8 Satisfying Resolutions & Updates From Karamo Show | KARAMO

Tell me, tell me. I'm watching you. We're all watching you. I've tried to say this. I don't know if you're doing this for ratings at this point. I've said everything. I'm doing this for your daughter is what I'm doing this for. So why is he denying your daughter?

My daughter has Down syndrome. Oh. He doesn't believe that because she has trisomy 21 that it came from. She came from him.

Yeah.

And also because he's controlling and I'm not the one to be controlled. So that's another way. He's ulterior motive. He has motives.

So he has motives. So when did he just start denying your child?

Well, the first time he started doing it, when we first found out, the day we first found out that I was pregnant, he was on a phone call with his friend. His friend said, "You sure that that's your baby?" And he didn't even respond. He didn't even respond. Yeah.

And how long we been together at this point?

Well, we were only a couple months in, so I'll say probably about when this happened, probably about 4 months in.

4 months in, okay then. Was she planning? Was Violet planning?

She was actually planning, yes. We were taking vitamins and everything to conceive. So where did we go wrong, you know?

Yeah, so if we're together, I'm telling you, we've talked about it, I'm taking vitamins, why all of a sudden the switch up? Got it. Is he harassing you online now?

He not, well, not anymore. A month ago I cut it short, blocked him. Even going from his new supply, going from her page, 'cause you know Facebook can get messy. It tells you who looking. So you know, when he come to—

Facebook tell you who looking now?

Yeah.

Oh, I didn't know that.

And for your people.

Really?

Yeah, tell 'em, clock that tea.

What? Oh, I didn't know that. Okay, so let me go backwards. How did y'all meet?

We met on a dating website. I wanted to give it a try. You know, I heard a lot of success stories, so I wanted to give it a try. Gave it a try. Awesome guy, outstanding guy. You know, surprised me. Sheep and wool clothing.

Got it.

Started coming out.

So how was the relationship when he moved in?

He moved himself in, he wasn't supposed to be there. Let's be honest, he was one of those.

Got it.

May I get a tissue?

Yeah, of course you can.

He actually moved himself in on me. And when he did that, I didn't like that. I told him why don't you—

How many months in did he move himself in?

Immediately.

Immediately. So y'all were just like talking, messing around, and all of a sudden, you know, he was leaving clothes, the toothbrush.

Right, leaving clothes, the toothbrush. I mean, I said, I'll wash your clothes for you because I see that you had a consistent clothing that you were wearing. So I say, he's a good guy, he looks like he's down bad, he need a little help, let me help him out, you know? Go get your clothing, I'll wash them for you so you can have clean clothing. Those clothes never made it back to where they had to go. Got it.

So how do you feel about what she had to say?

I think she's lying about a lot. That's number one. She's painting a whole nother picture of who she is.

Okay. What's the picture she's painting? Tell me from your point of view. I'm sorry, I wanna talk to you for a bit.

I don't wanna be interrupted. She said her piece.

Okay, tell me your piece.

First off, I showed her that I was a good father to all of our children, all six. And we was homeschooling two of them.

Okay.

Everything they asked me for, everything she asked me for.

So this is in the fourth, in four months y'all were together or five months, whatever the short time, you're saying that you helped co-parent with her other kids? Oh, of course.

When I first came into the picture, listen, I was, my landlord had passed away from COVID and I went to go stay with my son's mom and I got on the dating app and I met her. And within, I think it was two weeks at the most, She was like, "I don't like me and my person to be living in different locations," stuff like that. That's how I came about living with her. But she was everything I wanted. She was, "Oh my God, we can chill, talk about anything." That's the person I met. But when I moved in and got to know this person, like she stays out all times of night. She leaves her kids with me. She said, "Oh, you're a great babysitter." She told me that on numerous occasions. Which way you gonna do me? You gonna sit here lying after I leave my children with you at nighttime to go where? Listen, let me tell you something. At nighttime. She makes excuses. No, 'cause what you not gonna do is lie. No, I don't have to lie on you. That's one thing. I'm not even with you no more. No, you're not gonna sit here and tell these lies on me. And you're right. No, that's not who I am. It's not, period.

So why haven't you been in Violet's life then? The child is 4 months old, 5 months old? 4 months. How old is Violet now?

She's 4 months.

4 months old. So 4 months old. If you felt like there could have been some possibility, why didn't I get a DNA test quick? Quickly in the hospital and just be there and get the baby.

Okay, so this is what she did before the baby was born. She moved. You know what, Karamo, I'm sorry to cut you off. She moved so far away. But your daughter is in the hospital right now as we speak. Let me answer his question. You can't speak for me. That's another thing she does.

This sucks so bad. So she moved, so she's saying she moved from, 'cause you're in Florida and she's in North Carolina.

Yeah, she moved and went up north. That's her daughter right there, she's in the hospital. Okay, let me get to that.

So she moved to North Carolina and you moved to, you're in Florida right now.

She knew I was in Miami, I'm not just gonna pick up and then she did this while we was broken up. She didn't contact me till months after and say, hey, your baby this and that. I didn't miss none of my kids' births, not one.

Why is she in the hospital right now? So sorry, by the way.

She got a, thank you, she got a virus and because she has Down syndrome, her immune system is weak. Is not as strong as ours. And she gonna say on camera, I rejected my baby because of Down syndrome? And you did. What? Come on, man. I have no reason to say that. Listen, listen, listen. I'm gonna tell you something. I take care of mine. I took care of hers. No, you don't. I take care of mine.

'Cause you have 3 children total, correct?

Yeah.

And are you a good father to those kids?

Oh, of course. And you really wanna find out about mine, but you was over there worried about the paternity of the other one. Yeah, and I wanna know. But you wanna make it a messy situation for me. But I did that. That's not your business.

Okay. Say what you want.

Valid is your business. I did find out that my daughter, because there was some infidelity there, but she was a woman about it. She told me. She wasn't doing all this. And then my son's mom.

You mentioned earlier that she has a relationship with your mother now and that it made you upset because your mother didn't even raise you.

And call her a crackhead bitch back in the day. Listen, I can't talk like this. Until I can talk to you, I'll come back. That's what he do, he walk away, coward. Coward.

Has his mother met Violet?

She calls.

She calls?

She calls, she checks on Violet every day, she calls.

So his mother tries to check in and see. So his mother does believe that too.

I'm sorry, Karamo, but I got insides with him. For one, you denied my child medically and then you gonna sit here on this show and lie and say that you did not. For what reason am I gaining to sit here and lie on you? He knew about, he sat down on that phone and told me in my face. Oh, that doesn't run in my family. So what does that tell you? And that's your baby. Mm, mm, mm.

What was he saying back there? Jeffrey, I'd like to hear you, but you gotta come back on stage for me to hear you.

Mm. You want me to be nice after you denied my child with a disability? I just got there, Karamo.

Jeffrey, what is it that you feel that you feel like I'm not hearing you? Can we do this?

Can I switch seats since, can I talk to you now? 'Cause I can't, no.

But I'm hearing everything you're saying, so I'm not sure where the discomfort coming is because I've been giving you direct eye contact and giving you everything you need. So I'm confused to why you think I'm not hearing you.

She's interrupting me, her back's to me. I feel like I can't talk to you properly.

Would you mind exchanging seats with me?

I don't have a problem. Call me. That's better.

So is there something you need me to know? Yeah.

Back to me answering your questions. When I was dealing with this person, I've tried very hard. I tried so hard with anybody I ever been with.

You tried hard.

I tried so hard with those kids, like, and then we had a baby coming, so I wanna make sure that I got to know, it was 6 personalities to know. I took time for each and one of them.

I understand.

And I love them all. And the way she took them away from me.

Backstage, your mother is here, Tracy. And so I wanna bring Tracy out.

It doesn't even matter what she has to say.

So let's bring out Tracy to the show. You don't have a relationship with her?

First of all.

No. Okay, ever? Ever in your life? No. Okay. Hi, welcome. Thank you for being here.

First of all, Jeffrey told me that the baby wasn't his. He wanted DNA.

Okay.

He refused to give me Stephanie number when he gave me her number. And I looked at the baby I said, well, Jeffrey. Well, the baby look like me. Yeah, he blocked me.

Is that true?

Because I said, okay, woman, have what you want to do. No, no, no, no. When I talked to Stephanie, he knew I had a conversation with her. No, no, no. Listen, that's not how it went. I was talking to my mom. You know the reason why she moved away? Because he was abusing her. Listen, oh my God. And she was trying to keep a roof over her kids' head. So that's a lie.

Okay, but your mother said that you called her and said you denied the child and you want a paternity test. Is that true?

This is what happened.

Is that a yes or no?

No, that's not what happened. The only reason I gave my mom Stephanie's number is because I wasn't in the mood the talk to Stephanie, but I wanted to know what was happening with my child. I hear that, but they turned around and did this. So what you're saying is that you're sitting here lying, bro.

You're saying that you never called me?

You told me the baby wasn't yours. No, you can't even act so seamless. Listen, she was staying here, but that ain't my baby.

Why do you think that? So then why do you think that he's denying her?

Run. Because of her medical condition when she was born. He asked me, he said, well, do they run in my family? I said, you got— I ain't got no reason You forgot you had medical conditions when you was born.

So can I ask you this? I was also surprised. My producers told me that you're engaged now.

Yeah.

And your fiancée's here? Yeah. Okay. Melissa, you're his fiancée?

Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. What happened?

This is his fiancée.

How many has that been?

So how long have y'all been together?

7 months.

You've been together 7 months, so the minute they broke up.

Wait a minute.

Did you know about the situation?

As a woman, I'm gonna say this. When I met him, he showed me. How many men I know, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, he still ain't got married yet. He was loving, he was caring, he helped me with my kids, everything. When I first met him, he wanted to, he told me about, I didn't even know he had a baby coming. I knew about her. From conversation, but I didn't know he had a baby coming. But I seen he wanted to be in her life 'cause he would talk about her, he would get her to send pictures of her stomach. He was trying to be there. But whatever the situation was that happened.

So from your point of view, at the beginning, he was claiming this child?

Yeah, he was. And he wanted to be there, but I don't know what happened. So I'm a woman, so I have kids, so I'm not gonna speak on anybody. And I told him, I want you to be in your child's life.

So you're telling me that there was a point he was Claiming the child, he was there, and then all of a sudden something changed.

He's there for his other kids too. I've been there supporting him with his other kids. He goes to see them all the days.

Yeah, so that's consistent. She said the same thing. Stephanie said the same thing. She said that she was good. He gave her the flowers. So this part is all consistent. So nothing. The part that I'm getting confused at is when did it switch?

He's saying to me he feels like dealing with her is gonna be difficult.

Do you think Violet is Jeffrey's baby?

I don't know. I can't speak on it. Whatever the case is, it's on him. I support him every one step of the way.

So she's being respectful, she's being respectful.

If he knew that was his baby, why every conversation he gotta cuss her out? Sort of saying, "How is my baby doing?" How is my baby doing? You gotta call police and agents and this and that. He don't never say nothing about violence, never.

What's gonna happen when we know the DNA? Okay, if we find out, what's gonna happen when we know that? Thank you so much, by the way. Thank you so much for sharing the insight, Melissa. I appreciate that. Well, I think it's time to get the DNA truth. So. Thank you.

Yeah! Let's go! Look at that lip right there. Look at the lip.

In this envelope is the DNA truth that you have been questioning. Stephanie, I'm gonna give you this truth to open.

Okay. Now, Jeffrey, your child is in the hospital. Can you look at me as a man as I'm looking at you as a woman? I'm not living in disgust with you. I still got some type of love for you. I don't have nothing for you. I don't care if you hate me. It doesn't matter to me. I ain't gotta open nothing. When I give you the results— Open the envelope, G. I don't care about what you said. Are you gonna be there? I just wanna know about your child. Or you wanna sign your rights over? You'll see, open the envelope. Okay. What does that say? It's a biological father. You are the father.

It says, what does it say?

Yes! How did you know that was your baby? She look just like me. You knew that was your baby? She look just like me. I'm a whore and I'm a slut. I thought when I was out with Mr. Hill, she got my nose, she look just like me and my other kids. Just like the father. And I told you that. Don't tell me to get off the page 'cause I'm about to be the one Probably take care of her. No. You ain't take care of your twins. What you mean? 'Cause you didn't give me the chance. You ain't take care of your twins. You ain't give me the chance. What are you talking about?

No.

'Cause you gotta get 'em. You gotta get 'em in your possession first.

Fall back.

You better fall back. You gotta get 'em on yourself.

So I gotta tell you.

Bring your pressure down. I'm gonna be in that room right there like, believe that. You do what you gotta do. 'Cause I got communication with her mother. I got my results. I greatly appreciate it.

Yeah. So you have your results. You know this is your child.

Yes, sir.

You're gonna step in, right?

Of course.

Okay then. I mean, this is now the defining moment. You're seeing this, you understand this is his child. It's now time for him to step up. I will also say to you that you have to recognize patterns as a young woman. Just watch this behavior as well. Jeffrey, what I'm gonna tell you this is that we do understand that the most important thing here is Violet. But as I've told people, my concern on this show is always about children and the children that's in us because those are what I'm always concerned about. That's why I always see people's side and see it fair. And what is really clear to me here is that not only did we get vindication for Violet and Violet knowing who her father is, there's a child, another child on this stage that never got vindication and never got any clarity and never got any healing and that's you. Because I'm watching the behavior with your own mother and this is what really is breaking my heart right here. Because this entire time right here, I would never have thought if I tuned into this show and watched this show, I would never think that you were his mother. I would've thought that maybe you're her mother or you're a friend. I would never think that you were his mother. And that is sad for me because there's a young man right here who has his own pain, has his own issues, and I'm seeing all of it. I'm seeing all of it. And unfortunately, this show's about unfortunately the denying of this paternity, which I wish it wasn't because I wish that you could have had some time to get your healing and your closure.

And you know what? And I'm gonna say this as a man, my son's just, When my first son, his mom, she paid a high price for the things my mom did and things like that.

All these women are paying a high price for this relationship. No, I paid the price. I'm saying.

I paid the price. She gonna pay the price.

She gonna pay the price.

She gonna pay the price.

And the problem is, is that it's sad because you, mom, on this stage right now, it's the truth. Listen, I know that you're thinking that you're supporting this, your grandchild, But the only way to truly support that grandchild is by making sure that your son has the healing that he needs. This is generational. And so if he doesn't heal, it passes down to her. And I'm watching a child right here who never got the chance to heal. And the fact that even when this was up, you were screaming in your son's face like, "You are, I knew it." That's, he needs comforting, he needs understanding, he needs to know he's gonna be supported right now. So what I'm gonna tell you right now is that you got your answers. I pray to God that you step apart and do what's right for this child because this child has special needs and she's gonna need that support. But I'm also gonna invite you two back to this show. And if y'all want another moment with me alone where we're not dealing with this, where you have stepped up and done what you need to do, because until you heal this relationship, every woman you come across is gonna have to deal with this. So if you really wanna be a better man and you really wanna be a better father, come back to the show and I can help y'all figure this out. All right, I wish you the best of luck.

Thank you.

Good luck, y'all. So Jeffrey came on my show to solve a DNA mystery, but there was a lot more to this story. Take a look at it.

Yes, man! How did you know that was your baby? She looked just like me. You knew that was your baby? She looked just like me. Don't tell me to get off the page 'cause I'm about to do the work, probably take care of her. No. You ain't take care of your 12.

What you mean?

Your 12. You didn't give me the chance. You ain't take care of your 12 children.

You ain't give me the chance.

What are you talking about? No, you gotta get him in your possession first. You better fall back. You gotta get him on yourself.

This entire time right here, I would never have thought that you were his mother. Why do you think your mother's involved in this?

My mother wasn't involved with me. My mother lost custody of me numerous occasions because of her beating me. I have epilepsy because of her. My mother has been a substance abuser for the past 30 years. I was there, I was present for everything she's done. Done, you know, she's the reason I'm on my toes the way I am. And I hate that I'm an adult, she's still doing the same thing.

Listen, I know that you're thinking that you're supporting your grandchild, but the only way to truly support that grandchild is by making sure that your son has the healing that he needs. This is generational. And so if he doesn't heal, it passes down to her. He needs comforting, he needs understanding, he needs to know he's gonna be supported right now. But I'm also gonna invite you two back to this show. Because until you heal this relationship, every woman you come across is gonna have to deal with this. Come back to the show and I can help y'all figure this out. All right. Jeffrey and his mother Tracy are back to see if they can work through their unresolved issues. So everyone please welcome Jeffrey to the show. Hey Jeffrey, how you doing?

Can I have a hug?

How you doing? Give me a hug, brother. Thank you for taking me up on my offer I appreciate it. Yeah. So tell me, why did you wanna come back?

I got a lot to say.

I got things to get off my chest. I'm 32 now.

This has been happening as long as I can remember. It's overwhelming and nobody really knows my story.

I know today you want your mom to apologize. What is it that you want her to apologize for? I've always been mistreated.

I've always been mistreated. I only get happiness out of her. If she's intoxicated.

I see you getting emotional. What's making you emotional right now? It's all good. No, it's all good. You know, it's always been that way.

I've always been her ride or die, but beneficial in her ways. And I've been fighting for this relationship and trying to keep everything, you know what I'm saying? And I just can't find what's missing no matter how hard I try.

Yeah. Like why doesn't she give you the love that you want?

Right.

Tell me about your childhood.

My childhood. When I was 6 years old, I had seen my mom only a couple times and she has a sister who took us in and later on we were adopted by my grandma. But things that happened before then, you know, example, my mom went to rehab. You know, while I was with my aunt and she met a man there, she got married and we were so happy for her. And in my head I'm thinking my mom's gonna be different. She's not gonna be abusive to me anymore. She's not gonna do substance. She's not gonna be a prostitute no more. But you know, it's just, she's still the same person.

She was, is?

Is.

Okay. You know, it's just repeated behavior.

Like as long as I can remember when she fell short, even when I knew she wasn't living right, but I didn't want people in our business, I had her back. My relationship with her is still not easy because every time I allow her back in, like the smallest detail, if she can take it and run with it and destroy me, she'll do it.

Got it. Tell me something about the seizures that you used to have.

Okay.

Did you tell my producer she caused those seizures?

Yeah, she did. I got sent to a neurologist. They told me where it came from. They're like, "Anybody hit you in your head?" And things like that. And I was like, "Yeah, yeah, my mom did it for years." She's like, "That's where it comes from." So to this day I have migraines, I have seizures, I take medication for it. I try to keep myself stress-free.

Got it. Did she testify against you?

Yes.

Yeah.

Okay, this is what happened. I got with someone and you know, we went through a little something. I was young at that time. It was my first relationship and we ended up losing my first child and we got into—

When you say lost your first child, do you mean that they passed away or that you lost them to the system?

To the system.

Okay, got it. I wanna be clear. And how old were you at this time? I was about 20, 21. 21 years old. Okay.

My last day of the trial, I remember the prosecutor said, Do you have any more witnesses? And then it was like, no, no, no. And then they was like, wait, the state has one. I'm like, the trial's over. Like, what's going on? And my mom walks through the door. High as a kite. It made me so mad. I never thought she would do that to me because I mean, you didn't make these efforts with us. How did I get there?

Literally.

How did I get to court? How did I know they was going to court?

I hear your mother in back. Do you feel like she's to blame for how you treat women?

Yeah.

Do you still love your mother?

No. I barely know her. Every time I let her in my life, she always does something for me to let her go again. This time she decided, you know, why would you come through My other child, when you put me through hell with these three. He gave me that number.

You didn't help us. Listen, we're just gonna go ahead and do this because hearing her scream backstage doesn't help us any. So I think it's time to hear from your mother and hear what she has to say. So everyone please welcome Tracy to the show. Hey.

Are you serious? I'm the victim of the what? You came and picked me up to go to court with y'all. I never got subpoenaed. I walked in the courtroom with you. I dropped you in for your children. No, time out. Your children. When it first started, I invited you. When it first started, and then she talked about that. She talked about that. Let me talk. Because my son told those people he didn't want his child with me. All because of her past. They weren't looking at my past, but who I am today. I'm a changed person. Mm-hmm. I'm a changed person.

So you feel like he set you up by saying, "I want her around," and then would cut you off?

Yes.

Okay. Yes.

And that hurted me.

Why would he do that? Tell me, why would you do that?

I don't know. I'm gonna say it. I don't know. I'm gonna keep it this simple. I'm sorry. I'm gonna keep it this simple. The same reason why my mama came with Stephanie and not her son. The last, first appearance. You see what I'm saying here? I already have the whole world against me. You know, I'm going through so much, she knows all about it. And I'm gonna rephrase what she just said. You know why he going through so much? Hold on, hold on, just give me one second.

You put yourself through that.

I'm not putting myself through that. Every woman that he meet, he beats. And they lose a lot. They job, they kids, they house, they everything. And I warned them. That's how his daddy was.

Is that why you single him out and like the way that you feel about him?

So I wasn't no victim.

Is it because you feel like he reminds you of your ex, of his father? Does he remind you?

Every spittle. Every spittle.

Everything. I'm sorry.

Again, you know what? He always want a pat on the back on everything that he do, even when he right and he wrong. And when I let him know that he wrong, I'm the victim. I'm the victim. Oh, you don't know my mama, but I'm one of them. How I got deaf? Domestic violence. How he got deaf? Domestic violence on his daddy. That ain't why he have seizures. He have seizures because—

I'm gonna be honest.

Let me tell you why. Taking unprescribed medication when he was a child. That's why he was catching seizures. So that didn't come from—

Well, that right there, he would have needed supervision as a child, and that means as a mother, you got to supervise him. Yeah, and that's insane.

I came here to get this story out. I don't care what she says. Let me tell you something about my mother. My mother would know that we're being mistreated. People would mistreat us because we're her children. Just like that. We don't know why, it's always been happening. And she's never stuck up for us. That's a lie. She's never stuck up for us. That's a lie. Let me tell you something else about my mother. My mother will literally beat me to death, smallest things in the world. This is why we got taken away.

I was bruised from head to toe.

Boy, that boy is lying on that TV. So why didn't I go to jail for all of these things that my son is saying on this TV live? I am aware of the fact that I was 24 years old because of this woman. Why didn't I go to jail? And it was because of a bruise. Tell me that. Okay, just answer this question. Why did we get taken away from you twice then? Drugs. That was part of it. When she got high, when she got drunk, She turned to me. She always talking about my dad, and she beat the hell out of me all the time. Oh my God, that's— she used to beat me so much. Don't you believe that? God, well, you better stop trying to make yourself look good. Clean your heart, man. Listen, listen, man, clean your heart.

One thing about me—

oh my God, you need to clean your heart. So why didn't you go to jail? I never lied on this lady right here. I didn't go to jail. Lemme tell you what did happen to you. You got your kids taken away, they put you back in rehab. Listen, 2 years ago, 3 years ago.

Hey, Jeffrey, you need to get both of you, you gotta calm down.

Who was going to the AA program with me? So when she's come to my house.

Tracy, can I ask you this? Because I hear what you're saying.

Oh my God. Tracy, I hear what you're saying. You don't say every time when you get ready to lose your children, she dropped my brothers and sisters on me. The last time I broke up with her, she get in trouble like I ever be. She always turn into me, I always gotta rescue her. I've been rescuing her since I was a little boy and I'm still doing it. I always try to make you look like a king and you ain't nothing but a queen. That's your name though. A king don't beat no queen. That's all you do is beat women to make yourself look good. What your daddy ever did for you? Nothing, you either. You ain't never did nothing for me. I gave you birth. I gave you birth. I tried to make you a man, but you always want to be a boy. You ain't make me a man. Don't get it wrong. You ain't make me a man. That's all you wanted to do was be a man. That's all you ever wanted to do. That's it. And I'm tired. I'm tired of fucking beat up ass. I'm ready to go home.

What I witnessed immediately is that there has been so much pain on your end and on his end. Both of y'all have had a lot of pain. And I can even hear from the abuse that you went through from his father.

It's crazy. It really is.

As much as you're saying that the things that he went through are lies, he also has some truth. And so a child would not just be removed if there wasn't things. And yes, you said there was addiction, But there might have been abuse that you might not have remembered. There might have been abuse from his father and that's why they took him out. But what I'm asking you to do in this moment is just to say, you know what? Yes, you were abused. Because sometimes that pain that sticks with us as children, the same pain that's sticking with you, because I see it with you. You still in pain from all the stuff that happened to you as a young woman. But what you can do on this stage is listen to what he's saying. What he's been through. Can you do that for me?

Yeah.

If you feel like you wanna scream, I want you to squeeze my hand. Squeeze it as hard as you can. Squeeze it, squeeze it, squeeze it, squeeze it, squeeze it. There you go. No, I want you. No, because I'd rather you be good. 'Cause I'd rather you give me that pain versus you giving it to him.

Okay.

Okay?

Okay.

All right, so let's do this. Thanks. We understand the disputes and where your memories and her memories differ. And what I helped your mother understand is that right now, 'cause she does want a relationship with you, she said y'all had a great relationship this summer and she wants it back. And so I've asked her two things, to listen to you and to take accountability. And if there's something that she feels like is a different memory, instead of going at you, she gonna hold my hand and she's gonna let me receive it. I can receive that. Because what you need right now is you need just to say your piece. But what I'm asking you is that you have to be calm in saying your piece, okay?

Okay.

You understand?

Yes, sir.

You can do that?

I can. Awesome.

Give it to me. You can tell her what you're feeling. Okay.

I've always tried so hard to prove myself to you. I feel like you really crossed the line with my children, even with Stephanie, because before I gave you that number, I said, "Have my back." Now I'm gonna tell you something really quickly, okay?

'Cause this is one of the things I noticed. There was a pattern. Both times that you said your mother crossed the line with the children, you invited her into that boundary. If I know somebody, the first time I invite in and I say, "Come in my house," and they wreck my house and now I have the chance to be upset. But if you then say a second time, come in and they wreck your house again, now you gotta take accountability out to your own. And so now I'm not saying that that's what she did, by the way, I'm not saying that's what you did. But what I'm saying to you is you can't keep bringing that up because what that does is takes away from your accountability in your own life, in your own situations. So what we've talked about backstage is the solution for that is next time The next time you say, "Mom, I have something going on with my kids and I need you to come and get involved," her response is gonna be?

No.

No. Because now there's a clear boundary on both of y'all. Now keep going on with what you need to say.

I'm not responsible for what my dad did. And I just, I wanna be able to trust you.

That's a start. [Speaker:KARAMO] Okay, that's a good start. Now we talked about this before a little bit, and I talked to your mother about this. She went through many years of abuse starting at 14 with your father. And so there is a lot of things where unfortunately the kid in her does try to reconcile the things she went through and she sees it in you. There's no reason you should be sitting on this stage today with these abuse from your ears, the hearing all the things, No reason. I know what happened to you and I'm sorry. And somebody should have been there to do that for you. But at the end of the day, if you really want him to be a better man, you gotta compare him to better mans. You can't keep telling him he's a man that you don't like. What is one thing you need an apology for that you feel that could I can help y'all sit on the path to start going towards a day where you feel like you can show up with her.

I apologize for everything, everything that I did wrong to you. What I said, where I wasn't there for you, to comfort you, to shelter whenever you think that I needed to be there. I apologize. Forgive me.

Can you accept what your mother has said? Yes. You can accept it? Can I get a hand? Now I'm not gonna even pretend on this stage that this is healed. Hopefully what you've gotten is a couple steps where I see your growth, I see what you've done here today as a mother. And I appreciate both of you for being open. Okay? I appreciate both of y'all, seriously. First step. I'm gonna keep checking up on y'all 'cause I wanna see y'all continue to heal. All right? Okay, so tell me, why are you here?

I'm here because to my family, it's been a joke, everything. Basically, oh, he may be your dad, he may not be your dad. Oh, you don't know who your dad is. Just joking. And I need to know who I am to tell my children who they are. I have Gerald. He's in my life because him and my mom are together. My kids call him grandpa, which, is he their grandpa? Is he not their grandpa?

Mm-hmm.

I need to know who I am.

So growing up, you did not know who your father was?

Growing up, I knew what they said.

Okay, who they said?

Roger's your dad.

This is a gentleman named Roger?

Gentleman named Roger. Is my dad. That's what I know. He wasn't never around. He wasn't a dad that was there. It wasn't like, hey dad, let's go to the store. That wasn't happening. I would say the last time I seen him, I was 4. Then I didn't see him or hear from him until again, I was 14. And then throughout all of that, rewind back to when I was 7, Gerald was dating my mom. They broke up. He would still come around, take me to get ice cream.

Yeah.

Take me to the movies. And then I had to be about maybe 16 to 18. I don't really remember how old I was. And my Aunt Juliette was like, "No, it's not a joke. Gerald's your dad." And I'm like, "Whoa, why am I just learning this? Why am I just knowing this?" Like, that hurts.

Yeah.

'Cause here I am thinking that Roger's my dad. And he just was a dad that didn't wanna be involved, but maybe he treated me that way because he didn't think he was my dad.

Yeah.

So that hurts.

Of course, I can see the pain coming from that.

And then it's still a situation of Gerald, if you really felt you were my dad, why were you in and out? You could've did way more.

So, so yeah. So Julie, your mom's best friend, is the person who told you that Gerald could be your father?

Julie is the one that said, I always heard it from other family members, but Julie is the one that was like, no, it's true, he's really your dad. Look at y'all, look at him, look at, you know, me, you and him together, y'all are similar, y'all act alike. And I'm just like, no, and then my husband kept saying it. Yeah, like, if you look at me and him, it's like, I see it.

So this is your husband.

This is my husband.

Your mom.

My mom and Gerald.

And Gerald, okay.

And I see my face mixed between the two of them. I don't feel like I ever looked like Roger.

Yeah.

I don't, always felt like I looked like him.

So what does your mother Carol have to say about all this?

She just really doesn't say anything too much. Her whole, like, which hurts, 'cause it's like, I wanna know who I am.

Yeah.

So for you to not say anything, I would rather you say, to me, even if you wanted to wait till I turned 18 and say, hey, I don't know. But it's like you just not acknowledged it. I feel how she probably feels like I was a good mom, so it really doesn't matter. But it does, it does, it does.

Of course it does.

It does. I don't feel like I know who I am. I don't feel like I know who I am. And I feel like I would know who I am if I knew who my dad was. I feel like I would treat Gerald differently if he was my dad. I feel like if Roger was my dad in the situation, I would've treated him differently the time that I did get to spend with him, 'cause he passed on and it's like, I didn't even appreciate, like, I didn't take the time to think of him passing on because I didn't know if he was my dad. So it's like, maybe if he is my dad or if he was my dad, I think I'm gonna feel different about him passing 'cause I didn't even acknowledge it because it was like, eh.

Yeah, the stakes are high for you right now.

This is something that's been sitting heavy on me since I became an adult.

Let's hear what Tawana's Aunt Julie has to say. Thanks for being here, Julie.

Thank you for me being here.

So what do you have to say about all this?

My point of view, I think Joe is her father, not Roger. Because him and Cal was more closer than Roger was. Roger went there. But you could have been said that, Aunt Juliette. It was like, you are my Aunt Juliette, you are her best friend. So I hold you accountable too because you could have been pulled me to the side as an adult and said, I'm not joking, I think he really is your dad. I should not be sitting here on a Karamo show asking who my dad is. That's true, that's true, and I'm very sorry that I didn't tell you when I was supposed to tell you. Truly. That was your mother's job to tell you about your father, who was your father and who wasn't your father.

Tawana grew up believing another man was her dad. Before we meet Gerald, listen to what he had to say about all of this.

This whole paternity situation started with Tawana's mother back in 1986.

When Carol was pregnant with Tawana, we were broken up.

She didn't tell me that she was pregnant. Carol had another man believe that he was Tawana's father. I missed out on the beginning of Tawana's life, but I have made up for it in the long run.

Ever since Tawana was 7 years old, I have been a great father to her.

Tawana had thought another man was her dad, but me, I never believed it.

When I took Tawana to church, my family had said that Tawana resembles me.

When Walter asked me to take a DNA test about 3 years ago, I told him no. I don't need a piece of paper to verify who my child is. When Karamo tells me I'm Tawana's father, I'm gonna do a backflip.

All right everyone, please welcome Gerald to the show. Thank you for being here. So listen, I gotta start off. You did not know about Carol's pregnancy? No, I did not. I was away for a while and I didn't know anything until I came home.

When I came home, I found out there was a child in my life.

So did you ever tell Tywanna that you were her father?

Oh no.

No.

Oh no.

No.

No, no, never did. And that thing, a good father?

We bonded when you were small, 7 years old when I met y'all, you came to prison. The first time I fed you with a spoon when you was a kid. And I knew then, You was mine.

I could feel it. I don't have no one to tell me what to do. Yeah, that's what you keep saying. I don't need a paper. I want clarity and that should have happened years ago when you found out. Years ago that should have happened.

So Gerald, because if you're, it's all rosy now sitting on the show and saying, listen, yeah, she's my daughter. But if you thought she was your daughter, why didn't you clear all this up before?

Exactly.

Because you hear her saying she's been in pain for all these years 'cause she doesn't know who she is. You could have solved that immediately. I could have had, but I didn't know how to go about doing that because her mother had her believing that Roger was her father.

So I could not jump in there and say, well, hell no, he's not, I'm your father. That would've been confusing. But you did eventually.

So why didn't you get a DNA test?

Why? That's what they wanted to do, so I did it for them.

I mean, I thought before, you're doing it now, but why didn't you do it before?

I had one 3 years ago to take.

You took a DNA test 3 years ago?

No, I didn't take it. I didn't take it. I felt it had no need to take it. He says what he says all the time. I don't need a paper to tell me. I don't need a paper to tell me that you're mine. But I need a paper. I need that clarity.

All right, listen everyone, there's one more person that we need to meet in this story, and that's Tywana's husband, Walter. Everyone, please welcome Walter to the show as well.

Hey.

How you doing, Karamo? All right. Good to meet you. Hey. So Walter, I wanna go right into you. What happened years ago? Oh, 3 years ago, we could have made it very clear that this would've been over with, but we here now. You didn't wanna take it. I had to spend my money just to get it done, and you said no. So you were the one who spent your money to get this DNA test 3 years ago that he denied?

Yes.

More than one time we sat there, he cried himself and like, "I know she my daughter, I just don't wanna take it." I'm like, "So why would you let me spend my money to take the test, buy the test if you don't wanna do it?" So I'm like, "Why?" Walter, who do you blame for all this? I blame 'em both. Aunt Juliette too, she is there. She was there when this was going down. You put yourself in the middle of business. You put yourself in the middle of business.

Why?

You put yourself in that, you knew.

It wasn't my problem to tell her anything, that's her mother's doing. Then you wouldn't have said anything. That's her mother's doing, your mother's supposed to, it ain't my fault, it's not my fault. But I did tell her.

Yeah, you did.

I did tell her.

But years later.

But her mother never told her.

Years later, that's years.

Well, we here now, right?

Jarrod, I'm gonna ask you a real question.

We here now, we trying to find out who's the dad and who ain't the dad.

Gerald, I got a real question for you because I heard you, Walter just said you cried one of the times when y'all were supposed to take the DNA test 3 years ago. What were you afraid of in that moment? 'Cause that was fear. Those were tears of fear.

Of not being the father. So you have doubts? I don't have doubts. One second you say you don't need a paper, but then one second you said you cried because of the fear. It's either you don't need a paper and you sure, Or you're not sure, just like me, sister.

Because, Walter, it's okay if you're not sure. You had the woman you love tell you that another man could be the father. It would make sense of why you would be hesitant as well. The same thing, the same trauma she's experiencing, you're experiencing a different way. It's a lot worse for her as the child in this situation, but I can understand. It's like you show up and it's like, well, you ain't the dad, Roger's the dad. Oh, so now it's like, well, What happens? Because what happens to you if this result comes back and you're not the father? What does this mean to you? Well, that mean nothing's gonna change. I would still love her as a child of mine and I would still love my grandkids. All right, Tywanna, you have waited 30 years to get to the bottom of all this. Are you ready to finally get the truth?

Yes. I'm ready.

I'm ready. All right, good.

I'm ready.

Well, listen, I have the card right here. That has the outcome. This DNA outcome is going to either give you clarity or is going to unfortunately still keep you lost. Are you ready for this moment?

Honestly, I'm ready. I need to know. I need to know who I am.

Gerald, are you ready for this as well?

Every day.

'Cause this is 35 years. Yeah. All right, well, here's the card. If you could please read the results out when you're ready.

I just need a second.

Yeah.

'Cause this here is my life.

Yeah.

This determines who I am. This determines if he's my dad or if I'm still just gonna be lost.

What does it say?

It says Jeru is not your father. I just need a minute.

Take your time.

I'm sorry. Well, we all hurt.

Yeah.

We all hurt.

So while they're back there talking, who do you think could be her father?

Well, I said he was, but evidently he's not. So Roger must be the father.

Is it Roger's passed away? I'm gonna go backstage and just check on them, just to make sure. All right. I'll be right back. Here, I'm coming to check on you. Take a seat, take a seat, take a seat. Listen, I'm gonna tell you this right now. I know you gotta take a second and I know you feel really lost right now.

Yeah.

I want you to focus on one thing first. It's that you do have people who love you. Walter's out there, he loves you, he's gonna be there to support you. And you're not as lost as you think because you have your mother and you have these kids who still, you are the matriarch of the family. You have started to give them clarity, you've built a life. But I can support you on this journey. We have a whole team here who can support you to get these answers if you want the support.

I do.

Because you don't deserve to feel lost. No. But just know this man still got up and walked with you. You still have the love of a man who loves you and supports you. He came right here. Like he didn't have to get up. He could stay on the couch. He got up with you because he loves you.

Yeah.

So as you're on this journey right now, just know that there are people that love you who want to give you something, but I can get you the answers. What is going through your mind right now? Oh. Yeah.

I'll be okay.

Do you think that you would be able to talk to Carol and help encourage her to get some answers? For sure. Because Carol is the, your mother's at the root of all this. She should have, she got you involved, she got you involved in this. That's where the answers need to come from. No more. We are going to scour and we are gonna figure out who your father is.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Yeah, listen, we're gonna be here for you.

Thank you so much.

Listen, y'all, I really meant it when I told Tywana I would help her on this journey. So everyone, please welcome Tywana back to the show.

Hey, friend.

You're so cute.

Thank you.

I already hugged her backstage. I ran up to her and was like, hey, my love.

Yeah, thank you. I'm making it. I just wanna say thank you because when you told me you would help me, I was just like, yeah, okay. But when you actually called me back, like, we ready to help you, we wanna help you. Yeah, that touched my heart.

I got you, sis. I got you, boo.

I really do appreciate it.

We got you. We got you here. We got you here. Because to be very honest with you, it broke my heart that, here you go, love.

Thank you.

It broke my heart that you, You know, you felt lost.

Yeah.

I just, I didn't want that for you. You didn't deserve that. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So let's get into it. Who are you here with today?

Today I'm here with Geneva, who could possibly be my sister. She's Roger's daughter. And I have my son in the audience somewhere. And basically I'm happy that she was able to say, yeah, I'll help you to see if Roger is your dad. I'm hoping the results are ended today and I will know who my dad is because I'm just still left in the cloud and I just want the answers that I need that I'm happy that you're helping me find.

Yeah, so this was another man that your mother had said could potentially be your father.

So originally, as long, like I said, and before, all I knew was Roger. Roger's your dad, he just wasn't there. He just walked outta your life when you you were 4, which I remember him going out the door with a radio of mine's and me crying for it. And then as an adult, I remember it was like 2014, my mom had got in contact with him because I was having some living situation issues and she got in contact with him. He was like, yeah, I got a place in Georgia, come on down to Georgia. So I went down to Georgia, I stayed with him for about 30 days. That was an experience. When he passed away, I didn't go to the funeral or anything. I just didn't feel like his family really felt like I was his daughter. They didn't include me.

Well, listen everyone, I think it's time to talk to Geneva about her perspective on all of this. Joining us now from Decatur, Georgia is Geneva. Friends, welcome Geneva to the show. Karamo, thank you so much for being here. Why did you agree to take the DNA test?

Well, Tawana called me and she said something about, well, I just found out that Roger may possibly not be my father and do I mind doing a DNA test for her? And right away I was just like, yes. I would do it. That's just the type of person that I am. I would do it. I was quite shocked when she said that because I've always just assumed she was my sister.

Yeah.

So I was taken a little back, but she told me that, you know, she just wants to find out who she is. And I feel like everybody should know who they are, so.

Agreed. Geneva, I have to ask you, what was your relationship growing up like was it like with Roger, your father?

Our families are entwined a little bit. My grandmother and both of my grandmothers were best friends. Roger had his demons, you know, he was not there for us. I don't really ever remember him being in my household to begin with, but we remained, I always knew he was my father. When he could come around, he did come around. That's what it was, he wasn't there, for me, so I know he wasn't there for Tywana as well. And that's just how it is, you know?

Yeah, so both of you had that same similar experience where both of you had basically abandonment at younger ages.

Yes, yes.

Geneva, did you know that your grandmother Grace denied Tywana?

No, I did not. As far as I was concerned, it's just, she was just never around. And it was kind of understandable that she's not around because of my dad's situation, you know. Um, technically, I probably wouldn't have been around either if my families weren't so close, right? Even though my dad, uh, Roger, wasn't there, I still remained going over to visit, you know, uh, family time, things like that, vacations. So, right, actually, that's the part I didn't get, you know. Nobody came and picked me up. Maybe it was because of the simple fact that Y'all were, you, your mom, like you said, and Roger and your grandmother. I didn't even know that your grandmother and Grace were friends. That's something I just learned just now. But see, you did get that cookout. Yeah, but that was, that was, that's your mother's responsibility. My mom actually making sure that we still had a relationship. And to tell you the truth, Roger was never even included. You know, so like, that's just how it was. I mean, I've always known about your mom. I've always known about you my whole life. So I wasn't, I didn't go, half of the stuff you don't know, I don't know either. Geneva, but during those years, did you get picked up? Did you go to Grace's house? I don't know. I know we had some conversations before and I feel like we could have had more. The only time that would ever happen, honest, is if my, if my aunt would come pick me up. But why she wouldn't come pick me up? I was begging. You get what I'm saying? You got picked up. Why not me? We both lived in the Bronx. Exactly. But what kind of relationship did your mother have with them? I would not even have a relationship with them if my mother didn't have a relationship with them. Right. If they weren't best friends already, I would not have been in that situation either. And that's the sad part. Because when my mom broke up from him, Yeah, like Grace never denied you. Okay, I feel like she did. So where was the part about your light skin and, and your dark skin and Roger's dark skin? What does complexion have to do with it? That came from— because I don't do the light skin, dark skin. But Grace did. But what I'm saying is she never said that to me, right? I've never sat in her house and heard her say that. You are his daughter and you are my sister. That's not something she would say to you directly. I don't think that's something that she would say, oh, well, Geneva, you know, Tawana's light-skinned, so she might not be your sister. I don't think she would say that to you. So you have these doubts because of your family. I've never heard anybody say that, honest to God. Since I've lived here and she was alive and everybody was living, I go over there, they ask me, have I heard from you? Because me and you started having a connection. My thing is, clearly you've known about Gerald and stuff your whole life. The stuff you said on that first show and the stuff you said now has been totally different, and I was a little upset about it. Wait, wait, wait, what's different about it in your opinion? Okay, the first show I recall you saying you didn't talk to him or see him till you was 16. I stayed with him for 30 days, and if I stayed with him for 30 days, I wouldn't stay with nobody that I I mean, I'm just saying you still stayed with him. I never said I didn't stay with him. Enough to— why would you stay with a total stranger? Because my mom said that was my dad. At that time, I didn't have any place to stay. So the offer wasn't— I mean, I understand that. I understand that. But you also said you had a relationship with Gerald the whole time, right? I did. Growing up. Okay. So you had two people that you considered was your father. I never knew that. If he was alive right now, he wouldn't have never known. He knew that? You think he didn't know that? He knew that you was not his child. When he talked to me on the phone and he was saying how he was just so happy to get his daughter back, I think by then he had connected with you first. Yeah, I remember that. Okay, I say that to say I never knew that there was a possibility of you never to be my sister until you told me that on that phone.

Well, that's one thing right here because I'm hearing a lot of on what the effects of the trauma from Roger on both of y'all. And I think what's happening right now is you two as women are like now trying to put pieces together and it's sort of like, well, I didn't know and you didn't know and I didn't know and I didn't know. Which I think we can all agree that Roger didn't do a good job of informing either of you or being there for either of you. And that is the point.

I can agree on that.

And I think that's the reason why you didn't go to his funeral is because you're like, I don't know this man. All I'm still hearing is the abandonment from Roger that y'all two are taking out on each other. Because the thing is, is that at the end of the day, I need you two to understand that this is about two people who were both abandoned. You both were hurting and yet you're both looking at each other and saying, why didn't you make a better decision and be there for me? Why wasn't I picked up? Why weren't you there for me? Why didn't you? You're saying like, I'm not your sister, we talked. You're saying this. But the thing is, is that she's just telling you right now, Geneva, that she didn't know how to be there because she didn't know, she was abandoned. But when people have felt abandoned, they make choices from that abandonment. Just the same way you're making choices and your choices are not wrong, Geneva, and your choices weren't wrong either. You are making choices to try to protect yourself and you were trying to protect yourself from a man that's no longer here. And that's why it's important that this relationship gets mended and we get answers if you two are actually are actually sisters. Are you two actually ready to find out if you're sisters?

I am.

Geneva, are you ready?

Yes.

Listen, I know there's a ping that's going on that we do need to get to. Let's listen to a message that we received from Tywana's mother, Carol.

I told Tywana when she was little that Roger was always her father. She thought Skeeter was her father because Grace, who is Roger's mother, always told him that Tywana was not his daughter. I myself am 1,000% sure that Roger is Tywanna's father.

Okay, we're ready.

Yeah.

Before I give you these, I do wanna bring your son down who's in the audience and I want him to be here with his mom. You wanna come down here and be with your mama right now? Come on, look impressive in your polo.

How you doing, man?

The reason I'm bringing them down here is because I wanna make sure that not only do you see that you have support and love from me, but you've started an amazing family. You've created as a strong woman, even through your trauma, a young man that looks at you and he doesn't have any questions. But the time is here. Are you ready?

As ready as I'm gonna be.

All right, here you go.

OK. It says Geneva is your sister. Oh, girl.

That's your Auntie Geneva, by the way. Good. Okay, how are you feeling?

Relieved.

Yeah.

Still confused. I don't know why that rumor went around that Gerald was my dad when Roger was my dad the whole time. Just wish I could take some time back.

Yeah, you gotta release that guilt and I'm gonna tell you why. Because somebody was there with him and she's saying to you that she didn't even have that relationship. So what happens sometimes if we get plagued with the what if what could have happened, what should have happened. But she's telling you she lived the alternate life that you're thinking in your mind, well, I didn't live it and she didn't have it. Am I right, Geneva?

Yeah, exactly.

So right now you can release that. The thing is, is what gift you did get was a relationship with Gerald who I met, who did love you, who was there for you. So the universe constructed something for you in this moment, we don't know why, for you to at least get that because if Roger was around, unfortunately you wouldn't have had it. And the reason we know that is because Geneva, I'm so sorry that you had to deal with that as a child. Geneva's telling you right now she didn't get it. But what, who can be there for you and who has been trying to be there for you and you said you're gonna try even harder is this woman right here.

Here I am.

Take those words I just said That's what I said. Take those words. You go hang with Auntie Geneva. You ready for Auntie Geneva? You wanna say something to your Auntie Geneva now? This your Auntie?

I just feel like it's different now that I know that I have like, I have an aunt and I have cousins that I don't know yet and I'd like to know them now. Yeah.

You excited to meet them? Yeah. Yeah. All right, my next guest Shamika went viral on TikTok last Sunday after she caught her husband Ifeanyi at a hotel with another woman. On their anniversary, Shamika and Ifani are here to get my advice on how to save their marriage. But first, let's take a look at what Shamika posted on TikTok.

This is your brother with another bitch, with another bitch in his car. Another bitch in his car. Listen to me, don't come back to my house Don't come back to me. Part 2 of my cheating ex-husband. You at a hotel with another bitch. With another bitch. He on a visa, bitch. Guess what? You wanna go to Nigeria? Back to Nigeria. Ooh.

Many of us have seen that on TikTok. Everyone, please welcome Shamika. Hi, Karamo. How are you doing, beautiful?

Take a seat.

All right, so I just wanna start right off 'cause we've seen the video, we know you caught him. Where did he say he was going originally?

He originally told me that he was gonna go to the bank to go get money for rent. And then he said that he was gonna go to the smoke shop and I was like, okay, just go. He said he's gonna be right back home and I was like, okay. But it took a little too long so I was like, let me check where he at.

Yeah, so why did you post a video?

I posted a video because I was really upset with him. I initially posted it on his page and then I posted it to my TikTok account.

Got it. So is this the first time he's cheated on you?

No, it's not the first time he cheated on me. This is the second time that he's cheated on me. The first time was last year during our, well, close to our anniversary, a couple weeks after our anniversary.

And that first time, the first anniversary when you think he cheated on you, did he admit to cheating on you?

He admitted to cheating on me, but then he quickly took it back after I got upset.

Got it.

And then he tried to play it off as a joke. And then I happened to record him that time and I let my friend my friends listened to what he was saying and they were like, "Oh, okay, he was just joking, he was just joking." But that woman's intuition, baby, no.

So I wanna get a timeline of your relationship. So how long have you been together?

We've been together since the end of 2018. Okay. But I've met him since 2016, but we didn't get married until 2019.

Okay, so you knew each other in 2016. 2018, you started dating. Was he here? Was he—

He was in Nigeria.

He was in Nigeria.

Yes, he was in Nigeria.

So in 2018, you flew to Nigeria to go see him?

In 2019, I flew to Nigeria. I stayed, we stayed at his sister's house. She just got that house and she let us stay. She's a wonderful person.

Got it.

But she let us stay there. We stayed there for a month and then we decided that we were gonna go ahead and proceed to get married.

And how did you meet in the first place?

We actually met on Facebook. He messaged me and at first I didn't wanna talk to him because I had just got out of another serious relationship. So I told him, we talked, but I told him, I was like, I'm just gonna—

What was it about him that you loved that you said, I wanna do this?

When I first met him, he was sweet, he was kind, he treated me very well.

All right, so we actually have a video from Ifeanyi with his thoughts on your marriage. I wanna take a look at this. My wife Shamika, she caught me in a hotel with another woman. But I wasn't cheating on her. That was my friend's girl. She wasn't mine. At first, I didn't know it was her.

She just came to me like a wild beast trying to destroy my car and all that.

I cheated on Shamika one time, but I had a reason for that.

Whenever Shamika is angry at me, you know, she be always threatening me with, oh, I'm going to send you back to Nigeria.

Always intimidating me with that. And I don't like it. I'm sick and tired of getting so much disrespect from Shamika and her friend. The way it stands right now, you know, I'm fed up.

I'm fed up. That's the way I feel right now.

Shamika, how do you feel about what he just heard?

I feel hurt because like I've told him before, he doesn't give me my time and that's all I ask of him. And like, and a lot of times when I'm trying to talk to him, he's telling me, He's telling me, "Don't disturb my life." And that hurts me and that bothers me. So I'll say little stuff to get back at him.

Such as saying, "I'll send you back to Nigeria." Yeah. I think it's time for all of us to meet Ifeanyi, her husband, don't you think? Everyone, welcome Ifeanyi to the show. There you go, man. Good to meet you.

Good to meet you too.

So you said you weren't cheating at the hotel, so what were you doing? Okay, what actually happened that day, I told her, okay, I wanna go make a withdrawal from the ATM and I want to go to the smoke shop and get some smoke. And she kept calling me, like a few minutes later, I picked up the phone, I told her, listen, I'm coming home, why are you rushing me?

I said, I'm coming home.

And then when I cut off the call with her, a friend of mine called me. He told me the situation he was in. He said, oh, he have this friend that he was giving a ride and his car, something happened to his car. Like, could I come? Because he's taking the girl to a hotel. Should I come home? I should come help him. His story sounds so fishy. No. Like all these details. My homie was driving a girl. "It broke down, I had to pick her up, I don't know what the hell happened." That's what actually happened though. Listen, so, so can I ask you this? When Shamika was calling you, then why didn't you just say, "Hey, a friend of mine said I need to pick up his friend at, you know, and we're gonna be here." She said she was calling you. I answered the call. Yeah, so why didn't you just tell her? I know the kind of person she is.

If I told her, she doesn't wanna like see me with a female.

Or any, like, she doesn't wanna hear. If nothing was going on, most of the time if you pick up a girl that's just a friend, why was she so disrespectful to your actual wife when your wife pulled up? 'Cause normally she would've been like, oh my gosh, there's nothing going on here. I'm so sorry, I know what you're thinking. She was doing like this. She was like in your face. So why would she be doing that if there wasn't something else going on? That wasn't the first encounter. Understand? That was when she just started making the video. So I wanna ask you this. You admitted to cheating on Shamika once before. Yeah. What happened in the past? Okay, to clear that day, that video, I didn't cheat on that girl. If I did, I would let her know. But you did admit to cheating on Shamika in the past, right? Yeah, yeah, I did. So you say that Shamika listens to her friends and doesn't listen to you. Yes. Tell me about that. You know, whenever we have issues in our marriage, instead of both of us to like work it out, she'd be always talking bad about me to her friends. You know, talking down on me. Say, "Oh, he doesn't do nothing for me. He doesn't take care of me. He doesn't love me." You know, badmouthing me to her friends.

So I'm like, why would you be talking about your husband like that? They have their own men.

They don't talk to you about their men like that. So what would you be doing No spoiling your man with your friends. So my producer said that you're angry at Shamika. Why? Yes, I'm angry at her because I've talked to her. In this marriage, you know, I have to bring my own contribution. You know, our marriage doesn't have a structure yet. We live in a family member's house. No, we need to get our own place. I told her, let's get our own place. Let's save up and get our own place. I was putting up money.

Mm-hmm.

She was working, she earned more than me. She wasn't putting anything out.

And I was—

So do you feel used by Shamika? Definitely, I feel used by her. Oh, okay. She be the one stating that I'm using her because she brought me over here. I'm like, okay, the audience, they could reason. I've been putting money out for us to get a place. She went and took that whole money, was fine. Like $1,500. I have saved it like under 2 months. She went and—

wait, let me finish.

She went and took the whole money because she called me at work, she said she needed, um, like $200. I said, okay. I say, okay. She know where I keep my money. I was like, don't touch it, but come, I'll give you myself. Then when I got home, I saw that my bag has been ransacked. She took the money, the whole money. And I called her, she was like, she was laughing.

They say, oh, I'm in a hotel. Oh, I'm just— so you have that kind of money? If I ask you for money, you like I was like, "You asked me for $200." And I said, "When I get home, I'll give it to you. So why would you go take all the money?" Then I cut the call 'cause I was mad.

Were you ever happy in your marriage? I was at first, but right now the way things is going, she's like a dictator in the marriage. She always want me to agree on her terms. If I say, "Oh, I don't like it like that," she's like, "Oh, I'm gonna send you back to Nigeria." This is not like the first time she—

What do you mean no, you don't? That's what you always tell me that.

You always say I'll send you back to your country.

No, it's when you, when I'm sitting here telling you that I wanna spend time with you and then you're telling me to like get outta your face and don't talk to you and tell me I'm disturbing your life. If I was disturbing your life, then why didn't you just stay in Nigeria and leave me alone? Like you don't know how that hurts me. You don't know how that makes me feel. Yeah, that hurts me. This is what he likes to say to me. He says that I can either have money or I can have romance. I can't have both. He can't give me both. Because she always asks for money and you ask for both. I was like, okay, I'll give you everything.

I wanna know from you, do you wanna save your marriage? No, after what she have done to me, she has humiliated me so much. So why would I wanna save a marriage that anytime she get angry, she can't get control of her emotions? So you don't wanna save the marriage, then what do you want? Tell your wife.

I've told her.

2 months ago, she acted the same way. She was like, I told her we went to the court, we got the papers, we filled up the papers for the divorce. Okay, let's go to the court and finalize it. I don't know what she do with the paper. She threw it away. So I'm gonna ask you directly.

Yeah.

Do you want a divorce? I do want a divorce. So you want to be done? Yeah. I don't care if she send me back to my country.

I just want a peace of mind. I just want a peace of mind.

She's not giving me the peace of mind. I'm doing everything for her. You know, I'm not getting that appreciation. You know when somebody do something for you, you give appreciation, that person will want to do more. So you're hearing this directly. He's saying he wants a divorce. Are you processing it? Are you receiving that?

I'm processing.

Yeah.

So that is it.

I told her what I want. I want a divorce in the marriage because I can't live my life like this. Yeah, that is it. That is it. All right, well listen, you've said your piece. You want a divorce, I hear you. Thank you for telling me your story. I really appreciate you. Yeah, thank you. You stay here for a second. He's telling you directly he wants a divorce. Why is it hard for you to accept that? 'Cause I care about him. Yeah. Look at it. Come here, come here, come here, come here, come here. Hold my hand. Come My hand. Come here, come here, come here, come here, come here, come here, come here, come here, come here, come here. I know it's hard. I know, I know, I know. This is killing you. I don't think that you've been in a relationship yet with someone who's given you the love that you deserve. I don't think you've been valued yet. And I think part of the reason that this is hitting you so hard is because you're trying with men who aren't worth trying with. Do you think you've ever gotten in a relationship that you deserve? No. He admitted that he cheated on you. You caught him cheating on you, you put it on TikTok. He's telling you to your face he's divorced. None of that stuff is about you. You flew across the country to find love. You just flew to a man who wasn't the right man for you. So you can cry, mourn this loss, but after this, the real work has to start. The real work has to start of understanding and rebuilding your self-esteem. You hear me? Do you know how to rebuild your self-esteem? You don't. I don't know where to start. You wanna start? You wanna start building your self-esteem? That I can help you with.

Thank you.

Seriously. I wanna make sure after this we're gonna connect and I wanna give you some resources to start building your self-esteem because the more you build your self-esteem and the more you recognize what you don't deserve, the things that should not be happening to you, the things that you should be getting, that's the more you're gonna feel lighter, the more you're gonna change your attitude, the more you're gonna know like this ain't right. So you willing to let me help you build your self-esteem?

Yes.

All right, good. I'm gonna be here for you. All right?

Thank you.

Yeah. Oh my gosh, that started to make me cry. All right, Shamika is back and I can't wait to hear how things have been since the last time she was on my show. So everyone, welcome Shamika to the show. Shamika, my friend, how are you, beautiful?

I'm well, and yourself?

I'm great. I gotta tell you, I've seen that TikTok so many times 'cause obviously we shared it, it went viral again on our page, you know? And then, but for some reason, watching again right now, I almost started crying. I just felt your pain. So what happened after that show?

Well, after that show, we came back home and things still weren't like really too good with us. He was still putting me down a little and stuff. And I was like, you know what? I remember what Karamo told me. I gotta start valuing myself. And I let him go. I sent him on his way.

Good job. Good job. I wanna know, did he try to come back to you? Did he try to come back to you?

He did.

Yeah.

But—

And the reason I asked that question, because I think it's important for women at home who have watched that clip to understand, when he walked off, I knew in an instant, which is why I held you and we talked, that it was performative. It's sort of like, let me make a big grand gesture. Let me show you that I'm the man. And it was an attempt to try to hurt your self-esteem more. And so it makes sense that he came back, but I'm glad you found the courage. Yes.

Thank you, thank you.

Yes, I'm glad, yes. So I heard you had big plans this morning. What were the plans?

Our plans were to go to the courthouse and get the divorce started.

Good job, great.

I'm so excited to be moving on with my life.

And this is on your terms, correct?

Yes.

Yes, good job. So how do you feel about getting the divorce now?

I am excited for this new journey in my life to start a new chapter. I'm excited, like excited, excited.

So do you—

I'm putting myself first, like you said, like I'm just, I'm moving on with my life. I'm happy for yourself though. I'm happy, there's no feelings, there's no feelings for him, no love for him, I'm just going.

So I've heard you said that you've been getting a lot of support from other women in the comments. What have you been hearing or what were you reading?

A lot of women was just being supportive. They were basically saying like they've been through what I've been through and how narcissistic some men can be. And they noticed that about him or whatnot. So they were really supportive in what they were saying. And I was like, it helped me. I didn't feel alone. I felt like people understood where I was coming from.

Excuse me. That's the positive side of social media. Sometimes we always hear about the negative or the bullying and the mean things, but when we see somebody in pain and we see somebody who deserves better. I love that we rally around. And so I'm glad that you had that support. Really, I am. Are you dating again?

I am. I'm dating. I'm getting back out there.

Okay. Tell me a little bit more about this, 'cause you know, I look at you now like we family now, okay? I'm a little bit older, so Uncle Karamo's here. So I need to know who you dating.

We're gonna talk about that next time. I did fall in love.

Okay. Because what I wanna know, I wanna make sure, listen, I know that it, 'cause you weren't here so long ago. I just wanna make sure that you've had proper time to heal. And I encourage you to date, I encourage you to see what's out there, but I wanna make sure that you're looking out for the red flags from the next guy. Because unfortunately when we're coming out of one bad situation and going into another one, there's sometimes our blinders are on and we'll only see the good glossy and we won't be looking for those red flags. So look out, girl. The man that you deserve is out there, but don't turn red flags green, okay?

Yes. You hear me? Yes, I hear you.

Okay, good.

Thank you.

Okay.

I'm ready for a man to treat me right, Karamo.

Okay, listen, once y'all get serious, you need to get, you ain't gotta come on the show, but you gotta gimme a call 'cause I need to scope him out for you, all right? This is how I do for all my girlfriends. I'll be like, bring your man here, let me check him out real quick so I can give you a little tea, okay?

Yes. I just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. Um, I watched that. I go back and watch that last part of that clip when you were talking to me, and it was the first time that I've actually had a male figure, even because I didn't have my father, like, with my— through my life. Yeah. So it meant so much to me just to have you speak so much life into me in that last episode. So I thank you from the bottom of my heart. You are— let me cry again. You are an amazing person.

Oh, you're gonna make me cry.

I love you. I love you so much. Thank you.

I love you, girl. I love you. I really do. I love you. I'm glad I could be here for you, and I'm so proud. I'm so proud of you. And thank you for checking in with me. I love hearing about all of my guests' growth, y'all. Shamika, you just keep going, girl, and keep strong. And I'm gonna check up on you again, 'cause I need to know who this new man is, okay?

Yes. All right, boo.

Take care.

You too, my love.

All right, Shamika, good luck and congrats again. Thank you everyone for being with us. Come back next time, friends, so we can keep talking and growing. I love you all.

Today we're at the courthouse signing our documents for our divorce. I just wanted to Thank you for everything. Thank you for helping us and getting clarity on our relationship and where we need to go. All right, I'm signing. All right, it's done. Thank you.

All right, welcome back to the show, friends. My next guest, Barbara, raises her 16-year-old niece Ayana and is terrified for Ayana's future. Barbara says that her niece hangs out with older men. She disappears for weeks at a time. She says she admits to smoking marijuana, drinking, and even getting into fistfights. And she's recently been kicked outta school. And now Ayonna is pregnant. Barbara called me for my help. Welcome to the show.

Thank you.

Thank you for being here. So Barbara, I can only imagine I can't imagine what you're going through because I know you're stepping in to support your niece and Ayonna sounds like she's having a difficult time right now. So tell me what's going on.

Well, for starters, I did get her at a young age with her mom because her mom actually got caught up in a little mischief and then now she's wrongfully in prison, you know, fighting, trying to get out. And with that being said, Ayonna just basically, just wants her mom. I mean, I got not just Ayanna, she has a younger sister as well. And with that being to say, it's like no matter what I do, the school, CMO, mobile response, or whoever that's involved with Ayanna.

Wow. So Ayanna, this is Ayanna's mom who got 20 years in prison?

That's her. Absolutely.

And so she went in when, how old was Ayanna when her mother went to prison?

8.

8 years old. Okay. So her and her sibling have been missing out on their mother for a long time.

Yes.

Yeah. Okay. And so how does Ayanna lash out at you?

She calls me all kinds of foul names like, fuck you, bitch. I don't have to listen to you. And you know, she's just very aggressive and angry.

Yeah. And what are your type of disciplinary actions?

Oh, well, me, At that age, I take everything from her that she likes.

Do you have contact with Ayonna's mother?

Every day.

You do? Do you tell her what's going on with her?

Every day.

And what does her mom say?

She tries to calm her down too and allow her to know that she'll be home soon.

So how often does Ayonna leave the house and not tell you?

Every day.

Every day.

She would say, "I'll be back." And I wouldn't know when she come back or where she is 'cause I would have to put her into the system as a missing person. So I think I had probably like 8 or 9 write-ups, missing person, because I can't allow her to be gone for so many hours and not report that she's actually gone.

Of course, because you never know if something could actually go wrong.

Absolutely.

So how long would she be gone for? What's the longest amount of time?

2 weeks. 2 weeks. 2 weeks.

So why won't they take her back at school? Because I know she's out of school as well.

Oh, because she actually brought like marijuana to school and the school has a policy to where, you know, as far as drug and alcohol, if you're tested positive, then suspension is in order other than, you know, the regular protocol where, you know, you go into a drug and alcohol program. And I have done that with Ayonna like 4 times, but she wouldn't go to the treatment. So with that, the supervisor was like, she can't come back, that she need patient care.

If a child is doing things like this, it's because they're screaming out. They're screaming out that I need help. I don't think any child is inherently bad. And I think that sometimes we forget that because we get so frustrated as adults. And so it breaks my heart that like this young woman who's screaming out has now got kicked outta school. You know what I mean? And of course once you get kicked outta school, I can understand why she probably doesn't want to go to these other programs with you. Like why she doesn't make that next step. You know, she's, she's probably experiencing some sort of rejection and all these other stuff. Do you have your own kids?

I do.

You do? How old are they?

My oldest just turned 36. Oh wow. On the 4th.

Got it. Okay. Come on, good stuff.

And my youngest is 33.

Okay. Yeah. So you already raised your children per se.

Absolutely.

I mean, this is still your child. You look at it as your child, but yeah. So this is, so you're dealing with new issues with these kids.

Right. It was, you know, me dealing with it okay. But as they got older, I too got older. So now I address things differently and I don't argue with her.

It's not personal anymore.

Yeah. Yeah, you know, if anything, she already knows that I'm more or less set to like just call the police.

I wish that we only didn't have 911. I wish we also had a resource number that we could just call a social worker out because it'd be a lot easier in these situations instead of a police officer coming that a social worker could come and say, hey, let me help you. Someone maybe with some psychotherapy background. But these are my dreams for America. Well, you know. What do you like to do that brings you joy?

Honestly, at this fishing, if we wanna call anything fishing.

Fishing, you like to fish? Yeah. Okay.

Okay, I like that. That's the family hobby.

Yeah, it is. Okay, good to know. Ayanna is feeling a little uncomfortable. She's 16, so we're gonna try to make sure she's all right. Hi, love. You okay?

That's who I talk to.

You nervous? Can I say hello? It's not cameras. You nervous? Yeah, I know. Good. Here, we shake my hand. Nice to meet you, Karamo. You want to come on out? It's gonna be a good conversation. Come on out.

All right, all right.

There you go. There you go.

Woman up.

Yeah, it's gonna be good out here.

All right, everyone say hello.

Everyone give it up for Ayanna.

Come take a seat.

Well, can I have a proper hug now that you came out? Nice to meet you. All right, so we heard a lot about what's going on. I wanna go back a little bit. Why did you feel like you needed to act out?

I don't know. I'm gonna say you acted out because when I lost my mom, I felt like I ain't have nobody, so.

Yeah.

I was just hanging out with the wrong crowds and I thought drugs was a solution.

So you say you don't feel like you have anybody because you lost your mom. Do you feel alone right now?

No, I have my aunt, 'cause our relationship got better. But in the beginning when I was younger, I felt like I didn't have no type of support and stuff.

Yeah. Do you still talk to your mom when things happen and when you're feeling a sort of way?

Well, sometimes, not all the time, 'cause I don't really wanna stress my mom out 'cause I know the predicament she in. But I talk to her about most of my problems.

Do you feel like that you have the comfort from family and friends to support you?

I don't necessarily fool my family. I don't know. I fool 'em. I talk to my aunt about certain stuff. But as far as like my family, like close family, I don't really.

Why don't you wanna talk to your family?

They're not supportive of anything at all.

Got it. Does your mom know that you're pregnant?

Yeah, she knows. She's happy.

She's happy?

Yeah.

Okay. Are you happy about being pregnant?

I mean.

So why would you run away? 'Cause I heard you would run away for 2 weeks at a time.

Chasing boys.

Chasing boys?

Chasing boys.

Yeah, yeah. Why chasing boys?

I guess I was looking for love. I guess you can see that recently, but.

So I want to go back now to school. What did you do in order to not be able to go back to school?

I brought drugs to school. The first time I got kicked out, I brought drugs to school. To school and then I went to the program and like Ma said, I only went to the program one time and I never went back.

Why'd you wanna go back?

I don't feel as though, I don't know honestly. I was being hardheaded. I could have went to the program. It was not that hard to really do. But me, just me and me, I didn't wanna waste, I feel like it was a waste of my time.

Yeah.

So I didn't wanna.

Were you scared to go there?

No.

Okay. And why did you think it was a waste of your time?

Because it's like, how y'all gonna tell me I'm addicted to something when I know I can stop? And it's like—

Do you think you can stop smoking weed?

Yeah, I can stop smoking weed. It's not hard.

Yeah. Have you done it?

What?

Stop smoking weed?

Yeah.

Have you?

Yeah, at this point in time, yeah.

Because you're pregnant? Yeah, 'cause I'm pregnant. I wanna know for you, do you want to be better?

Yeah, I do.

Do you?

Yeah, I do.

And when you say you want to be better, what does that mean?

Like career-wise and financially and everything.

And why is it? Is it only because of the fact that you're pregnant or is it because you just wanna be better for yourself?

Because I got a little sister and I gotta still do what I gotta do for her whether I got a child or not.

You're pregnant now. Do you know who the father of the child is?

Yeah.

Okay, who is it?

I'm not gonna tell you that.

Okay. Okay. Has your aunt met him?

She don't.

She doesn't wanna meet him?

I know, I don't want her to meet him.

Why?

'Cause he's older.

Got it. I could assume that from the fact that your aunt told me you hang out with older people. Does he know that you're 16? He does now?

Yeah, I don't know, he been knew. I don't lie about my age to nobody. If you wanna mess with me, then you gonna.

Got it, okay then, got it. Is he in your life now? No. No, kind of off and on?

Kind of off and on.

How does he feel about the baby? Becoming a father to your child, does he wanna support?

I don't know. He's like—

So he does know that you are?

He knows, but he gives me mixed emotions. But I don't really care what he's saying 'cause at the end of the day it's my decision. It's not your decision. And if you knew you didn't want that, then you should've never, yeah.

Yeah. Has anyone ever talked to you about like, you know, using condoms and all that stuff? And I'm not being funny, like, because sometimes we never had the conversation.

Yeah, all the time.

Do you, what happens if you use condoms?

You want me to lie to you or you want me to be honest?

I want you to be honest with me.

I don't like the feeling.

Yeah, okay.

But it depends on, I'm not gonna say I don't use it all the time, I'm just saying like it depends on the partner. Like when I first meet you, I'm not just gonna be like, oh, we about to, we about to fuck. We not.

I do think you need some more education around that.

Yeah.

And you know, like that can teach you I'm not encouraging you as a 16-year-old to have sex, but I wanna know if you're gonna be making choices that you could be making better choices. This is a very heartbreaking situation for me because I see you, first of all, Barbara, trying. And I also see a young woman who is very smart, who does want a better future for herself, but is hurting. Do you hurt a lot? Do you have a lot of pain?

Yeah, I do.

You do?

Yeah.

Yeah. Do you get to ever talk about that with somebody?

I don't like to vent to people.

Why?

I just feel like there's no reason, because I'm gonna tell you about my— most of the time when I tell people my problems, they laugh at my problems.

People laugh at your problems?

Yeah. And even when I try to talk to somebody that I trust about my problems, it's like, you don't understand, you don't know where I'm coming from. So it's like, why do I gotta talk to you about it? Yeah, you don't understand what 'Cause you feel like you're gonna get judged.

I hear that constantly with you. You're like, when I talk to people, there's judgment, there's judgment, there's judgment. But I will tell you this, that sometimes adults make these choices and try to, we have our own lives and we get caught up and it's not right. But sometimes we forget that young people are just making decisions that they don't know how to make. And so we do a disservice to you by judging you and judging what you're going through. And I'm not talking about you, Ms. Barbara, 'cause I believe you're doing a great job.

Thank you.

But I want to let you know Yeah, I want you to know that I'm sorry for the adults that made you feel like you're judged. And I want you to know here you're not being judged. Here I actually believe that you could have a great future. I believe that you can get to a place to open up to people. Do you wanna open up to people? If you had the right person, you opened up to me today and you were just back there acting shy. You were just back there talking about no. You just opened up to me. You just told me a lot of things. You was like, can I be real? And I was like, yeah, you were very open and vulnerable with me. What made me different?

I don't know. I don't know, it just felt great. I don't know, I wasn't gonna lie.

Well, I appreciate it, I appreciate it. But there's other people who have similar training that I have that can also be there to support you. Yeah? So if I was to say I could connect you with somebody who's similar to me, would you be willing to talk to them?

Yeah, I would. I would.

You would? I love that. I really do. I love that because I wanted to know, I contacted a program that provides parenting classes, it provides counseling sessions, and they actually will get you back in school and support you to get your life back on track. I wanna note to you, we've already filled out the paperwork. I've called the director personally and the director is happy to have you. Become happy. I want to know, will you commit to going to this program to get your life back in order?

Yeah, I would.

You will? Yeah. Are you excited?

This is a good thing.

You ready? How does that make you feel, Barbara?

Good. I'm, I'm glad to hear it.

It does?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It makes me feel good. Yeah, it's a step A start for her.

A start for her.

Yep, that's a start.

But Barbara, I gotta tell you this as well. Is there anything that you wanna say to your niece on this? Anything at all?

No, I'm just happy that she's actually making the right choices. And again, like I said, her being pregnant, having a baby, preparing to have a baby had actually calmed her down a lot.

Yeah.

She's doing a lot better.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I wanna make sure—

So, oh yeah, she's trying.

I wanna make sure for you that even when the baby comes, that you still feel like you can be in this calm state, that you still feel like I can make better choices. And you just gotta get somebody that could talk to you, that can help you out. You know what I mean? Because you're not a bad woman. You're not a bad young girl. You're not at all. You just have had a lot of rejection. You've had people made you feel like you weren't worth something. You've had people made you feel like, well, maybe this is just all I get. I get, but I wanna be the first, second actually, 'cause I know Ms. Barbara did this for you, to tell you you are worth so much more. And you know that running away and things like that were hard. Anything you wanna say to her?

I apologize for putting you through everything I put you through, and I appreciate you for keeping me and my sister and not giving us away. Absolutely, not a problem. We gonna fight this battle on our own like we've been. It's not a problem. Don't make me cry, child. And we on TV too. Get it together. We gonna be all right.

I know you holding a lot in.

It's just the pregnancy hormones.

Yeah, yeah, sure. We gonna blame it on that. You holding a lot in. Barbara, also, I know a lot of individuals like you who have stepped up and taken time to be there for people. I know this is not your biological child. I asked you what you like and you said fishing because I wanna figure out a way, I told my producer already, I'm personally gonna pay for you to take some time for yourself so you can be, yes.

How you got to make me cry?

No, seriously, you deserve a moment for you to say thank you.

Thank you.

And I really appreciate what you're doing. Thank you so much. Because it's people like you that literally step up and make our world a better place.

Thank you, I appreciate it. Appreciate it.

Y'all gonna be all right. Just know that I love y'all. All right?

Okay.

Thank you. All right, give it up for them. I am happy to report things are looking up for Barbara and Ayanna. Take a look.

Hey guys, it's me, Ayanna, again. I had the baby. His name's Amor Ellis. He's 6 months. You see he's big. I love being a mom. It makes me look at life from a different perspective and it really humbled me. I'm focused on school now. So yeah, thank you for having me back, Karamo. Amor is really, really nice. You know, it humbled Ayanna a lot. And it's like excitement with having a new baby in the house. Thank you, Karamo, for having us on your show. Ayanna humbled a lot. And she really appreciate everything that you showed and told us as far as her learning experience. Thank you so much. Since the show, we get along a lot, lot better. I'm focused on me. I'm focused on graduating. You know, I'm focused on getting my life to the next step. I don't even go outside and, like, run the streets no more. I love being home with my baby, and I'm not dating anymore. You know, I don't be running after boys. So yeah, my main focus is just my child right now. Since your show, we learned to get along with each other a lot better. We communicate a lot better, and we also get along and we go places. I love being a mom so much, Karamo. Thank you so much. Oh, and by the way, Karamo, thank you so much for my fishing trip. I really, really enjoyed it. I took my mother. She had a wonderful time. Thank you, Karamo.

I am so thankful to hear these positive updates and that I was able to have such an impact on these people's lives. I'm truly grateful for all of you. Believe me. Karamo, thank you for being with us. Make sure to come back next time, friends, so we can keep talking and we can keep growing. I love you all.

I'm the parlay king. My wife, Shawntia, fell in love with my lifestyle.

You know what's losing me money?

Being married. The reason why she fell in love with me, I drive nice cars. I'm focusing on a lot of overseas trips for next year, but I'm just getting started in this shit. I make money on football. FanDuel, DraftKings, every app you can think of, ParlayKings. It don't even matter what sport it is.

I got a nice little system and rituals.

I watch the players before the game, I watch the players after the game, but I can't give too much.

Karamo, you can learn a thing or two from me about hitting it big.

The way I see it, Shawntia, she just want all the money for herself. She gonna take trips, she gonna go to casinos, she gonna get her hair done.

She want the cars, she want everything, but you gotta play to play, you know?

She ain't even paying her fair share on the bills.

So she want me to pay for 'em?

Karamo, when this all over, I'm gonna be the parlay god.

Halo me.

I'm all about my money, and my wife, she need to realize that. She say I got a gambling problem, but I ain't changing for nobody. When we all done, you gonna tell Shawntia to kiss the ring. Oh my God. Oh wow.

Wow. Okay, well, Shawntia is here. Welcome to the show. Wow. Listen, Shawntia, thank you so much for being here. We heard it. We heard it. We all saw it. We all had a reaction. But you tell me from your point of view, what's going on in your life?

Oh my gosh. Right now we are not in a good place at all. We are in the process of divorce. We've been together 8 years. We love each other. I love him, he loves me. But sometimes love's not enough.

Is it because you think Ian has a gambling problem?

Yes.

Why do you feel that way?

Because that's all he does. You see, he calls himself the parlay king. He's not very good at it. Wow. It's gotten ridiculous. He will go bet on anything. He don't even have to know anything about it. His rituals and stuff that he does, to each their own. But that's not what I'm trying to do. You taking away from us with these parlays. We need money for bills. We got 4 kids.

So how much money or how much debt is Ian in right now?

Right now I have an apartment on my credit for $13,000 'cause he gambled away all our money. So we were supposed to be buying a house. I can't get a house with that on my credit. They're gonna see that debt on there and they're gonna say, "No, you need to get that off of there.

That's too much debt." So the credit is low?

Yes.

It's low?

Yes.

Okay. So what happened with, The water bill, tell me about that.

Oh my gosh. One day I was in the shower and the water cuts off. The bill didn't get paid twice.

Twice your water got cut off?

Yes.

What does this text say?

Oh yeah, that was how much the bill was.

$229.

Yes, and he knew that it was due and he told me that he paid it. We got into it, that was a whole argument.

So what are some of the extreme things that Ian has done to get money?

He got our daughter a PlayStation. After he buys it, well, she's too young. Well, let me just go pawn this off.

You're saying that he has spent money on his tax returns 3 times. He spent $7K of his savings.

Yes.

And that he ruined your credit and also pawned your daughter's PS4.

Yes.

Pawned the engagement ring.

Yes, yes, my rings, my rings, they were gone. Like, I ain't seen 'em in months.

So what does he say happened to your rings?

He doesn't say.

Does his gambling addiction affect your relationship with your kids or his relationship with the kids?

No, he's a pretty good dad. But when you take from them, like, and spend it on things like that, you can't take from your kids like that. And then you're not teaching them good money spending habits either.

Who do you talk to about all this? 'Cause it's a lot for you to deal with.

It is. I talk to his cousins. They agree.

And so what has Ian told you about your relationship?

He told me that he feels like that he can save money and be better being single.

What? Does he want out of this relationship?

I feel like he does. Yeah, I love him, but that's not enough. Like, you can only tell a person so much.

Do you want outta this relationship?

If it's gonna be like this, I do. I do. I mean, I love what we have, but I can't, you bringing me down too. I can't be brought down with you. I got kids depending on me.

All right, friends. Well, listen, I think it's time that we talk to Shawntia's husband, the parlay king himself. Everyone, please welcome Ian to the show.

Yeah, slap it up.

Ian, so you said after the show you want to— you won't be the parlay king, but you'll be the parlay god.

God, I'm already working on it, man.

Yeah. How are you the parlay god? Check it out. I don't lose.

So why did our water get cut off if you don't lose? I didn't lose in the parlay.

You said that you think she fell in love with your lifestyle. What did you mean by that?

She fell in love with my lifestyle because she saw me getting it and she want a part of the bank. Everybody want a part of the bank. It don't sound like a very providing bank if the water's getting cut off. The water not cut off.

She said the water got cut off twice. It's not cut off now though, is it? Okay, so how I get paid?

Not you.

You telling me that because you can't keep up, I'm supposed to— because you can't keep up, I supposed to just keep on just giving up money? Give it up money, give it up money, give it up money, give it up money, give it up money, give it up money, give it up money. Keep up with you.

We supposed to be at the same place. No, no, you supposed to be at the same— See.

Is this your sports car right here? Both of them. And they had me take that one because my outfit kind of matched the car. So they had me take it that day.

You can't do cars, dog.

You do know your feet are not touching the ground in these photos.

My feet, look, they on the ground.

No, no, no, that's Photoshop.

See, it's these delusions that I deal with that he just think he the parlay king, parlay guy.

That's my, look, look, you see that building back there?

That's my garage. She mad because that's why she don't know nothing about that stuff. You can afford those cars, you can't afford to keep the water on. I don't buy none of this stuff. You can afford these cars, not keep the water on. I'm the parlay king.

Heaviest head to wear the crown.

Where my rings at? Heaviest head to wear the crown.

Where your rings?

Where your rings? And the PlayStation. You pawned the PlayStation. Why you—

why, why, where? Okay, logically, when you think about it logically, you think about it logically.

3 biologically.

3 biologically.

2 years old. She can't even hold the controller. You bought it. She can't even hold the controller.

All jokes aside, Ian, Shawntia is not the only person who thinks that you have a serious problem here. Your cousin Alonzo is also here to talk about your gambling issues. Everyone, can we please welcome Alonzo to the show? Funny, boy. All right, so Alonzo, why did you reach out to me for help? I reached out because I'm highly concerned.

For lies?

No, I'm highly concerned for their relationship, for the survival of their relationship.

How are you highly concerned for something that don't even involve you?

No, now I'm out here. We gonna do this, we gonna do it right. This don't even involve you. So because what it is is he's jeopardizing a lot of things.

He's putting a lot of things on the line and it's costing him a lot and I just don't want to see him lose everything.

Cause I truly care about both of them. Yeah. But it gets iffy when I give him $3,000 and he loses my money. So you've given him $3,000 and he's lost your money?

That's right.

Like. Cause he has all these crazy superstitions about lucky socks and lucky gloves.

And if I'm in the.

It makes sense now why you're involved in this. Because not only are you seeing her, their relationship being deteriorated by this gambling problem, but you've also been affected by giving him money— and him losing your money. That's right. $3,000 is a lot of money to give somebody.

Yes, it is.

I mean, he's really good at convincing you.

Yeah, he'll be on the—

That's $300.

That's $300, bro.

How much money does he ask you to owe him? $3,000. $3,000. $3,000. Your cousin just said you owe him $3,000. What is your response to that?

He tried to get in on— he tried to play a parlay. You try to play a parlay, you got to pay to play. If you lose, you lose. I ain't playing for you. That's—

now I—

That ain't my money. That's your money. I understand what he's saying. You try to pay to play.

You try to—

If you can't hopscotch, you gonna fall on your face once you roll them little rocks on that thing.

I understand what he's saying, but I didn't, I wasn't guaranteed no payout.

It wasn't about me.

I wasn't guaranteed no payout. I was never told I was gonna win anything. So it was more of an investment than me trying to play a parlay.

It was definitely more of an investment.

But then it gets crazy and it gets extremely hurtful when Shantia calls me various times. Lonzo, what did he say when you asked for your money back? He said he's gonna win it back. He said, I got you. I'm gonna just keep investing in the parlays.

Oh, the Rams play next week.

Oh, the Lakers play next week.

As soon as he, I'm gonna make this parlay, I'm gonna pay you back.

And then either the team loses or he bets wrong.

Regardless of the thing is he's 0 for 10.

Hey, nah. Wow. That's with somebody else's money.

With my money. So you owe somebody else money. I'm perfectly fine pocketing this money.

Alonzo, I wanna know what do you think that Shawntia should do about their marriage?

I honestly, I don't know what's needed, but some sort of counseling is needed.

Some sort of counseling is needed because I don't think Ian takes it serious. I don't think he takes it serious at all. I think Shawntia is very serious. Like when we start talking about PlayStations and taking from kids and lights, like you let my water get cut off, we got a problem. And it's just alarming when he's giving away things that's jeopardizing the family. She's crying, she's upset, bills aren't getting paid. You risking livelihood at this point. And I don't think a parlay is worth it.

Karamo, this is how I feel about it. I love him, I love him. And this is really what he truly believes. I'm not gonna stop loving you, but You gonna have that by yourself.

So your wife just said that y'all are about to separate.

You don't want that.

And that's why we're here. Your wife just said that you're about to separate. Let it settle down, man. How does that make you feel?

I'm just trying to get money, man.

I'm tired of being broke. I know you're tired of being broke and that's why gambling seems so enticing to people because it's a quick fix. But there's an ugly side to that, which is what you're living right now where you're losing the money. You are not winning in life. Let that sink in. You are losing money. You're about to lose your wife. You're about to lose your family. Stop chasing a win. You gotta win right there. Look at the win you already got. Can you turn to your wife right now and say, I have a gambling problem? Hold on. It's okay. It's all right. It's all right. Take your time.

It's all right.

I may, or I may not,, but it looks like I do have a little bit of a problem with gambling. Give me a hug. Give me a hug. All right. Because the thing is that I understand, take a seat for me. I understand you took a big step step there. And for the first time since you've been out here, I see a man. I don't see a jokester. Alonzo, can you let him sit next to his wife, please? Come sit next to your wife. You're next to your wife. You're chasing a win like we talked about before, and this woman is telling you that she wants to be here so y'all can win together. She's been holding you down and you know it. And even through the aggravation and all that stuff, she ain't left you yet. Your wife wants to be there for you. It's a win. Your kids wanna be there for you. You understand? But you have to acknowledge this addiction and you have to get help for this addiction. You hear me? You have to get help for the addiction. I just wanna win, man. I'm gonna ask you this. Do you want to get help? I just wanna win all around, man. I get it. But the first step in winning in your life for real is to get help for this addiction. Do you wanna get help for this addiction so you can start to win in life?

Yeah, if I'm gonna win, yeah.

I need to hear from you, and I know that your wife needs to hear this too. I want to get help for my gambling addiction. Can you say it to your wife? I want to get help for my gamb— You got it. I wanna get help for my gambling addiction. That's right. Good job. Good job. I know that was hard. Good job. Good job. We gonna get there. We gonna get there. The first thing that you have to do being married to someone who has an addiction that is gambling is that you have to first separate your finances. You have to figure out how to get your money into a separate account. Doesn't mean that you're not gonna support him with bills, you're not gonna be there for him, but you have to also have your own separate thing. Secondly, that credit, because if he's not able to, which I believe he's gonna take the steps to get this gambling under control, If he's not able to, you have to rebuild your life. What I wanna do for you is I'm gonna pay for credit repair for you so that this credit can get good. You hear me? I'm gonna pay for that. You're welcome, you're welcome, you're welcome, you're welcome, you're welcome, you're welcome, you're welcome. You're welcome. You're welcome. It is gonna be tough because you're gonna have to weed yourself off of commercials. You're gonna have to weed yourself off of internet ads. You're gonna have to wean yourself off of all the things that say win, win, win. Gamblers Anonymous, they got stuff like this. It's gonna be a journey, but I promise you, the same way somebody can be sober for many years, same way I'm sober for many years, you can get sober from addiction of gambling. And you have to change your lifestyle, but you got somebody here, you got somebody there, you got somebody in this audience who wanna support you. I'm here to support you. All right? You got it? Y'all gonna be all right. I believe y'all gonna be all right. All right everyone, listen, gambling addiction is uncontrollable urge to keep gambling despite the toll it may take on your life. Gambling can stimulate the brain's reward system much like drugs or alcohol, which leads to an addiction. If you or someone you love has a gambling problem, please call the National Problem for Gambling Helpline at 1-800-522-8255. 1-800-621-4700. You can get some help. Y'all got this. Y'all just saw a man. He took a big first step here today. Now we're going to take it. You want my ring?

You got the ring back. Did you get the ring back? Look at that. The ring is back.

Thank God the ring is back. Joining me now, everyone, is Shawntia.

Shawntia.

Hi.

How are you, beautiful?

I'm good. So how have you been since the last time I saw you?

I've been fairly good. I mean, it didn't, it wasn't always that way with me and him. I ended up moving out at the end of November. Things get worse before they get better, right?

Yeah. So, and that was a big step. You felt like you needed to move out. I know we talked about that, but you knew, why did you make that decision?

Things for me and him got worse. They really did. He didn't get any better. We were fighting a lot. And then I just needed the peace of mind and better place for me and my kids.

Good job. I appreciate you. Yeah, give it up for her for doing that, for choosing yourself. I know that can be a hard decision when you're in a marriage that you love so much. It was really hard. Yeah. So, you know, we talked about your credit and that was one of the things that I said to you, like, you gotta get your credit together because he's been gambling, he's put you in debt. So how's your credit going?

Oh my gosh, man. I've gotten a few things removed from my credit. It's great. It's going up. When this apartment gets off, it's up.

I'm buying a house this year. Good job. Good job.

I did that because I wanted you I wanted you to feel like you had some support. Thank you so much. I appreciate you so much.

Thank you. You're welcome. You're welcome. Like for me, if I'm giving out something, it needs to be something that's going to actually help somebody to get to another level. So I'm glad that you're utilizing it and that it's working out for you. So I gotta go to your man, your ex-man or your, I don't know where y'all at. So how's your relationship with Ian? Y'all together? I know you moved out. Are y'all separated? Are y'all divorcing?

What's going on? We live in separate houses. We still co-parent. We're kind of like dating, getting to know each other all over again. Good job. Something like that.

Okay.

It's— yeah.

How's the co-parenting going?

It's going all right. He's, he's at my house quite a bit.

Oh, he is?

Okay. But some days I work at 5 in the morning, so it's convenient to not have to drag the kids out or have them stay over there and get— keep them in their routine.

What I like about what you said is that y'all are getting to know each other again. And I think sometimes when couples get together, they feel like, oh, you know what? We already know everything we need to know. And there's actually always room for more talking and growing. That's why I say that at the end of every show. Yeah. And so I love y'all at the end of every show.

But actually, he's been showing me somebody that I've never met. It's good. It's a good thing.

Good job. I love that. So Ian is also here with us today. Everyone, please welcome Ian back to the show.

What's up?

What's up? Ian, how are you doing? I'm doing, you know, managing. Yeah, listen. Day at a time, every day at a time, you know. One day at a time. Let me tell you something. You have, there's guests that stay on my heart and my mind and you are one of them because people don't understand because, you know, you were out here joking. They don't understand what a big of a step it was for you to admit that you had a problem. And I think sometimes people are just like, oh, he could have did more. And they don't realize when somebody is struggling with addiction, for even them to make that, I was just so proud of you. So I gotta ask you, yeah, give it up for him. He made a big step. I gotta ask you first thing, when was the last time you gambled? I ain't gamble no more.

Good.

Ultimately since— So when was the last time, November? Since the show. What about the Super Bowl? Yeah, nah.

And that's tough, 'cause like I said, it's my birthday week, so.

But at least you stayed strong. I'm proud of you for staying strong on that. Yeah, seriously. You told my producers that you were putting in work on yourself, but not getting any abs. What did you mean by that?

Yeah, as you can see, I still got like a kind of a round figure, but this mental up here is kind of, I could do, I could probably lift up like, Probably, probably a truck or two.

Good, good. So you getting— mentally though, don't, don't put me to the test on the, uh, on the actual weights. You— so you're working on your mind, you're working on, you're working on your mental state? Yeah. Is this the first— is this your first time in your life working on your mental state and your emotional state? Yeah, it's the first time I really slowed down and, uh, recognized that I had more than one problem. Mm, yes. What else did you recognize you need to work on? The man in the mirror. Mm, okay, good, good. Ian, you know, something I love about you, I keep telling you, is that what you don't realize is that you have a subtle strength that resonates with a lot of people. And I know a lot, a lot of people who use jokes like you do to sort of laugh off things that's going on in their life. But what you do is that you stop the jokes and you start to have to confront what's going on in your life. And that's, I'm very proud of you for that, brother.

I'm very, very proud of you. Most definitely. I'm very happy for you. Most definitely.

I wanna know, do you feel like you're winning at life now? Not really, but it's just beginning.

Got it.

So we gotta do everything one thing at a time. Ian, I got some news for you. You're actually winning at life now. You are. Last time you was here, I had to tell you you weren't winning at life. You actually are winning at life right now. The fact that you are able to say you are working on your mental health, the fact that you are able to say you have not gambled since the last time you were here, the fact that you are still able to acknowledge your wife's needs as she's moved out and be a good co-parent, you are stepping up and being the man that you needed to be. You are winning at life.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You winning. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. It's just that you were chasing such a different win for so long that you don't even recognize this is the win.

This the win. This is very good. I really never even thought I would see the day. I never. It's been different. It's been nice. Good job. The glow up is real.

Good job. I love hearing that. I say it all the time, I can't fix everyone's problem with one conversation, but I can give the tools to start. And I can see right now that y'all have started, y'all on the right path. Shawntia, you are doing what you gotta do as a woman for yourself, for your kids, and I respect you for that. And Ian, I'm so proud of you. This is the hard part. People do love you just like me, and I want you to know that there's so much love out there. When you went on social media, people's hearts love was pouring out to you, both of y'all. So people love you and we're watching you and we are rooting for you. We were all rooting for you. And we are still rooting for you. We are still rooting for you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Yeah. Listen, thank you so much for checking back. Thank you for coming on the show and being vulnerable and sharing your story.

Thank you so much. You're welcome. I can't thank you enough.

I love y'all, seriously, I love you so much. So, Karamo. This breaks my heart to hear the situation you're going through with your daughter's father.

Yeah.

So I wanna know just off the bat, what has Josh missed in your daughter's life? Karamo, where—

You laughed. I love it.

She's like, what has he missed?

I'm like, where do I start?

What has he missed?

Yeah. When I tell you I have been dealing with this man since 2013. Okay. It started off with him treating me horribly, but now it's trickling down to my daughter. Okay. So I'm just like, I don't know what to do.

So this is what he's missed? The 4th, 5th, and 7th birthdays?

He's missed the 4th, 5th, and 7th birthday.

And how old is your daughter now?

She's almost 8, so that's almost half her life. Yeah, wow. Literally almost half her life.

And Christmas, he comes, no presents was given last year at all?

No presents were given last year. I can't even remember a Christmas where he was around. There has not been one Christmas where he's been there. Maybe the first year, but that's it.

Halloween, dance recital, school awards, and he's not involved in the school at all.

Let me tell you about these holidays, okay? Okay. She likes to share that love with other people. So she'll call him and have to hype him up. So she feels as though she has to bring the energy to him. Like, oh daddy, it's Christmas, da da da da da. And he in the bed, so she starts feeling bad for him. Well really it should be the opposite. He should be getting her into the holiday spirit. But she feel like as a mom, He's a 7-year-old kid. She has to change him and that's not okay.

She's always seeking validation is what she's doing. Exactly. Already. Already. So I'm ready to bring out Josh. Josh, welcome to the show. Hold on, we haven't heard Josh's side yet. So let's, you know, we gotta still hear Josh's side.

See what story he telling today.

How you doing, Josh? I'm doing good. How you doing?

Good.

Thank you for having me too. Thank you, thank you. Yeah. See, I'd like to be fair here because we've heard one side here. So Josh, I want to hear your side of this. Is there anything that Kaila has said that you feel like is not true? Yes. She said I moved to Orlando. I did move to Orlando eventually to chase my dream in the entertainment industry, yes. Yeah. The reason I left was because at some point she realized, you know what? Whatever side hustle, whatever little money he's bringing in, it's not enough. She gave me an ultimatum. She said, you have until February. To make X amount of money.

I said this? Yes. When did I say this? We agreed on it. This is news to me 'cause I never said that. I never gave an ultimatum ever.

I just wanna finish. Ever.

I would like to finish. Ever. But you're talking, I can't cuss on this. But you talking, like you not making sense.

What you saying is false.

What did you even talk about? Oh my gosh, like I can't.

We agreed that I was not, and like I said, I wanna talk to you.

February I gave you an ultimatum?

Since when did I give you an ultimatum?

I held you down for 2 years.

We agreed.

I held you down for 2 years. Yes, you did. I held you. Oh, I'm sorry, but I held you down.

We agreed that I was not chipping in and she was holding me down. I said I need to— I was working 2 jobs. Yes, I said I need to start pushing in. Working full-time. And we agreed that I need to have this much money. Okay, so, but this is the thing, this is the thing because I can see this. There's always gonna be a miscommunication again about the money or whatever. My thing again, going back to the daughter, If you don't have the financial stuff, she's still taking the burden. She's still, she's holding it up.

All the burden, and I'm tired of it. I take all the burden.

Every single burden. But my question is, do you think that you're being the best father you can be to your daughter? No. Right. Not as in the last maybe 6 months, I've definitely matured as a man. I've definitely made more conscious decisions to say, you know what? These are things over the last few years that I've been terrible at. How old is your daughter? I just have my daughter for the summer. Before that, I try on holidays.

What holiday, Josh?

I said I try. I never said I'm successful.

But when you come through, you know how it makes her feel that you don't be around for holidays? I do. Do you know how it makes her feel that she gotta give you the energy on holiday? She gotta hype you up.

How often do you talk to your daughter? Lately, not a lot. I'm not gonna lie. Does your daughter say that she wants to talk to you? She does. Does she say she wanna spend time with you? She does. And then what's your response to her?

My response is that what I'm out here doing, I'm trying to do for us and me and mommy cannot get along right now, so I can't do that with mommy.

And as I am doing this, I hope you see the fruits of my labor.

But Josh, you've been saying that for 8 years.

I have.

And there's no, like there's no change.

So my producers told me that your family lives like 5 minutes away. Away from her and you'll go visit your family, but you won't see your daughter.

But won't see, when we lived in Georgia, yes, I used to have to force him to take her. Is that true? I used to have to force him to take her.

There is always details in this. Where she was at next door to my apartment, I had no car, so I said, "Kyla, I will watch her, but can you please just drop her off?" The only detail that I'm concerned about is your daughter. And so like I'm hearing a lot of all this stuff that's going on. So I've admitted that she has a short end of the stick. You're saying that everything she has said is correct. The final result is that as a man, I have to look at myself in the mirror every day and say, no matter how it happened, no matter whether it's my fault or her fault, that's that. So my question is, Karamo said that you're always on your phone instead of wanting to play with your daughter.

Is that true? No. No, it is. No.

It is. This is the longest she's spent in a room with me in the last 8 years. I don't know how she would know.

No, it is. Let's bring it back to when you came to visit Philly. And I was supposed to be in my room the whole time, and you were supposed to be downstairs with her, whatever, taking care of her. Watching TV, yes. And I had to go downstairs and facilitate a game for you to even interact with her. I had to say, "Let's play Uno." Wait, wait, wait, she did this. You were sitting on the couch on your phone, and she was sitting on the floor, and she came to me like, "Mommy, Daddy's here, but he's not spending any time with me." Once again, this is true, but this is why.

He's saying shit that's true, but then going backwards. My daughter was sitting down there, turned on the TV, and got stuck in YouTube. She got y'all, I know I did.

She got stuck in YouTube. Because you weren't interacting with her.

I did interact. That's what I'm, this is what you're— Karamo, I wanna know, my producer said that you have something here that you want to present to Josh today. Is that correct? Yes, I do.

What is it? So Nalaiah actually wrote you a letter. She wrote you a letter and I tried to get her to explain it express everything that she was feeling, but she loves you so much that, you know, she expressed what she could. I'm gonna read it to you. She said, Daddy, I want to start off by saying I love you and I appreciate you for being my daddy. I don't want this to be emotional, so please don't take this to heart. But to start off, I really want to talk to you more. I love to FaceTime you, but I would rather see you in person. She said, I'm not trying to force you to do these things, but it will really make me happy. But if you call me, don't talk about this letter 'cause it will make it a little awkward. But this is the end of the letter, and I want to say I love you so, so, so, so, so much. "And I appreciate you.

XOXO, Nalaiah, your sassy and pretty daughter." What do you think about that? I wish my daughter was here. I wish my daughter was here so I could reply to that to her because like she said earlier when I was backstage, she is, for a 7, almost 8-year-old, she's extremely in tune with her emotions. She's very perceptive and aware of what's going on. I can hear the letter. We have so much bad blood there's nothing I can do.

But you know what I don't get, y'all? Sorry to cut you off, but I have to make this point. And I want you to answer this. I want you to answer this. Matter of fact, look at me and answer this question, please. Why is it that when we're not around each other and we're communicating and we're trying to communicate, trying to get to the bottom of things, it's like I'm enemy number one? But then when we're together and we're in person and you're visiting and it's like you tell me all your life, you know, we cool. You know, you coming talking to me instead of spending time with her. You know what I'm saying? And we got that, like we're cool. So why when we're not around each other, why is it like we bumping heads 24/7? Like what's the, can you explain that?

It is because—

Can you explain, like is it the way I communicate? Do you feel like I'm attacking you? Do you feel like, are you, do you automatically think I'm attacking you?

Let's stop right there. Do you feel like she's attacking you? Yes. But right, I'm not gonna say victim. I'm not gonna say I feel like she's attacking me and I'm a victim. But based on the things that I've done, admittedly, she does bring this energy towards me. All right, so this is the truth bomb of this all. Yes. I want you to get up with me. All right, so the reason I got you to get up is because I'm hearing the communication issues, but again, the only person that's most important to me is your daughter.

Correct.

So I have a picture of your future daughter that I want you to look at, and I want you to look at this photo and realize this is what's gonna happen to your daughter because of the issues that you're doing now. Low self-esteem, jealousy, clinginess, attention seeking, Attracting abusive partners, craving sex, attracting older men. So I wanna ask you right now, is that the photo of your daughter that you want? No, and that's why I spent the last, like I said, everything that she has addressed on this show, I thought I came to resolve those things. But the thing is, is that it's not about resolving it with her. I know. It's about, I need you to look at this because we all know this to be true. When there is a young woman who has a father that she's begging to say, please FaceTime me, please talk to me, please show me some love. When your daughter is writing those letters, I don't give a damn about what you two are going through. This is what your daughter's gonna happen. This is your daughter. I don't think you get what I'm saying, Karamo. I do get what you're saying. I get what you're saying.

You're like, I'm hearing you.

I'm saying, I'm a third party. I don't know you. Do you want this to be your daughter?

No. Okay. So when are the actions gonna start lining up?

Like when I paid my last child support payment. You don't want me to be that new father. You're stuck on the person I used to be. I'm craving for you to be that new person. You don't want me to be that new person. You know I keep up with you.

You know I keep the relationship open. You know I don't cut her off from talking to you.

So I want you to tell me right now, hold on one second. What are you going to do from this point on to say, I'm gonna make sure this does not become my daughter? Please answer that. I have recently got a more secure job that does not have me being all over the country with crazy hours, so I have more stability. More ways to prioritize my daughter. Because if I'm on a plane and I'm in a place where the flight is delayed— Hold on, hold on, hold on a second. I'm saying it from the past.

I'm saying it from the past.

'Cause I gotta tell you something, brother. I'm listening to you and I'm hearing you and you are riddled with a lot of excuses. And it is excuse after excuse after excuse. And part of that excuse is because you just told me earlier you feel attacked through your communication. And so you're constantly making excuses You're constantly in defense mode instead of love mode. And the love that you need to be giving is for your daughter. This is what your daughter's gonna turn into. All your daughter's saying, I need you to FaceTime me. If you call your daughter's mother and she says, no, I'm not bringing the child, guess what? That's what you as a man say, I'm gonna walk my ass down this road that has no pavement. I didn't do that.

I didn't do that. Like I said.

I didn't do that.

Like I said.

I didn't do that. You did it twice. I didn't do that numerous times.

You did it twice.

I told you, stop defending, start loving your daughter. Stop defending, start loving your daughter. Your daughter right now is saying she needs you. Are you feeling me right now? Your daughter is crying. Your daughter is writing letters saying she needs you. Come take a seat. Come take a seat. Your daughter is saying that she needs you. Your daughter says, Dad, I need you to FaceTime me. I watched you when she read that letter to you. I am a father as well. Well, that would've crushed me. That didn't crush you. Tell me, tell me. I'm watching you. We're all watching you. I've tried to say this. I don't know if you're doing this for ratings at this point. I've said everything. I'm doing this for your daughter is what I'm doing this for. Everything you've said, I've agreed with you. Just because you're agreeing with me, I'm asking you to have an emotional connection. And this is my answer. You just asked, wouldn't that crush me? I have beat myself up I've come to terms with that list. But as here in real time in front of these cameras, if y'all are here to beat me up, cool. I'm sorry if I did not acknowledge the work you've done in the past 30 days. I'm saying that to you man to man. If you feel like you felt like attacked and that I couldn't acknowledge it, I'm sorry for that. I don't think it was more so acknowledging, it was more so in my beef with her. I told you already that this is not about you and her to me. Only person I care about is your daughter. And respectfully, I feel the same. So you tell us right now, what's the next 30 days? Next 30 days is my daughter's, first is my daughter's 8th birthday. That is the first thing. I've communicated with her in the last 30 days. What are we going to do for this birthday? What do you think you can do? Talk to my daughter about it. I don't have to ask her. I can FaceTime my daughter and say, what do you wanna do for your birthday? What do you wanna do? So how often do you FaceTime your daughter? Every day. What's the schedule you have in your mind? Every day. Okay. Every single day. She wakes up and goes to school around 8 o'clock So I can call her in the morning. I get off at 5 or 6 o'clock and I can call her in the afternoon.

Are you gonna do that and actually create a positive pattern with her? Yes, I am. To where she's like, okay, my daddy, all right, I know my daddy's about to call me. All right, I know my daddy's calling me after school. 'Cause she'd be hyped and happy to talk to you.

The best thing for you all to do as co-parents is for you to clearly write down the best boundaries and the best things that you can do to be there for your daughter. You give that list to her and say, this is the things This is what Daddy said he's going to do.

But can I ask you advice on something? Sure you can. What do you suggest that I do when it comes to the financial situation? Because like I said, I'm never gonna close the door on their relationship.

I want it, I just paid it like 30 days, thank you.

Yeah.

You said what? Somebody said child support, I said I want it and I just paid it last 30 days, so that's it for the next 30 days.

And over that time? A long time, a long time. Okay.

It's a bunch of money I owe, I've admitted that.

I just caught myself. We moving forward though. So okay, let's see what the next 30 days gonna bring.

But again, it's really again about tracking the behavior. He's admitted that he hasn't paid before in the past. He's admitting and saying he's paid this last 30 days and he wants to continue from here on out. The thing is, I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt that here on out, but these things have to be set in stone. So if you need to add on a second list of saying, listen, you need to gimme a payment on the 1st, this is the amount, that way you two don't need to communicate. Both of y'all need to write it out. The most important thing is write it out for your daughter.

Yeah.

Write out what you're gonna do. And that's for you. Write out, "Daughter, I'm gonna do this, this, this, this, and this." I would take the steps to write them out first. I would take the steps. Write it out for her and let her know and give it to her. And then that way she can say, "Okay, Dad is hold, I'm holding Dad accountable to these things." And she would appreciate that.

She would appreciate that a lot.

At the end of the day, I think that you both want the best for your daughter. I think that y'all, the communication and the anger between you two, has unfortunately bled in on your part into your daughter. And I think that if you don't want your daughter to turn out to be the woman that I just showed you right there, I think you will continue to make the steps that you've already started to make. Just continue for your daughter. You hear me? I think y'all can do this. All right, listen everyone, we'll go right back after this. All right everyone, please welcome Kyla and her daughter Nalayah to the show.

Hi Kyla. Hey. Hi Nalayah.

So I first of all wanna say, Nalaya, how are you doing?

You look so pretty. I'm doing good.

So I gotta ask you, how's it been with your father?

It's been really good.

He's doing better. Good. So does he call you every morning before school? 'Cause I know that's one of the things he didn't do before. Yes, he does.

Good.

How does that make you feel when your dad calls you every morning?

Happy and joyful.

Oh, you are adorable. Can someone get this little girl a modeling contract? And then get her signed up with NASA 'cause she about to be a scientist too. I'm all about like her being a model and a scientist. That's me. Nalaya, what is your favorite thing about spending time with your dad?

Probably play fighting him.

Oh, that's cool. Y'all just have little pay fights?

That's adorable.

Yes. I see. So it sounds like he's starting to take those baby steps and step up. How's it been for you with Josh since the show?

He is, and I definitely see a change in his attitude. He even contacted me without me having to ask him, and he asked if we can have a situation where he pays me $100 a week. Good job! Every Friday. He gave me my first hundred. So, you know, like we said, steps. He's definitely taken the steps that we spoke about on the show and I'm proud of him.

I'm proud of him too. Listen, I, for me, it's all about like taking those baby steps because that's what gets you to where you gotta be. You know what I mean? Growth doesn't happen overnight. Yes, me. Well, it's time to talk to the man who's had this growth and see how he is. Let's everyone welcome Josh to the show. Josh, how are you? I'm good. How you doing? Thanks for having me again. Of course, of course. So what did you think when you saw yourself back on the show?

Honestly, well, first I would like to say thank you for just giving me that outside perspective, just to see how I looked from my child's perspective, from her mom's perspective, you know?

And it was not a good look, but it was definitely, insightful moment to just make that complete 180, or at least make the steps to begin making that 180 turn. I am so thankful that you were willing to be on my show and be vulnerable enough to share your side, and that you're taking the steps now. Because like I said on that day on the show, this is about your daughter. You know what I mean? You're grown, I'm grown.

Oh yeah.

I completely understand that. And not to cut you off, but I do wanna apologize for that because I do understand your reason for having us on the show, just to not to highlight my negativities or to highlight my bad character traits, but to just put that shine on the overall perspective and the bigger picture, which is my daughter at the end of the day. So I do wanna apologize for that. Thank God. I appreciate you saying that. I do appreciate you saying that. So Josh, I gotta say— My family's been so much better since. Thank you. You're welcome. You're welcome. I gotta tell you this. I'm just so excited for you because that day on the show, even though you coming for me, I still saw the man that you are and I believed in you. I really did. I really did. Looking back at everything, I can definitely say being on the Karamo show, having you take the time outta your day to have us on there, highlight our issues or whatever, it was definitely something that saved our family. Aw, that's gonna make me cry. I can agree with that. I'm gonna cry.

I'm gonna cry.

Yeah, it warms my heart to know that You took the steps to co-parent, to be in your daughter's life. And just let y'all know, that is what the Karamo Show's about. It's about talking and growing. And we are seeing the growth right here. So thank y'all for giving me this update. You made me tear up. Very few people do that. So I appreciate you so much. Y'all be blessed. I'm so happy for y'all. Thank you so much. And come back next time, friends, so we can keep talking Thinking and Growing. I love you all so much. So I wanna start off right now. There's tension between you and your daughter.

When did that start? Well, Karamo, I really need your help really bad with this girl. She is just, she's working my nerves. Like she really hurt my feelings a lot all the time. Like I'm just tired of her. And it first started when she turned 18. I don't know, she just flipped. She just was a whole different person, a person I didn't even recognize. Wow.

What do you mean when you say Why do you say she's reckless though?

Reckless 'cause her mouth. She like called me, when she turned 18, she was calling me names like bees.

I don't wanna say. Oh yeah, okay. She called you the B word?

Yep. And telling me I was a bum and I was broke.

You are her mother and she's calling you the B word and telling you that you are broke and other things? And a bum. What? How old were you when you had your daughter? 15. 15. What was that like for you? Horrible.

Mm-hmm. Why?

Family.

Be a bit young.

That's why. Did your family support you?

I guess you could say that. I guess you could say that to a degree. I mean, like, all the way, but yeah, to a degree.

There's still some pain there. A lot. Yeah, I can see it. What's causing that pain from back then?

Just being neglected from my mom, my dad, and then family all together. And now my daughter, she wanna do the same thing.

So what happens when you try to talk to Kysha about her behavior?

Well, the last time she just had left and went to Appleton without even telling me and took my grandbabies too. So I didn't even get a chance to see my last grandbaby when she was born. I didn't see her till after a year. Wow. Okay. So she was like, when she come back, "Oh Mom, I'm so sorry. I don't know why I treated you like that." And I'm like, "Kyeshia, it's okay. I just wanna make it better now. I don't wanna keep dwelling on our past because that's not gonna fix anything." When's the last time you saw Kyeshia? About a month ago when she claimed she was finna go to the school board and then didn't come back for 5 days. So I was calling her trying to find out is she okay? She didn't take no change of clothes for the girls. And I'm like, okay, well you didn't take no change of clothes. She's like, oh well, Mama bought new clothes. I'm like, why would you buy new clothes when they have new clothes here? Why are you wasting money? And stuff like that. Oh Mom, I'm not wasting money. And I'm like, okay, Kyeshia, you know, that's fine. But when you coming back? We just out here having fun. Having fun for 5 days with no coming home, changing clothes, washing them girls' butt. Where are y'all? Where are you at? Where you at with my grandbabies?

Understandable. So these are young children. Yeah, little girls. I understand. Listen, I love hearing your side of story because it gives me a lot of perspective, especially you asking me for help. But now I need to talk to your daughter, Kaisha. Kaisha, come on out please. Hi, Karamo. Thank you for being on my show. Please take a seat. Proceed. Kaiesha, so I can see that you don't wanna sit next to your mother.

Why not? 'Cause everything she's saying back there is a lie. You don't listen to me. You block me out. You cut me out your life and you called CPS on me and I have not ran to you because when the CPS got called on me 'cause of the schools and that's what you don't get. They called 'cause my child had eczema and I have not ran to you. A couple times you put your hands on me for no apparent reason.

A lot of times. Tyeshia, I wanna know because you just said a lot right there that is shocking me right now. So what happened between y'all? You're saying that your mother called CPS on you and your children?

My mama have done a lot. I ain't called no CPS, but that's what she said. They said no, I left Friday. I did go do what I had to do for my child. That was with my friend and my friend bought my clothes for my child and me. We washed our butts. But as she's sitting here lying on TV, brought me on here for what? She's a compulsive liar. I'm not a compulsive liar, you are. Yeah, whatever. That's all you do, right? You don't listen to me. You're right, Kaisha, you're right. You break me out, you block me out. You're right, you told me, right? You said I don't care for you. I care for you more than anybody. Well, you took money from me. I'm just telling you right now, you took me— you don't give me respect that today. Like I told you before, it's over. I don't want nothing else to do with you. You can take your kids and go. Y'all could just go, cuz I don't want to deal with it no more. I'm done.

I'm totally done. Latrice, I want to know, why does Kaisha think that you stole her money?

I don't know what kind of money I supposed to stole from her. I gave you $3,000.

You gave?

Get it right. Gave? No, something that you owed me. I don't owe you nothing. You stayed with me over a year for free. I don't owe you a penny. You didn't pay for for no food, no nothing. Your whole life. You told me out your mouth that I owe you since a child. I never told you that. Yes, you have. No, I did not. Yes, you have. I should've never came to the show with this girl. I swear I should've just stayed at home 'cause this is ridiculous. You called this show.

You came on the right place because I wanna be able to support you all. I wanna know, Tyisha, from you, you said 3 weeks ago you moved out.

I wanna know what happened. I didn't move out, she kicked me out. That's a lie. That's not a lie, I got the messages. You wanna see it? I never told you you had to leave. Yes, you did.

I never said—

You told me you could come get your stuff and go. Yes, I told you you could come and get your stuff because you wasn't— But I wasn't leaving. That's not the point. I don't have to tell you what I got to do. Okay, you right. You don't gotta tell me nothing. You right, you can stay at my house and tell me nothing. You totally right. You right. You can stay with me, you can do whatever you like.

You don't have to tell me anything else. Kiesha, I wanna know something. Is this the message you said that's from your mother? It says, I'm not your mother, I don't want to be your mom, "and I will not claim you." What could possibly make a mother say that to their child, Latrice?

She been saying that her whole life. Because that's how she is. She's a liar. No, you are. Listen.

Well, I'm just asking you and understand, like, I'm not making, there's no bad guy right here for me right now. So I wanna make sure that's clear. I'm just trying to understand. I'm reading a message where you said, "I can't take this no more." Hold on, I'm seeing another one that says you called her, Kiesha, a dummy and a stupid B-word. And the state, you know, I'm looking at the messages.

This was after she done already done sent a voicemail to my daughter's phone, Latrice's phone, and said that if I left, oh well, I don't have to come back if I don't want to. She's still lying, bro.

This is my thing right here. She's still lying, bro. This is my thing right here. Latrice, did you really text your daughter the B word, I hope you die a slow death?

I did because of what she had been saying. Good Lord. I never said nothing like to you. I never wished you dead ever in my life. Her side of the story is not all true.

Listen, no matter what pain we're in and no matter what we're going through, I can't imagine what would bring you to say to your child you wish they die a slow death.

Because she has done that to me on several, she called the police on me. I don't know how many times trying to send me to jail.

Danger, danger, danger. Kiesha, why do you think your mother sent those texts?

I was supposed to be around my kids around her. 'Cause she done harmed me multiple times. She done tried to kill me in my bed before, in the bed. Your baby? Mom, you done hit me with my kids in my arm. Now you wanna lie? Your baby, I tried to kill your baby? You done tried to hit me with my kids in my arm. So you wanna sit here and lie on 10,000 kids? And I told you to put that baby down. And I told you for what? 'Cause you in my face? 'Cause your mouth was too slick. And yours is as well.

And I'm your mom. Hyesha, I need to know from you, what goes through your mind when you read your mother's messages like that?

That it hurts, it really do, 'cause I had never told her I wish she did. I never told her I would do that, I never, never can have a good conversation with her without her having an attitude or something. She said I'm always having one, and then she said nasty, say, let's see, I cleans up, I cleans the dishes, I clean my hands every time, so I don't see how I'm nasty. And the respect that she still here lying on this couch is getting on my nerves right now.

Well, this is the thing. You said also that you think your mother called CPS, that she's the one that asked you.

She did, 'cause that's the same day.

Did you call CPS?

She the only person, she the only one that knew I left Friday.

So why would you call CPS on your daughter?

I didn't call CPS on her. I don't know why she feels that way. This is not the first time. She was just at Apple today just trying to take her kids then. When she first had her first baby, she came to me, mom, I gotta get away from there. CPS on their way. Okay, fine, Kysha, come on in. You come on in, you can stay for a year. I thought she was trying to get her house, so I didn't ask her her for no rent, cuz I thought she was saving up her money, but instead she was giving her money to her baby's dad.

Kisha, I can see your anxiety and everything in your body language. What do you think then is the problem between you and your mother?

That she cannot stop talking the way she talks to me. She trying to control everything I do. I never respect— respect this lady. She always been doing a lot of stuff to me that that was wrong. She talk about enough to act— she put me out of 17. I was still in school. Girl, you was 18. I was 17. You was 18. I was 17. You went to jail and said when you was 17, love, but we moved and you had turned 18 already. You said love, but you don't want me to call you mama.

No, I don't. Why would you tell her not to call you mom?

Because I felt like she don't care about me. She called the police on me on 3 times for what? I didn't even do anything. Well, what else you did do, mama? You— I didn't even do nothing. She went to— I went and got her, my 2 9 babies, and she went to the hospital with the last one. And I said, she's right, I'm gonna keep thinking she's right. And I said, um, she's right, she let me keep the babies. And then she went into labor. The babies were soaking wet from head to toe, soaked and wet because they was in the rain. I kept the babies, brought them home, dried them up, put them in a bath, put them on new clothes and everything. And I'm like, she went in labor. I'm like, Kiesha, well, can I just keep them? Because I hadn't seen them in a while. Can I just keep them? No, my best friend is going to keep them. I'm like, but why, Kiesha? Why? Like, why can't I see my grandbabies? No, no. And then next thing I know, the police done came to the house.

See, I know you've been trying. I know you've been trying. Hold on, hear me out, Kyeshia. I know you've been trying. And Kyeshia, what you've been experiencing is your truth as well. What's happening here is that there is a cycle. These are generational cycles. And I'm gonna tell you, start off with you. You were 15 and grew up in a broken home and you had a child and you lost your childhood.

Mm-hmm.

You lost your childhood. And you never had anybody in that house that cared about you and loved you and showed you what to do. Mm-hmm. Am I getting it on the nail? Yeah, that's correct. And it hurt you.

It hurt you. And it's confusing me why she's that way now.

So let me tell you something. You tried your best as much as you could with the knowledge you had to try to be to be there for her. But what happened is you truly didn't have all the knowledge.

No, I don't.

You truly didn't have all the tools. No, I didn't. And what happened is unconsciously, the things that you went through in your childhood house, you brought into the house with your daughter. When I look at those texts, those are messages that you got from family members. Those are things that made you feel like you didn't, you weren't worthy. You told me right here, you brought that into your house because you didn't know enough.

Any better. This is my thing. When I didn't do none of those things though, I was really, I was trying to break the cycle.

Hear me out, hear me out. You think you were trying to break the cycle, but you didn't. And it's okay. You tried to break the cycle, but you didn't have the tools. And so even right now you're like, I tried to, but you gotta acknowledge I didn't break it. Because if you would've broke it, I would've never been able to read a text like, daughter, I wish you died.

It was, it's after that. It was after the buildup. I understand, I understand. No, it wasn't.

It doesn't matter the buildup. Hear me out. Listen to me, listen to me. It doesn't matter when it happened. You weren't able to break the cycle. And so what happened is that when anything that triggered you from your past came up, it just triggered you to go straight into what you were taught as a child. You're tripping me out. This is what you were taught. This is what you were taught as a child and you tried to break it, but you weren't able to because you didn't have the skills. Kyeshia, I'm gonna ask you a question because you are a product now of the cycle. I wanna ask you this because I've heard some things about going on in your family and I'm not saying you're a bad mother at all, but I'm hearing some things. Do you believe that the cycle is continuing with you?

How do you treat your children sometimes? I could say I could be mean here and there. You beat your—

No, no, no, don't do that.

'Cause I don't beat my child. Hold on, hold on. Or not.

But you just said, because you were almost there before, is there moments with your children that you think maybe I haven't made all the right decisions?

I could say so.

Yes, and I'm not blaming you either. Hear me out. You didn't get the tools. Either. You didn't get the tools. You didn't get the tools and you didn't get the tools. Neither of you are horrible women. Neither of you are horrible mothers. You are people that are in a situation where you don't know how to break the cycle. This is generational pain that is being passed down and down, and it can end with you, but it has to be acknowledged, and you gotta start to figure out how to communicate.

I have tried that with her. This is it.

I can't keep pushing myself to someone who don't want me.

Let me tell y'all something.

She blocks me. Let me tell you something. Hold on, hear me out. Hear me out, Kyeshia. You all unfortunately can't unbreak this cycle together. And so that's why y'all are going in circles. That's why it's called a cycle because y'all don't know how to communicate because only thing you're communicating from is trauma. So what I wanna do for you two is I'm gonna offer you therapy today.

Please retreat. I wanna go to therapy.

Can you make the commitment for me? Can you make the commitment to go to therapy to heal that little girl that's in you? To heal that little girl. The little girl in you. Everywhere. So that you can start to heal the little girl that's sitting there. She not gonna change. Can you commit to therapy?

Yeah, but she's not going to change.

The answer is yes. Just say yes. Yes. You can commit to healing that little girl. I'm going to give you, listen, I understand in the Black community we don't have access to therapy and the tools we need. I'm offering it to you. To you so you can heal that girl.

Okay.

Yes? Accepted. Well, joining me now is Latrice and Kyeshia.

Hey y'all.

Hey.

How y'all doing?

Hey Karamo. You both look beautiful.

Come through. Thank you.

Thank you. Yeah. Well Latrice, I hear you and Kyeshia are in a much better place since the last time I saw you two.

Please tell me what's going on. Well, Karamo, I just first want to thank you. Like, coming on your show has changed. So look, I'm almost about to drop happy tears here, so let me calm down. Okay, so I appreciate you so much for allowing us to come on the show and giving us some real insight into our life. And yeah, I appreciate that.

You're so welcome. You deserve it. You deserve it. Say it again. You about to call?

You gonna make me cry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, okay. Thank you for bringing me on your show with me and my mom. I love, and I built a lot of respect for myself and it built me to be more happier than what I usually would be.

That makes me so happy to hear because I could tell there was pain there and I just see the joy in y'all.

Like, do y'all see the joy?

Well, Kyeshia, you know, millions of people saw the clip where I begged you all to go to therapy. Did you keep your commitment?

Yes, I did. It helped me out with my attitude and me opening up more, not hiding it, you know?

Latrice, were you also able to commit to therapy?

Well, no, I didn't commit to therapy. I didn't, but— I'm still willing and open to therapy 'cause I think I need it. And I don't know, but me and her in such a good place right now, I was more focused on that.

Listen, I love that because the thing is that I can only give you a step or a tool, but then it's your journey. And the fact that you're saying you're open to it now, what you are saying here is what's true for so many people is that like sometimes you can be offered therapy, but if you're not in the space, you can't take it. And I love that you're like, Now in a space where you like, I feel better, I'm smiling more. Now I wanna go. Amen, I love that. So Latrice, you said being on the show opened your eyes.

How so? Well, looking at the clip and me saying some things, texting some things I definitely didn't mean and I shouldn't have had text in the first place and there's no excuses for it. And thanks to Kyeshia that she actually put the effort in to make that change 'cause without her it wouldn't, it couldn't be possible.

Yeah. Good job, Kyeshia.

Can't you hear your mama over here giving you props? I love you, mama. Kyeshia, you hear your mama over here giving you props? Yes, I try to.

Oh. That's beautiful.

So. And I give the thanks to my mother. Yeah.

Yeah, thank you. You two have a beautiful future ahead of y'all and I'm so happy for you. Y'all done set a pattern. There's gonna be 4 generations down the line now that are gonna be happy and healed, and they not gonna realize it because it started with y'all. Hey, okay, thank you. Good job. Well, thank y'all so much for being here. I appreciate y'all. I love y'all so much. Appreciate you too. Yes, I love y'all. Love you too. Well, listen, I say it all the time, I can't fix everyone's problems with one conversation, but I can give them the tools to start. And I'm so proud of you both. Keep doing the work. Thank you. To heal and be whole. And for everyone at home, thank you for being with us. Make sure to come back, friends, so we can keep talking and growing. I love you all. Welcome to the show, friends. Today we are solving a DNA mystery. My first guest, Hope, has been searching for her father for 23 years without any clue of his identity. But just 3 years ago at a gas station, she met a man named Tim. Who approached her and said, "I think I might be your dad, and I'd love to take a DNA test." Hope has been wrestling with this information for the last 3 years, and today she's finally ready to sit with Tim and learn the truth. Everyone, please welcome Hope to the show. Hi, Hope.

Hey.

Well, isn't this yellow pretty on you? Yes. And the bling? Work. I live. All right, Hope, tell me about the day that you met Tim at the gas station.

Okay, so my husband at the time, who was my boyfriend, was telling me about this dude named Tim. And he was saying, oh, how much I looked like him, how we had similarities in our eye color and everything. And I'm not even kidding when I tell you like 10 minutes later, we go to this gas station and this guy's like, hey, I was like, where's Hope at? So he goes out to the car and he gets me and I walk into the store and this guy's like, hey, I think I might possibly be your father. I would like to do a DNA test. Were you surprised by that? A little bit, yeah. Yeah, I can imagine. Who wouldn't?

Well, you gotta be shocked, like what?

Yeah, I'm like, okay.

So in that moment, why did you think that he could possibly be your dad?

I didn't, I really didn't, 'cause my mom had told me like for years after like he asked for the DNA test that it was like completely impossible, like she never did nothing with him. So, you know, I believed her 'cause she's my mom. But before I, like, I submitted the request to come on here and everything, I texted him, I was like, before we even go on this show, I would want to know like, why do you think you're my dad? Like, my mom said, you know, I never did nothing, like, it'd be kind of pointless to come on a show and you're not my dad, you know? [Speaker] Yeah, of course. [Speaker] So he told me this story And before that, my mom was telling me about the story how she was hanging out with some friends and she didn't know who the guy she was hanging out with, and she gave me the names and everything. Well, he tells me the exact same story with her friend. So I was like, "Oh, two and two's adding up now. She really did do something with this guy and she's, you know, lying." Yes. Yeah, it makes sense.

Yeah, a little. So what were you told about your father growing up?

I thought it was his cousin my entire life.

So you thought Tim's cousin was your father?

Yeah, for a while, until I was 14 and then we did a DNA test and he wasn't. Got it.

Yeah.

Yeah, okay. Yep. That's the first time I seen Tim. He was at the courthouse with his cousin and—

They did the DNA test with the cousin?

Yeah.

Can I ask you a question just to go back? What was your childhood like? Like? What was life like growing up?

It was rough. I lived from house to house. I didn't hardly ever live with my mom. Mainly family members. I jumped from my mom's best friend to my aunt, to my great aunt, back to my mom's best friend, back to my great aunt. I lived with my grandma until I was 5 years old.

So, and you have siblings, right?

Yes, I have 4 of them.

And do you, they're all sisters? Yes. And do your sisters know who their father is? Yes.

So, okay. Yeah, that's what I was trying to get, like how can you have 3, she has 3 different other baby daddies, but how do you know they're dads and not mine?

Do you think that Tim might be your father now that you heard that story and they line up?

I'm hoping, I really do. I have a lot of, I don't know how to explain it, but I feel like deep down inside maybe possibly he might be my dad. You know, just that feeling.

Producers say he actually tried not to come here today.

Did you know that? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Because the only reason that struck me is that because the fact that y'all are in a good space now, he came to you in this gas station, yet he didn't wanna come here.

Why was that? It was a lot of, drama with his situation at his house. What does that mean, like a girlfriend or what? Yeah, his girlfriend at the time didn't want him to come at all. I don't know why, I couldn't tell you why, but after we got the DNA test done and he texted me saying, "I'm not sure if I'm gonna be able to do it," I was like, "No, you're not gonna do that. We're gonna do this." Yeah.

So— Hold on, 'cause I just have to step back because when I hear When I hear information like that, I can only imagine the emotional toll it takes on you. What was that doing to you emotionally and mentally?

It was a lot. It really did hurt. Like, if I could explain it, it felt like my chest was probably just shattering into a million pieces. 'Cause you know, I wanna know, you know? Yeah, I'm sorry. But I wasn't gonna let him back out. So I pulled up at his house, me and my husband, and we pulled up and we told him like, you're coming. You're coming with us.

You're not backing out.

We're not doing that.

Yeah. I'm proud of you for that strength. I'm proud of you for that strength. You know, Hope has spent the last 2 decades trying to find information about her father until 3 years ago when she met a man at a local gas station who told her he could be her father. Everyone, it's time to meet that man who was at that gas station. Please welcome Tim to the show. How you doing, Tim? Good, good. Nice to meet you, sir. Nice meeting you. Yeah. So you asked Hope to take the DNA test and then you didn't show up, almost didn't show up today.

I let somebody talk me out of it.

Okay, yeah, what happened?

Somebody being selfish, I'd say. And I should not have let anybody stand in my way.

Like I did, or almost did. Almost did, yeah. Good thing you got this strong lady right here.

That was it, yes. She actually pulled up with my other two daughters.

She done—

Oh, you did?

Oh, they pulled up at the— They was like, uh-uh, not today.

That's hilarious.

So why do you think— Hope says she thinks that you're afraid of knowing the truth. Is that true? No, no. And as for myself, as well as for her, I was willing to do it for her. And I wanted to do it for the both of us.

Because for one, I didn't want a child growing up without me.

But for two, she's got the right to know. What's making you emotional right now? The things she might have messed up on. Yeah.

And I hate that for her.

But it hurts me. So part of this is also a little bit of guilt. No, I wouldn't say guilt because, um, her mom had said that, is because You were there when she was in the courtroom with your cousin. Yes. And you found out, how'd you go? Yes, my cousin had asked me to go and whenever the judge ordered him to take the DNA test and everything, an aunt of hers had called out in front of the judge and the whole courtroom that she wanted me to take a paternity test.

And I was ready, I was willing, I would have done whatever it took or I needed to do for the state or for a situation, whatever. Yeah.

But then you waited years. That's the only reason I brought up the guilt situation is because it's like your feeling of like she missed out, the things that she didn't have. There was a lot of guys in line in front of me that they had to go through. Yeah, and everything.

And yeah.

And is your mom, do you have a good relationship with your mom now?

No, I don't speak to her.

At all? No. Hope, what were the big moments that were missed in your life of not having a dad?

A lot of things, like learning how to drive and like, you know, small school. Changing a tire. Yeah, changing a tire, you know, school activities. Like I was in choir and I did color guard. You know, and none of my family ever showed up for any of that. So it was just me. Just a lot in my whole life.

You said there was a, just to use your language, a long line of men before you. Yes. That, you know, when you were considering a dad and you said you had two of them tested. Mm-hmm. Two of them. Has there, was there other guys that you knew of that were tested or talked to?

Not that I've talked to. I know that there was, like you said, two other guys. They said that there was other, there was another two more DNA tests, but I don't know the name of those guys.

Got it. Well, listen, Hope's husband Devin is here in the audience. I wanna talk to him right now. Devin. So Devin, thank you for being here today to support your wife. Why do you have concerns about Tim being Hope's father?

I just seen my wife cry a lot about missing out on that stuff and I just, I think Tim's a good guy, I just don't wanna see her get hurt anymore. I don't wanna see her miss out on that, I don't wanna see her cry anymore.

It's been a pretty emotional journey for her.

I haven't been here for the whole thing, but been here for enough of it.

I just don't wanna see my wife get hurt anymore.

If he is her dad, I want him to be there.

We have kids and stuff, and I think it'd be a good deal. I think it'd be a great addition to our family. Yeah, that's great. Thank you, Devin, so much. Listen, everyone, Hope has waited 23 years to find her birth father. And for the last 3 years, she's wondered if Tim was the dad she's been waiting for. Before we reveal the outcome of the DNA, Tim, are you ready to finally know the truth? I am. You are? What would this truth mean to you if she is your daughter? I'd have another daughter and I'd be a grandpa.

Aw.

You're a very sweet man. You're a very sweet man. Hope, are you ready to have these answers?

Yes, I'm beyond ready. Like, just to know I have siblings and my babies have more aunts, more family, a grandpa they can talk to. To, you know, a blood grandpa.

Yeah. Are you hoping he's your father?

Yeah, a little bit.

Yeah, yeah. Well, this is the DNA outcome. This has the answers of whether or not Tim is your father.

Are you ready for this?

Yeah, I'm ready. There you go. If you can open it and read out loud what it says.

I'm a little nervous right now.

Oh yeah? Take your time, I understand this is a big moment. I know, but she's gonna get a big hug.

Either way. Okay. It says, Hope, Tim is not your father. I'm sorry. It's okay. It'll be all right.

I'm sorry. Sorry. You've been set on this path that you had nothing to do with. It was your mother's choice. Choices. I wanna get your husband to come down here 'cause your wife is hurting. Can you come down here with your wife? Tim, I'm gonna thank you for being here. I'm gonna let them two have a moment. I can talk to them. Thank you so much. We'll see you backstage. You can see them.

But thank you for being here. When? When I'm 50? I just don't understand why she has to make it so hard. Yeah, yeah, it's so stressful. It's kind of stupid that I gotta find her baby daddy.

Yeah. No, it's very heartbreaking for you. And one of my things for me is I hate when I see adults who have to still deal with the pain of their parents who didn't make the proper choices for them. It breaks my heart. It breaks my heart. And that's what you're dealing with. You constantly have to like, you're fixing her mess from years ago. But I'll tell you the beauty of this is that you do have at least someone who loves you, who's around you, who's supporting you. So at least you're not alone in this. And I know it's not enough to fill that hole of not having your father, but at least you should know that you have this. Right. She knows I'm here. Yeah. Now you shared with a Facebook message you received yesterday with my producer, producers.

Can we take a look at this?

Yeah, if you want. So this is a man that hit you up and said, I know I should have reached out a long time ago, but my life has been a mess except the last year since I've been out and doing good, working and getting my life in order. If you're all right with it, maybe we could talk on here some and to get to know each other. And maybe when I can get the money up, we can check and see if I'm your dad. So I'm a big believer in Faye, I even got chills reading that because I think as you're coming on this show, the fact that you would get that message when you're arriving here and he's saying he doesn't have the money, I would love to support you and pay for him to come here to get you your DNA test and get you your answer.

Would that help you?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. 'Cause I don't want you to have to wait another 3 years like you did with Tim. How does that work? Does that work? Has it worked for us to give you the answers and help? Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, yeah? These things become personal to me because I don't wanna see you hurting. And I see the brave face you're putting on. I see the strength that you're trying to hold on, but I don't want you to have to live your life trying to be this strong woman. I want you to have to feel like you can actually get the answers you need. 'Cause I know you have the strength in there and I know you've been putting on a brave face and being strong your entire life and it's getting exhausting, right? I know it is. I know it is. And I'm sorry. So I wanna be here for you and help you to not feel exhausted anymore.

Are you willing? Yes.

All right, I'm here for you. I'm here for you. Give me a hug. I'm here for you. So please tell me from your opinion, what happened after the show?

Well, after the show, so I ended up taking another DNA test with the guy that we mentioned. Last time, he wasn't my dad. I did Ancestry and I kind of found some answers, but not like the direct answer to where I was going. And I kind of broke it down, but before I sent it in, okay, I told my mom, I called her, I was like, 'cause we were talking at that time. Before we stopped talking and then started talking again. So I called her and I was like, hey, I just put my DNA test in the mail. I was like, it's about to get sent off. And she tells me, oh, so-and-so could be a chance. I was like, okay, so where has this so-and-so been the entire time? 'Cause I've asked you repeatedly over and over and over who could be a possibility and you've told me over and over and over, I don't know. And I think you're lying, you do know.

And then all of a sudden she comes out with this name.

Yes, and then she comes out with this name and I was like, I'm like, okay, so I'll wait 6 weeks, you know, and the stuff comes back and I'm breaking it down and I tell her like, hey, actually I think he is my dad. And she's like, I'm busy, I gotta go, and hangs up.

So in your opinion, it's because of your mother why this is taking so long?

Yeah, I mean, I didn't sleep with all those guys.

Yeah, no, I understand, no, I'm with you, I'm with you. I just wanna make sure, because the thing is, when you tell me that the relationship with your mother is still back and forth, it sounds like the relationship is still toxic. How's your relationship with her as of today?

It's, we're working on it, I guess. I mean, I have a lot of mixed emotions right now, 'cause part of me is like, she's my mom and I wanna work on it, but then again, she has did me worse than anybody else has ever done me. One of the comments why she wouldn't help me figure it out at first is 'cause she said, You're an adult, I ain't gotta worry about you no more. I was like, it doesn't matter if I'm an adult or not, I'm still your kid. Yeah. You know?

And— What does your mother say when you ask her about your father? She don't know.

That's all she says? That's all she says.

She doesn't give you any other type of answers, anything at all?

No, she's like, I don't know, I was messed up and I was doing stuff I wasn't supposed to. That's not an excuse. 'Cause you gave me 6 different other guys' names, but you don't know who my dad is?

Has this search been putting a strain on your relationship? Is that what's causing the strain?

A lot of it is 'cause she don't care. Like, if she showed more sympathy and acted like she actually cared about me, I wouldn't feel the way I do, but she don't care. She's made it clear, like, we've been offered on the show multiple times. The first time it was it was supposed to be me and her and she said, I do not care. I don't wanna do it, so. There's no way that Andrew's mom and my mom were not talking about it.

'Cause y'all raised as cousins, so they got it, they're communicating.

Yeah, of course, so I even asked her, I was like, did you not sit back and think about it? She's like, oh well, I was hooked on so-and-so and I really wanted him to be the dad. It doesn't matter who you really want to be the dad, It's what you know. And you knew.

Why do you think your mother's never helped you?

She says it's because the dude that I think is my dad is a piece of shit. And I was like, it doesn't matter what he is. I was like, I have that right to know because I'm going through a lot of issues with my kidneys. I was like, I deserve to know my family's medical history. I was like, I deserve to know all that. There's no reason for you to hide it from me just 'cause you don't want me to know.

Yeah, this makes sense why finding your father is so important. Outside of just wanting to know who your father is, there's bigger things at stake when it comes to your health. Yes.

Did your mother raise you? No, everybody else in my family did.

Your mother didn't raise you?

No. Yeah, okay. She'll claim she did. Oh, well, her comment is, she says, I gave everybody else the right to raise you, so really I raised you. I was like, that's not how that works. But okay, I'll let you take credit. Yeah.

Do you hope that finding out the truth will also bring you and your mother closer? Or do you not care about the relationship?

I want a relationship with her, but like it's been 23 years and she's done said hateful stuff. She's done, her actions were very hateful. Her calling me names, saying like, you know, you're 23, I don't care. 'When I see you on the street, I'm gonna beat you like a trick.' You know, stuff like that. Like, you don't say that to your daughter. Yeah. I ain't gonna say that to my daughter. Yeah. Yeah, I just don't care anymore.

Yeah, yeah. If your mother tried to come back into your life and say, 'Let me try to be better, let me try to do better for you,' would you be open to it?

Yeah, if she's willing to change. But I've heard that so many freaking times, I can't even tell you. Like, are you really gonna change or is it just gonna be for a month or two and then you're like, I don't want nothing to do with you.

Got it, got it. What has she done in the past?

When I was 5, I remember I had a birthday party and I was living with my grandma and she came, I remember it like yesterday, she came for like maybe 5 minutes and gave me a balloon and left. I cried forever about that 'cause you know, what 5-year-old don't want her mom at the birthday? Yeah. And then like, you know, with her being in prison, I went through a lot. I had to go through therapy and stuff 'cause I was just so, drained because I wanted my mom. I was a teenager. I felt like she should have been there and she wasn't. Yeah, yeah. Because she could have made better choices and she didn't. And then she still says like, I did it for y'all. No, you didn't do it for us. You didn't have to do all that. Like, you could have got a job. You could have took care of us the right way instead of putting us through all that. There's no reason for it. And she says, "Well, my mom was like that. I don't know anything else. I'm not like that. I would never be like that. Never in a million years to my babies will I ever do anything she's done to me." So you're emotional right now. What's happening? It's just a lot because like I hear her side, but it's like I never get to tell mine. Okay. She's got the opportunity to have other people raise her and had the chances to see other ways of living is not what I was raised on. She's so quick to judge me and not realize how bad that affects me. And that's why we quit communicating because she wants to push me away. And I'm here, I'm here. You came today. I came. She's my firstborn, she's my daughter. And yeah, I wasn't there a lot of the time. I was a criminal, I sold drugs, I went to prison. I served my time, I did my crime, I served my time. But I learned from that. And what I have for my children today, I do have kids at home. It's not just Hope, I do have other kids. And I have had a lot going on. She wants me to just stop everything and make it about Hope. And I love her, I love her to death, but I can't stop my whole life just for this matter. It's just, it still don't make no sense. Okay, so you said you had other kids at home. To take care of. You have my sisters and then your friends' kids. They ain't your kids. We are your kids. You should have put me first. It don't matter. I'm your biological daughter. They have their mom. What about me? You pushed me away. I pushed you away because you caused it.

There's another person here that I want to talk to and get his side of this. It's time to talk to Hope's potential brother. Let's welcome Andrew to the show. Hope told me earlier that your father wanted nothing to do with, you know, this DNA and coming here. Do you have a relationship with him at all? No. None? I haven't had a relationship with him since I was a kid. How did you help Hope when you heard that you could be related?

I started texting him about the names that were popping up, but I guess he pieced it two-two together from her texts him about asking if, seeing if he would do a DNA test and then me asking about these names. And then at first he was saying a couple of 'em and then he just said, "I ain't saying no more." Got it.

And just— He just shut down. Yep. Yeah. If Hope is your sister, will it change your relationship?

No, not really.

No, we're really close.

You're really close. I really appreciate him, I do.

All right. Well, listen, it's time that we solve this 23-year-old DNA mystery. In this envelope is the DNA outcome. We've been here before. I've told you the last time you were here, you have been on my heart and mind. You deserve your answers. And as I told you last time, I will be here to help you no matter what is in this envelope. Lobe. Are you ready for your DNA outcome?

I guess not really, 'cause last time I came on here wasn't good.

Well, we're still praying and we're wishing that this could potentially be your brother right here, and then you'll have answers. Yep.

Here you go. Okay, I don't really— I really don't want to open it. Okay. Okay. Oh my God, thank you, Lord! Thank you, Lord! Yes! I'm so happy for you! Oh my God, he's your brother! He came You figured it out, you did it.

What does it say? It says Andrew is your brother. Yeah.

Oh my God. Come here, Hope. Oh my goodness. Come here, baby.

You got it, you did it, you did it. You did it, you did it.

I did it, I did it. You figured it out, you did.

You're so smart.

You did it. I love you, Hope. Oh my God.

Here you go, love.

You did it. I know.

He's got a brother. You now know who your father is. And again, like I said before, what a blessing that you were raised with your brother. You were raised, you know each other.

Yes.

He said, "It's your best friend." What's going on in your mind right now?

I'm just— if it wasn't for Bubba, I wouldn't be here and we wouldn't have figured it out. Yes. If he didn't agree to coming on here and doing this with me, I would never figured it out. And I'm just so— I appreciate him so much.

Yeah. Andrew, do you have other siblings? Yes.

Okay.

I was hoping she would—

if I found out I had another sibling, she would be— that it would I bet it would be a boy.

I bet it would be a boy because now I have 8 sisters. So you're the only boy?

She don't have any brothers.

That's your brother? Andrew, I gotta tell you, I feel what you're going through. I only have sisters, all older sisters. It's 4 of us and me. But let me tell you something, that's a blessing in life to be surrounded by women. You've been very blessed, all right?

And now you have your brother. For you helping me though.

I'm just happy. I'm just happy. I don't wanna take any credit for this because this has been you. This has been you not giving up on yourself. This has been you trying. This has been you making sure that you did the work for yourself to heal, to heal your family. You are, you're greater than you even know. Like there's a light in you and a greatness in you that I don't even think you even have tapped into yet. Because for you to have the courage to do this after all of that rejection and still never give up on yourself, still never give up on your answers, still never give up on your family, you deserve this moment. She does. I know you would have, you would've got here. I'm so thankful for you.

You got your sister.

You got your sister.

Okay. It's so crazy.

What are you thinking right now?

Like, it's crazy 'cause I helped raise him, I put him in timeout in the corner. I mean, and they was raised, the only boy in the family was Bubby, you know, he's Bubby. Just for that to be like that, it's amazing, and I'm so glad she got some answers. She figured it out on her own. She did. She really did, because I couldn't help her. I wanted to, but I couldn't. I can't believe it, oh my goodness. I'm so excited, I'm so happy. She's a private investigator. I was looking for so long and it was like on my birthday. On her birthday, yeah.

And everything.

It was like, I got you, Hope, just sit back and enjoy the ride.

Yeah, yeah. You made it here, you made it here and you now have your answers. You know who your father is. Will you try to reach out for a relationship with him or? No.

Yeah, yeah. I think he's worth more than— I just wanna, I really—

You just wanna answer the question. Answers because now you know. And especially with that health stuff, now you have Andrew. What's your nickname? Bubba? Bubby.

Bubby.

Bubby, that's you. Bubby. Bubs. Well, now you have Bubby that can give you some answers about your health. You all are able to go in together. Yes. I do think that there's a part of this relationship that now is able to heal. Mom, the big thing I say to you is you gotta just remember that from this point on, when she says she needs answers and stuff, As hard as it's gonna be, you took the big step of showing up today. She just needs you to show up. I know. She just needs you to show up. And as much as I know it's you wanna go, you've been rejected, you have to understand that her rejection is really more confusion. Yeah. She's just hurting. And I want you to remember that 14-year-old girl in you that was hurting, that felt rejected, that's what she's been feeling. And so I know sometimes you're gonna come up and say, you rejected me too, so I'm gonna lash back out. But you can't. You can't because there's a beautiful relationship that could be built here. It could really be built here. Yeah. And I think y'all can do the work. And if you need some questions, I'm gonna give y'all my number. Y'all can call me. I can help y'all through it. Okay? I can help y'all through it.

All right?

But good luck. I hope you did it.

You did it.

You did it, girl.