I'm Checked Out Of Our 21-Year Marriage! | KARAMO

Hi, Karamo. My name's Penny, and my sister Tracy's husband Richard is a no-good cheat. I want to prove that he's cheating on Tracy, but he keeps lying to her and covering up his tracks. Richard needs to be a big boy, pull up his big boy pants, and admit that he's cheating on my sister. Karamo, my sister deserves the truth, and if Richard isn't going to give it to her, we need to unlock his phone and get it.

Okay, I hear her. Listen, Richard denies cheating on Tracy, so we're unlocking his phone today. But listen, we're going to hear everyone's side to this story. But first, let's start with Penny, who's joining us by remote. Penny, thank you for being here. Hi. How are you doing?

You're welcome. I'm doing well, and yourself?

Listen, those were some big accusations against Richard. Do you have any proof?

Absolutely, I have proof. A few months ago, My sister called me and said, I think my husband's cheating. And I said, well, here's what you do is you download some of these apps and hide them. And she did. She got some recordings and she sent me one. She didn't show any kind of explanation or anything else of what I was going to be hearing. And it was quite obvious there was cheating going on.

Wow. And so you sent an audio that you want me to hear?

Yes.

OK. Before we play this message, I'm being told that I need to mute the audio to the at-home audience. So sorry, y'all. But the studio audience, we about to hear something, I guess. There's about to be— let's take a listen to what we about to hear. Well, I'm gagged.

Y'all gagged?

See, there you go.

I think we all had, we thought like, okay, this is just silent, and then all of a sudden it got louder.

Exactly. And everybody knows what that was. And there's, if he sits here and he continues to lie and deny to my sister, and it ends today.

Okay, so, okay, okay, got it. So let me be clear, from your perspective, I know we heard, but from you, you're saying that was Richard having sex with someone else?

Absolutely.

Okay then.

Absolutely.

It was obvious.

And have you confronted Richard about it?

Nope.

No?

I will today though.

Wow. Wow. Did your sister confront him about this?

Several times, but he continues to lie to her.

Well listen, everyone, I think it's time to hear Richard's side. So everyone, please welcome Richard to this show.

Hey Richard, how you doing? How's it going, boss? How you doing?

Nice to meet you. Take a seat. All right, so Richard, what's your response to what your sister-in-law Penny just said?

She's lying, I mean, I'll be honest. People can think what they want to. Richard, Richard, everybody heard the audio. Before you worry about my closet, clean your own closet.

We tearing my sister apart. Well, how do you explain that audio then?

I don't know, I couldn't tell you what it is, if I'm being honest with you. I have no idea. But I know what I've done and what I ain't done.

Got it.

We get to unlock your phone today, so we'll see how that goes.

Already done. You wanna talk? Let's talk.

So you can heal.

So clearly you two don't get along, right?

Yes, we do.

Have y'all ever had a good relationship?

I don't care about her. I mean, she's nobody to me as far as I'm concerned.

Okay then.

We've always gotten along and we've always been— I get along with you 'cause you're my wife sister.

We're a family. That's that.

So, but I'm still confused of what you think was on that audio or like—

I don't, I couldn't tell you, but I have no idea. I'm not gonna lie about it.

So did you know that Penny had your wife put an audio recording device on your phone?

My wife did it like 5 years ago.

So you did know that?

Yeah, well, I knew it about, I found out about 3 years ago.

Okay, so you know that your wife put it on there.

On there, yeah.

And so you know that she's been recording?

Yep.

So you do know that the recording came from your phone?

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

So we've established that baseline. You knew she was recording you and you know that recording is from your phone.

Yeah.

But you're saying you don't know what that recording is?

Nope. I go to work.

Well, let me tell you something.

Goodbye to my family, my 4 kids, my wife, my 4 kids. And hopefully not.

Well, listen, Penny, I'm gonna ask you to hold on for a second so I can bring your sister out here. So I'm gonna bring you right back. But everyone, please welcome Richard's wife Tracy to the show so we get her side of this story. Ooh, I can see you already emotional. What's making you emotional?

All this.

Yeah. Okay. Did you know your sister sent us the audio? You didn't know?

No.

Okay. And from your perspective hearing that audio, you believe that it is your husband having sex with someone else?

Yeah.

So why did you start tracking his phone and doing recordings in the first place? What prompted you to do that?

Just a woman's intuition. I just had a funny feeling that he was up to no good, that he was doing things that he shouldn't be doing.

Got it. Prior in your relationship, before you started doing the recordings, did you ever have any doubt that your husband could be cheating on you? Did you have any fears? Was there infidelity in the beginning of your relationship?

No, there wasn't infidelity, but back in, it's been a long time ago, somebody had called his work phone and then the very next day called my cell phone and I looked the number up on Facebook and it was a female. And I wrote the, sent a message. It wasn't rude, mean, or nothing. You know, just, "How do you know Richard? How did you meet him? Blah, blah this, blah, blah that." And the lady deleted her Facebook.

So back to this audio that we did all hear. When we heard it, we heard his voice. He said that is his voice. He admits that he says that what he heard after his voice was sex. But what did he tell you about the recording?

He don't know what it is. It could be the TV, but it ain't the TV when you're watching Mighty Joe Young or something.

No, it's— If I'd done any of this, I would've never came on this show to prove that I didn't do none of this. That none of this is me. I mean, I don't care.

Well, why? Because your phone that you have now wasn't the phone that you used back then.

And I brought that up. And the guy told me it didn't make a difference.

So now you are in a space now where you are hearing these things, you're feeling like he's doing something, and then all the other recordings, you never heard any sex, but this is the one that you heard sex from, correct?

Yeah, and there's a lot that I haven't even listened to because I don't even care anymore.

Got it. What is your sex life like?

There is none.

There's none?

There is no sex life. Okay. And how long has there not been a sex life?

Couple years.

Like 5 years?

2.

2 years?

2, at least 2.

2 years. 2, 3 years. But you're saying like even before then, the sex probably started going down, the intimacy?

Yeah.

Do y'all kiss, hold hands?

Nope.

Nope.

When was the last time y'all did that?

I couldn't tell you.

Yeah.

Okay then, do you both miss that?

Yeah, now you just feel like going through the motions of life, you know what I mean?

No.

You don't miss it? Why don't you miss it?

I just don't miss it.

Are you checked out of this relationship?

Probably.

How long do you think you've been checked out?

Since I heard all those recordings.

Got it, okay. Your wife is telling you she's checked outta your marriage. Mm-hmm. How do you feel about that?

It hurts. I mean, it's what you do, you know what I mean? Come to your show.

If you just tell me the truth.

Come to your show so you can prove that I'm right. You know what I mean?

And see if that helps.

Well, I mean, let me just let you know, unlocking phones is just a symptom of something that is deeper for me. I unlock phones just as the jumping off point. You should know that about me. Unlocking phones is the beginning point and that's when we have to dive in because I can unlock your phone and we can get information, but whether it's positive or negative, there's a bigger issue here, which is your wife has been checked out of your relationship for a long time.

Every little bit's gotta help, love.

Okay, the thing that gets me, 'cause I don't know any other recordings, and Richard, this is for you, is that you've honestly told me that you know she was recording your phone, you know about the app, you know this recording came from your phone, we've heard your voice. There's still a missing piece here. I'm not accusing you of cheating, but I do know for a fact just listening professionally and taking notes right now, that there is something missing. There is something going on. Whether you're having sex, whether you were around someone having sex, whether they're— Listen, I'm trying to, you have to be the one to fill in the blank for me. I'm trying to get there, but there is something.

That recording that I heard, that y'all heard, I'll be honest, there's, I don't care what anybody says, that did not come off my phone.

But that is your voice before.

Yeah, but what I'm saying is Penny added on to that is what I believe.

I sent it to her.

That is not the same recording. Nope. That is not any other recording you've ever let me listen to.

So you're saying when you first heard this recording at home, it didn't have the sex part attached to it?

There is some, or there's a recording, I don't know if it's that one or which one it is, but there is one I'm not gonna say that you hear sex like that. You do hear me breathing.

I'm gonna tell you right now, I am rarely really wrong on these things. And the same way you set your life on this, I'm gonna tell you I'd set my profession on this. I know there is something missing in this.

Thank you.

There is something missing. There is no way that you're telling me that yes, you heard another recording and that recording had a little bit of sex but didn't have that much sex.

No, I didn't say sex. I did not say sex.

Or noises.

It's noise, it's not sex. That was a damn, that was porno that we just heard.

That was? That's what I'm trying to figure out, what did we hear?

I mean, hell, if she played that one for me at home, I'd pack my shit and leave myself. Hell, I did do it.

Yeah.

But I know I ain't doing nothing.

You're adamant that there's nothing going on, you're saying you've never cheated.

Never, not one time, thought didn't even cross my mind.

Okay, so if he was to say to you right now, Yes, I cheated. What would that do for you?

I don't really know what it would do. I would probably leave, that's for sure.

Okay, okay. So now I know. So you've been checked out, there's no intimacy here anymore. And you just said that if he was to confess, you would leave. So it's either, since he's telling you no, that you'd either have to forgive him and move on, or, but you're not willing to do that, correct? You're not willing to believe what he says.

No, because I've heard this stuff.

So it sounds like you've already made your decision that you wanna leave, but you're just afraid to be honest about that. Because at the end of the day, I really don't need to lock this phone because at the end of the day, I can unlock this, but you already made your decision. I'm listening to what you're saying and I'm tracking your words. You're unhappy, there's no intimacy, You don't wanna have sex and you wouldn't believe him. You're not believing him when he's saying no. And you also said if he did confess, you would go.

For shit and giggles, unlock the phone.

So if he was to unlock the phone and it showed that he is not doing anything, would that change something?

I don't know, really.

Okay. That's why I'm saying this is just a piece of what would— I can give you these phone results and you can give 'em, but at the end of the day, you're unsure about your marriage. That's the real of this. You're unsure. This has nothing to do with your husband at this point. This has to do about you and what you want and what you deserve.

[APPLAUSE] [Speaker] And like everybody else deserves to be happy. You know? I'm a firm believer in that, man. Everybody deserves to be happy.

It's been 21 years, and do you remember the last time you were happy?

And I'll be honest, if I did something like that, I'd leave myself. I won't lie.

21 years and you can't remember the last time you were happy. Richard, are you happy right now?

Sometimes.

Do you wanna save this marriage?

Yeah. I love my wife. I love my family.

Do you love your husband?

Yeah.

I feel like maybe that love is gone. If I'm gonna be honest here and tell you, just the same way that I said I think there's something missing in between these audios that I'm not figuring out, I think there's something missing in the feelings you've had. And I think there's something been missing for a long time. I mean, I can just look at the distance between you two on the couch right now and tell you that y'all are on two different planets. In two different worlds. And I think that the missing piece for you is that you've been afraid for a long time to tell him, "I'm not happy, I want more." And an easy solution when we're afraid to express our own emotions is just to start finding stuff that we can say, "Well, look, now I have a reason to get out," instead of just saying, "I just wanted to be out." Are you ready to have a hard conversation with your husband? No. No, you're not. If you want my advice, it's time for you all to separate, figure out how to separate your lives from each other, and figure out how to start finding happiness outside of this relationship. You're both young. You're both young. You're not old. You're not old. So no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm looking at your ages. You're not old.

Working on it.

Yeah, you're working on it. You're not old. There's still a lot of life to live. And I think sometimes when we're in our 40s, in our early 50s, we start to think to ourselves, or we're in our 50s, we start to think to ourselves, well, this is it. There is another 40, 50 years for you to live, enjoy life, see the world, have somebody who's gonna wanna touch you, who's gonna wanna feel on you, who's gonna wanna kiss you softly. You deserve that. You deserve that. And y'all are not getting it. When y'all are ready to have that hard conversation, I'm here to support y'all, okay? Seriously. Good luck to both of you.

Thank you.