7 Times Karamo Was Left Speechless! | Karamo Reacts | KARAMO

Laila has a natural and beautiful look, and I'm really into that.

Karamo is suave. He's handsome.

Laila is smart. Y'all can't tell me— I swore that I was Morris Chestnut. Them eyes stayed— or Tank. That's who I thought I was. I was Tank. Them eyes stayed closed. Somebody put a side-by-side of me on this show next to Tank and see if y'all tell me them smolders weren't exactly the same at that time. So I was trying something new with these turtlenecks. And so I'm never gonna wear them again because I don't like how stuffy I look in them. But I feel like turtlenecks could be cute. I'm gonna try to figure out how to do a turtleneck. So girl, tell me about this toxic relationship you are in.

So basically we met at the gym and I was like, he's so cute. Like, I just want to get to know him.

Yeah.

But we started going out and like he started showing signs of being super toxic. You know, like he punched the top of the car. He was mad and he punched like a cup of soda and exploded in the car.

That sounds more like abusive.

Yeah.

Now.

And like, I—

I remember her specifically because I thought immediately like, oh my gosh, she's in this toxic relationship. What is going on? She's so bubbly and sweet.

Wow, this guy really likes me and I—

And when I started hearing the details of this, of this relationship, I was like, girl, what is going on?

When we're good, we're really, really, really good and we get along.

Okay, y'all a cute couple. Y'all a cute couple. So what happens when you fight then?

He has called me a bitch before.

What?

Yeah, he's called me an idiot. He's like, you're a bitch. And honestly, most people see him and they're like, he's so composed.

Yeah.

He's so sweet.

Sometimes relationships, people will mask what they want you you see and you'll be in a whole relationship where people are being emotionally or physically abusive. And I haven't heard his side of the story. So I don't wanna judge yet. But how long have you two been together?

We've been together for over a year and we've broken up like 6 times.

So over a year.

Yeah.

Do you two live together right now? Okay, maybe I like the thing from the side profile. Maybe I like the turtleneck from the side profile. What are y'all feeling? What are y'all like? No? Do you like? 'Cause on the side profile I'm like, okay, but straight up I don't like the turtleneck. Let me get back to her toxic relationship. How many times did you say you've broken up?

5, 6 times.

What makes you go back?

I will be like, hey, like I wanna see you. Or like he'll be like, I wanna see you. We'll get back together, you know?

So you're saving yourself for marriage?

Yes.

Why was that a choice you wanted to make?

I grew up Christian and you know, it was taught in church. But for me it's more of like, honestly I have like abandonment issues 'cause my dad wasn't in my life. And to me I was like, okay, if I'm gonna be that intimate with a guy, like I wanna be married, I want him to stay in my life forever.

So— And I understand now the abandonment issues.

Yes.

But what are you expecting from a man you date?

Honestly, like I want him to treat me nice. Like I want him to say like, you're beautiful, I love you. Like I care about you. I want him to say how he feels 'cause like I didn't really get that from my dad, you know?

Mm-hmm.

Like I didn't get that from a father figure, so like, I want a man to really like care for me, you know? And he has said those things, but then other times he's really angry and then he just yells at me.

Yeah, I hear you.

And—

Here you go.

I didn't think I would cry this fast.

No, it's okay. It's so sad to see her picking herself apart just because she didn't have this relationship with her father. But that happens to a lot of people, you know, when you don't have a relationship in your life, with someone who's supposed to be there to take care of you, you start to try to seek it in other people. Especially if it's compounded with self-esteem issues, it gets rough and difficult. So I'm seeing why she's accepting this behavior.

I got out the car 'cause I didn't wanna fight in the car and he slams the door, drives off and leaves me there.

So are you worried that Jake is having sex with other women?

Sometimes, like I have fear because I'm waiting till marriage. He has told me that, "Oh, I wanna have sex." Yeah. But these were my boundaries, so, you know.

Yeah. Do you two engage in anything other than sex? Do you have other like—

Yeah, intimacy, yes.

Yes, okay, great. Okay, just, I'm wondering, check. All right, so listen, there's a lot going on here. I love your vulnerability and how much you've been open, but there is a lot of toxic behavior here from your own words and I'm hearing it as well. But this is just one side of the story. We need to hear the other side of the story.

Okay.

So everyone, I think it's time now to meet Jake, Rebecca's boyfriend. So let's join Jake to the show. Jake, come on out.

We were waiting for you.

Come on, take a seat. How you doing, man? Good to meet you. Good, how are you? Yes, good. So I want you to describe your relationship because we heard one side and now it's time to hear your side.

Right, well, You were out here saying a lot of things about what I do. I didn't hear a lot about the things that you do, the things that you do to set me off, the things that you really do that push me over the edge, like how you scream at me, how you chase after me. What is going on today? Yeah, but like all those times when, you know, I really wanna step back and get space and think about things and then you just wanna confront it head on like that. You're not giving me that time I need to recuperate and think about what's going on.

Mm.

So Jake, you describe your relationship as intensely toxic.

Right.

Wow. That's a lot for you to say, my relationship is intensely toxic and still stay in it. Why do you think it's intensely toxic?

Really just the frequency of the fights. You know, like we've, Rebecca and I have been together for like on and off for a year, like a year and a half. And I can't even count the number of fights we've been in.

We do fight a lot.

And I just don't think it's healthy.

Well, what are you fighting about exactly? Because I still want clarity.

I'll be trying to get away from her. She wants to, you know, she'll be her over something, upset over something. And I'll say like, I need to take a step back from this. But she wants to do it like right then and there.

So you really feel like Rebecca doesn't give you space?

I feel like sometimes I say I need space and she kind of disregards it.

You live in your car, right?

Yeah.

What is hindering you from being able to find an apartment?

Right now I just don't want to. The rents are super high and I just wanna save money.

I actually remember talking to Jake backstage after this and just thinking like, I feel so sorry for you. I just wish I had more time with him just to talk about his issues. He's just a really sweet, sweet guy. Yes, they both have been abusive to each other and yes, there was things that just were toxic, but as individuals and apart, there was a lot of healing that they both needed.

Okay, so first of all, I don't understand why you'd let any man call you out your name. 'Cause I know if I was in a relationship and a man called me a bitch, that would be the end of it, period.

So why do you accept him calling you outta your name?

I don't like it. Like I told him, like, if you call me that one more time, I'm gonna break up with you. And the thing is, the love comes back.

Why do you think that it's okay to be verbally abusive?

For me, I heard a lot of toxic language growing up and it kind of just slips out. I feel like I'm pushed into a corner and I have to like, you know, it just comes out.

Do you know it's wrong?

I do know it's wrong.

Okay then, so it's not that it's just learned behavior, it's a conscious decision.

It's almost like a subconscious thing because I heard so much of it.

I just asked you if you know it's wrong.

I do know it's wrong.

So it's not subconscious. Subconscious would mean I don't know if it's right or wrong and it's slipping out.

I know it's not acceptable.

Okay.

You seem like you're annoying the hell out of Jake.

So why are you mad when he throws you out of the car when he's clearly telling you that he needs his space?

Well, a lot of times when he does say get out, it's not out of a loving place to me because sometimes we're not done talking and I'm about to cry. Like I'm upset, right? A lot of times—

Well, why don't you just gimme a little bit of, Time.

Like, why don't you just get out?

I'm so emotional, I wanna cry so bad in that moment that when you say get out, it's like, maybe you should get outta that car and go for a walk.

But it's my car.

It's my car though.

I know, but it's like, you're not treating me like a human being, you're treating me like a robot. Like, you don't talk to like a girlfriend like that.

That's just how it starts off. But in all sincerity, he lives in his car. It's actually, he's asking you to leave his home. And so there's a blurred boundary here that has to be acknowledged because it's not like you're just driving and he's saying, get outta my car. It's like he's saying, this is the only space I have in this world. And so I'm asking you to leave my only space. Can you see that though?

No, I understand that. And like, I do totally understand that, but I, I think I'm getting to a point where I want him to express with words how he's feeling instead of just avoiding.

I'm gonna come back to the stage because I want to actually get into your unhealthy behaviors that I have noticed. So Jake, you're cursing and calling Rebecca names. Oh. You just acknowledged it. Curses and calls Rebecca names, has kicked Rebecca. You kicked Rebecca out of your car. You understand it's not just the car and the space, which I get before, but the act of actually trying to say, I'm shutting you out, I'm not gonna communicate with you, is what makes that unhealthy. So it's one thing to be able to say, these are the reasons that I need my space right now, but I don't think you're doing that. So the lack of communication makes this relationship really unhealthy and it keeps you in this spiral because neither of you are talking about what's really going on. And it's also the constant, constant arguments because you're not expressing what you're really feeling. I feel like today I've heard more about what you're feeling when you said to me the word overwhelmed. How often do you tell her that you're overwhelmed?

I do tell her that sometimes.

Mm-hmm.

I don't know if I always do it in the most conducive way to like having good communication, but I do try to communicate that.

You didn't learn how to communicate growing up, did you?

I don't think I learned good communication skills growing up.

Okay, yeah. Now Rebecca, let's take a look at your unhealthy behaviors that we're seeing. Text Jakes 30 times a day. When did the producers talk about it when they talked to you that you said you text a lot? Broke up with Jake 6 times a year.

Oh, he did that actually. I don't know.

Okay, so then let me switch it back. Went back 6 times a year. Oh, right, yeah. Because you also have a choice in this as well. Just like I said to Jake earlier, it's a conscious choice. You're making a conscious choice to go back to something where you know you're gonna be kicked out of a car, where you know you're gonna be called the B word, where you know you're gonna be cheated on. Be treated a certain way. You're making that conscious choice. We talked about it earlier. We understand it's coming from self-esteem issues and abandonment issues, but still you're making that choice to go back, which is very unhealthy. And you have those separation issues, which is why anytime he says he needs space, you start to freak out. Because space for you means something different than it means for him. Am I right?

I want him to say to me like, I need space right now, but I love you. Like I want him to assure me Because sometimes he has blocked me for 2 days.

Yeah.

And I'm thinking to myself, he doesn't wanna be with me.

All right, so this is what got me this entire thing. Both of y'all describing y'all relationship as toxic, but both of y'all wanna stay. That does not mean. What goes on in our minds that makes us say, we both know it's toxic, but let's stay. Of course we do understand self-esteem issues, past issues, but it's no good. This is not the relationship to do that with. You need time to reflect and to grow. You need all of that right now. You're in a space right now where there are so many unhealthy patterns that you learned in your past that you have to figure out how to be able to communicate. You have to be able to reflect with yourself of like why you're in the position you're in right now. Listen, as much as I wanna say like, oh, because rent is too much and because you know you've had a hard time, there's another reason why you're staying in your car. Is because you're unstable right now. And this instability means, is the first sign that you should not be in a relationship. With that instability, you need to find time to take time for you to get stable, get your feet planted. And listen, you're a young man. I believe that maybe in 4 years, 5 years, this could be the woman for you. This could be the woman that you wanna be with. But right now, I'm going to advise you and tell you that you do not need to be in a relationship. You need to be with yourself. You need to figure out your career. You need to figure out what your home life is gonna be. You need to figure out what, who are you as a man? You're speaking two different languages here. You want stability, you wanna be settled, but you're with a man who's still trying to figure out and trying to grow. And the reason you're staying with him is because you're in a space right now where you're scared to be alone. You're scared that his boundaries means that he doesn't want you. You're scared that him saying, "I need space," means that you're not worthy. You know what I mean? You make excuses for him because you've been making excuses for people who have abandoned you or abused you your entire life, right? Yeah. And so now you're holding onto anybody who you feel is gonna give you the unconditional love. But the thing, sister, is that you gotta start working on that unconditional love on yourself. Come here, let me do something with you. Come here, come here. I could see clearly that there was a lot going on. And so we had to figure out how can we start to help her to work on herself? So I was like, let's have a little moment backstage. Come on.

I feel like I have to keep trying, you know? I have to keep putting in effort.

Because you feel like if you don't put in an effort, people are gonna give up on you.

Yeah, it makes me feel like I'm not worth it, that I'm unlovable. And like, I don't know, Jake has said that before. He's like, he's told me that I'm annoying.

I have no idea how much when I watch these clips I look just like my daddy. Ugh, how does that happen overnight? You just start looking like your parents. A mess. But back to her. Do you think you're lovable?

Yeah.

You do?

Like a lot of people actually really enjoy my company and like a lot of people like me. Like sometimes I like just want like to find the right person thinking that that will like fulfill me.

You have to understand that you are loved. Said, "I want to find the right person so that they fulfill me." Let me tell y'all something. Stop looking for somebody else to fill your cup up. You gotta go find your own faucet and turn it on yourself and then fill your own cup. You can't expect people to pour from their cup to pour into yours in order for it to work.

I love that I'm really funny.

Say, Rebecca, I love that you're funny.

Rebecca, I love that you're funny. Rebecca, I love that you're beautiful. Rebecca, I love— I love that you have a really kind heart and that.

Now Rebecca, talk to your dad.

I love you, but I'm kind of pissed off that you weren't there for me.

You're not kind of pissed off.

I'm really pissed off.

I love the fact that right now she's having a moment to sort of connect with herself and understand why she's allowing this behavior to continue. It's based in self-esteem and her abandonment. Rebecca, repeat after me. Look at yourself.

Rebecca.

I deserve love.

I deserve love.

I'm just glad that she had this moment. It's a beautiful moment that we have to remind ourselves that we have to practice our self-esteem daily if we want to have the self-esteem. Self-esteem is something that has to be practiced. Same way you practice saying negative things about yourselves, the same way we have to practice saying positive things about ourselves every single day. When you brush your teeth, Say something positive about yourself. You do not deserve to chase people. You got it? Yes. I don't need to chase any man.

I don't need to chase any man.

These are the things that you have to say to yourself. You have to be specific about the things that you're saying to yourself. You don't deserve to have anybody call you out your name. What is your name?

Rebecca.

Say it.

My name is Rebecca.

Not bitch.

Not bitch.

Let me say something. I ain't gonna lie to y'all, we had a very special moment, but after this segment was done, when I went back there, I was like, "Not bitch!" The way she said it for me was a kiki, I don't know why. I'm glad that she said it, but she was like, "Not bitch!" I pray that Jake gets help because he deserves a lot of love and support and I really hope he got it. But I hope they're not together anymore 'cause that's just toxic. It's so funny because the thing that I remember about this moment is that I wanted to button that button so bad, but girl, I had just eaten and it was like, no ma'am, they were not buttoning. And I hated it. I felt so bloated. This is why I'm like this the entire time. We all get bloated sometimes. Hi, how are you doing? Can I give you a hug?

Yes, sir.

Nice to meet you. You as well. Thank you. So you said that your 16-year-old daughter— Y'all see it. I'm still grabbing it. Tell me what's going on.

She just feels like she's the parent in the situation at all times.

How many mothers can relate to feeling as if their child is out of control? That's the first thing I thought to myself. But for me, I always think to myself, there has to be something deeper, because kids don't act out just to act out. There's usually something that's happening that they can't process that says, well, this is how I'm going to get your attention, this is how I'm going to get you to love me, this I'm going to help get you to focus on me. Um, and so you're raising 2 teens 'cause you have a 16-year-old Anaya and then you also have Aaliyah that is 13?

Yes, sir.

Yeah. So how's that affecting you?

It's just, it's making me go into a far deep depression and I don't know how to overcome it. I don't know how to.

So when I'm sitting here, I look for keywords. That's why y'all see me taking notes. So when she said, I'm going through depression, I immediately started saying, and she said it's getting, when she said it's getting too hard for me to do it. That was a key note for me to realize, okay, something is deeper going here. Because when mom is saying, I'm feeling overwhelmed, you see me writing because that means, could there be something that's happening here while the kids are starting to act out? So you told my producers that you feel like your household isn't stable. What do you mean by that?

With me being, I'm not gonna blame it on nobody besides myself, me being in depression and not wanting to get outta bed, not trying to, Mom doesn't wanna get outta bed.

Hmm. So now it started to click for me already. If mom doesn't wanna get outta bed, there must be something else going on why the teen is acting out. The apartment that you got evicted because you were just feeling stressed. When did that start? A year ago, 2 years?

It started when my arm got broke. My wrist got broke. We had an altercation and I got shoved down some stairs. By a significant other and it broke my arm last year. I was in a cast for 6 months. I still baby it as we speak. It's just—

Within the first 3 minutes of talking to her, I knew exactly where this family healing needs to go. I knew immediately.

I'm 16 and my sister Leah is 13. I've been taking care of myself since 12 years old. I help my mom with financial needs. How my morning—

12-year-old Worried about finances, trying to go to work and school, trying to help their mother. That's a lot of pressure for any child to go through. And it starts to explain to me why a child could lash out.

And making sure that all the kids have their stuff done and make sure that they have everything ready.

This young daughter already immediately I'm realizing is having the responsibility of acting as if she's the mom when she's just a child.

You're just always outside.

I'm not always outside. And of course the youngest sister is gonna start rebelling because she's like, my big sister is at work trying to handle stuff, my mom is asleep all day. They just want their mom. Poor babies.

I'm with my mom just 'cause of the reason that she's just always at work or she's just doing something else. She could walk in the house and we'll already know like, don't mess with her.

I know as adults we feel stressed sometimes and we start to get to that place where it's like, when I walk in the house, I need everything to be how it needs to be. I can't deal with the BS that my kids are bringing to me. But at the end of the day, we can't let our exhaustion from being adults affect how we parent. And we have to start to check that because it's very easy to be like, listen, I don't have the capacity for this, but you have to find the capacity. And you have to make your kids not feel as if their problems are a burden because they get to have their issues. They get to be kids. They get to make little small mistakes without it being like, you come in the house and be like, I don't wanna hear it, I don't wanna do it, I don't wanna deal with it. Why is this not like that? One of my parents, I ain't gonna say which one, used to walk in the house all the time. The first thing they used to say before they said hello, how y'all doing, was, oh my gosh, look at the house. And it was like after a while, It just, it didn't make me want to make the house better. It just was like, well, I want you to say hi to me first, so I'm not gonna start rebelling. So we got to just remember those things as parents, that sometimes you just have to take a step back. And before you go into like discipline mode or aggravated mode, just ask your kids how they're doing and check it on them.

If you guys left the attitudes in bed and in your dreams, maybe I would have been motivated to get up and Ooh, mama said if, then maybe I'd be motivated.

Then maybe you'd be motivated? Poor baby. My producers told me you're back here crying. What's going on? So listen, this little girl is 13 years old. I had to go backstage to talk to her 'cause I could tell that she was having anxiety and feeling very nervous about coming out there. And so I just wanted to talk to her calmly about what she was experiencing, what she was going through. So did you hear what Aaliyah said back there?

Yes, I did.

She feels like you don't give her any attention because you give it to Aniah all the time.

But she hit it right on the nose too because she said she don't help around the house. It seems like if I give her the attention, it's gonna be negative attention because she don't wanna help do nothing around the house. She don't wanna listen. She wants to just do what Aaliyah wants to do.

Yeah.

So I do kind of exit her out and, okay, Aniah, we're gonna do this. We gotta get this done. We gotta get that done. We gotta get this. Leah, she's just gonna procrastinate and drag it along and make the job harder than what it actually is. So I kind of X her out and put my focus on Aniah. Like, I know Aniah's gonna help me. I know she's gonna get the job done. I know we're gonna come together as a team.

I want you to listen to the language you're using. I want you to listen to the language you're using.

Okay.

And I know you're exhausted and I know you're overwhelmed, just like many mothers are around this world, but you're saying things like, I'm going to X her out. Listen, this is so important. Language, language, language. The language we use hurts. It matters. And so when somebody says to you, like a mother saying, you know what, she's X'd out, think about how does that affect you? You gotta figure out how you're going to communicate so that it's healthy.

It's just hard to live when you don't listen. You know, I got a short temper. Frustrated a lot. It's like, if you're slowing me down, I'm gonna, I don't wanna say X you out 'cause you will never be X'd out of my life. I will always love you and support you and be there for you. But it's like, you don't make stuff easy for me around here.

Even in this speech right here, she giving more stuff like, if you slowing me down, your child's not slowing you down. She's the child. If you don't make stuff easier, come on. Mom, it is not her responsibility to make things easier. It is your responsibility to help guide her so she feels as if she can make the right choices. You feel sad a lot? Mm-hmm.

Not all the time, but sometimes, yeah.

Yeah. Are you struggling in school too?

Yes.

Yeah. Yeah, you said yeah.

We tried to get her tutor multiple times. Well, we didn't try to. My mom said that she was going to, but she just never dug deep into getting her tutor.

I wanna say something because you know how you just talked about being so sad and depressed, you stay in bed, you're just like, I can't deal. You know, kids mimic our behavior. And then she starts to mimic her mom's behavior, which is the most heartbreaking to me. What I would love is for you two ladies to go back, get a drink of water, relax. I think y'all have done a very great job. Listen, at 16 and 13, I don't know if I could do it. And I'm proud of y'all. Like, y'all did amazing. But I want y'all to take a drink of water. So I asked the kids to leave because it was like, now that I got the facts, it's time to have a one-on-one with mom. Because mom, at the end of the day, this is something that you have to fix. This is something you have to work on with yourself and then with the kids. There's no more calling your kids out of control. It's about mom is not in control. So the first thing is that they said they need your attention. And so I get it. You say, well, they put me in the attitude. But one of the big things you can do to give attention is you have to find some way, and I know it's hard, and I'm gonna try to give you some more tools outside of this, just to at least get up in the morning. You see that little girl there? Every morning you fight with her and every morning your daughter has to fight with her. That's, she's mimicking your behavior. I'm too sad, I give up on the world. Can you commit to at least saying, I'm gonna get up in the morning?

Yes, sir.

You can. Energy for my kids, yes.

If that's gonna be a big help and to see some type of positive results, I'll get up bright early cooking breakfast every morning.

Yes. I believe it, I believe it, I believe it. This is the second piece that I think we can commit to where you don't feel extra overwhelmed is that I gotta ask you, when you feel like they're not stepping up, for you not to react in a way that you've been reacting. Instead, react as like you're a kid. And I know that's hard. This is gonna be a big one.

That's the, you're asking for too much now.

No, I get it, I get it. But they're 16 and 13-year-old. Like when your daughter just said she has 3 jobs, I know you're not asking for money. I heard it. You said, I'm not asking for your money. I'm not doing anything. But that's still too hard for a 16-year-old girl to have to do.

It's because sometimes they think they're the president's daughter and they, they're used to a lifestyle that I used to be able to support.

And that's the way you break them out of that is first of all by not saying it's your fault.

Sometimes I spoiled them. My mom told me, like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Because listen, I could have already pinpointed this before you even went there. That's language somebody put in your head to tell you, you know what, Listen, you spoiling these kids. And now the repercussions, now you're like, oh, I did spoil them. No, no, no. Because that type of language is what's you, keeping that's keeping you depressed. That type of language is what keeps you feeling down on yourself. When people tell you, look what you did, and you start believing it, guess what happens? You start breaking yourself down even more. So you gotta remove that language.

Okay.

You were there for your mother and you provided for your kids. You gave. And now you don't have it to give. Yeah. It doesn't make you a bad mom and you shouldn't feel guilty for it. What it is is that that's life, ebb and flow. They gonna get it when they hit 21, 30, they gonna start understanding it. But right now they kids. So that's when you have to show up as a mom and say, "I'm gonna give you extra love." Not rebel because you're rebelling.

That's where you love them louder and you say, "I see you." But how am I gonna love them louder when I barely even love myself? I get it. Like, I hear you.

That's the bravest thing you ever said. Can I have a hug for that? No, you sit, I got you. Come on, let that out. It's all right. And this is where you say to your kids, listen, I know. I need you to tell your kids you love them louder. The more you can tell your kids that, the more you can support them is the more that you'll see behavior change. And of course there's always special situations, but at the end of the day, you can't force You can't fight negativity with children with more negativity. You have to support them with more love. The reason I asked you to get off stage is because right now mom's going through a hard moment. She's going through a real hard moment and that shouldn't be shouldered on y'all. But I'm gonna tell y'all this, as someone who's just met your mother, there's a strong side of your mom and a very amazing side.

Yeah.

That once she starts to make these commitments that I just talked to her about, y'all gonna see. Now one of the things is y'all know that financially y'all going through it. To it right now, right? Y'all know it.

Yeah.

And so there's two things that I heard, and I want to do this for you and for you and for you. I want to send you to the dentist. I'm going to make an appointment for you today. And for you, and for you, because I know how hard school can be, especially when you don't have the I'm gonna get you that tutor. This was a moment for me that now that I saw the breakthrough, I also understood mom needed some support. And I was like, mom can't leave here 'cause she's still gonna feel overwhelmed. So I was like, you know what? We have dental issues, we have tutoring issues, I can pay for that. And that was the support that mom needed just so she needed a little bit of help to feel as if maybe I can make it one more day. You gotta make some commitments too, okay? Your mother's saying she's gonna commit to waking up. You said you gonna commit to wake up with her. Now I know you going out because you want that attention. You don't feel like you're getting it at home. You feel like all the focus on your sister. When you feel like you're not getting attention, I need you to be the young woman I know you can be. And I need you to calmly say to your mom, I need you to love me louder right now. Because I think as young people, especially as young women, we don't know how to scream out that way. We start screaming out in other ways. This goes for you too. I need you to love me louder instead of going out in the streets, instead of being upset. And this is the same thing for y'all when y'all talking because it's easy for everybody to catch an attitude. And I already know there's full of attitude in this house. You be catching attitudes, you catch attitudes, you catch attitudes, right? But that attitude is actually just because y'all are hurting. People don't realize that. And then when you see sisters and mothers catching attitudes, because everybody's just hurt and they don't know how to say it, right? So instead of saying— instead of like having the attitude, just say, I need you to love me a little louder right now. This was a great family. I just wish them all the best. I love them so much. I mean, I still think about these young women and what they experienced and what they're going through, and I just think to myself, I just pray they're doing well because they really do deserve a great chance to have the life they want. And also the mom is getting the help she needs. You know, we took a big first step on my show, but you know, it's one of those things where it's like, I just keep praying for them and, you know, hopefully, you know, follow up with them one day. I was pregnant and I wasn't, and I'm not sure who the father was. Girl, this is a mess, girl. That is a mess. These girls are over here. What is this going on on this show, girl? This shit— I gotta just put a little powder on my face for this, girl. Let me get that T-zone. Me and my girlfriend Jordan have been together for 2 years. Is my girlfriend sleeping with my gay best friend? Jordan? Well, we're about to find out, 'cause my immediate thought was no, but— That says a lot about her personality.

Boyfriend?

We're about to find out. Tired of this guy, he got a funny smell to him.

G-Money is a jealous bum and he needs to mind his business.

So going into this, I immediately thought to myself, this man is just insecure. He's just feeling some ways because his girlfriend is close with another man who clearly is gay. So what do you have to worry about? You know what I mean? Like, I have experienced this before where I've had girlfriends whose husbands are like, Why you always gotta spend time with him? Why you always with him? It's 'cause we're talking about your ass. That's why we're spending time together. We're talking about you because she can't talk to anybody else about it. So that's what I thought this was gonna be here. But as this started to unravel, as you can see, woo! Like she's always, like she's bubbly, life of the party. And ever since I feel like she's been talking to him, she's gotten very reserved. Okay, I can't lie to y'all, I thought he was cute. Ever to? I did, I did, I did, I did. I saw the charm, I saw the mystique. It's toxic.

We're always arguing, little, you know, petty little things are being said.

But my producer told me you even got them a hotel room for them to do a little getaway. Is that true? No, I got us a hotel room. Oh, so you got her a hotel room so that she'd get away from him? Yeah. And then you just said now that you went with her?

I mean, of course.

You know, I'm gonna go see like what's going on, check out the suite.

I have to be there to physically check you in 'cause I work for a hotel.

Got it. So let me back up 'cause you said with other friendships, you've had issues where the men have been jealous of you.

Absolutely.

Why do you think that is? I mean, you're an attractive man, but like what else are you giving off that you— You know how it is when you know you good looking and Like my sexuality is A or B or C or D. See, that was the part that I did not know because at first I thought he identified just as gay, but then I find out you identify as fluid, pan, whatever. So he, that means he's open to everyone, which then started to change the narrative for me. He says something, I'll say something. I have a smart mouth, so I was over her house. See, this is the problem with labeling somebody wrong, 'cause you've now labeled him a gay man, and so the rest of us are like, "Oh, you're just acting crazy." But then when you find out he's not just gay, he actually identifies as, "He might want your girl." Then I'm like, "Oh, oh, okay." That's the difference between me and my homegirls. I don't want you. He might want you, so yeah, okay. Now I understand, G-Money, where the suspicion's coming from. Oh, he buying hotel rooms? Oh yeah, okay, okay. So you think he's into your girl? Man, I know he's into my girl, man. See, G-Money came out there and you kind of go back and be like, "Oh girl, she delusional. Like, cut it out." You know what I mean? You just are like, "You insecure about something." But then he starts saying like, then he starts saying this about him looking at her butt and I'm like, "Hold on, again, what?" Like when a girl walking home from me, I'm not looking at a butt, I'm looking at the outfit. I'm like, oh girl, you cute. I've never looked at a butt. I'm like, oh, you cute. Now he said he looking at her butt, and I'm like, like, what's wrong? Why you around mine so much? Like, why are you always around? Because your girl comes around me talking about you. Now that is true. Y'all should know this. All the straight dudes out there, you should just know, I know all your girlfriend's gay friends know everything about you and your relationship. You should just know that right now. I have not had a girlfriend who I don't know every detail about her man, from what he do for work, how much money he got in his bank account, to what he do sexually, to everything. Y'all should just know there's another man that got all y'all information out there, and he's normally gay. Y'all should just know that right now. So G-Money, you came here because you wanted me to unlock both your girlfriend Jordan and her best friend Kai's phones. So, so this is actually an unlock the phone. People forget that. G-Money, you wanna know if Kai and Jordan have been communicating with each other? I was ready to know too. You refused to unlock your phone, correct? Absolutely. I'm sure he did refuse 'cause I know we would've found something in that phone, okay? I know that phone would've been full of stuff, okay? My phone for you. But I also like the boundary he set. I'm not gonna unlock my phone for you. This is a relationship. This is a conversation you need to have with your girl. So I got it. Jordan's phone. G-Money, you want to know if Kai and Jordan have been communicating with each other. So my unlock the phone investigator also again couldn't unlock anything 'cause you refused to unlock your phone. Both refused to unlock their phone. Now we don't have— So why did you refuse to unlock your phone? You refused. Yes, I refused. She said yes, I refused.

No, I don't have nothing to hide.

But at the same time, if I'm not gonna let you go through my phone.

So interesting choice of words. I have nothing to hide. I'm still my own person.

I can say no.

I'm grown enough to say no.

Wow. I hope so.

I can say no.

She said, I have nothing to hide. But then there comes this confession. I would say, well, the lack of transparency here is gonna cause there to be issues. But in this case, because I'm tracking other things that could be unhealthy and I'm watching the body language, I'm watching things, I think that this is actually a pretty healthy boundary for you to say no to. So in this instance, I actually respect your no of unlocking the phone because the only hesitation he's having is with you and your friend, your best friend, and that's it. So I think in other ways there might be— Hold on, we're getting a ping alert. What's going on? Ping, okay, what's going on, G-Mini? I wanna know too. Let me tell y'all something, y'all see a ping? When y'all see a ping on the Karamo Show. All right, so let's go ahead and watch this ping.

That me and Kai had sex right around the time that me and G-Money got together.

And that kind of happened around the wedding that I told you I went to by myself. We decided to take that to the grave. Y'all see my face? I find out when y'all find out something. See, this is what y'all think on this show, that we know everything, whatever. I find out when y'all find out. Pregnant? And you're pregnant?

And I'm not sure who the father— if you don't know who it was, it could be G-Money or it could be Kai. I'm not sure.

I just got an abortion and just kept it pushing. She messy, she messy, she messy, she's messy, she messy. She said she got an abortion because she didn't know which one of y'all— wow, wow, wow. By the way, anytime somebody do something in my life now where people be wilding out or doing something that's messy, I'd be like, wow, wow, weirdo. Like, you're hella— are you in love with her? I'm not in love with my best Friend. Would you wanna be in a relationship with her? I don't actually like women like that. You like women enough that you just had a baby with her. We was intimate, real intimate. Have y'all been more intimate than more than that time? It's coming out now. You might as well say yeah. I would take that as a yes. How many times have y'all been intimate? Once, twice? 3 times, 4? It was really like twice. It was twice. It was twice. It was twice. It was twice. Yeah. Okay.

It was twice.

I can't excuse G-Money's behavior. We're gonna get to that because there's a lot of stuff that's going on. But at the end of the day, his concern was that you would be doing something he didn't know. But he didn't know. He didn't know that. I think that even makes it worse. He didn't know. So you were the trifling friend he was worried about. You was sleeping with his girl. He didn't have to worry 'cause it wasn't like that. But it happened. It happened. So after this show, I think that these two friends are, are gonna continue to be close because at the end of the day, they love each other, they've been intimate. I don't know, they don't want a relationship, but I think they're gonna be fine. I think they'll stay friends. I think G-Money needs to get outta this situation. And I think that anybody else that comes into this situation, I'm glad that they're gonna be able to have their eyes open and understand that there could be feelings between them. 'Cause there's so many things going on here. First of all, I'm glad that you got off your chest because it needed to come off. But this entire thing needs to be exposed because from what I'm tracking, it sounds like you're in a very unhealthy relationship with G-Money. And I'm not sure why you're staying for these 2 years. Can you express to me why you're staying? Because from what I'm hearing, from his own words, he's an entrepreneur, he's not financially stable, he's been verbally abusive, he's been physically abusive. There have been so many things that have shown that he's clearly not someone of value in your life. You even said you're not growing in a healthy way. So why keep staying with him? I think because of the love that he gives me and the way he makes me feel. Girl, this is a mess, girl. It is a mess. These girls are over here. What is this going on on this show, girl? This here, girl, I gotta just put a little powder on my face for this girl. Let me get that T-zone. Girl, these girls over here a mess. I do understand that. Are you ready to end this relationship? Yes. With G-Money? You have to.

I don't know.

You don't know how to end it, girl? You just ended it by confessing. G-Money ain't going back to you. I don't think G-Money with his pride and ego being hurt would ever go back. And I gotta be honest with y'all, when I went back to talk to G-Money, it was really sad. He was crying, he was heartbroken. And in this moment, he was validated for everything he said and he felt. But that was before, like he didn't, you know, like— No, I don't know. You not gonna let me. You're not gonna get me on your side with this. You're not gonna get me on your side with this. I mean, you two are consenting adults. His concern was, are you sleeping with my girl? And you did twice. I'm not. What I'm saying is his concern was correct there. The behavior is wrong.

Do you really wanna leave him though? That's what I wanna know.

Yeah, I'm tired of being a caged bird.

Good, good. 'Cause she's telling me she wants to leave him. And at the end of the day, even if G-Money did stay with you, with her, if he did stay with her, he's gonna only make your life a living hell from this point on. And so your friend is telling you she needs support now. She's tired of being a caged bird, her own words. So this is where it says I gotta show up for you. Yeah, like I got you.

You already know I got you. So I'm here.

Oh, let me in. Wouldn't it be a gag if we found out that Jordan and Kai were actually in a relationship? And that Jordan was pregnant at that time with Geez Money's baby before they had broken up. And that Kai was about to raise the baby. I don't know, I just created even more mess in my mind. But we just need an update. We gotta find out what's going on with them. I don't know much house talking and growing we did on this episode, but through the truths, he got information so that he could move on. But, um, whew, that was a lot. I don't like this outfit either. What combination was this? I was just too busy. She was cute. Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. You better walk. Listen, I love when an older woman wants to date a younger man. Love it. Well, no, I don't always love it. I ain't gonna lie to y'all. Like, when people are in a healthy space like they are, then I love it. When people can be healthy and communicate, then I love it. But I love them. They were cute.

And he takes me to the moon every day.

She says she goes to the moon every day.

He takes me to the moon. And I've been wanting to go to the moon.

What does that mean? Come on, Neil Armstrong.

All right, this is some real life. I've been wanting to go to the moon my whole life. And I finally found this man. I respect him. I look up to him. He leads me. But he's not good with his money.

When I was growing up in college, there was a place called the Moon that we used to go party at in Tallahassee. Shout out to Alhassan. How long have you been dating? 'Cause that's neither of those.

So we've been dating for 4 years.

4 years. Just wanna make sure.

Yeah, we've been dating for 4 years and that's the problem. So we're now getting serious.

Beautiful couple. Come on. That's my baby. You look about 29 too.

Okay.

Well, you know, and that's where we get it misconstrued at.

Yes.

Because, you know, I look younger, but I have, you know, a lot of experience. I've been there before where you ignore and make this fantasy of this man. So I don't want to do that with him. So basically he just gives money to everybody.

Everyone.

Everyone.

Do you see a long-term future with him?

I really do, because again, I respect him so much. For me to be a submissive woman, I have to respect you.

Of course.

I have to trust you. I have to feel safe. And he provides all that. That's been missing a lot, because I, you know, it feel like my feminine energy drops if I don't have the right leader, because then I feel like, well, I better do it because he ain't gonna do it right. I don't wanna be like that. When I'm with him, I'm like, I don't know nothing.

Ask him. I'm tired of knowing stuff.

And he allows me to do that. So I see the future, but me seeing the future and not paying attention to what will hold me back from saying I do, I will, let's do it, is that you cannot be giving all our money away.

Makes sense to me. Well, listen, Angel is 44 and Solo is 29. We've heard about what Angel wants outta the relationship, but what about Solo? I think it's time to find out. Everyone, please welcome Solo to the show. 44 years old. Let me tell y'all something, she look good, girl, because that don't look like 44. It's giving very much 33 to 36. Like, she gives very much that. They're a great couple, and I love that they're talking about a future, but it's also good that they're being clear about the communication of what do you want, because I think sometimes in relationship, if you don't clarify what you want, Then the other partner is like, well, you're wasting my time. And it's like, did you waste my time or did you clarify? Because I'm giving you an opportunity to say yes, you want this, or no, you don't. And that's important in relationships.

When I see a lot of people go through things, but I just be wanting to help them out.

Yeah.

You know, I do, I try my best.

Makes sense. But at the same time, your woman, I get it. I understand, I appreciate the fact of you giving back. Yeah. But if your woman is saying there's an issue with the amount of money you've given, why is it holding you? Why are you not able to hear what she's saying?

I actually, I do, I do hear it.

Because $2,000, she said you gave away $2,000 in one month. I mean, one week.

One week, yeah.

That's a lot of money to give away in one week. I mean, you got it, but that don't mean everybody else got to get it. Right, right.

I mean, I don't know. I feel like if I got it and I can help, you know what I mean? I'm gonna do what I can do.

Got it.

I feel like they definitely taking advantage.

Yeah.

Straight up. They all be like, oh, we ain't got no food, call him.

So this is just activity So $60 here, $105 there, $196 there, $60 there. These are all different people.

Yeah.

So everyone just knows that they can come to you and ask for money. Yeah.

Like this is just a whole walking bank right here.

Not a walking bank.

You just hit my babe up.

Okay, now the fact that this man is supposed to be building a future with this woman and he's giving away money, now that's a problem. Like keep your coin in your pocket, keep the coin in the family. Stop putting the money out. So you own your own business. Tell me how you started it.

Basically, I was 22 years old, met a guy who owned his, or he was actually writing his business plan at a juvenile detention center. I would see him just working on his MacBook. Then I eventually asked him like, "Hey, what are you doing on your MacBook?" And he was like, "Man, I'm starting a business plan." Now we're 22 at this time. He gave me a little bit of information and said, "What you good at?" I said, "Man, I'm good at protecting people." And he was like, "I started a security business, took off with it myself." Like I just didn't know.

Good job. Yeah. I mean, it's so interesting that one moment shifted your whole life to a path where you're actually now sustaining yourself at such a young age. Especially in Black folks, they don't teach us like, "Hey, you know, you can start a business very early on." But I also believe that you do love this woman and you wanna have a future with her. Most definitely. And she's telling you, look at this, she got on your shoulder.

Most definitely.

She's telling you that the money is an issue that you're giving away. And even though it's noble you're giving it away, what is life like without her?

It would honestly be different because when you've been with somebody for so long, you mold your life around that person. But I used to have the hood mindset to where I wasn't as outgoing as I am now. You know what I mean? It's just a lot though she's actually brought out of me.

You said the hood mentality growing up. What was life like growing up for you?

Single mother, 4 siblings, father that, I don't know, you know, I think he has some things going on within himself in the divorce that they had. So I became the man of the house at a young age.

What I love is that he was able to identify his past and how that was affecting where he is today because of what he experienced in his past of saying, I need to be able to give back, I need to help. It makes sense of why he's still giving to all these random people. But girl, enough is enough. Enough is enough. Stop giving out my money. Stop giving out the money. Let's keep it in the house so we can build our family. I like all these hand movements that I'm doing. Could be Vanna White.

Seen some robberies, seen some shootings, retaliation.

So this, I asked you that because it gives me context even more about why you're giving. So I have to ask you, what did you receive during that time?

Honestly, The only thing I can say I received is just knowledge.

I wanna know, you wanna marry this woman. Do you also wanna start a family with her? 'Cause she brought up earlier that kids might be an issue.

No, I really don't think it's an issue. I did talk to her about wanting kids and whatnot and she's like, "I'll give you a baby." You know what I'm saying?

Oh.

Wait a minute.

Hold on. So you just told me, you said no, you're not doing it. Now over here. Wait a minute. You really want another one? I really don't want another one, but when you I wonder if Solo is his real name. That'd be a cute name to name your child, Solo. Angel, do you have an ultimatum for Solo today?

Yeah.

Okay, what's the ultimatum?

Say it right now.

Yeah, say it right now. What's the ultimatum?

You know, I don't wanna lose you. You know, again, we both feel that we have, we just stumbled into each other's life. I love you, I respect you, but for me to be the woman that you really want And like you always say, like, oh, I want people to come and go out of my life. I don't want to be that. And so I have been there where 10 or 15 years later I'm like, dang, I wish I would have did this. You haven't did that yet. And so if we keep going the way we're going as far as the finances, I'm not going to feel safe and secure financially with us moving out of my penthouse, getting another house and getting married. When you're dishing out this money, we can't know where we're going, where we're investing in. And so we haven't really talked about what's going to happen If you don't stop doing that. But for me, I feel like I'm not gonna be able to be with you. I'm not, I don't wanna say that, but I'm just saying like, I did that before, then I have to leave that person because that's still bothering me and I don't want that to happen, but I'm not doing it.

What was that for?

I mean, the communication, like I said, between y'all, I believe is really great. Now I can also tell you're an attentive listener, which I appreciate. She's just telling you that. Well, I think this is a beautiful couple. I love that they were able to communicate. I love that we had a breakthrough. This is a healthy relationship that just had a little bit that need to patch up. You know, sometimes on my show we get deep, but sometimes it's like, you know, it could be cute. It's like, let's just fix this, you know? We've done the work. Let's just come here for Karamo Show just for a little extra help. You know, I like that. Would the young boy who had to take care of his mom, could he have imagined the life he has today with this beautiful woman and having a business? Couldn't have. Couldn't have. Why couldn't you have imagined that?

Honestly, I didn't think I was gonna live this long.

Exactly.

So yeah.

So I say that to say, because I already, I know this. When you have a childhood where you don't even know if you're gonna live that long, if you don't know what's going to happen, it does rewire your brain into where everything's about the me. Immediate because what's tomorrow? I don't know if tomorrow's there. And even though you're mature and you've gotten out of it, you also still work in a position that is to some degree dangerous. You're protecting people, which means you're always having to put yourself in front of somebody else to be protected, which again triggers that little boy who says, well, what about tomorrow? So let me help who I can help today. But what you have to start practicing as the man you are today is to say, even though I'm in this position where I protect other people, I must protect myself and I must protect my woman because we do have a future. You have to actually actively wake up and say to yourself, I see myself at 90 years old. So if you're in a relationship where the age is varied, it's all about open communication because obviously different ages, different stages of life. And so just about communicating what you need, clarifying the expectations and just making sure that you're always talking about where you're at because as you get older, you grow, you change. And you gotta be able to communicate that with your partner. And that way you can say, should we stay or should we go? That is your mantra. You're gonna be like, well, hold up, I'm giving you money. I need that for when I'm 90. I need that for when— Oh God. You feel what I'm saying? You start to realize, plus she's telling you that she can't handle a future that makes her feel unstable, unsafe. Yeah. You gotta make her feel safe. You already do. You do it for everybody else. Right.

Yeah.

So make her feel safe. So what's the mantra you're gonna say to yourself every morning?

I wanna see myself at 99 years old.

Boom.

Oh, 99.

Oh, 99. Yeah. That's good. You love your woman. There's not a doubt about it, but it is time, definitely. You made a big leap right now even by saying I see myself at 99 because you're just starting to rewire your mind to understand that you don't have to live for today. You can live for tomorrow and the future. And so that's gonna stop you them they're giving that money, all right? But I do tell y'all, this kid stuff gonna come back up, so y'all better start talking about that somewhere else.

Most definitely.

Oh, see, see, so y'all most definitely, you better get ready, girl. I don't know, you want to— I don't know what's going on. You better get ready. I know he taking you to the moon, but he want a baby, okay? So get your mindset prepared. I wish them the best of luck. I hope when they have their baby that they will definitely name their child Karamo. That's it. I'm done.

Cut the show. I'm done.

Take me off. Take me off. I mean, this is very sad because he's coming here to see if the man who raised him because he didn't feel loved is really his father. Can you imagine that? The parent you had in your house, you're like, I'm just not convinced you're my father because you didn't love me enough. Nice to meet you. So please, Ricardo, tell me, how was life growing up?

I would say that it was kind of rough.

What was your father doing?

Traveling. His mom raised us.

So he was absent? Yeah. Okay. Who did you stay with exactly again?

My grandmother.

So you stayed with, was that his mother? His mom. Okay. And was she older? Yes. So Grandma tried to step in and do the best she could, but she was older at that time.

She was in her 40s or 50s.

That ain't old. You tried it.

Look, I think about 50 though.

He did try it. I'm telling y'all, all y'all little young people out there who think that 30 or 40 or 50 is old, let me tell y'all something. You gonna learn really quickly when you get to this age. As a 40-year-old, you realize life is just starting. You thought it was cute in 20 and 30, Baby, wait till you get to 40 and you feel very comfortable and secure in yourself and you got all the resources you need. 20, 30, that's trash. Let me let y'all know that right now. 20s and 30s are trash. Throw it away. Basura. It's 40s and 50s where it's at. Believe me. Trust. So when did you start living with your father then?

At the age of, I would say, 10.

At 10.

So when she was—

Murdered. Oh, that's when she was murdered. I'm so sorry to hear that. Okay, so how was your father abusive to you?

Not really. He chastised us. But as I got older, he began to put his hands on me.

It breaks my heart to hear that he says that as I got older, my father started to put his hands on me. It just gets to a place where you're like thinking like, why would you want to see a child? I just never understood this for myself as even as a parent, I just couldn't do it myself. I would never hit my kid. Because I'm like, I'm so big and you're so small. What am I getting out of hitting you? Is that really my best way of informing you that you can be better? And I know we grew up in a world where it's like, you know, people feel like, oh, just, you know, like, just, you know, hit 'em. But like, when you, I just, I don't get it personally. Like why people feel like, just, I wish we could just record somebody who thinks it's okay to hit the kids. 'Cause I'm like, look how big you are and look how small. If I was kicking a dog, Sorry, I don't wanna go on this tangent, but you get what I'm saying? It just always confuses me when I see people who are like, look how big you are, look how small. So what do you want most from him today?

What I want from him is I want him to be a father. I want him to be receiving of corrective criticism.

Got it.

He needs to understand that I am 34 years old And I no longer have no more fight in me to keep allowing people to hurt me.

I'm sorry. I can't do it no more. Yeah, you take this.

So I have to let go.

Yeah, you're tired of fighting. I don't have any more fight in me. Yeah.

And I don't even know what to say.

I'm just speechless. You know, listen, when he said, "I don't have any more fight in me," oh, I felt that. 'Cause sometimes you're just exhausted. Exhausted. You don't have any more fight to like try to make it work. And I think sometimes that's a clear indication that it's time for you to take a break, that it's time for you to say, let me step away from this and then come back later. In this moment, you brought yourself on the show, so I'm gonna try to help you through that moment. But in real life, if you feel like I'm exhausted, it's okay to just like say, you know what, enough is enough. By saying I don't have a fight is saying, "I'm about to set a boundary that I can heal and grow on my own, and maybe we can come back together later." And it's something that we have to say, and we have to acknowledge when people say it, what they're saying actually.

You can't be a father to a child who's not present. If you're not in the house and you're steadily going to programs, not because of nothing I've done, but because the choices you make, You can't be a parent. You can't be a parent to someone who's absent.

Okay. So you feel like he was out of the house and so that's therefore you couldn't be a father? Is that what you're saying? Or you were out of the house? No.

What I'm saying, him going to programs, getting in trouble in school and being away keeps me from being that nurturing, that loving father that he needs.

Your first assumption is like this man has a problem with his son's sexuality. But then he says he doesn't. But then he says something I've heard many times. People are like, "It's when you do too much." But it's like, what does that actually mean when someone says you do too much? Is it because they're communicating their feelings? Is it because they're trying to express to you? Is it because they are more vocal? That's where the line is. And it makes it a little confusing of like, because now that bleeds into who I am. Which can relate to sexuality for some individuals. And I think it's important that we watch that language. You do too much. You gotta find exactly what it is that you're trying to say because it can become confusing. I don't wanna say this man is homophobic, but I do understand why his son could feel like when you say I do too much, that he's saying it's layered to him.

I mean, I love all my kids the same. There's no different kid.

Yeah. You love each one different.

I had to get out though. And because I didn't feel as though I was loved. And that's the truth.

So do you—

There's no lying.

Did you raise him?

I raised him and his brothers.

Okay. 'Cause he says the first 10 years of his life, more so he lived with your mother. We did.

That's not true because what happened was when I got custody of him, my mother stepped in because me being a teenager.

So how old were you when you had him?

16.

16, okay. And he's not your first, so at 16 you already had 2?

Yes.

Okay, got it, okay. And so 16 to 26, I understand. So you're going through your own things, you're trying to figure out your own life. He's craving his mother's validation and love. Was she 16 as well? She was. Yeah. And so you just want your parents around during that time. Right. So you were there, but you couldn't fully be there because you were younger. Right.

I was in high school.

Yeah. Okay.

And, you know, just going to school, trying to be a parent. I mean, learning how to be a parent, early age. But at least I did step up to the plate to get them. I could have just let them go into foster care or go into the care of the state, but I stepped up.

So what exactly— I can't lie to you. It's always weird to me when parents won a medal for stepping up. Well, I was going— He's like, well, I mean, I could have put you in foster care. Like, really? That's an option? On your head? I mean, I understand what he's trying to convey. Like, I was there, but it's like, if you have decided— if your child is in this world, you don't have a choice. It's like you have to be there. That is— this is your responsibility. And I don't know why we have to give awards for that. It's like, this is what you do. Common sense.

I don't have a problem with his sexuality. I have a problem with it when he gets overboard. Start doing things, saying things that he shouldn't say. When I come back with the lashing of the tongue, it's because of the words that he said. See, it takes two to have those things. I'm only gonna take so much of you talking to me any kind of way. I'm the parent. I'm not saying that the parent is right, but I'm just saying you have to respect your parent and you have to be careful what you say because when you—

I do.

Always be ready to handle the heat in the kitchen if you gonna throw the heat out.

Got it. So why don't, but as his father, why don't you just walk away then when he starts to get it? Because we understand, and you're a very smart man, when kids lash out, it's because they're going through pain. I was a young father as well. So my child was born when I was 16. So I understand that there are moments where, like even now, there's only a 15-year difference. And so when he says stuff to him, sometimes I see a grown man, I'm looking at him like, if he was on the street, it'd be a different situation. But I have to click myself into, I'm the father. So your words are coming from a state of pain. There's something that's hurting you from what, something in your childhood, from your mother, something that's hurting you. So I can't match your pain. So why don't you, in those moments when he hits, as you said, brings the heat in the kitchen, why don't you just walk out the kitchen? Why don't you just say, let me walk away?

Well, I'm not that guy.

He said, I asked him, why can't you walk away? And he said, I'm not that guy. Exactly where the growth needs to happen. Like, if I spend another 2 hours with that man, I'd be able to help him identify that's the problem. This is why you're communicating and you're fighting with your child. This is why you say things that's constantly hurting your child, is because I asked you, why can't you just walk away instead of matching his pain, matching his fire? I'm not that guy, and that's the issue, because I need— he needs you to be the guy who can walk, who can be better. Than what he's experiencing in his pain. How did it make you feel that he wanted the DNA test?

Well, I was shocked.

Yeah.

But at the end of the day, a DNA test does not make him not my son.

I want to know from you, can you acknowledge—

My daddy don't care about me for real, sir. And that's it. Like, after I leave here today, he will be blocked.

I actually disagree with that. I actually disagree with that.

I disagree.

Tell me how. Because—

Tell me how.

Don't say that there's not dysfunction here. I believe there's dysfunction. I believe y'all got into a pattern of hurting each other.

He's going to agree with you so, sir, I promise you.

But I also saw the breakdown in communication. I saw him say several times. I had communication with him. I do believe that you should have still walked away. I saw you get to your point. Did we all see it? That doesn't hurt my feelings. We all saw it, all right?

It don't hurt my feelings.

'Cause I didn't ask for what I got. I know.

So it don't matter.

But as you're trying to heal yourself.

I'm good on him though.

As you're trying to heal.

I'm good on him and I'm telling him that to your face. I'm good on you.

Well then, let's figure this out because I think the thing is, is if you're saying that you are done with your father, it's what you least need to know if he is your father or not. So this has the DNA results to show this is your father or not.

He does that all the time though.

So yeah. This is yours to see.

Okay.

Yeah, he is my biological father.

Okay. Yeah. He came here to find out if he wasn't his father. And I think that if he wasn't his father, the DNA results would've been different. I do believe that he would've still been upset. I saw you get to a place where you just like, we're not gonna go there. We're not gonna do this. We're not gonna do that. And then you said, okay, we gonna go there. Can you commit to in those moments when you hit your moment, just walk away? Because in this moment, even if you would've got up and just walked off, then he wouldn't have felt the embarrassment. He wouldn't have felt whatever he's feeling, the disrespect that I could have probably broken through. But right now there's no breakthrough for me because what happened is any wall that was down got built right back up.

Oh, that's it.

And so now he goes right into the attitude and he's mimicking your attitude. You know that, right? So there's something that you all missed that in the moment y'all didn't see. As they were going together, and you know, you caught a little bit of the father blurting out and saying something that we all got shocked to, but he actually continued on saying more there, had to come out the edit, about his son's past. And it just was, it just was ridiculous. It just, it literally was bad. And I had to assure this young man that we would never use any of that, which we You did not. And you know, so when you see him saying, cut the show, cut the show, it's because he felt so violated. He felt like you just revealed so much about me that why would you do that as my father? Why would you do that? To get back at me? And so that's where that reaction is coming from. He's like, I'm done. I've been hurt my entire life. And now you just hurt me again, purposefully. You did not need to share so much stuff. It's interesting that this clip has went viral on TikTok. People use it as a trending sound, which is not funny because like this little boy's little trauma, and then we like, we like, you know, but that's what y'all do on social media.

Cut the show, I'm done, take me off.

Y'all take whatever y'all want. Um, but not— I don't want it. Y'all, y'all wrong for that. I'm gonna tell y'all, but it's funny, but it's not funny. I don't even know, I'm conflicted. But y'all made this a trending sound. Take me off. Cut the show. I'm done. Can you make that commitment for him? No. Can you make that commitment? No, I don't want it.

I came here.

I do not want it.

I came because I do love him.

No, he does not.

Regardless of the outcome.

I'm done.

I don't want it.

Regardless of the outcome, whatever happens from this point forward.

I'm good. Moving forward. I'm good. From here on out, he has to just stay away from a while. I think this is a moment where they have to separate. There's too much retriggering each other. They're just hurting each other. Like I said before, anywhere where the wall could have been broken down, it went right back up when the father started disrespecting. And I think you saw a little bit of it, but there was a lot more. And I think that context Let's help people to understand that, like, he's making the best decision for himself by severing ties right now. And I'm glad that he can actually take his moment for himself. All right, now it's time to cut the show. I'm ready to go. I'm ready to go. I can't do it no more. Cut the show. Cut the show. I'm a blubbering mess on this episode. You don't even have to play this episode, I know what it is. Like— So y'all know for me, if I'm going to ask you all, my guests, people who support my show, any of you to do something, to be vulnerable, I gotta do the same. Because I think that's how you know that I'm real, that's how I know that we're connecting. And so, you know, we had never talked about this story ever. But I knew it was important for us to do it. And the minute that my son said he wanted to talk about it, I did it. And so as you can see, I'm an emotional wreck. I'm an emotional wreck. Whew, I gotta get myself together, girl. Oh my gosh. Oh, sorry. Whew. The audience is so supportive. They're always like, "You got this." That's so sweet. I love all of them. It's like the encouragement I give, they always give back to me. It was a very, very hard day for me. My son, this is at the beginning of the pandemic. My son was basically a great kid. Oh my gosh, look at us. We were so young. Listen, one of the things, the biggest lesson of this whole thing for me that I ever learned is you can't put your kids in boxes. We put people in these boxes and say this person is this way, this person that way, this is the sister that's that way, this is this aunt that's that way, and then you just limit us as human beings. And we don't realize someone's full human experience. And that's when we start missing stuff. And especially when it comes to kids, you miss things when you just label your child one way. So if you label them the troublemaker, you're not seeing all the good things they do. If you label them the good one, you're not seeing the moments where they can have struggles. You gotta be able to see your children as their whole selves. Maybe it's just the fact that he's young. You know, he was 23 at the time. You know what I love about this is Jason has the courage. For me, it's always been about breaking the own generational trauma in our family. And we've done that in other areas. And so drug addiction was something that I suffered with. And so, you know, it's something that I felt like he would never suffer with. And to find out like, you know, that he was suffering with her was really hard. When I got to the apartment, I went up the stairs and the door was ajar. And I thought something was going on. I thought maybe he had gotten robbed, we'd gotten robbed, or something was happening. I opened the door and it was a complete mess. The house was, the house was dirty. And I saw my son laying on the floor in cat litter, foam coming out of his mouth. Ooh, I'm just crying, crying, crying, crying. When it's your own baby, it hurts your heart. My own baby. I sprung into, I'm sorry, y'all. This is, I don't know if you've ever experienced addiction in your own lives or with family members, but when you find out what's going on, when you realize it's been happening and you didn't realize it, when you realize that you might lose someone, it just kills you inside. And I was terrified that I was about to lose my son. And I, I sprang into dad mode and tried to figure out how to get him help, try to figure out what to do. And the crazy part is I didn't take him to the hospital immediately because I didn't know what to do. I was in shock. And I say this and I'm vulnerable with you all in this way because I'm trained in this. I give this advice all day. And when it came to my own life, my own moment, I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do. And I say that for anybody else who's out there going through this stuff, don't beat yourself up because none of us know how to handle this type of stuff. But I got him to a doctor. I got a doctor immediately to the house. And basically he woke up 2 days later unaware of what was going on. And I told him he had to go to rehab. And it was a hard moment, but we made it through. And I would love for you all to meet my son Jason, who has now been 2 years sober. Prince, come on out. Hey, Daddy's baby. So I call my son Prince. I've called him Prince since the day I met him. Oh my gosh. Well, and sometimes when I'll leave him voice messages, I'll be like, Prince of Zamunda, this is your father calling. That's a Coming to America reference, if you didn't know. Oh my God. Um, so something y'all going to find out is Jason and I sound exactly alike. Yeah, all the time. We get that all the time. All the time. Yeah, yeah, it's kind of weird. Y'all hear it? Y'all hear it a little bit? Okay, so Jason, I just want to know from you, what— it is kind of odd that my son and I sound exactly alike. I'm always like, you should go get a job in voiceovers because I get paid for my voice, so I don't know why you over here sleeping on some coins. You sound just like your father, so You literally can go back to the same places I got my money and be like, "Hey, you need somebody else who sounds like that guy? 'Cause I can do it." But that's just the hustler in me. So I, again, thought that I could be aware of all this science. Like I have clients that come into my office and I'd be like, "Oh, there's something going on. I can see it." I did not know you were using, when did you start? So it all started like right after, like right after in college. Not the laugh. Yeah, no.

Because—

Girl, you had a good memory right there. I'm like, "How'd you find?" You talking about, "That client." No, no, because the story— So Jason came to me and said that he wanted to be on the show to finally talk about it because his story, his— Jason's journey of sobriety was his own story. And I think it's important that we respect people when they're on their journey. I think sometimes we feel like it's, we gotta tell everybody. Like if somebody's going through something, it's like, tell everybody, phone line, call, call, call, call, call. But that doesn't always support the person. You have to be able to have the person be able to say, this is how I wanna share my story. This is how I wanna heal. To heal. And so I asked him, like, how do you want to share this? Do you want to share this with all family members, some family members? As you're getting help, what can I do? And, um, and so once he finally said, I'm ready to share, 2 years later, I said, I'm here to support you. And so he was the one who wanted to share on the show because I was respecting his journey. Like, one of the things I'll tell y'all, parenting style, I don't believe in punishing a child if they're honest with you because I believe it fosters an atmosphere atmosphere of like, well, if you're honest then, and I get punished, well, I might as well just lie. So I would always be like, if you honestly tell me the truth, you're not in trouble. We'll just have a conversation. We'll learn from it. We'll grow. We'll talk. So why in that moment did you feel like you could talk to me? Why didn't you moment, you think you could call me and say, hey dad, I got messed up. I know, you know. [Speaker] I don't know. I just was, like I said, I wasn't thinking straight. I was super drunk, dad. "And I'm not about to tell you I got your car out here with these kids and I'm just wilding out. Like, that's not a thing I'm about to do." Yeah. So I remember you telling me that you were relieved that you got caught. Yes, I was actually so relieved at it. So prior to us coming on the show, Jason and I didn't have any conversation about what we were gonna talk about here. We had had these conversations, you know, like in the house, you know, but we didn't really talk about what we were because we just said we're gonna have a real conversation. That's why you see all the emotions pouring outta me because it's just real. Right. What was it that was getting to you that made you feel like you just didn't want to live anymore? I was super depressed. I was not talking to you, mom, family at all. I just lost all type of connection with anybody and anything that I ever once loved except for drugs. That was the only thing I was obsessing with. Yeah. So one of the things that I beat myself up a lot, and I said this to you early and I kind of said, don't feel guilty. If you feel this at home. Don't feel guilty if you have a family member and you didn't know. But one of the things is like I always said to myself, how did I miss the signs? How did I miss the signs? Like, this is my baby. We talk every day. I don't get how I missed this. Why do you think I missed the signs? Honestly, it was up to me. I came up to you every day, anytime I would see you or anytime I would call you, and I would present myself in the best light. Hey, Dad, ain't nothing wrong going over here. Surely was just making sure that you had no idea what was going on. I was on my P's and Q's with that. Yeah, I think it's— Oh, Jason, I'm so sorry I gave you my chubby face. You have them chubby cheeks 'cause of me. Ah, but you also got them good eyebrows from your daddy too. Hit him with the eyebrow, Jason. Mm-mm-mm. He got his mama's eyes. If y'all ever saw me and Jason's mother, you would see that he is a direct splitting image of the two of us. So I know this, but how has your life changed since rehab? My life has been way better, actually. Yeah? I didn't like rehab. You on the Karamo show too? Yeah, I did rehab. You on the Karamo show. Really good, actually. I'm joking. I'm joking. I'm joking. I'm joking. I'm joking. No, it changed drastically and for the better, for the best ways. At first I was very shameful of rehab and going through that process, but I realized that I needed it and it taught me a lot about myself and how to love myself and how to just really just show up for myself in different ways I never knew how to. I feel so good. I'm proud of you, Prince. Thank you. You've been doing it. I just watched you ascending. But one thing as you're ascending, I have learned is I still check in on you. And it's not just now about drugs, but it's also about everything. All the things that I think he should just, I already assume that he can handle, I check in on all that now. I mean, he still get on my nerves sometimes. This morning, if y'all saw us backstage, he didn't have the right outfit. I was like, why you ain't got the outfit? I'm still strict dad. By the way, just in case if any of y'all are wondering, Jason is doing phenomenal. He is now going on year 3 of being fully sober. Which is great. And the communication has gotten so much better. And part of that communication— our communication was already good, but it's gotten even better because now I don't put Jason in boxes anymore. Like, I allow Jason to be exactly who he is and not to say, oh look, he's sober now, he's great. Because I'm like, yeah, you're great, and I'm gonna encourage that, but I'm also aware that things could happen, you could slip. So I'm aware now, allows that conversation to be great. Truly, I would like the world just to know that if you're going through something, please reach out. Um, drug— a drug addiction can show up in minor forms or in a major form, and before it gets too late for you or too detrimental, just please reach out to somebody. I just love how he's just helping other people as well with his story, and I, I appreciate that because he learned that from me. I'm always about being transparent about my story so that I can help others and it also helps me to continue to grow. And he's doing the same. Proud of that boy. I love, love that kid. So what would you say to any of their generation that still feels like, oh, you know what? I just, I can just do what I wanna do. I mean, it's gonna catch up to you. I promise you, drugs are gonna catch up to you. It's gonna show in the worst ways. And I mean, honestly, just put it down. It's just whack, low key, just whack. I'm just gonna be real with you. Put down the drugs, it's whack. Oh, you got me crying out here. This is the first time on my own. Listen, backstage they had to give me so many tissues. Prince, in case you're watching this, which I know you are because you watch everything, um, I just want to let you know I am proud of you. I see your growth and I see what you're doing, and I just look forward to continue to watching you soar, um, because as I told you since you were a child way before. You are the best of me and your mother. You truly are. You are the best of us, and, and that makes you even greater than even you know yet, because once you continue to tap in, sky is not the limit, it's just the beginning. Love you, Prince. Okay, let's start this. What y'all about to show me today?

This future politician's on the booty camp.

Oh my God, how did you find this? That was my ex-boyfriend. Oh my gosh, I told y'all about this. Did I tell y'all about this? Let's get rolling. I've had several girls tell me that I was their parents' dream. I think I'm excellent. Oh my gosh, okay, so that light-skinned boy was my boyfriend at the time, and he wanted to be on TV really bad, and they wouldn't cast him without me going on, so I had to go on this show and pretend to be straight. And I was like, girl, I'm over this. I'm doing this for you. For you. Oh my gosh. It's always been my goal since I was a child to be a politician. It has been my goal to be a politician. Oh my gosh, did they change? Bitch, I had a smolder on me that 8 at 21. Y'all could not even deal with it. That same smile though. I mean, I don't think there's a point to be cheating. I mean, if you're in love with somebody and you want to satisfy them and be with them, there's no point in you cheating. Why was he dropping knowledge at 21, y'all? Girl, I was 21 dropping knowledge. Now y'all know why I got a talk show. It was in the DNA. I have never cheated. It was true then and it is true now. We don't cheat. Open, honest communication. If I wanna step out the relationship, then we need to talk about it so we can end it and move on or make a deal of what we doing. Ain't nobody got time for cheating. Who cheats? It's so tacky. Just communicate. Let the person make their decision. 'Cause you will be surprised who will say, you know what? I might be down with this. Let's go have a little fun.

I mean, if I feel like our soul is connected and our spirituality is connected and all the points are connecting the right way they're supposed to be, then maybe.

Do you have any kids? Kids like most politicians? Nope. Oh, you know what? You got any kids like most politicians? Baby, I did. One popped up 4 years later.

You have some potentials that y'all don't even know about.

The gag, the gag that she called me. I didn't even know that I was gonna have a kid later on. Bitch, why was I so leaned in? Some producer told me to do that.

Act right.

That's when you come with the left hook or my knife.

I don't know.

Stephanie tries to act like a— This is so funny because my baby mama's name is Stephanie.

At first I thought Karamo was lame, but he's showing some signs of an undercover thug.

I'm a thugger. Baby, y'all cannot— That smolder eats. Baby, that smolder eats. Y'all see the smolder I got going on? Oh my gosh, where did you get this from? Was this through NBC? How did y'all get it? Oh my gosh! Real eccentric and beautiful look. The last time I saw this video was 20, 19 years ago? I was 21, like there was no YouTube and stuff where I could come on. This is so funny. This gonna come back and haunt me when I do run for office one day. Watch this. This is the moment where I wish one of my heroes, Jerry Springer, was still around because he ran for office and I can ask him for some advice. Because when I make that transition from talk show host The Vice President of the United States? This is gonna come back. This is when I make the transition from talk show host to governor. This gonna come back and haunt me. I did like her. She was— this one right here was impeccable. I was like, if I was dating girls, she would have been it. She was just so smart. She was like forward-thinking. I love the look. Laila has a natural and beautiful look, and I'm really into that. Karamo is suave.

Oh, he's handsome.

Glayla is smart. Girl, y'all can't tell me— I swore that I was Morris Chestnut. Them eyes stayed— or Tank, that's who I thought I was. I was Tank. Them eyes stayed closed. Somebody put a side-by-side of me on this show next to Tank and see if y'all tell me them smolders weren't exactly the same at that time. Why we all was 21 but looked like we was heading on to 30? We did not look 21. No, that doesn't mean she wants to be appreciated, is what that means. Come on, read your boyfriend that's not your boyfriend on this show. Oh my gosh.

Hi.

I'm scared of y'all. You guys are all like— No. We ain't gonna bite you. We grown folks in here.

So you talked about earlier on, you know, who's feeling who or whatever, but you were evasive with your answer, so— Give us some more.

You need— not the presidential advice. Do I have political ambitions? Yes. There's nothing more to tell. I'm a talk show host right now. One goal at a time.

No, in you.

More in you.

Play, play, play.

Listen, you see that vagueness is because I'm a homosexual. The reason I was being vague there is because I'm a raging homosexual. So when they asking me, who do you want to date? I don't know, baby. Either I was bored, or I thought I was giving y'all so much.

What's the sexiest thing you think on you?

My lips.

Will you lick them for me? Oh yes, just like—

Uh-uh, no ma'am. The things that will come back and haunt you. Okay, Karamo, your turn with Whitney. So, Karamo, did I have on a dress shoe? This is that early 2000s style. Guys had to go to the club with a button-down shirt because I want a girl who I know thinks highly of herself and, you know, I can leave her on one side of the room and she'll have that whole side of the room just captivated. That's the same way I do feel about men. I need you to be your own self because I'm my own self. That's good advice. Why was I dropping gems, y'all, at 21? I've not seen this since. Well, yeah, that's, you know, that's what I'm feeling from you. Wow. Hold on, I forgot. Did anybody pick me on this show? Did I get picked? I can't remember. She'd make a good first lady. Oh my God, I wonder if she likes cigars. I don't like cigars. Look at the way you carry yourself, you know what I mean? You're sitting very poised, you speak very eloquently. I mean, it's nice. I don't even know what to say.

Nothing, just thank you is enough for me.

Whitney is the best of Stephanie and Leila rolled into one.

I really liked Karamo. He's everything that I asked for.

She's beautiful, she's She's well-spoken, she's confident, and I like that.

I like the fact that Karamo wasn't all over me and he respected me.

Let's hit the casino. Not the Hustler Casino. To get lucky.

So, um, anything else happening between you and Stephanie?

And I did not kiss anybody on this show, did I? Okay, I knew so. I was like, my little gay ass was not kissing nobody because I know them producers was like, kiss, kiss, kiss, make out. And I'm like, no, y'all. It's not happening. Oh, I kissed the hand. See, a gentleman. I knew that. If they didn't know I was gay right there— you on a dating show and I kissed your hand. How did y'all not know I was gay on this show? What happened? Oh my God. Okay, who picks who? Who picked me? Did I— I swear to God, I don't remember this. I better have got picked. Can y'all believe I'm standing next to my boyfriend of 2 years at that point by this. The person that I chose tonight was Whitney. Yeah, I would have chose Whitney. I chose Whitney because she's beautiful, she's intelligent, she's poised. She's— did Whitney pick me?

When I arrived tonight, it was obvious that there was only one guy that met my high standards, and that was you.

I got the girl.

That was a little boy, and I got the man.

Yes, you did get a man. Okay.

That's it for The Fifth Wheel, where strangers become lovers and lovers be—

I am gagged. Let me tell y'all something. When I tell y'all that I understand what my guests have been through, it's because I understand.