Help! I Can’t Lose Another Child to Addiction! | KARAMO

2 years ago, Charlene lost her daughter Ashley after an on and off battle with addiction. And now she fears she's going to lose another child, her son Nick. After her daughter's death, Charlene says her son Nick moved across the country, abandoning her and his dreams. And she is desperate to mend the broken relationship with her son and hopes that with my help, he will see that she is not trying to control him. She only wants the best for him. Everyone help me welcome Charlene to the show. How are you doing?

Hi, thank you so much for having me.

Yes, of course. You look beautiful.

Thank you, so do you.

Welcome, thank you. So this is a very hard topic to talk about.

It is.

So you lost your daughter 2 years ago.

Yes.

Was there a history of drug abuse? In, or substance abuse with her?

Substance abuse has been in my family for years. I was not expecting this phone call this time, and it's the worst shock because we've worked so hard together. You know, I'm someone who's been in recovery for 25 years. Mm, good job. Thank you, thank you. My children grew up in the program. When my daughter struggled, she knew where to go.

Can you tell me what happened the day she died?

Oh God, it was, it's just, it was the worst phone call, the worst experience that you could ever imagine happen happen. She went back to Jersey. When she got there, I was in contact with her and then it started to happen. So my house in New Jersey, I have someone who takes care of the house and knows Ashley. A couple days after she was there, I get a phone call like something's up with Ashley. You know, and so I was like, oh God, you know, the heart panic. And I reached out to her, I was in touch with her and immediately she was deny, deny, deny. But she then told me, listen, I drank and I took a Percocet. And at that point though, I still thought like, okay, as long as she's not going to the city. Ashley has had friends that haven't moved on from using. She got with these friends, they were literally doing fentanyl. The next morning I got the worst phone call. She's gone. And I'm just like, what? Like, what? No, no. You know, from that point it just all started hitting me. Drugs and alcohol are bad. They never served us or my family well.

Do you have these same concerns with Nick?

With Nick? Yeah, absolutely.

Your son Nick moved across country country after his sister's death. Why?

I mean, Nicholas, I think, is totally grieving, but I also think that he's running. He's running from the pain of it all.

Do you think he was able to properly grieve?

I don't think Nick was able to properly grieve because it was also during the pandemic.

So how has your relationship with your son been since your daughter's passing?

Well, immediately, right, we bonded together as a family. I feel like he was acting like it's time to move on, but at the same time, inside, he was suffering in silence because he up and left and just kind of left me high and dry.

What was he like before he lost his sister?

Nick is amazing. He's like super friendly, outgoing. When he's in your presence, he wants to make you feel happy.

Yes.

Maybe he wanted to be better or he had a little trouble pursuing, 'cause he's a creative. Nick's an artist. So like he's always had an outlet.

I heard you tell my producers that he was a dreamer and that when he moved, you think he gave up on his dreams.

Yeah, Nick's a big time dreamer. If he gave up on, his magic, and he's also an artist, you know, and he even did some standup. He's really good at a lot of things. Like, he's doing construction right now.

So I wanna know from you, what do you want to happen today? I understand the grief from your daughter, the thing that you're dealing with as a family. What do you want my help with?

What I would really like your help with is I just wanna know from Nick, what is it gonna take for him to follow his dream? They're right in front of him.

All right.

You know?

Yeah, well listen, let's hear what Nick has to say.

She wants me to be this clean, this mature.

Non-drug using individual.

Okay, she wants me to be this non-drug using, so if I don't ever, if I don't stop drinking or drugs, then I'm not good enough.

Do you engage in using drugs or alcohol?

Yes.

Both?

No, just marijuana.

Nothing else?

No.

Any history in the past?

No.

So why is your mom thinking that you're actually hanging out with people who are doing drugs?

He got in trouble with doing, with someone smoking weed in the car.

Literally, Ashley has passed away, died. She's dead right now. When's the last time I can go smoke a joint? If I can sit home after a long day, most people can drink a beer. I'm not going out and partying. I'm smoking my joint.

Nick, I wanna know this. Your mother thinks that you haven't grieved properly and that's why you ran away. Is that true?

I ran away because of this, of this is how it is. And especially after Ashley died, 'cause Ashley was kind of like the mediator. So after that, it's kind of been like a fight. So I just have to, I kind of just wipe my fingers with it 'cause I can't be heard. I'm not heard. You don't listen to me. No, I'm not heard.

Have you ever told your mom how you feel?

I've tried, but every time I tell her, she justifies it as my thought process isn't valid.

Why do I, how do I make you feel not valid? It's not true.

You're completely lying. That's a lie. I don't wanna listen to it. I don't even wanna entertain it.

I don't think this is how I talk.

Just a moment because I'm seeing a tear fall down your eye. What's making you emotional?

Ashley. I wish she was here, like right here to get in between us and we don't have this. I don't want this.

But there's, Nick, there is no this. We're talking, like when you talk about the weed, can we just be clear? For him, the weed doesn't serve him well. For you personally.

Okay, so now it's something else.

It's always been the weed, Nick. It's always been the weed.

Do you think that the way that you two communicate is healthy.

We're just talking like this. I am into healthy debates. Like, I think you should be able to put your things out there, but if you say something that's not true—

Well, Charlene, I'm gonna ask you this. Your son is saying that the healthy debates and your daughter not being here to mediate is why he left.

Okay, you know, if you're saying that's why you left, okay. I thought maybe you left because you weren't grieving and because you had another opportunity. And whatever I'm asking of you of your life, no matter where you leave or where you are, I'm never not gonna stop pushing you, Nick. To be the best Nick possible.

I understand that.

That's never gonna stop.

I get that.

Listen, I'm just at this point, I have to be like, Nick is 20.

I wanna ask you this. Why do you think that Nick is not being the best possible Nick?

Weed does take a lack of motivation from you, but for Nick, I noticed that it kinda just puts him in like everything's okay mentality. So he doesn't really push. And the thing with his art, Nick started drawing at a young age. I never said, hey, you're gonna be an artist. These are things that Nick, in being honest, that he's good at, he does.

I wanna ask you this. Do you want Nick to follow his dreams or do you want him to follow your dreams?

I want Nick to absolutely follow his dreams.

So then why do you act like a stage mom?

All I've ever wanted to be for you, Nick, is help for you to do whatever that is, whatever that would be for you, but I want you to do something. Can you just not sit and bake away?

There's two things that are happening right now because I'm hearing you, it's like the drugs is getting mixed into sort of like his ambition. And there's a fear about drugs, which rightfully so, especially with your family history and losing your daughter, but then it's bleeding into like his dreams and how he wants to live his life and you sort of like pushing him. And I think those two things have to be separate is the first thing. Because he's telling you right now, and I'm gonna ask you, has he ever exhibited any, that he's ever used any other drugs other than smoking weed?

No, but he uses that. He's used that for years. Nick has always come from the place of listen, I'm not like Ashley. And that's the problem with drugs and the disease of addiction.

Well then why can't you accept me back?

Let me just finish. The drugs are just a symptom of the disease. You're in prison by—

But he just asked a very valid question. If he's saying I haven't done anything and I will not and he's showing me—

But that's not the point. The disease of addiction is a mental illness. I agree. That's your mental state. He's mentally having trouble in his life.

But see, again, you're mixing two things.

They're all mixed in. That's how it is.

I actually don't believe in this situation it is mixed in. I think in this situation particularly, you have this history with drugs. You're assuming that drugs are gonna cause this to happen.

I've seen it though, I've seen it.

What part of my life is like, oh, he's gonna end up on the streets, he's homeless, he's gonna do this.

Nick's doing very well.

I mean, let's be—

Am I happy right now?

Am I happy? Yes. I can stay in my life for the next 5 years and be completely content.

I've watched this this entire time. You've talked over him the entire time. You negated everything he said this entire time.

Well, I mean, that's why we came here, is because I thought I had a voice to finally get to speak, and I've listened, and I'm willing to listen. That's just who I am. So if he needs to speak, I'm here to listen too.

It literally takes for me to say something so obscene.

Okay, well, you know what? The thing is, is this not fun and games anymore? Like, I lost my daughter, and I'm tired of what—

And I lost my sister!

Well, aren't you tired of what the disease of addiction does?

I don't think this is a conversation that you have to have with him about addiction. I understand your fears about it.

Because it's addiction is why. Nick is a brilliant, amazing, awesome, fabulous person. The only problem we have is addiction.

Chalene, he's not addicted right now.

He's not? I've lived it. This is my life, guys. I've lived it. I've seen it. You don't think addiction, it's not the drug? He doesn't need to be on heroin to be a drug addict.

So listen. What you have done with your son, you've done with me. You've negated everything I say. You talk over me. You've done this here. And you're passionate. And I do not think you're a bad woman. And I believe that you are trying your best to do what you think is best for your children, especially after losing one. You're trying to hold on, you're trying to support, but I think you're doing it in the wrong way. I wanna tell you this, and I'm gonna say this to you so you can hear me.

Okay.

The same way that you understand addiction, you studied it, you researched it.

I lived it.

You lived it.

Right.

I've done the same.

Okay.

I've lived it with my own personal addiction. I watched my own child almost die. I had to save his life. I researched it and this is what I'm trained in.

Okay.

So I understand everything you're saying, but I can tell you with similar training and similar experiences, you're projecting something onto your son that I believe is probably pushing him away. He does not have an addiction issue right now.

Anything's a hindrance. We don't even need to talk about drugs. I'm just talking about a hindrance. Any hindrance in Nick's life I might point out.

Listen, this is a never-ending circle that we're going through right now. And I do understand what you're going through. I'm gonna tell you the person who needs the most work here is you.

Okay, I'll receive that, sure. I don't deny it. I need all the help I can get and I'm open to it. I want it.

What you need is you need to hear your son. Nick, what do you want from your mom?

I just, like I said, I just want her to understand me and able to listen to me and hear what I'm trying to say.

I understand that losing a child is the worst thing ever. I understand, but what I'm trying to say to you is I don't want you to lose another child who's here living.

Absolutely, yeah.

And you're pushing him away. He's a young man. Let him figure out his own life. Your son just said he doesn't think he'll ever be good enough.

But I mean, when are you ever gonna be good enough or not good enough? Nothing, I'm never—

I feel great enough. I look in the mirror every morning, I say, Right. Nick.

I love you how you are. Yeah.

All right, Nick, before I go, is there anything you wanna say to your mom?

I love you. There's nothing between us that will ever defeat that fact that I love you and I have a warm heart for you.

I love you.

But I just want you to understand me and I just want you to hear me and I'll be there no matter what. No matter what goes in between us or whatever happens, I will always be there for you no matter what. 'Cause I don't want you, like you said, I don't want you to lose another child. I don't want you to do that 'cause I'm living and I'm here and I do want a relationship with you. I just hope that you can have the relationship with me.

Yes.

I see you're both grieving. I do believe that even though you said you're happy, I think that you still need some more grief counseling after what happened with your sister, especially since she played a big role in this relationship. And I do believe that that is something you should really get immediately. But I also think that you have to stop engaging so that way your mother can learn to let you be. You understand?

I understand.

Good luck to you both. Listen everyone, thank you for being with us. Come back next time, friends, so we can keep talking and growing. I love you all. Hold on, where you going? I'll tell you where you're going. Right here to subscribe and right here to watch more.

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