She Gets It From Her Mama… For Better or Worse | KARAMO

So why are you suspicious of your daughter sleeping with your fiancé?

Well, because this, it wouldn't be the first time. Oh. If this is true, this would not be the first time.

Okay, hold on. So you're saying this has happened before?

This has happened before.

Tell me what happened before.

Okay, so me and, for a little backstory, me and my daughter, this is the only daughter I have, we've always been like super close. This is like my best friend. So we had the era of her dressing like me, trying to wear her hair like me, and I thought it was just cute, mother and daughter thing. So I had a boyfriend and she was always talking about how cute he was and handsome and stuff, and I'm thinking this is just the normal. But one day, so I'm upstairs, the kids are playing, I'm calling my daughter, I'm like, Aniyah, Aniyah, she not saying nothing. And I get up and I, I start tiptoeing down the stairs 'cause I'm trying to see what's going on. She down there with my man. He pulling up his pants and running out trying to do like this, trying to get out of there. And I'm on his ass. I'm on his ass. Like I'm putting hands on him. She on the couch trying to pull up her clothes and doing all this and that. And I'm like, she crying like she's sorry. And I'm like, yeah, I know you sorry 'cause you out of line. You shouldn't have did that. So we, I did put her out for 6 months. I put her out. I didn't talk to her. It was nothing 'cause you wrong.

You wrong.

[Speaker:KARAMO] How long ago was this? This was like 3 years ago.

Okay, 3 years ago, 3 years ago.

You know, so we didn't talk for 6 months. We built a bridge, we got past that.

Okay.

So fast forward.

You didn't speak for 6 months?

Yeah, we didn't speak for 6 months.

Okay. Wow, okay then. And so you passed that, you built a bridge, you felt like, okay, I can forgive you, you can come back in.

Yes.

Okay then. How long did it take you to break up with that man after that?

Oh, his ass was gone that same day.

Got it, okay, good.

Let's make it so. Gone that same day.

Let's make it so.

Okay then.

So how do you think she did? Why do you think she did this to you?

I think it's a little jealousy, a little resentment because again, I was a little harder on her coming up because she was boy crazy. You know, that ain't the first boy that I chased out the house, but that was my man, you know? I chased the other few boys out, but I didn't expect to chase my man out the house. So, you know, we built the bridge, we got past that. And fast forward to now, I met my fiancé, we've been together for a year and a half. And he was like, he's like the man of my dreams. Like he's great with my children, everything. I feel like I found my true love and we're supposed to get married in 2 months.

Yeah.

Invitations that went out and everything.

Wow, okay then.

But my woman's intuition is telling me this is happening to me again.

Got it.

And I'm hoping and praying that this is not the case.

Got it. So what is it that's got your woman's intuition got you thinking that this is happening?

A few things. Okay, so the first thing is she has a big butt, I'm not gonna lie. Unfortunately, I don't have that. She got the booty. And she comes to my house with these little shorts on and tight clothing and always bending over and he be looking with his little googly eyes. I done caught him a few times. I'm like, what you doing? Oh no, I was looking at the TV. You weren't looking at no damn TV. You was looking at her butt. And then he calls her Big Booty Judy. I'm like, why you calling her that? What's going on with that? And so then she calls his phone in the middle of the night. And when I answer the phone, she's like, "Oh." I'm like, "Why you calling my man?" She's like, "Well, I was trying to call you." Remind y'all, I don't got no calls, no missed calls from her, no text messages, no nothing. Then for my birthday, he took me to Chili's to get a 2 for $25. But for her birthday, he gave her $150. And his excuse was, "Oh, I didn't get paid then." When, you know, when her birthday came, I had more money. Like, no, that's not cool. And then my friend told me she saw them at a bar hugging and kissing. He denied it though. He denied it. He was like, "Me and her didn't go to the bar together. We met up at the bar." And I was like, "So you wasn't hugging and kissing on her?" He was like, "No." And I'm like, "Boy, you lying through your teeth." Well, my producers told me before we bring anyone out, there's something they want you and I to look at.

What is it?

We been messing around and that is over with. I just wanna let her know. And if they stick with him and decide to get married, I just want to get that off my conscience of being honest with her about everything. I want to tell her I'm sorry for even lying to her. I don't know. And try to work on fixing everything. That's what I was telling you. She blackmail me all the time. Oh, if you don't call her, I'm gonna tell her. I'm like, oh, come on now, man.

Come on. But I was in the wrong. I should never done it no way, you know. Besides, her mother, she come around me a little tight.

Yeah, enticing me in. I don't know, man.

I just want to get it out the way and come clean. What is your reaction to that?

I'm pissed off right now. I'm pissed off, I'm hurt, I'm angry because I had this suspicion. I felt it and I knew I wasn't tripping and they've been gaslighting me this whole entire time. This whole entire time they've been doing this. I don't even think I could look at them right now. I don't think I can.

Well, we have to bring out your daughter Anaya because she wants to tell us her side of the story. So everyone, please welcome Anaya to the show. Anaya, So your mother knows now the truth. Why did you do it again?

Honestly, I wanna apologize. No, Aniah, no, no, no, no, no. I asked you multiple times, were you messing with him? How many times did I ask you that? A lot. So why did you have to do this to me again? Why, Aniah? I've been back there crying, hoping this wasn't true. You know everything that we done been through, Aniah. You know everything that I have been through. Why would you do this to me again? I still feel like I had some resentment towards you for a lot of stuff. For what? Growing up, it was harder on me more. I wasn't able to go places, do things. I had to grow up way faster than what I had to help raising my brothers and the boys and Did he pursue you or did you pursue him? He pursued me.

He pursued you.

That bastard.

He pursued you.

We were drinking. But you didn't have to do it though, Aniah. You didn't have to do it.

Did he tell you that he loved you?

He said that a lot of times, didn't he tell me that he was gonna leave you?

What?

Oh, he said he was gonna leave me? Bring his ass up. Where is he at? Where he at? Where he at?

When did this happen before?

When he came to my house after we got done, he was like he wanted to leave her and I was like, this was a mistake, but I'm not finna let you leave her. That's not gonna— It was a mistake? You repeatedly doing it?

Can I ask you a question? Your mother said that this happened once before when you were younger. How old were you at that time?

I was like 16.

Okay, you were 16, got it. What happened when your mom found out the first time?

I know she chased him out the house. She came back, we got into it, she put me out.

Okay.

And we kind of rebuilt our relationship from that, but. And for you to do what? Again. For you to do what? To do it again. So you bring me, to do shit again, right? I'm fixin' to marry this man, Aniah. We supposed to be getting married in less than 2 months.

What happened to your daughter and what's happening right now? Is a direct consequences of two things. It is first, a lack of boundaries because you said out of your own mouth growing up you treated her like your best friend.

Right, yeah.

But then secondly, and this is what I'm gonna say to you in hopes that there can be real conversations for healing, your daughter was the victim of a predator the first time. Now I know you made the response that kicked him out. But the second part of this is what has damaged this relationship. And I'm, you were reacting with the best you knew how. So I'm not gonna sit here and beat you up, okay? But in the moment when you then argued with her and kicked her out, what that does for a child is it takes away security. It takes away my ability to understand sexuality. As I'm maturing as a woman, it makes all of these things confused that she's only now 23 and those things have never been solved. And so because that behavior happened once, in her mind, it hasn't been healed that this is not the way you react, that men should never be like this. And this is not an excuse for your behavior, but it's an understanding. You were a child that should have never had a grown man lay with you. You were a child that should have never had a grown man convince you. And you were a child that when that happened, your mother should have brought you in closer instead of kicking you out. Tanisha, if you want this relationship to heal, you have to bring her in now.

Now you right, I'm not gonna lie, Nia, I'm hurt. And he's right, you know, I did drop the ball when you was younger with that situation. So I wanna apologize to you about that. And family means everything to me. Like, you my daughter, I only have you, you're the only daughter I have. I'm just, I'm hurt right now, I am, but I love you. I do, I do, I love you. And we gonna get through this, but it's gonna take some time, Aniah. I have to be able to trust you. I have to be able to trust you, daughter. You have to stop the lying. You know, you can't continue to do this to me. You can't, you can't.

So the same way that the trust has to be rebuilt with you, she has to rebuild the trust in her mind with you as well.

Right.

But you did a beautiful thing right now.

It's taking a lot.

I know it is, I know it is.

But that's my child, that's my child. He gotta go, I'm done with him, but this is my child and I owe it to her, so.

Aniyah, how does it make you feel hearing your mom say this?

I feel a little relief from the past stuff. I just need to work on myself. I wanna rebuild. I want us to have that relationship, Aniah. We need to have that. I do too.

She has told you she's going to bring you in. She's gonna try to work on the trust. You are not 16 anymore. You have to be responsible for your choices even through your pain.

I just feel like she's trying to make me feel like, seem like the bad person. Like that's not— No, I'm not trying to make you feel like the bad person. That's not even how everything went down though. That's not even how it went down though. Okay, so how did it go down? Like nothing, everything that you're saying what you said was just— that was cap as hell, Mom. That was cap as hell. But that's another thing. She is so disrespectful. I'm disrespectful? But she don't even listen to nothing that I say though. When I do try to be respectful and talk to her about stuff, we get into an argument. But look how you talk though. Look how you talk. You gotta show me respect to give respect. Give respect. I don't talk though. Do I cuss at you and talk? Yes, you do. Don't sit in front of these people and act like you don't do that. No, I do not. This is what you do. This is what you do. This is what you do. When you're dead and gone, I'm still gonna be your mom. All right, that's cool. You get mad about stuff I tell you 'cause it's the truth. What? What's the truth? 'Cause everything I tell you is the truth. What you doing is the truth. What did you mean, what's the truth? You said I make you feel like I'm a bad mom. Like, I just make— don't make me feel like I'm a bad mom. I never said you was a bad mom. What are you talking about, mom? What are you talking about? The choice is different.

What?

Like what? Like what? You talking about a fight? You just got to fighting them all the time. Y'all showed me how to fight. You're a fighter too, though. You know how many fights you done got into? You don't got an excuse. But you know how many fights you done got into? That's how I was raised, though. You stay here and say that's not how I was raised, but that was how I was raised. No, abuse is not how I was raised. That was how I was raised. To defend yourself. But it wasn't your fight though. The fight you just got into last week, well, month or whatever, it wasn't your fight. Okay, Mom.

Kevarra, you said your mother is capping on something. What is she capping on?

She's trying to just make it seem like I just be into stuff. I don't even do nothing for real. I've been in the house since I've had my baby. The night that they bust my window, they followed me home and I didn't know that they followed me home. I went in the house and laid down and went to sleep. So the way my car is parked, my mama parks in the driveway. So I have to move out the way for her to come out the door. I was in the garage. So she was in the garage. So she's backing out, so I have to get my car back out. So I see The glass on the seat and I'm like, dang. I'm like, man, they done bust my damn window. I said that. So my mom and you, we had an argument before you went to work. You like, you getting into all that shit. I'm not paying for your fucking window. All that. I'm sorry. That's what you said. You knew that they busted my window. Why didn't you give me insurance information then? You never gave me no insurance information. Why wasn't my window fixed? Why wasn't my window fixed? Because you decided to go and fight 'cause they posted it on social media where they was at. You decided to go fight. Told me to. Kavon, why is you? I'm done 'cause she a fucking liar, bro. I'm done with this shit. Deadass, I'm deadass, she a fucking liar, bro. Like bro, I'm ready to go. I'm ready to go. I'm ready to go. She's a fucking liar. I'm ready to go. No, like she's, why are you lying? Like why the fuck are you lying?

Yeah, so you feel from your perspective this is what you were taught to do as a child?

Yeah, it's what they instilled in me. Everybody in my family fighters, everybody fighters. Her mama a fighter. So now you getting in front of these folks, you act like it's such a big problem. Nah, all right, whatever, Ma.

So your mother's not on probation, you're on probation. So don't you see that the stakes are different for you?

Yeah, but at the same time, Karamo, I don't be doing nothing though. And that's what makes me mad 'cause I don't be doing nothing. I sit in my house, I mind my business, I do what I, you know what I'm saying? I stay out of her way. I don't even go to her house like that. You feel what I'm saying? I stay away so we can keep a good relationship. Because if we are around each other for a long time, we're gonna get into it.

Got it. So how long ago was this last fight she's talking about? Was this?

This was, she was a month ago. She's not lying about that.

It was a month ago. So within the time, 'cause how old is your child?

He's 3. He'll be 3 next month.

3. So within, since your child's been around, I get it, you've been home, but you're saying, so in that 3 years, you've only gotten into one fight?

Yeah.

One fight in 3 years?

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, since I had him, yeah, yeah, one fight, yeah.

Okay, and so what happened with CPS?

She called me and said, "Somebody called CPS on you." And I asked her, was she the one that did it? And she got mad at me because who else was gonna call on me?

I heard when you were young and you went to jail, she was there every day for you.

She was, I'm not saying she wasn't though, she was.

And does she help take care of your child now?

Yeah, of course.

So if she helps take care of your child, why would you think she was stealing?

But I don't think, because it's like she say, Certain stuff sometimes that'll rub me the wrong way. Like, we was out of town one time, we was on a family trip, she tried to laugh it off. She told me, "You might as well just give us custody of him." But I know my mom, she was dead serious. And I never gave you no reason to even feel like that. And every time, when me and her get into it, "That's why I'm calling Child Protective Services on you." Every time something happens with me or I get into something, they threaten me with Child Protective Services.

So you do believe she called?

To a certain extent, yeah. Yeah, I do.

So there's a part of you that has doubt?

There's a part of me that has doubt, but a part 'cause I don't want to believe that. But I've always felt like to a certain extent, yes, she probably tried to do that to scare me, try to scare me straight or whatever, you know what I'm saying? But other than that, I just don't understand why she would, like, I don't know, 'cause I'm not a bad mom. Like, this is what I'm saying.

I take care of my child. Would you mind coming back out there so we can all talk?

Yeah.

Thank you. And then, 'cause I want to hear more about this. Okay. I appreciate you opening up. Uh-huh. So you could hear backstage. So she feels as if maybe there was a point where you called CPS. Was there something else involved?

Yeah, the first incident when CPS was contacted, Kavari was pregnant or she had just had the baby. She had marijuana or something in her system and she told me about that. So because of that, they said that they were gonna be coming and checking for 5 days.

Did you know about that?

Yeah, 'cause she told me. They only came one time and then they left.

Got it.

The second time that it was said to her, when she was staying with us and she was getting ready to leave, she was mad at us and she got ready to leave and my husband said, "Think about what you're doing. It's not just you. You got your baby to think about." I got in the car, he's talking about, "Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna call child protective services on you." And then she said, "No, don't do that, don't do that." 'Cause he, first of all, I would never take my grandson from her 'cause I know how he loves Kevon and Kevon loves him. I'm not gonna even put my grandson in the system like that. I would never do that. Your lifestyle and the stuff you do, you need to worry about that.

Can you trust your mother right now? Because I see there's layers of the anger that you have.

She know I ain't scared of my mother.

Can you believe your mother right now when she says she doesn't?

I've always thought that. But if I did, why would I be ashamed to tell you that?

She just said here, I would not want to put my grandbaby in this situation.

And I'm not going to. I would never do that.

You can't trust that?

No.

Why can't you trust that?

No. Because I really feel like they want to take my son from me. I really feel like that. But Karamo, you just made yourself right though. I genuinely feel like that. Do you really think it's a fight if I wanted to try to take your baby from you? What you mean? Do you think it's a fight? You're not taking nothing from me. If I wanted to really try to take him from you, do you think that would be hard? You can't even try 'cause that's not gonna happen. 'Cause that's not in me. I wouldn't do that to you though.

Do you appreciate the help from your mom?

I definitely, 100%.

100%.

No, she don't. I do.

Can you believe her when she said that she does appreciate it?

I believe that she does, but sometimes I don't.

Okay.

I really do. I think she takes it for granted. She feel like I speak my mind. If I was a yes man to her, she would feel like I appreciate everything she said. But look how she talks though. Look how she talks. Because I'm so mad right now. I'm mad. I've been mad for years, okay? I've been mad as hell for a long time. And nobody listens to me, bro. Nobody listens to me. Mad for what? Nobody. What you mean mad for what? What do you mean mad for what, Mom? Like, what are you really saying? Like, what are you really saying? Like, you've been acting different though. Like, what are you talking about? You're always mad. You do not listen to me. I done been raped and all type of shit. Do you know that? No, you don't. See? You don't. I didn't know that. You don't know. Exactly. Because it's you. I can't talk to you, Mom.

Why?

I can't. This is the only time I can talk to you. Look how you're breaking down.

Right now.

Come on, you need to stop.

I gotta back up, I gotta back up.

You need to stop.

Because I see the breakdown in this communication here. One note that I wrote down, and I wanna show you this, this is literally earlier before your daughter came out here. I said, "Doesn't seem like she likes to communicate with her mom." And then I did not know any of this and it just said out of her mouth, "I don't feel like she listens to me." And when she said that and when she described a moment where her body was violated. You passed right over that. She's just screaming out. That's all she's doing.

I know that.

I would like you just to be an empathetic listener.

Okay.

Don't say anything. And Cavari, I want you to be able to say anything that you want to say and not be interrupted. Tell your mom what you want from her.

I just, I mean, I just want my friend back. Like, you never listen to nothing I say. Like, I've been through so much that I have never told you about. Like, because I know you're very judgmental, Mom. Like, you're judgmental as hell and I don't like that. It's like, and who else did I trust besides you?

You, Mom.

I love you, Mom. Why, you know I love you, Mom, and I appreciate everything you do for me. But like, damn, bro, I am tired of being so mad all the time, Mom. I'm mad every day. I'm tired. I am, Mom. Like, just listen to me. Like, that's it, Mom. Like, that's it. I just want to be a mom to my son and be your daughter. That's it, Mom. I'm not doing nothing else. I'm not trying to hurt you. I'm not trying to put you through nothing else. Like, I just want to be what you think that I am, because I'm that, Mom. I'm not that person I'm not, like I'm not. I just wanna be a good mom to my child and show you that I can be.

You just sat there and listened. You did a good job because sometimes that's all our kids need is just to be able just to sit there and not say something. And even though we see the antics and the emotion, it's what she needs. And you did a great job. And I'm not questioning you as a mother. When you said you showed up every Saturday, but there's also something you said early on that I also wrote down as you said, When this happened, I was embarrassed and I shut people out because I was embarrassed. And as much as we want to pretend, those feelings stick with us. And so when she's acting out, those feelings are triggered whether you know it or not. And she's saying, "I need to get this out so I can heal." So you gotta work on not feeling embarrassed by your daughter.

Right.

Can you say, "I'm not embarrassed by you anymore"?

I'm not embarrassed by you anymore.

What's going on in your mind? What are you thinking?

I don't want her to feel like that. I want her to be able to talk to me and tell— I want her to be able to— I don't want her to think that I'm not there to protect her, because I know that I'm all that she has. And I don't want you to think that I would take your baby. I would never do that to hurt you, because I know that's somebody that loves you regardless of what he sees, no flaws in you. I would never do that to you. I don't want you to think that I would do that. I would never do that to you. I miss you too as a daughter, but I want, I just don't like the people that you be around. I don't like the choices that you make and I don't want you to expose your baby to that. I don't want him to have to go through that.

She's trying to grow and it's hard. I'm sure there's a lot that plays into like, I'm trying to grow, I'm trying to be better. I'm trying. Like you just said in 3 years since you had the baby, you've only been in one fight.

Yeah.

That's growth.

Yeah.

I see that growth. I see your growth.

Do you see her growth?

But at the same rate, as much as I can acknowledge that, can you acknowledge that there is some, a little bit more growth you gotta do?

Yeah, like I'm not like doubting that. Like I know I need to grow a lot more. Like it is still a lot that I need to grow.

Can you tell your mom that?

Yeah, like, Mom, I know that, you know? Like I know I need to grow more, but it's just like, don't keep throwing the old stuff I did in my face. Like, because that's just pulling me back me back even further, you know? Like, and I'm really trying, Ma, you know I am. Let me do that. First of all, I love you. If this building catch on fire, this would be the first one I save. Let me say that first. I said that too. This is my child and I love her. I love you, I wouldn't let her. And for you, for you, we in the right spot for me to talk to you. Yes, I deal with a lot of anger issues because it didn't start with me. It didn't. It didn't start with me. So why is it with your children though? Your children used to hate your children. She got her time to talk. You said you hate your children, though. Where did that come from? I would never stand on my two feet and tell my kids I hate them. She had her time to talk.

Let me hear your perspective.

Let me speak.

Yes, I would love to hear your perspective.

I'm talking to him right now. Okay, he don't have nothing to do with me and your relationship. He shouldn't even stood up, 'cause he already know the issue. What's the issue? First off, you know what? What's the issue? I'm gonna tell you something. You know why I'm angry? Because I had them, I pushed them out. So we owe you something? You owe me to do right. I'm doing right. I'm not in jail. I'm not in jail. I'm not doing drugs. I'm doing shit right. You do drugs. I'm doing shit right now. She stole my car as an adult.

Oh my God.

I know you. I just saw you do that. Stole my car as an adult. What have you done? Accountability. Accountability.

Let me do this because the thing is, if you really want my help, I have to hear her side. So please tell me your side.

First of all, I got 6 girls and 1 son. Split me down in 6 pieces, I'll be good, okay? But when you have children, I'm out there fighting battles that's not mine. 'Cause you gotta hang with your children.

Would you hush?

That's your problem.

That's your problem.

She got one spanking all her life, and when she stole my car, that was the second one. I never stole nobody's car. At 20-something years old. I should've been whooping her. You're very disrespectful. How you expect me to respect you when you won't let me? Never, Del. Never. I've been to prison. I've been to prison 3 times. Ask them why.

Why?

Y'all keep me in some shit. You've been in prison before we was even grown. Y'all keep me in some shit. Well, that was from my sister the first time. Okay, come on now. But the second time and the third time, these damn kids out there fighting everybody. Particularly her. So now I'm running around with a gun trying to kill everybody about you. 'Cause you don't know how to act and you don't know how to respond. There's no exception when guys are beating you up. Oh my God, why are you hanging with me? With your kids anyway, Mr. Karamo. Grow up. The police let me come through. They were at the bar fighting.

Mhm.

Oh my God, because your daughter that's on drugs jumped on you and I tried to help you. Listen, let's be real. She don't, she don't want to see that problem. You feel entitled, bro. I feel entitled?

How?

How? How I feel entitled? I don't know, you tell me how.

I don't know if you noticed, I, I sat quiet here for a very for a specific reason because I can tell, I understand, I see a lot of the patterns from your own past, the things I'm listening to, language of protection. I'm listening to what you've been doing because I wanna make sure you know that I'm hearing you first of all and that I see you.

I gotta listen.

And so I wanted to make sure that you had a point where you didn't feel like you had to defend, defend, defend, that you could just say, this is my piece, this is my story. So do you, you can, you can, acknowledge that you have a temper?

Absolutely.

I want to because now that I've heard you, I think I can navigate this better with you and Malika. But I have to ask you, if I bring her back out, would you be able to do it?

I ain't finna do nothing to my child.

I know you not.

I just want her to see her, I want her to self-reflect. Mm-hmm. I'm not going for anything no more.

So are you ready to repair your relationship with her if I can help that?

If you can. But see, I ain't on drugs no more. It's a difference. See, I'm gonna tell you, when you on drugs, you think stupid.

But you're clear now.

I'm clear now. And see, I'm gonna tell you something, and this is God's honest truth. You can't make me shame 'cause I do that enough for myself. Understand me? So ain't no child gonna come in my life and grow up, and I watch you grow up, I know your fears, I know what you courageous in, I know what you capable of doing to make me feel like garbage. You can't do that. Because I am who I am.

Okay.

And I admit every wrong that I've done.

Before I bring your daughter back out here, can I ask you for one thing?

I already know.

Just one thing. Yeah. What's one thing?

I ain't finna do that.

The thing I'm gonna ask you for is can I give you a hug?

Oh yeah, you awesome as though.

Okay. That's what I wanted.

Thank you. Thank you. Oh, you smell so good.

Thank you.

Drink up your soup now. Got me all flushed and stuff.

All right, I'm gonna bring your daughter back out.

Well, what you wanna do about this situation? You wanna keep being mad or you wanna accept the fact that I'm your mom? I'm not mad. And I gotta accept the fact that you're my adult daughter. I'm not mad. I'm mad. Why are you mad?

What are you mad about? Express it.

I'm mad because after all the years you know me, how could you think I'm disloyal? I never thought you were disloyal. How could you count me out of my solidness, bro? No, Ma, it's just some things you do. You don't know how to handle things. I never was taught to handle it the right way. And this is why I'm trying to teach you. You know you can learn from your kids. Absolutely, I learn every day from y'all. I learn from myself. Sign. I'm trying to teach you it's more than places than Clearwater, Florida. I'm trying to teach you it's more than what you're doing on a day-to-day basis. You talk, Malika, you know I done been to places. But it's like, Mom, you, you are the best sign. I can't follow somebody that's acting blind. No, I'm not blind. I'm blind now. That's acting blind. But listen to me. I'm sweating and my nose running and my eyes watering, all kind of stuff.

We got you, we got you, we got you.

I still look good. You still look Okay, communication. Well, I don't know how to talk. Yes, you do. You been out here talking all day. I have? Yes. Why you brought me way up here? Because you need to get away from Florida, that's why.

Yeah, we—

but I don't like what's going on. Mom, I I told you I did what I had to do as a mother. You took her to the doctor for real? I got all her paperwork. I had to violate my daughter. They did, I gave the hospital your number. They say you did not answer.

So I think this one, 'cause that's a big piece of contention for y'all. I think when y'all get home, show her that her grandbaby is protected. That's what she just needs to know. Show her, say, look, I took her to the doctor, these are the things, because then that absolves this relationship and this, this chaos that y'all got going on there? I don't want this to stop just here.

It just got so fogged up. I need it to stop from when we go home. I don't want this just 'cause it's here. I want it to go with us. So I told them that.

Your mother, she said earlier that she only feels like you say you love her when you need something. You don't need anything right now. Can you tell your daughter I love her?

I love you. I love you too, Mom. I always loved you. Look, I'm gonna take it a step further. I'm done with all that violence I'm gonna take it a step further. I need you to know that I love you, okay? And it scares me when I have to worry about y'all. I can't sleep. I be worried about my children.

Okay, I get it.

Because I done been their mama and their daddy all they life.

Yeah, you've been a fighter your life. You just know how to protect.

I love you. I know you do. You just, we just got separated. About some things, but this, it feel good. This all feel good. It really do. Yeah, it really do. You know I don't mean no harm. I know. So why you get so, uh, hawk? Well, listen, because when it comes to my grandbaby, you didn't hear me.

Can you, can you—

I heard you.

So that's why I said you got to make sure that she knows your grandbaby's safe.

She, she know her grandma. She asks about her all the time. I know, I know. She knows. It's clarity. My poof.

And the communication has broken down, but I like that we're to start here. I do wanna do, can I offer this to you? A little therapy?

No. Yes. Yes.

Please. Because I think—

Sometimes you gotta stay, be angry a little bit.

No, no. I think that the anger—

I've been quiet all my life. They used to bully me. I'm gonna bring it all out. They used to beat me up growing up, y'all.

It ain't serving you no more.

You need professional help. But it don't bother me no more.

I know it don't.

And I need some therapy too.

You want that? Yes. 'Cause I can get that for you too. Yeah? I'll go.

You'll go?

You'll go.

You'll go. I have been working on a lot, so.

Well, she says she need therapy, so she's admitting to it. I think that the love is here and the fact that you all are willing to get the therapy, that you're willing to go.

And I wanted to tell you thank you. Karamo, because a lot of people brush issues off like this, so they'll get it together. Some things you gotta let other people— you gotta hear somebody else. You gotta hear. And I like how you did. I like just the pleasantness of it. And you got deep down, you got to it, like, take accountability.

I appreciate you.

I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I know you like, I ain't taking no accountability. I'm not. Everything they fault. But no, you know, I like how you said it to me. 'Cause some people, the way they say things, and that's a part of my problem too, is how you say things.

I get it.

And you use the same tone. You might be mad and still have the same tone.

Listen, I'm just happy that I could be here I'm happy to be here to support y'all. I really do think y'all are great, great, great women. And I think that there's just been a lot of pain here. I believe in y'all. Can y'all give it up for them for the work they just did?

I heard a lot of things that she was saying. If you notice the way she responds is like she's the mother, I'm the daughter. Apparently so. We live in the same household. No, no. The only thing you could do good is cook. You want to dictate everything I do, but tell these people the truth. That's why we're here today, is to get the truth. Stop trying to play victim. Okay, so they're clear. You're clearly seeing what's going on. So when I'm talking to her, she has a tendency to overtalk because you make everything about yourself. But you don't say nothing good for me to listen. Say something that makes sense, then maybe I'll listen. You don't— something that makes sense is we don't go bonding boyfriends out to have baby mother that you live with. That's none of your business though. And that only comes to you when it's convenient for you, for him. But you said something you don't know. He gave me my money back the same time, the same night he gave me my money. Hold on, hold on. Am I your mother or am I your sister? I don't know what you are. Let's not go there with Snoop. And I have to put a lock on my door because you come through. Do you remember you have a 15-year-old son? See, It's my turn to talk, correct? He sleeps in your room. But you see what's going on. I buy what I need. I buy the necessities. This is what I do. So that's why I throw my hands in. And at the end of the day, don't forget that I brought you into this world. You brought me into this world to make my life miserable. You brought me into this fucking world to make my life miserable. But you didn't say that. You have done nothing good but make my life a living hell. But you didn't say that when you were knocking on my door needing a place to lay your head. Did I refuse you? Can you still talk to me like I'm a piece of trash on the street? Space, like I said, I had to put a lock on my door. I have to say no more about it. Name one time I snooped in your room without asking you. No, no, name one time I snooped in your room without asking you. Do you have evidence? Yeah, when you have my stuff on, when I see stuff on that you got in my room. I ask you. I asked you. No, you don't. When do you ask me? Just before we came here. This is how I ask you. You went in my purse and took my perfume without asking me because that's the type of shit you do. And then wanna play victim. Oh, Mommy, this and that. I'm sad. And this is how you talk to your mother, right? This is how you talk to your mother? Is this how you guys talk to your mother? Exactly. At the end of the day, I'm still your mother. You have no respect.

So she feels— Done.

You're very rude and disrespectful. And what are you?

I gotta ask you something.

I literally died coming, bringing you into this world. That's what you don't know. Girls say they'll fake tears.

I gotta ask you something. She says that she feels like you didn't raise her. Do you feel like you raised her?

Oh, she's lying.

Okay.

They all say that when they don't get their way. All the time.

So she said you moved around a lot. Did you move around a lot?

Lie. No. Lie. I didn't move around a lot.

You didn't move around a lot?

I don't know what the hatred is. Because I've done nothing but try to love and be there for her. No, you tried to live through me. That's what you tried to do. She keeps saying I wanna be her, I wanna be her. If it wasn't for me, there would be no you. First and foremost, God. So act like a mama. No, no, no, no. Act like a mama and stop acting like the damn devil. You getting on my nerves. You sitting up here playing victim. Talk, if you gonna talk, say stuff that makes sense and tell the truth. I really don't have to say nothing because really people see what I'm dealing with already. They already see what I'm saying. But they don't see what I barely got out my front door. You're saying it all. They don't see what I barely got out my front door. You're saying it all. No, no, no, no.

Can I ask you a question? She said that she went from different homes, staying in different places.

She went to my mom's for the most part. My mother was babysitting her most of the time. So why she saying that she was never really in my house? She was so irresponsible. She let whoever it was to her. Take my hand and put it on a hot spatula. No, no, that's not how that happened. No.

What happened? What happened? Tell me what happened.

Where were you when I stopped? No, no, no, no, no. Where were you when I stopped breathing? Where were you when I stopped breathing? When my dad had to call the ambulance? Where were you when I stopped breathing? I remember that day. I passed out unconscious. Where were you? Probably with a nigga.

What I'm wanting is as she expresses her point of view, I also wanna hear your point of view. So she said now that there was times that she was hurt, that she was burnt and also suffocated. Where were you during those times from your point of view?

No, what happened was, we were in her father's house. It was actually her father's apartment. And one of his friends was over there and she kept trying to, she was just a baby, not baby baby, like, you know, she was walking, but you know how kids, When they're 2, 3, they're into everything. So she kept running to the kitchen as I was cooking. He was telling her, don't, stay out of the kitchen, it's hot, it's dangerous, it's dangerous, it's dangerous. This was something I didn't even expect, to be totally honest with you. I was totally pissed. I was ready to put this man in jail. It's not like I'm gonna sit up there and tell the man, yeah, burn my kid. Took her hand and he was like, feel this. And I guess he didn't realize it was still like burning, burning, burning hot. 'cause they had been off for a while. But look how calm you are telling this story. No, I took you to the hospital.

So from your opinion, I know your daughter came to you, but if it's been this cantankerous, why did you move in together?

Well, honestly, I was there first. She came in a time of need and I opened my door, which I would never not open my door.

How's it working together?

So, I mean, it's good as far as what is good. No, it ain't.

No, it ain't.

She the supervisor, don't do supervisor duties. This, this, this is why it's not. Let me tell you why. No, no, no, no, no. I'm the one that got you the job though. Remember, you were jobless. You had no money, no shoes, no clothes, no nothing. I got you the job though. So why can't you tell your— Don't forget about that part. When your employees mess up, who do you come to to correct them? Please stop pointing your finger in my face, 'cause at the end of the day, I'm still your mother. Then be a mother.

What did you want from your mom back then that that you felt like you didn't get?

Support.

In what way?

Every way that a mother could be. 'Cause she was not there as she's talking about. I might have could call her for some advice, but Mom, where were you physically? Where was that love? Like, I'm so damaged by that. I didn't have mommy. You were always somewhere, just cared about yourself. Okay, but as you can clearly see, she never went hungry. None of us never went hungry. You know what I mean? I mean, I'm just saying since I'm so not a mother, I wasn't supportive and I wasn't there.

Did you give her, I get it, you've said you're telling me you've provided the basics. Do you feel like you gave her emotional support? The hugs, those things?

Yeah, I have, I have. I will admit I have.

Did you get that from your mom?

I have. Maybe recently. But as a child? I have, I have. No, you gave me more ass whoopings than hugs. Please.

What were you going through at that time in your life?

So what you're trying to say and lie is saying that I beat you is what you're saying? I mean, no, let's clear the air. Physically abusive? No, I'm saying— Emotionally abusive?

How many kids do you have?

3.

3.

She's my middle.

You're a middle child?

My oldest is 26. Got it. She just turned 26 last Christmas. In the middle of all the.

What was your family situation like back then? Were you alone?

Pretty much. I was in a boarding school. I was raised in a boarding school.

[Speaker:KARAMO] Okay. What I'm seeing here in this part is you clearly moved back in with your mom 'cause you do wanna bond with her. You do love your mom to some degree. I do believe that now at this point in your life, you're supporting her, you're giving her what she needs, but there's some part of your little girl that is hurting and we gotta get to the core of that. Otherwise, the disrespect that I do believe Even through the pain, there's a better way for you to communicate. As a beautiful woman, there's a more, a better way for you to communicate your pain than disrespecting your mom.

But I don't know how to communicate.

I hear that, I hear that.

Talk to me. I don't know how to communicate without yelling because that's all she does.

Got it, got it.

Saying things to me to slander me, tear me down as a woman. You're supposed to be my mother, my hero, my protector.

Do you still feel like you verbally abuse her now?

No.

Okay.

The thing with us now is we have a relationship.

There's some middle ground here that something is missing. If she's saying that there was stuff I missed, your little girl's crying right now. There's something that's going on that's hurting her. And I'm asking you as her mother, what do you think this is?

I mean, the only thing I can think about is like she said, I do, when they were younger, I used to get mad and yell and scream.

So we can acknowledge that. Yes. That for a young girl, maybe that felt like you don't hear me and that you're not emotionally supporting me.

Right.

Can you acknowledge that at least?

I can acknowledge that part. Thank you. Thank you. I can acknowledge that part. Thank you.

'Cause I'm trying to get you to a step. Is that a big first step for you?

Very big.

Has she ever acknowledged that?

No, because she makes everything about her.

But can you tell that to your daughter? If that's something that she's never heard, Can you at least acknowledge what you just said right now?

I can. I can start getting better with trying to work on listening more to you, how you feel, acknowledging your feelings as well, and start learning how to talk better with you.

Talk to your mom real quick for me, but as calm as you can, as respectful as you can.

Mom, I'm hurt. I've been through a lot, and you know what I've been through. I just need you. Times I'm down, I'm in a dark hole that I'm trying to pull myself out of every day. And as long as we fight and you yell and we yell at each other, we're never gonna get nowhere. And all I ask you is just to be there for me. And I'm trying to be there for you. And I do wanna let you know, like, I love you and I'm sorry. I want you more, way more than you'll ever imagine. Okay.

Well, you asked my unlock the phone investigator to unlock your mother's phone 'cause you wanna know if she has been sending inappropriate text messages to Tavaris, is your husband, right? Yeah. If she has ever secretly met with Tavaris when they visit New York, and if Virginia has been receiving calls from Tavaris via Link NYC. Okay, what you gonna do if you find out that she been doing it?

I'm done.

You done with both of them?

I'm done with both of them.

Okay. And what about if nothing's going on?

If nothing's going on, then what can I say but sorry?

Okay. Well, Glenda's mother Virginia is willing to prove she is innocent. So everyone please welcome Virginia to the show.

I'm through.

How you doing? Thank you for being here.

Nice meeting you.

So Virginia, I wanna ask you how you feel about what you heard?

It breaks my heart. It's very upsetting. 'cause none of it is true. I am a decent woman, I respect and I love my children. I would never disrespect any woman, not even my daughter, especially my daughter. I wasn't raised like that. I was raised to respect one another as you would like to be respected. A married man is some property that's already taken. You don't look at that. And I do not like leftovers. Okay? Yeah, I know, but nobody's saying that.

Hold on, were you, so I gotta ask you directly because this is Based on what she said, were you intimate with Tavaris 9 years ago?

Never ever in my life. I don't even conversate. I don't even look at him.

How's this affected your relationship with your daughter?

Oh, she is off the hook.

Yeah.

She is fabulous. I'm off the hook because for some reason— Well, let her talk. I mean, for some reason, sometimes every time I'm with him and me and you argue, you're gonna bring him into the conversation. I don't want this shit. I don't want that shit. Like, I mean— Can I answer that thing about her being in jail?

Yeah.

That happened, he was there 'cause she brought him to live where I was living and I gave her my private room. In my friend's house. She got into a situation. We were worried. I'm worried she's my daughter. He's worried 'cause that's her husband, her man. We both went to the precinct worried about her. Nothing else to find information. Now we go back, we're walking, talking how we're gonna, how, who's gonna, she's not gonna be seen. We gotta go to court. So he gotta walk that way. Well, I wanna walk 'cause I gotta walk.

Who do you think is feeding her lies?

Well, my mother's feeding her a lot of lies.

Your mother? Oh my gosh. What hurtful things does your daughter say to you?

Oh, she tells me, you nasty, you whore.

You say that to your mother?

You're a prostitute, you're a lowlife bitch. You think he wanna fuck you? He don't want you. Look at you, you old bitch.

You say all that?

Yes.

To your mother? You lying. When you were young, did you have a good relationship?

Okay. She hates me and she thinks I'm with her husband, which I never even looked at that.

Okay. Well, I think it's time to meet Tavaris. So everyone please welcome your husband to the show. Can you move over so he can sit over there? How you doing, man? Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Thank you for being here. Okay. Okay, so how do you feel about what you just heard?

Well, I feel that it's crazy because I feel I'm in between it.

Uh-huh. So what happened the night your wife was arrested?

Well, the night she was arrested, she told me to, when her mother come, to give her mother the keys and go to my mother house, and that's what I did.

Glenda, why did you move over right now?

No, because I want him to sit next to me. I don't want that next to me.

Why do you want a 9-6 next to him?

Well, she's accusing me.

So has Virginia ever said, I gotta ask you directly, has Virginia ever said or made inappropriate gestures towards you?

No, she did not.

Never?

Never.

Not once?

Not once.

So what happened to your phone last year?

After my phone last year, I mean, with this situation going on, she broke the phone and the only time we communicate is through a payphone.

Okay, why did you break it?

Because I don't trust it. Text him, I never text him.

I don't trust him. How do you communicate with people when you out then? Through a free phone. Okay, so why you feel like you caught in the middle? Because of the situation with her and her mother, what they going through, so she think— So why don't you just say clearly, since this is your woman, say it did not happen, dead it. Stop saying this, it did not happen. Why you gotta say that way?

I let my wife know that that I never looked at another in no type of way, no form, no fashion.

Does he say that to you?

I mean, he doesn't. It makes it seem like you don't really say much.

He doesn't say much.

He doesn't seem like it's real.

Got it. You're naturally a soft-spoken, sort of more timid male. Yeah. The reason I'm saying that is because that's part of the issue here, because you're not asserting your dominance to assure your wife that nothing happened. Right. And so in a sense you are caught in the middle because you could dead this. You could let your wife know immediately and forcefully, not in any way physically violent or anything in that way, but say, listen, I love you. If I was your man and I said this to you right now, listen, I love you. I am not messing with your mother. I'm not doing nothing with her. It's me and you. Stop this BS. Would that resonate with you?

I don't know.

Yes, it would. I know for a fact it would.

If it would've been from the get-go.

From the get-go, I get that, I understand, but now it's lingered for so long. Yeah. I get it. So I wanna know from you, when did you start having these trust issues?

From that day.

From that day? I think it started before then, but you know what we gotta solve right now is I do wanna unlock the phone because we need to find out if there is something here to start just getting that concrete.

Thank you. All right, it's time to unlock the phone.

Virginia, we unlocked your phone.

Yes. Lovely. I had to answer that 'cause I don't do nothing wrong.

Well, Glenda, you wanna know if your mother has been sending inappropriate text messages to your husband. Your mother says she is not. My locked phone investigator searched her texts and found that she's telling the truth. Glenda, you wanna know if your mother has ever secretly met up with your husband when they visit NYC. Your mother says she has not. My unlock the phone investigator searched her GPS and found that she's telling the truth. You want to know if your mother has been receiving calls from your husband via Link NYC. Your mother says she has not. My unlock the phone investigator searched her phone and found she's telling the truth. So from what we can see in searching She's not answering her phone, there is no communication.

I told you, that hurts, you know? You're saying sorry now, but if you continue, you're on your own, 'cause I want your love as a daughter, and I'm a mother, not a mother whatever, okay? I love you dearly, and you gotta give me more respect and stop degrading me in this space and talking all that shit. Same for you, and the same for you, and the same for me, and the same for you. So don't say that you don't respect me No, no, no, no. I do it to you because you disrespect me. Ain't all the time. You talking to me in front of everybody and staying quiet. You learn how to respect me, I respect you.

When you were a kid, you said y'all didn't have a good relationship.

It was, I mean, maybe till like the age of 13.

13.

'Cause she wanted to do what she wanted to do.

What happened at 13 from your perspective?

Okay, let's talk. I was on my own basically. No.

Why were you on your own?

She wanted to go.

What?

I really don't wanna go there.

You don't wanna go there? Yeah. Okay, so I'm gonna tell you. No, no, no. Now this is why I said we don't have to go there. But no, 'cause this is what I know. At the end of the day, yes, I see disrespect and you do deserve respect as her mother now. But what I do know to be true is that at 13, something happened where she felt disconnected from her relationship with her mother. And I don't know this story, so I'm not gonna come down on you, but what I do know is that I'm looking at two children who never got something from their mother that they needed at some point in their life. And I said you as well, because to hear your mother say things about you, I feel sorry for you as well. Your job is to do this as a parent. I'll leave the door open whenever you want. Whenever you want, I'm here. Whenever you want. You've been vindicated today that you're not sleeping with her husband.

Never.

I got that. So now that that is cleared, you will someday have to trust that your mother is willing to hear you. And I know that's hard for you because that's why all of this trust and things have come up because you don't feel like she would hear you and it's broken the trust at some point. I know it, I don't know what it is. And I'm not, you can make the faces. No, no, no, no, no, no, I'm just— Because I'm not coming down on you. Not on you, not on you, it's just that it's true. It's frustrating, I get it. But I'm just trying to tell y'all, since I can't go there, at some point the healing has to happen. At some point. And you have to believe that she's gonna be open and she's gonna be there to listen. And when that day happens, you can't say, "Ah, ah." You just gotta be patient and just be there. That's it. But I wish y'all the best of luck. I really do. Because I see a lot of pain and I wish that y'all had an opportunity to heal this. But your mother's right. The only thing that's gonna start this healing journey is you opening up. So when you're ready, she's willing. All right?

I want you to apologize for letting me down mentally when I was raped, 'cause you should've been there. Like, why? If I call on you, you should be there. And I want you to apologize for choking and almost killing me.

Okay. Can I see that list?

Yes, you can.

Thank you. Yeah. Well, listen, I wanna hear what your mother actually Ashley has to say about all this. So I wanna invite Ashley out so we can hear her side of the story. Everyone, welcome Ashley to the show.

Now you're saying all this stuff and have, yes, I used physical punishment to discipline you, but it was not the way you said it. And you didn't come to me when you got raped. I had to hear about it from a roundabout way. It don't matter how it got to you. I never denied that you got raped. It don't matter how it got to you. I got to you, you shouldn't have been trying to beat me up. I never choked you like you said. A lot of that other stuff is true. And I've always taken accountability. I want this to be my truth, hun. I want my mama beating me to be my truth. I never said what I did was okay. And you never apologized also. Because if I apologize, I don't want you to ever think that I'm apologizing because I have to. I want you to know— You don't have to. No, no, I'm not talking about that. I'm not saying that. I don't want you to think that I'm forcing myself to apologize. So what you're saying is you can't apologize? I don't want you to say she's only apologizing because it's the right thing to do, not because she wants to. At least you can say the words, like you haven't tried to say the word. I'd rather you force yourself to apologize than to not apologize. That means you don't care about my feelings. That means you're not thinking about me and how this is gonna help me in the future. I've never not acknowledged that I've messed up. I know I've messed up.

Can I ask you a question?

Yes.

Some of the things she made, she said that happened was that you beat her with a pipe. Was that true?

No. What the fuck?

You didn't beat her with a pipe?

Why is you lying? You beat me with that white pipe because you thought I was outside. You know which boy I'm talking about. If I did, I apologize, but I don't remember that. I never said that.

Did you make her kneel on rice?

No. No.

Did you choke her?

No. No. I have beat her to the point where— No. I have used too much physical force. We live in two different lives. I guess so, you also say that I should be with this person and that person. You also say I should live a different lifestyle than what I wanna live. I don't care what lifestyle you live, this is your life. I just care how you treating me, that's what I'm worried about. I'm worried about me. And you live your life, I live mine.

You're saying that the pipe didn't happen, the rice didn't happen, the choking didn't happen, but you were arrested.

I've used other—

A felony physically for abusing a child.

That was with a different thing. That was with an extension cord, and I do acknowledge that. When I was growing up, I was abused, and so— I'm not me at 19. If I get pregnant right now, I'm not taking a pipe to my child. I'm not taking a extension cord to my child. I mean, you can say you did the best you could do, but the best is the worst in this case. And I would never deny that. You haven't accepted that. You haven't taken accountability. No, you haven't said I'm sorry. You say I know I didn't do wrong, but you haven't said I'm sorry. No, I never said I didn't do wrong. I did wrong.

You still on probation?

Yes, until next year.

How did the police get involved?

She reported, like she said, she reported it to a school official and then CPS got involved and the police got involved. CPS ended up dropping the case, but then police came in. Captured and picked it up. And it was 20 days that I served, not 30. And that's rape. No, I'm saying that it was not. I'm saying that they didn't give as much justification as you wanted is what I'm saying.

How did you react when she was raped?

Obviously, I was upset that it happened to her, but I felt like I had ruined our relationship so much to where she didn't wanna come to me. She had to go to other people. But when you found out, you should have been like, hey, let's figure this out. Not, not, not, not, not. You better get out that car before I get my friends over here to make it happen. No, that first time, I said, let's go get the kit done. I said— No, you didn't. You took a damn Uber. You lifted somebody. No, because you didn't wanna do it. You didn't know I were out. I had canceled that ride. No, you didn't. You said, I gotta go somewhere. Somebody's on my phone. I gotta go pick somebody up. I said— No, you didn't. I did, because you didn't wanna go. No, you— Is she living on Mars? They said that. They said I'mma take my daughter. I tried. No, you didn't. Yes, I did. You didn't try hard enough if I wasn't in your car. Because you didn't want to go. You didn't try hard enough. No, you didn't. Oh my God, I'mma curse you.

No, you didn't.

You said you wanted to go with the other sister. No, no, no. You said, "I will take her home." You didn't want me there. It doesn't matter if I want you there, I needed you there. I didn't want you to be forced to be in my car. I needed you there. You should have let me. I needed you. You should have said, you should have not denied me. I'm 15, I don't know what I need. You know what I need. No, I don't, which is why I said a relationship. You should have been there. I couldn't because you didn't want me to. You're crazy.

Ashley, can I ask you a question? Can I ask you a question?

Yes.

Do you want a relationship with her?

Yes, I do.

You do? Take a seat for me, take a seat for me. Talk to me.

It's difficult because, and it's not her fault. None of this is her fault, it's my fault and I get that. And I've never denied that any of this is my fault. But I do want a relationship with her. It's just I don't approach because I don't know, I don't wanna push and then her run away. I want to come on her time.

Okay, so I gotta tell you something. As she's backstage taking a break, I saw breakdowns, I saw everything that's going on here. So I'm gonna first acknowledge because I think it's always important. I understand I just even through the context of what you shared right here, a bit of your past. You were abused and you were often rejected. The way that she was abused is, was the way you were probably treated. Okay. And now you also have a strained family relationship with your family because every time you get vocal about anything that happened to you, people think you're causing drama and a mess and you get rejected again. I picked it all up. Now I'm not saying that to excuse anything you've ever done to this child.

No, I'm not.

But what I'm trying to let you see is that I acknowledge what you've been through because I'm sure you go through your entire life only being the bad guy. And in the situation, of course, for your daughter, you have done horrible things. But people forget that things happen to people in which and why in turn they do these things. Again, not an excuse.

No.

But I see it. But what I want you to understand is the same way you went through things and you tell me, I can hear in the language, well, I didn't wanna do this because, You were gonna reject me. I didn't want you to have to. The same way you rejected, dismissed, is the same way your daughter is feeling rejected and dismissed. She's consistently feeling rejected. I even watched on this stage, every time she said something that was a memory for hers, you dispute it. You dispute it. And I'm sure that's a lifetime of you having to defend yourself. But in this case right now, if you really want a relationship with this young woman, if you really feel like you're doing the work to show her, if you really feel like maybe one day I can show her that I'm so sorry for what I did to her as a mother, that I can really show her, you gotta stop disputing what she says. How do you feel about what I'm saying?

I receive it.

You're losing your daughter, you're losing any respect she would have from you. And if she says, "I need you to say yes, this happened." I understand. I want your daughter to come back out here. Can we get her back out here? I see tears in your eyes. What's going on? What's going on? What was making you cry back there? I want to hear her right now.

I like low-key feel like you never really liked me or loved me. Like, I really— like, there's no way you could do all that and then be like, I love her. I love her, but let me beat her. Like, let me lie and say I didn't beat her. Like—

So your daughter has been brave enough to write a list of what she needs, okay? And when she says these things to you, I need you to hear them, acknowledge it, don't dispute it, and give her what she needs. Just speak from your heart. Don't be afraid that she's going to reject or anything. She's in a space right now where there's somebody who can help her. Help y'all navigate this conversation.

I want you to take accountability and apologize for beating me and treating me less than you should ever treat your child. I want you to apologize for letting me down mentally when I was raped, for not being there, for not holding my hand, for not hugging me, for not saying it's going to be okay, we going to get through this. I want you to apologize for not being that mother figure when I got raped all them times. I want you to apologize for choking me, even though you say you don't remember it. I remember it. I remember it like it was yesterday. You made me feel less than a human, like— I'm sorry, Shayla. I don't know what else to say other than to say I'm sorry. All I can say is I'm sorry and I'm trying to learn. I wanna learn. So if there is anything else, I'm open to listening. I can't work towards a better relationship on all fronts if I don't know what it is that's in you that you need to say to me. I'm saying I don't know what because I—

This is foreign.

Yeah.

This is new. But you continue to be you because who you are with your strength, your intelligence, I know there's gonna be some young woman out here watching this who's gonna be inspired by you.

Samaria is so disrespectful. She puts our business out on Facebook whether it's the truth or a lie. Samaria has no respect for her family. Our father passed away March 24th. I did not want her at the funeral at all. Then she had the nerve to take a picture while he was laying in his casket, posted him all on social media, and started this whole chaos on Facebook. I told my sister it couldn't be me. Daughter or not, I'm not going to let a child disrespect me the way that Samaria disrespects her mom. And I don't approve of it. Okay, for one, she need to shut the fuck up. That's not how it is. Okay, so it's like, for one, I already, like she said about my granddad, that's why I really don't fuck with my family. When my granddad died, they didn't call me down to tell me that he had passed. None of that, I had to find out from my brother. I missed his body viewing because y'all didn't call me, y'all didn't tell me nothing about it. And still to this day, I didn't get to view his body till like the funeral day. So I don't know how she gonna say I took pictures.

There have been some text exchange between you and that same aunt "I'm up. Y'all got something to eat like for me to take with me like noodles or anything, but I'm gonna need a bowl." This is you texting your aunt?

Yeah, 'cause I used to go, I used to work and I needed that for work.

You're not allowed back in my house at all, not for a package delivery or to see my kids or if you're hungry. Okay, and how long ago was this?

This was like the other month ago. This was when my granddad died, March 24th.

Yes, March 24th. So, okay, I get your point of view.

And then they, I don't like that.

But I wanna ask you this, what do you want from me? What do you want from your mom today?

I want for her to understand me. I want for her to talk to me better. The way she's talking to me like bitch, hoe, I don't want her doing all that 'cause I'm a bitch and hoe you right back. Like I'm gonna say the same shit to you so it's gonna forever be conflict. We gotta learn to fix the problem. And another thing, like she be calling me ugly. I don't think she know that that make me feel some type of way. Like I be feeling like that shit true. I feel like she don't love me, but that's why we here.

Okay, I get that.

It's all about making this shit better.

Okay. Well, let's see what Shawnta has to say about this situation. Everyone, please welcome Shatta to the show.

Hey, Karamo.

Hi, nice to meet you. So I gotta ask you, how do you feel about everything that was just said?

So Samaria, what we're not gonna do is sit here for the Karamo Show and tell lies.

What lies though?

So that we can get the proper help for you. The first thing is you're very disrespectful.

Yes, I am.

You don't know how to talk to me as a child. I'm your mother. You're not my mother. You're at the age of 18. That makes you partways grown, not all the way grown. As long as you in my house, there are rules to follow in my house. But I barely be in the fucking house. As long as you're in my house. I barely be in the house. There are rules in my house. You don't let me in the house. When you're there. Okay, when I'm not. Yes, I put you out and it's a reason for me putting you out. You use profanity towards me. You don't know how to talk to me. Not only that, don't you have to be on a regular though? You have this regular, not just when we're arguing, when we're going through it. You have manic behaviors to where you destroy property. I do not have to tolerate that from you. Do I have many behaviors? Because baby, I'm old school raised, you understand me? Old school. I could stand up now. If my mama look at me, she could line me up with her eyes and me and my sister get in line. You do not do that. You go word for word with me. Because you talk. And you weren't raised like that. It's the way you talk though. It's the way you talk. You go word for word. Like how you talking right now? You don't talk like that at home. That's right. But I'm not gonna use any profanity on this show, but Karamo, I do. Yeah, like bitch hoe bitch. Me as a character, if I call her bitches. Bitches, what you mean? Hoes, I'm just being honest with you. That's what I do in the heat of the moment. But understand, it's only after she done did it first. You get what I'm saying?

So were you aware that your daughter was selling her body at 15?

Yes. 2023.

Okay.

Yeah.

The only reason I say that is because I know she's an adult now, but I wanna make sure anybody else at home that's aware, because this is my background, this is the field I worked in, you know that if any social service agency would've found that out, you would have been arrested immediately for child neglect. And child abuse. I want you to know that.

That's point blank.

Yes. Point blank.

So at the age of 17, since we speaking on that, I did have a case open against me.

When she was on the streets, were you able to ever find her? Like those times?

Yes, it been numerous of times Samaria have called me. She told me she was hungry, she needed to wash her clothes. When she asked me for things, if I have it, I give it. And you barely have it.

Mom, I wanna ask you something. I wanna ask you something. What do you want to happen today?

I want her to learn to respect. It ain't like I'm making up a story behind her. Everybody goes through the same thing.

She's admitted that she's been disrespectful. She's admitted that she's done these things. She says she's done these things. What's making you emotional right now?

Because it's like, I don't like seeing my family cry. Everybody know I love the shit outta them. I would never do nothing to like make them upset. I don't try to make them upset. Shit that I go through that they don't listen to, they don't care about. And that's what make me upset and that's what make me rebel. Maybe if you cared, maybe if you asked, maybe if you, what you call it, if you even tried to effort, like effort, effort, like you don't put in no effort, no supporting me, none of that. And then you sitting up here on the show wanna cry, cry about respect for what?

So do you want a relationship with your daughter?

I do want a relationship with her. Yes, I do.

You do. And you don't believe that?

I mean, it's hard to believe.

Your daughter says something and this is real. She said, I want you to understand what I've been through, what I'm going through. Do you think that you ever take the time to really to understand what she's been through?

I have took the time out to understand her and what she goes through.

Yeah.

But to be honest with you, that's some fairy tale stuff.

Well, the things that we know for sure, and I'm just gonna start here and this is why I started with this. A young woman at 15, whether she thinks she's making a grown decision or not, doesn't understand her body.

Correct.

And understand the men who take advantage of her young mind.

Correct.

And regardless of the attitude or anything else, your little baby has had those situations and those situations are traumatic.

They are.

And if you've ever had anything traumatic, I know your father just passed, so you know what it is. You get, as much as you're grieving, you get angry at times, you get frustrated at times. And I just want you to put your place in a little girl's mind that is at 15. And yes, she probably had an attitude before, so I'm not trying to pretend like I didn't think she had an attitude before. But 15, she didn't understand that. And as much as she's nodding her head, tell your mama what you've been through.

Yeah, like, and it ain't even just like, it's like I done been through a lot of stuff. Like it's a lot of stuff you didn't tell me that I was supposed to know. You ain't never came to me and sat me down and told me how I was supposed to be. To be as a woman or anything like that. So it's a lot that men done seen me do they wasn't even supposed to see me do. So I never sat down and talked to you? The way you promote your body on social media?

No.

Yeah, all of that. We had conversations before then, but I'm saying the different little things that I done talked to you about, you gonna sit here and act like I never tried to come to you and talk to you about something? You come to me and say what you're saying now, I shouldn't be doing it. That's not talking to me understanding me that's telling me what I shouldn't be doing. Okay, gotcha. That's being, that's authority. That's what you're doing. So you don't take no responsibility for nothing you've done? Yes, I take responsibility. It's all my fault. I did it. Yeah.

I'm gonna tell you something.

I have no control over that.

I'm gonna tell you something. It's not your fault. You were a child that was trying to figure out how to survive in a world that no one prepared you for. And I'm not giving you, I'm not taking you away. This is not your fault and it also does not have to be your story. You know what I'm saying? Like I said, I really am. Your daughter's reaching out to the show for help and I really do appreciate you being vulnerable.

I just hope whatever we say on this stage, the resolution, we take it home with us and we live that same way day by day, listening to each other and respecting each other.

So for me to encourage her to commit to not using profanity you have to commit one thing, is that you'll allow the conversations to only be between y'all. Which means your sister, your mama, anybody else can't call and do what I heard, where they call her out her name, say anything. Because the thing is, is that a child against several adults, and even though y'all are just all saying what y'all gotta say, I've been in the family, I've seen it. But then it's like it's me against the world. So can you commit to having her back, to saying to everybody else, I'm not gonna let them talk about you. Can you tell him?

I'm gonna commit to this. I can't say I'm gonna not have them talk about you because I can't control anyone's actions. So I'll be lying to you if I sit here and say that. Oh no, no, you wouldn't. But I will not let them talk about you or to you around me.

So that's good. That's the perfect commitment. So you actually did what I wanted. Because the thing is that, yeah, we all adults, we all got our own mouth. But when you when you know they're around, you say, "No, not around my daughter." Correct. And that way, if your mother's protecting you from everybody else, can you not, when you get triggered, 'cause I know you're gonna be triggered, can you say, "You know what, I'm gonna show you how smart I am. I ain't gonna cuss at you." As long as she's keeping her commitment and protecting you.

Right.

Can you do that?

Yeah, as long as you keeping your commitment and protecting me, I'm gonna respect you. I won't be using profanity. I find every word in the dictionary before I use a cuss word.

Look at that.

All right.

Look at that. Hopefully this helped a little bit. One step to help y'all going forward.

That's right.

All right. Good luck to y'all. All right?

Thank you. Mama, I was in jail for 2 years, and I never got a letter from you or a call. Last year, I gave birth to my daughter, and you missed it? My first daughter? I'm on the phone expecting something. I'm not gonna see you. Is my mama hurt yet? She never— you never showed up. You never came. Mama, my childhood was traumatizing because you called me a bitch for years. You questioned my parenting and you've called CPS on me many times. Mom, you only call me when you need money or a favor. In high school, I OD'd on some of your muscle relaxers. You threw pill bottles and told me to kill myself the same day I got out the hospital. And I'll never forget it. Like, I still am confused if it was real or not. We needed you. We needed you. We needed you. And you weren't there. And you weren't there. And I'm here.

I saw you had reactions to almost everything they said. So you feel like a lot of it was lies?

I don't think it's lies. I think they twisted the shit. OK. OK, it's a lot of twisting. OK. Because I'm real, OK? Now, cashmere, I have. I can't lie. I would not lie. And I ain't really lie about nothing I said I do. That's why I asked y'all not to do it. Because one thing for sure and two things for certain, I'm going to keep it 1,000 with you, OK? Mm-hmm. Yes, OK? I was a regular parent, didn't come with a handbook. Any of y'all got a handbook to when y'all became a parent? 'Cause if y'all did, can I use it while y'all wowing and oohing? Real talk, Karamo. I was young, okay? I was in the world for maybe, I think almost 12 years. I was on drugs, okay? With that being said, ooh and wow, I became clean and sober on my own. Ain't nothing, a blue book, ain't no, The only blue book I picked up was the Bible.

I think it's time that we speak to your daughters and get their point of view on this.

Bring my beautiful babies out here.

So let's start with Selena. Selena, come on out for me.

Come on out, princess.

Hi, beautiful. Thank you for being here.

I love you. How you doing?

Hey, I'm good. Thank you for being here. So you said your mom didn't contact you while you were in jail? Did anyone contact you? No. No.

I sent letters home and I said something to my mom, my siblings, and I didn't hear anything back.

Okay. And what made you emotional backstage?

Because she sits on stage and you see her and you act like you don't know what's going on. I don't, baby. Mama, just listen. All I ask y'all every time, if it's something I done, if it's something I didn't do, tell me. Selena, this is what you do. You already know I don't, baby, I'm human. Whatever I didn't do, baby, I don't, I cannot change the past. All I can do, hold on, all I can do is start from here. There's no past, we're starting now. My baby's birthday is January 31st. Last year you did not show up. You were not there for her birth. Hold on, let's tell Karamo what you did when you had her. Did you contact me before I went to work? I said, "Call me in case you go—" Hold on, pumpkin. I said, "Let me know if you go in labor." I can't talk. She doesn't let you talk. No, did I ask you, "Contact me before if you go in labor so I won't go to work?" Mama, I was on the phone with you. You did not come. You said you had to work. You said you had to be at work. The only ones that was allowed in the labor and delivery, oh, let's find out, was her mother-in-law and her boyfriend. If you would've came, you would've got in that door.

You said that your mom didn't contact you while she was in jail.

Did you contact her while she was in jail? Can you contact anybody in jail? Can you write? Can you contact anybody in jail? Can you read and write? Can you call somebody in jail? Can you write them?

You can. They have something called JPay where you can contact.

Stop it, Karamo. You cannot call a jail and talk to nobody. You cannot call a jail and talk to nobody, baby.

They do, they have resources where you can call and write.

I can call the council and the welfare like I did because they had her somewhere where I didn't want her at. And I'm gonna say this, okay? I was lied to until my last court date of being in that courthouse about why you was in jail. But y'all lied to me the whole time. I didn't lie to you. So I was upset, y'all. My mom doesn't talk to me, so she doesn't know what's going on in my life. I graduated high school. I went to medical assistant school and I've never heard, "I'm proud of you." I'm a first-time mom at 27. I'm trying to be more respectful. No. 'Cause see, right now it looks like you're putting on. This is some real stuff. This is how I feel with you. Mama, that does not matter. It doesn't matter. You have to show a person that you love them. That's true. I got that. I got that.

Do you feel like your mother was there for you as a child?

No, she was gone. We had a lot of people in our house, so we had people there. She was at bingo. Your mom was at bingo? She was at bingo.

How often was your mom at bingo?

Bingo, it doesn't, it's not on Monday, so it's Tuesdays, Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays, 7:45 to 10, then 12 to 3:45. Only on Thursdays and Fridays? Exactly, and Sundays. So that's majority of the week. I'm gonna fly that shit 'cause many kids I got, I don't give a damn what nobody think. Okay, yes I did. Okay, there's two parents in the household. Okay, I need help. So my help was going to bingo.

Okay, what responsibilities did you take on as a child?

None. So she better not say it. None. I helped cook. You taught me a lot about cooking. I knew how to cut veggies. Oh, I taught you how to cook? Yes, you taught me a lot. You did, I heard you cooked. But I washed the clothes, I got everybody up for school. You're supposed to. You're supposed to. That's what big siblings do. I don't care nothing about what you got to say, who at. But if I can get some help, if I say, "Selena, get your sister up," I do, do, do, come on now. Y'all come on with that. Stop with this. Mama, I just want to say— TikTok, fashion show. Let me just— What's the other shit? Gramma Insta. We are here in flesh, in real reality. I love you. I cannot love you no more than I love you. Then you should listen. I listen, but I'mma give y'all that. I'mma give y'all that. I'mma give y'all that. Don't clap no more, please. Listen, I love you, baby. You have always been that special child that needed the most attention out of all 13 of us. I didn't get none. Selena, stop it. The only thing that you didn't get was the financial that you like and that you was getting from your daddy. Mama, it has nothing to do with money. No, it doesn't. I've never asked you for nothing. I don't ask you for nothing financially. I ask for you to be there for me. Tell me, how am I not there, baby? You didn't come when I was in I'm not coming to no jail because I asked you. The foolishness that happened did not happen. It was no foolishness. Now clap on that. Now you wanna be a movie star? You know I ain't going to jail for nobody. Did I ever go to jail for 'em? I'm being honest. What do I look like? That's bull. Mama, you are, you are arguing with your own abet— Kalene, you did some things that you shouldn't have done.

Everyone, I wanna bring out your other daughter. Everyone welcome Kajma to the show.

Hi, baby. Hey. You came out here to act a fool too? Mm-hmm. Because I'm going to react a fool with y'all. Y'all want to be a movie star? Y'all going to be a star today. Come on with it. Love these kids so much, Karamo. What do you think? Baby, I jump off top of your roof for them.

I'm telling you. What do you think of what you've heard so far?

I feel like that their relationship, I just— like, she didn't get the chance to build a relationship because she had so many kids. I feel like that about them. Up their relationship. And then, you know, she had a daddy that spoiled her, and he told her things about my mom that, you know, some things are true, but some things you don't tell a child about their mother, you feel me? To where she been a vendetta against my mama, to where— yeah, can I get a hand clap? Yeah, but it's still— I just backed away. Yeah, separated myself. More things that, you know, which I don't know, like things that she did with my other siblings, she didn't Can I ask you a question?

You did say in this tape that your mother called you the R word. How did that affect you?

Made me feel really like low self-esteem, made me feel lower than everybody. 'Til I had a daughter at 16, that's what made me step outta my shell and stuff like that and let me, you know, like still have, what is it called? Calm down, baby, relax. Like social anxiety and social awkwardness and stuff like that. Yes. Relax. I'm still trying to find myself from all of that. Like I've been through a lot.

And you told my producer that your mom threatens to take your kids away from you? Yes, like she had—

I'm gonna talk to her about that friend. Shout out Kat if I catch him and catch something. When I had my child at 16, she had been threatening me from my own home. So anytime CPS comes and stuff like that, I would think it's my mama and stuff like that. Like I have a trust problem with my mama because of things she say. I'm standing 10 toes down. If I feel like there's something going on with her child, her child, my other kids' child. Like, I grew up in the ECE. I was in ECE classes and stuff like that. So like, I have a problem controlling my emotions. So she could push me onto going off and stuff like that. Like, no, she's— we all have trouble, baby. You just never seen it. You've never seen it. Like, we all do because we all have it the same. You know, we never— my mama never did any drugs on us, around us, or nothing like that, but she was on drugs with us pregnant, so it causes her to have emotional problems.

I'm gonna go ahead and take a break really quickly.

We don't need no break, but listen.

We do, 'cause I'm the host of the show and that's what I say. We're gonna take a break really quick and we'll be right back. There's one more person we have to meet here, so everyone please welcome your other daughter, Shay, to the show.

You think I'm playing, baby? Hey. I love you. I love you more, baby.

Shay, how do you feel about what you just heard?

Well, I feel pretty good. I just feel like y'all should slow down and listen to each other talk, 'cause we definitely did not write Selena while she was in jail, and we didn't go up to the hospital, and then, So you're confirming you think that the things that she's saying actually are true?

Mm-hmm. Okay, so all of you feel like you didn't give her the support.

I also feel like what my mom said is true too. She did. I feel like my mom actually did her best and we don't really know how she was raised. She doesn't really talk about her childhood. So we should all just be like a little bit more understanding. Y'all wanna know my childhood? No, can I say one thing? And slow down and hear each other out. I definitely understand where you coming from from, because I remember those conversations that Daddy had with me in the car when I was a little girl. I don't want to talk about your dad. I know, but I'm saying that basically I know how you feel. I know how you feel. Like, it's— I'm a first-time mom and I have, um, I'm in a situation to where I'm not married. So this is what I feel like about their relationship. Her daddy, what— like, whatever she got against her daddy, that's what she has against her, because she listens listens to her daddy. She, you know, it's daddy's girl. That's what hurts because I never told what daddy did. I never told why Cherry was out there so long or how Cherry was on drugs, you know? But I'm so tired of hearing about what daddy said.

I gotta be real. I don't, and this is very rare for me, I don't know how to help you all. Yes, sir. I don't know how to help you all. I see confusion, I see negative traits, I see positive traits, I see manipulation, I see so much different things that I have no clarity of a baseline of where to start to help you all to get to a first step.

You are a liar. I'm not lying, you're lying. Since we moved to our new house, you've been cleaning my house? Yes. Yo, I said let it go. It was only me and Della. I'm not lying. I'm not even playing right now. You talking about producers that you said? I ain't even playing with you right now. I'm not lying, you are.

You talking about producers that your mom maces you?

Yeah, she maces me.

Do you, Miss Hill? You do?

Yes, sir. She put her hands on me. Did you hit me with a bottle? You're lying. You're— is you— oh my God. Oh my God. You ain't hit me in the head with a bottle. Like I said, I did it. Go get my phone. What happened? What's in the phone? Go get your phone. You really lying. Go get your phone. Did you hit me in my head? I did it.

You did not hit me in the head with a bottle.

No, I didn't. She literally come in my room and maces the whole room. It's literally orange shit on the wall. You literally threatened to mace me too. I'm not like, okay, so. I'll mace you again, you fucking hit me with a bottle. And what? What the fuck you talking about? I did not, bro. Do you ever lie on me? I'm not lying.

I'm gonna let you go back. Got me fucked up.

Wait, y'all. We can talk. No, you are lying. Yeah. I'm listening.

Wherever you get the shit so that you can see it. And then—

Bye to you too, bitch. You mad, yeah, you're mad. I ain't even talking to you.

You're mad. She says that her and your brother are survivors. That's what she constantly says. My producers told me you said. She always says they're survivors. Does she call you a survivor? No. She doesn't call you a survivor? Mm-mm. Got it, got it. See, like I said to you, I saw, I saw the real you. You're 14 years old and I know the behavior we all watch, we're seeing you mimic it. We heard how your mom talks to you, so we know why you talk this way. So I don't blame you and I don't think you're a bad person either. I actually think you're pretty intelligent. I actually think you're pretty responsible. I actually think a lot, I think very highly of you even with what I saw on this stage. Thank you. I do. I do believe you when you said that you have been taken care of a lot. When it feels like it's my responsibility, where I feel like I don't know how to have a time to just be a kid, when I feel like I'm always having to do something and it's been years compounded. To your mom, it might seem like, oh, you're lazy today. But for you it feels like I've always been doing this, right? Yes. Yeah. I know. Talk to me about what you're going through.

I'm going through a lot. It's just how my mom just don't understand me at all. And I'm like, talk to her. I keep trying to talk to her, but I just really can't talk to her.

What do you want her to know?

How I'm feeling when she's calling me out my name and stuff.

How do you feel?

She brings me down. She talks about me. Like she calls me like a whore. I'm not a whore. I know who I am. I don't know, but like.

[Speaker:KARAMO] Yeah, so it brings you down. If your mom's calling you out your name every minute, like yeah, it could bring you down and make you react a certain way. I totally understand. I'm not saying it's right. So hear me out. I'm not saying it's right, but I understand it. And I get it and I don't blame you. Does it feel nice to have somebody who understands you a little bit? Yes. Yeah, I can imagine. I talked to her. But can I ask you this? And this is where we gotta take accountability as adults, as parents. Would you talk to another little 14-year-old girl the way you talk to her? I do. You talk to other 14-year-old girls on the street like that?

If they saying something to me smart, is that what you mean? 'Cause I'm not just gonna come up to a 14-year-old girl and be mean to her. To her and we not gonna make it seem like she came outta me and I was talking to her like that. We not gonna make it seem like that either.

I'm not gonna make it seem like that.

Through overtime, this is somebody I gotta be around that'll look at me in a wheelchair, somebody'll tell me to stand on that. Oh, I forgot you can't. Oh, that's some kid shit to you?

That's still a kid. Oh. 'Cause you know kids say nasty things.

Oh, they do.

And unfortunately they say nasty things to their parents sometimes too.

Oh, I did not know that. I did not know a kid would say that to their mother.

Yeah, I've heard worse. That's crazy. That's a shame. It is a shame. It's a shame. But what I want you to understand is that it doesn't make it right. And I'm sorry she said it to you. Mm-hmm.

Because you've been through a lot. What I'm supposed to say? Oh baby, don't say that shit. What I'm supposed to say? I didn't say that. Tell me. No, I want you to tell me for real what I'm supposed to say. I really honestly wanna know. Like I really do.

I would tell you that matching her energy is not gonna help you. Are gonna help you to figure out what to say or to figure out how to make this relationship better.

So I'm just supposed to feel this small as a child? I don't think you should feel this small as a child. It's saying something to Nate.

But it's the communication.

Even if I'm telling her to leave me alone, get out my face, none of that works? I still just gotta be the bigger person?

Unfortunately.

Oh, can't do it.

Unfortunately. Can't do it. See, that's the breakdown. I know that you say that you and Quan are survivors. We are survivors. Do you feel like she's a survivor? Of course. Do you ever say that?

I told her she a superhero. That's enough to say. Superhero. I never said she was a survivor 'cause she ain't get shot. I ain't know I had to say that to her.

Okay, so hear me out. The problem is that her being 14 is also compounded by the trauma y'all both feel. You gotta understand that what she went through and what she's experiencing, she didn't understand. She didn't have the words. Just the same way you didn't have the words. And she's still trying to figure it out. What I do know for a fact is your daughter loves you and she wants the bond back with you.

And no, she don't.

If you can't believe that she wants to bond back with you, then there's not gonna be any work that I can do to help y'all because you gotta believe she wants to bond back. I asked your daughter one thing. If I could help your mother to understand the same grace you deserve, she deserves grace, would you come back out there and model not disrespecting your mom? And she gave me her word. See, this is where I get to see what you see. Either she's gonna do it or she won't.

All I'm saying is this little girl does not get asked for much but to go to school, clean up, be respectful. I get it. Don't get piercings. Don't dye your hair. I understand. And then we gotta go through all this. But that everything you just said. Your mother just telling me to clean up and you can look at her and say. But I need you to hear.

Stand on that. The issue you just said is a fort— See what you just did again? This is why I told you.

Oh, y'all never gonna forget that.

Well see, if you can't forget that, then y'all never gonna have a healthy relationship. I know.

You know, it's only a couple people that said some shit about this wheelchair that'll never get to say me again. Are y'all crazy?

Hold on, you just said the issue right there. There's a couple people who have said things about me in this wheelchair who would never get to see me again. And unfortunately, one of those people is your daughter. Mm-hmm. So that is something that you have to heal before I can heal the relationship with you and your daughter.

And I don't know how to do it, so I don't know.

If I get your daughter to apologize, can you receive that? To receive it? I guess. You guess? All right, so I talked to your mother and we talked about what we talked about. I shared her with what I said with you and I understand her feelings as well. I understand how she's feeling, but there's a comment that you made to your mother that still sticks with your mom. And I know when we feel hurt, we say things 'cause we on jab. Do you remember what you said to your mother? Mm-hmm. What was it?

You can't walk, something like that. But like I said it 'cause like she was coming at me crazy.

Hold on. Sorry. I understand, I understand. I heard you and I heard her. She came at you crazy, so you said something that you felt was gonna hurt her back. I know. Can you apologize to your mother for that comment and really mean it? I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I would never accept you because you fucking said that shit to me 'cause all I do is tell you to clean the shit up. Are you crazy? Well, first of all— That's all I tell you to do is clean up and go to school and you had the audacity to say some dumbass shit like that to me? Okay.

Oh, fuck you. So you came to me to help you to fix this, to heal the heartache that y'all got. And I saw the path to it. And I think we all understand the path to y'all healing it. But that path for y'all healing this relationship is going to start with you. And I'm gonna tell you that right now. If you want your relationship back with your daughter, it's gonna start with you. I'm gonna tell you this, as I told you before, I know there's a very smart, responsible young woman inside of you. I know it, I've seen it, I understand it. Even you taking the opportunity to model that behavior and try to like apologize and do it when I know you felt uncomfortable, I understand. I see who you are and I think that there's still even more room to grow. I know you don't need to steal. I know that you want a relationship with your mother. I know you do. You're gonna have to do some work too. And you're young right now, but you can start to learn that you can actually make different choices. But also you have to. Yeah, I know. Yeah. And you're not ready to. Is you gotta forgive these moments.