The 5 Most GASLIGHTING Grandmas on Karamo | KARAMO

You expect me to sit there, listen to you talk, and that's it, that's done? No, I'll give you your chance to talk, and when I talk, you overtalk me and change it to how you feel.

Okay, do you feel like that ever happens?

No. Okay, no. Yeah, I give her a chance to talk, she don't never give me a damn chance to talk. That's why I slapped the shit out of her when we was in the damn car.

So I'm sorry to hear that you feel you feel invisible in your own home. Tell me about that.

Well, it all started when I was 13, 14 years old. I started hanging with other kids. I used to wanna go out all the time, go to parties and everything. So my grandma doesn't like that. So she feel like my attitude, my ways and everything have changed since I've been hanging around different people.

Mm-hmm. But why does that make you feel like you're invisible?

Because every time I try to talk to her, she just ignore me. She walks away or she don't wanna hear anything that I have to say.

How long have you lived with your grandma?

Since I was 2, basically my whole life.

Okay.

Because I couldn't live with my parents. She always used to put men over her kids, so it's just like—

Your mom did? Your mom used to put men over you? Here you go. I'm sorry, love. It was hard growing up. Yeah, I understand. Do you have a relationship with your parents now?

Well, my mom had a brain aneurysm. Before she had that, it was like she really put men and women before us. So I never really had a bond with my mom. And then my dad, we don't talk at all.

Okay.

We have no relationship.

So your mother has a brain aneurysm. Where does she live?

With my grandmother.

Okay, so she's in the house with you?

Mm-hmm.

Okay. What do you and your grandma argue about the most?

We argue about just everything.

Mm-hmm, every little thing.

Yes.

So we spoke to your grandma about the situation. I wanna see what she had to say. Okay.

I've taken care of 7 of my grandbabies. My 17-year-old grandbaby, Patrice, is out of control. One of my neighbors called me at 2 o'clock in the morning and told me to come pick up my grandbaby Patrice. She's in the park babysitting herself. I said, "Well, where is her mother?" "She's at the club." So I went and picked the baby up at the age of 2 and she's been with me since. The problem is I spoil Patrice and I bought her everything she's ever wanted and she's never gotten a spanking. She don't seem to get me at all. I have a lot going on. She puts a lot on me. I have to help with my uncle, I have to help with my mom, and I have to help with her. And it's just like I don't get the chance to be a teenager like I wanna be. Mm.

What chores do you have to do around the house?

I have to help my mom I have to make sure they take their medicine. My mom, my uncle, sometimes her leg gets swollen up so I have to help her too. And it's just like I have chores that I have to do, I just don't do them because like I feel like I'm already doing enough as it is.

So you said you have to take care of your mom because of the brain aneurysm, you have to take care of her some of the time?

Yes.

'Cause she's not able to take care of herself.

Right.

So what other responsibilities do you miss out on?

I feel like since I'm only 17, I just wanna go out and hang with my friends. I just wanna go to malls, go to parties. It's just like being a teenager, I feel like I have to be home so much and make sure my uncle and my mother is tended to 'cause you can't leave them alone by themselves.

Have you tried to communicate this with your grandma?

She doesn't listen. She just feel like I just want my way all the time and it's not that. I just wanna go out sometimes. I don't wanna be in the house all the time.

Is grandma always tough with you?

She's very tough.

Very tough with you. Well, my producers are telling me right now that there was a point where you told them at one point you said, "I wish my grandma could die." Oh yes. What was so bad that happened that you wanted this woman to die?

It's just the stuff she be saying. Like she say some hurtful stuff. She said she hate me too.

Well, it's time to meet your grandma Patricia. Please everyone, please welcome Patricia to the show. Hi, Patricia, how you doing? Hi. Can I have a hug? Yes. Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you for having me.

Okay. So I just heard what your granddaughter had to say. Why, you say that it feels like you all hate each other.

Yes.

Why?

'Cause it's not like it used to be because when I ask her to do things, she'll just get this attitude, snap off. Stole things, walk out the door, go to her friend's house, don't answer her phone.

So tell me about when you think things took a turn in your relationship.

I think around about when she was 14 years old, she met some new friends, wanted to start hanging out, smoking weed and going to parties. And I think she's been slipping and drinking a little bit too.

Have you been?

Yes.

You have been.

And I didn't like it and didn't want her to do it, so, you know.

So why, how did you react seeing the Facebook post that you told us about?

I was hurt. She admitted that it was a, they was playing. It's not a joke to me. People get killed by things like that.

'Cause you holding onto guns?

Yeah. It was just for fun. It was just for fun. We were just having fun. We were just playing. That's no way to play.

That's no way to play.

Like normal teenagers do. That's no way to play. No. Not acceptable.

So why is it so hard for you to talk to Latrice?

She don't listen. When I start saying something, I don't want to hear that and stomp out. No, she don't give me the chance to talk. You talk over me all the time. I try to listen at you. This is what I get right here.

So do the arguments between you two ever get physical?

Oh yeah. She always throwing something at me. That's why I don't talk to her 'cause she's always hitting me. We can't never talk without a fight. Why do I always throw something at you? 'Cause you don't listen when I'm talking to you. You get mad at the things that I say, so you wanna hit me. I act just like my cousin.

So your cousin's in the audience today. Is this the cousin you're talking about? Okay. Your name is Tarkesha, right?

Yes.

How are you doing? I'm good. So you hear what's going on right now.

What are your thoughts? I'm the oldest of the 7. I know my grandma can be very difficult to deal with. I lived with her during my rebellious time. Grandma's not gonna take no disrespect from none of her grandbabies. None. And I raised 7. I feel like she's never wanted to hear anything that any of us had to say. Like, it's always my way or you can go. So it's always been kind of like hard. But me, I'm— me being oldest, I got the whoopings, I got the discipline, I got way more strict grandmother than Patrice. And so I rebelled a lot. Yes, yes you did. A lot of things that Patrice do is compared to my behavior with my fist.

Why did you rebel?

I had similar things going on as to Patrice. My parents, my mom didn't know how to be a mom. So everything that I learned, I learned from my grandmother. If she didn't know how to parent, she would say, well, call your grandmother. Call your grandmother, go to your grandmother. Like, so whenever I would feel like, when nobody cares about me, I would take it out on my grandmother. And I feel like there's a lot what me and Patrice have in common. We have a lot of built-up anger, but it's not a lot towards our grandmother, it's just—

Y'all angry.

Yeah, we're angry and she's the closest person to us. And so she's the person that we tend to take it out on.

So what are Patricia's responsibilities?

She don't have any responsibilities. I don't just make her do anything. I have responsibilities. I ask her to do some things. I don't ask her to do things. I have responsibilities. What is your responsibility? That's my mama, so I feel like I am obligated to help my mama. Like, that's my mama. My mama wasn't there for me, I'm gonna be there for her. That's just, I don't care what, that's my mama. So I'm gonna be there for my mom. Do you wash dishes? Do you clean the house? I'm not finna do all that if I'm taking care of my mom. If I'm helping you take care of my mom and my uncle, I'm not doing that. No, no, no, no, no, no, that's not true. She barely helps take care of her mama.

So why did you skip school for 23 days?

I always skip school.

You always skip school? Why?

I don't never get to go nowhere. And that's the thing, skipping school. I asked her, to do one thing for me. Please go to school and get your education. You can't get a good job when you're dropping out. Mm-hmm. Getting a GED, it make it seem like you're lazy. Mm-hmm. To me, that's how I feel. Mm-hmm. I want that high school diploma. I want her to be somebody.

Are you a senior right now? Are you gonna be able to graduate? What's your grades like?

They're good. I got A's, B's, and C's. I do my work online. I don't go to school, but I do my work.

Okay. So you finish your work? Mm-hmm. I gotta tell you, even me, when my kids started doing that whole online school thing, I was like, you need to be— I had a more traditional way of school that I looked at it a lot different. And so for me, I understand you gotta get your education, but she's saying that she's about to graduate and that her grades are good. So have you been accepted to colleges yet?

Yes.

You've been accepted?

To 3.

You've been accepted to 3 colleges?

Good job.

Good job.

What's your name? I haven't seen that. I haven't seen that.

You haven't seen that?

I told her. I told her. She told me, but I never seen the actual.

How do you feel knowing that she got into 3 universities?

I feel good. I'm proud of her. I'm proud, I love her, I want her to do good. I try to do the best I can to share my love with all of you. I want nothing but the best. If I leave this earth, I can say I did a good job.

Yeah.

I can say.

Yeah. But it's been hard.

It's been hard.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because anytime something happens, everyone always say, "Go to your grandma." I heard you say it. Everybody just say, "Go to your grandma." And instead of you being able to say no or have the choice to say no, you gotta take everything on. Yeah. What are you thinking about right now with your grandma saying that?

I love my grandma. I do. I love her to death, but it's just some things I just wanna be able to do. But I understand, Dad, she, I don't accept a lot of stuff.

Before I give your grandmother the piece of advice that I got for you, I think it'd be important that with you being so smart and acknowledging that you got a mouth and you say some things, that you give her an apology.

Grandma, I'm sorry. I really apologize for everything I did. I really don't mean it. I really do. Thank you, I accept it and I love you.

Thank you for doing that. It just only shows that young woman that is graduating, got accepted to colleges, I see her, I see her.

Thank you.

I see her. And you did a damn good job. Because I celebrate you for making that and doing that on your own. But there's a large piece of you in that as well. There's a large piece of you in that as well.

Yeah.

But I will say this, the vulnerability you showed here that had both of your granddaughters crying is because they don't ever see this. And with your toughness and your strength, that's where they get it from. But I know that those moments when you're at your wit's end, I think if you showed her more vulnerability, I think it could allow the communication to be better. You're nodding your head right now. What do you think?

I just wish I could say the things that Patrice is saying to my grandmother a long time ago.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They just want emotion from you. And I think sometimes when we have so much on our plate, we think emotion equals weakness and emotion doesn't equal weakness. Your emotion makes you even stronger in their eyes. It makes you even stronger. And so your granddaughters love you. You did a great job. You are doing it. You are doing it. And you deserve your flowers. You deserve to be loved. But in those moments now when you get at your wit's end, which we all understand why, I encourage you to just commit to saying, "Let me be a little bit more vulnerable instead with them." Before you throw the next hot sauce bottle, put it down and say, "Baby, come here and give me a hug." I tried it. Seriously, give your grandma a little grace. She's trying to do as best she can to keep you right on the path, but you just like, I'm doing it, but I'm tired. I'm tired. I wanna be a kid. But you've been dealing with trauma forever. You've been dealing with trauma forever. And it's not from you. It's from, you know, the trauma you felt like with your father and your mother. And also there's something else that's at play here, which I understand this and I just wanna make sure we talk about it just briefly. The psychology behind not feeling like my mother was there for me and now I gotta take care of her. Yes, it feels like the biggest chore to you. And that's why you get exhausted. When she says wash a dish, you like, I done did my work. But on the flip side, if she showed you more vulnerability, I think that would allow you to be like, you know what? I'm exhausted too, but damn, I realize Grandma's even more exhausted. Can you realize that a little bit now?

Yeah.

That even though you might be like, I don't wanna do it, that just even one little dish, how it could take a load off of somebody who's been taking care of so many people. Yeah. I'm just trying to help y'all to see each other's perspective. Y'all have a beautiful family. Family.

Thank you.

Y'all hold on tight to each other, okay? And just be mobile on the floor, all right? All right, all right. When did things start to change? When did you and your granddaughter start to butt heads?

About 3 years ago.

3 years?

When she was in the 10th grade. Mm-hmm. She started dating.

Yeah.

She gonna tell me she's dating. I'm like, what are you talking about? Well, I'm dating. That's the day she start becoming grown, thinking she can say what she wanna say to me, do what she wanna do, and totally disrespectful ways.

So how is she being disrespectful to you?

Zaniya tell me what she's gonna do. That's totally disrespectful. You don't tell me what you gonna do. I took the initiative to raise 4 grandchildren outta respect of my daughter.

You took the kids in because your daughter unfortunately passed?

She's passed away.

Yes.

I've raised each one of these children from birth. Although their mother was there, I had them because she wanted to go run the street.

Got it.

So I sacrificed my whole life.

Yeah. So what happened in October when the police was called?

I went to pick her up from school and we had this conversation. It was me and her. Her brother in the car, and Zaniya said something to the fact about her boyfriend. And I said, "Zaniya, you need to calm down. We wasn't even supposed to be on that conversation." She was going off and I slapped the shit outta her. I slapped the shit outta her, beat her up, made her get out my car and called the police on her ass.

So how did it escalate to that part of the fighting?

Her running her mouth.

Yeah.

She got a mouth that, You kill her. Her mouth is ridiculous. And I don't have to stand for that.

Why did you tell Zaniya you would shoot her in the foot and keep her in the house? 'Cause that's, I can be real and I understand the disrespect, but that's violent language.

She'll take you there. She would take you there. I'm up here with Zaniya. And I did say I shoot her ass in the toe.

Yeah.

I will, I'm tired. I ain't gonna kill her, I love her, I ain't gonna hurt her, but she need to listen. These young folk these days, I don't know what the hell wrong with 'em.

Let me tell you something, this must be an old Black family thing because I swear to God, I had a family, I'm not gonna say, I almost said who it was, used to say to me, if you get outta line, I'm gonna shoot you in the foot so that every time you take a step, you remember not to get outta line. And I used to look at them when I'm 14, I'd be like, You gonna shoot me in the foot.

I'm hearing it again.

I used to think that was only me and to hear it again now.

Yes, it ain't went nowhere.

Okay, it ain't went nowhere.

No, no. Wow. 'Cause I'm old school.

Yeah.

I'm old school and that's the best way to be.

So you talked to me about her mother who died in a car accident in 2012. I wanna know what was your relationship like with her?

It wasn't good.

Yeah.

I mean, I couldn't do nothing for her 'cause she was running the street. I had to take care of her damn children.

Is that why you're so protective of Zaniyah?

I'm protective of each and every last one of them.

Yeah.

Because I'm gonna tell you, her mother, I was trying to be protective over her, but she was being hard-headed and went out there and passed away because I told her not to do something, not to go somewhere, even my husband.

Yeah.

So.

You know, I gotta tell you, I know that there's been some time since 2012, but I know you're still grieving because I heard the language. You kept referring to your daughter as her mother.

Yeah.

Which there's a mental and emotional block that you have in there. Yeah. Have you ever spent time to think about that and to go with that?

No, I haven't had time.

I understand.

I raised these children from 3, 4, 5, 6, all the way up to now. Listen, I understand that. I haven't had time to take care of myself. And I'm tired now. I'm taking initiative to take care of myself.

Yeah. That'd be good. Listen, I'm talking to Sharee who is afraid of losing her granddaughter like she lost her own daughter. I think it's time that we hear from Zaniya. Everyone please welcome young Zaniya to the show. Hi, Zaniya, can I have a hug?

Mm-hmm.

Thank you. How are you doing today?

I'm good.

Good, good, good. You smell lovely.

Thank you.

So I gotta ask you a question and I want you to be honest 'cause I can already tell you're a smart girl. Do you think you're disrespectful to your grandmother?

I don't think I'm disrespectful to her. I mean, I asked her like what's her definition of disrespect or how I'm being disrespectful to her, but she can't tell me why.

So I'm gonna ask you from your own 'cause again, I want to go from you. What do you think the definition of disrespect is?

You know, calling you out your name, type and, um, just like extreme ruthless behavior.

Calling out your name and extreme rudeness.

I know what she talking about because I called her a bitch. Why should I have to listen to you? You could have listened to me. I know you have— I know you have feelings, but I'm the adult and I'm not gonna tell you nothing wrong, honey. You, you cannot expect me to sit there, listen to you talk, and that's it. That's done. No, I'll give you your chance to talk. And when I talk, you overtalk me and change it to how you feel. Okay.

Do you feel like that ever happens?

No.

Okay.

No.

Yeah.

I give her a chance to talk, she don't never give me a damn chance to talk. That's why I slapped the shit outta her when we was in the damn car.

Okay.

'Cause she kept running her mouth. In the car, I told you, you kept referring to me as my mom and my dad. I told you stop doing that 'cause I'm not them. I wasn't here when they was around. I'm not them. No, you only have— You can't refer to me as them. And I tell you all the time, be better than your mama and daddy. Don't be like them. So that's a lie.

So your grandmother is overprotective from her own words.

She knows that.

How does that affect you?

Okay, so I'm 17. As we all know. Duh. But to her, she treat me like I'm 10, like I'm young. Like she told me put a tracker on me. I had a tracker on me all the time. And it's like even with a tracker on, without a tracker on, she want me to tell her step by step what I'm doing. It's only for your safety. No, no, you got it wrong. Even when I'm out with my friends. You got it wrong. Even when I'm out with my friends, I can tell her I'm going to the mall. She got it wrong. What time you gonna be back home? I come in your house, at a respectful time. I don't come in 12, 11, I don't come in none of that. I be there at 9 o'clock or 10.

Is that true? She always comes at a respectful time?

No.

You told my producers that you said that you're not going to end up like your mother and grandmother.

What do you mean by that? Yes, because Grandma, she'll always tell me, I grew up like this. When I grew up, I had to do this and I had to do that. I'm not like you. How I grew up is not how you grew up. So you tell me life is a circle. I'mma think outside that circle. I'mma think, you keep holding me in, it's gonna make me wanna go out and do something crazy. I understand what she's saying. And then I'm not that type of person. She'll probably be like, oh, you go out here and go wild with these boys. I am not that type of person. I don't let no boy influence me. I influence myself.

Yes.

That's good. That's good.

I wanna know more about you. How are you in school? How are you? Were you a good student?

Yes, I had made principal list.

The reason I asked that is because I asked my producers to ask you for your report card. You are getting a 3.1. That's great. Your grades are phenomenal.

Yes.

I also heard you're taking aerospace science.

Yes, I'm in ROTC.

Yeah, you're in business technology, you're in multicultural literature, your GPA is a 3.1, and all your teachers recommended you as like one of the best students in the school.

Yes. They tell me that. They tell me that. Yes, I'm just so extra. When she get home with me, here we go. The damn mouth. It don't be the mouth, we can't— I appreciate all of that, I appreciate all of that. You can't take how I feel, you put it in, you view it something totally different in your head, and that was disrespectful. I've asked you how is it disrespectful, you can't even tell me. So until you could tell me, I can't fix nothing. Zaniya, you cannot talk back to me. That's the number one thing. You cannot talk back to me. Me explaining how I feel is talking back to you? No. When I walk away from Zaniya, there you go. I got a problem with that. So be it, I got a problem with that. I have not let her— I have not let her— Literally, she'll try to argue with me. Yes, I do walk away because I know myself. So I walk away to calm myself down. And she will come follow me. And she would keep going till I say something back to her. And it's not gonna stop until I say something back to her. You right. 'Cause if I ask you to go wash the dishes, I mean for you to go wash the dishes now. Don't walk away from me and not say nothing to me. You could even say, uh-oh. I say, okay. Mama, I ain't gonna do it right now, I'll do it later. I wash the dishes. She making it seem like I don't wash the dishes. I wash the dishes. But she thinks, like, it feels like I'm the only child in the house that's doing something.

Can you describe to me what it felt like when Shareek kicked you out? When your grandmother kicked you out?

I was real confused on like why you, like why she kicked me out because like I said, I didn't hit her, I didn't touch her, she hit me. You told me I had to go, so I had to go. Simple.

What did that do for you? What did that do to you?

That break the bond? No, the police told her she had to go. No, she.

What did that do to you? Because you're a young woman who's maturing and growing, right? Right now and like you're trying to figure out the world and I see it, I understand you're trying to figure out what to do, how to be better. And I know you have your grandmother's guidance, but these moments still affect you and stay with you. So how did that affect you knowing that like I have to get out now?

I mean, it's like I'm leaving my brothers behind. It's like you taking me away from them pretty much just because you're mad. I can't classify her feelings. I mean, I be trying to do stuff stuff with Zaniya. I really do. I even bought us coloring books. Yeah, to color.

Yeah.

Uh, Zaniya wants me to be on her time. I'm not on her time. She got to come on my time because I got a whole lot of stuff to deal with. And when I don't do what she want me to do, there you go, she shut me down.

What do you want to happen today?

I, I don't know what Zaniya need to do.

Oh, But what do you want to happen?

I'm done.

You're done?

I'm done.

'Cause I actually don't believe that 'cause I know you're here today. I don't believe that.

Okay.

I don't, because the thing is, is that I know the love in your heart. And also I gotta say, I'm gonna just give you this. The same way you haven't had time to focus on the grief of losing your child, there's things that are still unprocessed in her mind.

She also, on that same day the police came, She even told me if she had the choice to keep my brothers and give me away, she would've did.

So I know you know.

Hell, I done raised too many girls in my lifetime. I ain't want no more. I ain't wanna deal with that no more. I didn't wanna deal with that no more.

I get it, but that language right there.

I know.

Yeah.

I know.

But can you, I know you know, but see the thing is is that even in our exhaustion, we have to remember that our main intention was to protect and your words are not protecting her in this moment. Would you be able to, and I'm gonna get to her, so don't think I'm just staying on you. I'm gonna get to her. Would you be able to at least apologize for this language that you're using to her and understand that a young girl just like you who lost your daughter, she lost her mother and hearing the one woman figure I have in my life tell me, "I'm done. I don't want no more girls." These things, and I understand the context, It could be hurting her and could cause more damage in the long run. Can you at least apologize to her for that?

I will apologize and I have apologized to Zaniya. Zaniya boyfriend mother.

Yes.

Now I got a damn problem with that.

Okay, okay.

Because you being my granddaughter accepted this woman as your mama, grandmama, whatever the fuck. I had a problem with that.

Got it.

So if she through with me, I'm through with her.

Got it.

I have apologized to her about that plenty of times.

Yes, I got it.

I don't have to deal with that.

Here, thank you for sharing.

And I raised her.

That makes more sense. This makes more sense. Thank you for sharing that because what's going on—

I raised her.

There was the issues with your own daughter and her not being able to listen to you there's a rejection that you experience.

Yeah, right. She rejects me all the time.

And so it's being mimicked, but vice versa.

All the time.

You're feeling that same rejection when she says that.

I don't talk to his mama like that. She seem like I'm just turning her away and going to her. I talk to her more than anything.

One of the big lessons that you're gonna learn as a young woman is the same way that I'm here to validate your feelings, her feelings are valid too. But I think there's a big thing here that we have to remember, two big things. First of all, for you, you said that apology, would you be able to do it again for me right here so that way I can tell you all?

Of course, of course. I love you. I love you and I really apologize. I apologize and love you. And we need to work on us.

Yes.

Just me and you.

The second thing is, is that for you, there still is your grandmother. And so part of it is that there's things that as a young woman you'll never understand. And there's one, a third piece I'm gonna get to, don't worry. But there's big things you have to understand. And with her, there is a level of respect that even though she's become a maternal figure, she's still a grandmother. So there's that extra level. And even though it's difficult for sometimes for you to manage that, I get it because you're showing like, I'm good at school, I'm here.

Yeah.

You have to find this balance to strengthen yourself in those moments to be able to find a new way to communicate. So I know you know to some degree when you say something to her and you say no or you question her, you know what you're doing.

Yes, you do.

Do you? Mm-hmm. Yes, you know what you're doing.

And I ain't that smart.

And I acknowledge it.

But I can figure that out.

I acknowledge it. It's because you're mimicking her behavior. She said things, so you gonna show her. But there are levels that you have to be respectful. You have to be respectful. So can you commit to saying, I'm gonna start, when she says, hey, I need you to do this, this is still your caretaker. She is still the one who is providing a home for you, clothes for you, everything else. You have to be able to respect that. And you going around and stuff with your boyfriend and doing things like that, it hurts her. So you have to make sure that you're not being disrespectful. Is that something you can commit to?

Yes.

Y'all can take those steps. Of course.

Trust. I'm willing to communicate.

Better communication with the language and know that I'm not gonna reject you. You don't reject me. Can you do that?

Yes.

Yeah? Good, good. I'll give your grandma a hug. We gonna figure this out. It's all right.

Karamo, I don't recognize the person my daughter's become. When she was a little girl, we were best friends. When she grew up, she started acting out. Infinity, she doesn't trust me, and she's even told me she hates me. And now Infinity doesn't even call me. Call me mom. I was in and out of prison because I struggled with substance abuse. When I was in prison, she didn't try to call. And I've never abandoned my daughter. Never. Infinity doesn't even want me to have any part of my grandson. And it's my first grandson. She wants me to have no part in it. She didn't even say she was in labor or anything. She just walked right past me. She just walked right past me. This was a time where I should have been her mom, and I couldn't be. This is a time where I should have been a grandma, and I couldn't be. And she takes that from me all the time. Karamo, when this is all over, I do want a relationship with my daughter. I want my grandson to come over. I love my daughter. And I do need her to respect me, period.

We'll all get to meet Monique in a minute, but first I wanna actually sit down with her daughter Infinity. So everyone please help me welcome Infinity to the show. Hi, Infinity. May I have a hug?

Of course.

Thank you. How are you doing?

I'm doing well, thank you.

Good, good, good. So Infinity, we just heard your mother say a lot of things about how your relationship has changed. How do you feel about what you watched?

To be honest with you, I'm really just like, I'm tired of her just feeling like she's the victim. She's not the victim in this situation. Really, I'm not even the victim.

Can you take me back? I need to know about your relationship. How was it growing up?

So like when I was very young, you know, it was an okay relationship. You know what I'm saying? Like I love my mom. I wanted to be around her and things like that. As time went on and with her substance abuse, she knew that I knew what was going on. She kind of like started resenting me in a certain way, you know what I mean?

And was your mom using at that time?

To be, I don't know, but she probably was. Okay.

So what happened when you had your child recently on the day you gave birth?

Oh my gosh, oh my gosh. No, so look, it was the most traumatizing experience ever. Something's going on and I need help. And she's like, shut up, you're only making things worse.

Wow.

She left me at home by myself. And right when she left me at home, I ended up having to call the ambulance.

Did you give birth in the ambulance?

Almost, but I was able to make it to the labor and delivery room.

Wow. So do you still live with your mom now?

No.

'Cause my producer said your mom, kicked you out when you were 8 months pregnant?

[Speaker] So she didn't kick me out. What happened was she didn't like clarify and let me know like that the whole living situation was about to change. We were living in a 3-bedroom townhouse and then my sister says, "Oh yeah, we're moving into a 2-bedroom." And so like I kept asking her like, "What can we do to stay here?" "Oh, I got it figured out." And you know what I'm saying? And I'm like, "You don't even understand. Like I'm literally about to have a kid." She said, "Oh, you know, my grandson can be here. He has a bed, he has a place to stay." And I'm just like, "Well, what about me?" She says, "Well, like I said, my grandson has a place to stay." So no explanation at all? No explanation, no nothing.

So do you believe that your mother's substance abuse, how do you believe it's affecting your relationship? Or in the past, how it affected your relationship?

It's taken her mind to a whole nother place. Like she just isn't there all the way, you know what I mean?

And even though she's been sober now, but you still feel like she's not there?

Absolutely not. I'll try to have adult conversations with her and as soon as it turns to I wanna go this way and she wants to go that way, it turns to, well, I'm the mom and you have to respect me, you have to listen to me. I'm an adult now, you know what I mean? I'm not a child. And it's like once she understands that, we would have a better relationship, you know? But it's like now, that you've been gone and in and out all this time, you're trying to come back as this authoritative figure instead of just trying to be a parent, it's not gonna work. It's never gonna work with us.

Got it. Well, I know that you gave my producers a list of traits that you claim is your mom's toxic traits.

Yes.

I wanna see this list. That your mother, first of all, chooses men over her kids, that she won't admit her wrongs, and that she's emotionally abusive. She was physically abusive. These are things that you said that your mom exhibits that are toxic.

Yeah, like she, every time I tell her, you know what I'm saying? Like something made me feel some way because of what she did, she never is like, okay, you know what? Let me apologize.

I appreciate you painting this picture for me because it lets me know a lot about how you experience your childhood and also what you saw because that's important. But I think it's also important that we see your mother's side of the story. So everyone, I wanna welcome Infinity's mother, Monique, to the show. Monique, come on out.

I need to clarify some things.

Sure, yes, clarify, clarify. Thank you for coming. I can see you have some things you wanna clarify. Go for it.

First of all, I didn't just leave you having my grandson. You did, you absolutely did. Calm down, 'cause I'm not gonna go back and forth going back and forth while you're talking over me. I'm not. Because I'm not going to do that right there. That's the disrespect I'm talking about. But I have something to say. And you had a lot to say. And you had a lot to say. I'm saying my truth though. I'm not going to do this back and forth. I'm saying my truth though. You may not feel like it's true. But I'm not going to go back and forth is what I'm not going to do. But that's what happened. I'm not going to do it.

If you please give me a second, I can mediate this. Because I actually was writing down something you had just said. Because it's going to help me to try to figure out how to help you all later. You're saying one thing that you don't wanna go back and forth, but I noticed that there was an engagement on both of your sides, even though you were saying—

I'm a mama. Sorry, I'm sorry.

No, I get it. No, no, I get it, I get it. You can interrupt me, I don't mind. You can interrupt me all day long. But for you, you're saying that you had to correct this, that on the day that she was giving birth, that she was not left alone.

I never left her alone. And the thing was, I was getting ready for work. She's in there screaming, and I'm telling her to calm down because it's going to get worse. And I'm laughing because she's, like, praying. But it wasn't a laugh disrespect. I'm— calm down, calm down, baby. But, but there was never— she never told me she came home or nothing. They kept sending her home from the hospital. But she's there. I tell her, calm down. She's in the back. Calm down. I take her sister to practice. She calls, she's at the hospital. And that's how that was. It wasn't I left her, it wasn't, I got there as soon as I heard she was no longer at the house. I didn't know you were in labor. But how many times have you said this? I had 3 of y'all, so you should know what's going on.

Have you ever admitted to her that you felt bad?

All the time, because I really truly didn't know it was that bad.

So Monique, I wanna ask you, why do you say that you feel like Infinity doesn't want you to be a part of your grandson's life? Life?

She doesn't. Like, she calls when she wants to. You have my number. Why should I, the person with the child, the little baby child who has to give them all of my attention, call you? You can call us. Now wait a minute, something else that I wanna correct. I told us, and this is the word I used, let's come together like butt cheeks so we can keep this 3-bedroom. So then why didn't we? So we could keep this 3-bedroom. So why didn't we? Why didn't we? Mind you, we downsized. Because of you. Because I only have a 15-year-old to take care of.

You're grown.

And then that's totally fine and respectable. And what did I do? I figured it out. Why would you downsize and I'm 8, 9 months pregnant? Why would I downsize? Knowing that I need someplace to live. Well. That doesn't make sense. There's a thing called rent. There's a thing called rent that you don't pay. There's a thing called I go to work every day to pay rent. I never pay the rent. How much do you want me to pay rent? Never. Whoa, really? Never. Really? Really? 'Cause I don't expect you to pay rent. I don't expect you to pay rent. So then what is the problem then? Now if you were staying there. If rent is an issue, then don't bring up, if rent is an issue, then let's figure it out. But if you're saying, oh, you don't have to pay rent, then don't bring rent up.

Do you wanna salvage this relationship with your daughter?

I mean, if you could help me do that because I want my daughter. Oh my gracious.

I need to know if you got, you gotta give me a yes or no.

Yes.

Yes? Infinity, do you wanna salvage this relationship with your mom?

Yes, but I just need her to stop. But no stipulations. I just need her to stop. Period. I just need her to stop acting like she never did anything. Or if she just doesn't remember, that's fine. Just say you don't remember that happening. Just apologize, let's move on. That's why we're so stagnant because you can't just say, you know what, I apologize, let's move on. The way you want me to apologize? You all you have to say is, I apologize, let's move on. I apologize for the things I've allowed you to go through. And I forgive you. My truth is what it is. I forgive you and I apologize. And we need to let it go. Let's let it go.

So as much as I appreciate both of you being able to apologize, the issue that I'm seeing here in this communication is that neither of you actually respect Respect the other person's memories of how things went down for them. The first thing I will say is for you as a mom, I can see that you had a past where you dealt with addiction and you have tried and you have grown out of that. I believe that. And I believe that it should be acknowledged more. But I also believe that you have to acknowledge that in that cloud of addiction, during that time of being in jail, in and out, that there was things that your child was experiencing that in your mind you might think, well, this is how this went. But in her mind, her feelings and the development of a young mind saw it completely different.

I caught my first case. I was 33 years old. It was 2012. I will not forget that day. I left my house and I left and I went to jail and nothing was ever the same. That was in 2000. January, I mean July 12th.

Well, can I tell you something?

Yeah.

You just proved exactly what I said is that you two have different memories of every situation. And instead of accepting the other person's situation and saying, oh, this is your memory, y'all are always saying you're wrong, I'm gonna defend what I know. And that's exactly what I told you the symptom why your apology, though I appreciate it, will never go anywhere because both of you are so busy defending your point of views.

But can I say this? I'm mama. Shut it down right there, 'cause I'm mama. You can't do that anymore. No, no, no, no, no, I never could, obviously. You had the choice, but you chose everything else. Okay. You had the opportunity to be a parent and you chose not to be a parent.

So now I wanna say this. It's like, I think one of the best decisions, even though it hurt, was you leaving her house.

Absolutely.

It was one of the best things best decisions ever.

It was, it was, it definitely was.

Because what happens is that now it allows you to say, yes, I still want to be healed, but now I'm not under your roof anymore. I am paying my own rent. I am doing these things. So we can start having conversations where we respect each other.

Yeah, and that's what I want.

And you're gonna start getting there. But the thing is, is that I will say to you as well, even within that, is that you have to give your mother a certain amount of respect too. Absolutely. Because part of the growth of what ha— is in her own growth is that I think it needs to be acknowledged. That's what I said before. I see you've made mistakes in the past and I still do think that there has to be some stepping up and supporting your daughter more and more acknowledgement on your part. But I do believe that there needs to be acknowledgement of what you've done as well. Can you look at your daughter and say, "Daughter, I believe what you, how you felt and how you saw life is actually true." Because right now, by you saying, "I don't believe your truth," is by saying like, "You know what? You wrong, you crazy, you're a liar, you're all these things." And that's what's hurting the little girl in her. What's going on in your mind right now?

I just want my daughter back.

I know.

I've been wanting this to be over with. I just don't want it to be like every time something from the past gets brought up that doesn't sit well with you, and it just turns into this nasty, ugly thing. Now you just making it up because I don't even wanna live in the past. I don't even wanna go back to that.

So language like that, language like that of making it up, that's the type of language that you've been using before, that you've both been using that has to go away. Because what happens is anytime you say making things up, what I realize with her, 'cause I've been watching her and watching what she says, it triggers her abandonment.

You're right. It's not what you do, it's how you do it. So I respect that.

Good. There we go. I respect that.

I do.

There we go. That's the first step. First step. First step. You said to me when you sat down and she wasn't out here, you wanted your mom to see you as an adult and to take accountability.

Absolutely.

She's done both of those things to a degree.

Yes, and I appreciate that a lot.

Can you say that to her?

I very much appreciate it. Like seriously, I really do. I needed this. I feel like it's been stunting my growth as a woman and as a parent. You know? So you coming and saying that, that it's helping me, it is. Whether you fully believe it or not or whatever. It's done. The fact that you're saying it and trying, that's helping a lot. Seriously. That's my baby.

I know. What are you crying for? What just happened?

'Cause I love her.

I know.

And I love my grandson look just like her and I hate that we don't talk. I hate that she felt like this this whole time.

A man just taught me earlier today, those are tears of strength. And I will give this man credit for the rest of my life. That's why it hits you because you were strong enough right there to admit something that started to heal your daughter. Your vulnerability allowed you to start to heal your daughter.

To know I love her.

And then in essence, It's gonna start healing y'all, but y'all gonna be all right. I feel this. Y'all took a very big step and I'm very proud of y'all. Very proud of y'all. Y'all feel better?

Thank you so much.

You do?

You feel better? Yes.

You feel better as well? You feel better? Okay, give your mama a hug. Give mama a hug.

No, I'm here.

When did your mom start raising your child?

Since he was 1.

1 years old? Okay then. And why your mom now has guardianship of your son, Trevon?

Correct.

Okay, and why?

I had a warrant. I left Nebraska where she was at and I left him there 'cause she was threatening to call the police. And I'm like, if you did, if you, you know I got a warrant, why would you do that? So I was like, you know what, just leave him and go turn yourself in, then come back get him. But when I turned myself in and was like, okay, Mom, I'm ready to get him, she hit me with, oh, you gotta go to court.

Got it, okay. So the reason you turned yourself in was more out of a threat Threat from your mom calling the police. Okay. What was it like growing up with your mom?

She wasn't there.

Oh, okay. She wasn't there. Who raised you then?

My father.

Your father raised you. Okay. And where was your mom?

Wherever she was at. I don't know.

Okay. Got it. Didn't raise you. Okay, I understand. And when did your mom come back in your life?

So she reached out, I could probably say when I was 13, I turned it down. I remember a letter coming to the house and my dad was like, you got a letter for your mom. I didn't want it. 16, she reached out again, didn't care. I had my baby at 19. I'm like, okay, I got a son. Never mind what me and my mom got going on, I got a child, let them get a bond.

Okay, got it. So how soon after you had Tre'von did you move in with your mom again?

I'd say no later than a month after we left there.

So a month after you had your child?

Yeah.

Is when you moved in with your mom?

When I first had him, I made it very clear that I did not want kids. When I had him, I even was like, okay, I'm finna get him for adoption 'cause I wasn't ready. I was only 18. I was not ready to be a parent. But I made this very clear to my dad and my mother that I'm not ready to be a parent. But once I had him, like, nah, I can't do that. I can't do what my mama did. I have to step up and do what I have to do.

You told my producers that you feel like your mom planned to take your son all along.

I do, I really do.

Why do you feel that way?

I don't know, I just feel like she, the way she went about things, like if you wanted to—

Calling the police or threatening to call the police on you?

Like she used to use, call the CPS, she called, she threatened me with the police knowing I had a warrant. Like I just feel like she did it on purpose. And so I feel like this is her way of being like, okay, now I could show you I could be a parent.

Mm, got it. I wanna hear your mother's side of the story, and she has some things that she said earlier. So everyone, let's take a look at this.

I am my grandson's guardian. I make sure my grandson gets whatever he needs. I'm the one who makes sure Trevon is up, has breakfast, gets dressed and ready for school. I'm the one who puts my grandson to bed at night. I'm providing a roof over his head and a stable environment for that little boy. It is frustrating to be a full-time parent again, and that's not what I wanted for my life. I feel like Trinity takes me for granted because she knows I'm always gonna be there for my grandson, and she gets to go and come as she wants to freely 'cause she knows that I have it. I don't think my daughter gives me nearly enough credit for the sacrifice or the undertaking of caring for my grandson while she's trying to figure out what she's gonna do with her life. I do everything for her son, everything. Yeah, I gave her, like, I left her with her dad 'cause I was on drugs. I was 20 years old, on my third child. When her dad called me while she was in jail and was like, "Yeah, Trinity's pregnant," Chris was very adamant that Trinity could not come back to his house with the child. And I told Chris, you can't be like that. We're gonna figure this out 'cause you know she was talking about an abortion and I was like, I'm not gonna let you have an abortion, what have you or whatever. So Trinity was like, I wanna come and let's do this and—

Is that why you have guardianship of Trevon?

I have guardianship over Trevon because she was abusing my grandson. She called him bitches, she threw shit at him, she left him in a fucking car. Dirty-ass room. So if we gonna unpack, let's unpack. Excuse me, I need a minute. Oh my gosh.

What's going through your mind right now?

For her to actually sit here like I just woke up one day and I was like, here, I want my daughter's son. She got up and left this boy in the middle of the day. You abandoned your son. I did not take your son. You're not gonna sit here and lie on me, Trinity. You left him and you came by leaving him. What's wrong with you? I need a minute. I'm not finna do this with you. You left him. Goodness gracious.

What's going on in your mind? Talk to me.

One, I did not up and leave him. He went to school that day, so I did not just up and leave him. I told her and my dad and her husband and her mom ahead of time that I was leaving. I still have the screenshots and the messages to prove I told her I was leaving. So that did not just happen. Yes, the part of me not taking care of him is true, but it wasn't like I didn't wanna take care of him. I didn't have the part-time to be like, damn, I just had a baby.

Sabrina, I gotta ask you this. Did you two have a relationship before Trayvon?

We had a relationship, but it was more so like a usury. Mom, I need this. Mom, I need that. 'Cause she was pregnant, so she always got her hand out for something. And at first I used to be like, well, maybe I owe it to her a little bit because I know I wasn't there. But at some point in time, the shit gotta stop. Like, you not just gonna keep on using me 'cause you think I owe you. I've apologized. I can't help it that you didn't have the best life with your dad. I'm not making any excuses for what I did as a parent, but at least I left you with your dad. It's not like I left you on the corner. It's not like I let you go live in foster care and limbo. You know, I didn't do those things. I left you with who I thought could take care of you best 'cause I wasn't in a position to take care of you. It hurt my heart for her to sit here and make it seem like it's a conspiracy to keep my grandson. Because when your son came home from the hospital, Miss I'm Ready to Be a Mom, your dad didn't even have running water in there for y'all. No, don't hold on nothing. Don't hold on nothing. Don't hold on nothing.

The person saying hold on, Trinity, is your father Christopher, right?

Yes. Don't hold on nothing.

Thank you for joining us. Please stand for me.

Buckets of water, roach-infested apartment. Don't play with me. Don't play with me.

So Christopher, I gotta ask you, 'cause I see you had a reaction to that. What was it like raising Trinity?

It was good times, bad times.

She was a handful, but all that about I didn't want her, when my grandson was born, she already know me and her went through it. But once my grandson was born, I was there for him the whole nine. The only reason he really left, because she said she wanted to bond with her mother. That's the real reason why.

Don't you and Trinity sit here and lie.

Sabrina said that when your daughter was pregnant, you said you didn't want her to stay with you. Is that true? Yeah, 'cause me and Trinity was going through it. Okay.

Trinity know that.

Me and Trinity was going through it. But you didn't know your father didn't want you to stay? Mistake, you just thought you were going through it.

It doesn't benefit me to lie.

How does the situation affect Trinity in your opinion?

She's hurting from it.

Yeah, yeah. Is this situation hurting you too? Yeah, because I was there through the whole birth, through all of it.

What are you doing now, Chris? The last thing that I remember that you did for your grandson is when you were here in Nebraska and you bought him some McDonald's. I've been stepping up this whole time, so having him along— Oh, she's not ready to raise her son, but then in both sides of the face, "Oh, Trinity, go get your son, go get her son." She need her son, she's not ready. I can't play both sides of the face.

There's no both sides, she's not ready. But she still need him.

She still needs him. I'm not saying that, that's not the case. She's not ready, but she still needs him. I don't keep her from her son, I do not not allow her to talk to her son, I don't do none of that. I didn't wake up in the morning and say, "Oh, I wanna be a parent again." That's not what I had on my mind. I'm like, damn, I'm about to get a divorce. I'm about to be single. Let me enjoy being by myself. But no, I couldn't do that. I have to raise my grandson. Somebody gotta be consistent and stable for him while everybody else get to do whatever they wanna do whenever they wanna do it. Trinity, you are not ready to get your son back.

Okay, Sabrina, you said that Trinity is not ready to get her son back. To get her son back. What does she need to do to be ready, in your opinion?

She needs to be stable, not from pillow to fucking post. Have a fucking job. Not wanna get him because she think it's gonna help her get some food stamps or she can get some assistance or whatever. He's not a check, he's a fucking child. I don't give a fuck food stamps. I got a fucking job. Congratulations. Congratulations, then that's the fuck you need to do. But I've been doing that. Nothing ever. Sorry, Karamo, I'm sorry.

No, you're fine, you're fine. This is your life. You're allowed to feel how you feel.

It's not even my life, it's my fucking grandson's life. At the end of the day, that's all that fucking matter is Trayvon. That's all that matter.

That's not true, that's not true. Sabrina? Can I correct one thing that you just said? That's not true. There's another child that is involved. I really do understand your frustration. Can I tell you this though? Your daughter hasn't picked her head up once since she's been in front of me. A lot of what she's feeling is a lot of pain from her being a child and her self-esteem is broken. And so the way that she acts out, of course it's frustrating for you now because 'cause it's like she has a kid. There's something you said that I wanna show you how this is mimicked. You said when you were not there for her, you said you had to go and you said, "It's not like I left you on the street. I left you where I thought you were best." You said that.

I said that.

And I believe it. Your daughter's going through the same things right now.

I understand that.

And right now as she's trying to figure out own emotions. She's trying to figure out what this is to be a woman. She's also trying to figure out how to work through her own abandonment issues. All these things that I can see. She's leaving her child. She's not abandoning it. She's leaving her child where she thinks the child is going to be at its best.

I know that. I know that. I know that.

The reason I'm pointing that parallel out for you is because I know you're frustrated and I know one of the things you said is maybe I owe her, but I don't think I owe her. She can't keep using me. I don't think she's using you. I know it feels to you like she's using you. And I'm clear, I can see where you're at in your life and I understand how it could feel that way. But I want you to think about this. This young woman has never had a real relationship with you. So she doesn't know how to communicate what she's feeling. She doesn't know how to communicate communicate, how for you two to know each other. Your daughter is screaming out silently that she wants her mother to fight as hard for her as you're fighting for her child.

I do, I do. I just told her about a month ago, I'm like, if you're gonna be here, be here. If you're not gonna be here, then just leave because her in and out don't only affect her son, it affects me.

I want you to hear that. And I want you to imagine that those words were coming outta her mouth because I understand you're living your life, but I keep thinking you're not understanding the experience she had because I'm here and I understand your experience. You just said either come in or out. This is the experience she had with you.

I didn't go in and out her life. I left and I did not come back.

But here we are. You left, didn't come back, and now you're here. Now hold on, you're here now and every time she does something that doesn't meet your liking, it's, "I'm tired of you." I'm not saying you kicked her out physically. I'm telling you what could trigger someone who feels abandoned. She wants to be up underneath her mother. That's what she wants.

Well, she needs to stop fighting me. I want my daughter up under me.

She can't help it. She can't help it. Let me tell you what the reason she can't help it.

Why she can't help it?

Because she spent years not believing if you really wanted for her to be up underneath you 'cause you weren't there. I want you to do me a favor and ask your daughter to lift her head.

Put your head up. I tell you all the time, you are here, you are seen, you are heard, you are loved.

You don't believe that, do you? I know, I know, I know.

Come on, Trinity. Don't, stand up, baby. Come on. Don't. I was so sorry.

Don't do that.

Don't do that, baby. I'm sorry. I know. I'm sorry too. We so much better than this. OK, let me do this. OK, I love you, Trinity. I love you too. I love you. I love your life. If you need me to apologize in front of the whole world, I apologize. I apologize for abandoning you. I apologize for not being the mother that you needed me to be. I apologize sincerely from the bottom of my heart. It's not, I don't want an apology. You've been apologizing. I need you to understand. I need you to understand me the same way with my dad. I need y'all to understand me, not as a mother, but as your child. The little girl that you wasn't there for, She's been hurting and she's still hurting. So Trinity, what is it that Sabrina can do to help Trinity? I don't even know where to start. I honestly don't. And that's okay.

Mom, Mom, Mom.

And that's okay.

Good job.

That's okay.

Mom, really good job. I'm gonna ask you one other thing. I know you got a mouth, but I'm just gonna ask if you could be more patient. Because when you say those things that are like, when you cussin', you doing those things, you're really cussin' at that little girl. And that's what keeps the head down.

Understood.

All right, I really do wish y'all the best of luck. All right, y'all gonna be all right. And thank you, Dad, you did a great job raising her. That's a lot to hear that you're fighting with your grandmother in the streets. I'm new school in the sense of like, I understand like you gotta be respected in toxic relationships, but I'm old school in the sense like you don't fight your grandma. Okay, so what was going on?

So it was like right after my graduation.

It was a really hard time for me because I was all on my own.

When I needed my grandmother the most, I just felt like she wasn't there for me at all. So the fight happened because She had gifted me $100 for my graduation. Later that night, she took the $100 back because she left her wallet at home. She needed to pay for dinner. So I gave her the money. I gave it back to her. I didn't say anything, just gave it back to her. Then like a week later, I was supposed to give her some money. I was supposed to give her $100. And then I'm looking at my money. I'm like, wait, she still owes me the $50 from that. So I just went, I just went to her, like to go talk to her to see like if she was gonna give it back. At the end of the day, she was supposed to give me the money back. Then the whole situation just turned into something it wasn't supposed to be. She tried to attack me in front of my sister. Not only in front of my sister, in front of my cousin. My cousin had to hold her back. My room got destroyed, my door was broken.

So you told my producers that this is a pattern of hateful things that she does to you. What does she do?

When she's in her mood, she would throw her anger out on the wrong person.

Well, Keoni, it says, you said that your grandma says she fat shames you, calls you the B word. She says all the time that she regrets taking you in and she controls you.

Yeah. Well, the regret taking me in part was, it happened one time. It happened during COVID I remember me and my friend was sitting on the couch and she had asked me if I knew where something was at. I said no, I didn't. And she just went off from there.

Got it. So how does this all make you feel?

I feel like no matter what, deep down inside, you meant it.

Got it.

If you was to say it, you meant it.

So describe your relationship with your grandmother.

Well, it's like we live together, we with each other 24/7, but we don't have that emotionally like relationship. I can't go to her, I can't, talk to her about what I'm going through.

I'm like all on my own.

The only person I could really go to is my aunts 'cause they've been through the same situation I've been going through.

Oh, they feel like they've been through the same situation with your grandmother?

Yeah, every day.

But that's their mom. Okay.

Yeah.

So I wanna just clarify, why did your grandmother take you in?

My grandmother took me in because at the age of 6, my mom had passed.

Okay.

When I was 6 years old, she was giving birth Yeah, that's her.

A beautiful mother.

Thank you.

Yeah.

She was giving birth to my sister and unfortunately she never came back home after that.

What was it like for you growing up without your mom? I felt lost.

When you go through a death, no matter what, it hurts.

Yeah.

But when you lose your mother, that breaks you. That's permanently damaged you. And I feel like no matter what, I will always have that feeling inside.

I just felt like a floater.

Even though I did stay with my grandmother, she did take me in, I did feel kind of safe. That was home. Nana home was home to me. I still felt like a floater because I didn't have my mother.

My producer said that you've come into some money now.

Yeah.

What happened? That's from what happened. From your mother's death? Yeah. Okay, makes sense to me. So what do you think your Grandma Sharon is mad about the money?

I don't wanna say she's mad.

Okay, what language did you use?

I wanna say she does have some like hatred towards it. That's how I feel.

Okay.

I feel like she has some hatred.

Why?

Towards it. Because I feel like she told me before, she said, I feel like you, she says, she had asked me and she was like, don't you feel like I deserve it? I deserve half of it. She said if it wasn't for her, I would've never had it.

Because she's the grandmother, so since she had your mother and your mother had you, that's why she feels like—

No, well that too, but no, because she went to go through the whole process of getting it.

Oh, she did the lawsuit 'cause you were a child.

Yeah, I was a child. So she went through the whole process of doing it. So she, I guess she feels like I should give her some of it.

What do you need my help with today with your grandma?

I just need help with like amending our relationship. I feel like I'm at the point of life where to where I want to get past all of this. But in order to get past it, I feel like it needs to be talked about, it needs to be confronted. I can't get rid of the pain or move past the pain until it be acknowledged.

Does she know you feel this way?

No matter how many times I express how I feel, she will always try to throw something in my face to make me feel bad. So like right before coming here, we had a little talk and I told her how I felt. She said to me, she said, "I feel like you're holding a grudge towards me." She said she feels like I hate her.

Got it. All right, listen everyone, time to hear from Keoni's grandma. Let's bring out Ms. Sharon. Sharon, thanks for being here.

How you doing?

Okay, first of all, Grandma, you look fly. Thank you. Yeah, you do. So I wanna know from you, what is going on with you and your grandson?

Sometimes I feel like nobody understands me. I lost my child and I don't try to be slick or anything like that, but I try to get him to understand that if it wasn't for me, it wouldn't have been no you. You say that all the time. I do, because it's reality. So the thing is, it's not looking for me doing all this to him. I'm not getting anything back. I feel empty because I done took care of everybody. I had to hold up for everybody. He was 6 years old. I had a 3-week-old baby in my hand. I took my daughter to the hospital. She told me she had a headache. I, I, I— But don't you feel like if you were my grandma, that's something you were supposed to do? Of course, because it's not only as a grandmother, but I'm talking about that's my child.

I hear you.

So if my child came to me and said she got a headache, I'm taking her to the hospital. But unfortunately, I had to leave my child there. What parent wanna do that? She's 27 years old. I don't know, you know, like I am who I am. I'm a dominant woman, I'm strong. I've been through what I've been through.

Are you shocked to hear what your grandson is saying?

Oh, totally.

Why does it shock you?

Because I didn't know. 'Cause I never told her. I didn't know that he really felt like this about me. I never got to share it. I told him the other day. To say that I feel like you don't like me. You love me, but you don't like me.

Yeah. He says that you fat shame him. Is that true?

No, I don't fat shame him. Not now. No. Go ahead. Back then. Yeah, go ahead. When we was going through a lot and you would take your anger out on me, you would say things about my weight, about my body. I would get bullied in school and have to come back home To hear it from you, it would hurt. But you never told me you got bullied in school. I would come to you all the time. You never told me you got bullied in school because you know me, I would've went to the school. You did go to the school for certain stuff. I was telling you I was getting bullied. I was telling you what they were saying about my mother, about my mother being gone. I was telling you about what they were saying about my sexuality. And I was telling you about what everybody was saying about me. What did I do when they said something about your mother? You did go to the school. I went to the school and I addressed it, right? Yes. Yes, I do. And I am grateful for that. You know, but my thing is, is that, you know, like, we having this little difficult time between me and you, and God knows on my soul, you know I got your back. I know. I got you. Things, did you ever ask me did I wanna do this? Nobody asked me did I wanna do it. You know, family came by and all of this stuff was going on. But you had to wanna do it in order to do it. They say, "Oh, well we got you, we gonna help you." I look up when the smoke was clear, nobody was there. It's sad.

Do you feel like your grandson is being ungrateful?

No, he's not ungrateful. He's just a child that's been damaged. You know, when he talk about the money, you know what I'm saying? I fought for 5 years because they told me my daughter's death was gonna be in vain. And I said, "The devil's a liar." So when we got to the claim, you know, it was about his sister too. So I was asking my daughter to go with me and nobody went with me. I went by myself. Nobody else could take it but her. Nobody else was strong enough to do that. To go to court and relive it, re-hear it. And I had to put all my feelings to the side and go fight for my grandchildren. It wasn't even about the money. I wanted my daughter's death investigated. Not to go in vain. I hear you, I hear you. Okay, so when he say things like, when I'm back there and I'm listening to him and he say things like, I think he's, I'm mad because I didn't, you know, I didn't get none and he feels like he's supposed to give me something. I'm broke, I ain't got no money. When did I say that? I might look like money, but I ain't got no money. When did I say that? Okay, but my whole thing is, is that I had a claim with it and I withdrew my claim. You told me that you wasn't gonna get none no matter what. I don't have to tell you everything. All you really have to know is that I have your best interests at heart.

It sounds like to me that you never got a chance to grieve your daughter.

No, I never got a chance to grieve. I don't think none of us have.

Yeah.

None of us have. No, I never. None of us have. I look at my daughter, We are destroyed. But that person there had my back. I wanna say— I miss my mother too. I know you do, baby.

Ms. Sherry, why is it important for you to be here today?

For Keani. Because Keani want me to show up.

And so you showed up.

That's why I showed up. You know how many times today I said I wanna go home?

And I said, let's go. Keonie, what is it again that you want your grandmother to hear?

I do love you, no matter what. I try my hardest to not act the way I do towards you. I have that feeling, but it's hard.

The words that you had said is going to stick with me for the rest of my life. What are the words that she said to you that you want her to know?

We was arguing, you was trying to hit me with a stick and I was holding the stick from you. You said to me, you're a bitch. That's not true. Don't do that. I've never in my 62 years said that to you. You probably don't remember because of the healing moment I was going through. I remember. I never said that to my grandson. I wouldn't just say that out of nowhere. You did. You gotta be kidding me. Never. And I'm not gonna deny having said some things. I said some things like, Stop acting like a bitch. Yeah. You don't say that to other kids. I said that. I did. I did say it. But y'all gotta, you know, and I'm not trying to make any excuses for my actions or my behavior, but I'm angry too. I'm angry. I'm angry right now that I feel like I'm losing my grandson.

What do you need from your grandmother right now?

What I need for her to just to be there for me emotionally, 'cause I'm still trying to figure out life. I'm still trying to just figure out everything. I don't have a mother, don't have a father, and you wanna go to the person you live with 24/7. You wanna go to your legal guardian. You wanna be able to go to them and to not, to feel like you can't, it hurts. And I just want her just to be there for me more.

I want us to have a better relationship.

I want us to be able to talk to each other. Not just talk about drama that's going on for somebody else's drama. No, let's talk about us. Let's talk about how we could better our mental health.

Let's just talk about how we could better ourselves. Michelle, how do you feel about that?

I respect it 100, but I respect him, you know what I'm saying? And I honestly can say is that I'm gonna work on it. That's my honest truth, you know? But I need, I need stuff too. What do you need? I need you to come in the room sometime and say, "Nana, how you feel today?" Yeah. Okay. I cry in the night. I cry in the night. But you don't even know that I still come in the night, I still come in your bedroom to check to see if you breathing from the heart attack you had. I do the same thing to you, don't I? Knock on your door. Yeah, you do check up on me. 'Cause I don't bust in your door. I knock on your door. You all right? You're saying that I don't come in and talk to you, right? You don't talk to me. Yes, 'cause I feel like I can't. Why? You have to have a breakthrough. You gotta get past this stuff. That's what therapy's here for. Let me say something to you. You said that you have had so much stuff with me, right? I just don't believe it's all me. You've been through so much. I do. At 16 years old, you haven't had a mother or a father.

You want an emotional connection and what she's trying to do is tell you that she's emotionally feeling this way. Y'all are both in extreme grief. The love you have is mixed with this grief and this fear that we're gonna lose people, that y'all are checking on each other. Mm-hmm.

Right.

I'm gonna tell you this, when people have trauma and grief mixed together.

Hurt people hurt people.

They see things in their own way. Can you apologize to your grandson right now for the things the things that he felt you said?

I apologize. I'm really sorry if I hurt you that way. It was not intentionally. Sometimes it's misdirect anger. I don't know where I'm angry at. I don't know what to do sometimes. I'm sorry for we to get here, to have to do this. I am so sorry. That was not my intentions.

Yes. Can you accept all that and receive your grandmother?

Yes, I do.

You can?

Yes.

She wants to be emotionally open to you. You see what you asked for, she's doing right here on the show.

Yeah.

She's showing you she can do it. Mm-hmm. Can you be a young man that can step into your maturity and do that for her as well?

Yes.

You can?

Yes, 'cause I need it too.

She needs it too.

Sometimes I feel like I'm just dying inside.

Y'all both are grieving. Y'all gotta be there for each other, all right?

Yeah.

You got somebody who's gonna ride for you for the rest of your life and who loves you.

And that's what I did for 5 years. I did that because—

Break off a point.

I said it wasn't—

Give your grandmother a hug.

It wasn't about no money. I wanted them to be taken care of in case anything happened to me. They won't have to go to nobody.

I know.

I know.

I get it. I get it. You hear me? But just remember, give her a chance to respond like you gave her a chance today. Y'all gonna be all right.

Yes.

Thank you for being vulnerable and open.