Craziest Age Gap Relationships | KARAMO

And this little boy 38?

Yeah.

And you 60?

Yes.

Okay, I understand. When you say you gave your everything, what do you mean by that?

I met him, he had nothing.

Mm-hmm, I heard you moved him out, you bought him a ticket back. Uh-huh.

Yeah, and After he got married, we continued to see each other. I never, never, never left.

Why?

'Cause I love him. I'm in love with him.

Okay.

I'm in love with him.

Okay. Still?

I'm in love with him.

Right now?

Right now.

Okay. Okay. So what'd you do?

I sold my home and moved to Augusta, Georgia while he was still married to this girl off of the account that he would get a divorce when I got there.

And when you moved there, what did he do?

He continued to go back and forth between me and her.

So he didn't get the divorce?

He never got a divorce until the very end of it.

And how long ago was that?

He's been divorced now, I wanna say about 5 or 6 months.

Did you ever hear from his wife?

Me and his wife are best friends today.

Girl, you playing now.

No, I'm not.

You just said you was in a situationship, a throuple before. I'm still confused of why you friends with either of them. I am, I'm confused why you friends with either of them. He got married. He got married while you was in a relationship. You do know that, right? No? Okay, girl. So when was the last time you and JJ were intimate?

August the 24th, 2024.

So a couple months ago.

Mm-hmm.

And when was the last time you saw him?

August 24th, 2024.

So are y'all in a relationship right now?

I don't know what the hell you, I mean, I don't know what to call it.

Now you can be real, 'cause I don't know what the hell to call it either. You can be real.

I don't know what the hell to call this Okay.

Karamo.

So, 'cause there is so much to unpack here. My producers who can be shady sometimes said they made a timeline. Let me see this timeline y'all done made. Okay, so this is what happened. JJ moves in after meeting online. October, he visits his family in Georgia. Then November 2021 is when he marries another woman. Then 2022 is when you sell the house to be with him. August 24th, you two are intimate. And then 3 weeks ago, you visit JJ and buy him groceries.

Yeah. When I left Augusta, Georgia, I just couldn't take it no more. I was like, I'm the hell outta here. This is it. So I left Augusta, Georgia August the 28th and I came back to Wilmington, Delaware where I reside now. He then left Wrens, Georgia and moved to Hampton, Virginia with his cousin. We continued to talk. He asked me to come see him. I agreed to go down and see him 'cause I'm still there, I'm still in, I'm not out. So I go down there and I buy him groceries, I buy him clothes, I get his haircut, I get him groomed.

Okay, so you asked our Unlock the Phone investigator to unlock JJ's phone 'cause you want to know if JJ was talking to other women. How JJ really feels about you and if JJ will take this relationship seriously, correct?

Correct.

I think it's time to welcome JJ to the show to hear his side of the story. So everyone, please welcome JJ.

How y'all doing? So, yeah.

Hey, JJ.

What's up?

What's going on?

I don't know. Why I'm on this show anyway?

'Cause y'all called.

I ain't called.

Well, she called and you accepted the invite. So what's going on?

I don't know what's going on.

Do you agree with the way Redda describes your relationship? That you were in a healthy, you were not healthy, excuse me.

Misspoke.

That you were in a relationship for 3 years, then you lied and got married to another woman, and then you left that woman to be back with her?

I mean, I ain't lie about anything.

Okay. So you were telling her that you're not together?

I mean, yeah, I done told her that.

Okay. Did you ever have feelings for her? Yeah, in the beginning. Okay. And what happened?

I mean, we separated.

I moved on.

Okay.

That's not true.

What? That's not true.

Well, give me your version then.

What happened was—

Well, not your version, I know your version. I need JJ version.

I mean, she was tearing all my stuff up, kicking me out, just doing all kind of crazy stuff, so I moved on.

Were you doing that?

Yeah, 'cause he was in my house cheating on me.

Okay.

And I had evidence to prove it.

Got it. So did you see this timeline that we have of y'all relationship? You agree with this timeline? 'Cause it sound like you're saying that that's not accurate. So did you move in after meeting online 2019? Hold on, so who? 2019, at the top.

2019.

Did you move in?

Yeah, 2019, y'all moved in.

Okay, and then October 2021, you visit your family in Georgia?

No.

Yes, you did. I moved home.

You moved home.

You went to visit.

I ain't went to visit. How you gonna tell me?

You still had clothes at my house.

Hold on, we got moving graphics up? Yeah. Okay, hold on.

They don't tell me what's happening here 'cause I'm like, what?

We broke up.

So you broke up in October 2021?

Yes.

So you telling me when you left my home on October the 15th of 2021, that me and you was not in a committed relationship. Yes, we were, and you know why we were? Because I called and asked you, was you getting married, and you told me no.

I ain't talk to you.

You did, stop lying. That's why we're here today.

That ain't why I'm here, that's why you here.

It's okay. But stop leading me on and stop playing with me, my money, my heart. I ain't leading you on nothing. Yes, you are.

Well, November 2021, you married another woman?

Yes.

Okay. And then May 2022, she sold her house to be near you? Yes. Okay. And then August 2024, were y'all intimate?

No, sir. I don't know nothing about that.

We wasn't together.

Whoever's in the booth, y'all quick with the red lines and everything. I appreciate it.

Okay.

So what happened in 2024?

What happened?

Yeah, what happened? August 2024 then, so y'all went intimate. Did y'all see each other during that time?

No, sir.

Okay, and so then 3 weeks ago, did she buy you groceries?

Yeah, she came down to visit.

Okay, okay. Did you ask her for money?

I mean—

Every day. Every day. And you better not lie. Every day.

I don't know nothing about that right now.

Every day I give you. Every day you call me, I'm there for you. Anytime you need anything, I'm there for you. Don't you dare act like I ain't your backbone. Don't you dare.

This is the thing right here. I can already track behavior. I know you do use women, so I already know that. Listen, we unlocked your phone, JJ. So, well actually, hold on, actually my producer tell me we actually did not unlock 'cause you have a confession.

Red, I'm not unlocking my phone, period. We are just friends. Our relationship ended 2021.

We will never be in a relationship ever again. I appreciate everything you done for me, but I'm moving on.

You already did. You already did.

JJ, what has been happening the last 3 years?

I mean, we weren't together in the last 3 years.

Okay. You got your answers?

Yes, I did.

Okay, so I'm gonna ask you this, 'cause this whole thing right now, talking about you in love with this little boy right here is silly. I'm gonna ask you really quickly. So at what point did your self-esteem get broken that you felt like this is what you deserve? Because that's the real question we gotta talk about here. Because all these antics, all I heard was either a young woman that was hurt, never healed, and also you think you're his mama. That's what I heard both times. Don't do this, I'm not on your side. I'm just saying, I'm just like— Don't, I ain't on your side. I ain't on your side. You use women and you do some deceitful stuff and you gotta grow through that. You understand?

Who said I don't use 'em?

You—

That's a good point.

So I'm gonna ask you again. At what point did your self-esteem break that you stopped understanding what you deserve?

I don't know.

Okay, so that's the first place we gotta start.

I don't know.

Because for any grown woman who, I see the passion, I understand the hurt. But the choice to sell your house was not a JJ choice, that was a you choice. And that is a choice, that is a choice of somebody who doesn't understand their own worth, their own security, what they have to do for themselves. If you could easily give up your own security for a man because you love him, that tells me something about your emotional and mental state. And that's what needs to be fixed. And until you face up and say you gotta do that work, this gonna keep happening. And I really need you to buy a journal and journal from the age 5 and up. What were the moments that you felt that life told you you didn't deserve better? Can you promise me you'll leave here and go do the work?

I promise you.

Please.

I promise you.

Well, I wish you the best of luck, seriously. And you need to get it together, and you know you do. I wish you the best of luck.

Thank you.

Well, you're delusional!

But you still sitting here talking about I'm having sex with some bitch or woman on the phone. So I'm on the phone.

You're a liar! I'm on the phone. Why you doing that? I'm not going out, the door is open! The door is open in and out! What are you talking about? Yeah, oh, I'm sitting here watching the movie! I'm sitting here watching the movie. Yeah, watch the movie in your.

Get outta here. So when I go to the damn trash can.

The dog gotta pee that much?

When I go to the trash can, I'm sleeping with the trash can.

The dog pee that much?

Okay, hold on, I gotta get some details right here. So hold on. First of all, welcome to the show.

Thank you.

You look beautiful. Take a seat for me. Hold on. I felt like I got a whole bunch right there. I understand a lot. So first of all, so your suspicions are coming from the fact of, not the fact that he's communicating with you, 'cause it sounds like he talks to you while you're at work.

Right.

So then, but when he goes out, so like you just said he walks the dog 4 times, then you start feeling like there's something going on.

Right.

Okay.

Especially when I'm at work.

And you also said the alarm's going off?

The alarm going, when I'm at work, the alarm's going off, beeping 4 times. The door was closed twice.

Okay.

But why the door closing 4 times?

Got it.

Oh, I'm walking the dog. The dog walking twice? 4 or 5 times at night? It's too many times. That's the problem.

So have you tried to catch him cheating before in the past?

I have.

And what happened?

I have caught him in the DM.

Okay.

He was shocked and surprised. He gonna tell me, "Well, that's a girl that me and my best friend knew a long time ago. She don't even live in this area, so you shouldn't even be worried about it." So what you doing in the DM?

A friend of ours got murdered.

Okay.

And she DM'd me. I DM'd her back, but if you check, there's no sexual nothing.

But why she telling in the DM, oh well, she must be around 'cause you can't talk?

Why do I need to talk to her for?

What you mean what you need to talk to her for? You was having a conversation, you didn't wanna talk to her.

The conversation about our friend that got murdered was over with.

And she like, oh well, you can't communicate 'cause she must be in front of you.

'Cause I didn't wanna talk to her.

But why you talking to her in the first place?

Because a friend of ours got murdered.

We communicate more than a friend.

Okay, but where did you—

Hold on, because if she was doing that, from what it sounds like you're saying and he's saying, it matches up that he didn't respond. It sound like this woman was, right?

He responded, but he deleted messages.

Do you delete messages?

Hell no.

Okay, you keep everything in your phone.

Right.

Why are you staying with him if you think he unfaithful like this?

Because I love him so much. We've been together for 4 years.

Yes.

You know?

But 4 years of having to check on the showers and check on the beds and do all this, that's a lot.

I know, and that's why I'm trying to figure out, Karamo, today, what's going on? 'Cause I need to know.

To me, it seems— I'm tired.

I've been here for 4 years going on and off with this man.

To me, it seems like, it seems like you trying to set me up to cheat. My man stays in his pants.

He only come out when I go to the bathroom, when I go to the shower. You don't even satisfy me. Get it together.

Hold on, is that why you arguing after sex? Because he said y'all have 3, 4 times and you're saying now that the sex is not—

I can't tell.

He can't, he don't satisfy me.

I can't tell.

You talking about what's in his pants, but ain't doing it right. He's not doing it right.

He messed it up. So you're saying you're not satisfied?

Right.

Have you ever heard this before?

Nah, this the first time I'm hearing it.

Do you communicate that with him?

It shouldn't matter 'cause I want his self-esteem to be up 'cause he's so older. All right. Ooh.

So you're doing it for his self-esteem?

Yes. Ooh.

I'm just upset and I'm tired. I'm too good of a woman to be out here sitting here letting this man think he gonna do anything around my back.

And I'm too good of a man to do the same, feel the same way. I pay the rent, I pay the car note.

Hold on, when you ain't had no job, I held it down, I'm still holding it down. I furnished the whole place that you're messing up.

Okay, let me ask you this. Will you stop accusing him if we don't find anything in his phone?

Of course, that'd be a relief on me.

Then I can walk down the aisle.

And vice versa, will you stop accusing her?

If I find nothing in her phone, I promise to marry this woman for the rest of her life.

Okay, he said for the rest of her life. Okay, well let's go ahead and unlock your phone. I think it's time to unlock your phone first, Chyna. William, you first want to know if there are any photos showing evidence of her with other men on her phone. Chyna says she is not and there is not. My unlock the phone investigator found That she is telling the truth. William, you specifically want to know if China has been going to any suspicious locations other than work. China says she's not. My Unlock the Phone investigator searched her GPS and China is telling the truth. I told you. William wants to know if China has any dating apps on her phone. China says she does not. My Unlock the Phone investigator found that she is not telling the truth. We found the dating app Badoo downloaded on your phone since November 7th, and you've recently been active on it.

Oh, oh, so it's the pot calling the kettle black then.

Yeah, you know why? Because at the end of the day, I know you're doing something.

Well, William, you want to know if Chyna has been messaging any other men in her DMs. She says she is not. And my unlock the phone investigator found She is not telling the truth. We found 30 different DM chats with multiple men on the dating apps as recently as last week.

Where?

On this dating app. You would be in communication with them.

Yeah, at the end of the day, this is when we was arguing. Yes, but when you, so if you can do it when we argue, but when I do it when we argue.

But you say you don't do it, so which one is it?

Well, I think William, I guess it's time to unlock your phone so we can get the truth of this. Let's go.

Yes.

All right, China, you want to know if there were any photos of other women in William's phone. He says there is not. My Unlock the Phone investigators searched William's photos and he's telling the truth. We found no suspicious photos. China, you wanna know if William's communicating with other women on social media. I told you. William says he's not. My Unlock the Phone investigators searched his DMs and found that William is telling the truth.

Whoa!

We found no suspicious DMs at all. Chyna, you wanted to know if he had been in contact with his ex-coworker or the neighbor. He says he is not. My Unlock the Phone investigators searched his phone and found that William is not telling the truth.

Woo! I knew it!

I knew it! He is not in contact No way. He is not in contact with the neighbor, but we did find 399 deleted texts and calls with his ex-coworker. The reason I'm bringing this, and this has all been since June. The reason I bring this up is because William, this is interesting right now. I asked you specifically if you delete anything and your exact words to me is, "I do not delete anything." Why did you ask me to talk about that?

I knew it.

Why have you been deleting?

What messages have you been deleting with your ex-coworker?

I don't even talk to my ex-coworker.

399 messages were deleted from June.

Man, you gotta show me these.

I knew it.

Well, the unfortunate part is, is that they were swiped, so we can't show you what the message says. We can't show you what the message says. We can only see that 399 messages were swiped and deleted from the phone.

I ain't delete no messages.

Why delete messages, huh?

'Cause you also did, part of your defense was that she has your passcode and she can see whatever, but if you delete something, it don't matter if someone has your passcode.

Okay, so, So, so, so.

You're not innocent either, girl. You was on a date nap last week.

I've been taking it too much. And I've been telling him it's been over. I've been telling him it's been over. I'm tired and I'm sick and I've been tired. I've been holding this man down for 4 years.

And I've been holding you down for 4 years.

Okay, let's be real with this. After listening to all this, the fact of the matter is, is y'all are two bulls in a china shop, and that's the real it is, okay? And so we saw how the photos were from beginning to end, where it starts off where it's nice and clean and things are healthy, and then it goes chaotic. Y'all unfortunately have gotten to a pattern where neither of you're happy. You just said you're not satisfied. I know you're not satisfied and happy with, not saying that you're not satisfied with her, but you're not satisfied with this style of life. You're tired of being accused. You're unhappy. You feel like he's not hearing you. I don't understand other, what is holding you two together because This is a relationship where you're in a cycle of just in, it's a toxic cycle that you both have been in. And at the end of the day, what's hard for me is that you both are attractive, beautiful people. You both have great personalities. You both probably are the joy to be around, but you're not a joy to be around with each other anymore. You were in a relationship that was pretty bad for years. How long were you together with your ex?

26 years.

26 years. And did it turn into a place where it was, Not healthy in what ways for you?

Yes, for me, I was just very, very unhappy. I'm really bad at not speaking up for myself. And I just got into a place where I was in deep depression and just sad. And I knew I had to do something about it.

Sometimes it's easy just to judge the age and judge these things on the outside, but you're coming from a space where you were in a bad relationship where there was not the communication, where you didn't feel sexy, where you didn't get supported. And so for you, you now found somewhere you could have a little fun with.

Exactly.

Yeah, I get it. I get it. So what happened the first time you all posted your first TikTok?

Well, I was a high school teacher and we, Alex had never had or done TikTok or anything like that, but I had before.

So I love that you're convincing the 24-year-old they're on TikTok.

So we posted this, It was, you know, there was some sexual innuendo on there. Didn't think a thing about it. We were in the gym and I remember my students were texting me and they were like, "Your TikTok is blowing up." And I was like, "My TikTok." They've seen me. And so I ran over and I was like, "Check the TikTok, check the TikTok." And he looked on it and it was like 300-something thousand views already. And it was climbing. It was going like this fast. And 200-something comments from my school students. And I was like, take it down, take it down, take it down.

Because the first TikTok did cause issues with you at work. Because my producers told me is that you had to prove that he wasn't one of your students.

That he was not a high school student.

Wow.

But this could have been really detrimental to your career. And I bring that up because people forget like the ramifications of if they would've thought that this is, you know, your student. You could have immediately been fired and that could ruin your reputation to go to even another school.

Exactly, yeah.

So I also heard that people can confuse you for his mother?

That definitely has happened. Um, they've been like, oh, mother and son, I can tell. And we were like, yeah, or things like that. It has happened.

So why are you here today?

All couples have their issues that they go through. Ours are a little different than most sometimes because of our age gap. We want to, you know, debunk this double standard that there is, you know.

So what do you— what do your families say about you two being together?

My family have been very accepting.

Do you have children from your past relationship?

I do. I have 2 children that are not much younger. They're not much younger than Alex is.

And so at the beginning—

How old are your kids if you don't mind me asking? No, 19 and 22.

Okay.

So they're close to his age.

They're close.

Yeah.

And what does his family say to you?

Okay, just now.

That is a different story. They won't even say my name. They say that woman that you're with. Or that older, your older woman, or that old lady or something like that that you live with.

And y'all have been together for 2 years now?

Yeah.

So is there trust issues?

That's the second issue that we've had. Yeah, I started questioning, I started figuring out that, and I did accidentally find out because he was on something talking to someone when I walked in the room and I made him stop and show me. And that's when I started to see.

Have you brought him here today for me to unlock his phone?

That's part of it, yes. I see that he's sincere. I know that he knows that it's not okay and he's tried to change and I try to trust him, but every time that I do, something happens and I'm like, here, you know, I can only go so far. Like my heart is on the line and I just, I need to know that this is, he's really changing and he's really becoming the man that, you know, he wants to be and that I want him to be.

Please everyone help me welcome Alex to my show. How you doing, man? Nice to meet you, man.

Nice to meet you too.

How you doing?

How's it going?

Going well, how are you?

Good, I'm good, thank you. So you two have been dating now for 2 years. Yes. Did you know that Rachel was older when you met her?

Yes, I did. But as you can tell, she looks significantly younger than her age.

Beautiful, yes.

But yes, she's obviously very beautiful and we connected. We had good chemistry. And I was at a place in my life where I was just open to experiencing something different and trying it out, seeing what happened.

You're young, so this is your first serious relationship?

Yes, it is. You know, I had like, I guess you can call them relationships when I was in high school, early college, but They were definitely much more on the casual side of things. So this is my first time in a committed relationship for sure.

Got it.

I built a lot of bad habits, like I wanted attention from women to validate myself.

Not from just one.

You told my producers that you were a microcheater. What does that mean?

Yes.

So essentially—

Oh, you've heard this before?

Oh yeah, well, since all of this has happened, I did my research.

So essentially, just disclaimer, in Rachel and I's relationship, there's never been any type of physical cheating. However, there were times where, you know, I overstepped my boundary. I flirted with other girls on dating apps or on Snapchat, you know, especially early on in our relationship. And a lot of it, you know, was an insecurity thing. I wanted that attention and validation. And even though I did love Rachel, I just, I just made mistakes and I feel really guilty about it and it was wrong.

Have you stopped microcheating?

Yes, I have. So I have taken a lot of steps to stop microcheating.

The biggest—

It's been a lot, a lot of steps. So the biggest things I've done lately is I have deleted my Instagram account and I've deleted my Facebook account. But I understand because that's a boundary that she has and she's made it very clear to me that those are her boundaries and I wanna respect them. And that is why, the main reason why I've taken that, which I think is a drastic step, of leaving my Facebook and Instagram.

I think those things wouldn't have been such a big deal for me because I didn't have trust issues. But now, anything that I see, I'm like, ah, the pattern, or oh, here we go again. So I think that's why those things, I'm telling you, when someone is dishonest with you and betrays your heart like that, it does something to you.

To you.

Is there anything that you feel like we're gonna find that could be damaging to this relationship, that could be damaging to you? Mm-hmm. Anything at all?

No, I do not think so.

Okay then. And the micro-cheating you said ended a long time ago, right? Yes. Okay, good. I'm just getting context. Well, Alex, we unlocked your phone. Okay, so you added two different women on Snapchat Last week.

Yes. So Rachel and I, something we're doing right now is we're starting a Snapchat Spotlight page. Those two girls must have been some of the people that friend requested us for our videos and I had accepted them and just added them onto our account.

Sounds innocent enough. As of February 2022, you still had Hinge downloaded on your phone.

She's aware of that.

Were you aware of that?

So Rachel and I had a little bit of a break. During that period, and that's when I had downloaded Hinge, and that's where I— yeah, so I don't think we touched on that. We had a little bit of a break, and that is when I downloaded that app, and then we rekindled shortly thereafter.

Rachel, what do you think of this?

It's surprising to me, but I— he's been like— I see, I look at his phone all the time.

I've showed him this type of woman that reaches out to me.

We're very open. He's— I feel like he's taken a lot of steps, and I I have seen those girls that send him those whatever it is, and he doesn't, he's like, yeah, and he'll delete 'em because random people, because that's kind of the business that we're in. We're trying to do stuff on social media, so they do reach out to him and send him weird things, and that's not his fault. So I feel like he's been pretty open with me as of late especially. I don't know.

Alex, could you do me a big, big favor? Yes. Could you step away so I can talk to your beautiful girlfriend?

Yes.

Thank you. I'm not in your relationship day in and day out, but when I see a strong, beautiful woman like you in front of me, it starts to break my heart immediately. You're accepting bad behaviors as normal and making excuses for his behaviors.

Yeah.

It's the truth. Do you know that? Can you see that?

Oh, I know that they're bad behaviors, yeah. I know they are. I know that they're hurtful.

And listen, I'm not here to tell you to break up or to leave this man or do any of that. I can't do it. You're a grown woman, you're strong, you're beautiful, but you're not out here looking at other men. You're not out here doing DMs. You're not out here making him have to question who you're talking to.

Yeah.

You're not doing any of these things.

No, no. But every, I mean, and nobody's perfect. There's not gonna be any relationship that's perfect.

Don't give him more excuses.

Everybody, you're gonna struggle with anything. It's just you have to choose what it is that you're worth, what's worth it.

No, let me tell you something, sister, and I promise you this, and I'm saying this with all, listen, when you see me lean in like this, girlfriend, it's because I feel like you're one of my girlfriends and I can just talk to you. But God, honestly, we get into these things where we start saying to ourselves, oh, well, you just gotta choose what you're gonna put up with. It's gonna be okay. Well, you gotta take this bad because you gotta take this good.

That is a lie.

You don't have to accept bad because you feel like that's all that is gonna be out there. So can you at least make the commitment to stop making excuses for him? Can you make that commitment?

I can.

Sister, gimme a hug.

Aw.

But hearing her say that like they were evicted and that she actually had to find a job where she could support them, does that make you still feel like she's using him?

Yeah, because, so what does that mean? What does that have to do with anything?

And did he propose to you?

He has asked me to marry him, yes.

Okay. Did you know that?

That's the first time I'ma even find this out, Karamo.

Yeah.

Like, I didn't even know they was about to get married. First, you already fucked a little girl. Now you telling me y'all about to get married, but you can't even take care of your own daughter? Like, I don't get that.

Okay.

From my understanding, I can't really speak too much on it, but when he was trying to be in your life, it's like you didn't even want him to be in your life. I never said that. And you can't use the, but that's what I'm just saying. That's why I just said I can't really say too much on it. But from what I'm getting brought into, that's what I'm saying. That's how I feel about it.

Lee, are you concerned about the 20-year age difference?

Somewhat, but not really.

Not really?

No.

Why not really though? Like why do you not? It's just something I've always been, I've always done. I've always been with somebody older than me.

Do you call your father Dad or Robert?

I call him Robert because after I found out about them two, it's like you not, until you act like a father, I'm not gonna call you Dad. You feel me? Like that's just how I feel honestly.

Do you call him as a pet name Daddy?

Yeah, 'cause what do you call him? 'Cause I know I don't even call him Dad. So what do you call him? Daddy.

Okay.

Babe. Baby.

Okay. Well, I think it's time to bring out Robert, her daddy.

Yeah. Daddy.

And hear what he has to say about all this. So Robert, come on out. Why does she have to find out about the relationship on TikTok? Why didn't you just communicate with her like, I'm in a relationship and I'm happy?

Right, like why am I the first daughter at that? Your first child. And you can't even have the common decency to let me know regardless if we talk or not?

Because Calista's mad disrespectful.

So I gotta say one thing. Lee, I actually do respect the fact that you sent that message.

Exactly. It was just a respect thing.

Yeah, I understand. It was nothing more than that. I understand her point of view and I understand your mother's frustration and anger and where that's coming from and how that's causing more tension in this. But what she was trying to do, what she didn't have to do, was trying to at least acknowledge like, I understand this is awkward for you. I understand our same age. And I think it was actually a very mature thing for her to do to show respect that she didn't have to do. And I appreciate you doing that because it shows your character. So thank you for being here.

Of course.

I wanna talk to them.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah.

Yeah, get out, get out. And I don't know why you gonna kiss him away.

I'm just gonna hug him.

I don't wanna see her again. Like real shit, Karamo.

Well, the thing is, unfortunately, that's not a decision you can make or I can make. Your father's the only person who can make that decision if he's in a relationship with her. But at the end of the day, the reason I asked her to leave is because I didn't need her out here in the first place because this is about you two. This is about a daughter who you, out of your own mouth, felt abandoned. Felt disrespected by her father leaving, was in a hard situation with her mother. The mother has feelings of anger. And unfortunately, when we're in relationships, those, especially our oldest, they pick up on like what it is because you in the house being the oldest, I'm almost sure, had to then become the protector of your mom. But that's not your fault. What is the fault is from you because once she started picking up those feelings, Dad should have been right there to say, "No, I'm sorry for what I did. I'm sorry that I wasn't there to tell you that I still love you, to tell you that I am there to support you." I'm gonna ask you right now, what do you need from your dad?

I need you to be there for me. You already missed hella years. You can't take them back. Nobody can go back in the past. But if you gonna be here now in my life, I'm gonna give you an ultimatum. It's either you with me and you leave her or you go with her and you never speak to me again.

[Speaker] So hold on, let me tell you this really quickly 'cause I'm gonna respond for you for this. I'm gonna respond for you in this moment because if you respond, it's gonna seem more like rejection. It is not fair for you to make an ultimatum to your father in that way. And the reason being is because what you just said are not your own feelings. Those are your mother's feelings. But what she can, and she's right for, is that I can understand completely how it would feel, and I want you to put her in your shoes and yourself in her shoes. My father was not there for me between the ages of 13 and 19, critical ages for a young woman.

Critical.

And even outta your mouth, you flippantly made a joke that like, well, you know, she over here mad 'cause I'm teaching this young girl how to drive. Like those jokes, like in your mind might be fun, but for her, she did miss out on dad teaching her how to drive. And she did miss out on everything else. And so she has the right to be fully pissed about the fact that like, you got somebody who's almost my age. It's not about Lee. It's about the fact that she's saying, dad, you didn't give me what I deserved. Can you talk to your daughter about that?

I'm not going to take your ultimatum.

Obviously, you know that I'm a very stubborn, selfish person.

You know me.

Trust me.

Okay, so I'm definitely gonna stay with Lee, okay? Because she makes me happy.

I'm sorry.

Yeah.

I can't do this.

Yeah. I gotta tell you this. I was trying to help you to understand that bringing up Lee or any of these things, I was trying to model and give you the tools. See, what you need to understand is that your daughter sees that you're capable of giving love because you're capable giving it to love to a girl that's over the same age.

Correct.

She needs her father to say, no matter who else I'm loving, I'm always going to love you. No matter if I'm with her, I'm gonna make sure you're a priority. I'm gonna make sure that you see that you're a priority from here on out.

Mm-hmm.

I wish I knew all this before she walked off, Karamo. I know. This is a learning process. It's a learning process. It's a learning process. It's a learning process. I blew it. You didn't blow it. You didn't blow it.

Okay, I'll get her back.

Get her back out here. I'm not gonna get her back out here, 'cause what I want you to do, what you should have done when she was 13, is you go after her. Go for it. I'm sorry for mentioning her name here when this is your chance to heal, but what I will tell you, just like Karamo just told me to tell you, no matter who I'm with or what I'm doing, I'm gonna love you more than I love the check.

Okay?

I'm sorry that I haven't been there, but I'm here now and I'm gonna work every day, every second, every hour. Don't close your heart out to me. Open it up.

I'm here.

I'm your father.

I love you, Calista. Okay?

Okay. I'm sorry.

Okay.

Thank you. I'm sorry.

Can we go back out here? Okay. I mean, obviously Karamo's the best of the best and—

I love you, girl. How you feeling right now?

I just feel overwhelmed with emotions right now.

Yeah.

I'm just still, it's still gonna take me time to get used to the fact that I'm sorry, but your bitch is the same age as me.

Yeah, yeah. So can I encourage you to do this? If you really want a relationship with your father, you can't worry about anybody else. So I get it, but if you really want to see this relationship be built, y'all both have to, this is where you have to meet him. I made sure he went and got you because no longer you chasing after him. But this is where you, this is where you as, A young woman, get to show your maturity. You deserve the love that you did not receive. And yes, your mother gave it to you and you had all the support, but you deserved him to be there. Come on, baby girl. And he's, what I've noticed about you, and I'm gonna give you your flowers, is that I know you came here to learn. You came here to grow and I see it. You're like everything I'm saying, you're processing it, receiving it, and putting it into clear action. And I can tell you, I can tell you something as a young woman, I've been doing this many years with many men, and men are normally the hardest to learn to adapt something you teach them and to grow quickly. It's just the truth. The fact that I saw him do it in real time shows me that he does love you and he wants to be there. Do you wanna say, "Dad, I'll let you in"?

Robert, I will let you in, and Hopefully one day I'll stop calling you by your government and I will accept this relationship, but right now I just need time, but I will let you in. Good.

And will you commit to say, "I will show up for you"? Daughter, I will show up for you day in, day out. Stick with that and it will help y'all have a good relationship, okay? So you think that your boyfriend and your mother are cheating and that they have the, basically the audacity that they go to his mother's house?

Yeah, I think that she wouldn't tell on him if he was doing it.

Has he cheated on you in the past at all?

Yes, I found a condom in his mother's car that he was driving that was used. And I also found a condom in his bedroom in the garbage. And they were both used. And I mean, it hurts, it hurts really bad, you know? Especially if you will lie to me about sleeping with somebody else and not tell me the truth, then you are obviously lying to me about my mother too.

Yeah.

I never took her out on a date, a coffee date. I never got her number, even though she saved the numbers in the phone.

Did you hit on her? Did you hit on her?

You know, last time I hit on her was at the beginning.

So that's a yes.

Yes.

The last time.

Okay.

Last time I hit on her was at the beginning of our friendship. No, that's not true. When she just brought her around. You know, and when she just brought her mom around, she was always telling me how beautiful her mom was and how much everybody always want her mom. So I'm like, all right, you know what I'm saying? So we was still at the beginning of our relationship, of our friendship still, and she brought her around and I was like, um, I'm like, yeah, she cute, whatever. Then next thing you know, she kept trying to—

He's my boyfriend, you're supposed to say she's not cute. Yeah, I don't know what everybody's thinking, she ain't cute.

Yeah, she wasn't though, but the whole point, we were just friends still. Nothing from friends, 'cause we was friends for—

You saw my mouth was kind of open during this, 'cause the way you just talking about this so casually about hitting on your girlfriend's mama is just blowing my mind.

I wasn't hit on. See, it's a difference.

Does she hit on you?

No, I never was. She always say that.

Yes, she does. She always tells him how good he looks. He smells good.

Look at you.

Look at you looking all nice today. I like the outfit on you, or your hair looks nice. She always, always, always, always.

Compliments. All it did have been compliments. And from the beginning, I really think that she still had a guy she was talking to. She was still free.

So you thought she was trying to hook you up with her mom?

Yeah, yeah, I thought she was trying to hook me up with her and she was single, we was single and soon as she started crying after I said that to her mom and I looked at her, I'm like, "Oh baby, I did not know you liked me like that. I did not know that you wanted to take it to the next level. I did not know you felt that way about me." I'm like, "You know what baby, I would never do that to you." I think it's time we meet Rosie's mother, Toni.

So welcome Toni to the show. So just to let you know, the reason it's like this, this is not an error. Your mother has refused to connect remotely.

Mom, why will you not show your face? I mean, you can hear your voice. We already know you're my mom. Everybody knows you're my mom that's gonna see this. I just don't understand it. It doesn't make sense.

But I will say this. I think part of the thing that you're wanting And please tell me if I'm right, I'm just connecting dots here, is you want her to show up. Yeah, I guess. You just talked about it earlier about how your childhood was. These are the reasons I was pointing these things out is because there's become a pattern of I need you to show up.

And you're not there.

I need you to tell me, I need you to reassure me, I need you to know, and you're not getting it. And I'm never there. And so there's a pattern here of here it goes once again. I'm having insecurity, I feel alone, I need my mom to show up and the decision in your mind only reinforces what you've been feeling.

Absolutely.

Talk to me a little bit about that.

Absolutely, you're 100,000% correct.

Yeah, yeah. Because that fire, I hear the statements of you're a firecracker, but I always tell people here, when people say firecracker, when they say this is drama, I hear pain.

Yeah.

Toni was supposed to be here today to tell us her side of the story, but she has declined to be on camera. And now we're gonna unlock the phone to see if there's been any interactions between you and Rosie's mother, Toni. How do you feel about unlocking the phone right now?

Oh, that's like my diary, you know? My journal, my wallet.

Well, is there anything written in it that's going to show us that you have been having a relationship with Toni?

Oh no, nothing like that in there. Completely.

Okay.

Well, listen, it is time to unlock your phone, Karamo. Are you ready for these results?

No.

You're not ready? Well, here we go.

Okay.

All right, so we went through your phone looking for photos, text messages, and calls. And when it came to photos, we found 2 photos. You received a sexually explicit video of a girl in December of 2022 and a topless photo last month. The reason these are important is because I asked you if you were doing anything and you said once it became official, in your words, in November, that you had done nothing since. So these were in December and last month. Thank you so much.

I don't even wanna see 'em.

You don't wanna see 'em?

No.

Okay, I understand that.

I wanna see 'em.

You wanna see 'em? Well, they're from your phone. Please don't show the audience.

Okay.

So one is a topless and the other one is a screen grab of a woman pleasuring herself.

God.

Come on. Come on. Oh, okay.

Wow.

Yeah. All right, Ty.

Okay.

That's fun.

Yep.

Well, those are in December and last month.

Ah.

It was saved in the archives, wasn't it?

No, no, no, no, no.

Ah.

No, no, that's not from archives. No, no, no, no, no. All right, well, let's continue on. It was, oh man. Well, listen, we also went through text messages. When it came to text messages, we found 3,656 text messages. Rosie, you specifically wanted me to check conversations with your mother and two other women. And the investigator found one woman who we'll call L, who there was 2,993 texts from, 71 messages with the word love in it, and you called her funny 41 times. You also told her yesterday that you can't wait to be free.

Huh? Oh.

Then there was 663 texts with another woman, we'll call her J, he tries to get attention from, but she doesn't give it back to him. But you do consistently say, "Hey, what's going on?" "Hey, how we doing? Can we do something?" And these are all within the time period of your asking since November. How do you feel about that?

Disgusted, but I already knew what it was. I already knew.

You know what I'm saying?

Set him free.

To free myself.

"I love you too, baby. I gotta get away from the psycho. I miss you, I love you." These are text messages that he sent directly to the other woman.

This is what they wanted.

That's from the L?

That's from Elle?

That's from Elle.

It's okay.

You know who Elle is.

It's okay, thank you.

All right. Thank you.

So if this is your best friend, why would you say these things? This is supposed to be your love. That's love, baby. But you also earlier said— That's love, baby.

That was love.

15 years.

She's psycho.

Hey, that was love, let me tell you.

She's psycho?

Yeah, yeah, it was so—

I fucked up.

So because I'm confused because now you're saying she's psycho, but 15 years, why are you staying around someone who you think is psycho? Why are you now in a relationship with someone who you think is psycho?

You know, don't let her fool you. She like, she steered me on. She basically, what they was called, ran game on me.

Are we done?

She run games on you.

Dude, she run game on me.

She run game on you, interesting. But when it comes to calls, we found one call which was interesting. It was a video chat with the first woman, Elle, that was just yesterday. So you all arrived here yesterday, correct?

Yeah. She was asking about this show.

I should punch you in your face.

She was asking about this show.

I should punch you in your face.

I will tell you this, we did come here for your mom and we scrubbed through the phone.

Nothing. And—

I'm sorry, Mom.

There was no calls between your mom and Terrence.

Is that all the questions? Can I go?

That is.

I never say, I never say—

I will tell you this, you have some explaining to do because it's one thing for you to, it sounds like y'all were in a friendship where you both understood each other. You both were allowed to do what you need to do, but you were still having casual sex as consenting adults. But then when you decided to say, I'll commit to going further, and it sounds like you made that choice choice, not because you wanted to, just because, I don't know why, but I think that was where you went wrong. You should have said, let's keep it how it is and not go further. Because now what you've done is you've sullied a friendship with someone who you've had in your life for 15 years.

I've been there for her through thick, through thin. And she ain't telling y'all her side of the story. She making me look like this, but I'm not the bad guy.

But you got the show, we not making you look like this.

I know, that's what I'm trying to say. She's trying to make it look, Like I'm the bad guy. No, you was the bad guy, then I was the good guy that fell in love to the bad guy, you know? So it's like—

But even regardless, if you're saying she was the bad guy before, you should have just stayed as friends. Yes, exactly. Because that way you didn't have to go, there would be no bad guy. You're friends both making your own decisions. And that's all I'm saying to you.

Yeah.

I do wanna go talk to her in a little bit. Thank you so much, Tina, for being here. Let me go talk to Rosie a little bit. So I am extremely, extremely, extremely, extremely sorry.

It's okay.

I mean, I feel you. Because no one wants to find that out. He has his own point of view about how y'all were in the friendship and you heard everything I said to him. I think the thing that's bigger for me is that I do wanna figure out how you can start healing because the one consistent piece of this is that you have a lot of anger in you and you have a lot of sadness. In you from the choices that were made and the positions you were put in as a little girl. And outside of this, for me, you two, I probably will end up being friends again. You two will be able to figure out how to keep going forward 'cause I don't feel like you're gonna throw away 15 years. But what you need to start practicing and figuring out is how to heal this relationship with your mom.

Now mind you, I haven't went through this man's phone since the beginning of our relationship, 30 days in. Till this year, right before Thanksgiving. So I went through the phone, seen the messages. I'm like, I ain't even really fully read any of the messages, Karamo. Like I literally didn't. I just seen that they were there and they're not supposed to be there because you know we supposed to be fixing our relationship.

Does it bother you that he didn't fight to stay in the relationship?

Yes, it bothered me because I didn't get an apology. I didn't get like, oh damn, I fucked up. He didn't do any of that and that kind of like triggered something. Then the next morning, woke up, getting ready for work. What is it, Sierra? It just triggered like, you keep on playing with me like I'm a sucker. Like I'm far from ugly and I'm far from a bum. And you're not gonna keep on playing on my intelligence like I'm a weak female. I'm not weak. We're bigger and better than that. There's no reason for you to be treating me like that.

Got it.

If you got a fucking issue, just say that.

Got it, okay.

I'm okay with you having a problem 'cause now you're giving me the choice.

So why do you, amen. That's what I always tell people. Give people a choice. And I'm sorry that this relationship is affecting yourself as well.

Yes.

He never wanted that for you. Why do you still want to be with him?

'Cause he's a great man, but something is blocking you for whatever. I don't know what it is.

It's himself.

And that's what it is.

Selfish.

So you told our Unlock the Phone investigator that you want to know if he was badmouthing you to other people, if he expresses appreciation for the relationship. And those are two things you want to know?

Yes.

Okay. Well, time to hear from Kwaison and see what he has to say to say about all this. So everyone please welcome Poisson to the show.

It's not funny.

It's not funny at all.

It's not, it's not funny.

Hey Poisson, how you doing, man?

I'm all right.

Good, good, good.

You look nice.

How do you feel about what was just said?

Like that whole little before Thanksgiving, she ain't tell you how somebody text her phone and I seen it one morning, you heard?

So?

They text her good morning. Why does man feel comfortable to text you 5 in the morning telling you good morning?

Okay, so he text me good morning. You're waking up every morning.

You responded 'cause I asked you.

Okay, I responded, but again, I'm not the one that's sending the messages. You're waking up every morning saying good morning to bitches. That's the issue, Cre'Sean. People say good morning to people all the time.

All the time. When I ask you, you give her a conversation?

I do, and I said no play. You could've asked though.

Okay, now mind you, this is, Why should I have to ask?

Because we're in a relationship. Just like I feel some type of way, Karamo, you should have said some type of way.

She would ask me if I cheat on her such and such, I would say yes.

Yeah, you would tell me the truth.

I would tell her, I would always, thank you, I would always tell her the truth. I would never just sit there and just lie to her.

Right, you don't.

I always sat there and told her the truth when she asked me.

Right.

'Cause I feel like females ask questions they already know the answer to. They just waiting to see if you gonna lie or not. So if you asking me, I'm taking like you already know.

All right, but you don't. So I'm going to tell you the truth. But still, why is other men in my phone anyway? Didn't we go through a breakup a little while ago? Why? Why? Wasn't I single?

All right, she's not the cheater.

I'm not the cheater?

She had these moments where she wanna go on breaks. I feel like it'd be premeditated things.

Oh, you damn right. You damn right it's premeditated. You damn right. You admitting it. I've been admitting it.

'Cause she had these moments, she premeditated.

So you do premeditate the breakup?

Yeah, I do premeditate it.

So that you can talk to other people?

Lemme tell you, Karamo, he'll do some shit to me, right? And it'll be that one time you do some shit, I'm like, you know what? Today is the day I'm going out and doing some shit. You damn right. You damn right.

All right, and I guess that's her way of not feeling guilty.

So what do you believe is the biggest issue with you and Tiffany?

She's more sneaky than I am. Yeah.

You think I'm sneaky?

Come on, yo.

I'm sneaky.

You got, you, come on, dude.

I'm sneaky?

Yeah.

I'm sneaky, but I'm the one Right? That put both of my feet into the situation. It took me a nice minute for me to just go through it all. I don't have to be with you.

She just left it in the house by mistake while she went to work. I just found it.

Yeah.

And went through it.

You did. I felt like she even planted that too 'cause she wanted me to see it.

No, see, no, I didn't.

Have you always been honest about your cheating with her?

Yes.

If she asked you. So why do you believe Tiffany is cheating on you now? Just because of the men that you've seen that say good morning?

Nah, she got it.

Well, she also just said that when she wants to break up, she goes and does something.

It be times, mind you, we got back together in what, about late August, end of August? Like, she be places, like, I'm like, yo, we never been to these places this whole time we've been together. Now all of a sudden, we, you just like, you just, I got your location, you just going here, you're going there. Like, we never been there, bro. You don't know nobody that's really over there for real.

But you could have some friends.

Ask me though.

That's the whole reason of you having my location. Why would I go out? I'm sharp. I know not to give my location.

What happened New Year's Eve?

Oh, I, um, I was cleaning up, cleaned the whole house up. Sis decided to come in the house. She coming out, she hop in the shower, she get herself nice and dressed and just ask, where you going to your mother's house?

So I'm like, "Yeah, I'll go to my mother's house.

Yeah, that's where I'm going. Sis, help me pack my little bag and just drop me off. I ain't here for in 2 weeks." I'm like, "Why?" Why?

Why did I do that? Everything that I do is a reason why. I'm not just waking up just, "Oh, I want him to be gone." All right, so explain.

All right, so right. Explain how you sit here, you go, like, mind you, you went through my phone. Come to find out when I finally went through her phone, it's like she was texting people around the same time I was texting all these people.

So I'm like, I have. Yeah, like how?

Do you wanna get back with Tiffany?

Yeah.

Why?

I love her to death. I feel like she's one of the realest people in my corners, even though I feel like she do give off these little sneaky vibes from here, like time to time. But you feel me? She still has some type of loyalty in there.

You get what I'm saying? Okay.

Like I can still confide in Tiffany.

So wait, so wait, I'm a little lost here, right? I have these sneaky ways. You put me through so much shit where in my head, anything that I fucking do, I don't really care how you feel or what you think. I don't care if you think it's sneaky. I don't care if you think it's a lie. I don't care. You wanna know why? Because I've been that person for you. I've been there for you.

[Speaker] Yeah, it looks like we have a ping from Tiffany's cousin Ebony. Let's see what it has to say.

[Speaker] Hi, I'm Tiffany's cousin and I think that Tiffany and Coi should just go their separate ways because that relationship is very toxic. Like there's been times when I have to come involved in their relationship and separate them for them to have their little break up, and she finds constantly, keeps finding ways to have him back in her life, always. And it don't do nothing best for her. Just, it's toxic. I just think someone with mommy issues can't be in a relationship with someone who has abandonment issues. It's just not going to work.

Ebony, you're welcome on my show anytime to be one of my You are welcome anytime here, Ebony. So y'all want each other's phones unlocked, right?

Yeah.

'Cause you feel like that's gonna be the solution to this?

It might not, but it might. I don't know, because in my head, right?

It's time to unlock the phone. Kwaison, we unlocked your phone. Actually, we did not 'cause you refused to unlock your phone.

Wait, hold on, pause, pause. Wait, wait, wait. Anytime she asks, like, mind you, how many times she went through my phone already, bro? I never sat here and just lied about, she went through my phone more than just twice.

No, I'm telling you.

I'm telling you.

So why did you refuse?

Because she went through my phone numerous times already. I already told this young woman everything she wanted to know.

Okay, well Tiffany, we unlocked your phone. Are you ready for this?

I don't know, man.

Okay. Well, actually, we didn't unlock Tiffany's phone 'cause she refused to go.

Exactly, come on. No, we're not unlocking my phone because I am not the one that's been cheating. I'm not the one that's in the hot seat. I'm not that one. It's premeditated.

No, it's not premeditated. If she do it, if she come back and I ain't never find out about it.

No, you're not going, I'm not giving you that satisfaction. Why am I giving you that satisfaction? To please you? Have you been pleasing me? Hell no. So why the fuck am I pleasing you?

What the fuck do I look like?

I'm not that girl.

So Tiffany, when you came out here, you said that one of the things you can't stand about him is that he's a pretender.

Yes, he's pretending.

But the biggest person that I see pretending and living in an imaginary world is you.

Really?

You got with a young man who had no experience in this world, had never really experienced the world, and decided to say, well, you know what? I want you to be this, right? And then got upset when he couldn't give you that right? You were almost in your 30s When you got together and he cheated on you in the first 30 days.

But this my thing.

Hold on, hold on. I've let you speak this entire time. You decided to stay after 30 days.

Right.

Then you decided to not only stay but to retaliate.

Right.

And as you have stayed and retaliated, you continue to break your self-esteem down.

Right.

You're not ready to be in a relationship You probably don't have a solid family life and you've been looking for somebody who's gonna give you some type of stability and you're staying with her because she provides you with that. And you've been abandoned before and you're looking for somebody to stay around and show you the love that you've been wanting.

Right.

And I see all those things. And if you want to have this family union, you want to have a man that's not gonna trigger you and it's gonna be healthy, you can find that. But you're never gonna find that staying with someone that's younger. Just because you've invested 3 years doesn't mean anything in the long run.

This is ridiculous that she's accusing my dad of cheating when she's the one probably out here doing whatever she wants to do.

For one, she's just way too young.

She's still in her party days.

She still wants to go out.

She still wants to go be free, but then have him paying all of her bills.

This is ridiculous that she's talking about marriage and kids.

They don't—

my dad does not need any more kids.

She's got my dad paying all of her bills. She's not stepping up to the plate as a woman. And in my opinion, they shouldn't even be together.

So she thinks you're still in your party days. Are you still in your party days?

Yes, but first of all—

She said yes. And you said yeah.

I want to react to that. Because first of all, I have two jobs. He does not pay my bills. She's lying on that. And for one, she's disrespectful. She's annoying as shit and she disrespectful. Like she needs to mind her business.

Got it. Carnell, how do you feel about what your daughter just said? Well, I'm with Crystal and I wanna be with Crystal.

I understand my daughter doesn't like the relationship and that, but that's not for her to decide, so.

Well, how do you feel about what Crystal just said? She said like, they made these comments about your daughter.

Maybe it is, I don't know.

It's so funny because I have, my discernment is telling me one thing and I'm just really ready to unlock these phones to get the truth of it.

Congratulations, man.

All right, well it's time to unlock the phone. Carnell, we unlocked your phone. All right. So Crystal, you wanna know if Carnell has been making any extra stops on his way home from work. Carnell says he is not. My Unlock the Phone investigator searched his GPS and found that Carnell is telling the truth. Crystal, you wanna know if Carnell is using any dating apps. Carnell says he is not. My Unlock the Phone investigator searched his apps and found that Carnell is telling the truth. Crystal, you wanna know if Carnell has been receiving calls from other women late at night. Carnell says he is not. My Lock the Phone investigator searched his calls and found that Carnell is telling the truth. Crystal, you wanna know if Carnell has been receiving inappropriate texts from other women. Carnell says he is not. Bonlocked the Phone investigator searched his texts and found that he's not telling the truth with this one. We have one text in the monitor.

Wow.

Hey, Anthony, it's nice to see you. I'll see you tomorrow. He says, hi, you finally text me, huh? Hi, yes, but I got to get to sleep now. I don't want to be too tired for work in the morning. Okay, I'll talk to you then. Good night, sweet dreams. So that was the extent of it. There was nothing more. There was nothing more past this.

Really, Karamo?

And this text—

Who the fuck is that?

And let's be clear, this text was only Monday, this past Monday. So there's nothing like that been going on for a while.

Who is this?

I couldn't tell you who it is 'cause I don't know the number.

You don't know the number?

I don't.

So who's texting? Who are you texting?

Well, you said you probably text me. You probably text me back.

It's clear that somebody's texting you and you're texting them back.

I honestly don't know who it is. So you're lying? No, I'm not lying.

Tell me the truth.

I'm telling you, I don't know who it is.

Who the fuck is this bitch texting you?

I don't know. Wow.

So you don't know? You're shutting me out, you're not gonna tell me the truth?

Look, I don't know who it was that texted me and I don't.

I actually believe that you are telling the truth. I actually believe, I really do believe, I really do. And I'm a pretty good judge of character. I'm a pretty great judge of character. And I truly do believe that like he probably was trying to have an interaction with somebody. They probably did not text him for the longest. They finally text back, he say, oh, you text me back? Back and then this was the extent. You notice something else? It says it's unread. So he hasn't even read this yet. So I do believe that—

It don't make sense though. It's weird like how you just suddenly get a text if you're not messing with nobody at work.

I'm not messing with anybody at work. I'm not exactly sure who that's from. But as you said, I didn't even— You said it was right in his face.

Dude, it's obviously something.

No, it's not. Well, outside of that, we do know, what we do know is that he's not going anywhere after work, that he's not, the late calls that he has have all been for work numbers. It hasn't been for any other number. So, from based on your questions, and I can't say that I know what you're doing the rest of your life, but based on what you're asking, the late night calls are for work. The going, coming home, he's just there. Even when he walked the dog, GPS shows it's around the corner and then come right back. We don't get anywhere extra when he's with his friends. Phone to say that he's going somewhere else.

And just this random text.

The only thing that we have is this random text. And again, this text doesn't, for me personally and professionally, doesn't give me pause for anything. Like the fact that it was, hey, oh, you text me back and then no response, don't even open it. That don't give me anything.

Well, it's because his phone was broke though, so maybe that's why.

Possibly. I would say this, well—

Well, obviously he had to give somebody his number.

Yeah.

You know, so.

Well, Carnell, you wanted to unlock Crystal's phone. So Crystal, we unlocked your phone. Unlock, unlock, unlock, unlock, unlock, unlock. Well, Carnell, you wanna know if Crystal has been using any dating apps. Crystal says she has not. My Unlock the Phone investigator searched her apps and found that Crystal is not telling the truth. My investigator found that she has an active Tinder account from February of this year. Carnell, you wanna know if Crystal is on any explicit websites. Crystal says she's not. My unlock the phone investigator searched her phone and found that Crystal is not telling the truth. My investigator searched her web history and found that Crystal has visited SkipTheGames, an adult escort site, 131 times. And the last visited this site October 10th. Carnell, you wanna know if Crystal has been receiving explicit texts from other men. Crystal says she has not. My unlock the phone investigator searched her texts and found that Crystal is not telling the truth. What?

No.

Crystal has 435 text exchanges with multiple men where she offered sex for money. Can I see the evidence bag?

What?

Where you going? No! Oh my God.

Thank you all.

Mm-mm. That can't be true.

So Crystal, you playing games now, girl.

No, I'm not.

Yes, you are, girl. You playing games. So you've been accusing this man and you are over here doing the most. I asked you if you in your partying days and you said clearly fast and quick, yes. And clearly from this booklet of messages, you clearly are in your party days and have been disrespecting this man nonstop. What you gotta say? You wanna go ahead and take the ring off and just put it right here? 'Cause I know he walked off, but I'm gonna go ahead and speak for him. Like, this is trifling-ass behavior. What the hell are you doing? Like, why are you taking advantage of this man? You know, you found him out.

I'm not taking advantage, but I feel like he was cheating on me.

No, don't gaslight me. We're not gonna play these games. We're not gonna play these games. We're not gonna play these games. You clearly, you clearly have been accusing this older man of doing stuff when this man is just stressed about work, the new dog you made him get, get and trying to figure out how to have a life with you. This man literally walking 2 hours, this dog that he probably didn't want, and you out here on these sites and texting men and saying, what price do we agree on? What we doing? Let's do this and that. Listen, you—

That was a long time ago.

This was October, girl. It is December. See, this is what I mean again when I say age, when you say age ain't nothing but a number. Yes, it is, because the maturity The maturity of a woman who understands that he is in, she's in a relationship, she wouldn't be doing these things. See, this is young girl behavior. This is not the behavior of a woman who's mature enough to be in a relationship.

But can he come back out here? I wanna apologize to him.

I'm sure this man is done with you from what I just saw. You called the show worried about Carnell's behavior, but it's crystal clear who he should have been concerned about, which is you. This man is done. I'm sure he's gonna forgive you just because of his kind nature. But at the end of the day, this is completely disrespectful. It's completely outta order. Everything you've done here is just, it's completely shit. And I hope you do some soul searching. And at the end of the day, this is the truth of it. His daughter was right about you. Yeah, this is not right.

No.

So I wish the best of luck. I wish the best of luck to Karamo, and I wish you a lot of growth and self-reflection. That's what I wish for you right now, all right? I'm sorry about that. The fact that you were with your wife for 20 years and she passed, I don't think you've probably finished grieving, and I think the fact that you haven't fully grieved is causing you not to see clearly into the decisions you're making with the next person you might be with. What do you have to say about that? How do you feel? It could be right. It could be right. Yeah. Do you feel alone right now? What's going on? What are you feeling? Used, pissed off. You're used and pissed off. Yeah. Now how you got your home life in this situation?

So basically they just gonna put the whole blame on me on everything.

Who else would it be on?

But I'm just saying like, no, every time I cheated, if I cheated, it was because of a reason. It was, I wasn't happy in the relationship.

Yeah, that's his thing.

I wasn't happy in the relationship though. I wasn't happy in the relationship. And when I bring these things up to each and every one of them, nobody understands what I feel or what I'm going through. 'Cause I don't have to cheat. I don't need to cheat. If I'm telling you what I'm not getting and what I'm lacking, then nobody's meeting up to what you want from me.

You want from me, you want from me, but nobody's giving me nothing.

But the last time that you just cheated, everything was good. We were good. This was our fresh slate. So what did I do wrong then? Nothing.

Yes.

Nothing.

So I'm gonna tell you the incident. So I moved everything from Florida to New York. We go to this bar. She's sitting there, I'm just there, I don't know anybody. The guy walks in between and he leans over and he's talking to her ear and whatever, whatever. So I'm looking like I'm just gonna play the field 'cause I don't know 'cause a lot of times—

And I ended it soon as I—

Hold on, hold on. A lot of times it be a friend of the family, a cousin or something like that. She always say that, right? So as he left, she turns around to me and start laughing. Oh.

I did giggle. I was not expecting it.

What you giggling for? I'm dead serious.

It was like a, I was like, oh no, it was nobody. That's crazy.

I know in my head what was going on.

You the cheater, so you trying to flip stuff. No, I'm not trying to flip.

I say, I'm a cheater, I'm a cheater, whatever you wanna say.

Cool. But you trying to flip it on me 'cause I let it be known.

No, no, no, no, I'm not doing that.

Nothing happened, Karamo.

Terrence, what I just did there is I let you express your entire story and there's nowhere in that story that warrants the behavior of you going back and forth between two women and cheating on both of them. So I, and that's just the reality. Now if you feel like your feelings aren't being heard, then you leave. You don't cheat on both of them. And hold on, and I gotta back this up because You and I are only 3 years apart. You're 40.

Yeah.

You're dealing with a 28-year-old and a 22-year-old. Yeah, I know. So there is somebody here who should have more maturity.

And that's, and I'm lacking. I'm lacking. That's why I came to you for help, for more guidance. My father wasn't there. I always run from a situation when I'm not being heard, when I'm not, when I don't feel like this is going to work.

And you run outta time.

And I don't want to do this with her right now.

And that's why you're running back to your ex. Because you feel like she's gonna hear you.

Nope. I mean, we started as friends first. So that's why I give her a little bit of recognition on that because we were friends.

So when did you realize that you wanted to make things work?

The relationship is not gonna work, never. It wasn't gonna work anyway.

So then if it doesn't work, why are you still sleeping with her?

Because, I mean, it was a comfortable place. If I'm not going to her, I don't wanna start over with somebody else.

So you're used to her.

What you mean?

I'm not going to, I'm not feeling her. to go sleep with a stranger. I'm not going to sleep with a stranger. I shouldn't be cheating out.

No, no. I want to be clear.

Take accountability. No, no.

Because what it is, I want to be clear. So you're using Tama?

No, it's not using her. Cuz she calls me for it.

No, she calls him.

See y' all coming. Y' all jumping the gun. Y' all jumping the gun.

She called him.

Y' all jumping the gun. But she.

She called you. But you walk in for her every time.

Me walking in. But I gotta ask you This, I gotta ask you this because you want a family with Kiara. Yes, sir. You want to be solid with her. Yes, sir. So you're coming here and your hope is that by unlocking this phone is that you all will get transparency and that this can be—

That's what I want.

That's what you want. I want to know right now, if you want a family with her and you want to settle with this, can you tell Tomajah right now, I don't want you, I don't want to sleep with you, and only thing I want to do is co-parent? Can, no, I don't, no.

Is either of those words? 'Cause I know she's sensitive. I don't want to use that word, which you just said.

No, why don't you say that word?

I still have a daughter. I still have a son with her. I still have a son with her. I said, it wasn't no son with me. You're the mother of my kid. I'm not gonna disrespect you.

Karamo.

Tamaja, I only wanna co-parent with you. I don't want a relationship with you at all.

Got you.

Tamaja, how do you feel about that?

It's neutral.

Same. I just wanna co-parent. No relationship.

Y'all just had sex for the fun of it the last time.

Man, we had conversations already. We know we not gonna be together, we're not having no sexual relations, no nothing. That's what I'm trying to explain to you, but you're not gonna believe me on the behalf of my past or I cheated already. You don't trust me, so now I'm here, I'm trying to see where I could go at to please you, to understand what do I need to do for you to regain my trust again.

Well then that's probably why you're here, to unlock your phone. This ain't no comedy game, this is my real life, I'm really trying to do this. It's time to unlock your phone. Terrence, we unlocked your phone. Actually, Terrence, we did not unlock your phone. You refused. Okay, okay, okay. I didn't know that. So in hopes of being transparent and building your family.

How?

How?

'Cause I already told you it's stuff in there. I never deleted nothing.

Listen, we watch Karamo every day. He knows damn well you not about to look for for nothing old. I wanna know that right now, for the last couple months, have you been solid with me? That's what I wanna know. We said we was starting over. So if we starting over, show me that we're starting over. Show me that it's nothing else.

How do you feel about him not unlocking his phone?

I knew, I figured, you know, like it's not—

You knew this was coming.

Yeah, like, you know, but it's like, you know why we came here for real. I don't know why she's here, So if she's here, why you not unlocking your phone? Why cannot not know that you're—

So you do understand, because the thing is, I wanna have empathy for your experience, but I can't have empathy for your experience until you take accountability in this moment and do what you need to do as a man and as a father. And because I do appreciate the step you've taken with her, but it didn't feel fully— When he said culpability, I kind of believed it, because when I first asked you if you could say that, Instead of doing it, you gave a response.

Yeah, 'cause he cares about how she feels too much. But that's our issue.

That's all I'm saying. I don't know what you're expecting. I don't wanna hurt either one of them.

But how many times have you hurt me? Let's be realistic. But you wanna, you covering her feelings, but it's mine. It's been like that from the beginning. Yes, it is.

So you want me to say just to make you happy?

Yes, absolutely.

So tell her. So just say. Absolutely. So that's what's gonna make you happy?

Because why do you I don't give a fuck about how she feel. I don't understand.

You're still the mother of my kids at the end of the day, Karamo.

I had two children while you was disrespecting me the whole time.

Never, never, never, never.

The whole time, Terrence.

Come on, brother. Cheating is disrespect.

Yes, I got it.

But I'm not cursing you, I'm not calling you out your name or none of that. So why would I do that to her?

See, but this is the issue and I'm gonna be real with you. I would love to help you, but when you don't take the steps for me to be able to do that, She's looking for transparency. And when you refuse to unlock your phone, then transparency goes out the window.

Unlocking the phone is not gonna fix anything. That's not gonna fix nothing. We still have problems at home that she's not talking about.

But hold on, but guess what?

If you wanted me to give you the first step, whole thing is on me cheating and I'm not getting that part.

No, it's deeper than that. That's why I said I didn't know why she was here, 'cause it was deeper than that.

What's the inner core for me to do all this stuff?

But my thing is, if you want, listen, you want me to give you all of me. I don't trust you right now. You know that, you know why. You have done too many things. You have hurt me and hurt me and hurt me. So if you can show me right now that you are just not doing nothing, you here with me, then we can, this will be a clean slate. Cool, we're good. But you won't do that because you know that you probably doing something. I only know about her. God forbid who else, you get what I'm saying?

So, so, you will, the truth of the matter is if you want this to work, be more transparent with these two women. Start with the one you're living with and then start with the other one that has to co-parent because right now keeping them in limbo, going back and forth, there's no transparency. All that feels like is you're building you're building lies, you're building deceit, you're building just things that are never going to help you to be healthy as a family. So now that you got information and you got information, y'all gonna make decisions and I don't wanna see you alone, but I do feel like you gotta do some growing alone before you can be with either of these women. And that's the truth.

Maybe.

Not a maybe, that's it. I saw you moving real close. How much do you love this woman?

I love her a lot.

Yeah.

Yeah, she brings out a lot in me, man. So I definitely love her a lot.

So how does it make you feel when she talks about the fact that you're giving out this money?

I kind of get a little irritable. It's part of my love language, honestly. I come from the hood. What we end up doing is if one of us was down, we looked out for one another. So I remember where I come from. So when I see a lot of people, when I see a lot of people go through things, then I just be wanting to help them out.

Yeah.

You know, I do try my best.

Makes sense. But at the same time, Your woman, I get it, I understand, I appreciate the fact of you giving back. But if your woman is saying there's an issue with the amount of money you've given, why is it holding you? Why are you not able to hear what she's saying?

I actually, I do, I do hear it.

'Cause $2,000, she said you gave away $2,000 in one month, I mean one week.

One week, yeah.

That's a lot of money to give away in one week. I mean you got it, but that don't mean everybody else gotta get it.

Right, right, right. I mean, I don't know, I feel like if I got it and I can help, you know what I mean, I'm gonna do what I can do.

Got it.

I feel like they definitely taking advantage.

Yeah.

Straight up.

They all be like, oh, we ain't got no food card here.

So this is just activity from you. So $60 here, $105 there, $196 there, $60 there. These are all different people.

Yeah.

So everyone just knows that they can come to you and ask for money.

Yeah.

Like, this is just a whole walking bank right here.

Not a walking bank.

Please hit my babe up and just be like, my kids need some Pampers. I need my—

not I need my hair done, but it has to be stuff that— don't say a baby. Or a senior, he got you.

So you arguing about money how often?

Oh man, a few times a week. Really whenever she see me sending money out.

He be sneaking.

Yeah.

And giving people money.

My gosh. Is that causing an issue for you in the sense that she's telling you like, this is holding me back for the future?

Yeah, it's a little scary.

He acting kind of serious right now about it, but when we talk about this at home and he'll be like, Man, I got it. As long as I got air in my— as long as I'm breathing, I got it.

We got it.

He like laughing, playing, hit you on the booty.

And I be like, OK. And all that stuff.

But like, he's acting serious, but he's playing. He really still constantly does it. And I don't think he realized, like, you make me feel so secure in a lot of ways. I told you that you are my best friend. I told you that I respect you. I follow you. But that's the one thing that will keep me from being 100% submissive to you because we can't be growing and everybody in the hood got all our money.

So you own your own business. Tell me how you started it.

Basically, I was 22 years old, met a guy who owned his, or he was actually writing his business plan at a juvenile detention center. I would see him just working on his MacBook. Then I eventually asked him like, hey, you know, what are you doing on your MacBook? And he was like, man, I'm starting a business plan. Now we're 22 at this time. He gave me a little bit of information and said, what you good at? I said, "Man, I'm good at protecting people." And he was like, "All right, start a security business." Took off with it myself. Like I just, you know.

Good job.

Yeah.

I mean, it's so interesting that one moment shifted your whole life to a path where you're actually now sustaining yourself at such a young age, especially in Black folks. They don't teach us like, "Hey, you know, you can start a business very early on." But I also believe that you do love this woman and you want to have a future with her. And she's telling you, look at this, she got on your shoulder. She's telling you that the money is an issue that you're giving away. And even though it's noble you're giving it away, what is life like without her?

It would honestly be different because when you've been with somebody for so long, you mold your life around that person. But I used to have the hood mindset to where I wasn't as outgoing as I am now. You know what I mean? It's just a lot though she's actually brought out of me.

You said the hood mentality growing up, what was life like What was it like growing up for you?

Single mother, 4 siblings, father that, I don't know, you know, I think he has some things going on within himself in the divorce that they had. So I became the man of the house at a young age. You know, when you young and you trying to figure out, you know, manhood without the guidance, you kind of start trying to put yourself around other boys and that's what I did. We had the negative type of, you know what I mean? Like people that would be in our ears like, "Hey man, sell this. Like here, sell this, you'll make some money." And so we kind of went off with that, got into hustling, some other things.

Yeah, I get it, I get it, I understand.

Some other things, some other things.

Some other things, some other things.

So it kind of escalated to where, man, we got into like, you know, fights, you know, seen some robberies, seen some shootings, retaliation.

So this, I asked you that because it gives me context even more about why you're giving. So I have to ask you, what did you receive during that time? During that time?

Honestly, the only thing I can say I received is just knowledge.

I wanna know, you wanna marry this woman. Do you also wanna start a family with her? 'Cause she brought up earlier that kids might be an issue.

No, I really don't think it's an issue. I did talk to her about wanting kids and whatnot and she was like, I'll give you a baby. You know what I'm saying?

Oh.

Might've been.

Hold on.

So you just told me, you said no, you're not doing it. Now you're doing it.

Wait a minute.

You really want another one?

You want another one?

I really don't want another one, but when you are married and if we get married and he sacrifices and does what he needs to do, this man's never had a baby before, we would discuss it.

Do you feel like she controls you with money?

I don't feel like she controls me. I just feel like, you know what I mean? She just, she shows a lot of concern.

Good.

Yeah, not concern.

'Cause I see that as well. I see that as concern as well.

Yeah.

I don't see that as control at all. And I also don't, I think that the communication here is pretty great. I think the thing for me that we need to realize is that if you really do see a future with her is that you gotta take accountability for how your actions today are gonna be stopping you from having the future you want tomorrow. Because y'all are a beautiful couple. Like I just love y'all together, right? They're couple goals. What do you think it's gonna take for you to, okay, black love, there we go.

Y'all ready?

Angel, do you have an ultimatum for Solo today?

Yeah.

Okay, what's the ultimatum?

Say it right now.

Yeah, say it right now. What's the ultimatum?

You know, I don't wanna lose you. You know, again, we both feel that we have, we just stumbled into each other's life. I love you, I respect you. But for me to be the woman that you really want, and like you always say, like, oh, I want people to come and go outta my life. I don't wanna be that. And so I have been there where, 10 or 15 years later, I'm like, dang, I wish I would have did this. You haven't did that yet. And so if we keep going the way we're going as far as the finances, I'm not going to feel safe and secure financially with us moving out of my penthouse, getting another house, and getting married when you're dishing out this money. We can't know where we're going, where we're investing in. And so we haven't really talked about what's going to happen if, you know, you don't stop doing that. But for me, I feel like I'm not going to be able to be with you.

I'm not. I'm not.

I don't wanna say that, but I'm just saying like, I did that before, then I have to leave that person because that's still bothering me and I don't want that to happen, but I'm not doing it.

Most definitely.

So I mean, the communication, like I said, between y'all I believe is really great. Now I can also tell you're an attentive listener, which I appreciate. She's just telling you that she wants to feel secure. And right now the fact that you're giving away money is not making her feel secure for the future. I don't think it make any of us feel secure I don't care how much money you make. I know that you have a thriving business. I can see why you have a thriving business. But I also think that you're mature enough and strong enough to realize that you do want a better tomorrow. Would the young boy who had to take care of his mom, could he have imagined the life he has today with this beautiful woman and having a business? Mm-mm. Couldn't have. Couldn't have. Why couldn't he have imagined that?

Honestly, I didn't think I was gonna live this long.

Exactly. So yeah. So I say that to say, because I already, I know this, when you have a childhood where you don't even know if you're gonna live that long, if you don't know what's going to happen, it does rewire your brain into where everything's about the media because what's tomorrow? I don't know if tomorrow's there. And even though you're mature and you've gotten out of it, you also still work in a position that is to some degree dangerous. You're protecting people, which means you're always having to put yourself in front of somebody else to be protected, which again triggers that little boy who says, well, what about tomorrow? So let me help who I can help today. But what you have to start practicing as the man you are today is to say, even though I'm in this position where I protect other people, I must protect myself and I must protect my woman because we do have a future. You have to actually actively wake up and say to yourself, I see myself at 90 years old. Have you ever said that to yourself? Like, I see myself at 90? No. Yeah, I can believe it. I wanna know, it's like a weird conversation because you're working towards it, but there's also trauma from your past that you have to acknowledge and realize it's playing as a symptom in your relationship now of why you're giving out money.

Right.

You gotta start to wake up to yourself and say, I see a future with you and I see me when I'm 90 years old. That is your mantra. You're gonna be like, well, hold up, I'm giving you money. I need that for when I'm 90. I need that for when—

Oh God.

You feel what I'm saying?

Yeah.

You start to realize, plus she's telling you that she can't handle a future that makes her feel unstable, unsafe. Yeah. You gotta make her feel safe. You already do. You do it for everybody else.

Right.

Yeah.

So make her feel safe. So what's the mantra you're gonna say to yourself every morning?

I wanna see myself at 99 years old.

Boom.

Oh, 99.

Oh, 99. Yeah.

That's good.

You love your woman. There's not a doubt about it, but it is time, definitely. You made a big leap right now even by saying I see myself at 99 because you're just starting to rewire your mind to understand that you don't have to live for today. You can live for tomorrow and the future.

Future.

And so that's gonna stop you from giving that money, all right? But I do tell y'all, this kid stuff gonna come back up, so y'all better start talking about that somewhere else.

Most definitely.

Oh, see, see, so y'all, most definitely. You better get ready, girl. I don't know what you wanna— I don't know what's going on. You better get ready. I know he taking you to the moon, but he want a baby, okay? So get your mindset prepared.

Okay.

Listen, I'm telling you.

We'll see.

He do what he needs to do.

He gonna do it. I have faith. He gonna do it.

You got faith?

I got faith. He gonna do it.

So I guess we're having a baby then.

Oh!

Turn up, turn up.