In this episode of KARAMO, host Karamo brings together Musa, a man who was told at age five that the man he thought was his father was not his biological parent, and Leonard, the man who has long been assumed to be Musa’s father. Musa recounts his childhood trauma—being told by his father during a bathroom lesson that he was not his son, the subsequent estrangement from his paternal family, and the lingering uncertainty that persisted into adulthood. He explains how his mother hinted a year and a half ago that another man might be his biological father, prompting a DNA test. The show stages the on‑air DNA reveal, confirming that Leonard is not Musa’s biological father. Leonard shares his side, describing a sporadic, often absent relationship, his lack of memory of the 5‑year‑old incident, and his feelings of sadness mixed with hope for Musa’s future. The conversation explores the emotional fallout for Musa—feelings of betrayal, the desire for closure, and the need to locate the true biological father—while also highlighting the support network of Musa’s mother, aunts, and grandparents. Karamo guides the dialogue toward healing, encouraging Musa to seek answers, consider therapy, and rebuild family connections, and offers resources for viewers dealing with similar paternity or family‑identity issues.
Chapters
So tell me about hearing at 5 years old that you could not be his son.
Well, when I was young, you know, my father, he went to prison when I was young, you know? My mother, she did everything she could or whatever, but with that, it's just like certain things, you know, we go through as people, we don't understand what we put other people through, you know what I'm saying? Like when I was a kid, my father, he was teaching me how to urinate. He kinda like was showing us, you know, like showing me, we stand at the toilet together and he just was like, you know, you're not my son. You know what I'm saying?
Wow.
And it's just like—
That's a crazy time to tell your son while you showing him.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying? And I'm like, yo, what's going on? But I'm not going to like sit up here and say he was a bad person, you know?
But he just told you directly, I'm not your father.
Yeah, my father's like, y'all'll see. My father's like that. He don't really have no filter, you know? And he keep it 100, but it's just, His whole side of the family, you know, they kind of didn't really take to me like that all my life. I felt kind of like secluded. It's been told to me in my face multiple times by a lot of people.
Did you ask your mother about this?
Yeah, I asked my mom's, well, all my life I kind of told my mom the same thing, like, this is not my dad, you know what I mean? But that's what everybody was telling me. She been telling me that's my dad all my life. And up until like a year and a half ago, my mom was like, if it's not Leonard, then it could be this other guy.
Oh, a year and a half ago?
Yeah.
Wow, okay.
Yeah, so.
What were you feeling at that point?
It just opened up new possibilities because my sisters on my family on my father's side, again, they didn't really take to me and it's a lot of toxic negativity. I've been on something different for a little minute and I just feel like it opened up an option for me to show my wife and kids to another side of family, to meet relatives and stuff that I could start something with.
[Speaker:KARAMO] Yeah, have a relationship with, I hear that. So with this DNA test, you'll find out if Leonard or this other man is your father.
[Speaker] Yeah, yeah, if it's not Leonard, then—
[Speaker] It has to be the other man.
[Speaker] Yeah, it got to, you know what I'm saying?
[Speaker] Well, I think it's time to talk to Leonard and hear his side of the story. So everyone, welcome Leonard to the show.
Show.
What's up, Slim?
What's up, man?
Hey, Leonard, thank you for being here.
How you doing?
So how does it feel about all that was just said?
Well, um, there's a lot of things, like you said, I don't remember, but, um, Just to give you a little background with his mom and our relationship, like you said, we were young, we teenagers, 16, 17, 18 years old. You know, I had a mishap where, you know, I was incarcerated. And so when he was born, I wasn't around. Mm-hmm. During that time, his mom decided she was gonna move on. When I was released, I moved on. Sometimes she'd be, at one point she was in one area, then she was in another area, then she was in this area. We did have a strange relationship. So he's not lying when he said it's off and on because even when he was younger, it was off and on. Then I had more, children, and then, you know, they felt a different type of way about him because basically he would be my oldest, and then, you know, but he was still around. Even during, there was a time when he stayed with me for a little while. You know, he made sure that I ate and I was okay and I was doing the things that I needed to do. You know, so it wasn't like, you know, the incident with the 5 years old thing? I honestly don't remember it. If I did, like you said, it could have been a teaching moment.
He was fresh out, you know what I'm saying? Like, there's a different mindset.
It could have been a teaching moment.
You know, I don't look down on that, but it stuck though.
And one thing about Jonathan, like I said, throughout his childhood, adolescence, and adulthood.
That's another name that you don't go by.
Right, okay, got it. So he had a lot of traumatic experiences and different things like that, you know, growing up and developing. But the best thing I could tell you about him is that he never lacked resiliency. So even now today when he said, okay, I'm looking for this, I'm looking for that, and trying to get answers, I know that he would.
Yeah.
You know, and like anyone else, I would hope that I did better than my father 'cause he wasn't around. And I hope that my sons do better than what I did. Because if you didn't like anything I did, let's move on.
Do you feel strongly at the time that you weren't his father?
Well, when you asked me that question, it really wasn't if I was his father or not, 'cause he was my son. You know, our relationship, From the very beginning, from the time when I was, been estranged. So, and it's been that way throughout, you know, our relationship. You know, so.
So if the relationship was always strange, why say it to him? You could've just left it as, you're my kid and I'm estranged versus saying it to him and have treated it differently.
Well, you asked me about something that he said when he was 5 years old. I'm telling you, I don't remember it. Okay, got it. Even though his other siblings or my other kids may have mentioned, okay, that's not your son, but that's not how I felt. As far as I know, he came to see me, I came, I saw him when he was in town, when I wasn't in town, we actually spent time together.
Got it.
You know, we did do some, well, it's been estranged, but we did do some things together.
Has he become close with anyone in your family?
Off and on. His mom is very close with my sisters and stuff like that. So that's been throughout the year. I mean, throughout the years.
I just feel like I never really fit in. Like my mom, 'cause my mom's been knowing him, they've been knowing, they sisters and my aunties know my other aunties from both sides, you know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
But it's just, it was on the me thing. Yeah. Like, you know what I'm saying? Way on the them.
It was you.
You know what I'm saying? Like, and again, I ain't saying he did nothing wrong, like nothing like that, but It's just I felt that like kids really feel this. Like, you know what I'm saying? I'm 38 years old, 39 years old. I've been all type of prisons and stuff like that. Like when people see me and they understand my story, they don't see my pain. Like they don't see the shit that I, the stuff that I really went through.
Yeah, I hear you.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, I get that.
So I don't know, I just wanna put some perspective on those type of things.
Do you stick up for him with those who don't accept him?
Of course I do. And not only that, From the time I known him, he had a great support system with his mom, his aunt, his grandma, his uncles and stuff. So not saying that that excused me not being there all the time, but like I said, I believe that a lot of his resiliency was built up through his support system that he did already have in place.
So do you feel like you stepped up as his father over the past 30 years or you feel like no? You don't feel that way, okay.
No, I'm not gonna say I have.
Got it, okay.
Because being a father includes spending time and it's quality time, like you said. As he was developing, I wasn't really there trying to make that real big difference or influence him in a different way. Okay. But when he did things that needed support, I tried to be there to support him when I can.
So is this DNA test gonna change anything for you?
Of course I would hope that's my son, but if it's not, like I said, 37, 38 years old, I mean, having known another father, and I was kind of surprised when he told me that, you know, his mom told him about a year, year and a half ago about another person. But, you know, where is that person?
Do you know who that person is? Have you got any contact information? Did your mother give you names?
I mean, yeah, I know of the person.
Okay, but you never met him before?
No, no, no, no.
Okay, have you ever seen a photo? Mm-mm. Okay, did you tell your mother that you were here today?
Oh, duh, you know what I'm saying?
So your mom doesn't know right now that you're getting this clarity?
I mean, I ain't gonna care, right? It's like, I'm a grown man. I feel like in this—
Which is true, you're a grown man. You gotta do what you gotta do for you.
Ma, listen, I love you to death, right? But at the end of the day, I feel like I was hiding Behind everybody else's fears or shortcomings and stuff, and I wanna know my own business. Like, is this too late for me to, you know?
Don't worry about that, I hear that, all right?
Is this too late?
Well, Musa, I think it's time that we get to the DNA truth. So here we go. In this envelope is the DNA truth you have waited years for. You have been told from your recollection since 5 years old that this man is not your father. And now, like you just said, you're old enough to get your own answers, for you to get your truth. This is not my truth to open, it's yours, so here you go.
Mm.
Mm.
Okay.
Where you going?
I thought to say something to Pops first, you know what I'm saying? Like you just said, man, you've been around me all my life. I told you before we came up here, I ain't trying to down you or nothing. I just really wanna know what's going on. And it's like, this was a long time, you know what I'm saying? Just to be looming, you know? Just to be looming in the air, you know what I'm saying? And I wanna know what's going on.
And when he asked me how I would feel about that, like you need clarity and I understand that. Even at this point, even if he was at 10 or 15 or 25, I still at this point need clarity. Like you said, you have kids, you have a family of your own now. You know what I'm saying? You want to do better than what you've seen and experienced. So I understand that. So that's why I'm here to support you.
It's yours to open. It's your truth to open whenever you're ready.
Damn.
What's it say?
Marsha, Leonard is not your biological father. You know what I mean? But again, right? After hearing it for so many years.
It doesn't hurt the same.
It don't really sting like that.
Got it. But now it's time to speak to your mother to get that other man's name and start figuring it out.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it sting, I ain't gonna cap. It do, like it do. Because it's like, you know what I mean? And the crazy thing, I thought I wasn't gonna cry on here, but it's like, yo, when you—
I hear you, brother. Here you go. Yeah.
It's like, all my life, man, you could put shit on display that I do, and you could blast me about everything and all of that. It's like, you lied too, bro. You know what I'm saying? Like, you lied too, man. Yeah.
Yeah, I'm sorry, bro.
It's a long fucking time of lying, bro. Yeah. And I ain't even trying to do you like that, my, but yo.
Yeah, it's been years. It's been years.
This took a long time to, bro, the healing that I've been trying to get.
I gotta get outta prison.
Yeah. You know what I'm saying?
When I could have had like, a lot of unresolved shit.
Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. I'm telling you, I see you and I understand what you're going through and I see the growth that you are trying to have and maintain. And you deserve this closure. You deserve it. And you're right, it's been years of lies that you have been fed. And the unfortunate part is that the people who are trying to give you the truth, it then hurt you as a child because it was like, I needed, and what you needed in that moment was your mother. And I'm not trying to bash her. She has her reasons for what she did, but you were the child that needed to be protected. And when those people said, you might not be the, this is not your father, at that point she should have said, "Let's all get together and solve this." You deserve that. Leonard, how are you feeling?
Well, I'm not saying that I'm happy about that, but like you said, you know, it's kinda weird, you know, 'cause I feel sad and wishing that it went the other way, but then like you said, Throughout the years, you know, you get this feeling sometimes, but after all these many years, it's still my son. He can still call me, talk to me, do whatever the case might be. You know, and I'm glad that he has his clarity, that he has the clarity now, because like you said, now he could take this information and he can move on, probably to a better place. 'Cause now he's equipped with what he needs to make it with. And even if he have to get therapy or whatever the case is, he get to sit down with his kids now and get everything together and then formulate how he wants to do things.
How do you feel about hearing that? The fact that he said that he's sad and he didn't want to go this way?
I mean, I never really had no problems with the guy, man. It's just we didn't have a lot of time. And imagine if I would've came on here and was bashing him and he did as much as he did and he ain't have to do nothing. You get me? Like nothing. He didn't have to do.
[Speaker:KARAMO] Yeah. Yeah, I hear you. Well listen, if you speak to your mother and you want more support, we are here for you. We have resources, we can help you out to get those answers because again, this show's about helping you to get any healing and closure. At the end of the day, you deserve that. And you on that journey and we're here to help you, all right? Right, for sure. Yeah, listen, I'm sorry for both of y'all in this moment, but I'm glad now you have your answers and we're on the first step to the journey of you getting what you need. All right? Thank you. Listen, friends, stay with us. We'll be right back with more.
