I Raised My Son To Be A Man, Not Gay! | KARAMO

A lot happened when I was 13. When I was 13, I actually was outed by a family member of mine.

Yeah.

We were sitting at a dinner table and this person found explicit content on my computer. I was 13 and exploring, you know, the world, let's call it. Yeah. And then this person took my computer, turned it around to my whole family, and that's how I was forced out.

And how did your mom react to that moment?

She seemed shocked. Everybody seemed shocked. But what happened was she then kind of brought me outside and I felt started berating me. And when I say that, I mean asking a lot of questions that at 13 you're not prepared to answer. And I feel that if I was straight and the same thing happened, you know, people say things all the time, oh, give kids magazines and all this sort of stuff. I feel like it was because I was gay, not because of the content, that this became such a big deal and such an eruption. It kind of was the first time I felt unprotected by my mom in this whole thing. And I feel like as adults, you have the ability to take these situations and reframe the shame is maybe how I would describe it. And it really, you know, that was the beginning of a series of events that left me feeling that same way.

Was your relationship with your mom good before that?

Yeah, me and my mom were like best of friends. My father died when I was 3. So it was really me and my mom that were left with each other. I feel like it completely reframed our relationship because a lot of what happened afterwards, the, you know, sometimes like the name calling and some of the other things that would happen really just left me feeling like parentless sometimes.

Mm, got it. And what was it like living in the house afterwards after this moment?

Yeah, it was difficult because I feel like my mom harbored a lot of resentment towards me. And so the way it enacted itself was me feeling very isolated and alone. And then I think it just, again, it kind of went on. I was, I actually, when I went to college for my, the first week I was in college, I was actually sexually assaulted while I was there. So, you know, then my mom, it, you know, I would say it gets better, but you know, it's always something that sticks with you. But when that happened and I was thinking of who to call, I actually called my aunt and I didn't call my mom because I felt like she would again blame this, these tropes of gay men as promiscuous and that kind of mentality.

Do you feel like she resents you?

I think my mom mourns a version of our life that she wishes she would have.

So how did you cope with this isolation in that time?

Some people turn to all kinds of things. For me, it was really turning to school. I went to Brown, I went to Harvard, I worked on Wall Street. I did all these things. Thank you, thank you. But for me— [Speaker] You go, 'cause I got a couple homeboys I can hook you up with, okay? [Speaker] That's all the stuff that happened, but for me that comes with a lot of hurt because that was my reaction to feeling like I was so alone. It was trying to overcompensate in these other ways because when it was scholastic achievement, everything was great. My mom would be happy. When I graduated, I was going to Brown, big celebration party, but it's always about those things and it always loops back to this idea of my mom being this great mom and all these accomplishments and then it just minimizes my experience, which was really a flawed childhood in a lot of ways.

Listen, you preaching to the choir. Why you think I got a talk show?

Sorry.

I tell people all the time, people are like, what propels you? I'm like, trauma.

Yeah, trauma.

Let me tell you, you have a daddy who only applauds you when you successful, you gonna find out how to be successful because you're searching for that love. We can joke about it now because we made it, but we've all done that. We respond to the love we didn't get in a certain way. And I'm like, for me, it was the same thing. I was like, Oh, so you don't wanna acknowledge me being gay. You don't wanna acknowledge these things I'm going through, but you do acknowledge when I get a good grade or when I achieve or when something goes well. So let me keep achieving to make me feel like I'm getting the love that I should have just gotten unconditionally. So I understand that. I get that.

Thank you for validating that.

Yeah, I get it. I understand it. You're welcome. So what do you need from your mom today?

I need my mom to stop focusing focusing on making herself feel better about the mother she was and focus on validating and affirming my feelings and where I stand so I can heal. Because I feel like what happens is every time we engage in these conversations, it flips to, well, I was crying too, I was sad too, I was this too. And sometimes I talk to my mom about this concept of like emotional immaturity, which is a very new term that I've kind of started. But it's like my mom's inability to to just accept and stand in who she was limits her from validating who I am and where I am and what happened to me, you know?

Got it. Well, thank you for being clear about that. Let's hear what your mother has to say about this. So everyone, please welcome TJ to the show. Hi, TJ. You look absolutely beautiful. How are you doing?

It's a pleasure to meet you.

Nice to meet you as well.

You doing okay, ma'am? Yeah, I'm doing okay. Awesome.

So how do you feel about what was said?

Where do I start?

Yes.

Okay, so when I had just came home from work and his brother and his family were at the house, we were in the process of getting ready to celebrate Dakota's 13th birthday. As soon as I walked in the house, the computer was turned around and it was gay porn. I was shocked. I wasn't prepared for that. And then too, in all honesty, I'm a baby boomer. That's not what we did. You know, if it was, then it was talked about behind closed doors. You know, that wasn't something that we just openly You know, my parents didn't accept it. It was just shocking. And so I didn't really know what to do. I couldn't stop crying because what I knew was that my son was a Black man. And not just a Black man, but now a Black gay man. I knew what society would do to him. Just eat him up and spit him. I don't have a problem with sexuality. It's just that I don't want it for him.

You are entitled to feel how you feel and your feelings are valid for you and I accept that. My difficulty is that we're having a conversation about, we're here to talk about these elements, right? And it always shifts back to me, me, me, me, me with my mom. I felt this way. What did I experience? I didn't know this, I didn't know that. And she said the world was gonna chew you up and spit you out. And look at me today. It didn't. So can you just accept that maybe you had the wrong view and validate that that—

I accept it, I own it, and I hear what you're saying and I apologize. And I've been apologizing for years.

Do you think he's forgiven you?

No.

You flipped our parent-child relationship on its head when you said the things you said to me when I was that age.

What did your mother say to you?

Well, let's just say I raised you to be a man and not gay. I'll just say, you know, let's just, I'll put it like that.

Was she saying the F word?

It wasn't the F word, but variations. You know, these, you know, this is, this is, You know, these sort of things, they sting you.

I apologize.

I accept that, but you've said you apologize for that before too, but then still sit here and say, well, I can't imagine ever talking to my mom like this. Well, it's not a normal parent-child dynamic. Not to mention that because you were a single mom, I had to take on a lot more as a child. And so our whole relationship is more of a partnership than a parentship is what I would say.

Do you feel like it's more of a partnership?

Well, when his dad passed at 3, I told him, I said, "We're partners." I said, "And let me tell you why we're partners." I said, "Because what I need you to do is I need you to empower your brain." I didn't want him going down the same path his dad went down. So my whole thing was to throw everything I had behind him so that he could be intelligent, smart, exposing him to everything I could in the world.

Do you feel like you treated him differently?

I did. I own that, I did. Dakota, in my opinion, he robbed me of a daughter-in-law that I could torture, that I could literally torture.

That is—

I know, I know, but that's just how I am, Dakota. I'm just being honest with you. And I told you that. He robbed me of a daughter-in-law, of the typical, the typical family, you know, grandkids. And I know he said he's gonna have grandkids and God knows I can't wait.

You already make my family that's for the future for me feel like it's less than.

Oh, Dakota?

It does.

Dakota is not less than. Dakota is not less than.

That is hurtful.

No, it's not.

Because you're saying, Robyn, and I know that it's minimizing and I am whole. I will have a family that is whole. Nothing about me or the family that I have is anything less than some idea that you have in your mind about what it should be.

Dakota, I apologize. I can't apologize.

You keep apologizing and you keep saying the same stuff, so what is the point of apologizing?

Because I just want us to move forward, that's all I want. I just want us to move forward.

It's really hard to move forward with the things that you say. It's really hard to move forward.

Do you understand how the words that you're saying, why they're triggering him and hurting him?

I do.

Okay, so from your perspective, why do you think you're saying that? 'Cause I wanna know.

That's what I've always said. It's not that I'm trying to trigger him or hurt him, 'cause I'm not. I'm not trying to do that. But it's just the way I was raised and what I know.

Yeah.

It's not, you know, when you don't know what you don't know. You know, I never even heard of emotional immaturity. I never even heard of some of these terms until Reese. I'm like, what the heck is that, hell? You know?

I think it's important that we come here and the reason why we're here is because I think, I don't feel like you're alone. I think there are other kids and families out there with the same exact issues. I think it's just not talked about a lot. It's a lot to come talk about this here.

No, I appreciate both of your braveries because the truth of the matter is, is that it is. There's two different generations that we're looking at here who are speaking and saying that we love each other and we wanna support each other. But there's a generation that didn't have the knowledge that many of us have. Absolutely.

Absolutely.

TJ, I want you to get this. I'm gonna use the language you've said back to you so you can understand. Do you understand that when you say things to him, it robs him of his emotions? It robs him of his dreams. Do you see that? Because like you saying like—

I do now.

You do now. Because like I understand.

Not just today, I'm talking about maybe a couple of weeks ago.

Got it, you started to get it.

I started to getting it.

Yeah, I got it. Because the thing is, and I appreciate you expressing that point, for me and I understand how it triggered you and I understand what you're saying you need to your mom. You need her to, I want you to tell her just clearly one more time what you need.

I need you to stop trying to reframe your motherhood in my adolescence and puberty times. Accept that it was flawed and stop trying to make excuses for it and for yourself. In this active journey towards us moving forward. Moments like what just happened put us back. They take us back.

So can you do that? Can you?

I can.

You can. So from now on, the past, no more like, I'm gonna justify, I'm gonna explain. I'm just gonna acknowledge it was not right.

I can definitely do that.

Okay.

I can definitely. You can do that. Because I'm here to move forward, not to go back.

Yeah.

Same.

I gotta tell you something though.

Same.

Yeah.

I gotta, hold on, I gotta tell you something though. Amidst the hurt, which is very valid, I have to acknowledge you actually have a mother who's actually trying to grow.

Agreed.

And one of the things that I think when it comes to this generation, different generations, is that we want them to grow at our pace. We don't realize that she has to grow at her pace.

Absolutely.

And I think one of the things that as she's making this commitment, I would ask you to make a commitment to give her a little more grace in her growth.

I receive that. I'll do that.

Thanks.

I receive that.

Listen, I hope you feel heard. I do. Do you feel as if this was a first step in y'all getting somewhere?

I absolutely do. And I thank you for it.

Yeah, you're welcome. Do you feel good?

Absolutely.

Thank you, sir. Good, good, good. I wish y'all the best of luck. There's a lot of love here. You're welcome. Everyone, thanks for being with us. Make sure to come back next time, friends, so we can keep talking and growing. I love you all.