In this episode of Karamo, host Karamo (referred to as “Speaker B”) mediates a counseling‑style conversation between Kenny and Nicole, a married couple who have known each other since middle school and have been married five years. Kenny explains that his upbringing in an Asian culture emphasized respect and that he feels constantly pressured by Nicole to marry quickly, despite his personal rule of waiting three years before committing. After a surprise public proposal, Kenny felt forced to accept, leading to ongoing resentment. He later suggested a threesome as a “curveball” to avoid marriage, which Nicole agreed to, but the arrangement sparked jealousy, boundary violations, and repeated arguments. Both partners describe frequent yelling, emotional overwhelm, and a pattern of disrespect and lack of clear boundaries. Nicole records a heated exchange for her safety, revealing Kenny’s desperate pleas for Nicole to stop talking. The couple admits past counseling was ineffective and that trauma from their childhood (feeling like scapegoats) resurfaces in their interactions. Ultimately, both acknowledge that the marriage cannot be salvaged; they decide to separate, apologize, and aim to rebuild a friendship, recognizing the need for self‑care and healing. Key moments include: - Kenny’s cultural background and personal marriage timeline rule. - The surprise public proposal and perceived pressure. - The threesome agreement and subsequent jealousy. - Repeated verbal confrontations and recorded audio excerpt. - Nicole’s admission of anxiety and recording for safety. - Discussion of past counseling and childhood trauma. - Mutual decision to separate and transition to friendship, with apologies exchanged. - Host’s guidance toward healing and future friendship.
Chapters
Okay, welcome to Karamo, friends.
My first guest is Kenny and Nicole, who have been married for 5 years, but have known each other since middle school. Over the last couple of years, they found themselves constantly at odds, fighting over everything from respect, boundaries, and even sex. Now they're here to try and solve some of these lingering issues in their marriage. First, I wanna start with Kenny, so let's welcome him to the show, everyone. Hi Kenny, how are you doing?
I'm doing as best as I can.
Yeah. So how would you like my help?
I need your help 'cause, I mean, it starts off with boundaries. Yeah. It's a huge thing for me. I grew up on respect 'cause my Asian culture, we're heavy on respect, respecting elders, respecting people.
I know that in the past 24 hours you all have been arguing a lot. What have you been arguing about?
Just respect. Whenever she tries to talk to me about things like pointing stuff out that I've done, I always ask for like, you know, can you please talk to me in like a civil manner like you and I are doing? But she tries to bring up the other day that she woke up, that she wasn't having any emotion when she was trying to talk to me. But from my perspective, it felt like that she was already like really irate and I don't take emotion as well.
Yeah, I wanna know about your marriage and your proposal. Tell me about that.
Sure, so we first got together, I told her that, you know, Specifically, I only wanted to date for 3 years before I wanted to think about engagements or even marriage 'cause I had gotten out of really bad relationships before and all of them ended up because of the 3-year kind of thing. So I wanted to set a limit so that way I can really take my time to get to know the person I'm dating before I make that big leap. And about less than a year later, she, we, her and I went out to this karaoke bar that I frequent before we started dating where I hang out with my friends. And she brings me up to sing a song. And right afterwards, like, I look around and I look right next to her and she just gets down on one knee and just right in front of everyone.
What?
Asked me, yeah. And she said that she did it because she felt she was ready. But I was in the middle of, you know, all my friends, so I couldn't really say no even though I wanted to at the time. So I had to say yes. And then from there it—
So you felt pressured to say yes in the marriage? Okay, so once you said yes, You then felt like, well, now that I've said yes, I have to set boundaries.
Yeah, so I told her that, okay, we can be engaged, but I still, you know, I'm still stuck on my idea of I don't want to get married until we hit the 3-year mark. But still that wasn't respected because she would keep asking me like, hey, when are we getting married? Hey, do you want to get married? And at some point I got fed up with hearing her asking me when are we getting married? So I threw her like, I guess like a curveball. I said like, okay, if you want to get married, then let's have a threesome or something.
Okay.
So she agreed to that and then we got married. But then the problem was that every single time where it's been to the point where we find somebody or we start talking to them, she's okay with it and then it turns into where she's uncomfortable or she's jealous about it.
Got it. Does she get loud with you and yell at you?
Yeah.
Okay.
And then the thing is, is when I—
Tell me about that. 'Cause you said you're sensitive to emotions. Does she start screaming? Tell me about your interaction.
Like to her it's not like screaming. To me it's kind of like I'm being yelled at by my mom or something. Like I did something wrong that I shouldn't have.
Got it.
Versus trying to talk me through and trying to understand why is it that I felt that way or why did I do something that came up like as a bad decision?
Okay.
Like for instance, she always, you know, she make these promises for the last few years.
Like she promised that she was gonna be more intimate So what other sexual things do you want her to do? You said the threesomes. What else did you want her to do that she's not doing?
I like dressing up or role-playing or—
Dressing up like furry convention type stuff?
No, not exactly that. No, no, that's a little extreme for me. More like—
Oh, okay, okay.
This is a cute— Not that either.
Okay.
But like characters from medieval or fantasy kind of thing.
Okay, fantasy type stuff. So you wanna add in different type of Costumes, different role-playing, you want that into your relationship.
Right. And she says all that and I'm okay if they're not met, but every time I bring it up, then it's just like, "Oh, you want sex?" Or I'm just cut off.
Got it. Where was that photo taken?
That was in Pittsburgh.
Was that at a convention?
That was at a furry convention. Yeah, that was a furry convention.
That was a furry convention, okay.
We go for fun, not that kind of fun.
Okay, got it, got it, got it. Understandable. Well listen, I hear your complaints. I hear what you're saying to me. I do wanna hear her side of the story because that will help me to fully understand where the boundaries are lacking, where the respect is lacking. Let's welcome Kenny's wife Nicole to the show right now.
How are you, Nicole? Better.
Yeah. What's going on? I can see already from your emotions that something's happening.
I'm extremely embarrassed. I feel exposed, I feel vulnerable, and I feel that I need to also speak up makeup.
Yes.
Okay. So what do you think is going on in your marriage from your perspective?
Well, he's not wrong about, I do need to work on the whole like boundaries thing and I understand that I did put some pressure and I'm sorry that I did that. I just went about it the wrong way.
She said she's sorry for making you feel pressured even though you made the choice to say yes. She's still acknowledging she made you feel pressured. Can you just accept that apology and then let that part of it go? Sure, you can tell her.
Yeah, I'd also like to address that whole agreement with our marriage, okay?
For the threesome?
I'm so embarrassed. He told me if I don't wanna do it anymore, it would just make me miserable because he told me that I'll make your life miserable, you know, 'cause you didn't give me what I wanted. I did give him what he wanted. It's just he got very power hungry and greedy and overstepped my boundaries.
My producers are telling me right now that you brought us a conversation that you wanna show me how he talks to you.
Yeah.
It's pretty—
Okay, Karamo, you wanna hear this audio?
I wanna fucking cancel all my plans today. I can't even. No. Stop talking, you're still doing it. You're still fucking talking. Please stop. If you care about me, if you love me, if you care about this marriage, please do something about your talking right now. Here's a pillow. Please put it up against your lips. Please put it against your lips so you don't talk. Not your mouth, just your lips, so you don't have words come out, please. Because I'm asking you to stop talking. You're not doing— well, then here, here, this is what you can help. Talking to your mouth, hands, so that I don't have to hear it, please. Like, I don't deserve it, dude. I don't deserve it. As I'm going to start talking, this is what happens. This— well, I can't help it either.
So why did you record this conversation?
For my safety. I was I have a problem with not stopping when I'm really anxious.
Okay, so Kenny, I want to hear your perspective.
So I mean, obviously things before and after, people don't understand the details, but prior to that, I had asked her to please stop because I was at a point where I was overwhelmed, and she wouldn't respect that, and it kept pushing me to the button where I snapped, and that was basically what happened.
How do you feel about what he says? Is it true that he ask you to stop and then—
I do have a problem with that. I will have no issues openly admitting that I have a problem with stopping.
Yeah.
So he'll ask for the boundary of saying, "Hey, can we have this conversation later?" But in the moment you still want to continue the conversation.
I do 'cause I feel like I've been taken outta context, that I can't fix it right away. It's just I would like to have that context like kind of rectified.
And how long has this been going on where there's been this sort of lack of respect and lack of boundaries?
It's been like that, I think, after we got married for the most part. After you married? I mean, it wasn't as bad in the beginning if I could remember correctly, but.
Kenny, how do you feel to hear that?
I'm not sure to be honest, 'cause like I hate myself when I do that.
I never condone verbal abuse, I never condone violence. But I think there's a lot of context here where I think both of you have boundary issues. I think both of you have respect issues, and I think both of you have trauma that you're both dealing with from the past that literally pops up in your own conversation. Would you both agree to that?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Never, ever, ever should you ever make them feel like their life is in danger.
I understand that, but my mental health is like that when I snap. Like I said, I can't control certain things and I end up doing bad decisions and I don't want that. When I try to remove myself even from the room, she won't let me.
Nicole, are you still in love with your husband?
I love him, but I'm not in love with him.
There we go. Are you in love with your wife?
I was.
You were, you were. Yeah. Okay.
Like I'm still wanting to get that back, but I'm having a hard time 'cause I mean, I care about her a lot 'cause she was the one that took care of me when I was a kid. Like in middle school, She was the one that reached out and talked to me. And from day one, that's when I fell in love with her, 'cause no one gave me a chance. And that's still kind of the same. I have to always fight my hardest to try to get the recognition that I'm trying to get, or people to understand or hear me out. So it's been a constant struggle.
I'm glad that you brought up middle school, 'cause That was an important key for me to hear in your story. And people have heard me say this before, and I think it's a lesson we need to learn more and more. You two both were hearing your story now, like you, no one saw you, you felt rejected, you felt this sort of like—
I was like the scapegoat.
The scapegoat. And so you're not establishing a relationship on something healthy. There's no healthy foundation. And so what happens is that even if you're unconsciously not wanting to do it, it just comes out where you start to try trigger each other, where you start to do things where she's now the scapegoat, where you don't feel seen and heard. It's just repeating the same things you said that you felt as kids. And even though you've been to counseling, it's not getting better. 'Cause you said that you went to counseling before this, right?
Yeah.
What happened at the counseling?
It just didn't remain very consistent. It didn't really like, it just felt very copy paste repeat, you know?
Yeah, it makes sense. Completely makes sense. This is years that you're unraveling. I think with the boundaries and the communication, I don't feel personally that they're gonna get better. I think that as friends, you could start to heal this, but I don't think as lovers that this can be healed.
I agree.
You do agree?
I'm ready.
I've come to terms with that a while ago. It's just I didn't wanna let it go because the fact that I care and love her.
I think what needs to happen right now is do you wanna salvage a friendship at least?
I would be fine with a friendship. I wanna take care of myself because I can't take care of other people if I can't take care of myself.
I love that. Give that a round of applause. Do you wanna establish a friendship?
Even before we dated, I said, "I promise to always be your friend," and I still wanna be friends.
Yeah. So can you look at her and say, "I'm sorry for all the things we went through. I'm sorry for everything." This is your wife. And say, "But I think it's time that we take the next steps to just start to heal ourselves and become friends." It's so hard. I know.
I'm sorry for everything I put you through in the last 5, 6 years. And I'm sorry for the way that I acted. I'm sorry for everything. I'm sorry for the things that you've gone through. I'm sorry for things I put you through because of that or anything.
And I'm sorry I put you in those positions. I acknowledge that and I apologize. I sincerely do.
I know, but he's right. It's, 'cause it's something that I've thought about already before, that we do need to separate. 'Cause I can't heal at all when I'm constantly having to put up with and deal with just like you with me.
And you deserve that as a human being, you know? We're human, we make mistakes. I mean, even if they're like really bad, Really, really bad.
So can you both agree right now and say, 'cause I heard the apology and say, let's separate, start to heal ourselves, and then start to rebuild our friendship?
Absolutely.
You ready?
I'm ready to.
I'm ready to separate and heal, but I do wish that we can still remain friends eventually.
Of course.
'Cause I've never let that go. That is the one memory I always had. Of us is the fact that we stood up for each other all those years ago.
Yeah.
And the fact the happy times that we had together, like the picture that they showed up of us at Anthrocon. That was one of the best times we've had. We had no issues then, we weren't arguing, we were—
It was fresh.
It was great.
It was great.
You can get this friendship back. And I think now that you've been honest with each other about how you feel, this is a perfect first step. And now you can heal yourselves knowing that you don't have the pressure of feeling like we have to be together, and then maybe the friendship can heal within the next year or so. Can you give each other a hug?
Of course.
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