6 Most Memorable Dads | KARAMO

I said what?

You told me I was acting like one of your side chicks. That's what you said to me.

You, that's—

That's what you said to me.

No, I didn't.

Yes, you did. Yes, you did. You said that to me.

I can see the emotions, they're boiling up. I see the tears. It's important for you to get this relationship back on track.

Yes, it is.

How long have you felt like this relationship with your father has been off track?

All my life.

All your life?

Yes.

Tell me about it.

Oh Lord, where do I start?

What happens when you try to talk to him?

Every time I try to talk to him about how I feel, it turns into an argument. It turns into him blaming my mama.

Okay, got it.

And he don't want to take the blame or responsibility for nothing.

Yeah. When did you last see your father?

I saw him yesterday.

Okay.

Other than that, last time I saw him was in August.

In August?

Yeah, August when my grandfather passed away.

Okay. And your father has another daughter, Shatira. What is their relationship like?

They close. He live with her.

Oh, he lives with her. So why does your father, 'cause you said this earlier, why does your father blame your mother for the distance in your relationship?

I'm just gonna be honest. My mama, when she had me, she stopped dealing with him. She closed that chapter and said, "We ain't gotta see each other. You can see your child." Okay. My mom, she didn't say anything bad about him until I turned 18. That's when she started telling me the truth.

But up until then it was like—

She protected him.

That's interesting. Does he know that?

Probably not.

Got it, okay. How do you get along with your mom?

My mom is my best friend. I love my mama.

Yeah, okay, good. So my producer tell me that sometimes you're unhappy with your sister, your stepsister, Shaterra? Yeah, my half sister. Your half sister, excuse me, your half sister. Why are you upset with her sometimes?

'Cause she always throws it up in my face that her and my daddy close. Like when she had her last child, she was like, "He cooked for me, he cleaned up the house, he did all of this and all of that." And I'm just like, "He ain't do that for me." Yeah.

Well, how are you hoping that the family dynamic will change? What do you want?

I just want him to love me.

Got it, I hear you. Well, I think it's time to meet Takya's sister, Shatira. So everyone, please welcome Shatira to the show. Hi, Shatira, how you doing? Take a seat for me. What do you think about what Takia's just been saying?

I think a lot of it is true, but the part about her mom just cutting my dad off and saying, you know, you can have a relationship with her and not me, I can tell you from the way that she did me, me trying to pick up Takya, trying to talk to her on her birthdays, trying to go see her, her mom never allowed it. Aside from my dad, you know, I guess she didn't want them, you know, her to be exposed to the bad side of him or get her feelings hurt or whatever. But when I would try to call, when I became an adult, it was always some excuse. Excuse.

Did you know this? Did you know that your mom stopped your sister from seeing you?

My mama didn't trust my sister.

She didn't trust the sister.

It's like she didn't trust anyone. Like I was one of her friends trying to come to play instead of her family that she should spend time with. My dad was in and out of my life as well, and he was married to my mom for, for years. When she was born, they, they were married. They, they were married up until I was like 12, 14.

Hold on, so let me get that. So when your mother, your mother and father were married and did your father have affair with your mother? Mm-hmm. And so that's, okay. And did they stay married? Yes. So they stayed married after the affair? Yes. This makes more sense, okay. And so he was in and out of your life that entire time.

Yes.

Did you know that?

He's been in and out of prison. It's been a lot of situations to where we would have to leave. Like they all, my mom and dad always fought all the time and it's him, Coming to my house now and being with me, giving birth to my last daughter and cooking and cleaning and stuff for me, this just happened. My daughter is 7 months old.

Got it.

And so he just, 'cause he felt like he owed that to me because he knows that he's been in and out of all of our lives.

Yeah.

He knows this.

How does that make you feel knowing that she didn't get a relationship with your father either?

She saw more than I did.

Got it.

And that's not all on him. Like I said, her mom kept her away from us. Oh Lord.

Why do you say oh Lord?

Can we please stop blaming my mama? Please, please stop blaming my mama. We cannot stop blaming her. Yes, you can. Because she partake. Yes, you can. You can stop blaming my mama. Stop it. Not the whole thing. Stop it. He got his part. Stop mentioning my mama. Stop it, Shaterra. Yes, you can. Stop it. He got his part, but she also done— Stop it, stop it, don't mention my fucking mama, bro, stop it. How am I supposed to not mention her mama? Stop it. How? Stop it, for real, stop it. I'm telling you what she did to me, not him. What did she do to you? Kept me from seeing you every time I tried to call you for your birthday. Okay, my mama was protecting me. Well, she was protecting you then, that's the reason why you don't have a relationship with him. My mama not the reason I don't got a relationship with him. Let's just put it out there. My mama is not the reason. He is. He's the reason. Him. Not my mama. It sound like you don't wanna hear the truth.

So when it comes to your relationship with your sister, I understand with your relationship with your father, your father's a grown man. He should have his own choices. Do you believe that your mother could have had some part to play in you two not being close? Do you believe that?

My mama is very overprotective.

Okay.

She didn't allow me around nobody but my grandparents. I understand. My grandparents didn't allow me around nobody.

I get that. But this is your sister, and if your sister's trying to reach out to you, of course your father's a different situation, but I'm looking at your sister right now who's saying she didn't have a relationship with her father. I can tell even through her calmness, she has just as much pain. And that's not to compare the pain, but it's saying she's had her own experience where she didn't have a father in her life and she tried to reach out to you and she was stopped. So—

She wasn't stopped like that.

Okay. You know, Takaya's mother, LeLe, is joining us right now remotely from Arkansas and I wanna talk to her right now. So everyone, please welcome LeLe to the show.

Hello.

What do you have to say about to what you just heard?

First thing first, if Takaiya don't want to go nowhere, I'm not finna make her go anywhere. A lot of times Takaiya didn't want to go because she'll tell me what would go on and I say, baby, you don't gotta go. Takaiya, how many times have I went broke taking you to Red Lobster and taking you out to eat, bribing you to go with him? A lot of times.

So she wanted you to go with them and you decided that you didn't want to go?

Yeah.

Was this both your father and your sister?

Mm-hmm.

Okay. So she, so Lay Lay, from your point of view, you tried to get her to go and she didn't wanna go?

Yes, because her past experiences.

So in your opinion then, why don't you think she has a relationship with her father?

It's, I really don't have an opinion on that because just like I know she's here, he know it. Just like I know she need things, he know it too. So it's completely on him.

Takya, since you came into this world, you've been part of this family, you've been part of my life.

Doesn't feel like it. Never felt like it.

How?

What do you mean how?

I can only do what I can do. I got 4 other kids and 3— Okay, yeah.

Listen. Yeah, you always say that.

And that's the truth. But none of that means nothing when you can come around. You've always been able to do that. So now I gotta take some heat for behind your choice in life when that wasn't even the case. Would you like to be closer with Takaiya? What kind of question? Yes, that's my baby. I'm only asking because those are her concerns. She came out here and she told me that she just wants to be closer with you. And I want whatever she want times 10. Kai, what do you wanna say to your dad?

I just want us to be close, closer than what we are. That's all I ever wanted. Okay.

And that's all I want too. Tell him, what does that look like to you?

Me and you hanging out. That's it. Me and you. It ain't never just been me and you, never. Yesterday, last night was the most I ever spent with you. And that's sad, sad as fuck. And like, I understand that you had your issues. My mama had her issues too, but at the end of the day, she never left me.

Is there anything, Terry, that you wanna say to Layla? I really appreciate her taking care of my daughter. That's it. Your request is pretty simple, but it's not even just about you right now, it's about both of you. Both of your daughters are hurting tremendously. And what they're both saying is make me feel special. Make me feel like I'm your daughter that you love. Have time for just me. Ask me how I'm doing. Really talk to me about what I went through. Listen to me more. Am I right, ladies?

Yes. Right. 'Cause do you remember what you said to me on my 15th birthday? No. I do. I asked you for a cake the week before and the lady you was with, we got the same birthday. I told you to just spend that day with her, 'cause I already knew you wasn't gonna do nothing. And you know what you said? You know what you said to me?

What'd I say?

You said I was acting like one of your side chicks. No. Yes, yes you did. You said that to me.

I said what?

You told me I was acting like one of your side chicks. That's what you said to me!

You—

That's what you said!

No, I didn't!

Yes, you did! Yes, you did! You said that to me!

Terry, this is a moment where you practice and you show up. Her past and her experiences, you defending it is never gonna help you to build a relationship you want with your daughters now. Defending—

I never got an apology, a real apology from you. That's all I ever wanted.

Show her you wanna show up and make her special now. Show her.

Shut up, Terry. Hold on, Karamo. It's you to say, "Baby, I'm sorry." You telling me that?

Listen, listen, if I did that— I'm sorry, baby, I'm sorry. Good. There you go. That's how you show it.

Let it out, baby. Let it out. You've been holding it in too long. Let it out. Now you get to dry the tears I've been drying. Love it.

You deserve this as well. No, you do. That's why I brought you in. I brought you in as well because I see what you need as well. And I know you're trying to be big tough, big sister.

She needs it way more than I do.

I know, but that doesn't take away what would you need. And as a mother, I know you're already in the mindset that I gotta take care of everybody else. You deserve this too.

Listen, he allowed me my time to express. Like I said, he ain't never been the perfect dad. And so when I expressed to him, he listened to me. The thing about this is she never got her chance. She never got her chance.

She's getting her chance now. Terry, I gotta tell you what you just did right there. Moving closer to your dad too. What you just did right there was a huge big step. Instead of defending anything from your past, You just showed up and held your daughter and let her know she was special. That's what you did.

Beautiful.

There you go.

Beautiful.

Takia, how do you feel right now?

I finally feel loved.

You finally feel loved. Terry, you took a very big first step here. And I believe that if you continue this, because I can see, by the way, you being in her life, that you do wanna step up, that you wanna start making amends for any past decisions. I can see where you're at in your life. And what you're doing today is what's gonna keep you building this bond with your daughters. Show them each they're special. And if anything comes up from that past, don't defend it. Just show them in that moment, I wanna make it up to you now. I'm gonna show you you're special now. You did the best work you could ever done here to start mending the relationship with your daughters. You hear me, man? Thank you. Congratulations. Y'all taking the first step to a healthy family. So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna do this separately. I'm gonna buy you two dinner tonight so y'all can have just dinner together.

Thank you.

Okay, 'cause I want, she wants time with her dad, all right? And then I'm gonna buy y'all a second dinner so y'all can have dinner, all three of y'all, because y'all need to bond as a family. Because that's all she was asking for. Not anything else, just a little one-on-one time and then a little time for y'all to heal together. How do y'all feel about that?

Good?

Yeah? All right. I wish y'all the best of luck. Y'all gonna be all right, all right? Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you. You look very pretty in this red.

Thank you.

Yes. So Nisa, I just gotta get to it because reading that, You went through a lot of hard things when you were younger. Tell me about it.

Yeah, I did go through a lot of hard things when I was younger. Like, I don't wanna start tearing up. Like, my mom, like, she's very abusive. Like, she was a drug addict and, you know, like, it was really hard for me because, like, at that tender age, like, I didn't really understand. So I was looking for love. I was looking for the love and it was always absent. Like, to the point where, I wasn't going to school. I didn't know how to be around other children, so I had to learn how to act around other people.

Yeah, your social skills were gone.

Exactly. Not eating for days. I was being traded, like my body, she was selling me for drugs. And it was just hard. It was just like, I felt like, why did I exist?

Yeah, so your potential father rescued you.

My hero, yeah. Your hero. I still call him my dad because no matter what the results say today, like I still feel that energy, that connection. Like my dad came to rescue me when I was like 10 and I was born again. I was back in school, I was around kids my age. Like I was literally eating every day.

Yeah.

Like, and all of this, All of the things that young girls today hate about their dads, like he's always asking where I'm at or he's overprotective, that was what I was longing for. That's what I wanted. And I got that, but it took some time.

Yeah. And you were in a crack house at that time when he found you.

Yeah, I was.

Was that your first time seeing him again?

Yeah, that was my first time seeing him again because what my mom did was hide me from him because she was, She was taking it, she was exploiting me. She was taking advantage of me. Not for what mothers do like with daughters. Like this was like to the extreme level. Like every time he would try to get close, pack up, let's go to a different hotel or motel or crack house, you know?

In that time period, how did you stay so strong?

Never lose hope. Like for anybody that's going through or has been through what I'm going through, always keep that strength.

Good for you. So where are you right now in your life?

I have my own place. Like, I'm a makeup and hairstylist. Working hard, like, you know, and trying to be that figure. Like, whoever is out there watching and is going through what I'm going through, just know that you're gonna make it.

You better preach.

No, you keep preaching. It's not about what you've been through or like your past. It's about your future. Like, you don't hold onto the past 'cause that's never gonna shape you. Future. Like for me, when I went with— when my dad came to rescue me, I say that like Superman, like that restored my hope and my faith. Like, okay, like I actually get to— like I belong here. Like I could— I'm human, you know? So then I started with my passion, like doing hair, doing makeup, and being social because like I realized that I like being around people.

Yeah, yeah, right. That hope and finding your passion and never giving up, I think it's so great. But I also think it was part of it is that yes, your hero came into your life and got you. But what I love about this is that it's a story of understanding we all need support. And sometimes in the darkest moments we forget that support's out there. So I'm glad that your father, your potential father could be that hope for you and could be that support for you. So then why are you here today?

One day I heard him talking over the phone. I just heard him say, you know, it's been years and I don't know how to tell her that I might not be her dad.

Wow. And— 'Cause were you living with him at this point?

No, I wasn't. I was already, I was grown.

Oh, you were grown at this point?

Yeah.

So when he rescued you, you lived with him and he took care of you?

Yeah, like my own dad. Like I never like would've thought that it could be a possibility that he wasn't my dad. But then I understand like from his point because what my mom was doing, like she was running around doing whatever she was doing. So of course, It's a possibility, but I'm here to find out and I'm here because I needed you.

Oh, thank you, thank you. I'm glad I could be here for you. So how did that make you feel when you heard him questioning it?

It made me feel horrible, but I don't hate my dad. The only thing is I just felt hurt because it was like, "Dag, you could've told me," but he probably had his own reasons. I was already damaged, so he probably didn't want me to feel like, okay, like if you're not my dad, then I don't have anybody. I'm back at square one.

Yeah. So what are you hoping for today?

I'm hoping for a miracle. I'm hoping that that's my dad. Yeah. My real dad. Because at the end of the day, like I know like he would never like leave me. He's been there. He never judged me. He's always been there rooting me.

When's the last time you talked to your mother or saw your mother?

I've heard through the grapevine that she's passed away. I don't feel any way about it because it's just like, Who's gonna be mad that the devil's gone, you know?

I understand that.

But I do have to say, I know that seemed a little bitter, but I forgave her.

It did seem bitter.

I did not see bitter. I've been forgave her. That's why I was able to move on.

Yeah, yeah. Good, okay. And just let you know, it didn't seem bitter because to hear that you were rescued from your potential father, from your father in a crack house, we can, any one of us without even experiencing that can understand why you would say, okay, you're gone. 'Cause she had her own demons that she was dealing with. And so I am glad that you have given her forgiveness and that forgiveness has allowed you to feel like you can continue to grow and I can see the woman that you've become. Well, we'll find out soon if Nate is Anissa's biological father. But before we do, let's meet Nate. Welcome to the show. And this is a very special girl.

The place that I found her in, I had to rescue her from.

No child should have gone through it. And her mother basically exploited her for her own sickness. Yeah. Now I don't wanna teach my daughter to be weak at any point, so you know, I'm trying to hold it in. I didn't know you guys could see me back there.

I didn't wanna come out and tell Anissa because I'm not sure.

And I didn't wanna mess up what she had going on in her life because that could've interfered in her education, you know, her dreams. And I didn't want her to look at me any different. Regardless of how them DNA tests come out, this is my daughter, period. This is my daughter. I gotta tell you, I know you're trying to hold it in, but your vulnerability as a man, as a Black man, is a beautiful thing to see. You being vulnerable, like I heard her earlier cry. Has she never really seen me cry?

No, I didn't.

And I don't want her to see it, but if it was me, it would hurt me too. I'm just trying to imagine if it was me on the other side and, you know, I'm all she got. Yeah. And regardless of what I want you to know, I don't care about them DNA tests. Please. You belong to me and I'm gonna take care of you regardless what.

I'm sorry, don't cry. You okay?

So were you in Anissa's life prior to rescuing her from the crack house? I mean, not really. I was young and in the beginning I didn't believe Anissa was my daughter because I found out things about her mother Some of her friends was letting me know, well, you know, that might not, she might not be pregnant by you because she be sleeping around, running around. And it broke my heart.

I just stayed away from her after that.

So you were in a relationship with her during that time when she was being pregnant? Yeah, well, I thought I was. I was just being played. Yeah, played. Yeah, but I did love her. Yeah. Were you there when Anissa was born? No, not in the hospital. Okay. But when I seen Anissa, And honestly, I don't wanna sound like an asshole, I was young. She was like the whitest baby ever. And I'm like, oh, hold on. I was like, that's a caucus baby or something.

I got a little darker.

Yeah, but she did get darker. Over the years, I was just like, nah, nah, no, no, this is not my child. And then what switched for you? Because like she said, you were a hero. You came and rescued her. What switched? You were 10 when that happened?

Yeah, I was 10.

So 10 years. Okay, so it was a lady that I knew and for some reason this lady got my number and then she called me. Actually, she called a friend of mine's and he said, "Your daughter's at this lady's house." And once I found that out, I didn't even ask myself twice. I just went to get her. Yeah. And I never told her that.

That was like the best day of my life. I couldn't be a man I couldn't be a man again. This is when Anissa was around 10 years old.

I was a little older now. Yeah, you're 26. So I know the difference between right and wrong. Yeah. So no questions, I got my daughter. Yeah. Nate, we just all saw you during the commercial break get very emotional. What was going on in your mind? She been through a lot.

I have.

You know? It's not really just for me. I wanna empower my daughter. I just want her to know that I'm here for her no matter what the outcome be. Just don't let it break you down. It's just gonna make us closer.

And I just feel the struggle that you've been through as an individual.

I know I've been there, but it didn't happen to me. My mother didn't do that to me. I just feel her pain, that's it. Yeah. But I'm here for you no matter what. Okay.

I love you. I love you too, Vanessa. I don't want you to cry.

I'm sorry.

Don't cry.

I'm sorry.

I never seen you cry like this, so. 'Cause you always taught me to be strong and headstrong, so.

What is the strength test? Yeah, I love that. These are strength tears.

Trust me, these tears is gonna water and flourish and nourish whatever the seed we planted.

Trust me.

Yes.

These are strength tears. Mm-hmm. Oh my gosh, lemme tell you something. I'm gonna say that before you just inspired something in me. Those are strength tears. I love that.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Karamo. Yeah, that's beautiful. You know, Nate has been waiting 27 years to uncover this DNA mystery. Are you both ready? Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Oh my gosh, I'm nervous, man.

What are you feeling?

Oh my gosh, like, just, I like feel so nervous, like butterflies is in my stomach. Like I almost wish that would've just left it like that, but gotta just, you know, we both deserve the truth, so.

Yeah. Well, in this envelope is the DNA outcome of if Nate is your father.

All right.

This is the moment I'm gonna give you the envelope, so that you can see what it says.

All right.

I am. I know I am. Hey!

What? Come here. I love that. I love that. I love that.

I love that. I love that. You got me for a while.

I was like, no, no, no.

You got me.

I thought, don't do that, man.

Wow.

Well, I don't have to cry no more. Yeah.

So this is your daughter. How does that make you feel? I thought I was sterile, but thank you. Yes. Thank you, thank you. Well, I'm glad that they'll have this information. And my producers told me that there's actually more to this story.

Yeah.

That there's something that you actually need to tell. Now we know for sure.

Yes.

That you actually need to tell your father.

Well, now that we have this clear, I hope you don't mind. I mean, the gray hair's coming in already, but you're gonna be a grandfather. What?

What?

What?

What? What?

What? Come here. Come here.

I'm gonna tell you this though, Nate. This is something beautiful because in this moment right now, because of your strength and your ability to step up and be vulnerable, you broke generational chains.

Thank you.

You did that.

Thank you.

You did that. Thank you. And I don't wanna leave this stage without recognizing how powerful that is because you just heard your daughter say she's gonna be the best mom. She's gonna be there. And that's because you gave her a second shot.

Exactly.

You gave her a chance. You broke generational chains. And I think not enough time we get to look at a man, especially a Black man, and say, thank you for doing that.

Thank you.

I appreciate that. Thank you, Karamo. You did that. You did that.

Thank you.

And you did it as well. 'Cause you had the strength to continue on as well. And so I'm proud of you as well. This is on you too. You know what I mean? This child is gonna be born into a life of love and support. Something that you two didn't have at first when you were first kids. You know what I mean? You had it later once you met him. But this child is now going to never have to experience that. And God willing, the next generation, the next generation on is gonna never have to think about, well, what happened if someone doesn't love me and supports me? Because y'all have changed that.

Yes, exactly. Yeah.

Good job. Thank you. Yes, of course.

I'm so happy for you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Karamo.

What is it, Papa? Papa.

Papa.

Papa. Papa. I'm excited for y'all. I'm proud of you. I'm so happy. Yeah.

Thank you.

Congratulations.

Thank you, Dad. Now I could— now I'm sorry. Now I could really say Dad with real confidence.

With your chest. Yes.

Thank you, Dad. Thank you. I'm going to be there for you.

This is beautiful. I'm so happy for you both. Stay with us, friends. We'll be right back with more. Thank you. Tell me about your dad.

So he wasn't there a lot, so there's not much that I can say. If you ask me what kind of events like he was there for, he wasn't, it'd be easier to throw a rock and tell you where he, when he was there.

Wow. Yeah. Okay, so what was your relationship like with your dad?

It was kind of hit or miss. It kind of depended on like where he was at in his life, whether he wanted to be there or not. It's always been rough. Like ever since I kind of started to see his flaws for myself then, 'cause my mom, she never said anything bad about him to me. She let me see it on my own.

Got it. What do you wanna say to him?

I just want him to hear me out and understand like why I'm upset and stop trying to come up with excuses for it.

Mm-hmm. And why are you upset?

Because he thinks he has like this right to be in my life when he wasn't there to begin with.

Here you go, love. What was the hardest part of growing up without him?

Just having to see all the other kids like have both parents around and having to explain that he wasn't there or why.

Yeah. Still nothing like sometimes when you have your biological father there.

Right, right.

And the pains that cause.

Yeah, that connection.

You said your dad, you told my producers that your dad is full of empty promises.

Indeed.

What do you mean by that?

So all throughout my childhood, he never really had like a good stable job, right? So then when he did or he had like money coming in or he thought he had money coming in, then he would say, oh, we're gonna live like this, we can go here, I can get you this and all these promises. 22 years later, there's still nothing. Like, I don't know, he just has all these ideas and he just doesn't execute any of them.

Yeah. How's that affected you today?

I forgive people too easy. I allowed them back in too easy. And I think that stems from my relationship with my father, 'cause I always did that. I always wanted him around, but he just kept disappointing me. Said that I would have him, I would push him away again.

He destroyed your ability to set clear boundaries.

I didn't think about it like that, man.

That is, he destroyed your ability to set clear boundaries and that's still haunting you today and I'm sorry for that. I really am.

Thank you, I appreciate it.

And you have a brother that you've never met.

Yes.

Tell me about that.

So when my dad was 14, he had a child with this woman in New York And then when he was 15, his mom took him all the way to the other side of the US to Washington. My dad's entire family tried to convince him that my brother was not his 'cause he's too white. But like you look at me, I'm very white as well. So he wasn't there all through my brother's childhood as far as I know 'cause he was uncertain if he was the father.

Got it. Your brother is here today. Are you going to meet him for the first time?

Yes.

Are you excited about that?

Yeah, I'm a little nervous. I'm not sure how it's gonna go.

So right now, before I bring out your brother, I actually do wanna meet your father, Donnell. So let's bring out Donnell. Nice to meet you. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I like your shoes, by the way. I appreciate that. Let me give you a hug, man. I like your shoes. I'm a shoe freak. If we were the same size, I'd give 'em to you. I try to pass it to her. She—

I got an Air Max thing going.

No, listen, I appreciate the family fun stories, but Donnell, I really gotta understand, why has it been 5 years since you've seen your daughter? So don't let it all fall on my shoulders, dear daughter of mine. You decided that I was not the right person such a good person at a young age. And then when I did try to come, I did try to be there, I did go to your house, I did these things, but there was no TJ. Where'd you go? What happened? Well, you do understand why. She just said, yeah, you said you were gonna do stuff, you promised, and then you didn't show up. I absolutely understand. I understand that. So what was your relationship with Ta'Lei from your experience? Every time that I did anything with her or for her or had anything to do with her, I always tried to reach out and I tried to reach out to her mom. It's okay, hey, what? I wanna take her shopping to get her things. I wanna know her shoe size. I wanna know her pant size. What is she like? And all of these things and no, no TJ, no answers, no, I'm like, hold on, wait a minute, how?

Don't you think that if you had like something stable going on or if you even had a house for me to go to that I wouldn't have come see you?

Okay, so let's get to that one then.

Okay, let's go.

I joined a laborer's union, I'm making good money. And I laid $500 on the table for your mom here and no action, no, okay, I see you trying, I see you wanna do something, I see none of that, none of that. I gotta tell you, it sounds like you're blaming your daughter and other people for you not being in their life. Whoa, okay, I can accept that you think that. But I promise you, and in reality, there are certain times when, hey, where's TJ? Oh, I don't know. Well, she's not, she's at her grandpa's. Okay, well, but all of these things. But this is not your only child. You have a son as well. Right.

And a daughter.

Right. And another daughter. And it sounds like maybe this is a pattern that you don't have a relationship with them either. Oh, wait a minute, no, no. No, no, no, no. Okay. My son is older than her by 7. In the beginning, I'm 15. I'm 15 all the way across the United States. How, how, how? So you were 15 when you had your son? Right. I can understand that. I'm not gonna fault you for your actions as a teenager who do not have the resources to be able to reach your son. Right. But now. Okay, so that is my excuse. That's my excuse. 2,800, I'll take that one. But I love my daughter with everything, Tallay J. I will die for you at any given moment. But you decided that I wasn't good enough.

I didn't say that.

You decided that I was a bad person and you rode that and you're riding that and you're riding it and you're riding it.

You know, I gave you ample opportunities to make up for all that.

All right, all right.

All you ever did my whole life was tell me, "I'm gonna give you this, I'm gonna get you this." I didn't, okay. 22 years later, 23 years.

Okay, 22, 22.

I have nothing from you.

You don't have nothing?

No.

How about that coat that I bought you and you had, I have a picture of it with you.

A coat, wow.

A coat, not just one coat.

A coat and all those shoes when I was 2.

And all the shoes.

That's so great.

And try to play it off like I didn't give you and buy you. I didn't know nothing else. Donnell, she's telling you that it's not about the material things. She's telling you it's about— I didn't— See, there you go. I didn't say that I don't accept it, so please don't put words in my mouth. I do accept my responsibility that I did this and I did that.

You're saying it's my fault, it's not my fault.

No, I didn't say that it was your fault. Yes, you did.

You straight up said it's my fault. When you— 'Cause I decided.

When you limit me from being— How is it my fault?

It's your fault because you didn't have anything stable for me to rely on.

All you had to do was make a call. Dad, I want you to come spend some time with me.

And then what's that gonna do for me? I couldn't even go see you if I wanted to because you didn't have nowhere to go or you were at so-and-so's house or wherever you were at doing whatever you wanted to do. For my whole childhood, you don't get to make excuses saying that I decided that. I was 8 years old and I seen it for myself.

All right. I'll accept that. Can you accept my apology? Can you do that?

We'll see.

We'll see.

We'll see.

Hold on, wait a minute, it's just me and you. No, we're talking.

I just, I'm apologizing to you right now. We're still talking and I don't forgive you yet. What have you done as an apology? You said words. Show me actions, that's all you ever do. Okay, all right.

I'll give you that, I'll give you that. I'll give you that. But here I am, I had to get out of where I was at to be better than I was. 'cause I can see the pain that's going on here and I see what's happening, but I wanna bring your son into this as well. You've never met your brother, right?

No, I haven't.

And this is gonna be your first time meeting him face to face. He's awesome. Let's bring Darryl out. Back off, back off. All right, you'll have your moment, okay? I'm sorry. No, you don't have nothing to apologize for. I know you're hurting. Thank you. I see it. How you doing? Good to meet you. Nice to meet you, Karamo. Yes, thanks for coming on the show. Take a seat. I just heard you say to your sister, "I know what you're going through. I feel you." How is it that you know what you're going through and y'all have never met? The thing is, is that I didn't, meet my dad in person until a little bit before she was born. I didn't know about her until way later, until I was in high school. But I think it's very interesting that you do understand what she's going through because I remember you telling my producers that you only saw your father for the first time 3 years ago? That was when things started to— You saw him once?

When he was consistent.

Become more of a thing. So 3 years ago he started coming to New York and started coming to my mom's house and stuff. And the thing was he was spending more time with my mom and my other siblings that are my mom's kids than with me because I'm an adult and going and doing my thing. Hold on. I'm not here to blame you for it. Okay. I'm just wondering too. I have things that I'm working on. Just wanted to let it be known there is an inconsistent statement there. Darryl, what's it like, what's your relationship like with your father? I'd say the relationship is strained at best because I feel like sometimes I try to set a boundary or I say something and it doesn't get through. Sometimes your temper is too much. Sometimes when I'm trying to tell you something, it feels like you're not listening to what I'm saying. What I'm saying, you're deflecting. You know, you're trying to maintain a positive image of yourself when what you need to do is accept that you're, it's not about mistakes from the past, it's about going forward into the future with your behavior. [Speaker] Okay, so at that point, this is where I'm going to go ahead and exclaim to you the necessity that I felt to be in your life, but do you think that I could get your phone number at some point? I'm just curious. I need a phone number. Can I not do Facebook? I'm just curious, just curious. Do you wanna know why I don't talk to you on Facebook? Because of the times when I asked you not to just call me, to text me and verify that I could take the phone call. It's a simple boundary. And if you can't handle that simple boundary, then that means that we can't move on to things that are gonna be more difficult than that. Right, and that was 2 and something years ago. Hold on, wait a minute, wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Please, please, please wait. That was 2 and something years ago and I have refused to call you at any time where I think you might be working. You have called me at work before. I have messaged you. I wanna ask you a question. And this is for both of you. Do you respect your father and do you respect your father?

I just don't see what I should be respecting.

Got it. I can understand that. Do you respect your father? It depends on what you mean by respect. I respect him as a human being, but I don't feel like he's an authority figure to tell me anything in my life. Got it. So the thing is here, you are hearing your children say that they both feel like there's boundaries issues. They're feeling your children say that they both are accepting you back in their life, but they're also saying to you right now that they feel like you have a temper and you can't hear them. Right, I absolutely—

I actually, I don't know my dad well enough to know that he had a temper. Like, I honestly, if you're not including months when I was a baby, collectively I've probably spent 2, 3 months with this man.

Yeah, yeah. I accept my own choices.

And we're here to talk about that and we can go over it.

Okay, so would you like me to continue? If you can accept Would you like me to continue or let her interrupt you for once? Okay. I saw how you were cutting her off. Fine. That's fine. What I know is that you all as a family, you two have never met. And I'm gonna tell you something. There's something very special about you two meeting right now because you finally have somebody who understands what you're feeling. And I want you two to cultivate this relationship and bond and be stronger because in that is going to be healing for you both. But I will tell you, Donnell, I understand that you did some things in your past that you're acknowledging, but what your children are saying to you right now is that they need to set new boundaries and they need to set new things so that they can even have a relationship with you. The thing of the matter is that your children don't respect you right now and that respect has to start to be earned. And the thing is, is that every time you talk about, Well, what I did, and I tried to do this, it's unfortunately falling on deaf ears because they're hurt. Your children are hurt, and as parents, it's our job to not say, well, I did do this, I did do that. It's to just acknowledge and say, I hurt you. What can I do to build the bond? And it might take 10 years, it might take 20, but you can't rush their healing. I appreciate that. Because you want it to be on your time. I appreciate that. What?

You feel that?

I said I apologize and want to build on that. How do you apologize and just still try to come up with excuses? There's no excuse. There's no excuse. The thing that I wanted to say is, like Talay said earlier, an apology means nothing without change to action. Okay, so I'm gonna change right here on the stage. No, no, no. So what I said, so what it is, it's about this. Let's get to the stuff. What's the start line before we look at the finish line? The start line for you right now is your children are telling you that they need time and they need new boundaries set. I'm the one that called the show, so how am I not understanding that there has to be some sort of— I'm not calling, see this, your son said it and I see it. I don't think you're a bad guy. I think you're a defensive guy. I think you're constantly being defensive because you don't want to acknowledge the hurt that your kids feel. No, I don't think that's— Your kids have both said that they felt hurt. They felt abandonment, they felt these things. And I know you say it, but they're both telling you that they need more action. I'm down to do whatever so that we can build that. I heard that as well. But what they're telling you is that they need more time. But until they get that time, so this is where you gotta go. You two have to support each other. You two be there for each other and start to talk about the things you need, the boundaries you need, and work that out. And for you, Darnell, I believe your children do want you in their lives. You just gotta respect their time and their boundaries and you'll get there. Listen everyone, I wanna thank Darnell, Darryl, and Ta'Leigh for being with us. We just realized all of this today. When it comes to respect and families, it can be a tricky thing to navigate. So I encourage you to learn from my guests today that if you're feeling disrespected, remember to communicate clearly by recognizing if actions or emotions are at play. And I promise you, if you do that, you'll be taking the first steps in hearing each other and helping heal the relationship. So I wanna know from your perspective, why do you think Rene hasn't seen his daughters in 7 years?

'Cause he's a piece of shit.

Okay, so well I guess that leads me to what happened in y'all relationship.

Yeah, exactly.

Mm-hmm, so what happened in y'all relationship? How was it?

Everything but the right thing. He's a serial cheater and I actually divorced him.

Okay.

He kept cheating, just, kept cheating and making up excuses. We did therapy, I prayed, I took him to church and his woman was in church.

Oh, wow.

He was messing with a woman in church. Like, he's a piece of work. So I can't respect what he has from here on out.

So you said you feel like you picked the wrong man to be the father of your child.

I definitely did.

Why do you feel that?

I feel because he just, he wasn't giving what he said. This does a lot of talking, but I don't see the actions. And I feel like he's just, He's a whore.

How involved are you in his relationship with his kids?

How involved am I?

Yeah.

I helped him try to be a dad. Meaning even after we separated, I went to go pick him up, like take him from work. I would go get the kids so they would have time together and drop 'em off at his other female's house. Like I was that parent. While they played in the park, I was sitting in the car on my phone reading, doing whatever I needed to do while they built time together.

Time.

Like that's the mom I am. I'm gonna help you be the dad I need you to be because you obviously can't do it yourself.

So how did you feel as their mother watching their relationship with their father deteriorate?

That's why we here. Because when my kids hurt, I hurt. I'm mama bear. I'm coming for you behind my kids. And when they got on Facebook and da da da da da da, the wife is saying stuff to her and baby, stay out of it. This was before you. Learn your place.

You told my producers that you think that Do you think that his wife, like you just said, his new wife has—

She don't know half of it.

But do you think that she's causing some of these problems?

I'm not gonna say she's causing the problem, but when you insert yourself to say stuff like you feel like I'm the problem, baby, you don't know the half of what you got. You don't. Like, he's a serial, he don't like to work. He works for like 6 months and quits or something, oh my back, oh my neck, oh, it's always something. I got 3 jobs, I get 2 jobs, I'm constantly working. I don't stop. So why you don't stop? You not taking care of none of your kids.

Well, Renee's wife, Aishana, is also here in the audience, and I wanna talk to her a little bit later in the show about what she feels. But I just have to ask this because I heard you talk a lot about what he did to you and how he treated you. Is there any resentment or jealousy towards Renee and his new wife and his new family?

New family, that's the issue right there. How can you not even take care of the one you had? He lies, and I don't know what he tells her, but baby, it ain't the truth. 'Cause I got the messages where he even said he wish he had his family back.

Do you get along with his new wife?

I don't know nothing about her. I really don't. She has nothing to say to my kids. She's constantly inserting herself with my kids and think it's her. It's not you. I'm not jealous of you. I don't care about you. If I wanted Renee, I could've had Renee and kept Renee and kept the cheating going. So that's the fact about it.

Do you talk about Rene in front of your daughters the way you talked about him to me?

So this is the thing. No, baby, my kids made their own choice. They see Rene. They see him for what he is now, and that's what he can't stand, 'cause he's a narcissist. He's a liar. He was supposed to send a Christmas gift while he was in Boston. Baby, we still waiting on that. UPS, where is it at? We still waiting on these box of clothes.

Do you feel like he abandoned your family? He did.

You got these women laughing at me 'cause you over here chilling with them. Like, he had a woman in my bed. And all the kids was in the house. All the kids was in the house. My nieces, my nephews, his daughter, like everybody was in the house and you had a whole woman in my bed. We were high and we fell asleep. Get the hell out of here with that. And then I stopped smoking weed. So that separated us too. Because when I stopped smoking, we didn't have that bonding. And then, you know, he would go elsewhere to smoke because I wasn't giving him what he wanted. 'cause he needed. Oh, but now he got a smoking buddy. That's why he love his new wife. They smoke it up.

Okay, understand. So why haven't you seen your daughters in person since 2016? Financially, I pay child support that's directly taken outta my check. I live in a state where the cost of living is way higher than the state that put the case on me. I have no savings to afford to make it. Well, can you explain your child support? Child support payments? Massachusetts would give me $600 a week on unemployment. I would see $125 of that money to survive, to consider my rent and all other bills. $125 was nothing.

Why are you on child support?

You tell me, because I was locked up in prison when you put me on child support for these two kids.

You lied.

You told my producers that you feel like Mo's the reason that you have a hard time spending time with your daughters. What do you mean by that? I've contacted several years. The summer's coming up, can I get my kids from the summer? Spring break, oh, I'll see. I mean, when me and my wife first got together, the conversation from her was, oh, I don't trust my kids around no female that I don't know. Not a problem, I'll put y'all on the phone. They had conversation, everything was okay and said yes until I got on the phone.

I let my kids go stay there with him and they came back smelling like smoke.

Before me and my current wife got together, I was having an issue living in the same state seeing my children. Renee hasn't seen his two daughters since he and Mo divorced 7 years ago and I wanna talk to them now and get their point of view on this. So everyone please welcome Alon and Sinai to the show. Hi.

Mm-mm, don't do that, baby. It's okay. It's all right, Stink.

Thank you for being here. What's bringing you to tears? It's been so long. This is your first time seeing your dad? This is your first time seeing your father? You wanna say hi to him? Missed you.

I have one parent and that's it. There's nothing else. No one else I can like turn to. And I have like no father figure, so it's just empty. And that's what I'm saying about this whole thing is that he doesn't get, is that he's trying to say I try to keep him, I'm that part of the world.

I truly understand how my kids feel and I understand all of that. You know that, but I don't care. When I was a kid, Kids got to see both parents, whether they live together or not. And that is my only thing. We have our issues, we don't live together.

We made that agreement, Renee.

Why can't I still see my kids regardless of where I lay my head?

We made that agreement. That should not matter when I want to be a part of their life. Why are we not together, Renee? Why are we not together?

What's it have to do with them?

Understand why, because you made a promise you wanted to be in these kids' lives.

We are not together because I cheated, you cheated. So what? The relationship now is about them.

So what I'm saying is that you wanted to be a parent, right? So when I gave you the opportunity—

You moved on with a relationship, so the kids are allowed to be a part of that. I moved on with a wife, my wife is a part of my life, so being a part of me is being a part of my life.

That's not what it's about. The whole point is you could be there for them. You stayed in Colombia, you said you have not been in their lives for 2 years.

And at one point in time in all this time, of child support money you got, have you said, "Hey, you can't financially afford it, I'll meet you halfway"? Too much for you, right? They're still out there, arguing.

Did you make me talk to her? You told my wife no. I didn't even talk to her.

Oh yes you did.

Where's she at? Where's she at?

Please stand up and explain to the world.

First of all, you went through the whole spill of what he did to you. You told me I wasn't gonna be the last person he was with, and this was in 2015. It's 2023, we've been married for 2 years. 'cause he ain't stepped out on me not once. Everybody clap for that. Okay, I don't need nobody. I don't need nothing.

I made mistakes with you, I'm sorry, but I'm still trying to be a part of my kids' life every day.

You're just gonna get resolved with them arguing.

What do you want?

I want to sit down with him and let him know why, why, what's going on with me. Like, I want to speak my heart. Like, with them yelling, I cannot like, It's just—

Yeah.

It's too much.

Is it often like that, how they communicate with each other? And even though y'all might not directly be in between it, y'all are always in between them, right?

It is.

Yeah. 'Cause your parents talked about a hard moment for you with an ex. And it sounded like even in that hardest moment, instead of focusing on you, they were still arguing with each other. Is that what happened?

Yes.

What's it been like for y'all? Hard. In what ways?

Because like my sister was saying, we don't have a dad. We don't have no father figure. That's why I feel like I went through the domestic violence relationship because I'm looking for love in the wrong places.

Yeah, yeah.

And I don't want that to keep happening or I don't want that to happen to my sister because of the actions that he did.

Can I tell you something? You have a right to blame him. When a parent doesn't step up to do what they need to do, you have a right to say, "This was your job and you didn't do the job." But I will also tell you that I see a strength in the two of you as women that I'm very proud of. That choice to get up and walk off that stage was a choice where you put yourself first. You hear me? Yes. And I still hear them arguing back there.

No, you're not gonna make up no lies on him. I specifically said— We came here to talk and I feel like it's just arguing.

You allowed her to stay where a man was physically abusing her. You wouldn't send her to her father just for a break.

That That lets us know that you're a piece of shit. Because she was sneaking behind my back. That's why I asked you to step in and help me.

We ain't gotta wait. We ain't gotta do none of that. She right. Who do you want to talk to?

My dad.

And what do you want him to know?

I want him to know that he has hurt me like—

Yeah, and he needs to acknowledge that and make amends for that moment because you deserve to have your father make you the priority. You deserve to have your father make you the priority. You both deserve apology from both of them, okay? So I want y'all to wait in the green room and I'm gonna go out there and I'm gonna try to figure this out, okay? Two things. First, I can see the breakdown in communication when it comes to you and your daughter and it's up to you to be better in that communication. She has her pain, she has her experiences and as a little girl, she needs your help to heal that. But you can't match her. And secondly, it's unfortunate right now, but brother, I gotta tell you, you're wrong for your train of thought. And it's just the truth. I get it, you're in circumstances where you need support. But the thing is, is that the support, you gotta figure that out. You are stuck in a narrative of like, I needed somebody else. You need to figure it out. There's other choices you can make. And I'm just telling you, there is. I hear you saying it, I'm listening. Let me tell you something. I've been on a Greyhound bus before. I have been in Ubers before. I have done everything else. So you don't just, listen, a Greyhound ticket is $100-something. You could have found that. You could have found that. I know your ex-wife would've, I mean, your new wife would've given it to you. She know I would've did it for myself. Oh, believe me, it may look like I ain't did nothing in the last 8 years. I've been homeless in a shelter, homeless to make sure their child support was paid or the things that they've called and said, hey dad, I need these shoes, that, and I've done it despite of whether I could even put a spoon or something to eat in my mouth. That was your choice to have more children, not theirs. You're right, it was. I'm not saying it was their fault. Yes. But part of that statement is looking for empathy. I'm not looking for empathy on them about anything. What I don't understand in that situation is their mother knew my situation to then turn around and do the exact same thing. Same thing to me, hold my kids against me. But she didn't hold your kids against you. And she wouldn't let 'em come see me. She did. But it's not her. And I'm telling you this because your daughters are saying that they needed you to show up. So you keep thinking it's her that's not here. Now they need me to show up. But when they were still considered minors and kids. She just said when they were younger too, they needed it. All right, you're right.

Who doesn't need their dad?

You're right. I appreciate the strength that you have you two women had to come out here. I appreciate the vulnerability that you two had. And I'm sorry that you're in pain. I'm sorry. And as I told you backstage, and I want you to hear this too, Renee, because I said this to your daughters. I said, when they said it's just dad's fault, I said, no, it's not just dad, it's mom too. Because I understood that this take both of y'all. So young ladies, I'm sorry again, and I'm gonna figure a way to get you some more healing. If I offer you two young women therapy, just to have somebody to talk to about what's going on, would you be willing to take that?

I've already did it. I've already done that when he left. I'm not finna keep sitting there, no. It's either he wants to be in our life or he don't. I'm sitting here acting like this man is dead and he's obviously alive. I don't want that, no.

I'm talking about for yourself.

No, I don't.

I get it.

I'm good, like, it's just, I want him to get where we're coming from. These are your blood, your child, and you have not seen us in how long? You don't even know nothing about us, Dad. Every time you ask to get us something, what's y'all size? You should know this.

Alon, I am sorry. I have loved you since the day you were born.

What are you sorry for, Dad?

I'm sorry for leaving you in that situation. I'm sorry for that. When I moved away, I didn't pack you up, fight your mother, and put you in the car and take you with me. I die and hurt every day because I don't get to talk to you. Both of y'all. Okay, so we got an apology. That's what you wanted. You got your apology and that is a start. I know there's a lot of hurt right now and that there's a lot of healing that needs to happen, but at least you got the apology and now you can start that journey. All right, listen, I want to offer you therapy because I want you to have a little bit of therapy so that you can feel better about what's going on. Are you willing to accept that? Okay. Are you willing to accept the therapy? Good. I will get you support, okay? I know you're not ready right now, but at least you can get it and at least you got a little bit of something that you can use and take with you from here. All right? I'm so sorry for what y'all are going through. But I love you and at least you heard your father say I'm sorry. Welcome to the show, friends. Teon and his dad Raphael fell out 3 months ago when they got into a verbal altercation and Teon sprayed his dad in the face with mace. And then if that wasn't enough, Raphael kicked down Teon's apartment door. And I've got to find out what happened next. Please welcome Teon to the show. Hey, Teon.

How you doing?

Come on, shoot.

Oh, I tried, I tried.

Come on, shoot. You ain't playing. I know. How you doing? I'm good, how are you? I am good, but Teon, Teon, Teon, what I just read. So take me back to that night, what happened?

Basically, my dad stays outta town, so he came to my house for the holiday, for the weekend.

Yes. And I was at a party, don't get me wrong, I was at a party, it was Halloween. And he needed the key to get in the house.

But I told him when he came to get my key, be at home when I get home. My phone was off. I told him I ain't gonna be able to call you when I get home, so can you be home? He wasn't there. I got home at 3 o'clock in the morning.

Okay.

I call him, get next to my Wi-Fi, call him. He answered, oh, I'm on my way, da da da da da, I'm sorry. It still took him 45 minutes to get to my house. So I'm standing outside in the hallway drunk. I was lit, I ain't gonna lie.

I was lit. Okay, okay.

So I was ready to lay it down. It was time to lay it down.

3 o'clock in the morning, ain't nothing else to do.

So he get off the elevator when he finally arrives 45 minutes later, hee hee ha ha and kee kee and like it's a joke and I'm upset now 'cause I had to wait. So I took off on him like, why are you so late? Why are you not here on my key when I told you to be here? And he wasn't there. So we got going back and forth for whatever. I said, wait.

But why spray him in the face with mace?

He called me a. I'm gay. You call me gay. Don't call me no.

Got it. So you brought a video here to show me. Let me see the damage that happened that night.

You see like the door is all kicked open. The wood, the door is shut, but if you push it hard enough, you can still get in there. So I had to stay home all weekend with my door kicked in 'cause I had to wait till Monday morning for maintenance to come out and fix my door.

Who kicked this door open? My dad. Your dad kicked it? Yeah. Okay. And so how did things get that far outta control? I hear like it's Halloween. I understand how liquor played a piece and we'll figure that out. But you go from him being home and then all of a sudden you macing him, him calling you the F word, then y'all, him kicking down doors. Something within that is not tracking with me.

It was an argument. We was arguing in between time and basically I told him, since I have to wait to get in my house, you can just leave and you can just get outta my house.

I took his bag and his girlfriend's bag. Y'all can get out.

We had a few words and then he like, oh, you acting like a blah, blah, blah. He said it twice. So by the second time, I'm ready.

Yeah.

So I maced him. So I pushed him out. He was on like the little threshold. So I pushed him out, shut my door. When I shut my door, he kicked it. So like when he kicked it, like I tried to like stop it almost so it didn't really like fall all the way down, but it still was kicked in.

So that's a lot of strong homophobic language. I wanna understand what was your relationship like before? Did he always exhibit homophobic behavior?

When I first came out, He probably was upset or whatnot, so we didn't talk for a little while, but he came around. And my dad, he turned out to be my best friend. I can call him and say anything. Dad, my boyfriend just cheated on me.

Yeah.

And I can talk to him about stuff like that. But then it was just like, he lived with me at a point in time, lived on my couch, had a whole mattress in my living room at my apartment that he kicked my door in. So it was just like—

So y'all were close?

Yeah, that was my best friend.

So y'all were really best friends?

Outta all my dad's kids, I'm the only one that talked to my dad.

It hurts my heart to know that he didn't exhibit homophobic behavior before.

Right.

That y'all were close and that came out. So what's your relationship like right now?

We haven't communicated since then.

I blocked him. I haven't talked to him.

He doesn't have a really, he really didn't have a number for me to call anyway. We communicated on Facebook or whatnot, but I blocked him. I haven't talked to him and I'm hurt. Yeah. I want to talk to my dad.

I want to be, have a good relationship back with my dad again.

But it's just, do you still feel that way?

Do you still wanna, you gonna get drunk and call me that again? Listen, well, Teon hasn't spoken with his dad Raphael since the day they fell out after he sprayed his father with mace in the face. And I wanna hear what Raphael has to say about his side of the story. So everyone please welcome Raphael to the show. Hey Raphael, nice to meet you, sir. How you doing, Karamo? I'm good. I'm good too. Welcome to the show. There's a lot of tension between you and Teon. Not really. Not on your point of view? He created it all. Okay. How did I create it? That night he was drunk, Halloween party. You wasn't drunk? The Halloween party. You weren't drunk though?

You wanna talk or you want me to talk?

Go ahead, go ahead. When I got there, I was in the parking lot. He called me, "Where you at? I need my key." I got up there, soon as I got to the top of the steps, he disrespects me. You got up like it was hunky-dory.

Like I just went out there waiting for 45 minutes for you to come let me in my house.

If you was downstairs in the parking lot, it don't take you 40 minutes to come upstairs. He stays in a high-rise, 13 stories. Take 5 minutes to get upstairs.

We were in the apartment complex parking lot.

We rode up the steps, the elevator, got to his apartment.

It don't take 45 minutes to come upstairs.

When I got there, he said, "You ain't gonna be doing this shit." This, that, and cussed me all the way out.

I don't know from where.

And I said, "I'm your dad, you're not gonna talk to me like that." Boy, come on now. When you came out, who threw you a party?

It don't matter.

Me.

When I came out, we were not just closest. It took you a while to come around, Dad. It took you a while.

Tiana, you talked to me in the car.

You sat there and said, "I'm coming out." And I said, "I don't care." It took you a while to come around.

Now you're lying. No, I'm not.

I accepted you from day one. No, you did not. I never had a problem with it. No, you didn't.

When you sat and talked to me that day.

When you came around, we was close.

What did me and TT and everybody say?

Everybody said we've been through it.

It don't matter.

It's different if you've been through it and then when somebody come out and say it. And I accept it. Like, what do you mean? And I accept you.

I love you regardless. So, Rafael, do you feel like Tionne is the reason that there's a problem in your relationship? He is a spoiled kid.

I'm the only kid on my mom's side.

He's the only kid on his mom's side. He's spoiled. Now he's grown and we're not doing nothing for him no more. Now nobody likes him, loves him.

That's it.

You grown now. Well, Tion feels like it's your fault for what happened that evening. Okay, so what was my fault?

You took forever to come to my house.

So that mean you maced your dad 'cause he took 20 minutes?

Boy, I maced you 'cause you called me a bitch.

Anybody out here disrespect me?

You called me on my name, you disrespected me. That's a derogatory word.

Who does that?

You don't say nothing like that to me.

And I didn't disrespect you until you maced me.

Okay.

Period. So why was it important for you to bring your father here?

Because I just feel like It need to be reconciled. It's not, it's not, my feelings is still hurt, to be honest.

I don't care about 'em right now 'cause you maced me. There's a lot of pain that's going on here. And the pain has started from you, from when you were younger and were rejected. It's been a long while.

My pain, my pain.

Hold on, I want you to, I want you to think. He's never been rejected. No, no, never been. I didn't say for you, hold on, hold on. Oh, okay, okay. I was about to say he's never been rejected. Karamo, let me get to this. Your experience and his experience are always gonna be different. And for him, his experience gets to be his truth. It doesn't mean that it's your truth, but we have to acknowledge when someone else and how they feel in their truth. I understand that, but I had to live with him since he was this big. I had to defend it.

I didn't say it was this big.

I've been defending this boy his whole life. I understand, but even though you might tell him to be in his corner. I know my son's truth. I had to deal with that. I had to deal with my friends talking about some, "Why your son over there dancing and playing with the girl?" I had to deal with that. I had to cuss people out. I understand. I had to dang near fight my friends.

I understand.

Taking up for my son that I love. I understand. Truly. What I'm acknowledging and talking about right now is his truth. Let's hear his. That's what it is. Okay. So when you were younger, you said that people rejected you. Not necessarily people rejected me, I never even, I don't feel like I ever felt like I was rejected. What happened with your family when you came out? When I came out, my mom put me out. I didn't have nowhere to go. That's called rejection.

I was living with Latia, sleeping on her floor until 2018 when I got my own place and I didn't look back since and I don't.

So what did other family members do? Did anybody else other than Latia reach out to you?

I mean, a couple did here and there, but—

But no one else did? No. So you felt rejected? Yeah, basically.

Almost a little bit.

Yeah. But I don't feel like I really don't care for her.

My attitude, I have a I don't care attitude.

So I don't care if you don't care. But let me tell you something. That attitude and that anger—

It's gonna hurt me in the long run, I know.

Comes from that place of being rejected. So when people say I don't care, it's because at the end of the day— I do care, but it's just— You do care. So then sit in that vulnerability right there. Stay in that vulnerability. It's hard. I know it is. So that's why even though y'all have had a great relationship him saying the F word, whether it was before you maced him or after, that's not my care right now. My care is that that retriggered those feelings of now the one person I thought in my corner is gonna reject me. Yeah, I don't tolerate disrespect.

I don't care.

I know you don't because that's the guard, that's the wall. That's why you said it's hard to be vulnerable because anytime you've been vulnerable, that leaves you open for hurt. Yeah. So can you acknowledge just before, I'm gonna get to what he did to you, I'm listening to you. So don't think that I'm over here, it's one-sided. I'm listening to you. I know you said you protected your son, you were trying to be there for you. But for people who have been hurt and rejected, when someone you trust and love says something, that is like, it makes you think, has that always been in there? Right. Has it always been something you wanted to say? And vice versa. No, we can't go vice versa yet. Just stick with me, please. Stick with me. I promise you. If you disrespect your parents that much. I promise you. Did that mean you never respected me from the start? Sir, sir, sir, I promise you I'm gonna acknowledge what you went through and been through. I'm asking you, can you understand how the rejection he experienced in the moment as a child has made him feel when you said that word, that it remakes him think like, am I about to be rejected by the person I thought loved me? I don't care about that night 'cause he makes his father. First off, I don't care because I wouldn't have never said anything. I didn't say anything until he, Maced me in my eye. Why was that the word that you felt that you needed to use? Because he was so disrespectful and macing his parent for no reason. You want to hurt him. You hurt me for no reason. Okay, so lemme tell you something, 'cause as a father right now, my sons have done things to hurt me, but I have to acknowledge that even though they've hurt me— Do they have to respect you? My children? Yes. When I give them respect, yes. Respect is two, it goes two ways. So before that night, I never respected you? Two ways. Yes, I never said you didn't. So he has acknowledged that you were late. So why disrespect me that night because I'm 40 minutes late with a key? Raphael, Raphael, I'm gonna ask you something. Makes no sense. Raphael, I'm gonna ask you something. Do you want to salvage the relationship with your son? No, I'm good. He got about another year before he good with me. So you don't want to salvage the relationship with your son? I didn't mess up. You did mess up. You right, I was 10 minutes late. No, because you called your son out of his name. Yes, after he disrespected his father.

It don't matter if he was 5, 10, or 20 minutes late. I still shouldn't have to wait for my key to get in my own house.

I ain't never grew up where you could disrespect your parents and get away with it. Don't matter, it's my house. I don't have to wait for you to get my key.

I ain't never grew up where you could disrespect your parents. Well.

Your son called the show to repair your relationship. I've never been anywhere where you could disrespect your parents. Your son called the show to repair this relationship. I'm gonna ask you one more time.

He already said no, it's okay.

Good. He know me.

He already don't talk to none of his kids anyway, so that's why he really don't care.

You want me to call 'em right now?

'Cause you got their number now.

What hurts me about this is because you keep saying that we had the best relationship and all this, and I've seen this a lot on this show. There's something about this arrogance of men that we get into. I've seen this many times where we sit in front of our hurting children and all of a sudden it's like, I'm gonna show you. And say, you know what, I don't care either. It's not even a man, it's a— No, it is a man thing. It's a principle thing. No, it's not. You mess up in school, you mess up at work, there's consequences. You're not gonna disrespect your parent and come back the next day and be like, everything cool. If you trust the process and understand what I'm about, what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna see your side. I'm gonna help you to be acknowledged and feel seen. But it is a process that must happen. And you've deterred the process when you said, I don't care about repairing this relationship. I'm gonna ask you please one more time. He already said no, Karamo, it's okay. No, no, no, because I don't believe in that. I've seen this a million one times where I've had men on this show that after they get off this show, they call back and they saying, "I'm sorry, I wish I would listen." I don't want that to happen here. Please, I'm gonna ask you again. Do you want to repair the relationship with your son? Yeah, where he can become a respectful son like any other son. The answer, just stick with yes. That's it. No, it's no yes or no. No, it's no yes or no. Because I'm going into acknowledge You want to acknowledge it? Well, no, I don't.

Jesus.

I'm sitting here trying with him and I love him. You're not trying, sir. I love him. You're not trying. I've done everything. No, no, no, no, sir. No, no, no, no. Because this is where, again, and people who have come to this show many times have watched this show, this is where I get upset because you're not trying. You're not trying at all. And I've never been there for him.

He don't know me at all.

No one said that. You can play the victim somewhere else, but you can't play with someone who understands how to play language. I don't wanna be the victim. And no one has said that you did not be that person. I don't wanna be the victim. And I'm not playing the victim. You are playing the victim in this moment. What I asked you was if you wanted to repair the relationship with your son and you said no 4 times. Yeah. 5 now. Don't make me none.

I don't care if it's 5 times.

5 now. Thank you for being on my show. I appreciate it.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you so much. I'm gonna talk to your son. Okay. He don't care and I don't care. He don't care, I don't care. 'Cause I'm trying not to get emotional, but— No, you can be emotional here because I'm sorry. Because I watched what you experienced and I also understand why you are angry because this is deeper than this show.

Yeah, it is.

What do you need to heal in this moment? Honestly, he don't care, so I don't care. Can I encourage you to say this? Just for yourself. Don't say that no more, that I don't care. It's okay that you care. We all witnessed the hurt. We all witnessed it. And no one is gonna sit here and be like, you're wrong for wanting to get some respect. So you don't have to say I don't care. We know you care. We know you care.

'Cause I do.

And we care too. But I really don't.

And like, in the inside I care, but in the outside I don't.

Like I gotta— But that's the wall. That's the wall. That's the wall. That's the man that's learned how to protect the kid. That's what that is. And so you do care. And I'm sorry that your father wasn't able to step up in this moment. So y'all need to know that when I worked in social services, I worked primarily with LGBT youth between the ages of 12 and 21 years old. And I understand the damage, especially for an LGBT youth, when you have a parent that's rejecting you the rejection continues through your life and how it causes anger issues, trust issues, walls going up. And so for me professionally and just personally, I would never re-trigger someone for a television show. I'm sorry that we couldn't get to a resolution here. I really am. It's all right. I really am.

I thought we could. That's why I came to the show.

I know you're hurt. If you really wanna establish a relationship with your father, you gotta find a better way to be vulnerable with him other than through anger. You deserve to have your feelings acknowledged. You have been rejected from a child and you did not deserve that. The thing that I could only leave with you is I'm sorry.

I'm sorry too.

Your father has 16 other children.

Yes.

Tell me about that.

He's always been around in our life and all of our lives pretty much. And we are, we're not like this, but we do all know each other. We do talk to each other.

Okay. Had you ever heard about Saron before?

I never heard about Saron before. Not once? Not once.

Hmm. Did you ask your father about Saron?

I did ask my father about Saron. Mm-hmm. And it was just, for my dad, it was just like an automatic no.

Okay. He quickly said no.

Yeah, it was like a no.

Had he ever done that with you or any of your other siblings?

No, no.

So with all of your other siblings, it was like, this is my child?

Yes.

So how did you first find out that you may have another brother?

Well, one of my sisters had made a Facebook group chat and she had tagged all my dad's kids that's on social media right now. And she had put us in there. She's like, we have a new sibling that reached out and it's a possibility he might be our brother. And so, you know, everybody's like, We were all excited at first, like, "Oh wow, it's another one of us. It might be another brother or sister or whatever." Everything was going good. Like I said, we were all asking each other's name. Everybody was being nice and happy. And me and my sister had messaged each other separately in our own little personal message, and she was like mentioning about the DNA. And we had brought it to his attention in the group And then that's when from there it like went up. So Rome was just coming like, he was just like very aggressive and being weird a little bit.

What do you mean by aggressive and weird?

He was just like telling us how he loves us and how he knows we his brothers and sisters. He knows my dad is his dad and—

And at this point when he's saying I love you, and making this declaration, had y'all met yet?

No, we never met.

You've never met him at all?

I never met Sarom at all.

Oh wow. So you've never met him, but he was saying, I love you all, I'm with you all.

Yeah, he was telling all of us like, I love you sis, I love you bro. And it was like, whoa, like.

So today will be your first time meeting him?

Correct.

Do you think that Sarom's expectations are a little bit too high?

I do.

Why?

Just because he don't know us. The fact that he's just coming off like that and he doesn't know us, I just feel like he was, it's too much.

How long have you been searching for this, for your family? Well, for my dad. Or for this family? Well, for my dad, it was only my dad at first. I didn't know about no other siblings. Yeah. So all my life. All your life? All my life. Makes sense. Really. And how did you end up finding them? So I did a DNA test. Ancestry test at first, no hits. And then just one night I'm sitting on Ben Verified board just searching, and I paid a dollar for the little trial. I typed his name in, same search I've done for 10+ years. Something hit different this time. And when I seen that picture, I'm knowing, I'm already knowing. Yeah. Now my mom's telling me, that's your dad right there. So you knew his name your whole life from your mother? Now see, there's a whole nother part to this. So there was another guy that I thought was my dad at first. Never had a relationship with him though. His name was Mike too. But on my birth certificate, which I've always had, Mike was on there. I'm not putting two and two together. I'm not really knowing what, you know what I'm saying, at the time and stuff. Then when I was about 15, my mom told me that this Mike isn't my dad. This other Mike is my dad, but she ain't helping me try to find him. No connections, no nothing. Got it. All right, well listen everyone, it's time to meet the man Sarone believed to be his father. And this is gonna be the first time you all meet ever in person. All right, so everyone please welcome Michael to the show. How you doing, Seth? Nice to meet you. Pops, how you doing? Yeah, I'm good. So what was your reaction when Karamo first reached out to you? I don't know. My first reaction was, who was the mom? Because I mean, 37 years, man, that was a long time. And back then I had hair and shit. Yeah, yeah. So it's funny, when he walked out, your reaction was pretty excited and you were pretty like mellow in your reaction. What was that reaction? Is it because you're still unsure? That's what's messed up. I mean, you calling me dad, hell, I couldn't even pronounce your first name. Oh yeah, that's what we're doing. So we don't believe in that? I really don't, man, because when your mom— I didn't even know your mom was pregnant. Do you remember his mother? Yeah. Okay, so you remember her? Yeah. Okay. I didn't even know she was pregnant. She had something happen, she left, and when she came back, she had had them. But she was telling me that, well, yeah, like you said, she was gonna name you Michael Cerrone, whatever. And my kid's mom at the time told her if she did, she was gonna beat her ass. And she had got a hold to her before that. So, I mean, 'cause your mom was the type of person that would call, I had kids already, and she would call my house and tell 'em, you know what I'm saying, my girl, that she was pregnant. And these is Michael's kids and this and that. And it kept a lot of shit going on in my house. So let me, so, 'cause I'm trying to keep track of this. So it sounds at first when you came out here, like you said you didn't know her, you didn't remember her, it was 37 years ago. But now you're giving me details of your child's mother at the time got called. That's lying.

I'm talking to you.

Got called. You got called. Oh, oh, oh. Because you're saying, 'Cause now if you have a kid, if you have a child and this other woman's calling your child's mother and saying, look, I got another child here, threatening to say don't name her Michael Jr., which now makes sense of where that came from. You see the conflict in the story. Right, right. I can understand how you see it. Okay, but it is like when I was with her and what I said, what I meant was, is that when he first came out, I didn't know who it was. Got it. Okay, I didn't know who they was even talking about until finally he told me his mom. Now I remember her and I remember the situation. So you remember having sex with his mother? Oh yes. Okay. No, and the reason I asked that so bluntly is because like we're questioning the paternity here and if you remember having sex with the mother and then adding up with those other details, It could be possible. You were with her for how long? 2 years though. You were with her for how long? I was around your mom for 2 years. I'm not saying I know how that goes, but you were with her for, it's not about that, I know how that goes. I got 3 baby mamas, I know how that goes. I was around your mom for 2 years. But you were with her for 2 years though. Your mom was with me. No matter whether it's 5 other women on top of that.

Well, I never even heard of your mom, to be honest. And I pretty much know.

Your baby sister though.

I'm not baby though, I'm not baby baby, I'm more towards the middle.

Your baby sister.

This is me though. I heard of all my dad's baby moms. I know pretty much all their names. I never heard of your mom.

How did you meet Sarome's mother? I was with a friend, we was riding around. I had been drinking a little bit, ran into her and another friend. Now the plan was is that we was going to the motel or to the crib or whatever and we was gonna kick it and then we supposed to switch partners. So I mean, well, I mean, I'm in my 20s, man, and I apologize, man, but that's how the shit was. Pops, come on. We're not doing that. We're not gonna do that, Pops. I get it. I understand. I appreciate the comment. I understand your discomfort because this is your mother, but I think also what you're trying to share with us is that you're trying to give context of that we were young and we were— It's cool, but we understand they were together for 2 years. It was multiple women. We ain't got to do all that though. There's a lot of stuff that went down, you know what I'm saying? Like, she basically ran, told you, escaped, you know what I'm saying? Escaped, basically.

That's what your mom told you?

Escape from what? And I ain't saying I know what's true is true, but I know, I know how things kind of go and stuff, you know what I'm saying? Like, he had multiple— Come on, think about it. She went on about her business, she moved on, you know what I'm saying? She thought she was protecting me and doing me a favor by, you know what I'm saying? Wait, wait, hold up, bro. I mean, you know what I'm saying? She got you all confused. She got you all— I really didn't choose a side up until today. You let me know what it is today. Okay, okay, I'll let you know. Before then, couldn't nobody say nothing bad about my dad. I didn't care what you did. Not being there, being there, I didn't care. You're my dad, you feel me? Well, see, that really don't matter to me because I'm not your dad. Okay.

You know what I'm saying?

I've been trying to hold back and talk to you, try to have some kind of empathy, man, but you're not my kid. If I had my phone, I could show messages where he was saying different things though, so. Exactly, exactly, because I do have a heart. Hold on, I just heard a ping, so let's see what that is.

I am 100% certain that Michael is Siroam's father. I can't wait for the truth to finally come out. I am sick of this. It's time for Michael to step up and start treating Sir Rome like a son once and for all.

There's no way. I don't believe it. I don't believe it. And if I'm wrong, I apologize, but I do not believe it. And I'm positive, I'm 100% it's not. All right, well listen, we said it already. It's enough about feelings. It's about the facts and we have the DNA outcome right here that has the proof in it. You know, we are all about unlocking the truth on this show and in here is the DNA outcome that will tell you after 37 years if this man is your father or not. How do you feel about this moment? I'm gonna be 100 with you, I'm scared. Yeah. I'm scared. Yeah.

I'm scared for you.

Yeah. As I said earlier, I understand a lot of what you're doing and why you came on strong. And as she said, where you said, you know, like, I'm built different, I get it. The DNA results come fast, but love comes slower and you need to remember that. It takes time to build the relationships. It takes time to have people to trust you. And so no matter what these results are, I need you to remember that it's gonna take time for people to show you that love. I know you want it, you've been craving it for 10 years, 37 years, you've been craving the acceptance, someone to say, to know where you're from. I get it. But it's gonna take some time, okay? But at least you can start with the facts. Are you ready? This is yours to open, not mine. It's been a long time, long time coming. Okay. I just wanna say regardless, you know what I'm saying? I mean, I believe that, you know, you are my father. And if this test says that you are my father, I'm mad at you right now, but I love you though. But I love you though, regardless. So, you know, I'm hoping that we just go forward from here. You are not the father. I'm sorry, man. We done. Ceron, man.

Ceron. Ceron.

Told her don't let me on this sofa.

Ceron, Ceron, Ceron. Come here. Don't talk to me. Listen. No, no, no. I'm so sorry. 'Cause listen. I begged you, don't let me go on here. I know. And I want, from the bottom of my heart, I want it to go the other way. I feel so bad.

Why you bring me on the show, man, for real? Hey, take this off of me, for real. Take this off of me. Here, let me help you with your mic. I'm gonna help you out. I'm gonna help you out. I know you in a moment right now. Why the fuck did my mom do that to me? I begged her not to do this shit to me.

I begged her not to.

I know it's pain right now. Take me to my stuff, please.

Can I talk to you?

Jerome, I wish you the best, man. I'm sorry. I really do. I wish you the best.

Can I talk to you?

If you need any other help or guidance, all right, I'm gonna let you talk to him. Jerome.

Jerome. Jerome.

Hey, I just need to be alone, please.

Jerome, I'm so sorry.

Your daughter called us and asked that we do this DNA test here. I had misgivings about doing it because I knew what the results was gonna be. You knew the results. And he was, I mean, like I said, man, I didn't even know his name and he's, "Pops, I love you." How am I supposed to react to that? And y'all sitting up there talking about, you know what I'm saying, that I'm being mean as shit? No, I'm just being real. Yeah, you knew the story. I feel sorry for him because as you know, as somebody who has multiple children, you've been there for your children. Your child, your daughter said that you've been a great dad for all your other kids. Right. And it's sad because he's just searching for that love and he's searching for love. Yeah, it really is. Yeah. His heart is broken. He moved too quickly with his love and now it got shattered. And I think what happened is he was so wounded waiting and so just hoping that you could be it, that he put his guard down in this moment and it came back to bite him unfortunately. And I'm sorry for that. I'm so sorry for him. I'm sorry for the things the other kids had to go through. I'm sorry for you as well. I'm sorry for his mother, but she has answers now. She gotta make some answers. Do you believe that his mother knows who his father really is? She already knew. She already knew. Mm-hmm. Well, this is now something where he has to have a conversation with his mother and if he ever needs our support again, we'll be here for him. Um, thank you for being here so much. He did tell me something that he said that he's remembering that time that he believes that your mother does know. He, he didn't talk to him, man.

He don't—

she can never tell me another name again and I will ever believe her. Understand what I'm saying? Like, it's just a wrap, you know what I'm saying? She didn't care. I got my family at home, my kids. That's all I need. The world, I don't need the world. I need my house. That's what I need. I get that, but I don't want you to be off from the world because you had a lot of love. And I know this is hard to hear right now. I'm just giving you the one piece of advice that I can give you. I really appreciate it, man. Because you have so much love in life, man. So much. And I'm sorry that this could be a catalyst that could break that, but I want you to try to be stronger than that break. And if you need any support, anything you need, I'm here for you. Seriously. I appreciate it. Yeah, it's all right, man. Look, thank you. Yeah, good luck with everything, all right? Mm-hmm.