In this interview segment, Karamo speaks with a guest (Speaker A) about the deterioration of their marriage after their partner Nicola transitioned from female to male. The couple had been together for five years and married for two, initially agreeing that Nicola would not pursue bottom surgery. Over time, Speaker A describes Nicola becoming mean, controlling, and abusive, including frequent arguments, name‑calling (e.g., calling them “stupid” or a “bitch”) especially when drinking, and making hurtful claims about sleeping with other women. Nicola often reacts to conflicts by packing up and leaving to stay at his mother’s house, now dressing more formally for these visits and removing his wedding ring during arguments. The guest expresses confusion and hurt over these behaviors, questioning the meaning of the ring’s removal and the shift in Nicola’s demeanor, while Karamo offers empathy and probes for details. The conversation highlights themes of gender transition, changing relational dynamics, emotional and psychological abuse, and the symbolic erosion of marital commitment.
Chapters
My husband is a mean, controlling.
I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. How long have you two been together and married?
We've been together 5 years, married for 2.
I'm assuming the marriage is not what you expected?
No, it's not.
Okay, what's going on?
Nicola, when I first met Nicola, was very sweet, timid, kind. And now it's not like that anymore. He's now mean.
Controlling. So they're not the same person?
No.
When did you see the shift?
In the beginning of the relationship, I was told that, you know, he was going through a transition. I asked what that entailed and he told me that, you know, he didn't want any type of bottom surgery or anything. So I was open to something new as long as we had that understanding.
Okay.
Here now, Years later, every once in a while it's being thrown up and I'm like, where is this coming from?
Got it.
I thought we had understood.
So what you two agreed upon, he's now saying, well maybe this is not what I want.
Right.
So is that the root of all the arguments? Is that when the argument started?
No, not really. The arguments just start 'cause he's like, I'm just being picked at. Like just out of the blue, you just wanna argue.
So tell me about the name calling.
When he gets upset and drinking, he does call me stupid. I'm stupid. Every once in a while it may be I'm a bitch, you know? Yeah.
And so Nicola told you that he messed with other women?
Yes.
What? When?
In the beginning, he would get mad and he would just blurt out things such as, "That's why I'm sleeping with another bitch anyway," you know? Now he would come back and say, "You know I'm lying. You know I was just trying to make you upset." And in my heart, I believe that because it doesn't seem like he's moving like he's cheating, but just the fact that you could come out your mouth to hurt me and say it. And I don't put nothing past anyone.
Yeah. So what happened the week before Christmas?
The week before Christmas, to be honest with you, it was so minor that I don't even know what it was about. But we got into an argument and he once again packed up because he does like to pack up. And just leave.
It could be so little and he get upset, he packing up and goes to his mom's house. Mm-hmm.
Yes. So what makes you suspicious when he leaves the house?
So Nicola has always been very clean and take care of himself. But when he's going to his mom's house, he's normally throwing on some sweatpants or something real quick and going see mom real quick. Here lately, he now puts on some nice jeans and—
Oh, he dressing up?
"You know, a little shirt." Yeah, I'm like, "Oh, you looking real nice today going to see mom," you know?
And did he stop wearing his ring?
He does, he did. He'll take it off and, you know, when we get mad, he'll just take it off and leave it.
Does he ever leave it when he's going to his mom's house?
Yes, he does.
Okay.
And I'm starting to become, I ask about that, you know, he says, "Oh, it just, it reflects our marriage and we're not doing good, so." I don't think I should wear the ring. And I'm like, well, but we're still married. And when you leave out without a ring, you're leaving yourself available for someone to know that you're not married.
