8 Times Sisters BATTLED It Out With Their Moms | KARAMO

Topaz, you wrong and you know you wrong. Mind your business and sit yourself down. Mind your business. Mind your business.

What's going on and what has happened from your perspective?

What's happening? If it don't go Topaz's way, it's the highway. With Topaz, she's always right. She always likes to bring up the past, which is wrong 'cause we all have a past at the end of the day. The end of the day, I'm your mother, Missy.

So first of all, Anita, I have to say I'm so sorry. I know it's been 2 months since you lost your husband. I'm really sorry about that. How have you been holding up?

I ain't.

You're not?

I just stay in my room in my bed and look at the picture where we talked to him like that and now.

Yeah.

It's just sad, lonely.

Tell me about your husband, James.

Beautiful man. I loved him. He was the world.

He was, yes. Y'all had a great relationship?

A beautiful relationship.

So I like that I got a smile out of you when you talk about—

I love talking about it.

But there was something that my producers told me, that you blame your daughter Brittany for your husband's—

Yeah, because she said that we was all in the living room, we was in there just talking and stuff, and he was just laying in the bed. And she said that she could have, you know, kind of like helped him, saved him or something, because she couldn't She could have gave him the oxygen, put the oxygen machine on him, but she left and she didn't do that. And that's the only thing that kind of like hurt me on that part.

She should have. So your husband was needing oxygen? He was on an oxygen tank?

No, he would've known it. They had brought one to the house in case he needed it.

Oh, got it. And so you're saying that you all were in the living room, he needed it in that moment.

She said when she went to the restroom in the room where he was that he needed, she said felt like he needed it. She said, "Dad, I'm gonna put your oxygen." But she left out the door, she didn't give it to him. And when I went and used the restroom, it's like he kinda like gasped for air, but when I said, "James Hussman," he didn't respond to me, so I jumped and got in the bed with him, put my hand to his nose, felt his stomach, didn't nothing. But she was gone already, but then I had to call and let her know, "Your daddy gone." So I feel like you could've helped me, you could've saved him, but if it wasn't your time to save him, you know, you could've been— Got it.

Okay. So how has James' passing affected your relationship with your kids?

Terrible. They loved their daddy more than they loved me. They didn't love me. They don't love me the way they love him. Oh wow. Because it's whatever he say, it went with them. But now I can say something, it don't go. It's a whole different story.

So what are you here today for?

I'm here to get some help to save my family with them. I wanna save us.

You do wanna save your family?

Yeah.

You do wanna save it? So you don't like this dysfunction that you're in?

No, I do not.

Yeah, okay. Well, I wanna go ahead and meet one of your daughters. I wanna meet Sabrina. Everyone, please welcome Sabrina to the show.

How you doing, Sabrina? I'm fine, how are you? Good.

What should I say? I know it's been hard for you 'cause you just lost your father. Your father 2 months ago. Sabrina, were you close with your father before he passed away?

Yes.

How close?

Very. We talked, we— I can ride by the house in the mornings, he's up on the porch. He's able to talk to without judging you. He'll give you good advice on what you need. My daddy been there. He's always been a father.

Yeah. But do you think that your mother is great as well? You know, I think you told my producers that she's such a giving person.

She does, she gives to Jamie and Bebe sometimes whenever they need. Only when they borrow my money and they don't wanna pay back and I want my money back.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But your daughter's saying they're giving, you know what I mean? I know you're, I hear your point of view, but your daughter's saying you're giving. Your mother's a giving person?

Yeah.

Yeah. So even though you love your father, you also see the good in your mother?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I always help. Before my daddy passed, like he always said, Sabrina, no matter what Sabrina needed or what they needed, No matter if I had to go to work or whatever, I was always come through them. He told everybody that in the family. So sometimes I don't feel like she see it though.

Yeah, okay. Do you wanna heal your family? Is that why you're here?

Yeah, 'cause that's what my daddy said before he passed. He said he want everybody to be together 'cause at the end of the day, all you have is your family.

Well, I wanna bring Jamie to the show right now because I'm trying to figure out why there's this issue. Jamie, come on out.

She's evil. She's evil.

You said Jamie's evil?

She's evil. She's very evil.

Jamie, welcome to the show.

How you doing?

I'm good. Your mother just said that she thinks you're evil. How does it make you feel to hear that?

I'm not evil, she evil. Like, it's, it don't feel, I don't wanna cry. Hold on. Tissue.

Here, tissue. I don't even hear you. How did it feel to hear that voicemail from your mother?

Okay, since I hear this all the time, I just laughed at it.

You hear this type of language all the time?

I hear it all the time, every day.

Why do you laugh when your daughters tell you this? Why do you think it's funny?

God, they funny.

Why? Girl. Jamie, do you think your mother's behavior got worse after your father left?

I don't like that. Yes, it got real bad.

In what ways?

She used to sit on the couch and mind her business, and if we get on her nerves, then she'll act up. Otherwise, Annette, soon as you walk through the door, get out. Get out. God, they evil. Mama, we not evil.

Is this a nervous smile?

Nah, it's about to make me go off smile.

All right, so your other daughter Crystal's in the audience. Crystal, how's it feel to see your sisters fighting like this with your mom?

Well, it makes me like, Sit down. She don't care about nothing. She don't. She mad. She put on this act. Look, you see how I'm acting? She put on this act as if she want a relationship with us. She don't want a relationship with us. You see, you trying to make stuff better than it is. Sit down. Mama, don't do that. Sit down. Why? Why? Why? Why? Hold on, hold on, hold on.

Why you telling her to sit down?

I asked her a question.

That was me that asked her. Why are you mad at her for standing up?

'Cause she gonna talk about me. 'Cause she don't like to hear the truth. And when the truth come to her, she don't wanna hear it.

Your daughter's crying.

She always crying.

How are your daughters evil? I just want you to tell me, 'cause you keep saying they're evil. How are they evil? Can you explain that to me?

'Cause they always got something against me. They say something bad against me. Mama, I'm honest. I can tell you. I said I don't wanna bring her on the show to make her look bad. I really wanna work this, like make it work. I didn't wanna come here and beg you. I didn't want the audience to be like, oh, she a bad person. No, you making yourself look bad. You telling— I am what I am. I'm being what I am. No, you're not because you told somebody that you know that you pushing us away. Yeah, like you know. And I told you like— If you know that you pushing us away, why continue to do it? And you our only parent we got left. Like why would you do that?

Everyone, can we please welcome Brittany to the show? I think it's important to have all your daughters out.

Yes, sir. Thank you. She angry, she angry.

Hi, Brittany, welcome to the show.

Hi.

So how does it feel to hear your mom say that you're the reason for your father's death?

It hurts. It hurts so bad. But That's who she is. She blame everybody but herself for all the stuff she did. Ain't got nothing to blame myself for. You left a bad message for Bibi too when you went and used, you bet you was the one for his death. Bibi was at her house crying like my mama, like you can't keep doing him like that. You can't blame that girl for my daddy's death. You got that girl crying. And I called her and I was like, Mama, what you do to Bibi? She was like, don't be calling me taking up for nobody. This is my sister and you my mama, I'm asking y'all, What's going on? You let somebody else call your phone and tell you a lie. Like, did nobody say that you was dead? We don't want you dead. We want you right. Every time I get paid, I take you out, don't I? No. Every time I get paid, I take you out to eat, don't I? No. I always. What you do? You don't show nothing. You don't care. You don't care, Mommy, you don't. You wanna be lonely, do you? Do you wanna be lonely? You don't want us around, do you? No.

Brittany. You received a message from your mother that said she felt like you were the reason your father died.

No, I was in her face.

She was in her face.

She was in her face. We was in her house.

What was that like for you?

It broke me down. My sister had to come and sit in front of me just because. And she was steady saying like, "It's your fault." And she was shaking her head like she doing now, laughing and shaking her head and said, "It's your fault." I'm crying. I'm telling her, "Mom, it's not." Like I already blamed myself because I walked in that room. I heard my daddy breathing like that. She said, "I heard him breathing like that all day. He been like that all day." I said, "Okay, well Mama." I went back in the room. I said, "Dad, I'll be right back. I love you and I'll be right back." He gave me his hand like this and I was like, "Okay, I'll be right back." I didn't come back straight back like I wanted to.

I stayed with my kids and she called me like about 10 minutes later and say, "He gone." So you weren't even able to talk about your feelings in the moment because your mother immediately started to accuse you?

No, she waited. It took a minute. I'm coming to her house all day, every day.

And then one day it started.

And then that day she just said it like, and I don't feel like that's right. I told her it's not right for you to blame me and I blame myself. That hurt me to the core. Like I can't stop thinking about that. That was on my mind all the time. It was like every day. Yeah, but we also got to get something clear too. My daddy knew he was dying. Somebody got to stop blaming the other person. Nobody killed him. Nobody killed him.

Anita, when you came on the show, you first said you want to save your family, and then I saw an immediate switch as your daughters started walking out one by one. What was the switch?

Them. She act like a child. She want to be a child. One more time, I'm going come over What was the switch?

Why did you all of a sudden, you said you like him.

I don't like him. Girl, bye. Well, get off the stage. You ain't left yet. I'm not leaving the stage. Well, don't holler about it.

You miss your husband.

That's the only thing I miss.

Okay, listen, I can see what's going on here. And the first thing is you are all grieving and you have not had any time to grieve what has happened. You have lost your husband and your best friend. You have lost your father. I was taking notes as you were talking and I was realizing that, okay, she's pushing them away. She's doing things and you kept saying they love their father more. I wanted all of y'all, can one by one, can you tell your mother you love her?

Yeah, I love you, Mama. I love you, Mama. It's hard right now.

I know it's hard right now.

But I do love her.

Do you love your mother?

Yeah, I love her to death.

Your children love you. When your husband died, the love didn't die with him. The love is still here.

Well, I feel like it is.

I know you do. I know you're grieving and you are hurting right now, but these hurtful words you're saying to your children is not gonna bring your husband back.

I know that.

Would your husband want to see y'all fighting on this stage right now?

No.

You're creating a narrative in your mind that's not true. It's not true. You are loved.

You said something right, Karamo.

Don't push your daughters away. You are loved and you deserve to be loved. You deserve to be loved and you deserve to grieve. You gotta receive it right now. Your family loves you and it's still here. Your daughters, love you. The love did not die with your husband.

Yes, it did.

It did not. It didn't. It did not. You don't have to use hurtful words and turn your back because you think the love is gone. The love is still here. Can you look at your daughters? You brought these women into this world. Look at them. They love you. Look at your daughters. I Look at your daughters, they love you. For just one second, they're happy.

She look like she mad down there. She mumbling over here. You say something and she crying out there.

It's because they're grieving. They're grieving. They're allowed to have feelings just the way you are, but that does not take away from their love for you.

I don't know about that.

When your mother starts saying hurtful things to you, I want your only response to be, be. Daddy loved you and I love you too.

But she used to treat him bad as well, right?

It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because what's gonna happen is you're going tit for tat. Y'all are going tit for tat right now when y'all are all grieving. The man that showed y'all all unconditional love is gone. And so now it's like, well, you did wrong, you did wrong. It's your fault. It's your fault. It's none of your fault that he passed away.

I don't blame myself.

None of your fault. I know you don't fully believe it, your mother loves you.

I know she do.

Come sit with your sisters, you don't need to be in there. Come sit with your sisters.

You might better stay out there.

You're 22 and I know.

I'm only 23 years old, you gotta understand, from the time I was a kid, I've been getting cussed out, I've been getting called B words, all this. When I ask her for anything, she'll tell me no. If I ask my daddy, she cussing me out, telling him, "Don't give that, don't give her nothing." It's always been like that. Nobody wants to grow up like that.

I know, and you didn't deserve it either. You didn't deserve it.

We come around you like we bring you nothing but happiness and joy. Well, you say we don't. We don't. We do. And the minute you start yelling at us, we start getting upset. All she do is smile and laugh. Are you getting happy from our pain?

She's not. She's not.

Cry now.

You gotta stop with the hurtful words. Listen, your mother just said something hurtful. This is gonna take deeper work than this moment. I'm gonna just be honest with y'all. This is just more like y'all know this is my life's passion is helping people and I can't try to pretend I can fix this in 20 minutes. I can't. This is deeper, especially you.

I won't be involved with none of you.

Yes, you will.

Not at the debate.

Yes, you will.

No, I won't. Yes, you will.

Listen, listen everyone, listen everyone at home. You just can't fix it in a moment. And that's what we're seeing right now. We're seeing grief and we're seeing pain. And I promise you and I vow, I'm gonna try to work with you all to help you through this. But we cannot do this right now. Sometimes things just don't have a happy resolution.

It won't be fixed after today. Not in my house. Don't shake your braid at your head. Don't shake your braid at your head.

Listen, I'm sorry y'all going through this. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Why did you call the cops on your daughter?

Eleyjah.

Mm-hmm.

I was at home in bed with my fiancé and we were laying there and Eleyjah came in from work. Now, Eleyjah was staying with us. So Aleyjia was able to use my car to go back and forth to work because her brakes was out on her car. Okay. Wouldn't do anything else. You would ask me before you take my car.

Got it.

So she came in from work that night and she went downstairs. And when she went downstairs, we didn't think none of it. We watching a good movie. And later, about 30, 45 minutes later, I'm like, "Honey, I left the clothes in the washer." He said, "I'll get 'em." And he went down there and he was like, "Elijah's not here and your car gone." So I immediately pick up the phone and I call Elijah and she's not answering. So I hang up again, I call her back. She's now hitting me straight to voicemail. Ignore, ignore.

Which is gonna make you more upset.

When she did that, I immediately, I got out the bed and now I'm standing there and I'm stretching. He's like, "Well, what are you doing?" I was like, "When she come up in here, she ain't got a clue about what's finna happen." And now I'm texting her, bring my car back. And she's like, what you need your car for, to go to the doctor? It doesn't matter what I need my car for.

She's in your car questioning why you want it to be brought back.

Exactly.

Is that the day she moved out?

She didn't have a choice. I said, you moving out. She unlocked the door and I was sitting on my recliner and I just sat there and I looked at her and I said, dropped my keys up on there. Get your stuff and get out.

Hold on, but my producer told me that she destroyed something in your house.

Oh baby, I ain't even got to that. Okay. I own a t-shirt business, so I got racks and racks of stuff. She's down there, I have equipment that costs over $3,000. She trying to get that off, but she couldn't, but she throwing everything else. She don't care. Brother and me go downstairs, I'm on the phone with 911 dispatcher and I tell them, I said, y'all better get here immediately because this is my house. This is my child, I brought her in this world and I will take her out.

Okay. Did it get physical between you two that day?

So while she's standing there talking, she's like, "I'll fuck that bitch." And when she did that, she was standing to the side and I just nicely, 'cause she's only a buck 10, I just nicely just pushed her and she went flying. So when she went flying, I just shut the door and locked it. And while I'm shutting it, she's kicking the door. She's steady, she's steady just kicking and kicking. My door is made of steel, you can't get through it.

Yeah.

So she couldn't get through the door, so she kicked my window out.

She kicked your window out, so.

She kicked my window out.

Have you asked her to come back in your house and live with you?

No.

Okay. Does she often act like that?

No, I need to find, that's why I called the show because I need to find out what happened to my baby girl. I don't condone that, I didn't raise her like that.

And I know your two other daughters are here as well. What's the relationship like with them?

I love all my kids. I love 'em dearly. I give my life for them.

Yeah, I understand.

So.

I think it's time that we meet Renee's youngest daughter, Elasia. Please welcome Elasia to the show. Hey, how are you doing?

Good, how are you?

Nice to meet you.

I'm gonna sit over here. Okay.

So what's your version of what happened that night?

My version of what happened is she knows I work late hours of the day 'cause I work a big-ass job. And I got off, I get off work at 10 o'clock every day. I got off work, I went to her house. I told her I was about to leave again to go somewhere to my friend's house. And I did. No, you didn't. Girl, please don't do that. See, I'm not your girl.

Why wouldn't you just contact her and say, "Hey, I have your car, this is why I'm taking it.

I still need it for work." I told her, I was telling her I was leaving. And first off, that car was not only used just for me to go back and forth to work. I was doing all types of stuff. Long as I kept gas in that car, I could drive that car. So I don't, I don't, it was. You know, you would always tell me what you had planned. You never just took off in your car. I always left in your car without me saying nothing. Don't raise your voice. Anyways, I got up in her face, I started cussing her out. I did cuss her out real bad 'cause I felt disrespected. Don't put my stuff outside this house. I'm not just a random person.

But from what she said, you were downstairs destroying her stuff. Were you downstairs destroying her things?

Yeah, I did.

So I know you had a warrant out.

And then she called the police on me knowing I had a warrant and knowing I could've went to jail. So that pissed me off and that hurt me. Well, you shouldn't do stupid stuff. Why would you call the police on me knowing I had warrants? Why didn't you answer the phone when I called your phone? Why didn't you answer the phone? 'Cause why you keep calling my phone and I'm already texting you? You pissing me off now. There it go right there.

Okay, but my question is, and I'm not taking any sides right now 'cause I'm really trying to figure out where the breakdown is. It seems like, from me, and I'm on the outside, It seems condescending in your statements back. Like, you need to go to the hospital again? If you really thought your mother needed to go to the hospital, your urgency would be different. It wouldn't be like—

She fakes so much like she's sick though. No, I don't. You do.

Did you try to apologize when you get home?

No, once I saw all my stuff outside that door, I'm not apologizing.

Okay. Well listen everyone, I wanna hear from your middle daughter, Icelyn, to see what she has to say about this. So everyone, please welcome Icelyn to the show.

Hi, how you doing? Hi.

Nice to meet you.

Take a seat. Nice to meet you as well.

Take a seat for me. All right, so from your point of view, what's your biggest issue with your mother? 'Cause she's saying she wants to rectify that relationship.

Yeah, I really feel like you don't know how to take accountability. You like to deflect from a lot of situations. And if I could be honest with myself, you've always been promiscuous as well and it's really affected our relationship. Yes. I do take accountability. You don't. Yeah, I do. I've been taking accountability and like I told, like I've been telling y'all, I said I do take accountability for any and everything. If you come to me and have a conversation with me, I'll talk to you. But you, Iclyn, personally, you do not come to me and talk to me. You'd rather talk to everybody else but me. Can I tell you why? I was depressed, I was angry, I was mad, but what I did was I started getting counseling. I went to my prayer room and I gave it to God and I was taught to build boundaries around me. So if I allow you to come into my life and I know how you are, you trigger me. You will make me go crazy all over again. So I've learned to love you from a distance. It ain't nothing that, I don't know, I just have to love you from that way. I love you, Mama, but you don't take accountability. I do take accountability. Look, I'm trying to talk to you and you still not letting me talk. Icelin, you not gonna be a bulldog, 'cause that's what you are. I'm not. Yes, you are.

Can I ask you a question? You called your mother promiscuous. Is, which is a very strong word. You told my producer that you feel like she's chosen men over you?

Yes.

In what way?

Yes. My mom has had over 40 different boyfriends. 40? 30. 30? 30. You are out your mind. Karamo, let me say this. Why is he talking over her? That is so rude. Let me say this. I learned a lot of behaviors from my mother. So what I did is I took counseling for myself. Now they keep saying every time I tell them I'm in counseling or I've been getting counseling, They say, well, the counseling ain't doing no good.

I'm not there. I can't see your records to know if you're going to counseling or not. So I can only take her word just like I'm taking your words right now. But I think I need to get back to this because when you say things like my mom's promiscuous, she chooses her boyfriend. When you say a number like 40 boyfriends, it sounds like that was a big point of contention for you.

Yeah, it was.

Did you feel like your mother didn't like you and that she liked men more than she liked you? What's the feeling you had?

I wouldn't necessarily say she didn't like us, but the mother that I've always known always needed, she was not that mother. It were times where we had no food because she gave them to her boyfriend. Are you serious? You a lie. I would work 2 and 3 jobs to make sure they had a roof, food in the refrigerator, everything. No, y'all need to stop lying. So come on. It was seasons of that. No, it wasn't no seasons. For the most part, Momma, you did not feed us unless you had a boyfriend. You a lie. Unless there was a man around, she ain't cooking, she ain't cleaning, she ain't doing nothing. And I peeped that too. I don't eat a bacon and potato in the microwave because of sweetie. That's because you chose not to come in the kitchen. Because your sister, Amma, she can cook. Elijah, you don't know, you basically don't know how to cook because I did everything for you. With you being the baby, I did everything for you. With you isolating, there was food and everything. You chose not to. You was always wanting to be with your friends. At an early age, you sat there and said, as soon as I get grown, I'm moving away from this family. Unhappy at home. I've always been unhappy at home. Home was not a safe place. Why does she keep over talking me? I don't like her. And you asked me a question. You said, what is— This is why I have to love her from a distance. I don't like being interrupted. I like to think that I don't interrupt you when you talk. You are severely aggressive with me and I don't like it.

Listen everyone, there is one more sister, the oldest, that's also involved in this. So everyone, let's meet I'm gonna call Mama right now. Mama. Hi, Mama. How you doing, Mama?

Hello. Thank you for being here. Nice meeting you.

So, please tell me, what was your relationship like when you were younger? What happened when you were 16?

When I was 16, I got pregnant and I ended up having a placenta rupture. Which I lost my baby. It was very hard, it was stressful.

Your mom called you names during that time?

Yeah, she called me a hoe. She was mean. Mama, don't act like you didn't. No, I wasn't. During the pregnancy, Mama, you were mean. I stayed in my room the whole pregnancy. You did not stay in your room. Yes, I did. I had forced— Why do you always talk over me but nobody else? Excuse me. Like I was telling—

Can I address that? 'Cause I did notice, You do only talk over her. That is the truth. I do notice that. She's the only one. Even when your youngest daughter was calling you saying even she, this one came out the most respectful and not saying you didn't come out disrespectful, but you came out—

Rowdy.

Wild. And you didn't interrupt her once, but you do interrupt the middle one.

I never noticed that.

You do it all the time.

Well, I apologize, Iclyn, that I keep interrupting you and overtalking you. Okay. If I could also add in, the reason I'm like this as well is you used to whoop us a lot too. Really? It made you who you are, baby. I hate when she say that. That's a trigger for me. That's a trigger for me. It made you who you are now. It did not. It did not. I asked what this baby made you blessed, didn't it? You believe that. That's not the true reality. That's not true. That's not. Because you ain't in jail, you ain't prostituting, you ain't doing none of that. The whoopings didn't help do that. Yes, it did. It did not. Yes, it did. Listen, if today, the way she whooped us was today, we would be taken from her. And I get that's how you were raised, but that is not normal. We would be two totally different women. I'm so much more passive with my kids, which is not the best, but because She used excessive force and that's not okay. And when she say stuff like whoopings in the showers, whoopings without clothes, that is excessive. Whoopings, throwing stuff, that is excessive.

You just said that you didn't have that?

When it came down to discipline, I didn't get whoopings like they did at all. She was a baby, she was in a house with me by herself. I definitely had special treatment. And by the end, I would say I matured more 'cause I had her at 18. 19, my son at 20, and Elijah, I believe I was like 27.

Yeah, you said something earlier when you said, "I don't even think my mom likes me." I don't.

And I think it's just because—

Do you think your mom likes you?

She might, I don't know.

So you're not sure?

I don't care though. I'm gonna say this.

Do you think your mom likes you?

Yeah, I think she like me, sometimes.

You paused.

Okay.

These young women are right. There has to be more accountability.

I don't know, when y'all say accountability, I keep apologizing and apologizing.

That's not what it is. They don't need the apologies anymore. They're saying they need you to hear them. But it's like you overtalk her. She's telling you what she went through and whatever, and you're defending it. She's saying, "Mom, I'm 17. I went downstairs and I did these things." And you're like, "Well yeah, you know this what." I just broke it down for you. I want you to take that timeline. I know you lived it, but I'm an outsider. Your daughter at 16 lost her child. Yes, you're mad because as parents, we don't know what to do if some child has a child at 16. You start to question yourself. But she was a baby that lost her baby and then all of a sudden had to become an adult. And I'm not saying you was a bad mom, but you also admitted by the time you got to your youngest, you knew better. So you can acknowledge that you didn't know better for them. So all they're saying to you is just acknowledge you didn't know better. Acknowledge that you really might have hurt us a lot and acknowledge that the pain is still here today instead of defending and saying, "Well, I tried, I did, I'm still." Am I hitting it on the nail? Am I?

[Speaker] You are, you are.

[Speaker] They need you just to acknowledge without defending. Hear them without explaining. Be with them and just support them and not have to show them like I'm better. Just be there. There is love that is here. But there's years of dysfunction. And I hope that you have learned a little something because I know if I say give an apology to them, it's just for TV. And that's not the point. The point is for you to gain a tool. And I wanted you to hear what I said. If you can acknowledge them and just stop yourself in saying, oh no, that's not what it is. No, that's not what I did. I promise you, your relationship gets stronger. I promise you. Your relationship with your family. Your girls, your girls need to hear. One thing I do want you to tell 'em is I want you to tell them each if you like them.

I love and like each and every one of y'all. Y'all are my best friends whether y'all know it or not.

Now that y'all can see that I'm giving her a tool to learn how to acknowledge y'all more, can y'all at least tell her y'all love her?

I love you, Mama. I love you, Mama. And I'll stop throwing the little jabs. I know I do it. I apologize for kicking down your door, cussing you out, doing all that belligerent stuff I was doing. I really do apologize. I'm sorry. I accept your apology.

Listen, I do see that there's love here. There just has to be a little bit more work. All right? Good luck to y'all. All right?

Thank you.

Your mother refers to you both as monsters.

Yes, she does.

How do you feel about that?

Honestly, let's just talk about it. I ain't touch nobody. But what can I do? My mother, she feels like we just a lost case. We grew up in foster care. So it's like, what are we supposed to do?

Kayla, how old are you now?

I'm 24.

24, okay. And Melody?

22.

22 years old, okay. So you both grew up in foster care?

Yeah.

Describe your relationship with your mom.

Me personally, I don't really have a real relationship with my mother. I don't really talk to her unless it's about my children. I just feel like I'm done with her. I grew up in a system, I aged out, I learned what it is to be in the streets. And I learned what it is to feel like you don't have no mother or for somebody to tell you like, I tried but I lost you, there's nothing I could do. So as a child, I felt like I was always abandoned.

So it's gotten physical obviously.

Yeah.

What happened?

Well, me personally, I put my hands on my mother one time, but this was like—

Is that with this woman?

No, that don't have nothing to do with me. She antagonized my little sister. Unfortunately, my sister couldn't be here today, but they got into a fist fight. I was on the phone listening. My mom fell and I heard she like hit the dresser or something. She went around town telling everybody that they beat the shit outta her. And ain't nobody beat your ass. You just sat up there and lied for everybody to feel sorry for you. Like you got these evil ass kids. I understand you going through it. I understand we not that easy to deal with, but you never gave us a chance to sit down with us and tell us, are you okay? Is there something wrong with you?

As a mother to you.

As a mother. But you sat up there and bashed us, threw us to the street.

Melanie, how do you feel about your mom?

As a grown woman, anybody who have a child, child, they should take, how you say, some accountability when they did wrong. Like I'm 22, I work 14 hours. I don't know how I'm a monster. I take care of the elderly people. I work in a hospital. I have a busy lifestyle. So I can't just sit here and take on my mom's life. You had 7 kids, we took 7 sins for each child. So I just felt like that's not fair. We all go through it.

That's very interesting words to say. You had 7 kids and we took 7 sins.

Yes, we did. 'Cause it's just like we all been through a hard thing. But one thing I can't understand about my mom lifestyle is why can you never take accountability? Like why you could never see you're wrong as a grown woman?

My producers told me that she, you told them that she stole your identity.

Not like she used my information for stuff. Like me and my sister stuff. The bill is for me. $45,000. The bill is in my name. No matter how you wanna put it, you can have like welfare or whatever, or however it goes, whoever name is on the bill, they're responsible. I'm 22. I'm not paying $45,000 debt that I didn't only do. You understand?

Life was tough growing up for you?

Yeah, it was. Like my mom knows, like I've been raped for 10 years. Like, and she don't understand, like, you know?

You said you were raped?

Yeah, for 10 years. In foster care. It's okay. I'm so sorry. It's just like in the sense—

It's not okay and I'm sorry.

No, it's not. But it just showed me how the world can be and it just showed me that you have to defend yourself. You have to be there for yourself.

When you told your mom about your experience in foster care and what happened, what was her response?

She was hurt. She was hurt. But it's just like, you can't do nothing. You put me in that situation. She tries to make them believe like, okay, I love you. And then be like, get the fuck out and slam the door. Literally, literally.

Yeah, you told my producer that you had to keep your transition from your mom.

Yeah, due to the fact, 'cause my mom, she say things hurt fools. You can't hurt me about my transition, I'm pretty. What you gonna say? I have what between my legs? Okay. It's pretty, it's very much pretty, you feel me? So I just feel like anybody who's a bigot in that area of society when people don't understand differentness, You're a bigot. No matter how you wanna put it, you're a bigot. Like you're close-minded, you don't care about it.

So understand, what do you two want from your mother today? 'Cause it sounds like accountability.

There's no accountability. She don't see where she goes wrong. Yeah, she do, she tries her best. You still do wrong, you understand? Just because you're trying to cover up what you did, that doesn't mean you're still like forgiven for what happened. Like, you know what I'm saying?

I want y'all to think about that a little bit more as I invite your mother out right now. I've heard, the girls' side of the story. And to be honest with you, I've been hearing Norma backstage this entire time. So now it's time to hear more directly what she has to say. So Norma, come on out.

Okay. Oh no.

Hey Norma, nice to meet you.

Come, let's switch seats. We gotta switch seats.

Okay. Okay, so what do you have to say about what you heard?

That these kids are monsters. Monsters.

Why do you call them monsters?

Because they're very disrespectful and they think that I'm a punching bag, I'm their target. So when they upset, they come for me.

Well, I wanna know what you were saying backstage 'cause I could hear you backstage. What were you saying?

That they feel like they can do whatever they want with me and it's okay. I'm tried my best with them. I've told them multiple times how the situation was, but they think they grown. And they believe that I abandoned them. I never abandoned them. If we gonna tell a story, tell it right. But don't sit up here. No, no, no, you tell it right. No, don't sit up here. No, no, no, I'm not gonna come here. Hold on, let me tell you something. I'm not gonna come here for all this sex right here. Don't sit up and tell that. I'm not here for that, baby girl. I'm gonna punch you in your face, 'cause it wasn't me. Who said it was you? So who was it? It was your sister. No, she didn't, Ma. Well, she didn't punch me in my face. Stop lying.

I wanna know from you, how do you think you got to this point?

'Cause they feel like I'm the one of, I'm the bad guy of the picture. I've tried with them throughout all my life. You only look for me when you need me. Nobody needs you, Mom. Oh, you don't need me? Nobody needs you. I raised your kids. No, you didn't. How the fuck you raise my kids? Look how beautiful that is. This is what this is about. This is the kids that you think that I'm gonna be a bad dad. Because you wanna talk to people like me. No, I'm talking to you. You have kids. You act like one. I'm not sitting here like, I didn't come here to make sure for nobody. And I said it, I'm not perfect, but I've never let these kids behind.

So you're saying your kids were in foster care and you were there?

Yes.

How is that possible?

While they was in foster care, they was coming and going back and forth. We had visitation. Basically, all right, when we did get taken away, my mom, she did do, you know, she did do certain things, she did do it. I would never take that from my mother. But once again, you have to grow up. People can't give you back kids or give you what you want when you not going and putting no effort in. No effort, no effort. They would've gave you back your children if you was clean, you had a house, if you had a job, if you had everything as a stable woman.

Were you on, I get it, you're right, you're very much right. Were you on drugs during that time?

Back then, yeah.

Okay then.

Yeah, but I did everything I could possibly do, I did it. But the problem is that this drags for a whole lot of fraud with the system.

Okay, so you told my producer that you feel like you were unfairly blamed.

They blame me for everything.

And you don't feel like that's fair?

I don't. And I don't owe them nothing because the minute you have all that energy to put your hands on me and hurt me like I'm a piece of crap, well, guess what? I don't feel nothing for you. I love them, but I can't be around them.

Norma, why did you call ACA? ACS on.

Tell her why did that happen. You— can you ask her why?

I did. She said she doesn't understand.

She didn't understand why? Will you tell this child the reason why I called ACS on this child? We're not going to talk about that. She left the kids alone in the house and was with a guy in the field while I was in Queens. I ran all the way from Queens to Red Hook because her daughter was outside by herself because they were alone. We not doing that. We're not doing that straight like that. We're not doing that. Shut up, because you're not telling the truth. We're not doing that straight like that because you're a liar. That's why. And you still to this day can't tell the truth though.

Kayla, you brought a text exchange. You brought a text exchange between you and your mother. I wanna see this text exchange.

This point, you can't even spell. Listen, this is my point. Hold up, wait, let me show you. This is my point, you dirty ass little bitch. This is why I got recorded so people could see what type of time are you on, grateful. But blah, blah, girl, bye.

Stop playing with me.

This is what she does. Every time she don't get her way. Get the fuck outta here. This is not what it is. I just wanna know, did you send it? Yes, but you gotta see why. But you have to see why. If I scroll over on my phone, you will see the things, the things, and why we already have a lot of issues. She makes her life, but you can't do that. You can't do that. You can't do that. So what? So what? You had 7 kids and you got all of them talking with Karamo. Really? But really?

Really?

Do you know the reason why? Yeah. How many times Really?

I understand, I understand. I'm not arguing with you. I'm trying to see, I'm seeing your children's side. And one of the things about me is I'm always, always gonna be fair. I'm always gonna try to see other people's side. So I know you showed up here today. You had to have showed up for a reason. Why did you come?

Why do I come? Because I want justice and I want these people to believe and know that things that they say is not truth.

So you didn't come here to repair care?

No, yes, but apparently that's not what they want. That's not what they want. How? How? Because look at your actions. What the fuck is you talking about? Right, you telling me that you want me to freaking feel— I want you guys to really, really be, I'm sorry, Mom, or I'll be like, I'm sorry, but sorry for what? That's my point. For what? Open your ass to be open your ass. —to be a grown-ass woman.

Hold on, do you feel like your daughters owe you an apology? You feel like your daughters owe you an apology? Of course, because—

What apology? She's 60 years old. The fuck I owe her apology for?

What I owe her apology for?

Don't play with me.

I wanna know how you feel about this.

Don't play with me, 'cause Sean can come out. I'll beat anybody up. Don't play with me. Don't play with me, Ma. Don't, don't play with me. Me who?

You heard me. All right, everyone, listen, there's a lot of family drama that's going on here. We're gonna take a quick break. So we can unpack this. Do you wanna heal the relationship with your daughters?

Yeah, but if it's gonna be like that, I don't know why I would.

The answer is just yes. The answer is yes. Yes, yes. 'Cause your daughters are in their 20s and they're in a lot of pain too.

Yeah, and so am I.

They need you to put your pain aside and just hear what they've been through. I wanna make sure y'all are taking baby steps. If I bring your daughters back out, can you just hear them without making any defenses? Well, I'm not even gonna say nothing. You will? So can I bring them back out? Mm-hmm. Okay. In the intention of healing. Yes. And so you'll be able to listen? Yes. I believe you. All right, can we bring, I wanna bring Kayla and Melody back out. Okay, so ladies, the floor is yours. You talk to her from your pain, from your hearts about what it is. Just be a mom.

I guess, like, you know, have a nurturing feeling. Be more attentive as a person, as a human, as a mom, I guess.

What do you need to say to your mother?

I try to understand her, but when she's wrong, I can't side with you. What is she wrong about that you need her to hear? That she don't love her kids.

Can you assure your children that you love them?

Can you assure your daughter that you love her? I tell them every day of my life, I love them, I love them. When these kids don't call me and you gotta see, I call them and be like, what the fuck you calling me for? Who says that to you? You have said that to me. On your own dead mother, I never said that. Don't play with me. Don't play with me. Don't play with me. You don't say, what you calling me for?

Don't play with me. This is the unfortunate part about this today is that there's too much pain here to unpack. Yes. And y'all are too close. But it takes day by day.

And this is just thought. I won't think about her. She's irrelevant. I don't care. When it's her time to go to the king, don't call me. I don't care. I didn't get there. I don't care. You grow up. But Mom, it's what you said. It's what you said is what happens. So it's okay for you to call us monsters? So what are you?

So can we start there? Can we start here?

So what are you?

Hold on, this is what we're gonna do. This is what we're gonna do here. Can you at least, as their mother, when you leave this show, 'cause I'm about to end this now, can you at least from this point on realize that calling them monsters Calling your daughters or your children monsters, the other children as well, they're not here, is not going to help you get the relationship you want with them. So can you commit to not calling them monsters anymore? Or demons. Can you tell them you will not call them out their names like that anymore?

I won't call them out your names no more.

Can you do it in a way that, no, we're not gonna clap for that because that—

No, we're not gonna clap for that. I was capping. I won't call them out their names no more. Ma, be genuine though. But I'm telling you. Do you mean it though? Just say you're not gonna call us names, that's it. That I'm not gonna call you a monster? Yeah. No.

Well, there we go. There we go. There we go. I wish y'all the best of luck. I really do, sincerely. And I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I love you.

All right, everyone. Yeah, Carla, I want to start with you. So how's your relationship with your mom?

My relationship with my mom has been great as a child, but recently, growing older as an adult, um, again, there's been some overstepping of boundaries. One of the main reasons that we get into arguments is regarding like my body image, my weight, or my relationship. Things that really don't, you know, as I get older, have more to do with me and not with my mom.

What has she said about your weight?

I don't wanna hear all the time that you think that I'm getting smaller, whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. My weight is my issue. I've worked a long time on my body image and I feel confident in myself and I love myself, so.

Beautiful, I love hearing that. Yeah. What happened in Cancun last year?

This was my mom's first time out of the country, her first time on a plane, and we were going to a family member's wedding. It was a really big thing for us. I bought a bathing suit that I felt really good in. It was my first time going out of the country. I wanted to look good, and it's just constant ridicule. She didn't like what I had on. She didn't like, she just didn't like it.

[Speaker] Got it. To be that vulnerable and to be in a moment where you're excited about something and have someone you love and respect say things to you that can tear you down, I'm very sorry. I really am, I really am. Amaya, you feel like your mom is interfering with your relationship? [Speaker] Yes.

[Speaker] How? [Speaker] I am a lesbian and I proposed to my fiancé. [Speaker] Your fiancé. Hey. Hey. I proposed to my fiancé 2 years ago. The first ridicule I got from her was, "You got on your knee, so you must be the man in a relationship." And I was like, "Hold on, honey. I am no man in nobody's relationship." We are two femmes and we're proud of that.

Amaya, what are some of the hurtful things your mom tells you? And tell me about her temper as well.

Her temper is, She's very, if she doesn't like it, then she's gonna tell you she doesn't like it. But it can be yelling. Like, I wanna have a conversation with you without you yelling at me or telling me. It's like the smallest thing. If you were successful in school or you have graduated or done with college already, then you would, you have this type person in your life or your fiancé wouldn't be on the verge of leaving you. And we're not on, we're not to that point yet. We haven't even discussed leaving each other yet because she's successful and I'm not. And I don't feel like I'm unsuccessful. I think I'm growing steps to get there, but everybody's on a different timeline.

But your mom points those things out. Mm-hmm.

Like, if I don't ask you for advice, don't give it. But when I ask you for advice, give it to me.

I hear it. Listen, it is something that I practice in my personal life with my kids, with my partner, on this stage. I'm always like, So what do you need my help with? Do you want my advice? Because the thing we have to learn is just because you got it in your head doesn't mean it need to come out your mouth. Yes. And that's an important thing.

None of us have finished college, so she sees us going down that path. Yeah. And instead of being constructive with her criticism, she's angry with her criticism. She's not okay with it. It's almost like it's coming out of a place of fear. Fear, yes. It's, you better finish school or she's gonna leave you. Or as far as our relationships, what are you doing? Like, what does this person want you for? Like, what relationship? What are they really seeing in you to be with you? Like, why are they with you?

Ooh, did she say that to you about your weight as well?

It's more so— Do you think it's come from a place of fear? It's more so of a place of fear. Like, when she thinks someone is talking about me, when she thinks someone is laughing at me in public, it comes like, boils up in her this anger and she's a mother bear wanting to protect her child when I didn't ask for protection. I don't care what anybody has to say about me. I love me. Amen. Nobody's gonna come to me and make me feel the way they want me to feel.

Okay. So I'm here with Carla and Amiyah who say they need their mom to change her attitude before it destroys their family. Before we bring out mom, let's hear share what she had to say.

Karamo, my daughters are overly dramatic, and I don't understand why they think we're that dysfunctional that they needed to write into your show. My kids gang up on me all the time because they're mad at the way I raised them. Y'all asses are grown, and you're on your own. I'm trying to take care of myself now, but to some degree, y'all still around, and I'm still raising y'all. I feel like my daughter disagrees or hates when I tell her she needs to lose weight or be more healthier. And my other daughter needs to find out who she is before she starts jumping into new relationships. She needs to be her own leader instead of being a follower. I have told my kids exactly how I feel from day one because I love them. And as their mother, I feel like that's the way it should be.

All right, everyone, please welcome Deonka to the show.

I love you. Like, I know at the end of the day, when the dust settles, I'm going to be there. I've told you several times, look, I don't care if it's a good compliment, a bad one. I don't care. I don't wanna hear it. That I honestly did not know. I was telling you that I am proud of you if that was But that was a journey that you were on. Why is that the stepping stone for you to be proud of me? Why is that the stepping stone for you to be proud of me? I didn't hear us out. You don't see me on a CPAP machine, you don't see me walking, waddling around. It didn't start out like that. It didn't, but I got that together. I have been well, healthy and well for years now. But still, that is the first thing on your mind. I— Is that the first thing on my mind, or is it your health and me not loving you? You're saying it as a healthy situation, but like the Target situation, that wasn't you worrying about her being healthy. You thought somebody was talking about her. Okay, Target, yes, because I've seen that. Did they come up to me? Did they come up to me and say anything? Whether they have or not, I'm letting them know. See, you don't need to let them know. There's nothing to let them know. No, I know I do. You have a temper.

And attitude too. And attitude. And when did that come out?

Well, it's with them. I mean— When she don't want you to say nothing she don't wanna hear. If she don't wanna hear it, if she don't like it, she don't wanna hear it. With them, it comes off because like now, this is a surprise to me, for me to be here with my daughters and find out how you really feel about me. Mama, what do you mean find out? These are conversations we have had time and time before, but they turn into arguments, so I guess no one's And you don't listen. Once you get to a place where y'all can act out. But we don't get a word in. We can't get a word in because if it's not your way, you don't wanna hear it. Sorry, if I see it, I'm gonna call it. And that, because I know, I know in my heart who's going to be there. At what point do we get to be adults? Because if you were not around. You were there every day. No, if you were not here to protect us, we are gonna have to figure it out on our own. We're trying to protect you, but if— Yes, you are. Yes, you are. And we're not saying it's a bad thing. We're saying it's because we know, I know from what you told me, the love and the care that you did not really receive growing up. And instead of sugarcoating it, no, you didn't receive it, you wanna give it to us, but you're too overstepping with it. You are too mother bearish with it. Okay, so when things go down and it happens, And it's hurtful. And then we come to you. Okay, that's what I'm saying. But when I've already told you this and I've done it to you a couple of times, let us figure it out. So you get hurt again. You put me in the same predicament again.

Why are you afraid to let your kids figure it out?

Because when they get hurt, they come to me. I'm hurting. That's just life. So definitely. But that's just life.

Do you feel like they're capable of making their own choices?

I do. I mean, I'm very proud of them. They're independent. She lives alone. She has a job. She works. She's taking— I love the fact that she is a great mother to Ryan. I love that. You know, I mean, but it's just like, I know what's out there too. And I'm sorry, it's hard to lay those swords down when I know potentially someone else may have the upper hand and hurt my child. I don't know how to separate from that. Yeah.

I wanna hear what my audience has to say about this. So I wanna take it to the comments.

Comments.

Does anybody empathize with what the mother is going through? Yeah. Yeah, you can? Come here, I wanna talk to you.

I have a newly over 18 son and he's my only child and I'm a very hands-on mom, so I understand mom and he's always by my side, right? But you have to separate, you have to give a little bit of room and like she said, You have to let them fall on their face so they could come into their own beings because guess what? You can't be there to save them every single time. They'll never be an individual that way and you don't wanna be carrying them at 40. That's a good point.

Thank you so much. What is, Dionka, what is your fear when it comes to your daughters and them failing?

Well, her, it's because of my granddaughter. You know, I don't want, I want my granddaughter's life to be better than mine, better than hers, better than ours, you know?

So you wanna make sure your granddaughter's in a stable home? Yeah. And what's your fear for your other daughter?

This is my middle child and they never say anything. For me to hear her, I hear her today. I have no other choice. But to hear what she's saying to me.

That's a good place. The fact that you're saying you hear them, I think we can go from there. I think it's important as young women that I know you do respect your mother, but I think the expectation of how fast she has to grow, you have to manage that expectation. Yeah. And understand that she is trying to grow at a pace that's going to be able to support you. And this is not to take away and say that she's wrong for the things she said. I'm gonna get to you, Mom, I love you. But I have to acknowledge that. You have to be able to see that. Can you see what I'm saying here? Yeah. I think it'd be an important start if you can say, Mom, we love you and we're gonna manage our expectations of how fast you're growing.

Mama, we love you and we are gonna manage our expectations. You are growing. You're growing.

And I know you've been a protector. I know you have tried to do everything you could possibly do in your mind and you're trying. I'm looking at it, I'm watching you. Every time you hear something, you're like, Damn, I didn't know. Okay, damn, I didn't know. So I wanna acknowledge that in you, but I also have to say there is some things that you have said that are damaging and you have to be aware of that. I have been writing down some of the things. You've called them dramatic. You've told them that the people in their lives are gonna disappear. You've told them to be healthier. These things, even though you think are protecting them, as a third party, I'm already sitting here and just meeting you were jarring to me. It was hurtful for me to hear you say that to your daughters when I know your daughters love you so much. You have raised some really great women. Thank you. Yeah, give it up. Thank you. You don't have to be so fearful about them going down the path or that road you already been down. And I think you have to change yourself from responding to them in this place of fear and responding to them to a new place of hope. Because what your daughters are telling you is that they need boundaries. And it's really boundaries in your communication.

I'm sorry, y'all. I want us to be better. I'm gonna do better. You have given us everything and I know that. But when I set a boundary, I just mean as an adult, this is where I wanna draw the line because I wanna grow from here.

You hear that? You gotta allow them to invite you in. And so you have to ask yourself, and this is gonna be your challenge, when you're talking to your daughters and you're about to say something, first, it's not coming from a place of fear, think about it from a place of hope. And then secondly, say, did they invite me into this conversation? Did they invite me into talking about her weight journey? Did she invite me into talking about her relationship or where her kid is? And if the answer to you is no, If you didn't get a clear invite from them, then you just say, okay, I'm just here to listen. And I know it's hard because I do the same thing. You can give it up. I do the same thing with my sons. And it's something that I'm actually actively practicing right now where I'm like, you know what, y'all 20, you 26 years old. I really wanna tell you what to do because I already seen you got this little girl right now and I'm going in my own personal business right now, but I watch it. And sometimes I sit there and he He calls and I say, you know what? You didn't invite me in. You didn't invite me in. So that means there's a boundary right there. And so I say, all right, just talk and I'm gonna listen. And then sometimes I'll do this. I'm like, you ready to invite me in? You want my opinion? And sometimes he'll be like, yes, Dad, I do. And the more that I've let him invite me in, the better our communication's actually gotten. Okay. It's actually gotten a lot better. And I'm encouraging you to do the same. Can you make that commitment and say, I'm gonna hold this this fear-based language that I use when I'm talking to y'all, and I'm gonna wait for y'all to invite me in.

I'm gonna hold these fear-based words. Yeah, good job. That I hope that I give to y'all, and I'm gonna wait for you to invite me in.

Do y'all receive that? Yes. Yes. Do y'all believe y'all mom? Yes. You do? Yes. Good. Y'all are a great family. Y'all are a great family here. Good luck, all right? Thank you so much. I respect you all very much.

I respect all of you. Karamo, I'm stuck in the middle of my feuding sisters, and it has been this way for as long as I can remember. The last time we were all in the same room was 4 years ago, but we all live in the same area. I'm tired of seeing everybody else having these perfect families, and mine can't even get it together. When my younger sister LaDonna asked me to come on the show, I thought she wanted to work on our relationship. LaDonna and I have had two fights in the past. But LaDonna and Tonya have never seen eye to eye. They always put me in the middle of it. Karamo, I need your help unlocking the root of the problem when it comes to my two sisters. It feels like it's always turned back on me. I've been called names, and I'm tired of being walked all over. We don't have any family trips, no holidays together. On my mom's birthday last year, Tonya kicked my mom and I out of her house. I'm about to be 50 years old and I'm getting too old for all this nonsense. Our mom is getting older too and I feel like we need to come together before it's too late. Karamo, will you please help us fix this?

Well, listen, I'm certainly gonna try. You know, LaDonna wrote into the show and I was about to bring her out, but first their mother Alice is also here in the audience. So I wanna talk to you really quickly, Alice. How are you doing?

I'm good, how are you?

Good, you look beautiful, by the way. Thank you. I'm coming to you first because I can only imagine what this is like for you.

This broke my heart. It's awful. Yeah. Yeah, all the drama, unnecessary drama. Yeah. And it's causing me a lot of heart pain in my heart. And I'm not young anymore. I am, but I'm not. I get it. But I don't claim being old. But anyway, I love my girls, but they just can't get along. Connie's more like me. You know, we have a problem, well, we don't add a fuse to the fire. We just kind of back off and be quiet. But it still hurt each of us in our hearts.

So what's your relationship like with each of your daughters?

Well, with LaDonna, which we call Peach, we had a very good relationship. A good relationship until I moved in with her, and then it started, our relationship started drifting apart. But with, uh, with Tonya, it's been very difficult with me with her. I watch your show all the time, and you were helping some other sisters, and I thought, well, this would be a great opportunity for me and my sisters to go on there on your show because I would love to travel with my sisters. I would love to spend lots of time with my sisters, but it's usually one with the other, not all of us three together.

So you said to my producer, you think this all comes down to jealousy on Tonya's, on Tonya's jealousy.

It could be a great possibility of jealousy.

Okay, why do you think Tonya's jealous of you?

I feel like number one, the relationship that I've had with my mother, she's the oldest and she has never, as long as I can recall, have ever had a relationship with my mother. And so my mother and I, we have done so much together. Trips, we go shopping, we eat. Everything that I do usually with my children, and sometimes I do things with her without my children.

So you have the best relationship with your mom?

Well, I have had the best relationship with my mother, yes. And I have done the most for my mother, and Tonya is just not She's not there.

You and your older sister Tanya have not seen each other in 4 years, correct? Correct. Okay, but you live 20 minutes apart from each other? Correct. Okay, how are you feeling right now, the fact that I'm gonna bring her out?

I mean, that's what we're here for. Bring her out. Yes. You got it. Okay then.

So why do you think she thinks she's better than you?

Thank you. I wanna know. Because she have a house and a car.

'Cause she says those things.

That's what she said. No, I don't say those things. I never say those things. She's not better than me. I never say those things.

Can y'all tell? What happened when Ladonna was 18 and you fought physically?

I had an 8-month-old baby in a high chair. I cooked at my house and invited my family to come to my house. She came and was acting a fool. No, I wasn't. She knocked my baby out of her high chair and I got upset and she said, "Oh, so what if she got hurt or not?" Pissed me off. So I choked her. You didn't choke me. I choked you. And you see the mother is laughing because she thinks that's funny. I don't remember all that. I don't remember about the choking, that's why I laughed. But the thing about it was so much drama. And then my mother got the ambulance and they came and helped her. She thought Ronnie kicked her. And then my mama fell on the floor and started playing like she was having a heart attack. To stop it. I wasn't playing like a girl. You didn't have a lot of sex? No, I passed out because y'all had too much going on for me. And it's sad.

You think your mom likes the drama between y'all?

Yes. Do you feel that way? She feeds off of it. Sometimes, yeah. She feeds off of it. I think the reason why she don't like me, she said because of something I said to my mom when she was younger. Is that true? She was very disrespectful to my mother. No, I was not. Yes. I was not, you were more disrespectful to mom.

So your mom said something to you, I mean Tanya said something to your mom when she was younger that you heard about?

Well, I was standing there listening. She was 3 or 4 years old. I was not 3 or 4, I was, no, I was older. How old was you? When she disrespected my mother, I was probably about 10 or 15 years old when she disrespected my mother.

Tanya, can you describe your relationship with your mom? It's very iffy. Iffy in what ways?

I feel like my mom makes difference and she, upholds them compared to me. And I've always felt like I was the outsider and I wasn't good enough. Self on the outside. Mama, you denied me when I got pregnant. Denied you how? 'Cause I didn't go to college when I was 20. Oh girl, please. She's lying. I put that on God. Well, you know, I really can't. You've always You gonna have to repent. I told you. Ain't gotta repent. Don't start that drama, baby. It's real. She is. I'm not fake. I don't need no fake news, 'cause I feel like you the reason why we don't get along. I agree. What you mean? Connie will come out. There's two of us. We agree. Connie will come out and straighten all this out. She is. Y'all don't get along because you're two peas in a pod. No, 'cause of you. You know, Mama, I go all that my way for her birthday and spend expensive gifts and stuff. What that had to do with it? And to try to show her that I love her. I know you did, but what that got to do with me being in this relationship? I feel like she got close to y'all, right, girl? I agree with you, but you gonna be mad at me, mad at her for being close to me. Oh, girl, where you get that at? That's how I feel. I'm telling you. Well, don't feel, tell the truth. I'm telling the truth, Mama. Well, Connie will come out and say that I was cheating. Charlotte's a flat. Connie is gonna go along too 'cause she's still trying to be your friend.

She don't want you mad at her. Well, you brought up Connie.

I wanna hear what Connie has to say about all this. Bring Connie out.

'Cause she's still stuck in the middle of all this. So everyone, please welcome Connie to the show.

Yeah, I agree. It's mama. Yeah, I think you don't like me because you scared of mama. It's mama.

Hi Connie, nice to meet you. Connie, so please tell me, how do you feel about what you just heard so far?

Karamo, my family is a mess. My mama let me know, and I do feel like I'm stuck, and I'm always telling them, you know, this is your mama, this is your sister, you shouldn't do this, you should overlook this, overlook that. And I'm always— Yeah, what is it that you wanna do? I overlook it all. You talk about everybody all the time. I want us to be together. I mean, I do. If Peach made me mad, yeah, I talk to you. You my sister. If you make me mad, I talk just like how Mama do. That made me feel like I shouldn't trust you, 'cause if you doing all that to me— You telling me you don't go to your kids, or you don't go to Mama and talk about yourself? Yes, I go to my kids every night. Well, that's who all I have. I go to Mama, I go to Peaches, I go to his.

Your daughters only have this bad relationship because of you.

Well, maybe so, but I don't see it.

Well, I'm gonna try to paint a picture for you. Okay, okay. Because I feel sad for you all that you don't have the relationship that you could be having. Correct. And these girls need you to heal their pain so that they stop fighting. Yeah, yeah. Connie, I saw when I just said that, you started crying immediately. What's the pain you feelin' that your mother needs to heal?

I do feel like my momma's just, I just don't want my momma to be mad at me. I don't want her to be mad at me. Oh girl, please, don't say that. Stop, I just cannot, I don't feel good, I don't feel me. She told me to tell the truth and that's what I was doing. Now she don't wanna hear the truth, so I don't wanna say it. She don't remember her child 'cause she blocked out her whole child. She blocked it out, I hear you. No, she have not. Yes, she have, momma, she don't remember nothing. No love for us, no remorse. She is just terrible. You are terrible. If we told you, Mama, you would tell her, get over it. Oh my God, when I told you how many times I had been molested, you said get over it. I don't know what you've been through. Alex, are you ready to take accountability? Whatever I need to do to heal.

What do you need from her?

What do you need? To be a more loving, caring, compassionate mother like everybody else. Okay, yeah. So when did you not get the love and caring compassion? Never. Oh, you're— you ought to stop. Never. You, you didn't? Never. Well, what do you say? I treated her better than y'all. Yeah, speak up. She did buy stuff for us. Now that what you did, you did make sure we had materials. That's what I said, she bought, she bought. That's the only way she said that she loved us is buying stuff. I might not have said I love you. Still don't. Well, when I say I love you, what else would I supposed to add to it? Uh, be more compassionate, loving, caring.

Do you know how to be compassionate? She does.

Yes, she does it. She doesn't. I hug you. I don't, girl. I hug you and you run. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. You got to be ashamed. What it is, you're not listening. You're not hearing the right story. You're not. 'Cause what it is, this is drama for your show. No, it's not, Mama. It's the truth. And her would do. It's the truth. I am her. I always have been her. Tanya, listen.

So this is what I'm gonna do. So this is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna take a moment and I'm going to have Connie sit back down. Okay. And what I'm gonna do is actually have, I'm gonna have you step backstage and I'm gonna come back and talk to you in a little bit. Is that okay? Okay, good. So that way we can talk to you a little bit here. Let me help you up. Okay. Yes. I'm gonna come back there in a little bit. Okay, all right.

'Cause she mean and old, she set in her ways.

Yeah, but that's no excuse. It's no excuse. That's something that we constantly use, especially I hear it in the Black community all the time. Well, they set in their ways, so that means, and I don't believe that everyone, if you still got breath in you, you still have the ability to grow.

To change, yes.

That's what this whole show's about, talking and growing. So I know for a fact that it don't matter if you 10 or 110, You can still grow. Mm-hmm. Yes. So I do agree violence is not the answer. I do agree. I do agree with that. But I will also tell you that I watch right now what happened is that because of what she's done for so many years, y'all fall back in that pattern quickly. She made a comment of how she's gonna protect herself. Mm-hmm. Yes. This is what we do as children of abuse. And your immediate response was, well, if you do something, I'm gonna attack you. Because she's taught y'all how to pit yourselves against each other. Yeah, she— I watched it right now. So there's this deep empathy and pain and love y'all have for each other where it's like, I'm so sorry you went through this, I'm so sorry you went through it. But at the same rate, she's conditioned y'all for so long that if someone's about to challenge her, one of y'all better come to my defense if you want my love. One of y'all better come to my defense if you want my love. Because at the end of the day, y' all are still all little girls that are searching for her love. Yes. So what y' all have to do, this first step I can give y' all to break this pattern is that when she does something to one of y', all, y' all can't fall for the patterns and the tricks she's had before. Yes. You can't then say, "Oh, well, if you do something, I'm gonna attack you." "I apologize." Ooh, that was a big step. I ain't even have to say it. Did you hear what your sister just said? She apologizes. "I love you." Now y'all gotta apologize to Connie too. Let me tell y'all why. Because Connie, y'all have, because she doesn't handle situations like y'all, y'all made her feel less than too.

You're getting the better of us.

Connie, I wanna let you know something. The fact that you haven't always spoken up doesn't mean that you're weak. No. I need you to hear that. Doesn't mean you weak, doesn't mean you flip-flopping, doesn't mean you a punk, any of those things they were saying before. Because the language they were using before is the language they got from their mother. The second part of this is that once y'all realize that's not you talking, that's mama talking, can y'all do that for me? Can you commit to doing that? If you hear your sister say something that makes you feel hurt, can instead of saying, "You know what, let me lash out on you," say, "That's not you talking, that's the pain." that Mama put on all of us talking. Can y'all commit to saying that? Yes.

Yes.

Yes. 'Cause that is going to help your relationship. So when she says something that come out aggressive, that's not her talking. That's the pain. That's Mama talking. That's coming out. That's the years of her training you all to be this way. When she gets aggressive and her short fuse, what that is is that's her trying to defend that little girl who's trying to fight against what her mama's taught her to say. What you say. Same with you. It's all of y'all are just doing that. So once y'all can start committing doing that, and y'all said y'all commit to doing that, the second thing is stop trying to pressure her to do something. The minute y'all, whatever y'all need her to do, y'all need to turn to each other and say, can you turn to me and love me? Can you turn to me and tell me that I'm good? Can you come and gimme the support? Everything y'all need from her, y'all gotta figure out how to get from each other now. Right. Okay. And I believe y'all can be better. And if something go wrong, I'm gonna give y'all my number. Y'all got me, okay? Okay. I'm gonna be there for y'all, all right? Good luck, all right? So we were all talking before the show started because I just was like, oh my gosh, poor baby.

So how did you fall out the window? It was actually through a domestic violence situation. Okay. And so after that happened, well, I hurt my back and I hurt my foot as well. And it happened about 3 months ago. But it did happen simply because of when God sits you down, he sits you down. Yeah. Ain't that the truth though? Yes.

Okay. And you moved in with your daughters after this? Yes.

And you were hoping to mend things? Well, yes. I have lived a life in the last 18 years of so many different masks. And now that my masks have been broken, when I came outta that window, it broke everything, you know? And it was just time. And I've taken both of my children through a lot. Men, money, sex, drug use, ripping and running, different things like that. And Tiana, my youngest, she's the one that's been with me throughout all of that. Tiara, she was back and forth with me and her dad. After I got outta surgery, my daughter was there, my oldest daughter, and she told the doctors, "My momma's coming home with me." And that meant a lot to me.

[Speaker] Yeah, of course it did.

[Speaker] And then my youngest daughter, she's living with us. So that just, you know, meant something to me that we're all here together. Different circumstances have brought us together finally. But you're here. We're here for a reason. I called the show just because I felt like, you know, we're under one roof, we are grown. Now that I feel I'm changing and I've been given the chance to live to change, 'cause I almost didn't make it. So I wanna take this chance to be with my family and be with my children, but in a different way.

I hear that. Yes. I hear that. So what are you hoping for today?

They're gonna respect me. And I've allowed that to not happen. So that's definitely something that I wanna talk to about.

Why do you think you've allowed the disrespect?

Because of the life that I lived, I kind of just said, okay, well, you know, they're just mad about it. I'm gonna let them be mad. A little bit of guilt, you think? Yeah, definitely guilt. Definitely guilt. But I just was like, okay, I'm gonna let them be mad because I deserve it. But all in all, I didn't. There's not a book that says this is how to be a mother. My children were never neglected or put in the system, and I'm thankful for that. You know what I'm saying? I wanna let them know some of the things that to be thankful of that I did give them instead of always the negative.

Well, I think it's time to hear from your daughter. So everyone, let's bring Tierra out and hear what she has to say. So please welcome Tierra to the show. Thank you for being here.

Hello. Hey. How are you?

How do you feel about what was just said? Okay, I see you didn't wanna hug your mother.

We're not really, we don't really hug and stuff, so that kind of felt forced and I didn't wanna force something because we're sitting out here.

Y'all have never been like an emo, like a, An emotional family? You've never talked about your feelings, showed affection?

Talked about our feelings, yes, but as far as like showing affection and stuff, no. Got it. Okay then.

Do you feel like you're getting the real story from her? No. Why don't you feel like you're getting the real story?

Because she had told me 3 different versions when this had first occurred.

You're talking when she fell out the window?

Yes, correct. So that's why I don't feel like the story The story is all true. And whenever she was in the hospital and I seen her the day after, she had left her phone and text messages was coming through from neighbors and I guess other people who knew what had happened. So the story that she told me was not the story in the text messages. You checked my phone? Yeah, I had to get your phone, so yes. Okay.

The text messages— So you didn't know she checked your phone?

You checked your phone? No, I was under, I was in and out.

Got it, got it, got it. So what do you think happened then?

I think that my mom was involved with some type of drug deal, owing somebody some money. And when he came to collect the money, she didn't have it because she hadn't been working and a physical altercation had happened. And from there— That's not true. But that's not true. Okay, so that's not what the text messages said. Whenever you had texted somebody, you know, saying, "Bring this amount to my apartment, this amount of money I have," and then not even an hour after that is when a situation had occurred. And it was very much a shock to me and my family because she was supposed to be on the Greyhound to come be with my grandmother, asked us to send her money to get on the Greyhound, And she was not on the Greyhound. We got a call that she was in the hospital. So one, where did that money go? And two, why wasn't you at the Greyhound? Mm, got it. Okay, I can understand what you're saying about that. And there was a situation, but the person that hurt me, I did not owe him money, but it was some drugs that was going on that were being sold. Yes, but you're just now saying that. That's not what you were saying at first. So did you know the guy? You didn't know the guy? I mean— I didn't. I knew of him. So why would he want to hurt you if something else was going on? Because I wouldn't allow him to sell drugs in my house. Why was he in your house if you only know of him and you didn't know him? Why was he even in your house? He was brought over to my house with a friend. Why didn't the friend help you before you got pushed out the window? She wasn't there, but how I met him, it was through her. So you felt comfortable with somebody that you that you knew of being bought to your house and just left there and your friend just left them there. I'm not buying that story.

Okay. Has your mom had a history of drug abuse? Yes, I have. Yes, she has. Okay, for how many years?

Over 18 years. Over 18 years, okay.

Yes. What is happening in your house right now?

It's very awkward in my house because me and my mom, we don't have a relationship. And then me and my sister, she's just very smart, Alex. Very defensive, and them two is thing one, thing two. So it's them against me, is how I feel. Um, why would you feel like that? I'm not against you. How am I against you? When y'all team up, it feels like y'all are against me. It's like y'all versus me, and that's how it's always felt because she's been with you, you know, majority of her life. So it's like you guys are closer than what me and you are, and When I come home, I go straight to my room unless I— And this is your house? Yes, unless I cook food for everybody, then she's in the living room. When my sister comes home, she goes to the room that I gave her and my sister's in the living room. So it's like I don't even have my living room. And then, you know, like I gave my mama my bed. I've been sleeping on an air mattress for going on 3 months, but I didn't wanna leave my mama or see her left for dead because She's burned so many bridges, she had nowhere else to go. And at the end of the day, regardless of what we've been through, that is my mother. I feel like whether you're my mother, my grandfather, my grandmother, my sister, the hurt and the disrespect cannot continue.

So where does your sister stand with all this?

To me, it's just like, as long as she got somewhere to sleep, shower, and eat, she's like fine.

Okay, do you feel like your sister's also doing drugs?

Oh yes, I feel like my sister is a mini version of what my mom used to be. And I'm glad that you did say used to because I want to see if you would give me a chance to be a different person than I used to. Are you willing to give yourself a chance? Oh yes, ma'am. You can't bank on other people giving you a chance You have to be willing to give yourself a chance and you have to trust that, you know, you have to just be honest. Yeah. Like to me, I feel like you've been in prison, jail, majority of my life and you would write me letters. I promise I'm gonna change. I promise I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna be a different person. And then it's like the same thing year after year after year. So it's like if you're not committed to doing that to yourself, what makes me wanna believe you now that you're And I can understand that. And I do understand that. And like I had asked you for your forgiveness, but I'm just asking, even if we have to go to counseling together.

So why are you living with your sister?

I was in a bad situation in Ohio and ended up homeless. Got it.

And how's it been with you living with your sister?

It's fine sometimes. Sometimes it's awkward, like she said. Why is it awkward? 'Cause your attitude, I mean, sometimes we don't get along. Or your attitude. Both of ours, I guess.

How old are you again? 25. 25, okay. And how old are you? I'm 28. 28, okay. Well, that's a lot of responsibility for a 28-year-old. Yes, it is. Were you two ever close? No. No? Why not?

We didn't grow up together. Didn't grow up together. She never wanted me around actually. No, that's not true. Yes it is. That's not true.

What is it?

I just feel like me and my sister was on two different paths. Like she was, she started having sex at an early age. She was trying to move that fast life and that just was not for me. So the things that she wanted to do, I was not into doing. Right there, that age gap and not having maturity and stuff. And then as she got older, As she got older, the drugs and the alcohol and stuff, "Tiara, what are you calling me for? I'm sleepy, leave me alone. I don't wanna do this, I don't wanna do that." "Oh, I'll do it later." So it's like over time I just stopped inviting her.

Tiana, you told my producers you feel like you can't talk to your sister.

Why? No, not really, 'cause the way her response is, like I just, she's really judgy. She feels like anything that anybody tells her and it's not what she wants to hear, you are belittling her. But I am not in a position to be able to take care of 4 people right now. If I had it and I was in a position, then I would, but honestly, I'm not right now. And then also, it's just becoming a little bit uncomfortable and too much in my own household. I can understand she wants her mentality in her house back. Yeah. Yeah, I can understand that.

It's not a problem. You get it. Yeah. Tamika, well, we have the results of your drug test. Best. Okay. Yeah. Um, so I think we should get to those. Okay. Um, and this is the, the truth of if you're still using or not, correct? Um, Tamika, you tested negative for marijuana, opiates, cocaine, and methamphetamines. So you're completely drug-free. Good, that's a start. Yes, it is a start. It's good, it is a start. What do you think of that? I'm proud of her. You proud of her? Okay, yeah. Um, I mean, I said good and I was clapping.

You're welcome. I ain't going to hug you because it ain't right yet, but— and I, and I appreciate that, and And I do appreciate, because just like you said a little bit ago, I was still in my ways and things have changed. It has evolved with me, with us being together under one roof. I've seen a lot that I know I need to change and have been changing.

Yeah. Well, the one thing that I'll tell you that I see very clearly on this stage that you need to change is you need to get comfortable with confrontation. Yeah. Because your two daughters should not be fighting right now. The reason they're fighting is because you got put in a position to be the caretaker, to be the more responsible one. And even though you're still trying to hold onto that, it's called a strain between you two. 'Cause everything that I've heard been going on between you two, you should have been stepping in and saying, hey, don't worry about it. Because you're a young woman. Yeah. You're gonna make your choices, you're gonna make mistakes, mistakes, you're gonna do what you have to do. You are allowed to be able to grow. But right now you put a lot of expectations and feel like your older sister is judging you. And I understand why you feel that way. I would feel the same exact way. Like if everything I do, you got something to say about it, of course I'm gonna feel like you judge me in every bit of moment. But as much as I can see your side, I can also see her side. That I'm trying to help you not repeat a pattern pattern that we've seen in our family before. Yeah. And I'm trying to help you to say, while also equally being young, you know, it's not like you have an older sister who's 20 years older than you or 15 years older. She's 4 years older than you, 3 years older than you. So she's still trying to figure it out while you're trying to figure it out, yet she has to have the answers. But at the end of the day, the person who's supposed to really be responsible for you is the person who is sitting right here. Who has not been responsible for you.

Yeah.

Have you talked to her about that? Kinda, sometimes.

Okay. It's like a quick conversation. And why?

Why has it only been quick? Why haven't you talked about it? She, her.

'Cause she's not comfortable with the confrontation.

Yeah, I think so. Okay. What do you need to say now? 'Cause I'm gonna help your mother get comfortable with the confrontation.

I just want her to do better. That's it.

So there's a big step that's gonna, 'cause you're picking up her same patterns. You do know that, right? You know that?

Yeah. Yeah.

I kind of see that. Because I'm watching right now and I'm giving you a space, a safe space because your mother's also open, which a lot of times on this show, mothers aren't always open. She's open enough to hear what she's done to you. 'Cause she keeps saying it, you've been there for everything. I know what that's like having a parent that you're there for everything. You're there to see everything that's going on. That affects us differently when you have to watch that. And as a young woman, I know you're still trying to process that, but you gotta be able to express that. You gotta be able to talk about what that is and how it's affecting you. Because if you don't, you're gonna spend a lifetime trying to self-medicate to forget it. And that's just the truth of it.

And you're right about me having to, but I wanted them to get it out and talk.

Especially you. Because what's going on here is that she's gaining more strength because she's in a sort of a different power position. So she's finding the strength to be able to say, you know what, I can't deal with this. I can help, but you gotta move out. I gotta be comfortable. I can track this story, but you're not there yet. And so for you, what's happening is that you're feeling alone, you're feeling isolated. What do you think from your own point of view would help you to get outta that feeling? Just one of those feelings.

Having these two more around, more positive, I guess. Like me coming around more. Maybe more guidance. More guidance. More, you know, help. Got it. Not help, but like, you know, like—

I got it, I got it. Even if it is help, you deserve help. You're 25.

Yeah. You do. I feel like I'm 30 or something.

Yeah. So Mom, you hear what she's saying? She needs guidance. Yes. She needs guidance from you. And it took big sister to have to get this guidance, but she needs it from you. Yeah. Do you think you can give her guidance? Yes, for sure. Now. Now. We've taken a small first step here. We can't go that much further. Yeah. The thing that you gotta do is, like I said again, is be ready for confrontation. Your daughter's looking for guidance. I'm proud of you for taking and setting boundaries. Thank you. It's the best thing you're doing right now. Learn from that as well. Learn from that. Learn from the boundaries he's setting, okay? And know that you're your own woman. Know that you are your own woman and you are going to have the life that you want and deserve. And you're 25. I promise you, I've said this a million times on this show, if you would've saw me at 25, girl, none of y'all would've thought I'd been on a talk show giving advice, okay?

None of y'all.

Okay? Just start to listen to your heart more and listen to people who love you, all right?

Right. All right, good luck with this. Thank you. Good luck with this, all right?

I need to know what happened.

So my sister was having a wedding. Okay. And she asked me to be one of her bridesmaids. I was told that I was supposed to be walking down separately and it's because the grooms did not feel comfortable because they told the grooms that I'm transgender. So that's why the grooms did not wanna walk down the aisle with me linked arm in arm.

So was that exactly what was said about you? Yes. Okay. And how did that make you feel when you found this information out?

I felt betrayed by my own sister because my thing is as a Black trans woman, I go through that a lot on the outside world. But my own sister, that was kind of, You know, shit. Yeah, yeah. And what I don't like, for one, I wasn't sleeping with anyone in that wedding, so I feel like there was no need for my information to be told to anyone. And second, it seems like someone is insecure or something of me because like, who goes to a wedding and just like, if you were in an interracial wedding and they told you, oh, I don't feel comfortable walking with you because you're Black, you would feel some type of way too.

Preach. So I mean— Preach. That is, whoever that man is, I hope he is watching because that makes him a very insecure little man, the fact that you couldn't walk with a strong, beautiful Black woman next to you. And so I understand how you would feel that way. Yeah. Yeah. So you confronted Topaz about this, right?

I confronted her and she, This is a cold bitch. She is a cold bitch 'cause she made it seem like I was blowing it out of proportion. She made it seem like I was doing the most, I was ruining her wedding. She told me, "You don't show up, I don't show up to any of your lifetime achievements." And I said, "You go low, I go submarine. You don't show up, I don't show up to your funeral." Now that's harsh, that's right there.

Okay, so this is a text exchange between you all. It says, are you in the wedding or not? No, I thought about everything and I no longer wanted to attend. Tell to keep my name out of his mouth. He's not hard to find out here. If you wanna keep my nieces away from me, two deuces. But like you say, I can't have my own kids anyway, right? Until you learn to respect, I don't want you nowhere around me or mines 'cause your attitude is not it. Is not what I want my kids to think is okay.

What did I do to disrespect anyone? Simply stand on principle and not wanna be in a wedding because I was disrespected? Uh-huh, got it. I don't understand that.

Did you attend?

No, I did not. I stood on that. I did not.

Okay. It's interesting because half the audience has mixed reactions. Half of y'all are feeling like she should have attended. If you felt like she should have attended, please clap. Okay, so then the rest of you feel like she should have stayed. If you feel like she may, She made the right decision and didn't go. Clap. Okay, interesting. Thank you. So when was the last time you spoke to your sister?

The last time I spoke to her was that text message right there.

Wow. And so Topaz says you ruined her wedding. Do you feel like you ruined her wedding?

I don't. You're painting a picture as if I'm homophobic. Huh? And one thing I'm not is homophobic. I'm not saying that's what you said. I asked you, can you be a part of my wedding? Correct? I did not ask you. I said, can you be a bridesmaid? Correct? Okay, okay. It was 5 men that were the groomsmen, okay? Okay. They already knew you before you even transgendered over. So it's not my point to be like, oh, these men— No, you told them. You took it and you blew it out of proportion. You blew it out of proportion. No, I did not. I even asked you. I said, I don't care what nobody has to say. I want you to be a part of my wedding. No, the fuck I did not. And then I asked you, if you don't want to be in the way, can you sit in the back? Can you sit in the back?

Because I want you to be in the back.

I met you there. You did not say all of that. I am not homophobic at all, so do not try and take that picture that I am, because I'm not homophobic, and you know that. So you know that I used to help you do your wigs, your makeup, everything. What about those other comments? I can't— What other comments? That was the first thing you said.

She blew it out of proportion. What happened?

I asked her to be a part of my big day, right? I'm not playing the victim. She agreed. Okay, my husband's groomsmen, they already know Indi prior to her transgendering over. Transition, yes. Transition, yes. So with that being said, I said Indi, they had a problem with holding her hand. That was the only issue, okay? I said, you know what? I don't even care about none of that shit. If they got a problem holding your hand, I still want you walking in my wedding. I don't have a problem with that at all. Yes, I did. Because if you would've said all of that, I would've still attended. You're missing a point. You're wrong and you know you wrong, Topaz. Topaz, you wrong and you know you wrong. Mind your business and sit your ass down. Mind your business. Mind your business. Mind your business. You need to mind your business. Mind your business. Mind your business. This is why I'm here.

Donna, I wanna welcome you to the show.

Thank you. Thank you.

These are your daughters. And clearly I just saw a media obviously that there's tension between you and Topaz because of the way that you all communicated there. What's going on and what has happened from your perspective?

What's happening? If it don't go Topaz's way, it's the highway. With Topaz, she's always right. She always likes to bring up the past, which is wrong 'cause we all have a past at the end of the day. At the end of the day, I'm your mother, Missy. Oh, you talking to me? Yeah, I'm talking to you. Oh, okay. And when things don't go her way, I don't get to see my grandchildren. Mom, you just put me— you just put papers out on me and my— on my children to try and get full custody. No, no, I didn't try to get visitation rights. I did not try to get full custody. You tried to drag me in my house to get grandparents' rights because you couldn't see the kids. Grandparents' rights. No abuse or neglect, so the grandparents dropped.

Wait, 'cause I wasn't expecting this part right here and now something new has opened up.

She's a trifling drunk. That's what you are. First of all, I'm not a drunk. I don't even drink anymore. Anymore, sweetie.

So I— so you said that you— you're saying that your mother called CPS on you, and you're saying that you requested grandparents' rights?

No, I didn't call CPS on her.

Okay, so you requested grandparents' rights? Yes, through the court.

I requested visitation, full custody with the paperwork.

But when grandparents' rights— when grandparents' rights are requested, it's usually saying that the parent is delinquent in a way. It's not actually about just me getting visitation. It doesn't work the same way as it works like in a custody battle between two people. So were you aware of that?

No, I wasn't aware of that. And when I Became aware of that, I dropped it.

Got it, okay then, got it. So you found out—

No, you couldn't prove abuse in the act, so the charges were dropped. I dropped it, I said you are a phenomenal mother. Y'all always stand up for me, and this is what I mean with you. Me and India are sitting here having a conversation, and instead of you being a mother and saying y'all need to work this out and get it together, you're immediately jumping to her side. No, I'm not jumping on nobody's side. I'm not jumping on nobody's side. I'm on both of y'all's sides. No, you're not. I'm on both of y'all's sides. You just jumped to defense mode just now. Well, I apologize, I apologize.

It sounds like Topaz feels like she gets ganged up on by you. I do.

And that's not the case. That's not the case. She's a toxic mother and she likes to turn all of us against each other. So you say. No, I don't turn y'all against each other. You like to turn all of us against each other. No, I don't. That's exactly what you do.

Okay. I'm tired of it. Donna, how was your relationship with Topaz as a child? It was beautiful, it was marvelous. It was? It was great.

From your perspective as well? A lot of drugs drugs and alcohol in the household a lot. Okay. It was a very toxic household. Yes, it was. Domestic violence and everything. Don't see her lie.

Do you feel like your mother instigates stuff?

I wouldn't say she instigated, but sometimes when they at each other at the same time, and then if me and her have a problem at the same time, it's kind of like, oh, well, we both not messing with her at the same time, so. I mean, we're just not speaking.

Which validates your feeling of feeling ganged up on. Yes. Got it, heard it. Okay, so from your point of view, Donna, what's going on with your daughter? Why do you think y'all have a problem?

I haven't seen my grandkids in almost a year. Why is that? Why is that? Because if I don't go by what you want me to do. What did you do? Topaz, don't sit here and do that. What did you do? You tell me what I did. I always do stuff. You showed pictures. I'm always convicted. You did something with my best friend. You started up some drama with my best friend. Friend showing her and comparing pictures of the kids to different people. It's not the father, just being messy.

So she told other people that your child's father was not your child's father? Yes.

Whatever, talk about it. Is that true? That's not true. There's always two sides to a story.

I wanna hear it. That's not true.

'Cause she's messy. No, actually I'm not messy, sweetie. You the messy one.

At this point we are messy. But do they always go back like this?

Is it always? This is constant? We gonna get nowhere. She like to talk about stuff that happened 20 and 30 years ago. I don't do drugs. Then you just stand up. Topaz, you dead wrong. You dead wrong. I don't have to keep on repeating. You gotta stop jumping. You gotta stop doing that and just be mutual. You have 4 children, not 3. You have 3. Okay, and I will be very mutual with my children. If they're wrong, they're wrong.

So you feel like she's never given you this equal amount of love and support? No. Okay, she said early on that when she was younger, I heard it and I wrote it down quickly. She said that when she was younger and before you got with her father or something of that nature, I missed a little bit of that story, that she was raised with her grandmother, that you left her alone in New York. You said you got left in New York. So she's already felt, how old were you at that age?

Maybe about 10. So you were 10 years old. About 11 or 12.

Okay, either way, it's young. And she felt like she then at that point was left behind.

I had to learn how to do my own hair by myself. I had to learn things that you was supposed to be there to teach me. I apologize. You don't, you take accountability for my actions. I apologize. I apologize once again. You are a beautiful, phenomenal woman, a daughter. Just keep that attitude.

The problem is, is that The problem is that you're telling her to let go of the feelings that she's had, but that's easier said than done for you because you've grown past it. But she's still, and I think this is something that I talk about constantly on the show, is that when it comes to our kids, kids are still in that age. Even though she's grown, she just told you that, I heard a little kid talking. I needed my mother to teach me how to brush my hair, to do these things, and she didn't have it. So when you say get over it, it's in the past, I'm sorry, Sorry, I understand why she feels like it's insincere. My granny used to always tell me, you got two ears and one mouth, you're supposed to be doing one double time. And I think in this moment you're supposed to be listening to her a lot more than you saying sorrys. Okay, you're right. Do you feel like your mother ever truly just listens to you? No. You don't? Tell your mother.

You don't listen to me. You don't listen to me. I do listen to you. No, you don't. I remember when there was a time when we were like, I know I'm your mother, but we were like best friends as well.

Well. Do you remember that time?

Not really, no. Yeah. She's looking at it from her perspective. I never. You never considered her your best friend? I didn't sit down and, Mom, when's the last time you gave me a hug? It's been a long time ago. I said, I love you. Karamo. You don't do that. I can relate to her on that because we didn't really grow up with the I love yous and the hugs and the kisses and that. Household.

Got it. Both of your daughters have told you right now that they didn't grow up feeling like they got love from mom. Your daughter just also confirmed it right now. She just said like, we didn't grow up in that household. Well, I apologize.

At that time, I didn't love myself. So if you can't love yourself, you can't love nobody else.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I understand that. Did y'all know that about her at that point?

Okay, but why didn't you leave? If you felt that way, why didn't you leave? To leave and try and give us a better childhood.

Can I stop you somewhere? Yes. Because I asked your mother to listen to you and when she just said something, you acknowledged it. She told you that she didn't even love herself back then. Did you know that? And I'm not trying to say as a child that that was your job. Right. But what we're trying to do is that right now, same way I said to her, two ears, one mouth. Your mother just expressed something to you and I think part of the breakdown here is that now that y'all acknowledging the vulnerability, y'all are saying, I see it. Y'all like, okay, I got it. Okay, I got it, I hear you. But y'all are just not listening to each other. Y'all not, there's no empathetic listening in this relationship. Different than listening, empathetic listening. Like I'm really listening. Your mother said she didn't love herself. And again, I understand you had your own trauma. Yes. But you took a moment and was like, I didn't know that.

I didn't know that. I did not know you was feeling that way.

And I know you have your own pain, but I just want you to take a moment and think. I can only imagine what that feeling is like.

Probably horrible, especially having to still be a mom to 4 kids and get up and care for us and stuff like that. I'm sorry you felt that way. Thank you. I'm sorry.

What your daughter just did is she modeled, she modeled exactly what I do. That's exactly what y'all gotta start doing for each other. I can understand the frustration and you trying to protect your children. And I think all of y'all can remind each other that like, yo, when I'm feeling like I'm not being heard, say to each other, okay, I'm gonna stop and I'm gonna use these two more than I do this. I think that's a lesson for all of y'all. I think this is all y'all gotta do is this to each other. Listen more. Listen, you can't choose your family, but you can choose how you react and how you listen to them. Absolutely. And so I just wish y'all the best of luck with that. Before I go, your daughters both said they don't feel the love and affection. Instead of saying something, just show them right now.

I'll give them a hug.

Do you want it though? Ask them. Do you want it? Can I hug you? Do you want it? I love you.

I love you.

I love you too. There's some more work to do. There's work that needs to be done here, but hopefully I've given you a little bit of a step for you to be heard. Do you feel a little heard?

I feel a little bit better.

You do, you do, good. Do you feel a little bit heard and seen? Yes. Do you feel heard and seen? I do. Good, as long as y'all can use this as the first step to keep moving on. Listen, I'm gonna give y'all my number if y'all need some help too. Give me a call, all right? Y'all call me and be like, "Hey, she ain't listening." Okay, I'm gonna be like, "Okay, put her on the phone." I'm gonna get y'all, all right?

Thank you. Good luck, all right? Thank you. All right.