The 7 Wildest Teen Moments from Season 2 | KARAMO

I got a reputation and know what's up. I smoke, drink, fight. You want to talk, you gonna get hit. I just feel like I'm an adult. My mom, she got the audacity to start talking. She didn't mind her business and sit down, for real. Jamira is my god sister. She got my back, I got hers. We got a tight relationship. My cousin Jamira, she called me up saying, oh, some stuff just went down with these people, I need you to come down and help help me out with it. And I was like, all right. I took my mom's credit card to buy a bus ticket to help Jamirria fight. It was for my god sister, so I ain't sweating it. We get into everything together, like fighting and everything else. Nadia taught me how to fight. Nobody can tell me what to do. You not gonna control me. I'm a whole wild child and you definitely ain't gonna put no leash on me. And if you run up on me and my girl Jamirria, I'm gonna be waiting.

Wow. Everyone, please welcome Shannon and LaToya to the show. Thank you both for being here.

I really appreciate it.

I see tears are coming down your eyes. What happened? That video got you? Here, lemme give you this. Lemme give you that. What caught you in that video that made you emotional? 'Cause I don't understand why they act like this.

I mean, I give Jamariah everything, anything she asks me for, even when she don't deserve everything.

Yeah. So I wanna know, did you know about this fight with Jamariah?

Yes, I did.

Okay.

Jamiriah walked up to this girl and just went to swinging on her and I'm like, wait, stop, stop.

So Shannon, has Nadia been in any other fights?

Yes, she fights. She's very defiant, to be quite honest with you. She puts on a good show that she's very polite and very mannered. Yes ma'am, no ma'am. But when she's out of my sights, completely different child. She fights. She gets arrested. She's just very wild. You heard her, she said she's a wild child. Yeah. Nobody can tell her anything.

What kind of trouble has Nadia got into before?

Oh gosh. So not once but twice she has stolen her grandmother's car right outta the driveway, 2 o'clock in the morning. She sneaks out, grabs the keys, picks up all her friends along the way. Mind you, she doesn't have a driver's license.

Got it.

So they're going 100 miles an hour down the highway, riding maybe about an hour and a half south of where we live to go to clubs, hang out, party on the beach.

And she's 16.

These are teenagers.

And is she skipping school?

She does. She failed last year.

She did?

Yeah.

So now she's a grade behind. What do you say to Nadia when she's acting out?

Nadia doesn't try me. Nadia knows I'm from the old school and she might, that's what I said, she might do that in public and defy authority. She gets arrested, she talks back, talk back to the cops.

Oh wow.

But she doesn't talk back to me.

Okay, well I'm ready to meet the girls. Let's welcome Nadia and Jamira to the show.

Oh Jesus. Y'all ain't need no license to drive, you need a whole car. Why y'all playing right now? Oh my gosh, Nadia. Why y'all lying right now? Who's lying? Y'all are disrespectful to us, so there's no reason why y'all gotta lie 'cause there's a whole audience here. I'm your mother. I'm your mother. You built this with me. So why you lying? Can I smack her?

Can you what?

Can I smack her?

No, no, no. What did she say that just made you wanna smack her?

'Cause you a brat. Okay. She a what? A brat, and so are you. And you are too. Thank you. But he, he, he, he ain't funny.

Jamariah, why do you feel like you have to fight?

Why do you have to fight? Because I have to stand up for myself. So I'm gonna have to fight. Mm-hmm. Prove a point.

Why do you feel like you constantly have to stand up for yourself? What's going on?

'Cause people like to try me and think just because I'm little, I'm not gonna stand up for myself.

Okay.

So Jamirri gotta do what she gotta do for herself.

Got it. Nadia, why do you feel like you have to protect Jamirri?

Because that's my mini me. That's my god sister. That's my day one. I always got her back.

Mm-hmm. And that's your day one, right? Yes.

Uh-huh.

Okay.

These are our girls. We love them so much. And that's why we're here because we don't want them to throw their life away.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why do you laugh when your mother says she doesn't want you to throw your life away?

'Cause it's just funny how she changes up on people.

What do you mean she changes up?

This, 'cause we on a show, you act different now? Nadia, you know I'm always telling you that I want your best interest at heart. I'm always telling you that I love you, that you are smart, you are beautiful. I know you love me. Come on, man. I know I'm beautiful. I take after you.

So what is it? You said she changes up. What do you mean by she changes up?

Like she act like she is so perfect, such a good little, Little mama, no. I don't claim, listen, I don't claim to be that. What did she do, Nadia? I don't know, I don't claim to be that because Nadia knows I made my mistakes and I've been honest about them. My mother has helped me with her a lot.

Okay.

And so that's why she feels like she could walk all over my mother. That's why she steals her car. She treats her— I have fun. She treats her very badly.

So I know you said you raised them, but it sounds like your mother helped a lot with the raising.

Absolutely. She did. Absolutely.

Did you live with your grandmother at all?

I did for, A quick minute.

Okay.

Her car was nice too.

Got it. Okay.

But the city bus is even better. Yes.

You've been making faces the entire time. What's going on in your mind?

This one. Because I just feel like Kwame need to mind her business and stay out of Nia's and Shannon's business. Why you jumping in? Let her talk. Let her talk. But y'all don't let us explore enough. So that mean we gotta sneak out and run away, then that's what we gotta do. Okay, so how about this? You don't gotta run, you can walk. But when you leave the house, my clothes, everything that I purchased stays. 'Cause if you grown, then you can go buy your own clothes, your own shoes, all that stuff. Where you gonna get the money from? But who said we gotta buy it? We ain't gotta buy nothing.

Oh, y'all need to shut up.

You going to jail? Don't tell nobody to shut up. You going to jail, it's be quiet. You going to jail. I wait for the day, I wait for the day, and I'm gonna regret the day that something really happens to y'all because we've been there saving y'all, sparing y'all from the police. You let me go to jail one time for the police. Oh, but this time, she'll be there. I'm glad you showing up. Can you run? Not really. Oh, girl. I can walk. I'm not scared, I can walk. Okay, so when they put you in handcuffs, you better not call me. She left you in jail? She did for a quick minute. She took her nice little time to come pick me up.

You were in jail for what?

Stealing my mother's car.

Got it. Jamerrill, I wanna know what are you upset with your mom about?

'Cause when we, like, sometimes I be feeling like she wanna be taking her husband's side and he be dead wrong. And then when I argue with him, I'm wrong. To be honest, I noticed that too. You take his side more than you take your own daughter's side. 'Cause y'all ain't supposed to be arguing with grown people. When grown people are disrespectful. First of all, you are a child. You cannot win against an adult. These are parents. Respect is earned. That is her stepfather. This is her mother. I am your mother. Respect is earned. No. Yes, it is. Not for us, Nadia. Respect is due to adults. But when you talk to somebody like that, do you expect for them to speak to you in a nice manner? I don't have the capacity to keep doing this. I don't.

Got it.

I really don't. And she don't even act like this. I don't. She pushing it. Because she get slick with the stepdaddy and be ready to fight him. But she, ask her what she did when she was 10 years old. Swing, swing on him.

What happened at 10 years old?

When she drew her hand at me, ask her what happened. My mom was yelling at me and I got tired of her yelling at me. I had just came home from school and she wanted to argue so bad. I don't even remember what I did. But all I know, the next thing I did was ball my hands up at her and I got knocked down on the floor. But. Yup, as you should've. Yup.

Jamariah, my producers told me that your mom told a secret about you that you didn't want out there. What was that secret? What was the secret?

I think it was something about me. Okay, so when I grow up, I wanna be a police officer, but that might not work out. So I have plan B. Plan B is probably gonna be a stripper, but who knows?

So you told people that she wanted to be a stripper?

That's aspiring to be great. Yeah, I don't, we'll probably make more cash than you do. Both of y'all put together. Amen. I'm so done.

So there has been so much going on here that I've been taking notes on that I've been witnessing and observing. I wanna take a quick moment and I'm gonna have you two young ladies, if you could please go backstage.

Sure. Don't be lying now.

I will tell you something that I don't, and this is very rare for me to say this, I don't think that I can solve this issue here. I don't feel that way. 'Cause I'm very honest about on being on my show of like what my, even with my training and skills, there's way more going on here. But what I can do is share with you what I've been observing.

Okay.

Okay. And what I have observed is there's a lot of mimic behavior. And this is not to call either of you bad moms 'cause I don't think you are. I do believe that your daughters are mimicking majority of your behavior. I do believe, I'm watching how your daughter talk to you. I literally have just been watching. When you talk, when you move, when you move, when you move as well. I do think, because I heard you during the break, I went over there and your mics are on and I heard you be like, "I'm gonna slap the shit outta you." And so, and so when I— I'm sorry. Like, no, no, no, you don't need to apologize. Again, I'm telling you what I'm just observing because that's all I can do for you here. And so what I do know about kids who have had issues, a lot of that is, mimic behavior because of rejection, because of other things. But right now, every time they say something, you both say, "Quiet down, you better not, you shut up." Which I understand, you're making sure you assert that I deserve respect.

Absolutely.

I get that, I'm a parent as well. But there's also something about shutting down your kids where they can't express what they're going through. And if you want me to help your kids, I have to know what they're really going through. I don't know. I don't know the truth of any of this situation. I don't know what's going on. All I know is they fought, they mimic their mother's behaviors. There's so many things.

We're their only role model though. You have to understand. Well, for me at least, because like I said, I'm a single mom and I'm gonna keep going on that because it's really difficult to do that.

I get it.

I don't have a lot of time.

So I don't know if you know this. So I raised my two boys by myself. I was a single parent in that house. And so similar to you having two boys looking at me and mimicking my behavior, Like when I was younger, like I was partying, I was wild. I've been very open about y'all. I was doing drugs, I was having the best time ever. But one thing that happened is that when my sons got into any situations, I did not match their energy. I did not show them the same thing they were showing me. And I'm not saying that you're not frustrated. I get exhaustion as a parent, but I also understand that you gotta model the proper behavior.

She don't wanna stop. I mean, you know what I'm gonna stand up.

And she smiles the same way you smile every time you say something. She does the exact same thing.

I'm gonna stand up for her though because you know, Of course, because the same way Jamira and Nadia stand up for each other.

Like, of course you gonna stand up for her. They're mimicking behavior.

I get it. Of course.

What I just say to y'all is the one thing that you said is you said we gotta show these girls tough love right now. And this is something I believe by as a parent and just as somebody who works in this profession. I don't believe love should ever be tough. I think that when you have little girls that are acting out or children that are acting out, love should be compassionate, love should be patient, and love should be tolerant of saying, I gotta figure out what's going on. So what I suggest to you is watch your behavior.

It has been over and over for years and years. I love my daughter through thick and thin.

I get it, I get it.

And that's why I don't have her arrested.

I promise you, my son got on my nerves two nights ago and I wanted to cuss his ass out, but I don't. I'm telling you, I don't say things back. With that, with that.

I got it, I got it. Now I do have that bad. Like I say, Jamiri, clean up your room. That nice stuff don't work. It does. And it's not just with her.

I didn't tell you to be nice. Like I'm not some parent that tells you to get rolled over on. There's so many times, my son has been on this stage and he has told everybody how strict I am. But there's a difference between being nice and getting rolled over and also understanding that in a moment when a child is being resistant, there's usually a deeper issue. But I wanna go talk to your daughters really quickly. I do appreciate y'all very much. Again, I don't think y'all are bad moms, but I do think that you have to watch your behavior because it's being mimicked. I'll tell you that much. Seriously. Let me go talk to your daughters real quick. How you doing? I'm good. Did y'all hear what I said to your mom? I didn't mean to cry.

You made my mama cry.

I know. It wasn't my intention to make her cry. I gotta tell you, I'm gonna just tell you the same thing she's already heard, that I don't think y'all are bad girls at all. I see the toughness, I see your strength. I actually think those are positive qualities that you have. And I actually don't think either of y'all I think y'all are in a space right now where something else has gone on. Like you heard me just say to your mom, they've been shutting y'all down. I didn't get any clarity on these stories. You fighting for a reason. And I don't think that reason is just because you're bad. It's because there's something else that you need to express, that you need to get through, that you need to heal from. You as well. You as well. Like y'all are both beautiful young women and I can also tell the way you articulate yourselves, y'all are smart. That strength could make y'all CEOs and bosses. But right now there's something else that is happening that has happened in your past and you might not identify it now that's making y'all feel like y'all gotta fight the world and y'all gotta be tough. And I'm sorry that you're going through that.

What I think my mom don't get is like, I have to respect everyone. No, respect is earned. Adult, child, it's earned.

Let me let you know, I 1,000% agree with you. And I believe the same thing comes when it comes to parents and child relationship.

Exactly.

What I mimic to my child is what I get back. And so if I want you to respect me, I need to respect you as well. And that doesn't mean that I'm gonna let my child run over me, but I also believe that there's something about listening to them, letting them express themselves again.

For sure.

So I see you.

Okay. Have a good day.

Yeah, I'm gonna wish y'all the best of luck. I think y'all gonna be dope. All right, y'all wanna come see y'all moms? Y'all can come back out there. And this time, try not to mimic their behavior. Anything y'all wanna say to each other before I go? 'Cause I know you crying. We're outta time, but I'm gonna follow up with y'all and give y'all some resources. Thank y'all so much for being here. Thank y'all, thank y'all. I got y'all. So I know we're here We're here for something serious. Tell me, when did you start having the problems with Kaylie?

It started last year. I currently was looking for a house, so we was in a shelter during this time. And she just blew off the rip. One of the people that, you know, 'cause we stayed there with other people. So as we there, they must have touched her soda or ice cream or something, I forgot what it was. And out the gate, she went in the room, it's only a room, we share a room. So she went in the room, They always touching my stuff. I'm like, "Kayla, well just get dressed. We can go to another store. It's only 8 o'clock." Yeah. You know, don't blow up. We, you know, we in the shelter. Yeah.

Yeah.

They always touching my stuff. So I go out, I ask the worker, "Hey, is there something else that y'all got in there for my daughter to drink before I go to the store?" "Oh no, well, you know, you can leave to go get something." That's what blew her off. I shouldn't have to get nothing and this and that. So now I'm trying to calm her down. She bucking at me, bucking. I'm like, "Hold on." So at this point, Yeah. I'm like, what's going on? And she tried to swing, like actually tried to swing on me.

Oh my God.

And the people at the shelter, they had to call the police because there's other family members there. And if they feel like I can't control you being your mom, you can't come.

Control him, that makes sense. Is Kayla your only child?

Yes, only one.

Wow, okay, so it's just you two?

Yes.

Got it. Is her father involved at all?

No.

Not at all.

He been left as the dad. When I was pregnant, he went to jail when I was 5 months pregnant. When he got out, she was 3. And he got married when she was 4, so.

He haven't been there. No. I'm sorry.

I try to give her the benefit of the doubt. And now that she see that I haven't whooped her, it's like she feel like she can whoop my ass. She feel like she the parent. I tell her something, I don't gotta do that shit. It's just that. I tell her to go to school. I'm not going to school. This was just last week, the welfare people called me, I gotta do a welfare check on Kaylee, she haven't been to school in a week.

And from your perspective, you thought she was going to school.

Hey mom, I'm going to school in the morning. Then she'll put her phone on DND. Okay, at 4:15 she'll turn it back on as if she was in school. She able to talk.

Okay, that makes sense. My gosh, you're going through a lot. I'm so sorry. I'm really sorry. Is it hard to discipline Kaylin?

Yes.

Yeah, it is.

Very hard.

Has it always been that way?

No, she was a great kid. I don't know where my daughter at. That's not my daughter. It's not.

How long ago did it start?

It started, I'll say last year.

Last year, so it's been about a year.

'Cause after the shelter, we moved to Mississippi and it got worser.

Got it, got it.

We was in a whole nother state, you know, it's down south, it's very different down there. So she got to the point where she really wasn't listening to me. She don't think she can do stuff and I'm not going to Milwaukee. I asked her to get, I say, well, okay, well since you wanna like boys and, and do all that, get on birth control. I'm not doing that. The doctor said I don't have to. You heard what they said. If your daughter don't want to get it, then she don't have to. Oh, you have to. I mean, I'm not gonna be no young grandmama.

Yeah.

Oh, you can go.

Is she disrespectful to other people?

Oh yeah, very.

Very?

Very. You can go.

Yeah. My producer told me that you called the detention centers this week to put her away there. Tell me about that.

She was so disrespectful. I just couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. Too disrespectful. So I called them, they ain't had no room that day, they was gonna call me back. So the day that I talked to your producers, just so happened they called me. I had just told like, hey, they called me, it's a spot for her, I think that's where she gonna go. If we leave this show today and can't nothing change, that's where you gonna have to go. A free bed, you ain't gotta worry about nothing, I ain't gotta worry about nothing.

But at least she's gotta go somewhere.

I pick and choose when I wanna come see you. But you ain't gonna pick and choose when you wanna leave my house, when you wanna listen to me, when you wanna— play mama role or be a teenager. You not finna pick which one. Don't tell me what you finna do. You gonna do exactly what I say when I say it.

Got it, I understand. All right, so everyone, let's hear what Kaylee has to say about everything. Please welcome Kaylee to the show. How do you feel about what was just said?

Now I kind of understand, but it's like, it's just a lot from both sides and some of it wasn't told correctly.

Okay.

So what part wasn't told?

What was not told? Your mom was asking.

So talk louder. What part was a lie? The shelter part.

So in the shelter you did not disrespect her?

So you did say you gonna be at the shelter. I did, but it wasn't as she told it. It was like most so both sides. She didn't go ask the worker that they have something else to drink. She was sitting there talking about the situation and I was on the phone being silent over there mad. And she kept going and kept going. She kept pushing the situation. So I finally said something back and we just started arguing. And I was like, shut up, shut up, put on my shoes. And I went outside.

Got it.

And then that's when the police got called because when I went back inside, sat in the living room, I had swung on her because she kept talking about the situation. She walked up on me.

Okay, so that's the story your mother described though. What part of it is different?

I just feel like it's different from my perspective.

Okay, and I'm ready to hear it. What part? 'Cause I'm trying to like make sure I hear your side as well.

The talking part. I feel like she say respect goes both ways. It's like you— If you act like a bitch, that's what you gonna be called. I be calling her bitches sometimes. I be like, what the fuck? Who finna keep saying, hey, Kaylee, just calm down? No, bitch, what the fuck wrong with you? What's wrong with you? Your bitch ass think you grown. That's how the fuck I talk to her. That's the truth.

So you're saying the only reason that you swung is because she stepped to you first and you felt like it affected you?

Yeah, and I kept telling her to move. Kept telling her. I reimbursed it like 2, 3 times.

Okay.

And she never moved. I'm like, "Kaylee, I'm like Kaylee, come on, let's just go to the store. Let's just go to the store. Put your stuff on, put your stuff on. Nah, move, move, move." At this point I'm telling her to come on. Now you see what I'm saying? When I'm telling you to do something, you wanna do the opposite. But when you was just ready to go drink your soda that was in the refrigerator, you was ready to go to the store. Now that I'm ready to, okay, if this what you mad about, let's go buy some more. Now you don't wanna go to the store 'cause you wanna sit here and keep yelling and get into it. And you waited until that white person walked in the living room for when she tried to swing on me. She knew if wasn't nobody in there, I would've tore a hole in her ass.

Why do you think your mother is frustrated with you?

I don't know. I don't know if it's 'cause I remind her of herself when she was younger or like— Oh! Oh! It's true.

It's true.

I don't know. I don't know. Even though I don't think I act like that. I don't even think I'm disrespectful at all. Oh, I tell her, you very disrespectful. I wonder where I get it from. Yeah. That's all she say. That's her favorite word.

Oh, do you say that?

That's her favorite word. I wonder why you don't get that from me.

Mm-hmm. Okay. So do you feel like you get your behavior from your mother?

I feel like I get mine— She run around with hoes all day, younger than her. That's where she get it from, 'cause them hoes ain't got respect for they mama. I don't act like them at all. And she even know that. She know I'm not a bad child. All day I sit at home in my room watching movies on the phone. Every time I come out, I get yelled at. If I stay in my room, I get yelled at. It's like, what do you want?

Yeah. Is that true?

I'm gonna tell you why I do that. You stand in your room, you stand in your room all day. You don't come out, cook, clean. You don't help me do nothing. You won't even prepare the food. I told her to wipe the stove. She wipe half of the stove. This the side that I'm using, so this the side that I'mma wipe. Who do that?

Is that true? Do you do that?

No, I did that one time.

Why did you skip school this month?

'Cause my hair wasn't did. And if I was to go to school with the little boys there, they'll like pick, like they'll try to pull off your hood or pull off my scarf. And I'm not finna be the type of person to sit there and just let somebody do that. I already knew it was gonna happen. Because why? Like I just wasn't finna do that or go through that, be nobody laughingstock.

How did your mom react when she found out?

She was mad. And I was telling her, I was like, well, my hair wasn't did. She missed 10 days up there in Mississippi, I automatically go to jail for 30. You already got 14 days. At any point in time this day, they can come pick me up 'cause you ain't been to school 'cause your hair ain't done. You go to jail after 50 days that a child has just not been at school. Well, it's after 50 days, so you wanna count these days up? Is she counting the days up for me to go to jail or what? If I tell you it's 14, well, it's only 55. So you got 20 more days to miss.

Have you ever run away from home before?

One or two times, but it wasn't home. It was actually from her, not from home. When we went to Milwaukee one time, I had run away from her. Out of the car? Out of the car at the lights. Okay, you telling the truth? Out of the car because I think we was talking about going back home and I was like, well, I don't wanna go back home. Oh, she wasn't ready to go home. I don't even got a half a tank of gas and you telling me when the fuck you wanna go? If this only gas I got to get us back to where we live at, who finna stay down here? 'Cause you wanna stay down here. What you wanna do down here? You don't got no job, I don't listen to you. Where are we gonna sleep at down here if our shelter all the way 45 minutes away? It's not up to you, you're not grown. Once again, what I say, you do. We had everywhere to sleep. She got friends, family. Who wanna keep sleeping there? I'm already sleeping in a shelter I don't even wanna be at. Who wanna keep sleeping by other people's houses? I don't even wanna be at the shelter. My name's so bad with evictions, I can't even find a house with $1,500 behind my neck. That's why we moved to Mississippi. Mississippi, I moved, I got right there, I got there, got a house, got her in school. She wanna play crazy, get a little boyfriend. Now this is where she really going crazy at. She know we 12 hours away. It's just me and her down there. We moved. It's just me and her, nobody else. And whoever else we done met down there. You got these people in my business. I got indictment court December 5th. December 5th from Mississippi. I had to pay $3,000 to get outta jail.

How long were you in there for?

For 6 days. So she was there by herself. The police locked me up. They didn't ask if I had somebody to watch her or nothing. So that's how CPS got in it.

Yeah.

But CPS knew she was old enough to stay at home by herself. So when I finally got out, paid the money, finally got out. So that month, September, we ain't had shit to pay rent. That's why we had to move to Mississippi too. I'm 2 months behind rent and the rent only $167, but I can't get a break if I gotta pay these 2 different bills, boss, but still make sure we eat. You gotta go to school, you need shoes and clothes. We got light gas. Man, dog, like hell nah, bro, I don't got no help. Like what the fuck? What the fuck do you want me to do? And you still on my ass about a hair, a shoe, a phone. We fucked up and we struggling, bro. And she not making it no better.

Yeah.

And then you wanna play crazy. Yeah, I'd rather give you up and sign my rights over if this how the fuck you finna treat me.

How does it make you feel when your mother says that? Like she wants to call attention to something.

At first I was like getting sad and emotional about it, but as time— She don't get no attention from my mama no way. You don't treat me like mama. Tell them the truth. Tell her, 'cause I'ma tell her. That wasn't what I said. What else you want me to do? If I know if I'm gonna come out my room, you gonna yell at me. So why would I?

Got it.

We don't have family time or nothing. We don't talk, we don't watch movies, TVs. We don't even, we'll probably text each other and we'll be in the next room.

What just made you start crying right there?

Huh?

What just made you start crying right there?

Because like, now that I'm finally on this show, it's like I really get to realize That's how she acts. And it's like she not even giving me a scenario of why. I don't know.

What do you want your mother to understand?

I want her to understand that like, I will be there to help. I will help every time you ask, but it's like you can't just go off yelling.

Do you regret having a daughter?

If she was a boy, she'd probably be better. 'Cause he'd be able to be freely, you know, he a boy, he can go outside and you can run away. I ain't gotta really watch you and put, you know, you can do stuff that what she trying to do. I can't just let you off the leash. She know exactly where I go. This creep said eat you up and chase you out.

So let me tell y'all something because I'm gonna be very real. This entire time that I've been on the stage, I've been fighting back tears. And it's because as I'm watching you two, I understand both of your perspectives so clearly. I understand what you feel as a young girl. I've seen some wild, wild teenagers. You're not it. Do you have a mouth on you? Yes. And you know it. Do you make decisions of like not going to school that can put things in jeopardy? Yes, you know it. But I also understand you as a parent and I understand when you are drowning and the one person you like, don't you realize I'm doing this for you? Is you feel like it's making it harder. Yes, I feel like I gotta lash out. Yes, I'm gonna be upset. Yes, I'm mad that you don't jump up as quick as I can. I'm doing everything I can. Can't you see that I'm moving here and there to make sure we're supported? I get you as well. And that's what's been making me so emotional because I understand both of your perspectives. And I also see the love here even through the way y'all talk to each other. I'm sure you're probably thinking like, "My momma really don't love me though." I'm sure you feel that way sometimes. Like, "Does she really care about me?" Yeah. And I also know for you as a parent, you like all these things I'm doing is to show you that I love you. But you're also exhausted.

I'm so tired.

Yeah, your daughter just said she doesn't know if, she sometimes doesn't know if you really love her. Take everything else outta the equation. Do you love your daughter?

Yeah. You know I love you. I've been loving you.

This is what I wanna do. I want to help you not to drown. So you said you need money for a deposit for a house. I got you. I'm gonna pay, I'm gonna give you cash. I'm gonna give you money. I'm not joking. You need money to get your credit and stuff together. I'm gonna pay for it. I'm gonna pay for it. I'm gonna pay for it. I'm gonna pay for it. Do you accept it?

Yes.

Good, it's yours. I promise your daughter and you can have a good relationship. Do you want a good relationship with your mom? Tell her.

I want a good relationship with you. I wanna be back how we was. Yeah, me too.

You do. Give your daughter a hug. Give your dad a hug. Growing up, who did you believe was your father?

As a baby, you don't really think of that, but everyone else was under the impression that Lonnie was the father since he was married to my mom. Yeah. You're adorable. And so yeah, when I was 7, they, my mother was not present, but They sat me down at the kitchen table and they began to tell me that they don't know who my dad is. And it was really hard to hear at such a young age. Thank you. You're welcome. And then they said they didn't know who it was. So I'm, for the next 3 years, going around questioning, who is my dad? Why doesn't he wanna be here?

Yeah.

And, um—

Knowing that knowledge, what was your childhood like? Was it hard for you?

It was really hard growing up because I really didn't have either parent. I'm living 3 states away, I don't know who my dad is, and my mom isn't allowed to, I'm not allowed to stay with her.

And when were you taken away from your mother and why?

I wasn't older than a year when I was taken away. And I don't honestly know The hardcore truth, when I try to talk to my mother about it, it gets shut down. But everyone else has told me that she left me with a friend and my sister with a friend for 3 days, did not come back.

And that friend called CPS like, "These aren't my kids, I don't know what to do." My producer told me that you did have some supervised visits with your mother, but those didn't really mean a lot.

Yes, we weren't allowed to, stay with her at her own home. So she would have to come over to the houses that we were staying at. So I didn't have the relationship with my mother that a little girl needed. And that was really hard because not only do I not know who my dad is, so don't have that relationship, my mom is right there and I can't have it.

Yeah, yeah. Did you still have contact with your mother after she was no longer in your life?

I don't speak to my mother anymore. I haven't spoken to her since November. Growing up, I went through all this hardship. So as I got older, I started having more self-love and worth for myself and knowing my worth. So I set boundaries for people.

What boundaries did you give your mother?

I wrote a whole page of boundaries. I, here it is here. I wanted personal space. I needed to be able to be open and be me and be honest about who I am without being judged or ridiculed or without being spoken to with a condescending tone. Because when I'm just trying to express myself and you tell me that I'm just trying to fight with you, that makes me feel like such a bad person. But at the same time, it makes me feel bad for wanting answers.

I'm so impressed by this. This is literally my only goal to teach people this. You gotta give me a high five. I am thoroughly impressed. Just that first line, giving personal space so I can be me. Don't invade my privacy. You better preach.

Growing up. Listen. Growing up was not only difficult for me because of not knowing who my dad is and all this other drama going on. When I would try to speak to anyone, especially my mother, about these issues and how they made me feel, They made me feel like I was a disappointment, like I wasn't wanted, like I did something wrong as a child to make him not want me. And that's not okay. It's not okay to make a child feel like that.

Did you know Lonnie growing up?

I have no memories of Lonnie. I don't know him.

Yeah, he's a stranger to you.

Exactly.

Who's on your birth certificate?

Lonnie.

Lonnie is on your birth certificate. Did your mother tell you who she believed your father is?

At the age of around 10, I was really questioning it 'cause I remember distinctly crying in a Walmart parking lot at 2:00 AM in the car Crying, why doesn't my dad want me? Who is he? I need a dad. This isn't okay. I'm watching all my friends go to father-daughter dances and all this stuff and I can't have that. And that was a terrible feeling because in school bullying is still a thing and I was always bullied for being that one little girl that didn't have her dad.

Yeah.

It's just made life so difficult because now I'm 18 still asking the same questions and I haven't even figured out who I am as a person 'cause I'm trying to figure out who all these people are that are supposed to be here.

Yeah, the unfortunate part is you're still trying to clean up a mess that was made by people that should have given you clarity and who should have supported you. And I'm glad that at least now here, you'll get some answers today. Everyone help me welcome Ruth to the show. I see you're emotional, Ruth. What's going on?

I don't know where to start because I mean, there's just so much going on and I'm— If you don't know where to start, I can start 'cause I have so many questions that I have wanted the answer to for 18 years. I would love that because the most frustrating thing for me in this situation is knowing that I've told you the truth no matter how bad it may be for you. But the thing is, I've been told so many things, I don't know what is the truth. I don't know who I can trust at this point. If I get told 7 different stories, how do I know who to believe? You're my mom, I should believe you, but I don't live with you. I got taken away from you, so who should I know how to believe? I'm the reason you got taken away. I've never denied that. No one else was around to help. I'm the one that fought for you. I'm the one that did all of that, and I'm the one that has tried to see you and be with you, and I'm the only one that got kept away from you. You're not the only one that got kept away from me. You know how many people I wanted I couldn't see them because of the situation that all of you created. Yes, her feelings are valid. Of course they are. Then show that. I have.

So Ruth, the reason that it comes across to your daughter is because I'm telling you she feels—

You can't, no, you can't not talk to me for 2 months and then act like I've said anything.

Ruth, we're gonna come back to you a little bit later 'cause I need to support your daughter right now. Can I cut that? Thank you. So the reason I'm telling you not to engage right now is because what I saw there was now a clearer picture of what you're experiencing. And I tried to give your mother the tools to understand what she was doing and what she was feeling and to how to understand what you're feeling. Can't acknowledge the hurt and pain the way you need her to for your childhood. And that's the sad part right now. And the reason I told you not to engage is because the answers you need is not from her. What you do need from her is an apology. What you need from her is acknowledgement. She's not in a place to give it to you yet. But what you can get here on this day is support from one of these men who are hopefully your father. So that's why I wanna move on. Everyone, please help me welcome Ray to the show so we get some real answers. Why didn't you see her for 18 years?

Her mom and I were really, really young at the time.

At the time.

We got involved in drugs and all the kids were taken. I tried to contact her throughout the years. She was taken away. I had no idea how to find her for a long time.

Understandable.

I tried everything I could. The only thing I knew about this young lady right here is she was in Alabama.

And when was that, that first time you reached out to her?

Probably over 10 years ago. I know that her I found her on social media and all her pictures at the time were young. That's actually what started the whole me being sat down at the kitchen table. It's 'cause he messaged me and I was like, who is this random person telling me they're my dad? What is this?

And that's how the conversation got it.

That's when they thought it was time to tell me and they told me and when they told me it did break my heart and I was wondering who this dude was.

And that's why you started to block him and start to figure out.

'Cause I was scared. It made me feel scared because why after 7 years are you trying to message me and get in contact with me? Where were you the other 7 years? 'Cause that's hard to, it's hard to understand as such a young child that things happen and there could actually be reasons that they can't be there. If I had that option, I would've been.

I have no idea where you were.

Look, there wasn't a day that went by that I did not think about this girl.

She—

I mean, there's a couple of songs that I've played for her that I listen to one of them every day religiously. That is my song to her. Very, very— this girl is my heart. The name of the song is, um, Zoe Jane by Stained. And he did embarrass me at karaoke by changing Zoe Jane to Anna Grace in front of everybody. Look, this is my Amy, y'all, I love this girl. This is my daughter no matter what. Look, we went so far as we've got matching tattoos here. We got this after we met last year as an adult. And this basically sums up everything. She is my missing puzzle piece.

I also wanna talk to Lonnie, who is the estranged husband or husband of Ruth, your mother, and hear his side of this entire story. So everyone help me welcome Lonnie to the show. So when was the last time you saw 'em? When was that?

Around 9 months.

When she was 9 months old? Got it. So this is your first time seeing her in person since she was 9 months old?

Wow.

How would you feel if you were not the father today?

It's gonna be like rehashing the nightmare.

Yeah.

Whenever I went through all that, I went to a very, very dark, deep place. I disconnected from everybody.

Yeah.

I cut off my family, I cut off my friends. I stayed in the furthest point away from everything that I could. I had to.

I'm gonna ask you this because even though we don't know the results, I do hear language that says that you could feel as if you're gonna regress. Do you have support either way, whether you're the father or not, to help you in this moment? You do. Okay, just wanna make sure. Just wanna make sure. I wanna go backstage and talk to Ray because something that's interesting is you have no ill will to Ray, but he has so much towards you.

It is brought on to him through Ruth.

Yeah. Because for you, you're like, I'm not mad, I'm not trying to take anything that's yours. Those were your exact words.

That's not my place.

Yeah.

And this is a much bigger picture than me, than him, than her. This is about this young lady right here.

Yeah. Got it.

I could have been in the position that he's in right now.

But do you understand that the person who put him in that position was Ruth?

I get that.

So even though you're mad at him, she was the one that said, "Oh, you're the dad. Let me come here." And he just tried to do the best he could do.

That's fair, and it's easier for me to hate him than it is to be mad at her.

Exactly.

Just be mad at her. It's not that big of a deal. I will, Anna.

Can you come back out?

Yes.

All right, come on out with me. I think it's time now to get this truth answered.

Can I just say something before you open that? Just like I stated earlier, I'm not here to take anything away from nobody. So no matter what you get there, I've done told you where I stand.

Good luck, baby.

I waited on this for so long. And you deserve it. It's here now. There's no more questions anymore.

This is a good first step in your healing.

Ray is my father. I told you. I knew it. I knew it. You have to have him. So now that that's out there, Can I just say that if Anna does wanna pursue any type of relationship with Lonnie, that's between her and Lonnie. I would never stand in the way of that. She deserves, she needs.

That's good, that's good, that's good. She needs all the support that she can get right now.

That's good, that's good, that's good. I tried, I tried.

No, you succeeded. You didn't try, you succeeded.

After this though, I have one more surprise for my daughter. I can say that officially now.

Yeah.

Thank you.

How you feeling? You feeling okay?

I feel a little overwhelmed, but also very happy that I finally got my results, but I also feel bad because we're gonna have a relationship, but I feel like I just broke his heart all over again.

But that's not your responsibility. That was Ruth. And Lani, I will say this to you. I'm very sorry that at a young age you got dragged into this because the thing is, is that this, that choice changed the course of your life in different ways from you getting angry and having to go back to jail. And I'm sorry and you deserved better. She said it when you came out and I just wanna acknowledge that no one in here is gonna look at you as a bad person. I'm glad that the world is gonna be able to see the man you are. And hopefully that gives you a little bit of a vindication that the world actually gets to see like, this wasn't all me. Somebody else played a role in this life, but you made the best of it. And I'm thankful for you. I really am thankful.

I want to personally thank you and your producers. But with that being said, I do have one final surprise for my daughter. Effective immediately, I am relocating to Alabama. When I said earlier that 17 and a half years have been taken away from us, nothing, we're not missing any more days. We're gonna figure out who you are together. I am leaving for Alabama Saturday night or Sunday morning.

It's a lot, right? What I'm glad about this is that I know that's abrupt, but what I'm happy about this is that this hopefully today can also start to heal a little bit of the abandonment issues you have. You have two men.

Yeah, I ain't going nowhere.

Two men that are supporting you, that still love you. You have one that's going to try to move closer to be there to support you. So thank you. I also thank you for stepping up. And I appreciate the woman that you are growing to be. You don't You do not change, okay?

Thank you so much. I feel as though Jaleah is a sex addict and if I can't get through to her, I feel as though she's going down the wrong path to nowhere.

Okay, I got it. So for me, I'm not gonna use the term sex addict 'cause I haven't met her yet.

Okay.

But I heard you say earlier that she's boy crazy.

She's boy crazy.

So tell me, why do you think she's boy crazy?

I think she's boy crazy because she is literally obsessed with this boy. With romance. Every single thing has to have something to do with being in a relationship, something to do with how boys make her feel. Even from a very young age, everything was about, oh, do you think this boy loves me? Everything is literally about affection.

What other behaviors have you noticed?

Oh my God. I have noticed that when I take Jalia's phone, every single message in her phone is her talking to different boys about different ways that they can please her and her please them. Literally.

You told my producers that she had sex in a staircase?

Yes, in a school staircase.

Tell me about that.

The only reason that I know that she did that is because when I went through her phone, I found her having multiple different social media accounts with like different names. And it makes me feel really scared because I feel as though if you can catfish people and talk to these different people, What else could you really do? I'm afraid that if she is to go out, that she won't come back home.

I can hear the trepidation in your voice.

Yes.

And I can see the passion through how you're acting right now because this is your little sister.

Yes, and I love her so much.

Yeah, and I think that's what we have to remember is that this is your little sister that you see. She's 16.

Yes.

Yeah. You sent us messages that you found on Jaleah's phone. Here, I wanna go through these messages if you gave us.

Absolutely.

"All right, see if you did stay after school tomorrow, we could have sexual situations and I can give you a hickey." These are different boys, by the way.

They're not the same guy.

Yeah, I don't wanna go too deep into this thing.

Yeah, but it's very—

But it gives me context of what's really going on.

Yeah.

Yeah. What was your reaction when you found these?

I was scared.

Yeah.

I was disappointed more than anything else. You talked to her about it? I did talk to her about it. She just lied about everything.

Okay.

And it's crazy because she looks so innocent. She has a really soft voice. She's a very pretty girl. She's highly intelligent. And so she really does know how to articulate herself. And I feel as though she is very, like, I just believe that she's sneaky and very deceptive. If you don't know her, you could fall into her spell. My girlfriend that's in the audience, she really plays a major role in this situation with helping me with Jaleah as well. And that's some of the things that she's also said.

Kwani, thank you for being here so much.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate you being here because I do want to get your perspective.

'Cause I know from what I read, you encouraged Deonna to take in Jaleah.

Yes.

Tell me why.

I just felt like she was going down the wrong path. She didn't have no structure, no guidance, no nothing. She didn't have no one to look up to, none of that.

But do you feel like Jaleah's not just struggling with sex? You feel like there's other issues?

Yeah, absolutely.

What are the other issues you feel like?

She's struggling with a lot. It's like a lot going on in her mind. And I be trying to get her to let it out, let us in, you know? So we can help her out. But it's like once we get in and then we try to help her, she go the wrong way. I'm a teenager. I just turned 16 years old not too long ago. I feel like, why am I getting treated this way when every teenager did the same thing I did? Audience, so you guys were having sex? And on the stairwells at age of 15? Most definitely wasn't acting like that at that age. Okay, so like, no, that's not good enough.

You told my producers that you feel like Deonna and Quani don't trust you. Why do you say that?

They don't because they are basing it off of my past on what I— Your past. My past on when I was little and up to this day because I never got help. Nobody never took me nowhere to go get my mind straight and everybody just left it for me to handle it on my own. And I feel like that that's not okay.

It sounds like you know that you're not acting right, that you're acting out. You're aware.

Yes.

Okay, so if you're aware that you're not doing the proper thing, can I ask you why? Because I heard you just say there's reasons. So I'm gonna ask you why. What are the reasons?

There's reasons because of everything that I've been through since little. The split with my parents, to me bouncing around house to house, to seeing what my mother did growing up. To seeing that my father is nowhere to be found, and now growing up to see that my mother is not even taking care of her own child. Oh, hell with Jaleah. Oh, she, we don't, it's like I felt like I wasn't wanted, like I was not supposed to be there. And when I figured out that my mother was in town all these times, it hurt me and I wanted to go with her because I don't know her. I really don't know her. And when I lived with her for that month, I was trying to get to know her, but she was not paying attention. She was always under the influence with drugs and drinking. And any time that she would pay attention to me is when she was under the influence, and I hated it.

Come here. Come here. I'm sorry. Come here.

Come here.

It's okay. I know. It's okay.

Thank you, Dad. I don't feel heard. Everybody looks at my mistakes instead of looking at the background like, oh, this little girl is hurt. She has been abandoned not once but twice by both parents. Her parents are not paying attention. I wanted my mother's attention and her presence. And when I got in front of my mother, it was hell. And I'm looking, all this promiscuous stuff, that was because of little, 'cause she didn't know how to filter herself around people. She had sex in front of me at the age of 7. 6.

I'm sorry.

That's why I'm like this. And then in the last place that they sent me, I got raped and that made it so much worse.

You know about these things?

I didn't know about this.

You didn't know?

Yes.

Okay.

And I understand that Kwani and Deonna is trying to help out for me, but I just don't need it from them. I want it from my actual parents.

Yeah, you want it from your mom?

I want it from my mother and my father, but they're nowhere to be seen.

Yeah.

And the reason why I said I'm gonna keep doing this and I'm gonna keep doing that is because I felt like I was put in an adult situation my whole life. I had to find ways to get food by myself with my mother. I had to beg people. I had to beg people. And she don't even speak to me. Yeah. She ghosted me. This is so true.

What do you say to all this when you hear this?

I really feel feel really bad because I know that she's really struggling internally. This is not something that I am ignoring. The reason why she's not in therapy at the moment is because it took a while for me to transfer her information from North Carolina here. First of all, she was homeless or whatever the case may be, but her mother is actually her legal, you know what I mean? But I have legal guardianship now. My mother missed every single last one of my birthdays because of drugs and alcohol and chasing boys. And that's why the way that I am, and it's not intentional. I'm still trying to adapt to this situation 'cause I'm not used to being in a different state with different people, especially with my sister.

How long y'all been together?

Kwani and I?

Yeah.

5 years.

Okay, no, how long have y'all been living together?

She's been living, going on a year now.

A year, 1 year?

Yes. One year, literally.

Okay, makes sense. First of all, can I tell you, and y'all gonna, I want y'all to give some applause for this young lady. You are a very smart and vulnerable and beautiful young woman. Y'all are doing the best, but as adults, sometimes we get frustrated, we are at our wit's end, we don't know what to do, and we don't realize that the language we're using reinforces even more negative behavior coming out.

Okay.

Yes. She's lying to you all. Point blank, we know it. Yes, she's manipulating you all when she can. But you do understand that that's not always a negative behavior. It's a point of protection for her. She's trying to protect herself because that's the only way she's known how to protect herself their entire life. Do y'all get that?

I get it.

How do you feel about it?

I feel like we not the ones that's doing that to you. We trying to give her a better life growing up. My mother was strict with me and I'm literally just doing what my mother would've done to me. Yeah. And that's all I'm doing.

Yeah. But see, your mom was in the house.

She was.

So therefore you had a context in your mind of that. No one's gonna abandon me. No one's gonna try to hurt me. No one's gonna try to leave me.

Yeah.

But when you are strict with her, it just reminds her of every person who said, I'm fed up with you.

Right.

And I'm done.

I have a question.

Yeah, come on.

So what was her excuse when she was with her mother?

She lived in a house of turmoil always. Like for her to say right now that at 6 years old she saw her mother having sex.

Yeah. Yeah, that's crazy.

It don't matter if you with your mom. The minute that you, just because you're there doesn't mean it's not pure dysfunction. And y'all keep saying, both of you, and I wrote it down, you said, I feel like it's disrespect. She's disrespecting us. It's disrespect. But I need you to remember this. It's not disrespect, it's pain you're seeing.

I do my best to encourage her a lot.

No, I heard it up here. When she started telling her story, I saw a whole different person flip. You started to get into like sensitive mode.

Yeah, 'cause I was frustrated.

But the thing is, when you're frustrated is the point I'm talking about.

Yeah.

I'm not talking about when you, I'm not talking about when it clicks in. I'm talking about when you're frustrated at your wit's end, that's when I need you to remember what I'm teaching you right now.

Okay.

This is a child that's in pain. Yeah. Because it's easy when she's doing good to be like, oh, I see your pain, I love you and I see it. But it's hard for us as adults to see her pain when she's done something that aggravates us.

Creates us. Okay, so I understand what you're saying.

And I just wanna point out one more thing to you. Her language, she kept saying normal teenagers do this. This is normal teenagers. That's her way of saying I'm doing this because no one taught me what it is to be a kid and I'm doing what I think normal teenagers do.

Okay, okay.

She thinks she's being a normal teenager. That's why she's frustrated because she's like, this is what all teens do. She's like, I'm doing good grades, I'm still here, I'm not pregnant. She's taking these things and she's like, I'm just being a regular kid. We as adults, we understand what she's doing.

Yeah, right.

We understand how damaging this could be.

You know, she gotta understand the role that we play too. She have those good grades because of us.

But like, so this is where you now start positive reinforcement.

Okay.

So when I bring her back out right now, I want y'all to, I need y'all to do something for me.

Okay.

I need y'all to apologize. Apologize to her for her language.

Okay.

Okay. Because I don't think there's been an adult in her life who's told her they're sorry. You took it in your heart to bring her in.

Yes.

And you are an amazing human being for that. You as well.

Thank you.

There's not even blood for you and you over here doing so much. Amazing human being.

Thank you.

So since you made the choice to take her in, you gotta make the decision to do the things that are gonna help her. So that's why I know y'all are not responsible for all the things she went through, Well, the healing has to start somewhere and it can start with you all. I see you getting emotional.

What's going on? Yeah, so I don't know. I just, I really care about her.

I know you do. Can I hug her? Yes, of course you can. I know you do.

I really love my little sister.

I know you do.

It's so hard to see her go through this, you know?

It's easy for us to think that kids who've gone through stuff need tough love, but it's actually the exact opposite. Love should never be tough. So y'all can commit to apologizing to her for the language. So I'm gonna bring her back out and that's gonna be the first step. Can y'all commit?

Please.

All right, cool. Can we bring her back out?

Yeah, I really apologize for the language that I used when I talked to you. I just really, you know, love you a lot. I didn't really think that until just now that the language that I was using was possibly influencing you to feel less than or worse. And I apologize. And you know, moving forward, I want to definitely adopt a different vocabulary moving forward. I love you so much. I really, really want you to know that. I apologize too. I really do. I want you to know that we'll never give up on you. We'll never give up on you. We always gonna be here for you no matter what you want to do with your life. We gonna be here. We gonna stand behind you.

That got you emotional quickly. What was it about what they said they got you.

That's all I ever wanted to hear. Come on, give her a hug. Give her a hug. Give her a hug. Good job. I love you too, it's gonna be all right.

Now you know that you got people here that love you and they just told you they're not gonna give up on you. And so I know that's sometimes hard for you to believe. You're here right now, but you might get home and you might be like, I don't know if I can trust this. But you gotta find the courage in yourself to trust this. She loves you. They both love you. They wanna be here for you and they're gonna do everything in their power to be here for you your entire life. We all agree you got a bright future ahead of you. Yeah, you do. You're a smart young woman. And I'm not going to shame you just because you've made choices to have sex. I'm not gonna shame you for that. What I'm gonna do is encourage you to say, understand that you can protect yourself, understand your power, understand your beauty, and understand that people love you, wanna be there for you. And now when it comes to your mother, there's something big I need you to hear, 'cause I know you want your mom, but your mom has an addiction. Until the addiction and your mom are separate, she's not gonna be able to give you what you need. I'm sorry because you don't deserve that. But I think if you can understand that your mom is still in there. Yeah, take some tissue. Your mom is in there, she loves you. I know it feels like she doesn't because you feel like she abandoned you. She does love you. It's just the addiction has a hold of her. You understand? So I'm saying this to you so you can understand. Yeah, okay, my mom does love me. She doesn't hate me, I'm not hated. But the addiction is clouding her. And one day I pray that the addiction will be gone. And I promise you, she's gonna try to show up and give you the love. And hopefully as a young woman, having this language of understanding the difference between your mom and the addiction will maybe help you to say, you know what, let's try to talk it out. But understand that right now she's not gonna be able to give you what you need, but you have people who can. Can you receive that?

Yes, sir.

We love you and we believe in you, okay?

Thank you.

All right, you got your family.

My daughter got pregnant and had a child at 14, and that was pretty embarrassing as a father. I always felt that a girl who had her father in her life wouldn't end up a teen mom. It made me feel like a failure because obviously I'm not doing something right for her to feel like she needs to go out and get that type of attention. When she was growing up, my daughter, she was like my best friend. You know, she was like a little me. Laugh about the same things, we could talk about the same things. Out of all my children, she knew me the best. I don't know if we can ever get that relationship back. My daughter, she started running away when she was 12, 13 years old. It was hard to keep up with her. My grandmother was her only real female figure for most of her life. Her mother wasn't wasn't the most stable, so my grandmother picked up where she kind of fell short. It was like overnight when she turned into a teenager. It was just like a flip of a switch about her behaviors, you know. I always assumed that when they got older, things would get easier. I have a hard time trying to figure out if I should treat her like my child or the mother that she is. I never thought I would have to say that about my daughter. After feeling ashamed because my daughter's pregnant, pregnancy. I forgave her and when she gave birth to my granddaughter, I allowed them back into my house. We live in the same house, but we have a very distant relationship. She's her own woman, so to speak, as a mother. But at the same time, she still acts like a child. She made grown-up decisions, so now it's time for her to stand on that. She needs to stand on parenthood right now.

Everyone, we'll meet Jeffrey shortly, but let's hear his daughter's side of the story first. So everyone, please welcome Jamiah to the stage. Jamiyah, thanks for being here.

Thank you.

So first of all, I wanna make sure that everyone at home knows and everyone here, you're 17 years old.

Yes.

So this takes a lot of bravery and courage for you, first of all, to be here and to trust me to help you have a conversation with your father. So thank you.

Thank you.

How do you feel about hearing what your dad just said in the clip?

Honestly, it hurts, but it's not a surprise. It hurts really bad, honestly, to hear that my dad's embarrassed of me because I always felt like he was, but I never had the confirmation till now.

So did your dad raise you alone?

No, he didn't. My grandmom, she raised me ever since I was a baby up till I was 12 when she passed away.

Oh, got it. And so when your grandmother passed away at 12, what was the relationship like then with you and your father?

Together? I really feel like it switched because around the time my grandma passed away, she was still in the hospital, and I was like, is Grandma okay? Like, is she going to come home? And he was like, yeah, she's okay. And I'm scrolling through Instagram, and I'm looking at stories, and somebody, a relative, posted my grandma saying RIP. All right, it's I had to find out from social media that my grandma was gone.

Yeah, okay, I understand.

I'm trying not to like, it's like that's really where my trust for my dad broke.

With your mother, was she in your life?

She's there but she's not. It's like my mom, she goes through her own personal stuff. I feel like she couldn't really be there for me, like how I needed her. But really I was a daddy's girl, so I more so wanted to be with my dad anyway.

Oh yeah.

I really felt like I didn't really ever have like stability like growing up.

Well, so you got pregnant at 14?

Yes.

And how did your dad react?

I didn't, I don't know. I didn't tell him. My grandma told him.

Got it. And how did your life change when you had your daughter?

Well, she made me a better person. Like my dad, my dad's saying like he makes me stand on business, but I feel like I stand on business by myself.

Well listen, I appreciate you telling me your side of the story, but I also wanna hear from your father. So everyone please welcome Jamiah's father Jeffrey to the show. Hey Jeffrey, thank you for being here. Hey, how you doing? I'm good. How do you feel about what your daughter's been saying?

I feel like you should be more considerate about me working multiple jobs. If I'm working at psychiatric hospital overnight and then going and doing case management in that morning and you telling me that you texting my phone about groceries when you're really supposed to be in school at that time, that's, to me, that's frustrating. It's like you could be more considerate about my day, what I'm going through, because I had all the plans in the world to buy groceries that day when I got off, to buy something for you and my granddaughter. But I feel like the kids today, including you, y'all have too much access to your parents. You get to text my phone while I'm at work. I didn't get to do that with my grandparents.

Got a question for you. How did you react when you found out she was pregnant?

Yeah, I mean, I was hurt 'cause there was a pregnancy scare before. And to get past that and then to find out that she was pregnant officially, that was embarrassing. That hurt. It was like, if you got a whole active father in your life and that's how you do, like— You see that I remember when you told me it's better to have a fully absent father than a half-stepping father.

Do you feel like your father's half-stepping?

Yes, I feel like you provide a house for me, you do, and there is food for the most part, but I still need you in other aspects. I don't just need you to—

Do you feel like you failed her as a father? Do you feel like that?

Well, at the time when my grandmother passed, definitely. I wasn't there. I was real selfish because that was my grandmother. I didn't know how to tell my daughter that she was on life support. It was never in my heart or really my thought process to think that I was gonna let my grandmama go. Go. Like, I could never pull the plug, so to speak. And so things was kind of simmering with, I felt like my daughter's behavior at that time, she was kind of, she was running away still. She was kind of being unruly at that time. And so I didn't know how to give her that information that I had had about how big of, you know, situation it was with my grandmother.

That makes sense. What does it feel like hearing your father say that?

Honestly, I don't get it. Like, I feel like a parent should always be upfront with their child no matter like how it's gonna hurt. 'Cause I already seen her on life support before she passed away. Like, I was already there. Like, we was in the hospital with her. So if she was gone, like, I feel like you shouldn't have just, you shouldn't have said she's okay. You should have been like at least, said, "Jamiyah, I'm sorry, but grandmom passed away." You could've sat me down. You as my oldest though, you as my oldest, where does your heart come in for your father? I have a lot of heart for you. A lot. I feel like I'm very concerned for you. How you think I'm supposed to process that woman? You know what she meant to me to you? But Dad, I was 12. How am I supposed to think like that?

Why are you shaking your head?

Because she's 12, she's my oldest, and she's sitting here, single mom. You know, there's certain things, there's certain expectations. I tell my daughter, I said, you know, you have to figure out your identity in this family.

Got it. How do you feel about your father saying that he has to have those expectations?

It hurts 'cause like I got expectations for you too. Like I feel like we both have expectations for each other and it's like, Like your expectations for me is so high, like so high. But I don't even, I feel like I don't even really expect that much from you. Like I just really be wanting a conversation from you half the time.

Do you feel like you have conversation with her?

Yes.

You do? Or why do you think she doesn't feel that way?

It's probably not as it was back in the day. Like when she was little, I mean that was my buddy, that was my road dog. Like I remember us sitting in the car Listening to music, dancing. You know, we got a similar sense of humor. I remember her laughing and hearing, you know, little pieces of my laugh and her laugh and it was like, you know.

Yeah. I'm getting a ping right now. Before this show, Jamiah's mom Vanessa wrote her a letter that she wanted me to listen to.

Jamiah, I wanna apologize for not being the mother you needed and you deserved. If I could do things differently, I would. I will forever be grateful to your father for stepping up and raising you. Not a lot of men would do that, and I know he has done the best he can. I hope you can mend your relationship with him. I don't want you to lose the first man who showed you love, your number one protector. I love you so much. Mama.

Have you ever heard your mother apologize before like that?

My mom, like, if she feels like she's wrong, like, or if I tell her how I feel, yeah, she'll apologize. But most of the time, like, I'll just keep everything in 'cause like, I value my parents. I don't wanna hurt their feelings. Like, I don't want them to feel like they're not doing anything right. Like, I do hold in a lot. So I don't hurt my parents' feelings. I do.

I noticed you rolled your eyes a little bit when she was saying that. What was your thoughts in your head?

I do care about my daughter. I do want what's best for you and I do expect more from you. I want you to be an example. And that type of thing that was printed in my head when you went and had a baby was rupture, that was hurt. I mean, I'm standing on business like my granddaughter lives with me and my daughter lives with me. I'm hurt, but we're still going through it. Yeah, and like, yeah.

I gotta, hold on, I gotta say something for you because this is the thing. I know your daughter didn't use protection, but she still needs your protection. She still needs your attention as well. And I hear you when you're saying you're embarrassed. I'm hearing when you say these things. I gotta be very honest with you. There's a lot of you that I see in myself. And I also understand that feeling of like, I am so overwhelmed I'm trying to work, trying to do every single thing. I'm busting my ass, I'm trying to save every dollar. And I just get frustrated because I used to have this issue with my sons. I used to come home and one day I realized that I don't give them the same patience that I gave the rest of the world.

Thank you.

And I'm not saying that you don't make her a priority because I understand you said you stand on business and I see what you're trying to do. You see what you're doing. You're saying like, I still got my daughter in the house. I get where you're coming from, I really do. I'm hearing your 17-year-old daughter tell me that at 12 she started to lose, she lost her great-grandmother who was close to her. Yeah, I know you were grieving, but she doesn't even know how to process that. Imagine if you're at, how old were you at the time? 34, 35? 34. If you're 34, somewhere around there, if you're in your 30s and you couldn't process it, how was she supposed to process it? She's already had a household where trust has been broken. She doesn't know if her mom's gonna be there. And now she feels like she can't even talk to you anymore. Please tell me what you feel about what I just said.

Jamiah, you have to know sincerely that I love you. And my expectations of you is because I know what you're capable of.

I definitely am going to send you for some father-daughter parenting classes.

Do you feel like a father's love is conditional?

Yeah, it shouldn't be though, because I think one of the things as parents we do is we love to love our kids when they're at their best, but then we don't know how to love 'em when they're at their worst. And that's just the truth. I want you to remember she's a teenage girl who just had a baby. Hormones already on fleek with being a girl that on, Yes, she's going to have to learn how to manage them, but that's the job as a parent. When she's disrespectful, it's not because she just wants to wake up and disrespect you. It's because something else going on in that mind when she's 17 years old, doesn't know if she's gonna be stable, just had a mom who had to apologize for not being a mom. There's stuff going on. And I know you want her to be perfect, but she's a human. Can you give your daughter a hug? You were heard and you were brave and you were strong and hopefully you know how impressed we all are with you. Okay?

Thank y'all.

Let me tell you one thing you should never be is embarrassed by this little girl. This woman is, this young woman has a bright future. Okay? Just please be there. To be patient with your daughter and to listen to her and just have a conversation. All right? I wish you the best of luck.

I wish both of you the best of luck. Thank you.

Everyone, thank you for being with us. Make sure to come back next time, friends, so we can keep talking and we can keep growing. I love you all.

I was shot 9 times and my son was shot twice. My daughters, they all was in the house. It was a home invasion. Everything did change in an instant on that morning. I'm paralyzed from the waist down and I'm in a wheelchair. My son Kwani was only 11 at the time. He was shot twice in the legs. Um, Mimi was 8. My baby was a couple weeks old. The trauma is definitely, definitely still real for us. And now I feel like I'm fighting another battle for my daughter's life. Maylana's 14 and she acts like an adult. She be getting suspended from school. She be stealing from the store. She disrespecting me, calling me all type of names. We was arguing and then she said, "Stand on it. Oh, I forgot you can't." So that was the hurtfullest thing she ever said to me. Maylana Laura needs to know as long as I'm around, she's not gonna be that baddie that she claims that she wanna be. My kids need to know whether I'm in this wheelchair or not, I'm still their mother. When I first got shot, I was very like, you know, mean, like I didn't even wanna be here. So I was a certain kind of way where, you know, that probably could turn somebody away from me. But like I said, I didn't want to be here. I was going through something. So I feel like right now I'm kind of trying to redeem myself with them a little bit. It changed everything from respect to everything.

It changed respect. In what way do you feel like it changed respect?

Because they don't respect me from this sheriff. They don't listen to anything that I say.

Is your daughter, has she become negative and argumentative with you?

Gabby.

Uh-huh, in what ways?

I can't tell her nothing. She's not in school, she was kicked outta school. She stole from the stores, but it's all because of other people, like, 'cause when we lived somewhere else, she didn't do it.

And she fighting at school too?

She was fighting in school, physical with the teachers as well. I be feeling like school could make you, you know, not, Like your kids, 'cause they always calling, you know? So, and that's what I be trying to tell Mimi, like, it's like things gimme a reason to be mad at you. Like I be just minding my business and either you do something where the cops gotta be knocking at my door or the school is calling me.

[Speaker:KARAMO] Yeah, that's the realest thing I've ever heard anybody say. And I've never heard anybody say this, but I just took myself back to when my son was in 9th grade and he was having some problems. When you just said school will make you feel like you don't like your kid, that is the re— I mean, every time my phone rang when I was at work, I was like, you a damn lie. My phone isn't. I was like, you a— my phone is not ringing again. And it was like my frustration was just, I've never heard anyone put it like that, but it is the realest thing I've ever heard.

And then it's the stuff that they tell you.

Yeah, of course. No, I get it. Yeah, I feel you. That's why when you said that, I was like, I understand what you mean.

And then when I'm telling her what they're telling me, She'll buck up at me like, why you getting mad at me for them telling me what you did?

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I gotta ask you, what do you remember about that day in August of 2018?

When I woke up, my mom was on the floor. She told me to go outside 'cause she got shot. So I went outside and I called the cops and they came.

Got it. And what do you feel like your mom does not understand about you?

That I'ma do stuff And she's not going to accept that. Like, yes, I'm gonna go outside with my friends and she always want me to go in the house and do chores every day. And I'm not finna do that.

What kind of chores does she want you to do?

Like the dishes and shit. I'm not finna do that. You're lying. I do my own dishes. You're lying. Clean up after the cats. You're lying. And I do. And you don't. Mm-hmm. Anyways.

You do realize teenagers have chores, right?

Mm, okay.

That we all get. Okay, for sure.

That we all get. She was able to get $80 a week, right? Right? She got it one time. First of all, she didn't give me the money. I gave you $40 'cause I said I'm gonna hold $40. I'm smart. You didn't hold $40 up. Where's my other $40 though? Oh. You didn't do it the next week. Whatever. What? Think about it. Be for real though. Why would I give you the whole $80? I explained everything to you. I still don't know. You're gonna get $40. And then I'mma hold $40. Did you clean up the next week to even get another $40? To even be able to save another $40? Did you? Okay, I tried, but— You never consistent. We can have heart-to-hearts. First of all— We can have all that and it doesn't get to you. I do do my chores too. When my brother was in a program doing my chores, you're just ungrateful. That's all.

You said—

And then you tell me that I don't do chores. Okay, yes I do. If you did what I gotta tell you to do it, then make it make sense. And y'all can shut the fuck up too. Make it make sense. All right, so.

What's going on? What just made you say that?

Because they keep, yeah, like if you got something to say, say it.

Because they were having a reaction to how you acted?

Yup.

Okay. Tell me from your opinion, why did you get kicked outta school?

'Cause I was fighting and I got a smart mouth.

Mm-hmm. Where you think you got the smart mouth from?

Her.

Okay. And why were you fighting at school?

Because these got me fucked up.

And what do they have you messed up about?

They pop like it won't do nothing. But these is people that be friends. These is people that be friends though. These is people that be friends. Friends, that she'll sneak out the window and do all type of shit and then y'all fight.

Okay, okay. And I heard you was stealing stuff. You was stealing makeup and hair stuff. Hair dye?

Yep.

You told my producers something that they just told me, which is you think your mother uses her wheelchair to make people feel sorry for her?

Yep. How the fuck can I use this wheelchair to make people feel sorry? Because you do that. I do everything by myself. Okay, Karamo, watch your mouth. Like I said, Explain. Explain. Like, nobody was not coming at you crazy. Explain. Like I said, she talked to her friends. Don't waste your breath. Explain. Why you still talking though? I'm talking to him. Explain. Like I said, she literally talked to her friends about me. And all she say is, I'm in a wheelchair, yeah, she gonna do this in a wheelchair, in a wheelchair. Yeah, 'cause you pop. Like, if I was standing up, you wouldn't be doing none of this shit. You don't know that. You don't know that. You are a liar. I'm not lying, you're lying. Since we moved to our new house, you've been cleaning my house? Yes! It was only me and the host. I'm not lying. I'm not even playing right now. I ain't even playing with y'all. I'm not lying, you are.

You talking about producers that your mom used to hit?

Yes, she maces me.

And Joe? You do?

Yes, sir. She put her hands on me. Did you hit me with a bottle? You're lying. It's your mom, man. No, Maymay, you ain't hit me in my head with a bottle. No. Oh my God, Maymay, you ain't hit me in my head with a bottle. I'm not lying.

Well, Maymay couldn't hit me in the head with a bottle.

It's like I said, she literally hit me in the head with a bottle. I didn't. Go get my phone.

What happened? What's in the phone?

Go get your phone. You really lying? Get your phone. Did you hit me in my head? I didn't. So you did not hit me in the head with a bottle? No, I didn't. She literally come in my room and maces the whole room. It's literally orange on the wall. You literally threatening to make me turn. I'm not lying. Okay, I'll make you again. You hit me with a bottle. And what you talking about? I did not, bro. You ever lie on me? I'm not lying.

I'm gonna let you go back.

Stop me. Okay, you got me. No, you are lying.

Yeah, so that you can see it. And then bye to you too.

You mad? Yeah, you're not even talking to yourself.

She says that her and your brother are survivors. That's what she constantly says. My producers told me you said she always says they're survivors. Does she call you a She doesn't call you a survivor?

Mm-mm.

Mm, got it, got it. See, like I said to you, I saw the real you. You're 14 years old and I know the behavior we all watch, we're seeing you mimic it. We heard how your mom talks to you, so we know why you talk this way. So I don't blame you and I don't think you're a bad person either. I actually think you're pretty intelligent. I actually think you're pretty responsible. I actually think a lot, I think very highly of you, even with what I saw on this stage.

Thank you. I do.

I do believe you when you said that you have been taken care of a lot. When it feels like it's my responsibility where I feel like I don't know how to have a time to just be a kid. When I feel like I'm always having to do something and it's been years compounded. To your mom, it might seem like, oh, you're lazy today. But for you, it feels like I've always been doing this, right?

Yes.

Yeah, I know. Talk to me about what you're going through.

I'm going through a lot. Like, it's just how my mom just don't understand me at all. And I'm like, talk to her. I've been trying to talk to her, but I just really can't talk to her.

What do you want her to know?

Like how I'm feeling when she's calling me out my name and stuff.

How do you feel?

Like she brings me down. She talks about me. She calls me a whore. I'm not a whore. I know who I am. I don't know, but like.

Yeah, so it brings you down. If your mom's calling you out your name every minute, Like, yeah, it can bring you down and make you react a certain way. I totally understand. I'm not saying it's right. So hear me out. I'm not saying it's right, but I understand it and I get it and I don't blame you. Does it feel nice to have somebody who understands you a little bit?

Yes.

Yeah, I can imagine. I talked to her. But can I ask you this? And this is where we gotta take accountability as adults if you was his parents, would you talk to another little 14-year-old girl the way you talk to her?

I do.

You talk to other 14-year-old girls on the street like that?

If they saying something to me smart, is that what you mean? 'Cause I'm not just gonna come up to a 14-year-old girl and be mean to her. And we not gonna make it seem like she came outta me and I was talking to her like that. We not gonna make it seem like that either.

I'm not gonna make it seem like that.

So over time, this is somebody I gotta be around that'll look at me In a wheelchair, somebody tell me to stand on that. Oh, I forgot you can't. Oh, that's some kid shit to you?

That's still a kid.

Oh.

'Cause you know kids say nasty things.

Oh, they do?

And unfortunately they say nasty things to their parents sometimes too.

Oh, I did not know that. I did not know a kid would say that to their mother.

Yeah, I've heard worse.

That's crazy. That's a shame.

It is a shame.

It's a shame.

But what I want you to understand is that it doesn't make it right. And I'm sorry she said it to you because you've been through a lot.

What I'm supposed to say? Oh baby, don't say that shit. What I'm supposed to say?

I didn't say that.

Tell me. No, I want you to tell me for real what I'm supposed to say. I really honestly wanna know. Like I really do.

I will tell you that matching her energy is not gonna help you to figure out what to say or to figure out how to make this relationship better.

So I'm just supposed to feel this small as a child?

I don't think you should feel this small as a child.

It's saying something to me.

But it's the communication.

Even if I'm telling her to leave me alone, get out my face, none of that works? I still just gotta be the bigger person?

Unfortunately.

Oh, can't do it.

Unfortunately.

Can't do it.

See, that's the breakdown. I know that you say that you and Quan are survivors.

We are survivors.

Do you feel like she's a survivor?

Of course.

Do you ever say that?

I told her she a superhero. That's enough to say.

She a superhero.

I never said she was a survivor 'cause she ain't get shot. I ain't know I had to say that to her.

Okay, so hear me out. The problem is that her being 14 is also compounded by the trauma y'all both feel. You gotta understand that what she went through and what she's experiencing, she didn't understand. She didn't have the words. Just the same way you didn't have the words and she's still trying to figure it out. What I do know for a fact My point is your daughter loves you and she wants the bond back with you.

And no, she don't.

If you can't believe that she wants to bond back with you, then there's not gonna be any work that I can do to help y'all because you gotta believe she wants to bond back. I asked your daughter one thing. If I could help your mother to understand the same grace you deserve, she deserves grace, would you come back out there and model not disrespecting your mom? And she gave me her word. See, this is where I get to see what you see. Either she's gonna do it or she won't.

All I'm saying is this little girl does not get asked for much but to go to school, clean up, be respectful.

I get it.

Don't get piercings, don't dye your hair.

I understand.

And then we gotta go through all this.

But that's everything you just said. Your mother just telling you to clean up and you can look at her and say, "Stand on that." But I need you to hear, the issue you just said is a fort— See what you just did again? This is why I told you.

Oh, y'all never gonna forget that.

Well see, if you can't forget that, then y'all never gonna have a healthy relationship. I know.

You know, it's only a couple people that said some shit about this wheelchair that'll never get the same me again.

Are y'all crazy? Hold on, you just said the issue right there. There's a couple people who have said things about me in this wheelchair would never get the same me again. And unfortunately, one of those people is your daughter.

Mm-hmm.

So that is something that you have to heal before I can heal the relationship with you and your daughter.

And I don't know how to do it, so I don't know.

If I get your daughter to apologize, can you receive it?

I guess.

You guess? All right, so I talked to your mother and we talked about what we talked about about, I shared her with what I said with you. And I understand her feelings as well. I understand how she's feeling. But there's a comment that you made to your mother that still sticks with your mom. And I know when we feel hurt, we say things 'cause we on jab. Do you remember what you said to your mother?

Mm-hmm.

What was it?

You can't walk, something like that. I said it 'cause she was coming at me crazy.

Hold on.

Sorry.

I understand, I understand. I heard you and I heard her. She came at you crazy, so you said something that you felt was gonna hurt her back. I know. Can you apologize to your mother for that comment and really mean it?

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I would never accept it because you fucking said that shit to me 'cause all I do is tell you to clean the shit up. Are you crazy? Well, first of all, you— That's all I tell you to do is clean up and go to school and you had the audacity to say some dumbass shit like that to me?

Okay.

Oh, fuck.

So you came to me to help you to fix this, to heal the heartache that y'all got? And I saw the path to it. And I think we all understand the path to y'all healing it. But that path for y'all healing this relationship is going to start with you. And I'm gonna tell you that right now. If you want your relationship back with your daughter, it's gonna start with you. I'm gonna tell you this. As I told you before, I know there's a very smart, responsible young woman inside of you. I know it, I've seen it, I understand it. Even you taking the opportunity to model that behavior and try to like apologize and do it when I know you felt uncomfortable, I understand. I see who you are. And I think that there's still even more room to grow. I know you don't need to steal. I know that you want a relationship with your mother. I know you do. You gonna have to do some work too. And you're young right now, but you can start to learn that you can actually make different choices. But also you have to.

Yeah, I know. Yeah.

And you're not ready to. It's you gotta forgive these moments.

Why would I say I forgive her when I think she gonna do it again? How about I know she gonna do it again?

Well, that's the cycle there. Until you can forgive and believe that forgiveness, you're never gonna see your daughter the way that you're supposed to see your daughter. And that's the truth. Sad part is this little girl actually just wants her mother back. See, all this playfulness, the looking at her, it's like she's looking to be a kid with her mom and her mom Mom wants her to be an adult. Mom should have said sorry, but Mom needed to heal first. She doesn't feel like anybody respects her anymore because Mom's behavior was built on her strength. That was what her personality was built on. I'm strong, and yeah, I survived this, but now I feel like nobody respects me. And the person I need to respect me the most is my daughter, and she doesn't respect me. But the daughter's just like, I don't even know if I respect you. I don't know what's going on in the world. So that's sad. All right, we gonna figure it out together. All right, thanks for y'all for being around for that.

I got a reputation and know what's up. I smoke, drink, fight. You wanna talk shit, you gonna get hit. I just feel like I'm a fucking adult. My mom, she got the audacity to start talking. She need to mind her business and sit down, for real. She thinks she could run my life and be in my business and tell me what to do and try to stop me from doing shit. Trying to stop me from talking to who I wanna talk to, trying to stop me from drinking and smoking, she's wrong. Everybody pissing me off. Everybody just need to back up. Even your cameraman pissing me off, Karamo.

Everyone, let's meet Heaven's mother, Latrice. Latrice, welcome to the show. So that's, I hadn't seen that before. Is this how Heaven is always acting?

Yes, that's how she behaves. Yes, she does the most. If it's not her way, she's going off, wanting to fight, smoking, drinking, attitude, just doing just too much.

So when did Heaven start acting like this?

About 11 or 12.

And how do you find out about these fights?

Well, the kids around the neighborhood, between them and my son, they come showing me videos of her fighting, you know, You sent my producers a video that you had of her fighting in the school.

Can we show that right now?

Oh!

I can only imagine what you feel like as her mother seeing that. Are you scared for your daughter's safety?

I am.

Yeah.

Like, you know, like I'm questioning my parenting. Like I can't keep going back and forth with you because of your attitude. It's like either you gonna listen and you gonna do right or they got a place for you.

Yeah.

Juvenile.

Yeah. Was she kicked outta school?

Yes, she was.

Why do you think she acts out like this?

Attention.

Attention.

Attention from her friends.

I think it's time that we meet Heaven and get her point of view on all this. So everyone, please welcome Heaven to the show.

Hey.

Hi, Heaven. How are you doing?

Nice to meet you.

Let me give you a hug.

Hi.

Nice to meet you. Take a seat for me. You look very nice.

Thank you.

How old are you?

I'm 13.

13 years old. Okay. So I gotta ask you point blank, why you fighting?

Because niggas wanna talk shit, you know, they wanna talk shit about me and they wanna talk about my friends or they wanna talk about my family and that's very offensive and I feel some type of way and I'm gonna say something or I'm gonna do something. Mm-hmm.

How many fights have you been in?

Over 15.

Over 15? Why you smiling with that?

I feel like I'm grown. Like I get, I can act how I wanna act. You not grown. I need you to stop saying that. I'm grown. You not grown. You would stop saying that. I am grown. I just know. What are you talking about?

I wanna know from you, how does it feel that knowing that when you fight, you're hurting someone?

I don't care. So what?

Have you ever thought about maybe if you got into a fight with the wrong person, they could have a weapon and end your life?

No. When I did care, nobody wanted to care. So therefore now I don't care.

Got it. Why do you think no one cared when you cared?

Because I just feel like I was very vulnerable, so it was easy to like step over me or, you know, walk, like walk all over me, you know?

But I can understand the friends outside.

Right.

If you feel that's your, if that's what you think is like, okay, y'all treating me bad, but your mother and your family is here for you. They love you. So why are you disrespectful at home?

'Cause I just feel like I can take it out on anybody. No, you can't. That's not okay. And you know that. That's not how I raised you. You know right from wrong. You a kid at the end of the day. That's what it is, that's what everybody's sitting there looking at, they're trying to figure out what is you doing being 13 years old wanting to do what you wanna do when you cannot do that. I told you. I tell you time and time again, do I not? Why do you wanna put yourself in that situation when you already know what it is because I told you what I've been through when I was your age?

I'm really trying to understand what has been going on in your life? Because it sounds like you were not fighting and not doing stuff and then all of a sudden things switched.

So there is actually something.

Okay.

I get like looks from other races and stuff.

Okay.

Like differently.

Like what do you mean?

And girls like will make fun of me and stuff and they will call me the shit and say like I looked ugly and like, and I did not feel comfortable. Uncomfortable in my own skin.

So you were getting called the N-word and being told you were ugly.

Right. Prior to that, in 3rd grade, I got bullied my whole school year and them girls was telling me to die. They was telling me to kill myself and I ain't even know stuff about that yet. I'm looking up online how to kill myself 'cause I'm ready to go.

Mom, what do you wanna say about all this?

I didn't know that you was going through this and that's the reason why it caused you to start acting out. I'm sorry that you had to experience that, Mama. And I know why you didn't tell me, but I wish that you would've 'cause you should never have to experience I never experienced nothing like that. But now that I know, I got you. It's hard. It is so hard. Waking up in the morning, looking in the mirror, and being disappointed. I feel like I just don't meet up to certain people's expectations, and I wish, I really wish I could. I just refuse to be looked at as different anymore, because people say different is good. I don't think different is good. And I was just— I promise you right now, you can ask everybody that's sitting here looking at you, I promise you, they tell you, you are beautiful. They not clapping 'cause you ugly. That's hard. That is hard. That is hard. That is hard. That's hard.

When I look at you and I saw this, I knew that you weren't fighting for just fighting sakes. You're fighting to protect yourself. Now you're telling me that at some point people were telling you that you were ugly, calling you a derogatory racial term. You're telling you that you're not enough. All of that starts to come together and then all of a sudden you hit 13, puberty hits and you upset and you wanna protect yourself and be grown because you feel like grown people know how to protect themselves. Grown people can do what they want. Grown people don't have to deal with this.

And they could do it on their own. I feel like, like I'm very like stubborn. Like I could do it on my own. Yeah. And like if anybody gets in my way, it is a problem.

Yeah. This is more right now than you're gonna be able to handle on your own.

Yeah.

So I'm gonna give you therapy. Would you be willing to go with your mom? Okay, I'm gonna give you that because I think this is, having this and having someone be able to talk to y'all and give y'all the tools to say, all right, now that we know this, this is what we do, is gonna be the first step. It's time to take those bricks down one by one and remove that wall and remind yourself as a 13-year-old woman, you have somebody here who's gonna model for you for you, the strength, the beauty. You said you don't connect with your mom anymore. And I hear you. I understand what it's like to be young. I understand what it's like to be in school, wanna look good, wanna look fresh. I had kids myself. You know I like to look good. So I'm gonna also send y'all on a little mother-daughter shopping day on me. So you can go shopping. You wanna go shopping?

Sweet.

You wanna go shopping?

Yeah.

I know it's not gonna fix the problem and that's not what we're trying to do there. But it's nice to have something that you can feel good as you're doing that.

Give me a hug, girl. I love it.

I really do love you both. Come here.

Give me some love. Thank you. Thank you, cutie.

Come here, you sweet baby. Y'all gonna be all right. Y'all gonna be all right.