passed away, what, 2002? So if you received everything, you must have access to that will, right? No, I didn't. Well then how, what do you think happened to the money? Listen, listen, listen, final will and testament is a legal document. Well, you find it, son. Listen, I never said no. I'll find it. Listen, check this out, check this out. We both can't talk at the same time, right? And you always had a lot of mouth since a little boy. Oh, wow. Regardless of the situation. And that's why we always went through what we went through. You can say what you want. That's why. Listen, you can say what you want to me, but when it comes to your mom, and me and your mom, I don't even like your mom, but for you disrespecting your mom in front of me, I'm gonna put my foot in your ass. Simple, just straight. Why would you tell me that your kidneys are failing? I didn't tell you my kidneys failing. Yes, you did. Man, you such a liar. We should've took a lie detector test for that. You ain't changed at all. I don't even know what you're talking about. Well, tell me why I told nobody he was lying. Have you done everything you think you can to mend this relationship with your son? Yeah, you know, for the last 8 years I've been living real good. Have you apologized? I apologized to him face to face in Texas, right? And when he told me, he said, "I'm not gonna steal your sister's." You don't even take accountability. How you gonna make an apology? Listen. Sorry, look, apologies are action statements. Sorry is an action statement. Hold on, I haven't been, hold up, hold on. Check out the actions you've done at the same time. You take accountability for your actions when you apologize. I didn't steal your money because we both can't talk at the same time, right? So I didn't steal his money. So even for me to give him an apology, right, he won't even shut up enough for me to give him that. So I didn't steal his money, so get to that. Okay, but I'm trying to do that right now. I can't, but even without the money, I'm watching the behavior and I'm even watching how you talk to him right now, telling him to shut up, the way that you're not acknowledging the abuse and how you're saying— You've been like this forever. Like I'm watching those things. There's still patterns of what he experienced as a child that I'm seeing exhibited. Yeah, like you still got the same crackhead abusive ass tendencies. It's some drama. That's still my child. I am in the process of writing books, right? A lot of people know my story. Within a year, I'll be a published author. People are gonna read my shit. My book is in, I'm publishing it. And your book gonna be straight shit, so. We're gonna unlock the truth now to get to the truth of this. But I will tell you this, this is my advice before I end this. No matter what the test says, you stole his childhood. I do know that much. Yeah, I know, I stole his childhood. You stole his childhood. I stole his childhood. And I'm gonna tell you this, you are still stealing his dignity. I'm watching this right now. You are still stealing his dignity. So whether you stole money, you do have to reconcile the fact that there's a childhood that's stolen, his dignity is stolen, and you're not acknowledging it. I'm watching the way that you're still talking about it. If someone has expressed, as a father, if my child expressed to me, this is what you did to me, I was abused, I felt hurt by this, no matter what a child's actions are, they're still a child. And he's telling you right now that it affected him deeply. Money in this context is a synonym for security. Because what happened is, is the child did not have any security and the one bit of security that was given to him and passed down to him, he feels like the man who robbed him of his security his entire life has now taken the last bit of security that he deserves. So that's why money is an issue. You have to understand that.

Open that thing, man.

I will, I will. But your question was, why is this about money? And I'm trying to break it down to you in a way of what it is. So in this envelope is the truth of the matter. Are you ready for this? Sure. All right. So when it comes to if Eric Sr. has stolen the $20,000 or $30,000 from you, the truth is he did not take your money.

Okay.

How do you feel about that? It was a whole lot more question is, I feel like Eric Senior is a really good liar and he believes all his lies. So quite frankly, you pass a lot of your skills down to me, so I know, I know how to lie just as well. And I know that from, from the wrestling, from the lying, from the cheating, from the steal, from the conniving, from the lying that you doing up here, all that had— up here, listen, it's a lot of I want to break the cycle with From the womanizing. Yeah, 'cause like womanizing. Yeah, from everything that I lived through that I was past that I would love to break it. Oh, I'm not womanizing like you. That's why I was hoping you was gonna be the first one to go to college, but I kind of beat you there. You was supposed to be in the first gamble, but I beat you there. So you know I'm wrong. So you wanted this test so that you can repair your relationship. I'm gonna tell you again, I'm gonna tell you again, Eric Jr., you gotta gimme a moment real quickly because the way that you're communicating him right now as if it's a competition. I beat you there, I beat you there. If you really wanted to get this to be cleared up so you can move forward with him, the way you just communicate with him is still abusive. It's still abusive in it. I beat you to it. It's like, why beat him down more? Hold on, listen, because you put it out there wrong, man, so I'm not gonna let you do it. I wanted to put it because it was supposed to have been celebrated, right? Because I didn't go to college. My mother said, I saved up all this money. Yeah, you wanna be celebrated, right? And you wonder why. So, so when— But he's right in that moment. I listen, I'm an outside third party. You're talking to me though, right? And I'm trying to talk to you. But to celebrate him, you don't have to say that I made it first. No, no, no. I can celebrate. Okay, okay. I can celebrate my kids all day long and never have to tell them that I did it first. My children, one of my sons right now is getting in the industry and there are so many things he accomplished. And when he accomplished them, I say, oh my, it's good for you. I have never once come outta my mouth said, you know what? Well, I did it first. You know, Dad did it. I sit there and I say to him always, I'm so proud of you, you keep going, you keep making it. I'm always proud of him. I know, but what I'm trying to help you to see is that— He was supposed to be the first Gamble to go to college. It's the point I was supposed to make. He was supposed to have been the first Gamble to go to college. I waited till I was 50-something years old. That was the point I was trying to make. Not competition. I think he was supposed to have been the first. Every time that you were around, you know, to witness my success, it was always, you know, you just— Not you feeling good for me, but you feeling good about me. 'Cause you seem to think that my success is in some way your success. It's not, not at all. I didn't play no part in you getting here. Everything that I have, I worked for. You are, and quite frankly, I don't need you in my life. Okay, listen, I will tell you this, I'll tell you this. I'm cool with that. I'm cool with that. I think that was a, you made your point clear of where you stand in your life right now. Listen, Eric Jr., I wanna let you know something. I believe in you. You have accomplished so, so much and you are gonna do really great things in your life. And I don't want you to let anybody, not even your father, put limits on what you can accomplish because you're gonna accomplish great things. I know there's a lot of trauma and things that you have not been able to deal with that you're not gonna get answers for, but you can still overcome this as you already have and you can still soar. So just keep soaring. We all believe in you. Trust me, okay? I believe in you, all right? Good luck. I wish you all the best. All right everyone, thank you for being with us. Make sure to come back next time, friends, so we can keep talking and we can keep growing. I love you all. Thank you. Good luck.

Good luck.

Yeah, good luck, man. No, he did, you know, A lot of stuff was said, right? A lot of stuff I could have said, but I did not attempt to damage my son. I want him to be successful. I just wanted my name cleared with this money, you know? Kind of hurt behind the situation. I got a relationship with him.

Kind of made—

he made me look bad, I did, but I'm okay with that. And I would never make him look bad. I don't kiss nobody ass, not even my son's. So if he don't want nothing I did my part. I can sleep well now. I'm cool with that.

I was shot 9 times, and my son was shot twice. My daughters, they all was in the house. It was a home invasion. Everything did change in an instant on that morning. I'm paralyzed from the waist down, and I'm in a wheelchair. My son, Kwani, was only 11 at the time. He was shot twice in the legs. Maymay was 8, my baby was a couple weeks old. The trauma is definitely, definitely still real for us. And now I feel like I'm fighting another battle for my daughter's life. Maylana's 14 and she acts like an adult. She be getting suspended from school, she be stealing from the store. She disrespected me, calling me all type of names. We was arguing and then she said, "Stand on it. Oh, I forgot you can't." So that was the hurtfullest thing she ever said to me. Maylana Laura needs to know as long as I'm around, she's not gonna be that baddie that she claims that she wanna be. My kids need to know whether I'm in this wheelchair or not, I'm still their mother. When I first got shot, I was very like, you know, mean, like I didn't even wanna be here. So I was a certain kind of way where, you know, that probably could turn somebody away from me. But like I said, I didn't wanna be here. I was going through something. So I feel like right now I'm kind of trying to redeem myself with them a little bit. It changed everything from respect to everything.

It changed respect. In what way do you feel like it changed respect?

Because they don't respect me from this chair. They don't listen to anything that I say.

Is your daughter, has she become negative and argumentative with you?

Very.

Uh-huh. In what ways?

I can't tell her nothing. She's not in school. She was kicked outta school. She stole from the stores, but it's all because of other people. Like, 'cause when we lived somewhere else, she didn't do it.

And she fighting at school too?

She was fighting in school, physical with the teachers as well. I be feeling like school could make you not like your kids 'cause they always calling. Mm-hmm. You know? So, and that's what I be trying to tell Meme, like, it's like things give me a reason to be mad at you. Like, I be just minding my business and either you do something where the cops gotta be knocking at my door or the school is calling me.

Yeah. That's the realest thing I've ever heard anybody say. And I've never heard anybody say this, but I just took myself back to when my son was in 9th grade and he was having some problems. When you just said school will make you feel like you don't like your kid, that is the realest. I mean, every time my phone rang when I was at work, I was like, you a damn lie. My phone isn't. I was like, my phone is not ringing again. And it was like my frustration was just, I've never heard anyone put it like that, but it is the realest thing I've ever heard.

And then it's the stuff that they tell you.

Yeah, of course. No, I get it. Yeah, I feel you. That's why when you said that, I was like, I understand.

And then when I'm telling her what they're telling me, she'll buck up at me like, why you getting mad at me for them telling me what you did?

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I gotta ask you, what do you remember about that day in August of 2018?

When I woke up, my mom was on the floor. She told me to go outside 'cause she got shot. So I went outside and I called the cops and they came.

Got it. And what do you feel like your mom does not understand about you?

That I'm gonna do stuff and she's not going to accept it. Like, yes, I'm gonna go outside with my friends and she always want me to go in the house and do chores every day and I'm not gonna do that.

What kind of chores does she want you to do?

Like the dishes. I'm not gonna do that. I do my own dishes. You're lying. Clean up after the cats. And I do. And you don't. Anyways.

You do realize teenagers have chores, right?

Mm-hmm. Okay.

That we all get. Okay, for sure. That we all get. Okay.

She was able to get $80 a week, right? Right? She got it one time. First of all, she didn't gimme the money. I gave you $40 'cause I said I'mma hold $40. I'm smart. You ain't even hold that $40 up. Okay, well like, where's my other $40 though? Oh. You didn't do it the next week. Whatever. What? Think about it, be for real though. Why would I give you the whole $80? I explained everything to you. I still don't get it. You gonna get $40 and then I'mma hold $40. Did you clean up the next week to even get another $40? To even be able to save another $40? Okay, I tried, but— You never consistent. We can have heart to hearts. First of all. We can have all that and it doesn't get to you. I do do my chores too. When my brother was in a program doing my chores, you're just ungrateful.

That's all you said.

And then you tell me that I don't do chores. Okay, yes I do. If you did, why I got to tell you to do it then? Make it make sense. And y'all can shut the up too. Make it make sense. All right, so what's going on?

What just made you say Why?

Because they keep, yeah, like if you got something to say, say it.

Because they were having a reaction to how you acted?

Yeah.

Okay. Tell me from your opinion, why did you get kicked outta school?

'Cause I was fighting and I got a smart mouth.

Mm-hmm. Where you think you got the smart mouth from?

Her.

Okay. And why were you fighting at school?

Because these got me fucked up.

And what do they have you messed up about?

Say pop like it won't do nothing. But these is people that be friends. These is people that be friends though. These is people that be friends that she'll sneak out the window and do all type of shit and then y'all fight.

Okay, okay. And I heard you was stealing stuff. You was stealing makeup and hair stuff. Hair dye.

Yep.

You told my producers something that they just told me, which is you think your mother uses her wheelchair to make people feel sorry for her?

Yep. How the fuck can I use this wheelchair to make people feel sorry? Because you do that. I do everything by myself. Okay, watch your mouth. Like I said, like you said, explain. Like, nobody was not coming at you crazy. Like I said, explain. Talk to her friends. Don't waste your breath. Why you still talking though? I'm talking to him. Explain. Like I said, she literally talked to her friends about me, and all she says, I'm in a wheelchair. Yeah, she gonna do this in a wheelchair. In a wheelchair. That's all you— if I was standing up, first of all, I'd be doing none of this. You don't know that. You don't know that. You are a liar. I'm not lying. You're lying. Since we moved to our new house, you've been cleaning my house? Yes. Yo, I swear to God. It was only me at the house. I'm not lying. I'm not even playing right now.

You telling my producers that you're lying?

I ain't even playing with you right now. I'm not lying. You are.

You telling my producers that your mom uses you?

Yes, she maces me.

Do you mace her? You do?

Yes. She put her hands on me. Did you hit me with a bottle? You're lying. You're— is you lying? No, ma'am, they said you hit me in my head with a bottle. No. Oh my God, Maymay, you ain't hit me in the head with a bottle?

I'm not lying. Well, Maymay, you ain't hit me in the head with a bottle?

Like I said, she literally— I did it. Go get my phone. Go get her phone.

What happened?

What's in the phone? Go get your phone. You really lying out here. Go get your phone. Maymay, did you hit me in my head with a bottle? I didn't. You did not hit me in the head with a bottle? No, I didn't. She literally come in my room and maces the whole room. It's literally orange on the wall. You literally threatened to mace me too. I'm not lying. Okay, so— I'll mace you again, you bitch. Hit me with a bottle. And what you talking about? I did not, bro. You ever lie on me? I'm not lying.

I'm gonna let you go back.

No, you are lying.

Yeah, so that you can see it. And then bye to you too.

You mad? Yeah, you're not even talking to you.

She says that her and your brother are Survivors. That's what she constantly says. My producers told me you said, she always says they're survivors. Does she call you a survivor?

No.

She doesn't call you a survivor? Mm-mm. Got it, got it. See, like I said to you, I saw the real you. You're 14 years old and I know the behavior we all watch, we're seeing you mimic it. We heard how your mom talks to you, so we know why you talk this way. So I don't blame you. And I don't think you're a bad person either. I actually think you're pretty intelligent. I actually think you're pretty responsible. I actually think a lot, I think very highly of you, even with what I saw on this stage.

Thank you.

I do. I do believe you when you said that you have been taken care of a lot. When it feels like it's my responsibility responsibility where I feel like I don't know how to have a time to just be a kid. When I feel like I'm always having to do something and it's been years compounded. To your mom, it might seem like, oh, you're lazy today. But for you it feels like I've always been doing this, right?

Yes.

Yeah, I know. Talk to me about what you're going through.

I'm going through a lot. How my mom just don't understand me at all. And I'm like, talk to her. I keep trying to talk to her, but like, I just really can't talk to her.

What do you want her to know?

Like how I'm feeling when she's like calling me out my name and stuff.

How do you feel?

Like she brings me down. Like she talks about me. Like she calls me like a whore. I'm not a whore. I know who I am. I don't know, but like.

Yeah. So it brings you down. If your mom's calling you out your name every minute, like, yeah, it could bring you down and make you react a certain way. I totally understand. I'm not saying it's right. So hear me out. I'm not saying it's right, but I understand it and I get it and I don't blame you. Does it feel nice to have somebody who understands you a little bit?

Yes.

Yeah, I can imagine. I talked to her. But can I ask you this? And this is where we gotta take accountability as adults, as parents. Would you talk to another little 14-year-old girl the way you talk to her?

I do.

You talk to other 14-year-old girls on the street like that?

If they saying something to me smart, is that what you mean? 'Cause I'm not just gonna come up to a 14-year-old girl and be mean to her. And we not gonna make it seem like she came outta me and I was talking to her like that. We not gonna make it seem like that either.

I'm not gonna make it through.

Through overtime. This is somebody I gotta be around that'll look at me in a wheelchair. Somebody'll tell me to stand on that. Oh, I forgot you can't. Oh, that's some kid shit to you?

That's still a kid.

Oh.

'Cause you know kids say nasty things.

Oh, they do?

And unfortunately they say nasty things to their parents sometimes too.

Oh, I did not know that. I did not know a kid would say that to their mother.

Yeah, I've heard worse.

That's crazy. That's a shame.

It is a shame.

It's a shame.

But what I want you to understand is that it doesn't make it right. And I'm sorry she said it to you. Mm-hmm. Because you've been through a lot.

What I'm supposed to say? Oh baby, don't say that shit. What I'm supposed to say?

I didn't say that.

Tell me. No, I want you to tell me for real what I'm supposed to say. I really honestly wanna know. Like I really do.

I will tell you that matching her energy is not gonna help you to figure out what to say or to figure out how to make this relationship better.

So I'm just supposed to feel this small as a child?

I don't think you should feel this way about it.

It's saying something to me.

But it's the communication.

Even if I'm telling her to leave me alone, get out my face, none of that works. I still just gotta be the bigger person.

Unfortunately.

Oh, can't do it.

Unfortunately.

Can't do it.

See, that's the breakdown. I know that you say that you and Quan are survivors.

We are survivors.

Do you feel like she's a survivor?

She's a survivor? Of course.

You ever say that?

I told her she a superhero. That's enough to say.

A superhero.

I never said she was a survivor 'cause she ain't get shot. I ain't know I had to say that to her.

Okay, so hear me out. The problem is that her being 14 is also compounded by the trauma y'all both feel. You gotta understand that what she went through and what she's experiencing, she didn't understand. She didn't have the words. Just the same way you didn't have the words. And she's still trying to figure it out. What I do know for a fact is your daughter loves you and she wants the bond back with you.

And no, she don't.

If you can't believe that she wants to bond back with you, then there's not gonna be any work that I can do to help y'all because you gotta believe she wants to bond back. I asked your daughter one thing. If I could help your mother to understand the same grace you deserve, she deserves grace, would you come back out there "And model not disrespecting your mom." And she gave me her word. See, this is where I get to see what you see. Either she's gonna do it or she won't.

All I'm saying is this little girl does not get asked for much but to go to school, clean up, be respectful.

I get it.

Don't get piercings, don't dye your hair.

I understand.

And then we gotta go through all this.

But that everything you just said.

Your mother just telling you to clean up and you can look at her and say.

But I need you to hear.

I stand on that.

The issue you just said is a fort— See what you just did again? This is why I told you.

Oh, y'all never gonna forget that.

Well see, if you can't forget that, then y'all are never gonna have a healthy relationship.

I know. You know, it's only a couple people that said some shit about this wheelchair that'll never get the same me again.

Are y'all crazy? Hold on, you just said the issue right there. There's a couple people who have said things about me in this wheelchair who would never get the same me again. And unfortunately, one of those people is your daughter. Mm-hmm. So that is something that you have to heal before I can heal the relationship with you and your daughter.

And I don't know how to do it, so I don't know.

If I get your daughter to apologize, can you receive it?

I guess.

You guess? All right, so I talked to your mother. And we talked about what we talked about. I shared her with what I said with you. And I understand her feelings as well. I understand how she's feeling. But there's a comment that you made to your mother that still sticks with your mom. And I know when we feel hurt, we say things 'cause we on a jab. Do you remember what you said to your mother?

Mm-hmm.

What was it?

You can't walk, something like that. But like I said it 'cause like she was coming at me crazy.

Hold on.

Sorry.

I understand, I understand. I heard you and I heard her. She came at you crazy so you said something that you felt was gonna hurt her back. I know. Can you apologize to your mother for that comment? And really mean it.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I would never accept you because you fucking said that shit to me 'cause all I do is tell you to clean the shit up. Are you crazy? Well, first of all, you— That's all I tell you to do is clean up and go to school and you had the audacity to say some dumbass shit like that to me? Okay. Oh, fuck.

So you came to me to help you to fix this, to heal the heartache that y'all got? And I saw the path to it. And I think we all understand the path to y'all healing it. But that path for y'all healing this relationship is going to start with you. And I'm gonna tell you that right now. If you want your relationship back with your daughter, it's gonna start with you. I'm gonna tell you this. As I told you before, I know there's a very smart, responsible young woman inside of you. I know it, I've seen it, I understand it. Even you taking the opportunity to model that behavior and try to like apologize and do it when I know you felt uncomfortable, I understand. I see who you are. And I think that there's still even more room to grow. I know you don't need to steal. I know that you want a relationship with your mother. I know you do. You're gonna have to do some work too. And you're young right now, but you can start to learn that you can actually make different choices. But also you have to.

Yeah, I know. Yeah.

And you're not ready to. It's you gotta forgive these moments.

Why would I say I forgive her when I think she gonna do it again? How about I know she gonna do it again?

Well, that's the cycle there. Until you can forgive and believe that forgiveness, you're never gonna see your daughter the way that you're supposed to see your daughter. And that's the truth. Sad part is this little girl actually just wants her mother back. See, all this playfulness, the looking at her, it's like she's looking to be a kid with her mom Mom wants her to be an adult. Mom should have said sorry, but Mom needed to heal first. She doesn't feel like anybody respects her anymore because Mom's behavior was built on her strength. That was what her personality was built on. I'm strong, and yeah, I survived this, but now I feel like nobody respects me. And the person I need to respect me the most is my daughter, and she doesn't respect me. But the daughter's just like, I don't even know if I I respect myself. I don't know what's going on in the world. So that's sad. All right, we're going to figure it out together. All right, thanks for y'all for being around for that.