Sabotage, Faked Illnesses & More: The 10 MOST TOXIC Family Moments Karamo Has Seen
In this episode of Karamo’s talk‑show, the host mediates three distinct family conflicts that illustrate extreme toxicity and trauma. First, a father and his teenage son confront a history of anger, neglect, and emotional distance; the father attempts to express love through a hug while urging the son to manage his anger, and the son reflects on his role as an informal therapist for friends and his desire to break the cycle of foster‑care trauma. Second, three sisters—Jasmine, Jenny (Jennifer), and Janay—air deep‑seated resentment stemming from childhood neglect, incarceration, and abuse; they exchange accusations of lying, threats, and emotional manipulation, while Karamo pushes them toward acknowledging each other’s truth and stopping the pattern of rebellion against love. Third, Debbie and her aunt confront a shocking birth‑certificate discrepancy that reveals a false paternal identity; Debbie discovers her legal father’s name (Shane) on her certificate despite being incarcerated at conception, leading to a DNA reveal that confirms Shane is not her father, sparking anger, accusations of forgery, and a plea for closure. Throughout, Karamo’s role is to facilitate communication, highlight the importance of owning one’s truth, and encourage healing, while the episode repeatedly underscores how unaddressed trauma fuels toxic family dynamics.
Chapters
You're not a dad. You're a liar. And you know what? I hope you drop dead. I do. Because I care nothing about you. I don't. I hate you with every ounce of my life. My father is with a woman who tried to stab me with a pair of scissors all over some weed. She was arrested that day, but before she got out, we were long gone. We were in Louisiana. We were gone for 6 months. I gave my dad a choice. You either pick her or me. And he chose that crazy bitch. That really broke my heart 'cause it messed up our relationship that we had before she came around. It made me feel some kind of way. Me and my dad's relationship has not been the same since. We barely talk. I want my dad to know I wasn't trying to mess up his relationship. I just really wanted him to open his eyes and realize that She's not good for him.
All right, Janaye joining us in the audience, but let's start with Rhonda to hear her side of the story. So Rhonda, thank you for being here so much.
Thank you.
I gotta ask you very fast because that's my first time hearing that.
Yeah.
Did you go after my husband's daughter? Your husband's sister, your husband's daughter. Absolutely not.
The scissors were already in my hand at the time. I was telling him to get the hell out my house.
Okay.
No, no, no, no. Stand up. You went to get the scissors. And if your daughter wasn't right there, you probably would've stabbed him. So you could stop lying. I promise you, if I wanted to cut you, you would've been cut. My police record proves it. So don't lie on me like that. And I actually loved you.
You loved?
Yeah.
You don't love her anymore?
I got love for her. But as a child, the way she performed, absolutely not. I just wanna know what I did to you. What did I do to you? When your mother didn't come through for you, I was there. Remember your 16th birthday party? 'Cause you was sitting around my house all sad and I went right out and bought you a birthday cake. Yeah, I remember. Uh-huh. What about the Florida trip? Coming, inviting you into my family, nurturing you, trying to be a mother to you. That's all I wanted to do. I know, but you was forced to. Was you supposed to smoke weed? Absolutely not. No, but I was already like that. You can't change something like that. That's neither here nor there. You came into my house. No teenager, no child is going to get high in my house and don't go to school. I was going to school. Karamo, we actually had to wake her up to go to school to catch the bus. I was going to school every day. You was not. What are you talking about? No, you wasn't. I was in Chicago. I wasn't in Vegas yet. I was online. I'm not talking about that. I'm telling you you were in my house in Las Vegas.
Right.
Exactly. And I was going to school every day. You did not get up for school. Yes, I was. You did not get up for school. All right. On several occasions we had to wait for her.
How did it get to this point? How did it get to this point? I'm confused.
That's what I'm trying to figure out.
From your point of view, I mean, you're standing here now, like I need to know, how did it get to this point? You're 19 years old?
Yeah.
Okay, how did it get to this point?
I don't know, I just don't like the way, like, I don't know, she too controlling and I don't like all that. Like she be forcing stuff too much. I require him to be a man.
Okay.
He don't know how to be a man basically. He don't know how to like, He be letting stuff escalate too far. He don't know how to speak up for himself.
This is your father?
Yes.
Your husband, he doesn't speak up, he doesn't do these things?
That's partly true. But he definitely don't stand up to her.
Okay.
See, she was his only woman in his life, so to speak. So everything was about her until First Lady come. So things had to be changed. I didn't care about that. I'm sorry, things just had to be changed. I require him to be a man. No, I did not allow him to buy you weed. "And no, I'm not gonna allow him to kiss your ass." He don't do that. "And bow down to you because you are a child." He don't do that. "And that's where the disconnect came in." You know what I'm saying? 'Cause I got 3 girls of my own and you know that. I'd never treat you no different from my kids, but you're gonna respect me. I never did not respect you. Oh, the devil is a liar. Just what you told me. You said if I wasn't to wear a dress at y'all wedding, that I wasn't gonna go. And then I turned around and went back and found— You have a problem with me being gay. I don't care, I'm gonna be my way. So I don't care about what you're talking about. She says that I have a problem with her being gay. That's not the case. Half of my family is homosexual. My problem with her is she tried to be something that she's not.
Okay, so you were arrested, she said.
Yeah.
Yes, what happened?
Police came, they called the police on me in my house. I didn't call the police. And my dad said you called the police, so which one was it? They called the police. Both of their names were on the police complaint. I went to jail for 33 hours.
And because of your father?
I just wanted them out my damn house.
Okay, and what happened when you wanted them outta your house because you were arguing with her father?
Yeah, he wholeheartedly disrespectful again. If she can't get up and go to school, what does she need to get high for? That's counterproductive. So he goes behind my back, takes money out and goes and buy her weed. Okay. We got a problem. That's not what happened. Because what I say go— That's not what happened. This is my house. That's not what happened. I'm the lady. That's not what happened. That's not what happened, no. We sat at the front of the room discussing. You argued and lied before. You had a problem, he bought me weed. This ain't have shit to do with school. I went to school every day.
What happened when you came back?
When I came back home?
Yeah.
After jail?
Yeah.
He was gone. He had took everything. He was gone.
Got it. And how long ago was this?
This was in 2022.
2022. Got it. Got it.
It really is.
Okay.
You like the great manipulator. You do whatever you can to get whatever you want and it's sad. It's sad when all you gotta do is just be you. That's what you do. Please stop mixing me with you. Please don't do that. I'm a grown-ass woman. I don't have to be nothing I'm not. You the one still growing. You gotta get to where I'm at. I'm already grown. You gotta get to where I'm at. I don't have to be grown. She thinks she grown. I don't think nothing. She thinks she grown.
No, I don't.
Y'all met at a bar. Like, you don't even know me, man. Again, what's your problem with me again? You don't know me. Because I'm the one that sent for you and brought you into my house. What's your problem with me again? She can't even tell you why she got a problem with me.
What is the problem?
Just because he's being a husband to his wife. That's the problem.
What is the problem with that?
That's not the problem. The problem is you do little slick stuff. You think somebody, no, I'm not slow. You're not finna manipulate me on this show. I'm not a goofy. We're not finna do that. That's what you're not finna do. Slick is you. Do all kind of slick stuff. Girl, you slick as a whale's back. You always doing this. You do this.
So you just feel like, you feel like there's disrespect in her language. That's what you feel.
Yes, and she's controlling. She think her opinion matter. That doesn't to me. Opinion does matter when it comes to my family. No too. Well, and that's why you where you at. You need some help. You do too. That's why you on the show. Then y'all call it, 'cause I didn't, they called me. I called them to unlock my phone. I don't know where you came from.
Like y'all don't know how hard it is on me being stuck between both of y'all. I love both of y'all.
I can't make a decision on you being my wife and you being my daughter.
I came here 'cause I want y'all to get along so we get back to this family thing.
Taking the trips, doing what we need to do as one. I agree. Not arguing and all this.
How you doing, Karamo?
How you doing?
How you doing, my brother? Nice to meet you. Take a seat for me, sir. Thank you for being here. Did you know your daughter felt like this? Somewhat I did. You know, I got married and I think my daughter just felt like she was losing me. And that's not the case though. You want her to come up here? Come on upstage.
Come on up here. That's his only child. That's why I don't understand why she would even think that he would allow me— why would you even think he would allow me to mistreat you? That's crazy.
I just look at things different, basically. First of all, there's too many Sagittarius in one house.
I agree. No, he's serious.
I'm a Sagittarius.
She's a Sagittarius.
My daughter's a Sagittarius. Hold on. Let me say this real quick because the thing is, The thing was, it's so interesting to me before you get into that, at the end of the day, y'all, you called this show to unlock a phone because there was issues with you two and cheating or feeling of cheating.
Yes.
But then this just exploded into something completely different.
But this contributes.
This contributes.
It contributes to the overall issue because while he's away, of course he wondering what I'm doing. I'm wondering what he doing. You know, it—
Got it. That's where we're at.
It's just crazy.
And is that true for you? That's true. Like when you're there dealing with your daughter, then you feel insecure about what she could be doing? Yeah, I'm not gonna say I don't have trust issues because I've been through some things in the past. And so you're ending up being in the middle of this.
I guess.
Do you feel like you're in the middle?
No.
Huh? Mm-mm. You don't? 'Cause I'm sure you feel like you're in the middle of it.
Yeah.
You feel like you're in the middle of all this drama.
Oh yeah, for sure.
But the reality is, is you are in the middle of all this. I guess. It's you, 'cause you're only 19. You're still a baby.
Yeah, still grown.
And you know that. Of course she has adult— I do, but I'm only 19.
And that's what I'm saying. By her being grown, she made herself an issue. She could've just been chilling in the peanut gallery like the rest of the kids.
No, she didn't make herself an issue.
Definitely.
She didn't. She didn't make herself an issue. Yeah.
By assuming that I control him. By thinking that I tell him what to do.
But that's not her issue.
Is dear in my heart. That's what she said.
Yeah, I know.
I still wanna get back. What is your problem with me? I don't have a problem. You control my daddy.
I'm gonna tell you something really quickly because there's a lot going on here. So there's a couple things that we need to address first of all. The thing of you saying like, I can't control. You are a very strong woman.
Indeed.
And you also have set certain boundaries and standards for your household.
Absolutely.
So within that, those things do allow someone who is not taking a hands-on approach to seem as if they're being controlled. And so that's not your issue. That's your issue. Because the fact of the matter is, is that when she sets her boundaries, as her husband, you're supposed to support those boundaries.
True.
Exactly. But because you're not supporting those boundaries, of course the child involved seems like, well, my dad is being controlled, which is then causing her to be in the middle of this situation. But then secondly, the fact of the matter is that you compare her to your daughters.
I'm just stating facts.
But those facts shouldn't have been stated. Hold on, hear me out. Hold on, because I'm getting to you next, because we gotta clear this up.
I'm sorry, I just believe in kids being kids.
I agree with you. I agree with you.
You know what I'm saying? I don't care.
But this is the thing. When you start comparing a child to something else and not getting support from the father, you become the villain. And that's the issue.
That's the issue. I'll take it.
But you shouldn't have to take it. You shouldn't have to take it. No, no, no, no, no. You shouldn't have to take it.
I've been taken, I've been beat my whole life.
But you shouldn't have to.
I know.
You shouldn't have to.
I'm a fighter.
But you shouldn't have to.
I'm a fighter.
But you shouldn't have to. And that's the reality. That's the reality. You shouldn't have to. And that's where it goes to you because as her husband, you should have been the one to step up and support her in these boundaries, support her so she doesn't have to be the fighter. What I'm telling them is I'm stuck in the middle. You're not. She's stuck in the middle. This all makes sense to me, but I will tell you again, the comparison to her other daughters, the comparison to her mother, those things she doesn't need an apology for because those things will always, always cause conflict in your relationship. So can you, for me, can you at least for this child apologize for that? Because that's gonna hurt us all.
I apologize, Janey, for comparing you. Do you accept my apology? No. I honestly told her, I said, well, you know, let my daughter come to you.
Yeah, Janay, what do you need? Because you're crying and one of the things that I hate a child to say over and over again is, I don't care. Because at your age you should care. So what do you need right now?
Support.
Support. And how do you need support? No one's ever asked that question, have they?
I know.
You deserve to think about what type of support you need so that these two individuals get on the same page and be there to support you. Because by the end of this, you're gonna know that and they're gonna be able to get on the same page to support you, all right? There is love there. I need you to hear that from somebody who don't know y'all.
I know she care more than him.
She care, you feel like she cares more than him? More than me?
It just be, yeah.
Hold on, did you, so that's a very clear, this outta your child's mouth. So she knows, she knows that the fight you've had and everything has happened. Thank you for sharing that last piece with me. So what I'm gonna ask you to do is I want you to step backstage and I want you to think about what type of support you need. Okay. Okay, thank you. All right, sit into a green room and enjoy. Now back to you. Y'all, 'cause now I see, I see, look, we've already started to heal some stuff. Look at y'all holding hands. Look at y'all holding hands. Look at y'all holding hands. So I'm gonna ask y'all, do we really need to unlock these phones?
This is really like, my best friend. Do you really think they're cheating?
Do you really think they're cheating? I don't. You don't think they're cheating?
I don't. I'm a very secure woman. Like I said, you can take them, you can have them.
Do you think they're cheating? You know what? I don't know.
I've been through some things.
So then you know what? So I asked y'all the question, do we need to unlock the phones? You said no.
No.
But your answer lets me know we still need to unlock the phone.
Oh man.
Ramon, we unlocked your phone. So here we go. Rhonda, you wanna know if Ramon has sent DMs to any females on his two Facebook accounts. Ramon says he has not. My Unlock the Phone investigator searched your DMs and found That Ramon is telling the truth. Ah. Huh? Rhonda, you wanna know if Ramon has made any calls to a specific female on his phone. Ramon says he has not.
Who was that?
My unlock the phone investigator searched his calls and found that he is telling the truth.
Don't worry about it.
Rhonda, you wanna know if Ramon has sent any explicit photos to any females. Karamo says he has not. My Unlock the Phone investigators searched his photos, both in his phone and deleted, and found that he is telling the truth.
So what you sweating for? I ain't sweating. You over here sweating. I got lotion on my hands. Good job.
I got lotion on my hands, baby.
Good job. Good job. It can be nerve-wracking.
I can get it because you might think, but we searched. You haven't done anything.
I'm really tripping. Y'all can get deleted messages.
Oh, we get the deleted as well. Pictures too, huh? Oh, we get deleted photos as well. Technology. Uh-huh. All right, so—
My turn.
Rhonda, we unlocked your phone. Get to this.
All right.
Ramon, you want to know if Rhonda has any explicit photos on her phone. Rhonda says she does not. My Unlock the Phone investigator searched her photos and found— that Rhonda is telling the truth. Ramon, you want to know if Rhonda has sent DMs to any men on Instagram or Facebook. Rhonda says she has not. My Unlock the Phone investigator searched her DMs and found that Rhonda is telling the truth. Ramon, you want to know if Rhonda has sent text messages Did you text to any men on specific dates from June to August of this year? Rhonda says she has not. My Unlock the Phone investigator searched her texts and found that Rhonda's telling the truth.
Oh, finally.
She's smart, thanks. What happened here is that there has just been an issue with your co-parenting and the lack of support your wife that has caused these fights and insecurities. And what we've established here now is that there's trust and love here, but it's time for you all to get on the same page. You know now there's no infidelity. You know now that this young girl does love you. There is respect in her for you. She said it. Like, you got to hear it. I'm glad you did.
Me too.
Because you know now, but now it's time for you to get on the same page.
Backstage.
I sent your daughter backstage and I said, how do you need support? When she tells you how she needs support, you're gonna turn to each other and look at each other and agree. And if you don't agree with how she needs support, then you say, we're gonna talk about it and y'all are going to then talk about it and come back and be on the same page. Because now once your house is united, there'll be no more of this division. I wish y'all the best of luck. I actually really do think that y'all have gotten something that's gonna give y'all the first step to be a family together. Do you feel the same?
Yes.
Good. Do you feel the same?
I do.
I wish y'all the best of luck. Really, I do. Thank you.
I really do. I really do.
All right, friends, stay with us. We'll be right back with more.
I love you too. Always have. I just got you. So you good. Growing up, I had to do everything to raise Tamika. I made sure she got to school, had food, had money. Basically everything a mom would do. But to keep in mind, Tamika's not my child. She's my little sister. And I made sure she was always okay because my mom was always Yelling, discombobulated, and whooping us all the time. All the time. The abuse was terrible. When I say terrible, I'm not just saying like scare tactic. Makes you lose your character. It's different when it's from your mom. I played the tough role. I go in mommy mode quick. It's people that would have died and went through what I went through. By the grace of God, I'm here. Out of my anger, I turned it into power. That was my only option. I healed myself. My tears are not tears of sadness. They are tears of joy. They are relief tears. And it's part of my process of healing. Now today, me and Tamika, we are very much divided from my mom. And I pray that that will change. I cried so much, I ain't even got no tears. What I really like today is my mom. To take accountability and just realize what she did to us.
What type of things would your mom punish you for?
Everything. Mm-hmm.
Everything. Every single thing. You could do no right as a child.
If it was, it was just like, just to nudge it off.
It was probably just like, "Oh, okay." Yeah.
Or something like that.
Got it. When did you and your sister first report your mom for abuse and what happened?
I did it.
You did it?
I did it.
Uh-huh. I went and made up a lie to the DHR and told 'em to come get me and my sister. How old were you at that time?
I was like 13.
13 years old and you're calling Child Protective Services to come and protect you.
I was, I used to get in trouble just to get away.
Just to get away? Yeah. Wow. Why do you say your mom is jealous of you? Your bond with Tamika?
Because people don't like when you put your own force to something that they can't tear down. And that bond that me and my sister got is not for nobody to come against. We fight the world, we don't fight each other.
Good job. Yeah. So what's your relationship like today with your mom? I don't have a relationship.
I'm not gonna sit here and be fake 'cause I'm not a fake person. And I've tried and I've tried and I've tried. And yeah, sometimes I do wanna give up, but I don't. I don't give up 'cause I know who I am. I know where I've been. I don't know where I'm heading. I'm better than what I was and I got faith in God. [Speaker:KARAMO] Amen, amen, amen, amen.
I'll tell you this, of course I'm always gonna be here to help you. Help you and try to support you. But I do believe in boundaries and I do believe that sometimes people get to their breaking point. Oh, yes. And I do believe that sometimes it's healthier to walk away than to stay in something. All right everyone, let's meet Shaquita's mom, Connie. Please welcome Connie to the show. Is it true that she raised her younger sister?
How can you raise someone when something that you did not do, you can't respond to? He asked me a question. But you did not raise her, so it's like— I did raise you. What does raising did? Give me a definition of raising. I raised you. I never had to put a roof over your head. I gave you food. You never was without. You never didn't have food. It wasn't because of you though. It wasn't because of you. You didn't have a value growing up. You didn't want to listen. You still don't wanna listen. I'm not gonna listen to nobody that got me in harm's way. That can't think for theirself. And right now you grown and how you act out in public. It doesn't matter if you're grown or not. You have to respect every grown person, man. You gotta respect me too.
You wanna go on that mother level?
But you gotta understand that you gotta respect your children. You gotta respect their mind. You gotta listen to them. Don't come out here being something that you're not, 'cause it's not gonna go well with me. He asked you a question, how you bein', you can't tell him how you gonna be a mom. And you was never ever a mom. That's what mamas play their role in. They make sure the house is okay. They don't sit in the room and cry and let everything be cut off in your house. Ask Tamika. And you know what? I have enough of this.
What do you say about Shakita talk about being abused by you? Is that true?
What abuse did she say? That she was abused by me? She said that. How do you be abused? You be abused for being disciplined to your kids? You don't beat them. You have never been in the system and you have no bruises. Quita is a liar. She likes to lie. She can lie real good.
But are you saying she's lying about everything? That you didn't?
Yes, I raised my kids. I raised them to the best of my ability. I love my daughters. They never suffered for anything, even though I went through hard times. But who's the angriest? Anger shows what's in you and how you are, because you don't want to let go. Forgive. You're grown, grow up. You never raised anybody.
So you think that the reason she's angry is because she can't forgive you?
She can't forgive. Like I said, I never said I was perfect. I am not perfect. I went through things, but there were never abuse.
Do you think you were too hard on your daughters when they were growing up?
No.
No.
No, not because of the rebellions and the things that she did. And Meka was the underdog. She was my youngest. She would always follow her.
Mm. Did you treat your daughters the same from your opinion?
No, they are different. No, she don't, she don't, she don't. What is the same? Tamika is better than me, always been better than me. I'm gonna get the worst whooping. And guess what? When I was little, guess what I would tell her? You can whoop me and beat me as long as I can go back outside. Am I lying? I would take the whoopings and the beatings as long as I can go back outside and be free. She gonna say I'm lying 'cause she don't want y'all to know what I told y'all. 'Cause you guys are strangers to her, but you guys will get what? You can entertain a stranger, entertain an angel. So I'm gonna be real with you guys.
So you do not think you treated her differently? Do you think you gave her more whoopings?
Ask my sister. I bet she ain't gonna lie about me. No, I didn't give her more whoopings. You're right, 'cause there was beatings. I never beat you. My child never was abused. Hold up, hold up, let's get to you. Hold up, hold up, let's, let's, let's be nice. When you say something, it's good to prove a point, okay? If you didn't beat me, she hit me in the mouth with an iron pipe, okay? Let's keep it real. You hit me? Oh, so you didn't give me these stitches and I called the police? That is not an iron pipe. That was an iron pipe. You see, admit what you did. Yes, you can be mad at me. I went to jail. For a proper cause, 'cause you put your hands on me for nothing. What means right?
Don't be—
Because of her mouth. I did. My mouth came from you. Stop calling me out an iron pipe.
What was it?
I can't remember exactly what it was. How can I not remember what you did to me, how you did it to me? I did do her mouth, but I was angry. I've overcame all of that. I've grown, I've learned, and I love. And I love her.
Could it have been something that was in the house? Could it have been—
It was the iron pipe, baby.
Iron pipe?
It was the iron pipe, baby. I'm telling you, I don't make up stuff.
I believe you.
It was the iron pipe. And she told me what she did. She said, I brought you in and I'll take you out. Now you won't take me out of my bathroom. Yes, I did say it. I said it. You won't take me out of my bathroom. I brought you in and I— It was her mouth because of the rebellion. Rebellion don't make you wrong, but I never abused you. Yes, I whooped your butt. What do you call it? Because you was rebellious. You are very rebellious.
So how old were you when you went to jail for hitting her?
I don't remember, maybe in my 50s.
And how old was she?
13.
She was 13?
Yeah, maybe. 13, I remember everything, I write everything down. She was 13? Yes.
So at 13 years old, you hit her, you don't remember with what, but it was severe enough. Yes, I'm not questioning you, I'm saying for her.
When I went to jail.
That you went to jail because the police thought it was bad enough.
When I went to jail at the time, it was called out for someone else and at that time, If I hit her at the time, her mouth had already healed. And when this situation was going on— No, I thought you was nobody else. I'm the same one that I called out for you, 'cause you formed the fight. What's called it, with me? Then she say, "Police, I'm gonna kill you." Oh, we ain't talking about you had your man fighting us, we had to help you fight. That's a whole different ballgame. Now we can go to another episode if you want to now, 'cause we done helped you fight everybody all our life. That's why we so strong and we ain't gonna give up.
Well, listen.
You wanna holler about growing up, but you have never, you have never ever just said, "Well, I'm sorry for what I did. I'm sorry for this." And you still wanna keep coming back I'm here now to say that I'm sorry. I am not a perfect parent. Baby, I ain't never said you were. I went through stuff that maybe I can't explain, but I'm here to say that don't make it right, but forgive me 'cause I'm only a human being and I love you and I love Mika. Can we grow from here? Can we do better? Can we love each other? I love you regardless of what. And I love you too. I love you regardless of what.
I think it's time to meet Chiquita's younger sister, Tamika. Please everyone, welcome Tamika to the show.
I hate to come back to the lounge.
How you doing? I gotta ask you, what was your childhood like? Was it abusive?
Abusive? I'm not gonna say it was abusive, but it was, it was, uh, it was overrated.
She didn't get beat like I beat. Did your sister get different treatment from you?
Yeah, she did.
She did. In what ways, from your opinion?
Oh, we was rebellious as kids too, so I ain't gonna say everything just was on my mom because it was on all of us, like, but we did get Access to whoopings and for sometimes I thought that it was, I felt like it wasn't right 'cause sometimes we didn't even know what we was getting whoopings for.
So she's saying that they would get beat and they didn't know why.
Okay, for instance, if I told you, you should be in that house at a certain time when that light comes on, you was about 15 and she was about 13 at that time, matter how you felt about it, yes, I will come down the street, I wouldn't beat you, but she would run on and take hers and go on in the house. No, she wouldn't take hers. She'll run and hide. She'll run in front of and hide. She'll take hers and go on. As long as I get my whooping and go outside, I'm good. It wasn't a beating. It was a lick. Like, like, it was out of respect. It's like everybody just got anger built up in them.
I don't have anger.
It's like everybody just got so much anger built up in them. I don't got no anger. I don't got no anger. You got anger at me. Yeah. I do.
I understand. Do you feel like you caught in the middle?
Yeah, all the time.
Yeah. And you're a mom now. Do you think this has made you see your mom different today?
Yeah, like a lot of approaches that my mom tried with us, I don't use those approaches on my kids.
Oh, so you don't?
No. I would never. I would never.
What would you wanna see get fixed in your family?
For us to have better understanding, like talk and listen to each other. Like everybody just don't have to be so opinionated all the time. It's like I'm always caught in the middle. And yes, my mom says sorry a lot, but it's like saying sorry don't even matter sometimes when you go back and do the same thing constantly over and over and over again.
Do you feel like you do the same things over again that you've said sorry for?
No.
Do you think you can respect your daughters?
Yes, I can respect them and I want the same thing.
Respect and boundaries. Uh-huh. Yeah.
But you know, in order to get something, you have to give it too. But don't nobody cross your boundaries until you cross the boundaries though. You cross my boundaries when you talk to me any kind of way. You're getting in me and my sister's business. You cross my boundaries when you criticize me. You're jealous. You're jealous. No, I ain't jealous. I love both of you. There's no jealousy in my life. See, that's what it is. Nobody can't talk to you. I'm just, I'm just feel like talking about it.
Is it your jealousy?
You're never gonna admit when you wrong. I feel like I've been speaking so much as a parent, I feel like if I was speaking, that's your feelings though. That's your feelings. You done had us just sitting there looking dumb and acting like you don't know what the question is. Put the question on you. Give a camera for them. Give a camera for them. I don't wanna say, God. No, I love Shaquita. Fake. I love Shaquita. Fake, Karamo. Why would I not love my daughter? Well, when you show me that you love me, I accept it. But by you saying and being two-faced, I'm out.
Do you think you show her that you love her? No.
She say I don't show her love. I'm telling you the truth. I know you don't. Tell me what is love. I get attacked first. She need to tell me what is love. How can I tell you something you ain't never dated? Nobody can't tell each other nothing 'cause nobody never listen. I don't know how y'all need to start buying this stuff. Y'all don't never listen. You gotta tell me. I'm over all this.
She doesn't know what love feels.
She don't congratulate us. She don't never say I'm proud of you. Am I lying, Tamika? She never say I'm proud of you, Tamika, for raising them 5 kids by yourself. Why would I? The world gonna know about it. No, universe gonna know about it. But that stranger, he gonna never get— Man, I don't deal with fake people. I'm tired of fake people. And the way I met, I could've took somebody's head off. And not mine. I ain't gotta take her head off. Because guess what? You know how you don't take people's heads off? You do this right here. You put a dab in it and you stay. I'm gone. I ain't coming back on no more. I admit that. I ain't coming back on no more.
She's angry.
Okay, she been angry for a long, long time.
But do you understand why she's angry? Because I can hear, I'm gonna say this first. I understand from what I just heard and I've been taking notes. The notes and without the notes, I can only gather what your life has been through. And I understand, I can understand probably the way you were raised, that you were raised where it was, there was like strictness, there was rules, you got beat, you got told certain things. Am I wrong? Please tell me.
I did not get beat, I did not get abused. I got disciplined.
Okay, so.
I had a loving father, but he was abusive. But I don't hold what my father or my mother did against me because like I say, there's no perfect parents in this world.
Yeah. So what I was just saying—
And we all gonna feel some way whether it's right or wrong.
What I'm saying to you is you just did confirm what I was saying. Even though you're not holding against your father, your father hit you, he abused you, he hurt you.
I'm not angry.
Okay.
And I'm not bitter.
I didn't say that. If you can show your daughter's patience in saying like, I'm gonna be on your time. I'm not gonna fight. The sorry right now is not really what she needs. She needs patience. She needs to know that you're willing to let her process and not to negate anything that she's had. Could you make a commitment that if your daughter says, "I felt like I was abused," instead of saying, "You weren't abused," you say, "Okay, I hear you." Yes. If you stop defending what your daughter says and just listen, so that she can build that trust with you, y'all will have a relationship. What you thinking about?
I agree.
Okay. Well, I wish you the best of luck. I really do. All right everyone, thank you for being with us. Come back next time, friends, so we can keep talking and we can keep growing. I love you all. Why is your family so shattered?
It all started in 2019 when I, Dropped out of college. I got a really, really bad, I don't know if it's called GPA anymore, but it was a 0.75. So I wasn't doing anything. I wasn't focused on school at all. And it was for a multitude of reasons. One being boy, you know, one being just motivations lost in certain things. So when I came back in December, 'cause it was a semester when they told me that I, could not come back and I was not fit.
Yes.
They said, my parents said, well, what's the reason? Well, what's the issues and what's going on? And at that time they realized that I just started partaking in marijuana. Okay. So they solely focused it on, yeah, it's because she's doing marijuana. That's why she's not—
Why are you doing that? She's a very smart girl. Okay, got it.
She got accepted to 13 colleges, so it can't be, you know, she's dumb. It has to be something influencing her mind.
Got it.
You know, so they just put it to that.
Got it. So why are you so upset with your family?
Because of the way they treated me during, I guess, my trials. They should have known the type of daughter that I was from the years that they raised me, which is a stand-up girl that could turn into a stand-up woman.
Yeah. So you want them to be a little bit more supportive and think about what could be other reasons than just focusing on one, which is weed. How much weed do you think you smoke?
I smoke every day.
Okay.
I smoke every day.
Okay. What's your relationship like with your mom?
The relationship was everything that I wanted it to be when it was great. But especially now since my mom has her own trauma, I guess, with weed, like it's hard for us to even be in the same vicinity as far as this clothes, 'cause let's say I'll have a lasting, like a smell over me, it will be nauseating to her. So most of the time when we are together, there's always an overlying conscience of like, am I bothering her? Am I affecting her? It doesn't make me feel good.
Yeah. Makes you feel like constantly like you're not enough.
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Like you had to walk on eggshells. Yeah.
And compared to the person I was and the child I was growing up, why couldn't you guys believe in me, you know? Mm-hmm.
Tell me about the day, 'cause I read this, that they dragged you out by your feet.
It was a matter that didn't even have to do with weed. It was apparently I was smart at the mouth to my father at a moment that he wasn't feeling it or he thought that I went against him or against what he said. And he kind of was just in my face saying, "Stop, stop," as I continued to talk. And I'm here like, "When am I gonna be heard?" In my mind I'm saying that. So I'm just like continuing to talk. And when I continue to talk, he said, "Okay." And then he grabbed the suitcase from downstairs to bring it upstairs and say, and said, "You're leaving, you're going to another place, whatever the case may be, you can't be here." I said, "I'm not going anywhere." And me thinking that I can go downstairs to my mom and my sister and say, "Hey, this is what he's trying to do to me off of nothing, off of him feeling like I'm being smart when really I'm just being me, I'm trying to be heard." I got looked at as if I was a ghost.
And then how did you get on your back for them to drag you on your feet?
Because my dad, put his hands on me to put me out of the house.
Got it. And you fell back.
And I was fighting him. Yeah. 'Cause I'm not, you know, I was pushing away, trying to get away from him. Not, you know, punching, but getting away from him.
Yeah.
And you know, he's pulling me in, pulling me in. And that's when it got to the point where I tried to like kick him and stuff like that because he's grabbing me and I fell to the floor. That's when my sister and my dad picked me up from off the floor. Like, you know, like I was a felon or something intruding into, to their house. I'm, you know, in the backyard. My sister is pushing her hand into my throat to push me back down the stairs.
Wow. All right, well, I want everyone to take a look at something your sister Danielle has to say.
My sister Ariel and I used to be close, but then she started blaming me for all of her failures and mistakes. I haven't done anything wrong. The truth is Ariel takes issues with me because she's jealous. I'm going places in my life. I have a good job, a good education, and I get along with people, and she's stuck in the same place. She has so much anger. She starts arguments and even threatens to fight me. What she needs to understand is that you can't blame me for your bad choices, bad behavior, and getting high all day. I'm her older sister. I deserve more respect, not this hateful attitude. Ariel, you need to You need to stop this jealous, bitchy attitude and just grow up.
How's it feel to hear what your sister had to say?
What would I be jealous of?
Well, I think it's time we meet your sister Danielle and hear her side of the story. So everyone please welcome Danielle to the show. Hi Danielle, you look beautiful as well. May I give you a hug?
Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you.
Jealous of what? What that gave? Girl, when I said, first of all, let's tell the truth and let's shame the devil, amen? Let's talk about college, right? She failed outta school. When she failed outta school. And then? And you, mind you, when you was at college, I called you every single night and you didn't tell me not once that she wasn't going to school. After she got kicked outta school, I wrote the appeal for her to go back to school. I did that by myself. Then they didn't accept the appeal. So what did I do? I applied for her to go to community college afterwards. I wrote that application. And then you talking about, oh, everything happened, you got kicked outta the house for no reason. Ariel, you are so disrespectful and you are so violent. I hated weed, right? And I use the word hated because I was educated by even Ariel. By mainly me. And Danielle, by say even Ariel, Danielle, and her friends and others has explained to me that, Mom, you cannot blame the substance for what happened to Ariel. Let me tell you something. Ariel is one of the most, I can't explain, talented, brilliant, beautiful minds out there. That's why I don't got time to be playing with somebody be capping in my face. I'm telling you, right?
So then what is the real reason then that you failed class if you're beautiful? What was the real reason that—
Yeah, what was the real reason that you failed class? What was the real reason? I was so worried about a man and what was going on with that man. But you didn't say that at that time. Every single new day, it was a new episode of my— I sure did, but you know what everyone else heard? The smoke. Nobody heard nothing at that time. Everyone else heard the smoke in the air. At that time, I was the only one that knew you smoked weed, Ariel. I didn't tell nobody nothing. The only time they found out that you smoked weed, Ariel, was because you were smoking in the house. And you know you're not supposed to be doing that. I was smoking a weed pen in the house. No. And that doesn't indicate— So she was smoking in the house, a weed pen. All of a sudden, Karamo, I don't know what happened, they turn into like somebody else, right? And all of a sudden their interest in their education fall and they just wanna chill and relax. They be easy. But then, but listen though. And so because of that, because of that, I didn't wanna see that for Ariel. So when I heard that Ariel was smoking, of course I was like, Wait, what's going on? It started morning, she can't eat. Noon, she can't eat until she smoke. Dinner, no food. And if she doesn't smoke, she's picking fights with everybody. And when she doesn't smoke, she is a volcano. I'm telling you, I'm so— And that was when? Years ago when I still was feeling all the pain and the hurt from me being deserted? Or now? Deserted. Because now, deserted. When? Deserted. When? Because at the end of the day, when I was in their hallway— I didn't think we deserted Ariel. Ariel left. Ariel had a choice, right? I had all the tomatoes.
Remember?
Yes. Because it was their house. Yes. I'm so confused. Yes, yes. But I'm your daughter and I'm your kid. Wait, wait, wait. Stop smoking and take care of your schoolwork. But that's the— Wait a second. We love talking about, oh yeah, that's my house and that's my house. Stop smoking. Where else am I gonna go if I came from y'all?
My producers told me that even though you don't like that she smokes weed, when you're in Jamaica with her, you bought her weed.
No, I didn't buy her, I give her the money to purchase good, I was afraid Ari was gonna get weed that was gonna kill her. I'm gonna put down some money so she could get the good Jamaican weed where she can just chill, right? Even though I don't like it. Do you hear me? Right, I was willing. To compromise my principles so that Ariel is happy. I'm telling you, Karamo, the last day the weed was done, perhaps, or the week— Oh, they about to get me tight. Wait a second. Because what you're gonna do again is the same thing that I told you is what pisses me off and what makes me wanna go off and get disrespectful. Stop tying my emotions to marijuana. Stop tying my emotions to weed. I'm not doing that. Stop tying me to stuff that has nothing to do with how I feel. How do I feel about how y'all done me? What did we do? Girl, you was not there for me, girl. Are you kidding me? Time out. When she got kicked out, I was in college. I had no money. I don't have money. I can't move out and provide a home for her. I don't have nothing. I'm still living in the same house with our parents. Girl, everybody actually know that, girl. I'm tired of being in the middle of this.
Ariel, so when you called this show, what did you hope will happen today?
I would hope that I would get different treatment. And like I said, beautiful show, but if that was real life behind closed doors where I actually feel that love, 'cause if you showing me you doing that behind closed doors, how come when I open the damn door, I'm not seeing it? But we not talking about the disrespect behind doors.
I'm gonna tell y'all this, there's something that kept coming up and every single one of y'all said it in different ways that this is not you anymore, Ariel. And then I also kept hearing about what's been going on. So this is not about getting kicked out. There's some other trauma that has happened here that you don't feel supported by. And I'm not asking you to express it, but I'm almost positive there's something else because that is what has led you to feel as if I need to retreat from the person that I was before.
I was sexually assaulted when I was homeless, bro.
Okay, okay.
And when I first told 'em, it was like they ain't believe me. Not true, not true. Who didn't believe you? Listen. Who didn't believe you? That's not true. Who didn't believe you? It's not true. You saying I didn't believe you? No, Karamo. Let me talk. Let me talk.
Let me talk.
We offered Ariel police, rape kit, going to the hospital. Ariel refused. I don't even wanna sit there and have to look at that man's face and what he done to me. All I wanted was to be consoling and sold and crated around where my family lies.
I get it, I get it.
And what I got was lots of confusion. I did, I believe you, I believe you. See, it wasn't true. She didn't even come home.
I believe you did.
I was looking, she didn't even come home and she told me on the phone. I said, we gotta get on this. I understand. When she came home, I cuddled her. I understand. Because it happened in January and it was March.
I understand what's going on. There's a pressure of this is who I've been my entire life. And I'm exhausted. And I've been in that position where you are feeling like I have to achieve, I have to achieve. And then you get to a place where it's like, I'm exhausted. And whether or not you express it or not, I'm sure you were exhausted. For any young woman to get invited to 13 schools, accepted at 13 schools, you're a smart student. I just heard you say it. But then you compound that with now some other type of trauma. Now this is somebody who's saying, I don't need solutions, I need support. And not saying—
therapy.
I get it, I get it.
Offer to pay for therapy. Not only that, I want to go to therapy. I sent her resources to go to therapy. I don't need no solution with no damn therapist. I need a solution with you. I'm not talking at them because at the end of the day, I get therapists for better coping mechanisms to deal with her.
I understand that you all are trying to be there. Y'all are hurting as well. You're trying to figure out— sometimes people are not able to receive the support that we think that they need in that moment because they're still trying to process and deal with their head. And a lot of this anger, and I'm seeing how your body is shaking, I understand. There's angry, there's anger.
You ain't been through what the hell I've been through. And you got the nerve to really sit there and be like, oh yeah, I exuded all my effort for you. I exuded da da da da da. But I don't see you do half of the stuff you do for other people for me. Get outta here, bro. Like, get outta here with that, bro.
Listen, this makes sense of why— I'm not gonna believe that. This makes sense. Here, let me give you a tissue too. This makes sense of why in Jamaica y'all had a conversation about sisters as boundaries and you said, "I'm doing boundaries." And she said, "What the hell is there boundaries?" Because she's looking for you to show up in a way right now that in your mind you're like, "I'm showing up, I'm doing it." No, I literally am.
It's not in my mind.
I know, I know.
So I asked her what she wants from me. She can't even tell me. I'm gonna tell you again. What I wanted from you is at the end of the day, right now, you could say, I would've moved differently back then. And I apologize countless times. I've been doing this for 5 years and I've apologized countless times.
I know there's apologies you don't do for me. The one thing she needed is the one thing you refused to giving her.
Which is what?
She said, I need you just to say back then you would've did things differently.
Personally, I have said that to Ariel several times.
You felt that? So that's why you have more of a connection.
Wait, wait, wait.
That's why you're proud of your mom for what happened.
Wait a second, wait a second. I've said that to her several times. I would've done stuff differently. Like for example, I would've done stuff differently because I was in college fighting for myself. And what did I say to you, Mom? Didn't I say to you that I understand, but it's not the apology that I need from you? Right, right. And when I do mention that stuff that happens in the past, it's not because I'm trying to throw it in your face and throw, I'm just trying to let you know that I am, because of what's happening right now, feeling back in that space.
I think one solution, the first step, is that weed has to be out the conversation. I think we can all identify that weed is not the issue here. It's not the issue at all. So weed can be out the conversation. What this is, is that she's had a traumatic moment in her life, and in spaces of where she feels like she gets back in that space, it's gonna cause anger. It takes sometimes a lot of, It takes years sometimes. If y'all really love her, it's gonna have to practice.
If.
Not, not, not, not if.
I love her.
I know you know.
Deeply.
I know you do. I know you do. And I apologize for saying the word if. What I want you to know is that right now, patience is going to be the time to heal. I'm trying to make sure you know I see you and see what you've done. And I understand the frustration you have being stuck in the middle. But right now there's a lot of pain here. That I think is going past even now. You hear it coming out. I think there's a lot of conversation that has to be happening around how y'all both feel about the relationship y'all have had from even before this. Thank you for being honest and open and thank you. I'm sorry that y'all are in this difficult space. Mom, you got two amazing young women and I know they can get back there because they have a strong mother right here with them. And I really do wish y'all the best of luck.
Thanks for your time.
So tell me what happened between you and your mom last summer? I was— I heard it got physical fight?
Yes, she attempted to put me out. I don't remember why, but we got into it. She's like pulling on my leg, literally humiliating, trying to get me out of her house. I wouldn't leave though, but that still hurt me. I never got my apology for that.
Got it. So do you feel like she still owes you this apology?
Absolutely.
Okay, and why do you feel that way?
'Cause she's my mother. You put your hands on me.
Okay, I can't believe I'm reading this. Your sister threatened to kill you?
Absolutely.
Okay, what happened?
I was pregnant at the time. I came home, I wanted my cornbread. Wasn't there. She was like, "I don't eat cornbread." It came to a big argument. Something was said along the lines of, "I'll kill you." And that's basically all I remember. When me and Valena fight, it's not—
It's never easy.
It's not tiny. When we fight, we fight to kill.
Okay, wow.
I think she hates me for even being alive.
So you think that Velena made stuff up about you about your childhood, right?
Things that she says I did not experience at all.
Okay.
I never witnessed my mom doing the things that she says happened. She said something about extension cords and all that. That never happened.
Never happened for you?
No, and I never witnessed that happen.
Okay.
And that's just what it is. I didn't experience it 'cause here we go, you're the youngest, you're the baby, blah, blah, blah. I was there. Me and Valena grew up like basically twins. We're best friends. So how you gonna tell me I wasn't there? When did this happen?
So how does your family feel about your wife, Shantaé?
They think that she controls me.
Do you think Shantaé is controlling?
Yes, I do think she's controlling, but I also know that she's changing and she's gonna at least try. She's not for the weak.
It's very interesting language. She's not for the weak.
She is not.
Barbara's wife Shante is in the audience. Shante, you here? Hey, how you doing? Come on, stand up for me. So Shante, describe your relationship with your wife's family.
We don't have a relationship.
And why not?
They're just too toxic.
So what do you think is the root issue with this family?
The drinking, them on pills. So if they stop all that, I feel like they could finally see each other and grow.
Do you feel like your sister and your mother drink and do pills as your wife said?
We all have.
You all have?
Me as well, I'm not gonna lie.
Yeah.
I stopped 'cause I was ready to stop.
Okay.
How long have you stopped for? Do I drink wine?
Congratulations, by the way.
Yes. Thank you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How long have you stopped for?
About 7 years.
So Shante, do you feel like they're trying to drag her back into this life?
I feel like they don't want her to grow.
At all.
They don't like me because of what she's become.
Okay. I wanna please welcome Barbara's sister, Valena, to the show. Valena, come on up for me. How you doing? Nice to meet you. Lemme give you a hug. Yes, of course. What's going on? You're emotional. I see it already. What's happening?
To hear that she was hurt because of what happened about the threat. I didn't threaten her like that. I said, "If you put hands on me, I'm gonna lay hands." You know what I'm saying? Because it was a big argument. They're chasing me. Her and my mother's chasing me. "Get her, Barbara. Hit her, Barbara." And I'm like, "No, I'm not." So I'm trying to leave. Next thing you know, I go home. I get a knock on the door. I'm arrested for assault and harassment.
Wow, okay. And when did this happen? How long ago was this?
It was like 2005 or 2006.
But the pain of that is still lingering with you all.
It's crazy because we never really fought when we was little. We get mad the next day, "Hey, you left your shirt over here, come get it." "Okay, I'm gonna come get it, bitch." You know, that's how it is. We cool. But I can never hate my sister. But you're okay with not talking to me for a year and I have to go this far though? All you gotta do is call me. You know how I am, Barbara. Yeah, and you're also aggressive and you get upset.
I'm not aggressive.
If I talk to you about something, you immediately go into defense like I'm coming for you. I'm never gonna come for you 'cause I'm always gonna be behind you. I got your back. So that's not fair to me. Okay, well, when you say something, it's too late. You held it in too long. I'm already defensive because the way you coming out here, "Hey, you do this, you do this." I'm like, why? You don't have to get like that. But it builds up from here. From here to here to here. And when every time we laugh it off and pretend like it didn't happen, I'm still broken. Okay, well talk to me, you know what I'm saying? Like we've had talks.
Hold on, I wanna go back. So Valena, you didn't go to your sister's wedding. Why?
No.
Why?
Honestly, I didn't even know when it was. Everybody knew when it was. You didn't go. You didn't wanna go because you don't like Shawntay.
Is that true? You don't like Shawntay?
Okay, let me clear this up.
You told my producer that Shawntay rubbed your shoulders pills in a romantic way. What did you mean by that?
Oh yeah, I told you this. Remember we was all drinking and yeah, once in a while I used to pop pills and she comes from behind the couch and goes like this. And then I looked at her and she's cheesing in my face and I'm like, what? Let me stop you there. That is never gonna be attractive to me. I'm not saying it. I just said I got weirded by it. Look at my wife and look at you. I don't want you, you don't want me, I know that.
I don't wanna call the next. I wanna call the next.
See, I'm about to leave. No, she's being disrespectful and I'm trying to talk to my sister.
I don't want you to leave.
I respect her in that sense.
Barbara, I wanna know, do you believe Shante tried to touch you in a romantic way?
No, and I don't mean romantic, I just said she did and it felt weird. That's fine, but don't try and throw my wife, I'm the most beautiful thing on this planet to her and I know that for a fact. I'm outta here. I can't, if I can't talk.
No, I want you to talk.
No, that's not fair.
I want you to talk.
I just said something, I'm not even attacking you. I just said, 'cause you keep cutting me off and I'm trying to talk. He asked me a question, how I'm cutting you off?
I did ask the question, that was on me.
Okay.
So, Valena, do you feel like your mom and sister's ganging up on you? 'Cause I'm seeing that you're walking away. So do you feel, why do you feel that way?
I can't answer that. You can't handle the truth. What are you talking about? I'm about to go 'cause she won't leave me alone. Okay. This is what I'm talking about, the respect.
Why haven't you spoken to your mom Cheryl in months?
I reached out to her. Matter of fact, I reached out before I went to surgery and she had a surgery the next day. I talked to her the next day and she said ask her friend because she knows how she's feeling. So I stopped reaching out.
Why did that hurt your feelings?
Because I should ask my mother, she should be able to tell me.
Okay.
I've been reaching out for her all my life. I wanted her to love me.
So even though in that moment you were reaching out to her, it just brought up these feelings of when you've reached out as a kid and she wasn't there. But it's funny because you say she's disrespectful, you say she's disrespectful, everybody, all of y'all got mouths. All of y'all are strong. So let's be real. But the thing is, is that this is learned behavior because when we see adults who have attitude now, it's usually out of pain, out of something that's happened in their own life, or they've come from households where they've learned this. How was the behavior with your mother? Growing up, did you witness her being more aggressive? Did she have a mouth? Was she abusive?
And it's not like I'm just sitting there throwing her saying, oh, she beat me with extension cords and belts. Well, she did. When did that happen though? You know she did. No, I don't. You know she did. Come on, man. That never happened. Come on, man. She didn't ever beat you. No. Why do we get put in foster care then? Why did they tell her that she was telling that they did? I have no idea. I've never been hit with an extension cord by anybody. Why is that on all the records at the CPS? On what records? Pull 'em up. Pull 'em up. See, that's the problem. I'm trying to be honest and speak my truth and you're not listening, man. 'Cause that's not my truth. I do not, there's no extension cords.
Do you feel like Barbara doesn't believe you about your childhood?
Yes.
How does that make you feel?
It hurts me. I just feel like when I reach out to her, it's like if I'm saying something and she feels like I'm saying something disrespectful, whether it's to whatever, to her or somebody else, she gets defensive and I don't want her to be like that. I want her to just express herself. Because just how you just sat up here and told me, you don't remember that, you don't remember that. If you're gonna come at me aggressive, I'm gonna respond aggressive. You have to accept the fact when I say something, if I do not remember, that is okay. Okay, well just say you don't remember about you. You're saying it like she don't hit me. I can't speak for you. Okay, well that's all I wanted to know. If you're speaking on both of us, you know what I'm saying?
Listen, we're here with Barbara and Belina Sisters who say their relationship is broken because too many lies, physical threats. But I think there's a very important piece of this story and a very important person that needs to get in here, and it's the mom. Everyone, please welcome Cheryl to my show. There's a lot of pain that's going on here between your daughters.
Mm-hmm.
Okay, so I gotta ask you, why did you get a restraining order against Polina? Well, she was threatening to kill her.
And they were getting into it and they was, I don't know, she grabbed a knife and said she was gonna stab him. I never grabbed a knife that day. You did grab a knife. I didn't even go in the kitchen. We were all in the kitchen. I was in the living room. Okay, so. I don't understand. What are you talking about? I was putting the baby in a big old couch I had Alex strolling, I was trying to leave, you kept saying, "Go get her, Barbara, get her, Barbara." You was chasing me. Why would she tell her pregnant daughter to go fight you? Because that's what happens. That's not, "So I'm gonna fight you pregnant." That doesn't even make sense. Get her, Barbara. I'm not a dog, she can't sic me on you. Okay, see, let's bring it down a notch. That's what she did.
So why do you say you weren't mother of the year? Because you told my producers that and I thought that was very interesting language for you to say.
Well, because I wasn't the mother I should have been had I known how to be a mother.
Okay. It just, it was, they have grounds to be a little upset with me, although I've asked for forgiveness over a lot.
I try to forgive you.
Yeah. Yeah, and— I gotta give you, I gotta say I appreciate you acknowledging that because sometimes I get on the show and a mother will not even acknowledge that they didn't do anything wrong. So one of the things what your daughters are fighting about is like she's saying there was no abuse in the house. She's saying there was. Did you abuse your daughters in that moment when you were in a bad place?
Nobody was ever hit with no extension cords or beat like that. But Melina, I don't know where you got that from. I have never hit you or Barbara with an extension cord or anything like that. Yes, you did. You switches. What the? You went outside and grabbed a switch. You didn't go outside and keep grabbing switches? Every time we act up. So you mean, okay, so. Come on, man. Now I'm delusional. Now I'm just delusional about a spending board. I'm telling my truth.
I don't know.
I'm letting you tell your truth and I'm telling my truth. This is what happened, okay, to me. Okay. And then this is what I feel now. Like I'm getting attacked. Like, no, she didn't. No, she didn't. Okay, now I get it.
I hear you. I hear you.
This is it.
What is it?
I'm not attacking nobody. The minute I start to I tell my truth, y'all like to step in. Y'all have to understand that you two are the reason why I'm broken.
Tell me how.
Tell me how. Laugh it off, pretend like nothing happened. Then you wanna sit up here and go back and forth. You guys is okay with not talking to me for a long time. No, it's not. I was dying. Ask my wife. But you didn't reach out to me. For what? So you can do this? Do what? Pretend like you didn't. Like I came for you. How many times have I said if you ever had a problem, talk to me? And you say, no, I'm good, we're good, we're good, we're good. We're good, sister, we're good. No, and then as soon as you got something to say about my wife, come talk to me, but I'm not messing with your wife. I never said that. I'm not choosing between none of us. I never said that. Oh my gosh, you never said that? I don't respect your wife. That's not— I mean, that's fine, but—
Barbara, I need to know.
I don't have to be around her.
Barbara, what do you need?
See, every time it's about her wife.
Hold on.
I'm telling you, every time it's about her.
Your daughter's She said she needs a true apology for putting her hands on her. Well, I apologize, baby. Now the second thing is that she wants to know, because this is your baby, why did you feel okay with knowing that you can go a year without me?
I would never be without her for even a second.
But do you feel like she did?
I thought that. She was just like, I'm done with you 'Cause I'm not perfect. So without you guys, I don't have nothing. And I've never not said you can come through my door ever. But why would I wanna come there when there's stipulations and you're like, well, this and that and third? There's no stipulations.
During this time period when y'all weren't talking, why didn't you reach out to her?
Because I felt like she didn't wanna hear from me. She said I was toxic. I did.
Okay. That hurt. Yeah. I know, Mom. I could imagine. Can you apologize to your mom for calling her toxic?
I do apologize for calling you toxic.
Can you say to your daughter, I wanted you back and I missed you during that time?
Of course, I've always missed you, every day.
Do you feel like you've heard your mom? Do you feel like y'all have healed each other?
Yeah. That's a start.
All right, time to bring out Valena. Valena, can you come back out? So now you're back. You heard them talk about acknowledging each other, apologizing. What do you wanna say?
I wanna say from the bottom of my heart, I do apologize to you, to your mother because you gave birth to me. You loved me and I loved you since day one.
How can y'all fix each other then? How can y'all fix this relationship? Can you apologize to her wife?
Oh yes, from the bottom of my heart, I do apologize for anything I've said or done to you or disrespect you in any type of manner. I wanna grow to learn to respect you and your marriage and not say anything that's outta bounds between you guys because you guys chose each other as one for a reason. And I gotta respect that.
Can you accept that?
And I'm sorry.
This is just a step.
And I mean it.
This don't mean it's healed. This is a step.
I really do mean it.
Can you accept this first step?
Yes.
Okay.
And I apologize for whatever I did to your sister, your daughter. I know. Thank God. First step. You did the first step. Thank you.
All of this in here is a first step. I really do honestly, I really see a lot of love in this family. I swear to y'all, does this give you a little bit? I wish I had 5 hours sometimes, girl, 'cause together we would, let me tell you something, we'd have went out, we'd have had a little coffee, it'd have been cute, okay? We'd have figured this all out. But do you have a little bit of something that you feel like you can go home with some tools to be better?
Yeah, I'm just happy to be talking to 'em and see their faces. Me too.
There we go. Can y'all give each other a hug? 'Cause I really appreciate y'all.
I got a phone call last month on my birthday from my sister that changed my marriage. She said that he was talking to women at work and being grimy, and I'm not okay with that. I felt heartbroken. We have 3 children together. We've been together for 6 years. The man that I thought he was is not who he is. It's embarrassing. It's heartbreaking that he could do this to me. To our family. It still hurts. I feel like I married a stranger.
So how did you hear about Aaron flirting with the coworkers?
My husband, he actually works with Aaron in the same area. And there were multiple people coming up to him and telling him that Aaron is talking about being with other women and basically criticizing these other women and saying he's going to tap them and what he would do to them and sleep with them. Who even says they would tap them? What is this, the 1980s? Grow up and treat a woman with respect, especially your wife.
You better preach, you better preach.
It's crazy.
I mean, if your husband works with him, why would he even be so bold to say that at work?
I feel like Aaron thinks that he's all this and all that. And honestly, he's nothing but a lowlife who can't keep a job, can't support his family, and doesn't deserve my sister. She's amazing, she's beautiful, she's kind, and he does nothing but beat her down.
How did your sister react when you called her?
When I called my sister, she, I could see the look on her face. I video chatted her, and as soon as I told her, she, her face just dropped, and she was so upset, and I could just tell how she felt, like she was outraged, but she was so sad to know that he would do this to her. And honestly, it doesn't even surprise me because I've known Aaron like my whole life and I tried to warn her from the get-go that he's this way and that he would treat her like this. But I guess she didn't believe me.
So from your opinion, outside of him saying, "I wanna tap it," do you believe that he has been cheating?
I do. It breaks my heart that he has beaten my sister down so much and broke her heart. That I can't stand him.
Got it. Do you think your sister should be with him?
No, I absolutely think that they should be done. They should end it. I feel like Aaron would just go his separate ways and he honestly wouldn't even care if she did leave him.
Okay. Well, you know, we unlocked Aaron's phone. Do you think we're gonna find anything?
I do. I think there's definitely gonna be some stuff in there and I honestly can't wait to find out what is in that phone because my sister deserves the truth.
All right then. Well, listen everyone, I think it's time to meet your brother-in-law Aaron and get his side of this story. Aaron, come on out.
You see though, I haven't done shit.
You haven't done anything, okay.
No.
Okay. And I honestly can't wait till you freaking show everything on my phone. Do you feel like she's trying to break up your marriage?
Yes.
You do, why? Because she has been jealous of me and Kaylin from day one. Got it. She gets mad because Kaylin's able to get pregnant. This one, she thinks that she gets pregnant even though she doesn't.
She's pregnant for not even a day and then the next day the test is positive, which I find funny.
So, so, okay. I'm not gonna go too deep in that because talking about her fertility issues, if there might be some, is a little bit too much. Yeah, I'm sorry, love. Here you go, here you go. No, no, no. Here you go. Here, take this napkin. Take this napkin. Here you go. Sorry about that. That was a pretty low blow for your sister-in-law. I can't stand her. Yeah. I've hated her since day freaking one.
Yeah.
She did make claims that you said you were having sexual conversation with your coworkers. Is that true? No, I did not. 'Cause she said that came from her husband who was a friend of yours and a coworker.
But see though, me and her husband don't work in the same vicinity.
Okay. What's this tattoo on your arm?
And has worked for multiple times. Caitlyn's initial.
You have her initial on your heart? Yes. Okay then.
What a joke, should be a broken heart. You're a joke.
So why do you think they're accusing you if you're saying that never happened? I honestly don't have the slightest freaking clue.
Why would all of these people come to us saying, like specifics. Why are there so many? Specifics.
Why are there so many different stories then?
What stories? The specifics were that you were talking about sleeping with other women, what you would do to these women. No, have you? About tapping these women, that's a weird word. Word to use. Like, nobody uses that word anymore. Nobody. Like, we're not old. We're 22, 23, and 4 years old.
Have you ever cheated on your wife? No. How have these accusations affected you?
That's pissing me off because this is the first time that has ever happened in any of my past jobs.
Okay. And any of your past relationships, have you ever heard someone accuse you?
No.
No one. Now, your wife is the one who called us and asked us to unlock your phone. Um, are we gonna find anything?
No.
Okay, well, I think it's time to meet your wife Caitlyn and get her side of the story as well. So everyone, please welcome Caitlyn to the show.
How dare you do this to our family? And don't ever say that about my sister again. I don't care.
I can't stand it.
I don't care. I don't care. You're not going to do that. I didn't do anything. You have broken my trust. You, you have hurt our children. You've hurt me. I'm done. I'm done with it. You better not be lying to me anymore. I'm not. You better not. You better not.
Thank you for being here. Okay, so what happened when you contacted his female coworker?
I had asked her if she even just knew him and she told me at first that she had spoken to him. Yeah. Like just coworker stuff. Not a big deal. But it is a big deal because I had asked him and he said that he had never talked or was around them. So when she told me that, I confronted him and this one, she, I guess he'd never even spoken to her. But she told me word for word their conversation.
Got it. We have some of those messages that my producer wanted me to take a look at. Hi, could you tell me what my husband has been saying to you? How are you always smiling? I said, I'm not. It's just not been a terrible day yet, but this place can do that to you. Good luck. I don't know who that's from. Is that a message? He said, "There's two older women he tapped, excuse my language. I'm his wife. We have three young kids. He definitely said it was flirtatious talk with hints of sexual innuendos on his part. She's married with kids and would never cheat with anyone." So this woman is confirming that he made sexual innuendos or something, but the woman never did anything back.
Not that I know of.
Okay, what is your—
See though, in further messages it also says that, I never even spoke to this bitch.
Okay.
No, no, no, no, no. That's what you told me. That's what you told me. That's also in your messages too that we didn't even speak. No, it is not.
How's this affected your family, Caitlin, and your children?
When I found everything out, I was devastated. I was hurt and it happened on my birthday actually. So I got the call from her and she had told me She had told me, and obviously we started fighting and yelling, and my kids hate that. They were crying, they were screaming. I took them away. I didn't want them to be in that because they don't deserve that. They deserve the best in life and not this. This is not what they deserve.
Have you ever suspected Aaron of cheating in the past?
Not like physically cheating, but he has done like internet things in the past, like on dating sites and looking at half-naked women.
Yeah.
Which skinny women? Yeah, well, that doesn't matter to me.
Yeah. It does to me. Okay, is he a good husband, a good father?
He can be. He's not always been. He's working on it though. He has made some improvement, but not always, no.
Aaron, I gotta just talk to you because I'm watching your body language. I'm watching the way you're standing and I read everything and I'm watching just the intention behind your eyes as well. There's something going on with you of where this aggression is coming from because this, it seems misplaced. I understand that you're upset about being accused and like you've heard me say before, like I have to listen to all sides and take your side, but there's something going on where you seem angry or there's something I'm missing here and I'm not getting it through this story. This is just me just staying calm. Okay, okay. I'm just sorry. My feeling and my intuition's always just something else is going on there. And I really hope to help you all because at the end of the day, there's a family here and we just saw your 3 beautiful kids. And so there has to be some resolution here. Do you feel like your sister is trying to break you two up?
No, I don't. I think she's just trying to be there for me.
She's trying to protect you. Yes. Good. Okay, so then why haven't you two talked? 'Cause she said y'all haven't talked in a long time.
I mean, we do. I'd like to hang out with her more. I'd like to be with her more, but— Like the other night. Yeah, that was amazing. The hotel bar, and we had, we had fun. I had to help her in the elevator. Yeah, I'll just say that.
Okay.
Yeah, I would like to associate.
Well, is Aaron the reason you don't see your sister too often?
Partially, yes.
Why?
Uh, he just doesn't like her, and I don't like conflict, so I'm not going to cause that conflict because I got to hear about it at home.
So you're like, just to keep the peace, I'd rather not see my sister and just keep Piece of phone.
Exactly.
Okay, well you called the show because you want to unlock his phone, correct?
Yes, I do.
Yeah, and you want to know if Aaron's been on any dating apps with other women, if Aaron's been calling any other women, and if Aaron's been texting other women.
Yes.
What will you do if we find something in his phone?
If I find something, we are done. I told him if he lied to me at all about anything, he could be going, he could tell me he's going here and he goes there, I'm done. I'm done. You did give him the chance. I did. She did. On the way here, she gave him the chance. She said, I told her. Here's your last chance to tell me anything that we might find, Aaron, because if we find something, it's done. Got it, got it, got it. And I really hope she sticks to that. Oh, I am, I'm serious.
Got it, got it, got it, got it. Okay, well I think it's time to unlock your phone. You gave it up. All right, so in this envelope we have the results of what we found in your phone. Caitlyn, it wants to know if Aaron has been on any dating apps with other women. Aaron says he's not. Mind Lock the Phone investigators searched his apps and found that Aaron is telling the truth. I do hear that. I'm sorry for that. Caitlyn, you wanna know if Aaron has been calling other women. Aaron says he has not. Mind Lock the Phone investigators searched his calls and found that Aaron is telling the truth. I'm guessing you're lying. Caitlyn, you wanna know if Aaron has been texting other women. Aaron says he is not. My Unlock the Phone investigator searched his texts and found that Aaron was not telling the truth. We found 1,101 deleted texts in the last 2 weeks that are sexual in nature. Can I see?
With who? I'd like to know.
Can I see this? Well, we print 'em so we can see. Let me look at this.
I can't believe you, Aaron. See, I knew this. I knew that this was gonna happen. And now look at my sister, she's heartbroken again.
Oh, okay. This is, my producers have highlighted so that we can see if you wanna read this, that first one that's highlighted. Do you know who that's from? Do you know that person?
Yes, I know who this is, but I never agreed to this type of stuff.
Got it. 'Cause I just read that first message. That first message.
Yeah, I guess he's referring to me, but I don't know like why.
Okay. So you did know this person and what's going on?
Yes, but why be talking about our sex life like that? Why would you talk about our sex life like that? To him, it's his buddy, it's his friend. What? Yeah, it's—
Got it, so you know that.
Yeah, but okay.
Okay, okay. But this is the last one. It says, okay bro, I'm gonna delete our messages so they cannot pull 'em up.
Nice try though, right? Oh my God.
Okay.
Smooth.
Okay, so how do you feel?
I feel shocked. Like, why are you gonna go and talk about our sex life to somebody else, to your buddy? Why would you do that? I didn't think there was anything wrong with it.
I'm sorry.
Oh, nothing wrong with it, but you could have at least maybe told me about it or asked me, you know, to see how I feel first. Yeah, you are married. You just go and flaunt our business to everybody else? That's personal information. Oh my God. That should not go to anybody else. It should stay between you. No, no, yes, you're right.
So this was basically an invitation for a threesome?
I guess so.
Okay then. Okay.
Holy crap.
Okay. How do you feel about this? You know about these messages? Yes. Did your wife know that? Clearly she didn't know you were having these messages.
Correct.
Okay. Caitlyn, have you talked to him about it?
About that?
Yeah, about any of this?
No.
You didn't know any of this? So how do you feel that this is happening?
I'm shocked. I don't like that. That does not make me feel good.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Got it. So what is your feeling on this?
I'm just, I'm at a loss for words right now. Well, I didn't get to see 'em, so.
Well, it's highlighted here what it's worth.
Oh, wow. Wow. Oh my, oh my goodness. Oh my God. Oh my goodness.
For me, I'm not, you know, I love to be messy.
Absolutely.
But I also have to, the reason I'm not gonna have that be said is because of the fact that you all have 3 children and I wanna make sure that your children are protected. So there's conversations you need to have with your wife about things. Yes, there is because—
Yeah.
Okay, great. Are you willing to have conversations with him about how you two move forward?
Yes, I will. But I don't wanna discuss that.
I fully respect it. What I'm gonna say to you all is that I think you're young and I think that y'all have been catapulted with kids with these relationships very fast until adulthood. And I think that there's a lot going on that needs to be processed. I think that you all have to hear each other out and talk about where you're growing to now, 'cause you're only 23 and 25. And I think that in this, new conversation needs to happen. But what I do encourage you to do, and please take my advice, is have grace with each other when you're having these conversations because any conversation you have now that doesn't have grace will affect your children. You know what I mean? And just remember the kids. Remember the kids, that's all I ask, all right? Well, listen, I appreciate you all being here. You all got your answers. Take my advice, okay? You'll be okay, all right? You gotta start off. $20,000 is a lot of money. So please tell me. Yes, it is. What's the story of this $20,000? I mean, first I think we gotta go back to where it all began. Yeah. Growing up, my father wasn't around much. He was an addict. Okay. He was able to hide the fact that he was an addict because he was such a damn good liar. Like such a good con man, right? He's an abuser. He blames all of it on addiction, but it's just who he is, I think. So all of that is leading you to believe that he took this money. So what did your father say about the money? So my grandmother died. She had money, she had a lot of money. She spoiled him growing up. Everybody in the family knows this. He was known for being a spoiled brat and my grandmother would bail him outta everything. When my grandmother died, she left me $20,000 to go to college. Only stipulation was that had to have my name, had to go to college. When I was in high school, I think my junior year, he told me that he was getting his son associate's degree. At the end of high school though, I asked him where my money was and he told me that it disappeared. What's interesting about that thing about the associate's degree is because you said that part of the stipulation was the $20,000 was to you as long as you went to college and is in your name. Exactly. And so you and your father have the same name. So do you think that your father went to college just to take your money? I think he went to college just to take my money. It made zero sense that he would go to college for anything considering he doesn't have anything that he wants to do with a degree. He's all— Did he finish? I believe so. I haven't spoke to him in a while. How long has it been since y'all spoke? About 2 and a half years. 2 and a half years, got it. The last time I spoke to him, he told me stop contacting him. Oh wow. Yeah, he told me stop contacting him because I wasn't giving up on the money that he had said my my grandmother left for me for college. Was your father around when you were growing up? Not much. Growing up, he had visitation rights here and there, but I would go visit him in halfway houses and all types of things. Like, we slept different places. He tried, he tried somewhat, but he's a shithead. He can't help it, I guess. Was he abusive towards you? Yes, for about a year when I was around 12. Got it. We were living in Dayton, Ohio. When we were living with him, it went from, you know, living in an abandoned house in Dayton where there were roaches and mice and all types of stuff. Like, you could go into the kitchen and the mice and the roaches, they're just there. They don't run, they're just there. That's how comfortable they— it was more their home than it was ours. Wow. Then we moved to a second home in Dayton And in that second home, one morning, I think probably about 2 weeks into us staying in the second home, he woke me up with a belt, you know, beating me. Like, he didn't say anything. He didn't just wake me up first. I turn around and I get smacked in the face with a fucking belt. You know, I get up. I think he said, "You wanna fight your mama? You wanna argue with your mama?" I have no idea what he's talking about. But he's in some Timberland boots with basketball shorts on, no underwear. To wear because I know because his stuff is just hanging all in the wind. But he's like, you wanna fight me? He's like, fight me, fight me. So I'm not a punk. I'm no bitch. So I fight back somewhat, or at least I try to, but my pop's 6'7". He boxed and wrestled in the Army. He's beating me up, he puts down the belt, he's like, fight back, fight back, like I'm getting initiated into a gang or something. And you know, essentially it took me a while to comprehend the fact the fact that that was abuse because I've always been accustomed to fighting back. I'm from Detroit. I come from nothing. I had to fight for everything I have. But growing up, I realized how much it really messed me up. He beat the shit outta me. So when you got to high school, you started to try to, you got outta that household because he stayed on drugs. Yes, yes. Is he sober now? He claims he is. I don't believe him though. My producers, and this is striking me, 'cause my producers, I remember telling me earlier that your father told you something about his kidneys. What did he tell you about his kidneys? Yes, yes. So my junior year in high school, he contacted me and he said that his kidneys were failing. You know, I took that as, you know, he's dying. And I mean, I was thinking all types of things like, man, would I be able to give him one of my kidneys? So, you know, he slowly, you know, we started talking again, he came down to Texas and watched a football game and he went down for my graduation. The night of my graduation, we went to dinner and when it was me, him, and his wife, and when he went to the restroom, I asked his wife about the kidney. She said she had no idea about it. Was his wife Jamie? Yes. Okay, Jamie, you're here today, right? Hi, Jamie. Is it true that when you were at dinner, that you didn't know about the kidney failure?
No, I didn't know about the kidney failure.
You didn't know about it. And how long at this point had y'all been married?
2 years.
2 years. And did you ever find out, ever, did he ever go get treatment for his kidney during that time?
We never really talked about it anymore.
Never talked about it anymore?
No, it wasn't.
How do you feel about this situation? Do you think that your husband is capable of doing this?
Stealing the money?
Stealing money?
No. From the 4 years that I know him, Well, been married to him. I don't see him as stealing any money, not from his son. Got it.
Got it.
I just see him about trying to get back together with his son.
How do you feel about what was just said? Well, about the addiction part, got 8 years clean, he said, and I'm proud of that. 8 years clean. Congratulations. Big designer, and I'm still in school, right? So what happened with the $20,000 a year? It was $30,000, right? I've never seen the money. Will, right? And yes, my grandmother spoiled me. She died in my arms. And what was supposed to have been left for me, because I was getting high at that time, that she said she wasn't gonna leave it to me. Gonna leave it to your son. I'm cool. I was cool with that. I was getting more money from her being alive than I do with her death. I'd rather for her to be here. So it ain't about the money with me, right? Never been about that. When did they pass away? 2015. 2015. Yeah, 2013. So 8 years ago.
Yeah.
So you were still been, like you just said, you were still using at that time. Yes. Did you take your son's money? I gotta ask you clearly. No, for what reason? No. So what do you think happened to the money then? I don't know. I really don't know. I've never seen no paperwork with the money. If you're referring to my great-grandmother, right? Gramps? My grandma. Then her. I'll have access to that will.
Okay.
But I don't think anybody's been referring to Grandma, that's the one that left the money. Oh, you talking about my mom? Yeah.
Oh, my mom.
Yeah, she left you everything. No, me and my sister split everything, so. So is that not the one that left the money? No, my grandmother. Let's go back. My mother passed away, what, 2002? So if you received everything, you must have access to that will, right? No, I didn't. Well then, how do you think happened to the money? Listen, Listen, listen, listen. Final will and testament is a legal document.
Well, you find it, son.
Listen, I never seen it.
Oh no, I'll find it.
Listen, check this out, check this out. We both can't talk at the same time, right? And you always had a lot of mouth since a little boy. Oh wow. Regardless of the situation. And that's why we always went through what we went through. You can say what you want. That's why. Listen, you can say what you want to me, but when it comes to your mom, and me and your mom, I don't even like your mom. But for you disrespecting your mom in front of me, I'm gonna put my foot in your ass. Simple, just straight. Why would you tell me that your kidneys are failing? I didn't tell you my kidneys failing. Yes, you did. Man, you such a liar. We should've took a lie detector test for that. You ain't changed at all. I didn't know. Well, tell me about not talking about it. Have you done everything you think you can to mend this relationship with your son? Yeah, you know, for the last 8 years I've been living real good. Have you apologized? I apologized to him face to face. In Texas, right? And when he told me, he said, um, you don't even take accountability. How you gonna make an apology? Listen, sorry, look, apologies are action statements. Sorry, hold on, hold on, hold on. Check out, check out the action. You take accountability at the same time. You take accountability for your actions when you apologize. I didn't steal your money because we both can't talk at the same time, right? So I didn't steal his money. So, so even for me to give my apology, right, he won't even shut up enough for me to give him that. So I didn't steal his money, so get to that. Okay, but I'm trying to do that right now. I can't even, but even without the money, I'm watching the behavior and I'm even watching how you talk to him right now, telling him to shut up, the way that you're not acknowledging the abuse and how you're standing here. You've been like this forever. Like I'm watching those things. There's still patterns of what he experienced as a child that I'm seeing exhibited in front of me right now.
Yeah, like you still got the same crackhead abusive ass tendencies.
It's some drama. That's still my child. I am in the process of writing I'm not gonna be here to make you look bad. A lot of people know my story. Within a year, I'll be a published author. People are gonna read my shit. My book is in, I'm gonna publish it. And your book gonna be straight bullshit, so. We're gonna unlock the truth now to get to the truth of this, but I will tell you this, this is my advice before I end this. No matter what the test says, you stole his childhood. I do know that much. Yeah, I know, I stole his childhood. You stole his childhood. I stole his childhood. And I'm gonna tell you this, you are still stealing his dignity. I'm watching this right now. You are still stealing his dignity. So whether you stole money, you do have to reconcile the fact that there's a childhood that's stolen, his dignity is stolen, and you're not acknowledging it. I'm watching the way that you're still talking about it. If someone has expressed, as a father, if my child expressed to me, this is what you did to me, I was abused, I felt hurt by this, no matter what a child's actions are, they're still a child. And he's telling you right now that it affected him deeply.
Deeply.
Money in this context is a synonym for security. Because what happened is, is a child did not have any security and the one bit of security that was given to him and passed down to him, he feels like the man who robbed him of his security his entire life has now taken the last bit of security that he deserves. So that's why money is an issue. So you have to understand that.
Open that thing, Nate.
I will, I will. But your question was, why is this about money? And I'm trying to break it down to you in a way of what it is. So in this envelope is the truth of the matter. Are you ready for this? Sure. All right. So when it comes to if Eric Sr. has stolen the $20,000 or $30,000 from you, the truth is he did not take your money. How do you feel about that? It was a whole lot more questions. I feel like Eric Sr. is a really good liar and he believes all his lies. So quite frankly, you pass a lot of your skills down to me. So I know, I know how to lie just as well. And I know that from, from the wrestling, from the lying, from the cheating, from the steal, from the conniving, from the lying that you doing up here. All that shit had, listen, it's a lot of shit I wanted to break the cycle with from the womanizing. Just 'cause like womanizing. Yeah, from everything that I lived through that I was passed down, I would love to break it. Oh, I'm not womanizing like you. That's why I was hoping you was gonna be the first one to go to college, but I kind of beat you there. You was supposed to be in the first gamble, but I beat you there. So you know I'm good. So hold on, so you wanted this test so that you can repair your relationship? Yes. I'm gonna tell you again, I'm gonna tell you again, Eric Jr., you gotta gimme a moment real quickly because the way that you're communicating him right now as if it's a competition, I beat you there, I beat you there. If you really wanted to get this to be cleared up so you can move forward with him, the way you just communicate with him is still abusive. It's still abusive in it. I beat you to it. It's like, why beat him down more?
Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on.
I mean, but you know what? Hold on, listen, that's because you put You put it out there wrong, man, so I'm not gonna let you do it. I wanted to put it, because it was supposed to have been celebrated, right? Because I didn't go to college. My mother saved up all this money for me. Yeah, you wanna be celebrated, right? And you wonder why, so when— But he's right in that moment. I listen, I'm an outside third party. I'm talking to you though, right? And I'm trying to talk to you. But to celebrate him, you don't have to say that I made it first. No, no, no. I can celebrate my kids all day long and never have to tell them that I made it first.
I did it first.
My children, one of my sons right now is getting in the industry and there are so many things he accomplished and when he accomplished them, I say, "Oh my, it's good for you." I have never once come outta my mouth said, "You know what? Well, I did it first. You know, Dad did it." Oh, okay. I sit there and I say to him always, "I'm so proud of you. You keep going, you keep making it." I'm always proud of him. I know, but what I'm trying to help you to see is that— He was supposed to be the first Gamble to go to college. It's the point I was supposed to make. He was supposed to been the first Gamble to go to college. I waited till I was 50-something years old. That was the point I was trying to make. Competition. Every time that you were around, you know, to witness my success, it was always, you know, you just— you're not— you feeling good for me, but you feeling good about me. Because yeah, you, you seem to think that my success is in some way your success. It's not. Not at all. I didn't play no part in you getting here. Everything that I have, I've worked for. You are— and quite frankly, I don't need you in my life. Okay, listen, I will tell you this. I'll tell you this.
Yeah, I'm cool with that.
I'm cool with that. I think that was a, you made your point clear of where you stand in your life right now. Listen, Eric Jr., I wanna let you know something. I believe in you. You have accomplished so, so much and you are gonna do really great things in your life. And I don't want you to let anybody, not even your father, put limits on what you can accomplish because you're gonna accomplish great things. I know there's a lot of trauma and things that you have not been able to deal with. That you're not gonna get answers for, but you can still overcome this as you already have and you can soar. So just keep soaring. We all believe in you. Trust me, okay? I believe in you. All right? Good luck. I wish you all the best. All right everyone, thank you for being with us. Make sure to come back next time, friends, so we can keep talking and we can keep growing. I love you all. Thank you. Good luck.
Good luck.
No intention, you know. A lot of stuff was said, right? A lot of stuff I could have said, but I did not attempt to damage my son. I want him to be successful. I just wanted my name cleared with this money, you know. I'm kind of hurt behind the situation. I'm not in a relationship with him. He made me look bad out there, but I'm okay with that. And I would never make him look bad. I don't kiss nobody ass, not even my son. So if he don't want nothing to do with this, I did my part. I can sleep well now. I'm cool with that. This story is about 4 siblings who are suffering from the past and desperate for a brighter future. One of the siblings named Coach called our show because he fears if someone doesn't step forward, their family bond will be broken forever. Everyone, please welcome Coach to the show. Hey, Coach. How you doing? How you doing? I heard y'all Haitian. Yes. Est-ce que vous parlez créole? Oui. We're not gonna go too far. Coach, okay, so you call the show. Tell me, how did you all grow up? So ever since I was a child, all the kids were close. You know, me and my siblings were very close. But we grew up in a house where the parents weren't really supportive. Our father wasn't there for like a big part of it, and, um, we all grew up together. We grew up close because we knew it was sort of like us against the parents. And then finally, when we met up with my dad— because for the longest he was staying with another woman— when we met up with my dad and we started living with him, we find out he had another kid. And so, but you know, the whole thing didn't bother us. It's okay, we're not gonna treat the other kid any different, but— But it was hard. It was hard, yeah.
He was very abusive.
His words, you know, he would call us pieces of shit. He didn't really care. Do your siblings have your back when it comes to all of this? King, yes. Sean, no, not so much. Okay. Yeah. Why is Sean different from the rest of you, do you believe? You know, I feel like a big part of it is because he was the oldest. It plays a part, you know. He grew up a little closer to him than we did, um, sort of cultural expectations as well. Yeah, you know, we, you know, growing up, we— me and King and KD had that chance to like, you know, form into who we wanted to be. But Sean was the oldest, so it kind of like, you know this is how it needs to be, that type of lifestyle. So does Katie still live there? Yeah, she still lives there, man. I mean, yeah, she still lives there and I can't take her to like a job interview because she's so shy because they want her to stay in. She can't leave the house. She can't hang out with friends. And who's they? That's your father? My father, yes. And is Sean as well? Does he always want her to stay in the house as well? Sean believed the same thing, yeah. That she should stay in the house. And why are they wanting her in the house? She has to watch over my younger brother, you know? They feel like it's her job, you know? And you know, she has a life, she gotta live her life and everything is holding her down. How were you able to get her on the show today? I called KD, I told KD about the thing, about everything and I'm like, this is a chance for us to get together. So I want you to have a conversation with mom. I want you to have a conversation with dad. Let them know that all of us needs to sit down and we need to talk together. My dad wasn't for it. That's why he didn't wanna be here, but here we are. But your mom was willing. My mom was willing, yep. Right, okay. So Coach wants to start the journey towards helping his 3 siblings heal, and that road first leads to the older brother Sean. So everyone please welcome Sean to the show. Hey Sean, how you doing? Hey, I'm fine.
How you doing?
Welcome to the show.
Hello.
Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too. I like this jacket. Oh, thank you. So Sean, I wanna ask you really quickly, do you think it was right that your brother called the cops on your father? It was not the right thing to do in my opinion. Yeah. You know, 'cause the way we do things is like, me personally, it's not the right thing to do because it's like you're doing something that's in the favor of you, you know what I mean? But you're not thinking about the other ones. I am thinking of the other ones. That's why I called the cops. No, actually— I was looking at my sister. Actually, actually, here's the reality. Okay, my sister was 17. I get it, she's a minor, okay? And my father was making the most income, you know what I mean? Yeah. So the way I look at it is like patience. Yes, we needed to talk to him. Let me speak to him. I was telling these guys, "Hey, be patient. Let me talk to my father about this whole situation, how to like talk to the people, you know, the children and stuff, how to like," I would say, "How to raise them." You know what I mean? Give me the time to speak to him 'cause I'm the oldest one, right? That doesn't give you the right reason to just call the cops. Out of nowhere just because he, he have done something. You don't give me a chance to speak to him, you know what I mean? There's 4 siblings in crisis hoping today will be the beginning of a new and peaceful future for all of them. Um, we've talked to Coach and Sean, and now I'd like to speak to the brother in the middle of all of this. Please welcome King to the show. Hey, how are you? Hi, thank you for having Thank you for being here. All right, so King, what do you think about Sean's behavior? Well, I think honestly Sean just described everything that is wrong with society today.
Okay.
And I personally think since I've known him, everything he's done is because he's selfish and it all goes back to what he wants, what helps him. And being that I'm the second sibling, I had to step up and take up his role and do his job.
While doing it and while having my dad kick me, he was also kicking me on the side.
And it wasn't just abuse from parents, but not only was I doing the job that he was too coward to do, but I was taking abuse from him as a sibling. And it didn't help. King, I wanna know from you, how do you feel like this is affecting your family? How did being in this family affect you is a more important question for me. It destroyed my mental health. And the reason it hurts me most when I found out with everything that happened with Katie is because my main goal, knowing how much I took from the abuse at home, my main goal was to make sure the ones that came after me didn't have to go through so much.
And it was not easy to do so because the one that came before me was doing the opposite.
Opposite of that. King, just let me ask you this. So you actually were homeless for a little bit. You had to live outta your car or something of that nature?
Yes, I did.
It was more than one time. And why was that? Honestly, a lot of it I will say is because I would rather suffer outside wherever life took me than to spend another second in that house. You made a face there. What was that face for? Because you also said that you left because of the pressure. Yes. So he's telling you this 'cause he almost identical. It's 'cause nobody understand me. Both parents and those two, well, those three of my siblings. They don't understand what you've been through. They didn't understand. While they're having their family drama, they don't understand. Here goes the parents, they don't understand me. I'm trying to put them together and stuff, you know, trying to like set peace in the family. They feel like I was taking sides, both of them. All it takes is patience, just be patient. You're not ready for out there right now. Just saying patience, what do y'all think? What do you think he's saying? It's aggravating when he says patience because I always say it's one thing to say I'm going to be a doctor, I'll be patient, I'll go through the process. It's another thing to say I'm going to be patient in an abusive relationship because you don't know where your patience ends. There's no patience with abuse. It's either someone dies unexpectedly or someone managed to get out when they can. So you saying that he hated you? I'm saying that he hated me and you didn't make it better. I didn't make it better. I didn't make it better. King, what is your relationship like with Katie? I love Katie. And honestly, I think I felt, I still feel guilty today by how much she took being at her age.
She did not deserve any of it.
And she's still in the house. And she's still in the house. Got it. And Katie will suffer more because she's younger. And with all of this being said, This one didn't help. Look, this one didn't help. What did you do to help? What did I do to help? Aside from the fact that we got him arrested and you got him out?
I got him out. Why? If you could have helped him, why didn't you let him out? Hold on, hold on, listen.
I'm gonna get to him. Let me get to him. Because of his income. What is it? Now you just pissing me off. Listen, you just pissing me off.
Hold on.
Let me get to him. He does not understand. 'Cause you know what you're doing? You give your friends more and more love than your family. Like he's fucked up. Listen, sorry, I'm so sorry, but he only cares about his friends.
Do you ever show me love? Oh, I'm glad you asked.
Let me talk to you. Let me talk to you. Just be quiet. Let me talk to him. Yeah, does he show you love? You asked him, does he ever show you love? Does he show you love? Do you show him love? Look. 'Cause I'm wondering, were y'all close at one point? Did you ever show him love?
No, at one point we were close and then No, you weren't close. Growing up in school, I was always being called names.
And then when I get back home, my older brother was also calling me names.
How?
That destroyed that relationship.
But aside from that fact—
How was I calling you? He said that you were friends with the whole family. We were young, we were kids, you know what I mean? Of course we were immature. We were. You were. We were.
You were.
Okay, he's talking about when we were 13, 12 years old. That's what he was talking about. I hear you. The reason y'all see me quiet here and y'all see me taking a whole bunch of notes is because I really do see where this pain is going, where this pain has started. I see a lot of this and I also can see how we could fix this. But before I can do that, we've heard from Coach Sean and King about the pain and dysfunction they endured in their home. But what about the only female sibling, Katie? I wanna talk to her now. So please welcome Katie to the show. Hey Katie, how are you doing?
Hi Karamo.
Welcome to the show. Let me give you a hug. Okay. Nice to meet you. Take a seat. Nice to meet you. Um, Katie, how does it make you feel? How does it make you feel that these two brothers right here are fighting for you? All three of your brothers, that your brothers are fighting for you? I'm not gonna single you out right now 'cause I'm still learning the story.
I have so many emotions. Like one part I'm like, they're doing it 'cause they care. But on the other part I'm like hurt 'cause it's like all three guys that I love, even if they drive me crazy at times, they're going to like fight for me. It's kind of toxic and sometimes it makes me cry.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Which of your brothers do you still talk to?
King and Coach. Mm-hmm. I purposely avoid him on purpose. I don't want to talk to Sean.
The three of you, can you do me a favor really quickly?
Yeah.
Can you take a step backstage for me?
Yes. Yeah.
Sean, can you come down here?
Yes.
I asked your siblings to leave the stage because I want to have a productive conversation with you. To you right now.
Yes.
When I was listening to you, if you noticed, there was no judgment coming out. Yes. It's very easy for people to judge where you're at and the things you have done. What people forget is that when you're a child and you receive a certain type of abuse or behavior, it becomes learned behavior that you then pass on and think that it's okay.
Yeah.
You are in a situation where You had to escape, so you know something is wrong. You know the pressure was wrong. You know that you had to leave because something wasn't good.
Yes.
It was hard for you when you got hit. Super hard. What did it make you feel like every time you would get hit? Did you feel alone? Everything was just messed up. I felt like, yeah, I felt like it was hard on me, the pressure and— Did you think that you deserved it? No, I didn't deserve it. What did you deserve? Tell me. I wanted a family, a father who knows how to give chances. I understand sometimes you gotta discipline your children, but come on, with no chances? With no first chances? Hey, here's a second chance, or even a third chance. Let's sit down, let me talk to you. Hey, you did something I didn't appreciate it, you know what I mean? "just don't do it again, you know, next time, you know, there's gonna be consequences." So this makes sense now. Yeah. The father that you wanted was a father that would give you chances because in your mind you were a kid that you're like, "If you just gimme a chance, I'll show you, don't hit me." So that's why we hear this language of patience because he thinks that he's being patient in giving his siblings a chance.
Yeah.
And I see all of that confusion in when you're talking to your sibling 'cause you're saying to them like, "I love you, I wanna be there for you," "But I just, I just, I just, why don't you see it from my point of view?" I'm seeing your point of view is what I'm trying to let you see. But what I need you to do for me right now is to take it one step further and see your siblings' point of view. Your siblings are telling you that they understand that you had to do stuff, but the abuse should've stopped with you, but now they're wanting it to stop for them. So when your family comes out here, you can say that to them. Can you do that? You wanna talk to your siblings? Yes. I have no issue with Coach. I know. I'm sorry. You did the right thing. Although sometimes I feel like I'm doing the right thing, but I'm actually doing the wrong thing. So I'm sorry, truly.
I do love you. And we were close.
And as for Katie, I thought I was giving you tough love, but it was not the right way. Truly, truly sorry, okay? Sorry I wasn't there, okay? I thought I was doing the right thing. Just accept my apology whenever you think about it. That's all, okay? Sorry. And as for you, King, me and King got into it yesterday. Yeah, I can see his body language. We did, 'cause I was trying to get close to him, you know what I mean? I'm trying to be his friend and be cool with him. Believe it or not, I care so much about you. I really do. All of y'all. Were affected by a man who didn't love y'all right. That language of tough love came from his father. That's not his language. So let me give you the new language as I close this up. When it comes to love, it's never tough. Love is just love. If you ever have to give toughness with love, then there's a problem there. I like that. And that's the truth.
I like that.
And that's where you gotta stay in now. So when you see something happening with your sister, if you're like, "Oh, this is tough love she got," she doesn't deserve tough love. She just deserves love. So anything that's making it tough needs to be removed. And as siblings, that's your job, to remove the toughness and just make it love. And I believe y'all can do that for each other. You understand? Can y'all give y'all brother a hug? Y'all gonna be all right. You good. Okay. I don't know what it's like to have family. When my twin brother and I were born, we were separated. My dad was in jail when I was born.
My mom, she was on drugs.
She placed us with other family members. I would often see my mom in the streets and we would literally like walk past each other. When I was 9 years old, my great aunt passed away and my dad was coming to get us, but we didn't know we were going with my dad. After a while, my dad started to putting his hands on me, constantly talking down on me, constantly comparing my brother to me. I was always called a sissy.
I was always called I was called all of the names.
I said something slick to him. He put his hands on me and he was trying to choke me. I thought he was gonna kill me. Well, I picked up the phone and I called the police and they arrested him. We were put into foster care afterwards. We were told that our mom was gonna come get us, but she didn't come get us. My brother, he was very mad at me because we didn't know where we were going. And we didn't talk for a while.
I never had a chance to just talk about how I felt.
I just wished I was loved growing up. I remember telling my dad something slick about a remote, and he came towards me and he was about to choke me. Like, he was going to choke me.
And he choked me, and I thought he was gonna kill me.
Like, just the way that he looked, I saw a different person. And—
I was scared, so I called the police.
When you called the police, what happened? Why does he think that that's the reason? Because the police saw the abuse? No, the police didn't see the abuse. I had to come up with another reason to get him in jail. The police was like, "Well, we don't see nothing wrong with him just hitting you or choking you." And I was like— Okay, so then what was the other reason? So I told the police, I said, "If someone's growing marijuana," in the backyard, what happens? Well, they can go to jail. So I told them, they tested the plant, then they took us. And so he went to jail. That's why your brother thinks it's your fault. Yes. Gotta understand. So it sounds like living with your dad during that time was hard. Yes. Like there was a lot of treating you bad. Yes. What do you want from your father today that I can help you with? I want him to take accountability and I want an apology. Okay.
I think we run away from those things.
We need to talk about it. Instead of just moving on, act like nothing happened, all smiles.
No.
Understandable. Most of this is lies, as I see that. So you feel like everything he was saying that you heard was lies? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My son could have came to me when times were coming. He's saying he's scared of me and stuff like that.
I was scared of you.
Okay, you was scared.
I was. You know what y'all did? What you did? Let's be real. What I did? I'm a kid. First of all, I was labeled at a young age Or you 16. I don't know nothing about that. You know what you did to me. I don't know nothing about that. You know what you did. Y'all used to, because I was so different and not being, I was never heard. Y'all used to push me to the curb and y'all used to favor Rashard. And I would say, well, your brother do this. No, my brother shut up and he listened to y'all and put up with y'all. I was always different 'cause I was not gonna tolerate that.
You the adult, you got to listen.
Yeah, and y'all not parents. Just like he shut up and listen. You need to shut up, that's your problem. Because you scared. I was never scared. My mouth got me places because I didn't allow it. I didn't allow it.
You're not the parent. I want to hear his side of the story if I can really figure out how to facilitate. So tell me from your point of view, is this your first, how long has it been since you all seen each other? 5 years or something. 5 years. Okay. And so you said, how do you feel about what he's saying right now? I feel like it's all. Talkin' about how I choked him and he was scared of me. I'm gonna show you what I did to him. We had a confrontation coming in from the house. We was coming from somewhere. He would take my key and twist it without twisting the knob, and that'll break the damn key. So I said something smart to him about that. He turned around and said something smart, and I just sat him down like this and told him, you're not gonna disrespect me in my house. He got, he started hollering and crying like I shot him, ran outside with the house phone in the rain, called the police, And that's what happened. He figured that they didn't see where I bruised him at, so he went to the marijuana plant thing that I had, 2 plants about that tall in the backyard. He went to that to finally get out. What he didn't know was they was gonna end up with some people that don't give a damn about you more than you thought your daddy didn't.
It's just like, I could see, like, I'm not gonna just, I'm not gonna bash him, like, but it's all about the accountability. I was a kid. You put a kid in the projects and he living free, no structure, no nothing. In those times of just sitting in the projects, I was molested and I feel like that played a part in my sexuality. Like, and nobody ever asked me, like they never sat down. It was like, no, no, 'cause y'all don't care. Y'all just threw the word sexy and they never care. All I got was juicy and I couldn't even say it. Tell my side.
Call him a sissy and stuff.
I ain't never called him no sissy. Every side, Mommy and Daddy's side, they sat there letting them people say whatever they wanted about me. I knew from when I was young, I knew from when I was young I was gonna be the kid that nobody liked. I never was liked. It's hard out here. I got into a foster home and they tried to show me what it was like to have a family. And in the beginning it was so nice. I had a family, I had everything. They took me to do sports, things that I never did, travel. I put you in sports. I was up in the game. When I put you in sports, you didn't wanna play? And the thing was, while I was with them, I kept thinking about my mom and my dad. I said, look, these strangers, and they're lesbian, they accepted me, I got to come out in their house. If why they can do it, why my parents can't do it? Like, come on.
So you two were separated when you were put into foster care system. What was that like for you?
We were separated later on, like towards the end of foster care system. When we were separated, our relationship, like, I know we went like 3 months. Talk louder. We went like 3 months without talking to each other at school. Like every day I would see him.
Yeah. And like during them 3 months, I felt like it was like, How can I say this? All right. During them 3 months, it was like, I felt like he was the reason why I was, like we was in foster care and why some of the things we went through. Yeah. Ronquan and Rashad's mother is here today in the audience. Shanika's here right now. Hello. Thank you for being here with us. So I'm gonna ask you point blank, we're hearing and you've seen the pain. Why didn't you get your kids out of foster care?
'Cause I didn't have the transportation, the ride to get up there to get them.
That wasn't a good excuse. That ain't good enough.
That was not a good excuse.
I wanna talk about your actions.
Yes.
Can you acknowledge that maybe you as the mother, as the woman did not do enough for these kids and played a part into the life that they had? Because I heard you say a couple times that it's just his fault. Can you acknowledge that it was both of y'all's fault, that you played a part in it?
I played a part in your life. I wish we can take it back. Whatever y'all wanna do.
I swear, I can't do this. You're doing a great job. No, no, no, no, you're doing a great job.
That shit hurt, man.
Listen, I want you to know something. I know it's hard when it's like, because no one wants to be attacked right now, but at the end of the day, there's two kids up here that are like, I'm just looking for answers. And we forget that as the adults, we gotta give them those answers. We gotta give them the healings. If these kids was right now was 2 years old and ran in here and they were like, Mom, my leg is cut, I'm bleeding. Are you gonna be like, I can't do this? Are you gonna run and say, let me try to put a Band-Aid on it?
Let me try to put a Band-Aid on it. Let me try to fix it. You can do this.
They need you. So you just did a great job. Your sons have said they never heard you say that you have taken accountability. You just took accountability.
Right. Apologize.
And you apologize as well. Yes, sir. How do you feel about what your mother just said?
I don't feel like it's sincere, really.
I feel like she got pressured into apologizing. But if it wasn't like, if we wasn't around all y'all, she would not say that.
That's okay. So let me tell you something. Let me tell you this.
Yes, I am. I'm gonna tell you this, I'm gonna tell you this because I understand that it's very easy to feel that way and you're valid for your feelings because you grew up in a household where you always felt like what she's saying is not real, where you can't trust it. And so it's easy for you to say, well listen, it's only because y'all here, there's cameras here. But sometimes we have to acknowledge the little growth because until we can acknowledge the little growth and then say, let's see how you go from here, you're always gonna always be believing the worst. You're never gonna have a chance to heal yourself. So I would encourage you, I know you've been hurt before, I know it's hard for you to trust, but you've gotta at least be able to say, "All right, you know what? You said it and I'm gonna hold it from here." Can you hear me? Yes, sir. She acknowledged and she apologized. Now this is where you get to say, You just did that. Next tomorrow, if you don't do it again, if the next day you don't do it, now I can say now it's BS. But right now you have to be able to say, okay, I see the little growth. Right. You understand? She's trying to give you a little something. How do you feel about her apology, acknowledgement? I accept her apology now.
Thanks. I feel I always loved my mama even though I never really got to saw much of her, but I always been a mama's boy. They called me soft. They called me everything. So to hear her even just say that, that moved me because I never heard it. So it was like, that might be my favorite parent, but I never have a relationship with both of 'em. But to hear her even just say it, that moved me. And I carry that with me 'cause she never said it before. So I know it's not BS.
She says she wants to do better. He's saying he wants to do better. Yeah, we gotta talk more on this phone, man. We gotta talk, man.
I need your phone number, man.
Be talking to you, man, on a daily basis. Because like I said, if I would've known back then somebody molested him, I don't know if she knew or not. I didn't know, he just told me about a week ago. But if I would've knew, I would be still in prison. That's how I feel about mine.
I understand, I understand. Yeah.
I get it, I get it. So do you feel seen and heard?
No.
Is there anything else you feel like you need to say?
There isn't really much.
I just want people to, I want people to get from this is talk about it.
I feel like in the Black community, no one ever sit down and talk. They just move on. My friends, it feel like I'm a therapist at times, even though I'm hurting myself. But I sit and I hear my friends' problems. Anybody I talk to, they have issues and it all stems from them, their trauma, not being able to talk. And I came here today to set the record straight for all of those foster children. It's kids that I run across, I wanna show them that you don't have to be fucked up. You don't have to be like the people you came from. You can move forward, get outta that environment and do better 'cause you can. It's never too late.
So listen, I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you. I'm glad that you got what you needed from your mother and your father. At least there's a step taken today where both he acknowledged that he said things to you that was wrong. But I will say to you one thing is that you two, y'all gotta communicate and speak Y'all gotta stick with each other more. You're brothers. Y'all gotta be there for each other. Your brother was doing only what he thought was best to protect y'all. And I know it's hard for you because it feels like he caused certain pain in your life. He didn't. He didn't. Both of your parents were in a place in their lives where they couldn't do what they needed to do, and they both have acknowledged that here today. But y'all gotta be there for each other. You understand? And now something for you. You're a very smart young man. You're a very smart young man. You're smart.
Smart man.
You hear me? You got a bright, bright, you got a future ahead of you, you understand? Like the way that your mind works, I could see you sitting in this seat one day. You hear me? Very smart. You understand? But I want you to take something from your dad. Your father just said he's in a space right now. He's working on his anger. He's working on trying to be there. He just reached over and is holding you right now.
Right now.
Use him as a guide to start to work on your anger. You hear me? Because once you get that fully under control, I promise you the sky's the limit. Sky's the limit for you as well. You understand?
Yeah. Come on, boy.
How's it feel to have your father hug you, man? How's it feel? Ronquan, how does it feel to have your dad hug you?
I feel good.
You feel good?
Yeah, go to my mom. You want to see her? Let me go hug her. You out there, go on out there and hug your mom. Come on now. It's okay, it's okay, it's okay, it's okay, it's okay, it's okay. All right, son.
Good job. You can come on up here. You took a big first step. Thank you for being here, all right?
Thank you. I'm sorry.
No, no worries. You ain't gotta apologize. You did a good job. It wasn't about me. Your son's got what they needed. I appreciate all of y'all taking a big step. Y'all took a big step today. You two as parents acknowledging what you did and apologizing and for you two finally being able to be heard and seen. All right? Y'all just keep working on this and y'all gonna be stronger together. All right? Good luck. All right? I'm glad I could hear you for y'all. All right everyone, thank you so much for being with us. Come back next time, friends, so we can keep talking and growing. I love you all. Take a look at these three sisters. That's 21-year-old Jenny on the left, 27-year-old Janae in the middle, and 32-year-old Jasmine on the end. Although these siblings are smiling in this photo, their relationship is now on the verge of destruction. I know it's sad. Please welcome Jasmine to the show. Hi, how are you doing? Can I have a hug? Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you.
So we got the pretty in pink memo today, I see. All right then. So what's the current status of your relationship with Jenny?
Well, right now we're very on bad terms. She thinks she could just rule the world and thinks she could just talk to me crazy. I did a lot for her. Just recently she had me blocked for about 6 months and then she unblocked me 'cause she had to go to the hospital and she needed me to be there like to comfort her. So she called me like, "I broke my finger, I broke my finger." She crying and like—
So she blocked you but unblocked you for the finger?
Yeah.
Got it.
So she's in the hospital, so she's in the hospital crying, saying all type of stuff. I'm like, "Okay, well you'll be okay." And so I'm like, "Okay, maybe there's a chance for her." We could be back, cool, be together. So I'm like, I'm gonna call the show and see if it could give her some help and help us, like help us all. So I called my sister Janay like, oh, Jennifer called me, she said her finger was broke. And Janay was like, I don't think that's a good idea because y'all always arguing, there's always something, like stay away from her, still tell me stay away from her. So I'm like, you know what? We all just need to just like work on us and or whatever.
So you're trying, you're trying. I appreciate you coming to the show and helping me work it out with you. So what was your relationship with your sister like when you were younger?
Well, we just was like, we all lived in the same house together. My mom really wasn't there like that. So I was like, I had to grow up at an early age 'cause I had to make sure that I like take care of them, like feed them and stuff like that. So Janay, she didn't really used to be in the house with us like that. So it was like normally used to just be me and Jennifer. And then I end up having a kid at 15. So it was us three, my son. Jennifer and my mom, but my mom never was really there. So yeah, so after that she started going to jail and started going to juvenile hall and stuff like that. She ended up going to group homes. And so for me to get her out the group home, I used to have to like go to courts. I had to get a certificate. I was 9 months pregnant, so I had to like, I was like trying my hardest to make sure, 'cause my mom was like, please get her out of the, please get her outta the group home, please. Don't let your sister be stuck in the system. So I made sure, like, I was at every court day. I had to take classes. I had to, like, do all this type of stuff. But I'm 9 months—
That's a lot of pressure on you.
Yeah, and 9 months pregnant too. I was like, ooh, told y'all I was about to have my baby probably like in a couple more weeks.
And did you finally get custody?
Yeah, I got custody of her. She came and came home with me. She came home with me.
What kind of nasty things would your sister Jennifer say to you?
She'll just, she'll be like, "Oh, I hope you die. I hope you crash your car and die." She told my kids, "You gonna be motherless just like me. You ain't gonna have no mother. Your mama gonna be dead. I hope she die." And gonna tell my daughter, told my daughter, "Your dad should've raped you." I'm sorry to hear that. She say hurtful things like that.
And your mom passed away last year. Died here, right?
Yes, she did.
And was Jenny there when she died?
No, she came like 3 times since she'd been in the hospital and my mom ended up passing and Jennifer came on the deathbed when she was already dead.
Wow, okay. Well everyone, we've heard one side of this story and I think it's important to hear the other side. So everyone, let's meet Jasmine's sister, Jenny or Jennifer. Come on out. Hey, how are you doing?
Hi.
Thank you for being here. You look nice.
Thank you.
So I wanna start off, you were, there was a lot going on backstage. What were you feeling and going through? 'Cause I heard you stomping.
Them was lies. Like, you know, I did have, I didn't ever had a mom growing up. Like, you know, so you can't sit here and think you can just do this. Like, you know, you was never a big sister. You never gave me that good role model. Like, you know? If you wanna sit here and do this, you gotta be real. Like, you know, you gotta be real. Like, you cannot be fake on this TV show. You have to be real. Fakest one. You're a liar.
It feels like you don't like your sister.
I don't because— I hate her. I hate her guts. Anyway, Jasmine is a real evil person. She's messed up in the head and she got a lot going on. I don't got nothing going on. I'm happy, I'm good. No, anyway, all her whole life she just been like all messed up. Messed up. Like, and like, you know, saying I don't love my mom, I don't do— who want to see their mom on a deathbed dying from like, you know, her going through drugs and stuff, all that? I slept under the— I slept on the freeways with my mom. They was nowhere to be found. I slept under freeways with my mom, with her. You wanted to live like—
like what?
I didn't ever wanted to live like that. However, I'm 12 years old with my mom and I'm sleeping away from her on freeways, not knowing nothing, not knowing nothing. So of course I was like a little You know, bad back then, but okay, I didn't have no guidance, no mom, I didn't have no dad, I didn't have no sisters, I didn't have nobody. She's lying. She didn't take care of me since I was 14.
What do you think your sister's lying about? What do you think your sister's lying about?
I was on the run. I had to take the— I was on the run. You came out with me. Jenea called the police on me. That was before you were 14. No, you sound dumb. Yes, it is. You really sound dumb. I've been in jail since I was 12. She forgot. She forgot, she forgot, she forgot, she forgot. 'Cause court team, she was with me and I had to go to the courthouse and everything. 'Cause you a snake.
So I just wanna know from you.
She really mad because she got beat up by her friend and I'm cool with her friend, that's why.
I wanna know from you. Did you have custody of your sister?
Yes.
Did she have custody of you?
Since when? Jennifer, you know I had custody of you. 2016 to 2017. You wasn't 16. Jazz, are you alone? You're done. I've been on a run. My daughter is 4 years old. I was pregnant with my daughter when I went to go get her. My daughter is 4. Do the math. Excuse me, I'm talking. Yeah, do the math. Excuse me. Shut up. 2014 to 2017. You think you granted, but I will beat your ass. You won't beat my ass for sure.
No, no, no. We not.
You're not like that. You're not like that. I don't know you. I don't know you. I know nothing about you. I don't know nothing about you. Why you here then? Why you here then? 'Cause you playing hella games on this TV trying to make it look like true. Okay, like I said, they don't have to believe me. They can see the way you act. I wanna know something.
Do you all want a relationship?
You got me here dumb as fuck. Excuse me?
The thing is, is for this to be resolved, somebody has to wanna see this relationship be solved. Otherwise, I can't be here for y'all.
I'm fine with my sister that I have. Backstage.
Okay, so I need Janae out. Please bring Janae out. All right, um, I saw what's going on here. How do you play involved in this? Are you close with one of them or the other?
Well, I'm closer to Jazz now. Um, me and Jennifer, we never really had a good relationship. Relationship. Like what Jasmine was saying, when Jennifer was young, she was running the streets and stuff, and people, and people were calling me. I was living in Tennessee at the time. People were calling me saying Jennifer was on the run from her group home and they didn't want her at their house. So I called the police to pick Jennifer up, and when they picked her up, she was— Jasmine was able to get custody of her get her emancipated later on. But she went around saying that I was a snitch and every time she get mad, like if I don't give her money or something, then I'm a snitch to everybody.
Got it. I understand that. And so for you, from your perspective right now, do you believe that this relationship can be repaired?
If Jennifer learns to be open to somebody helping her and guiding her. But if not, then no, because I could say anything to her. Like I could say anything and she'll get upset and wanna, "I hope you die, I hate you." So I backed up from that 'cause I don't play with words like that.
So do you two have a relationship?
Yeah. Yes, we're girls.
Let me go talk to you. Let me go talk, okay?
Hopefully she don't hit you.
She not. I got this. Can I first have a hug?
Hi.
Okay, so I don't know if you heard what I just talked about with your sisters. I acknowledge that you got some pain and I just talked to your sisters. Did you hear everything I said to them? I acknowledged that there was things going on with you that for them, from their perspective, it was like, oh, she made the choice, she got this. I see through this anger. I see through all of this anger. I see the pain that you have going on and I see that like, You feel a bit abandoned, you feel like people don't get you.
No, I feel like y'all not listening to me.
Tell me, I wanna hear you.
Like I feel like y'all listening to them and more than y'all listening to what I got going on. I've been through, I didn't like, they had an experience with my mom I never had. Like I've been through way more than they've been through, whatever they going through. Like I've been through way more. Like I'm the youngest, I never had a mom. That been consistent in my life like them. I never had all of this stuff. I never been happy. Like, I met my mom, she was already on drugs. Like, I don't, like, people trying to say I ran from my group home, I did this, everything I did was for a reason. Like, I don't know. Like, it was back then, okay, but what about now? Like, you know, I'm not a prostitute, I'm not on drugs, I'm not doing none of that stuff. I'm doing, I'm working. I'm doing everything I can for myself. I don't wanna fail. I don't wanna be out here. I'm not perfect. I'm not finna sit here and be around y'all if y'all wanted me to be perfect. I'm not perfect.
What do you think you can own up to before I bring you back out?
I could own up about like everything. Okay, back then when I was broken, I was doing all that. Okay, yes, I was doing everything they said I was so-called doing. Okay, and but what was y'all doing?
Just stop there. You can own up to the fact own up to the fact that you what, had bad behavior?
Of course.
That you were disrespectful to them?
Of course.
What else can you own up to?
Smoking weed, going in and outta jail, fighting all day, every day, going viral, all this. I can own up to all that. I can do that.
You can do it.
I know what I be doing. I'm telling y'all I changed. I'm not that person no more. That's why I don't like bringing up the past. They don't know the new me. They only know this me. That's why they telling y'all about y'all.
I got it. So you just owned up to what you did. So can you introduce him to them? The new you? Who is the new you?
Me, I got my life together. Like I'm doing everything I'm supposed to be doing in life.
And what is that?
Like I'm working, got my own apartment, doing everything I'm supposed to be doing. Like as an adult, I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I'm changing. I mean, I'm growing, I'm changing. And that's the part of life, you change. And that's what I'm doing, I'm changing.
I'm gonna have you come out here and say something. Come on. So your sister felt like she has been heard just the same way y'all felt. She says that she's changed. She says she can own up to her past. I'm sure there's more things you want her to own up to, but she took a first step. Can y'all acknowledge y'all just saw her take a first step and say she gonna own up? Can you acknowledge? I see you nodding. I know you're a little bit tougher. You see it. Okay, tell your sisters that you've changed without saying something negative about them.
I changed.
Just come on now. You just did it with me backstage. They heard you already. You can tell 'em. Tell 'em how did you change?
I changed like my mindset, my standards, my worth, everything changed about me. Like, you know, I'm trying to be something in life. Like, you know, I don't want to be like this sister that everybody talk about bad about. I'm trying. Can I say something? How many times have, when you do something, have I told you I was proud of you? How many times have I told you I loved you? Jennifer, I have, it has hurt me for years when you was going through that situation. That was the only thing that I could do was to call the police when those people were saying that you needed to get out of their house. I did that because I loved you and I was scared about how you would end up. I've tried. I tried to be there for you. Every time it's a situation where we are around people like at Mommy Memorial, you will stand up and say, thank you, Janay, for being there for me, for being proud of me and this and that. But when I don't give you money or something— I don't care. I got my own money. It's not about the money, but let me tell you. Let's cross out the money. Okay, well, when I'm not— Okay, no money then. When I'm not giving you something that you want, then you hate me. You hope I die. You cry 'cause you not my sister. Come on, baby. Because you're my sister. Jennifer, that's why I don't talk to you because the lies start. I've been out of money for years now. Jennifer, years? You just was asking me for money a year ago. And I cut you off because you were saying you hope I die. And you hate me and I don't play with you.
I'm gonna take out that because the communication, I see where it's going. She was trying to tell you that she loves you and that she supports you. And that she wanted you to remember that she's been there for you. I saw where your pain got triggered and all of a sudden you were like, I'm doing for myself now. Can you just stop for a second and acknowledge that's what she was trying to do?
Okay, but you sitting up here trying to like, y'all don't know what you trying to do. Like y'all can't sit here and just like do that though. Like, you know, y'all can't just do that. That's not right. What are we doing? Name it. Say what we're doing wrong. What y'all trying to just sit here? Y'all not giving me my flowers about nothing. She just told you how it was. Proud of you. You're happy that you're sitting there. I'm not talking about money, about the show. Let's be real, why I stopped talking about y'all, I mean, why I stopped talking to them is because it wasn't about the money. They was mad about me not coming to the hospital seeing my mom. Who wants to see their mom going through— I'm not upset because you don't have to live with that. I don't have to live with that. I have made peace with myself. Yeah, but why would I be upset about your decision? I hate though, I don't wanna see her treat her like that. Come on, name that. Say that.
It's okay that you made a choice that was okay for you not to go to the hospital. I am not—
I watched her pass away. That, that broke my heart. I didn't want to see her suffer. Can't breathe, can't talk, can't do nothing. Like, what? No. And then I didn't go to her house when she went to Jazz's house. She went right back to the hospital because Jazz was yelling too much for Alisa.
Because I got to tell y'all something, one of the keys You're lying. One of the words that triggers all of y'all is lying. And lemme tell you something. Lemme tell y'all both something, and this is what y'all need to know. Children of trauma, you sometimes block things out. Timelines are different for people. You have different perspectives. You see things different.
I don't do anything in a different perspective.
And that's the problem. We have 3 people who've experienced trauma in different ways, and all of y'all see things in a different way. And then when the person doesn't see it your way, you call each other liars. You gotta stop that, first of all.
I never say a liar.
Okay, you didn't. You said liar, you said liar. Y'all gotta stop saying that, okay? Because right now, just because y'all have different perspectives and different ways, your truth is your truth and your truth is your truth. And the quicker you can own that and say your truth is your truth, your truth is your truth, the better off things are. You hear me? Secondly, the biggest thing from you right now is I see the hurt. Your hurt comes out in defense and anger and I get it. I understand why. It doesn't make you a bad person. You're defending yourself, you're trying to say, I'm trying to grown or whatever. You've been in a pattern with your sisters that now you always feel like you gotta defend yourself. You like, you gotta feel like you gotta fight, you gotta do all these things. I get it. You've lived a life where you had to survive. I understand you've been trying to survive your entire life. But the thing is, I'm gonna tell you as you leave this show, every time you try to survive and defend with your sisters, you're rebelling against love that is there. I know you just said to me backstage, stage, you feel like no one's there for you, but you don't have to rebel against love. I know you and this sister, y'all have some deeper pain that right now I can't fully solve. But there is a sister right here that's saying to you, she sees you, she loves you. Don't rebel against this love, okay? Don't rebel against this love because her timeline or because she brought up one thing. She wants to be there for you. But if y'all don't learn how to communicate, all of y'all gonna wake up one day and be missing each other. And I don't want that. I don't wanna see that, all right? Y'all gotta learn how to hear each other. Can you try to take that step to realize you don't have to rebel against this love?
Yeah.
Can you? Thank you. That's all I can get from you. Well, listen everyone, stay with us. We'll be right back.
Thank you for allowing me to be here.
Of course. So let's go back, Debbie. Your DNA mystery starts when you were planning a cruise?
Yes. Mine and my aunt's cruise that's called the Debbie Cruise.
The Debbie Cruise? Yes. I like that, sounds like a good time.
Debbie and Debbie Cruise.
Yeah. And so what happened when you were planning on the cruise?
The post office told me I needed a new birth certificate for my passport. So we went on to order a new birth certificate and it came back as Debbie Lynn Andrews instead of my original that I've known for my whole life, which was Debbie Lynn Marshall.
Wow, wow, that's interesting.
And it had Shane Andrews as my father. And my original had triple X. Wow.
Oh my gosh. So Debbie, we have copies of both your birth certificates. Let's see the original birth certificate. So it says—
Marshall.
Marshall on that one.
With the triple X as my father.
Uh-huh. And then let's see the one that you received.
Andrews.
Andrews.
I've known myself as Debbie Lynn Marshall for 30-some-odd years. And now I get smacked in the gut with Andrews.
What went through your mind when you saw that?
A lot of everything. An emotional rollercoaster. I woke up not realizing or knowing who I was anymore. Going from one name to another name and being who I am as a person, it did hurt me. It crushed me because I am a very sensitive person. My family can tell that.
How long have you been searching for your birth father?
As long as I can remember, to be honest. I've asked questions about him. I always heard it doesn't matter who your real father is because you got us, and then I heard it was somebody else, and I gave up a few years back 'cause I'm tired of the disappointment. I'm tired of the lies and the secrets. I just wanna move on with my life. I got kids at home. I have daddy issues, I do. But this isn't a way for somebody to find anything out.
Yeah, yeah, I understand that. And so you get this shock of a life with this birth certificate.
Yes.
And then you track down Shane?
I searched for him. And the only reason I searched for him was because I heard growing up, Shane Andrews, Shane Andrews, the love of my life.
'Cause that was your mom's love of her life?
Yes, that's what she always told me.
Got it. And then you get this birth certificate that also has the name, so it all just came together for you.
Yes.
And what did Shane tell you?
He told me he was with my mom at a point in time. He was honest that he dated my mom. I was looking at him at that time as a type of father figure, but never of him coming out as telling me that he could've been, or possibility of being my father. But I did take the steps and I went and I got a tattoo for Shane, and it says Dad.
Wow, okay.
I regret it now because of learning who he is and the lies.
And so now you said you're angry with him 'Cause it said, sounded like you searched him out, it was good, why are you angry with him now?
'Cause after a while he started lying.
Okay.
And then I get told because my mother died, I become distant. Yes, that's kind of true. Because when I lost her, I lost absolutely everything.
I hear that.
Okay, my mom was my rock, my heart, everything. No matter what lies or anything she kept from me, She was there for me. I didn't have a father there. Okay, that—
She was your mom, I hear you. She was both mom and dad.
No matter what I put her through, she never turned me down. Yet she treated me like a kid. I'm tired of being treated like I'm a kid. And living life without her is hard.
So why are you angry with Shane?
I just wanted the truth. My mom is dead. She's not coming back. There's no excuse that's gonna stop me from wanting to know the truth. I feel like I'm being destroyed, and it's not even me that's destroying myself. It's other people watching me be destroyed.
Yeah, because they should be able to give you the answers that you need so you can feel whole.
Exactly.
I hear that. Listen, our guest Debbie, her aunt is here whose name is also Debbie. That's why we have the Debbie Cruzes we talked about earlier. Aunt Debbie, how do you feel about this situation?
I want her to get the answers that she needs. Yeah. But I also know what answer she's looking for.
And what answer do you think she's looking for?
I know that she's looking to see who her father is, and it is definitely not that jackass that's gonna be sitting on that couch.
So you have an issue with Shay?
Oh, plenty of them.
Plenty of them. Where does the issue stem from?
When he put a knife to my sister's throat and threatened to slice her throat open. That's the kind of shit that comes with him.
Are these some of the things that made you regret getting the dad tattoo?
Yes.
Got it. Well, listen, Debbie has searched her entire life for her birth father, desperate for answers. She tracked down a man named Shane. I think it's time that we hear Shane's side of the story.
I've known Debbie for a long time. I know, I raised her.
You raised her?
He didn't raise me. Did you not come? Have you been to my home several times with my kids? I just told him I had a relationship with your ass and you're gonna sit there and come at me like, listen. How are you gonna disrespect me? I'm being disrespectful.
How?
This is my life. How? How? Because my mother gave it to me. The promises that you gave my mother are null and void. When did I ever put a knife to your mother's neck? You know what? My aunt was there. Why are you asking me that?
Your aunt was there when I put a—
Your mother was my world.
You know that. How did you meet her mother?
He asked.
How did you meet her mother?
I was in the penitentiary.
Came home, met her.
She kind of changed me.
Yeah, okay. And she had, she's got a sister named Jamie. I spent a lot of time with Jamie. Debbie was raised by her aunt, which is, her name is Debbie as well, which is Cheryl's sister. And the memories I got of her when she was a baby, last time I saw her, like, you know, but then she started coming to my house, calling my kids her brothers. I took them out. Whatever she wanted, I tried to help her as best I could, you know, but she wants answers that I was listening.
I don't know what she wants the answers.
And what's this all about?
How is your name on my birth certificate then? What's that answer?
Well, let's take a look at this birth certificate.
The original birth certificate.
That, her, like, your name is on there.
How could my name be on there when I was in the penitentiary? I was in prison. How could I, would I do it from prison?
So Debbie's aunt Debbie believes that you had something to do with changing her niece's birth certificate.
How?
Tell me, what's your point of view on this? Oh, I didn't know she was here.
Yeah, she's here. I don't think that my sister signed a paper that the Department of Vital Statistics says that they have a letter with her signature on it stating that he is their father. When I know for a fact he is not their father. We all know that. And I think that when she went to visit him in prison, 'cause she had to sign a prisoner log, that he had something to do with that paper being forged with her signature on it.
No, no. So Shane, you don't believe Debbie's your daughter? 'Cause she has the tattoo that says dad. You told her at one point that you were her father. She called me dad. In here, she's my daughter. Jamie in here is my daughter. That lady knows that. So you said that you told them that they're your daughter, but just in your heart, that you actually don't believe that you're biologically connected to them.
It's impossible. When they were conceived, I was incarcerated. You're not a dad. You're a liar. And you know what? I hope you drop dead. I do, because I care nothing about you. I don't. I hate you with every fiber of my being. Every ounce of my life.
I mean, let me ask you a question. Where's this, where's this, where's this hurt and pain coming from?
Because he's a liar. He's a liar.
What has he done to you to make you feel that he's— he deserves that type of treatment?
Because I would call him and ask him for help, and it's always an excuse of what he can't do it, he can't do this, he can't do that. But how many times has he had my sister at his house but he can't bring me and my kids? Why? Why? No, if you were my dad, I don't wanna hear it. If you were my dad, you would've been there. I'm gonna tell you why. But you're not. You're asking me why I never brought you to my house.
It was because of the life I was living. Okay.
She fit in, you wouldn't. Do you not know where I come from? She would've fit in a lot better than I did. Do you not know where I come from? She was born with a silver spoon in her mouth. Me, I was born for the streets.
Jamie, I wanna know something. Is Shane's name on your birth certificate?
Yes, it is.
So your name is on her birth certificate as well, right? Yeah, that's what she told me, yeah. So both of your name, your name is on both of these girls' birth certificate. And at one point, did you believe he was your father?
No.
No.
Never. She never did. I know who my father is. Uh-huh. It's not him.
So why haven't we gotten him tested then?
My father said the only way he would divorce my mother is if she would sign the paper stating me and Debbie were not his children. That is in their divorce.
So you think that's the reason that your name popped up on these birth certificates?
It shouldn't be. This is— you forged the name because, you know what, like we said already, if I forged the name, then I'm going back to jail. Somebody forged it because my mom didn't do it. And guess what? I can do my mom's signature to a T. My 5-year-old daughter can I was incarcerated when it did it. Okay, well, you signed into a visitor log book.
So I just have to ask one more time, how do we think your name got on both of their birth certificates?
I have no clue because when they come in to the prison, I'm in a visiting room, you don't even get to see your guests until they get in the visiting room. Whatever they sign in, I can't see that stuff, that's to the correction officers. So the correction officer, you're buying the correction officer's office? No, I'm saying, if you were your kid. I'm not blaming it. Now listen. Pack of cigarettes goes a long way in prison. That's all I'm saying.
Are you serious?
Yes, I am.
But I'm trying to figure out what would he gain by doing that? What does he gain? Thank you.
Let somebody— Attention.
Protection.
Attention. Attention.
What kind of attention?
You're a pathological liar. What kind of attention? Pathological liar. What kind of attention? Okay, what kind of attention? From somebody that's not even yours. That's what.
It's time to get to the DNA truth. Debbie and Jaime, are you ready to find out for sure if Shane is your father or not? Mm-hmm. You ready? All right, Jaime, well, let's start with you first. Here's the truth of if Shane is your father. Jaime, when it comes to Shane, he is not your father.
I knew it.
She knows that.
That's okay with me. I'm glad. I have no ties to him.
Debbie, are you ready now to learn if Shane is your father? What does it say?
Shane is not your father. Been telling ya. So again, Debbie, Debbie, I told you. Whoever my name is is nothing but a bastard child. I appreciate what everybody did. You are not a bastard child. You stay out of my life now, 'cause this is what I'm doing. I'm officially cutting you off.
That's fine.
That's the closest thing to a father we've ever had.
Wow. There's two things that I do wanna address really quickly. The first thing is, and is I'm so sorry that you are feeling so much pain because you don't have— All over again.
Yeah.
All over again. Because at the end of the day, I do see the pain that you're feeling of losing. You don't have to be embarrassed. And lemme tell you why you don't need to be embarrassed. Because you were a child, you had nothing to do with this. And so you shouldn't take on the embarrassment of somebody, I know your mother, You did the best you could. You had a love for her, but unfortunately you didn't get the answers while she was here.
Is there a possibility to do a familial DNA on me and my sister to see if we have the same dad? Make sure we have the same mother and father.
That's what she wants. Yeah, yeah, let's figure that out. We can try that for you. Yeah, we can definitely try that out. We can definitely figure that out. We can get that for you. 'Cause I'm sorry and I see the pain and I really do wanna make sure that we're giving you answers, some closure. Both of you, I mean, both of you need some love and support. I mean, you have your Aunt Debbie and I'm thankful that you are here to step up.
They've always had me.
Yeah, I know.
From day one, I've always been there.
You've been a protector to 'em. But you know, I do want to help you. My second question though is, I don't understand clearly why there's so much hate for him.
Because he's a liar.
But I feel like the things that happened before.
What did I lie about? I wanna know how your name got on my birth certificate. My sister's birth certificate if you didn't do it? My mom would not have done it. I was in penitentiary. Okay, but how? How could I have done it? How is my mom gonna do it? Like she said, a pack of cigarettes goes a long way. Are you serious? Because when I got my birth certificate— Anybody ever do time in prison? My mom said she didn't know how it got there. She didn't sign it. She didn't sign anything. So how did it happen?
So I'm gonna tell you this, and this is true from my own lived experience. Anyone who knows me knows that I found out later in life that I had a sister. My son when he was much older, when he was 10 years old, popped up on my doorstep. When I got his birth certificate, my name was already on it and I can tell you I didn't sign it. And so I give you that piece of knowledge from my own personal experience to say there could be a truth in what he's saying that he didn't put in there.
I see my original birth certificate had X's where the father was. Yeah, I saw that too. Can I chime in just real quick?
Yeah, sure, sure.
I love my sister with all my heart, always will. I miss her every day. She did not have the sense to be able to do this on her own.
Got it, got it.
So if she did sign this paper, she didn't know what she signed. She did it under duress and she did not know what she was signing.
Okay.
And yes, to—
And you believe that he's the one that did that?
I will believe that until the day that I die. I wanna know the same thing they wanna know. How did I get on there?
I get it, 'cause from your point of view, there's nothing to gain from being on there. No, because It's illegal and somebody's gonna have to pay for it.
Yeah, you are.
Well, I think one of the things we won't know because the one person unfortunately who might have that answer is not here. What we're gonna do is we're gonna end it here because unfortunately the answers aren't gotta come from this. I would like to support you Debbie and you Jamie in getting some answers about you two being sisters. I would like to support you all getting that. Maybe we can try to figure out a way to talk to the other man to maybe one of our team members can help him. To see like this could be good for him, there could be healing, because I do want you to figure out who you are. I want you to have answers.
More from Karamo
My Meddling Sister Made Him Doubt He Was The Father Because My Son Is Albino! | KARAMO
