You're Not The Boss Of Me Anymore! | KARAMO
In this episode of Karamo’s talk‑show style mediation series, host Karamo brings together multiple families experiencing intense relational conflict. The first segment follows Gabby, who confronts her boyfriend Jamil about his mother Jamila’s constant involvement in their relationship, citing examples like asking for advice on laundry detergent, comforters, and even mac‑and‑cheese recipes. Karamo highlights the “whirlpool” effect of the mother’s interference and pushes for boundaries. The next segment introduces Jamil’s mother Jamila, who defends her role and denies being the problem, while Karamo points out the need for the son to set limits. The show then shifts to Brandon, a young man who feels unloved and verbally abused by his mother Quayda, revealing a history of neglect, financial strain, and a desire for affection. After a mediated hug, Karamo extracts concrete commitments from both parties. The episode continues with Kayla and Melody, adult daughters of Norma, who describe a painful foster‑care upbringing, accusations of abuse, identity theft, and long‑standing resentment. Norma appears, calling her daughters “monsters,” leading to a heated exchange about accountability and the need for healing. Finally, Ayala, an adopted young adult, shares her fragmented childhood, searching for biological parents, and the chaotic circumstances of her early life. Throughout, Karamo employs direct questioning, audience interaction, and staged interventions (e.g., phone‑log reviews, on‑stage hugs) to surface grievances, encourage self‑reflection, and negotiate actionable steps toward healthier boundaries and emotional repair.
Chapters
So hold on, girl, who are you sharing your man with?
Oh, his mother.
Oh.
The head honcho.
I was not expecting that. So you don't like sharing your man with his mama?
No.
Got it. So when did you first realize his mother was too involved in y'all relationship?
Honestly, I wanna say in 2020 when we broke up, we broke up for about a year and honestly we really broke up because of her. So I knew she was the issue then. So when I came back with him, like, look, look, look, you see this?
Whose lap is that he sitting on?
His mother's, his mom.
That's his mother.
Oh.
That's his mother, yes.
Okay. How many of y'all think that's cute?
Exactly.
Just the two of y'all right here. Just the two of y'all. Okay. How often does Jamil ask his mother for advice?
Whenever he needs it. If he needs it 10 times today, he's gonna ask her and she's gonna voice her opinion.
Okay.
It honestly, it doesn't matter.
So is the issue about him asking for advice or is the issue about her voicing her opinion?
The issue is not the advice or the opinion, it's why so often? Why do you have to go to her to always have closure? Or why do you need her to confirm something when I'm your girlfriend?
Got it.
Okay. Can you gimme a couple examples of the things he asks his mom about?
Laundry detergent, for instance. So we were in the store one day, and of course, you know, I wanna switch up the—
I love my— Y'all always shock me. I don't be knowing they gonna have graphics up there. I be like, oh, we got laundry already up there. Okay, keep going. Laundry detergent, okay. What else?
Oh, the comforter.
Got the comforter?
Yes, the comforter. We went to buy a comforter one time, and he had to call his mom just to make sure she's heard of the brand or it's soft or this is the right type of comforter that we should use. She don't sleep in our bed. We sleep in our bed.
So you said, "I want this," and he still had to check with his mama?
Yes, sir. It's gonna have to get checked with his mama.
Got it. The mac and cheese recipe.
I had found a TikTok one time.
Uh-huh.
We couldn't even make the mac and cheese 'cause he's so involved on the phone with his mom. He's asking her questions. I done forgot to put the milk in, so now it's an argument with the mac and cheese. But if you weren't on the phone so busy, you could've reminded me to put the milk in. If we were doing this together like we were supposed to.
A little couple's activity that turned into— Exactly. Instead of it being a couple activity, it turned into a threesome activity.
No, a twosome 'cause I left out of it.
Oh, that's what I was saying. Exactly, yeah.
Got it. Yes.
So he goes to his mom about y'all arguments?
Yes.
So his mother is fully aware of the things that are going on in the relationship?
Yes, she know everything.
And which bill to pay first?
Yes, oh, let me tell him that the bill is $500. We gotta pay $500 by this week. Oh, he's gonna go ask her, "Are you sure that we're supposed to pay $500 this week? Do you think that's okay if we pay the $500 this week?" Everything has to get ran by her.
Okay.
And where to go on dates?
He'll ask for her advice, like where should we go, things like that. She'll be upset if she can't come, but it's not for you to always come.
If she can't come on the dates?
Yes.
Okay. How does it affect your relationship?
It puts a little strain on it because when she catches her attitudes, then he'll catch attitude that she's mad, so then me and him will argue. And once I get upset, the whole house is finna be upset. Everybody's finna understand that I'm upset.
Got it. My producer said you called it a whirlpool when she gets involved. Can you explain?
Yes, 'cause with a whirlpool, everything go bad when it starts spinning. When it's whirling and things like that, things get bad. And that's how it is when she comes around. Things just get tossed in the air. It's so, it's just, I don't know.
Got it. And how long have y'all been together?
Since 2018.
So this is a long-term relationship.
Yep.
Okay. Do you want a future with Jamill?
I do.
You want marriage and kids?
I do. I love Jamill and I want kids, but I'm not bringing kids into this situation. How this situation is, how she has a say-so with everything, I'm not bringing kids into that.
If nothing changes, will you walk away from the relationship?
Yes. I was gonna walk away last week. I had my stuff packed last week. Last week?
Yes.
Oh wow.
So you're at your breaking point? Yes.
Got it.
Okay. Well, I think it's time to meet Jamill's mom. So everyone welcome Jamila to the show.
For one, I don't like coming out here making it seem like I'm the bad person.
Okay.
And hi, cousin. Hi.
I'm sorry about that.
How you doing?
But no, I'm not the bad person. That's my son. He's gonna always be my son. Like I told you when y'all first got into the relationship, I'm not going anywhere.
Mm-hmm.
It doesn't matter if that's her son. I'm in a relationship with him, right?
Yeah.
I go with him, right?
Okay.
I lay with him every night, right?
Okay.
We're intimate, right? That's my man. She shouldn't have so much of a say so. Stay in a mom's place. And I stay in my place. If he comes to you and he asks you that, if he asks you something, okay, cool.
I stay in my place.
But if he comes to you with a relationship, she should be the mom and be like, that's your relationship, son.
And I'm the mom.
Go handle it.
Not having a two-step thing. When he calls me, I'm the mom. I don't get in they bedroom relationship. But when he calls me for advice, he's my son. I'm supposed to give him advice. That's what I'm going to do. All the time. I'm his mother.
He only has me. Raise your hand if you think that her giving advice this often is an issue.
No, no, no, absolutely not. Absolutely not. They must not have momma's voice because when my son calls me for advice, just like the mac and cheese, my mac and cheese is better. She barely knows how to cook.
Okay, so we talking about—
So he's gonna ask for his mom's recipe because that's what he's used to.
I don't care about the recipe.
I don't care about the recipe. So for you, why isn't it important to be involved in his decision?
It's not important to be involved in his decision, but at the same time, if he calls and asks me for advice, then I'm gonna give him the advice. I'm not gonna just push my son off and just ignore him and not say anything.
What was your relationship like with Jamell growing up?
It has always been me and Jamell until I got married when he was 9.
It's been me and Jamell.
Okay, but I'm not telling you, when I say this, when I say this, I'm not being funny.
He's not growing up anymore.
He's grown, he's not growing up, he's grown.
Let him be grown.
Yeah, and I understand that.
You raised him to be a man, let him be a man.
And he's definitely a man.
You have to let him grow.
And he's definitely a man.
He definitely a man.
I am a man.
He definitely a man.
He need to make his own mistakes and fix his own mistakes.
Yes, he's definitely a man and he does men things, but at the same time, he still depends on his mom. But I do not get involved in everything. I just, when my son call, my son needs me, I'm going to be there.
If she needs me, I'm gonna always be there. She gonna come talk to me.
I will always be there.
Jamil shared the screenshot with my producer that he wanted me to see. So can I take a look at this? You blocked, you punk-ass blank mama's boy. You a bum-ass mama's boy, 100%.
Okay.
No, you the reason that you're a bitch who never can act like a adult. This you sent to him? And yes.
And this.
I'll be upset.
This is the problem that I have, the disrespect, because I will get a long ass text.
We won't get to the disrespect if she just said, what did I say? What did I say? What that say right there?
She will call my son out of his name. You know, like, you need to stay out of it, you're just too involved, you act like you're— And I do, I do, baby, now I'm married, 17 years, 17 years of marriage, I'm married, happily married.
Why did you tell Jamil not to propose last Christmas?
'Cause they're not ready, you see this right here?
How can you get married?
You see this right here? This is why she can't even respect his mother. If she can't respect his mother, What makes you think that she's gonna respect the relationship? I mean, come on now.
It has nothing to do with respecting you if I'm dating your son. She has nothing to do with it. If I'm dating Jamil, what does that have to do with it?
No, it does have to do with it.
Just like I'm gonna respect you, you need to respect Karamo. Now this is the only part where I have to stop and correct you because respect is mutual. She should give you respect and you should give her respect.
Exactly, but I'm not gonna come off the rip giving, you see how she act? And y'all think I'm gonna give her respect? Y'all think I'm gonna care how she feel? No, I care how he feel. I don't care how she feel.
You know, I think it's time to meet the person in the middle of all this.
Let's teach Jamil.
Yes. So we can hear his side of the story.
Jamil, come on out. Hey Jamil, thanks for being here. Hi.
How you doing?
How often do you ask your mother for advice?
Every day.
Every day. Why every day?
Well, like it can be anything. It can just be a situation I might need her assistance on. I feel like she understand me more.
Okay.
You shared a snapshot of your recent call log for us to get a better idea.
Exactly.
Where do y'all see my name?
Where y'all see my name? And my name Gabby.
Where y'all see my name? What's wrong with calling and checking on your mom every day?
I mean, what's wrong with that?
So we actually—
What's wrong with that?
We actually wanted, I wanna say this, hold on. We actually wanted to unlock your phone and you were getting ready to hand it over and then Gabby, you stepped in and you said you wouldn't let him.
Why?
'Cause we wanted to lock your phone to really understand the nature of this relationship, to see how many texts, what the texts are saying, what is going on. And you decided not to. Why?
I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't care to know what they're saying in their messages, honestly. If he's going to her venting or something like that, that's cool. Say what you want, say what you do, because I know what gets said to my face and I know what gets said to me and in front of me.
Yeah, but it wasn't about you, us telling you what she's saying about you. It was about your gripe is their relationship is too close. So we wanted to see how close the relationship is. And so that's what we're seeing. That's why we've said, can we at least get the call logs, a snapshot? Because the same way you, we saw this and it gave them a clear picture of how often they talk, we wanted to see what was going on. But you decided that he could not.
No, because I don't know what's said in those messages. And I'm gonna be honest, no, I don't know what's said in those messages about me and I don't want that out there.
No.
Got it.
So why do you check with your mom before checking why you wanna be with Gabby?
Like I said, I just feel like she might understand me more, like, you know what I'm saying? I know like that's my girlfriend, but you know what I'm saying?
Do you feel like you need to take care of your mom?
Yeah, to be honest, like seeing her struggles like that, so I was like, you know, I'm gonna help my mom step in and be the man, like help out.
And how much money do you give your mom each month?
I say about $500, $600.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
And I would do vice versa.
And what happened on Christmas and Valentine's Day?
Maybe I did kind of like do a little bit more for her.
Maybe you kind of did or you did?
I did.
He did.
He felt like he did.
Like I did.
I don't think so.
How did you think that was gonna make her feel?
I don't know, 'cause like I feel like you get stuff yearly, you know what I'm saying? Like if I got it, like, you know what I'm saying? If I got the extra money, you know what I'm saying? So like she'll get it, you know what I'm saying? No matter what, you know what I'm saying? Any day, it don't really have to be a holiday.
My whole point of the thing, all that don't matter. My whole point of the thing, it's not about the gifts, It's not about that she got more, it's not this. I want the attention. I want you to act like you're my boyfriend. I don't care what you give her. I don't care when you do that. Act like a boyfriend all year and I don't care about Christmas. I don't care about Valentine's Day. Oh yes you do. 'Cause I don't ask for stuff. What do I ask for? I want you to act right. That'll be the best thing for me. That'll be the best gift in the world.
Act right.
Okay.
Yep.
How often do you stay at your mom's house instead of just going home after an argument?
I can stay there all day, all week.
So space is fixing it. Okay.
Space is fixing it.
I ain't gonna say I respect it.
Well, I tell him too.
Jamel, what do you want to happen?
Well, I'm gonna be real. Like today I really want us to like come together. Like I just want her to understand like that I only get one mom, you know what I'm saying? And it's plenty of women out there. Not saying that I want other women, but it's like I just really want this to get resolved today.
You can't handle future with me and you trying to bring your mom in the future and all that too. We gotta have two separate tables.
We gotta have two separate tables.
But like I said.
So let me just be clear.
Let me be clear about something. You think she wants to be you.
Yep, I don't.
And you think—
She got the same wig on as me and I had my wig on first.
How I wanna be her? I knew that was gonna come up.
I knew that was gonna come up. She caught me in the hallway with the wig on and I had it styled, gelatin, and I was running down the middle like. I think that's what it is too. Like, I kind of feel like we are the same.
So let me back up, okay. You think she wants to be you and now we even heard more about the wig.
Mm-hmm.
And you think that she—
She wanna be me. No, no, I don't.
You think that he's a mama's boy.
Yeah.
Okay. So can I tell you something?
Mm-hmm.
You're both telling the truth. You do wanna be her.
Who?
You.
Oh, no, no, no.
And you have created a mama's boy.
Yeah.
You know that.
Yeah.
Okay, at least you know that. You want me to go to you and tell you how you wanna be her?
How?
And I don't mean her in essence, that you wanna be her as the woman.
Yeah.
But you do wanna be in control.
Yeah.
And the fact of the matter is you don't like that she's in control and she's having these things. And I'm only going off of what you said outta your mouth here on this stage. And so the real issue, I'm gonna be real with you, I only pointed that out to let you know that your behavior with him is wildly inappropriate. The boundaries are way skewed.
Mm-hmm.
And as well, as well, because of that, you wanna be in control. So I'm just telling y'all that so you can identify and what the issues are with you all. But the real issues are not you two. The real issue is you, young man. Mm-hmm.
Right.
Why'd you feel like, well, not to cut you off, you about to talk.
Oh, I'm gonna tell you, but you can ask me why I feel like this.
Yeah, oh, but that's what I'm about to ask you. Why you feel like I'm the problem?
Well, because your mother unfortunately put you in a situation that a lot of young men who are raised by single mothers fall into. Where I feel like I have to be your protector, I have to be your friend, I have to be your boyfriend, I have to be your son. And the person that has to break that is you as a man. You have to be confident enough to put boundaries on it. Your girl is right.
Yeah.
Your girl is right. That is highly inappropriate. I love my mama, I'm a mama's boy, but I have never called my mama that many times in a day.
Never.
Also, if I'm in an argument with the person I'm in a relationship with, I don't involve my mother in every situation. Because this is something that I'm supposed to be dealing with as a man with my partner so that we are growing together. She right. You keep involving her, I'd be pissed off too.
So can you gimme like, look, like at least 2 steps that I can do, like as going home, that make it a little bit better? Like at least one day, one day by day.
You have just spoken my language. Of course I can, brother. That's what we do here. Okay, the first thing I'm gonna tell you is you need to set a boundary of how many times you call your mother in a day. You crying, what's going on?
What's happening?
I guess like you said, I hold on to him because It's somebody I know that's gonna love. I didn't have a mom, I didn't have a dad.
Yeah.
You know, so when I had him, I was 20 years old. I needed him at the time.
Yeah.
I still do need him.
Yeah.
But I understand that I have to let him go.
I do.
I know, I know. I appreciate that vulnerability.
Yeah.
And lemme tell you something, you gotta get over that arrogance of that because one day you gonna be a mother and this gonna hit you. I'm a parent, I understand what she's going through and what she feels. It's gonna hit you one day. It's gonna hit you one day. I can tell you, and you can make the face if you want. I'm a professional, I know what I'm doing.
I'm in a relationship, I know what I'm doing. I don't try to tell him what to do. I don't never tell Jermaine what to do. If he wanna do something, I'm agreeing with it. I'm on his back. I'm like, okay, cool, if you wanna do this, I'm pushing for you, this and that and the third. But I'm not finna keep doing it when I'm not getting nothing in return.
So then if you're not happy, then why, if you're not happy, why are you staying in this?
Right.
Right.
I don't have to stay in it. I'mma say I don't have to stay in it.
So then why are you?
I don't have to stay in it.
So why are you?
I don't have to.
Okay.
So Jamil, you need to walk off this stage and you need to start, the thing for you is you need to man up and start to set some real boundaries, okay?
Yeah.
Secondly, if you have any advice, go ask Google, don't ask your mama.
And I mean that.
All right. And I mean that, okay?
Yeah, 'cause I gotta be a man for myself, you know?
You gotta be a man for yourself.
[APPLAUSE] Me and my mom have a harsh relationship. Like, I love my mom, but at the same time, we have bad times. Like, me and my mom, we argue a lot. We have a lot of disagreements. It's like, I guess, like, a lot of love is not there.
So you feel like your mother doesn't care about you?
Yeah, I feel like she doesn't care about me. I feel like it's not enough love there with me and her. Like, I know, like, I probably can't say that I don't like her, but I don't. I don't.
Yeah, yeah.
I don't. Like, she gets on my nerves. Yeah, you love her? And like, she takes— Yeah, I love my mom. I have a lot of love for my mom. I do. And I want her to understand that. She probably— I know I do a lot of stuff that hurts her, but I love her. A lot.
Yeah. What are types of things that she says to you?
Like she says that I'm not gonna be nothing, I'm gonna be like my dad, or I'm gonna be a bum or something like that. Or she'll be like, if you keep on being out in these streets and hanging out with these people, you're gonna die.
Mm.
She tries to manipulate my brother and tells him things like, like he'll do something And then she'll be like, "You probably got that from your little brother," or, "You probably got that from watching him and doing what he do. You don't wanna be like him." That makes me feel like you don't want my little brother to like me or something like that. You know what I'm saying?
Has she ever told you that she doesn't like you?
Yeah, she was like, "I hate you." She said, "I wish I never had you." When did she say that? She said that probably about like, probably last year. It was actually, a day before my granddad's funeral. And we got into it real bad. I ran away from home and I just ran away. I cried. I sat at the park and cried.
Yeah.
That's like the last time that I really just cried for real.
Yeah.
Like it really puts me down like in a deep spot. I really just ball out. It be times, it's times that like I go through it. Like I just bawl out and cry. I'd be on a bus or something going to school and I'd think about it and I'd cry.
Yeah.
Yeah, so.
So what do you need from your mom today?
For more love, more understandingness, and just for us to get along.
Yeah.
I don't wanna argue every day. I just want all love. That's it. As long as I know that she actually loves me and care for me, then I'll be good.
Got it. Well listen, Brandon says he's not the reason why his relationship with his mother, Quayda, is so toxic. He says he's not the one who needs a reality check, if that is his mother. Let's hear what she has to say. Everyone please welcome Brandon's mom, Quayda, to the show.
[APPLAUSE] Brandon, you make me hate you. I don't hate you, you make me hate you because of the things, how you talk to me.
You see what I'm saying?
And stop lying. And telling these people, making me look like a bad— I do everything for you. All this talking, I can't talk to you. You talk too much. You talk too much. Keep your mouth closed. Keep your mouth closed. How can you listen and you talking? Look out. That's what I'm saying. How you doing?
Nice to meet you.
I'm Quayda. I'm Quayda.
Hi. Nice to meet you. Quayda, so why are you angry? At your son?
Because he just do stuff. All he does is talk, talk, talk. I do everything I can for this child right here. I love this child, but it makes me, the things that he do makes me hate him. It makes me feel like I hate him. I don't hate anybody, but it makes me feel like I hate him because of things that he do. He know that. He always snurn up his nose like he's better than everybody else. You ain't better than, I take care of you. Then he sit up here talking about you grown. That's what I'm saying.
I don't act like I'm better than everybody else. I know I'm not like everybody else.
Then you talking about I'm famous. Hell, you ain't making no money from it.
You ain't famous.
Okay, whatever, but like I said.
You're not.
Like I said, that's what I'm saying. That little kind of stuff like that. You talking about you're not. Okay, who said I was? I ain't say I was famous. You the one running out here calling yourself 5 Locks. What does that mean? The only 5 blocks, 5 blocks you going is walking them 5 blocks to school. You don't have no gun, you don't have none of that. Like that's what I'm— I never said I had a gun. Yeah, but it don't matter. So why you call yourself 5 blocks?
How long has this fight been going on between you two?
Listen, this child been acting like this and rude to me his whole entire life. This been going on, but it seemed like since I say last year, you can see I got a little piece of tail 'cause you know they say you're smelling yourself. So that's when all this disrespect, when he was about 15. So all my friends was like, "Well, maybe he done had a piece of tail or something." 'Cause I said, 'cause he always been, he always had an attitude and all this stuff like that. But like this disrespect, like I can't talk to him. Every time I try to talk to him, he talk over me. Then like when I talk, when I try to talk to him, he close the door.
When I try to talk to her, she don't wanna listen.
You don't either, you don't either, mama.
I try to listen to my mom, all she do is yell. I don't wanna listen to nobody yell. You don't either.
Well, if somebody not listen to me and they saying blah, blah, blah and rolling their eyes and slurring it up, like you better than everybody else, of course I'm gonna yell. If I don't feel like he listening, if I don't feel like he listening, then of course I'm gonna yell, duh. And see why he talking about, I don't want my other son to be out 'cause he's smart, he's in band, he do stuff. This boy don't have no interest in nothing. He don't have no—
I'm not gonna make it like I'm just super smart, but I'm smart. I'm trying to work on myself.
Brandon, what are you interested in doing?
I'm trying to be a musical engineer. I wanna go to college so I can be, yeah.
You wanna do music?
You wanna do a musical engineer?
Yeah, 'cause I love music.
Mm-hmm.
What's your relationship with your father like right now?
My father, we don't even have a relationship. Me and my dad don't have a relationship. We don't.
When was the last time your father told you he love you?
I don't even know.
You don't know? I don't know. Okay. When was the last time your father gave you a hug?
I haven't had a hug from my father probably like, On Christmas.
Okay. Do you hug him often?
No.
Nope. We don't even, we don't hug. We don't do nothing. I don't like my ex.
We don't even meet up to hug him.
We don't. I don't like her like that. That's why I don't like her. I don't hug her. I don't even tell her I love her like that.
I like him, but damn, I mean, I wanna get to the point where I wanna hug him and I wanna, you know, pat him on his back and stuff. And I do say good things because I wanna, I say things like, Oh, you ain't gonna be shit, or you ain't gonna, you gonna be like your daddy because you're this, really ain't shit.
It's not gonna make it.
So it don't matter, but that's what you remind me of. That's not gonna make it. All that talking, all that shutting the door in my face, that's the same stuff his daddy did. Like I told him, you act just like your daddy.
Can you take a moment real quick? I just wanna talk to your mom. You know, even though you are a young man, you about to be 18, I wanna talk to mom alone just so that we can talk and then we'll ask you to come back.
Okay.
All right, perfect.
Is that cool?
Thanks. How long have you been speaking negative, like about him?
Uh, long time. It's been a long time.
I just wanna pause right there for a minute because I know you're overwhelmed. You're a single mother, you're dealing with 2 kids, you're probably working your ass off, you trying to do everything you can.
Yeah, I have, I'm a stay-at-home mom. I have my little own business. For them so I can keep money. Working your ass off.
Yeah, exactly.
So yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's hard to run a business, you know what I mean? But so I wanna acknowledge that because I wanna make sure it's not to say like you're not showing up, you're not doing things.
No.
But I asked you how long you speak negative about him and you couldn't even remember. I don't know. The things that got me was when I asked him, If y'all hug and you said you can't even hug him. When I asked him when was the last time he got a hug from his dad, he said, "I don't know." And he couldn't remember the last time he heard his dad say, "I love you." I said my love him.
You know, I do do that, but I don't hug him 'cause I don't.
But let's—
I kiss like a—
But I want you to think about this 'cause you say, "I love him." You say, "I love him." I have love for him. Yeah, but you also say all these negative things.
Yeah, 'cause I want him to do better. I just want him to do better. I say that because he makes me say that. It's like, like I said, he thinks he's better than everybody. He got this snared up look, even like, We went to the fair. He was just acting like he just, ugh, just didn't wanna be around us. Like he was all, "Get away from me." Like, ugh.
Can I ask you something? And this is not about your son. If I have been with you for 30 days straight, I said, "You ain't shit." On day 31, do you wanna walk down the fair with me?
Not really.
I see a correlation between the relationship you have with his father and the hate you have with his father, because you've said it a couple of times about how much he is like his father, and he knows you don't like his father. Your son is not your ex.
No, I know that.
You know it, but I don't think you know it. So again, lemme go back. You said, "I've been talking, telling him, saying these negative things to him forever. I've been telling him he's like his daddy since he was a little kid." Then you say, "But I don't understand why he still acts out and why." He still doesn't wanna be around me and why he does these things.
Mm-hmm.
You're a mother that's trying, but as well, you set a lot of things in motion that you're dealing with right now. This little boy has self-esteem issues. He feels like nobody wants him in this world.
Mm-hmm.
And we forget that when kids do things like putting guns out there, do stuff like that, he's hurt. And I say this all the time, when people see these— Karamo. These horrible things, what you're really seeing is pain. And especially when it's kids, it ain't drama, it ain't like he'd wanna be a gangster, it's pain.
Well, the thing is, if that's the case, then why not try to sit down? Even if you sit down and talk to me and it always—
But I'm gonna ask you, how can he talk to you? How can he talk to you if he knows you think he's like his dad and he knows you don't like his dad and you've said things to him since he was little, that he ain't worth nothing.
Well, I'm not a bad, I love my son. I want him to be—
Again, hold on, hold on.
You know, I started this for a specific reason on the way of saying I'm not gonna ever paint you as a horrible mother.
Right, right.
And I'm making that clear again for people that are here. Because the thing is, is that I don't know what you've been through. So I'm not gonna sit here and blame you because you were hurting and you were in pain and you just didn't get a chance to heal from it. But you not healing from the pain you experienced doesn't give you a license to then continue to hurt him.
And he's—
I'm not hurting him.
I don't feel like I'm hurting him.
I know.
I know you don't feel like you're hurting him, but you are. And don't get me wrong, when he come back out here, I'm gonna tell him he gotta stop disrespecting you. If you could trust me, I promise you this shift would help your relationship. I promise you. I'm not saying nothing to you just but other than to help you. To help your family.
Uh-huh.
And the first step is, is your son needs a hug. Because even when, even when you don't like someone, when you don't like your child, and I'm a parent, there's been many a times my children have got on my damn nerves. But even in those moments, I have to realize that I have to love them louder than whatever they're saying to me that's negative. I have to love them louder than whatever they're doing that's negative. I always have to love my child louder than whatever it is that I'm feeling. Can we bring Brandon back out? This is just a step. This is just a step.
Okay.
He needs to hold his mom. He needs to feel you. So he's coming out.
Okay.
It's for you. You take the first step, Mom. Love him louder.
Okay.
Give me a hug.
I love you, Brandon.
I love you too.
I just want you to do better and be better.
You gonna do better?
Mm-hmm. Okay.
How'd that feel?
That felt great.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
It felt good to hug him 'cause I haven't hugged my baby in a long time.
You're tearing up.
Yeah.
What's going on in your head right now?
So I wanna, That felt like love.
Yeah.
That felt good.
Yeah.
Like, I ain't had a hug like that in a long time.
Yeah, I know.
So that made me feel good. That took away a lot of problems, a lot of stuff that I was going through.
The thing is, is that part of it is you got a lot of anger in you because your entire life you felt like nobody wants me and nobody sees me. And it's been since you were smaller, before you could even remember. And so you started to develop this characteristic of like, I'm just angry and you don't know why.
Yeah.
You angry.
Been angry for a long time.
Yeah.
And I ain't know how to cope with it.
Yeah.
I just was going through a lot of stuff. Lost my granddad, my auntie, my cousin.
I know.
I ain't never been able to like grieve for real.
Yeah. Get closer to your mama. Get close to your mother.
I ain't been able to like grieve how I wanted to. I ain't been able to let it out. So I just been going through it.
So what I wanna ask for you is can you commit right now to doing two things? The first thing is when you're feeling angry and when you feeling like, oh, I'm upset and you about to go off, can you just do one thing for me and say, hey mom, I need to figure out how to be vulnerable right now. Lemme tell you, I'm a successful man with a happy family and a happy relationship. A man is somebody who can be vulnerable. That's what a man is. A man is somebody who loves others. A man is somebody who loves himself.
Yeah.
The hustling, the money, all those things that we think make a man, that don't make a man. Because what, at the end of the day, if they took all of this away from me, I'm still a man because I know I give love. I know that I love myself. I know that I'm vulnerable. I can talk about my emotions. That's what a man is. [APPLAUSE] So when you feel the anger, when you feel the anger, what are you gonna say?
I need to know how to be vulnerable.
Good job.
Right.
Second thing I need you to do, can you commit to respecting your mother more?
Yes, sir.
Tell her.
I commit to respecting you more.
But now as well, can you commit to your son to not say something negative about him? When you feel the urge to be like, "Oh, you like your daddy," don't say it.
I can commit.
Can you commit to saying to him, not telling him negative things about himself?
I can commit to not saying negative things about yourself.
Can you hug your baby every day no matter if you happy or sad or if he makes you mad or if you feel confused? It's your job to love him louder than whatever he's doing.
Yes.
Can you make that commitment to him?
I will.
Give him one more hug now.
Ah!
[APPLAUSE] If y'all can use them tools, y'all gonna be all right.
Thank you so much. Thank you so much.
Listen, you do those things, I promise you I'm gonna check in with you in 6 months. If you do these things and I get a good report, I'm gonna help you figure out how to get into music producing.
All right. All right.
Norma has a black eye and a bruising around her face, and Norma says her daughters did this to her. Norma lost custody of her daughters when they were little, and now she says they're all grown up and have come back into her life to destroy it. Norma refers to her daughters as monsters, and we're going to hear more from Norma later, but first I wanna speak to her daughters. Please welcome Kayla and Melody to the show. [APPLAUSE] Hi, how are you both doing?
Hello.
Tell me your name.
I'm Kayla.
You're Kayla? Let me give you a hug. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. You look super cute.
Thank you.
Melody. Nice to meet you, Melody. You look beautiful as well. So we saw the photo, but we'll get into that later. Your mother refers to you both as monsters.
Yeah, she does.
How do you feel about that?
Honestly, let's just talk about it. I ain't touch nobody.
Uh-huh.
But what can I do? My mother, She feels like we just a lost case. We grew up in foster care, so it's like, what are we supposed to do?
Kayla, how old are you now?
I'm 24.
24, okay. And Melody?
22.
22 years old, okay. So you both grew up in foster care?
Yeah. Yeah.
Describe your relationship with your mom.
Me personally, I don't really have a real relationship with my mother. I don't really talk to her unless it's about my children. I just feel like I'm done with her. I grew up in the system, I aged out, I learned what it is to be in the streets.
Yeah.
And I learned what it is to feel like you don't have no mother or for somebody to tell you like, "I tried but I lost you, there's nothing I could do." So as a child, I felt like I was always abandoned.
So it's gotten physical obviously.
Yeah.
What happened?
Well, me personally, I put my hands on my mother one time. But this was like—
Is that what this was?
No, that don't have nothing to do with me. She antagonized my little sister. Unfortunately, my sister couldn't be here today. But they got into a fist fight. I was on the phone listening. My mom fell and I heard she like hit the dresser or something. She went around town telling everybody that they beat the shit outta her. And ain't nobody beat your ass. You just sat up there and lied for everybody to feel sorry for you. Like you got these evil-ass kids. I understand you going through it, I understand we not that, you know, easy to deal with, but you never gave us a chance to sit down with us and tell us, "Are you okay? Is there something wrong with you?" As a mother to you. As a mother. But you sat up there and bashed us, threw us to the street.
Melody, how do you feel about your mom?
As a grown woman, anybody who have a child, they should take, how you say, some accountability when they did wrong. Like, I'm 22. I work 14 hours. I don't know how I'm a monster. I take care after elderly people. I work in a hospital. I have a busy lifestyle.
Yeah.
So I can't just sit here and take on my mom's life. You had 7 kids, we took 7 sins for each child. So I just felt like that's not fair. We all go through it.
That's very interesting words to say. You had 7 kids and we took 7 sins.
Yes, we did. 'Cause it's just like we all been through a hard thing. But one thing I can't understand about my mom lifestyle is Why can you never take accountability? Like, why you could never see you're wrong as a grown woman?
My producers told me that she, you told them that she stole your identity?
Not like, she used my information for stuff. Like me and my— That's stealing your identity. Yeah, me and my sister's stuff. The bill is $45,000. The bill is in my name. No matter how you wanna put it, you can have like welfare or whatever, or however it goes, whoever name is on the bill, they're responsible. I'm 22, I'm not paying $45,000 debt that I didn't only do, you understand?
Life was tough growing up for you?
Yeah, it was. Like my mom knows, like I've been raped for 10 years, like, and she don't understand, like, you know?
You said you were raped?
Yeah, for 10 years.
I'm sorry.
In foster care. It's okay. I'm so sorry. It's just like in the sense—
It's not okay and I'm sorry.
No, it's not. But it's just like, it just showed me how the world can be and it just showed me that you have to defend yourself. Like you have to be there for yourself.
When you told your mom about your experience in foster care and what happened, what was her response?
She was hurt. She was hurt. But it's just like, you can't do nothing. You put me in that situation.
She tries to like make them believe like, okay, I love you. And then be like, get the fuck out and slam the door.
Literally. Literally.
Yeah. You told my producers that you had to keep your transition from your mom.
Yeah. Due to the fact, 'cause my mom, she say things hurtful. You can't hurt me about my transition. I'm pretty. What you gonna say? I have what between my legs?
Okay.
It's pretty.
It's very much pretty.
You feel me?
So I just feel like anybody who's a bigot in that area of society when people don't understand different, you're a bigot. No matter how you wanna put it, you're a bigot. Like you're close-minded. You don't care about it.
Understand, what do you two want from your mother today? 'Cause it sounds like accountability.
There's no accountability. She don't see where she goes wrong. Yeah, she do her, she tries her best. You still do wrong, you understand? Just because you're trying to cover up what you did, that doesn't mean you're still like forgiven for what happened. Like, you know what I'm saying?
I want y'all to think about that a little bit more as I invite your mother out right now. I've heard the girls' side of the story and to be honest with you, I've been hearing Norma backstage this entire time. So now it's time to hear more directly what she has to say. So Norma, come on out.
Oh no.
Hey, Mama, nice to meet you. Come, let's switch seats.
We gonna switch seats.
Okay. Okay. So what do you have to say about what you heard?
That these kids are monsters.
Why do you call 'em monsters?
Because they're very disrespectful and they think that I'm a punching bag. I'm their target. So when they upset, they come for me.
Well, I wanna know what you were saying backstage 'cause I could hear you backstage.
What were you saying? That they feel like they can do whatever they want with me and it's okay. I've tried my best with them. I've told them multiple times how the situation was, but they think they grown and they believe that I abandoned them. I never abandoned them.
If we gonna tell a story, tell it right. But don't sit up here.
No, no, no, you tell it right. No, don't sit up here. No, no, no, I'm not gonna let you. No, no, let me tell you something. I'm not come here for all this extra here.
Don't sit up and talk bad.
I'm not here for that, baby girl.
I'm gonna punch you in your face. 'Cause it wasn't me.
Who said it was you?
So who was it?
It was your sister.
No, she didn't, Ma.
Oh, she didn't push you in my face?
Stop lying.
I wanna know from you, how do you think you got to this point?
They feel like I'm the one of, I'm the bad guy of the picture. I've tried with them throughout all my life. You only look for me when you need me.
Nobody needs you, Ma.
Oh, you don't need me?
But I raised your kids.
No, you didn't. I don't know who raised my kids.
Let's talk about it. This is what this is about.
This is the kids that you think that I'm gonna be a bad dad. Because you wanna talk to people like me. No, I'm talking to you.
You don't have kids.
You act like one. I'm not asking you to lie. I didn't come here to make sure you're nobody. And I said it, I'm not perfect, but I've never let these kids behind.
So you're saying your kids were in foster care and you were there?
Yes.
She was never there.
How is that possible?
While they was in foster care, they was coming and going back and forth.
We had visitation.
Basically, all right, when we did get taken away, my mom, she did do, you know, she did do, Certain things she did do it. I will never take that from my mother. But once again, you have to grow up. People can't give you back kids or give you what you want when you not going and putting no effort in.
That's so hard.
No effort, no effort. They would've gave you back your children if you was clean, you had a house, if you had a job, if you had everything as a stable woman.
Were you on, I get it, you're right, you're very much right. Were you on drugs during that time?
Back then, yeah.
Okay then.
Yeah, but I did everything I could possibly do. I did it. But the problem is that this drags for a whole lot of fraud with the system.
Okay, so you told my producer that you feel like you were unfairly blamed.
They blame me for everything.
Uh-huh, and you don't feel like that's fair?
I don't, and I don't owe them nothing because the minute you have all that energy to put your hands on me and hurt me like I'm a piece of crap, well guess what?
I don't feel nothing for you.
I never beat you. And it's okay to say everything.
I love them, but I can't be around them.
Norma, why did you call ACS on—
Tell her why did that happen. Can you ask her why did you—
I did, she said she doesn't understand.
She didn't understand why? Will you tell this child the reason why I called ACS on this child?
We're not gonna talk about that.
Because she left her kids alone in the house and was with a guy in the field while I was in Queens. I ran all the way from Queens to Red Hook because her daughter was outside by herself 'cause they were alone in the house.
Period. But we not gonna go into all of that 'cause you a fucking liar. Why both your daughters saying this?
'Cause we don't always tell the truth, Karamo. First of all, we not doing that. We're not doing that straight like that. We're not doing that.
Shut up 'cause you not telling the truth.
We're not doing that straight like that because you're a fucking liar, that's why.
And you still to this day can't tell the truth though.
Kayla, you brought a text exchange. We brought a text exchange between you and your mother. I wanna see this text exchange.
This point, you can't even spell. Listen, this is my point.
Hold up, wait, let me show you.
This is my point, you dirty ass little bitch. This is why I got recorded so people could see what type of time are you on, grateful. But blah, blah.
Girl, bye. Stop playing with me.
This is what she does. Every time she don't get her way. Get the fuck outta here.
This is not what it is.
I just wanna know, did you send it?
Yes, but you gotta see why. But you have to see why.
She have to see no why.
If I scroll over on my phone, you will see the things, the things, and why we already have a lot of issues.
She makes her life bad.
You can't do that.
You can't do that.
You can't do that.
So what?
So what?
You had 7 kids and you got all of them took and went to King.
Really?
But really? Really? Do you know the reason why? Yeah.
Really?
I understand, I understand.
I'm not arguing.
I'm trying to see, I'm seeing your children's side. And one of the things about me is I'm always, always gonna be fair. I'm always gonna try to see other people's side. So I know you showed up here today. You had to have showed up for a reason. Why did you come?
Why do I come? Because I want justice and I want these people to believe and know that things that they say is not true.
So you didn't come here to repeat No, I like your hair.
Yes, but apparently that's not what they want. That's not what they want.
But how?
How? Because look at your actions.
What the fuck is you talking about right now?
Because you telling me that you want me to freaking feel, I want to choose guys to really, really be, I'm sorry, Mom, or I be like, I'm sorry, but. For what?
For what?
That's my point, for what?
You need to open your ass to be a real ass woman.
To be a grown-ass woman. Hold on, dude, you feel like your daughters owe you an apology?
Huh?
You feel like your daughters owe you an apology? Of course, because I'm the only one that raised them. She's 60 years old. The fuck I owe her apology for?
What I owe her apology for? Don't play with me.
I wanna know how you feel about your daughters.
Don't play with me, 'cause Sean can come out. I'll beat anybody up. Don't play with me. Don't play with me, Ma. Don't, don't play with me.
Be who?
You heard me.
All right, everyone, listen, there's a lot of family drama that's going on here. We're gonna take a quick break. So we can unpack this. Do you wanna heal the relationship with your daughters?
Yeah, but if it's gonna be like that, I don't know why I'm here.
The answer is just yes.
The answer is yes.
Yes, yes.
'Cause your daughters are in their 20s and they're in a lot of pain too.
Yeah, and so am I.
They need you to put your pain aside and just hear what they've been through. I wanna make sure y'all are taking baby steps. If I bring your daughters back out, can you just hear them without making any defenses?
Well, I'm not even gonna say nothing.
You will? So can I bring them back out?
Mm-hmm.
Okay. In the intention of healing.
Yes.
And so you'll be able to listen?
Yes.
I believe you. All right, can we bring, I wanna bring Kayla and Melody back out. [APPLAUSE] Okay, so ladies, the floor is yours. You talk to her from your pain, from your hearts about what it is.
Just be a mom. I guess, like, you know, have a nurturing feeling.
She needs to show me love.
Be more attentive as a person, as a human, as a mom, I guess.
What do you need to say to your mother?
I try to understand her, but when she's wrong, I can't side with you.
What is she wrong about that you need her to hear?
That she don't love her kids.
Can you assure your children that you love them? Can you assure your daughter that you love her?
'Cause I tell 'em every day of my life, I love them, I love them. When these kids don't call me and you gotta see, I call them and be like, what the fuck you calling me for?
Huh?
Who says that to you?
You have said that to me.
Ma, your dad and mother, I never said that. Don't play with me. Don't play with me. Don't play with me.
I'm not gonna let you.
You don't tell me why you calling me for.
Don't play with me.
It's the unfortunate part about this today is that there's too much pain here to unpack.
Yes.
And y'all are too close.
But it takes day by day. And this is just start.
I won't think about her. She's irrelevant. I don't care.
When it's her time to go to the king, don't call me. I don't care. I don't care.
I don't care.
You grow up.
Grow up. But, Mom, it's what you said.
It's what you said is what happens.
So it's okay for you to call us monsters?
So what are you?
So can we start there? Can we start here?
So what are you?
Hold on, this is what we're gonna do. This is what we're gonna do here. Can you at least, as their mother, when you leave this show, 'cause I'm about to end this now, can you at least from this point on realize that Calling your daughters or your children monsters, the other children as well, they're not here, is not going to help you get the relationship you want with them.
But it is so bad.
So can you commit to not calling them monsters anymore?
We're demons.
Can you tell them you will not call them out their names like that anymore?
I won't call them out your names no more.
Can you do it in a way that, no, we're not gonna clap for that because that—
No, we're not gonna clap for that. I was capping.
I won't call them out their names no more.
Mom, be genuine though.
But I'm telling you.
Do you mean it though? Just say you're not gonna call us names, that's it.
That I'm not gonna call you a monster?
Yeah.
No. Well, there we go.
There we go.
There we go.
I wish y'all the best of luck. Thank you so much. I really do, sincerely. And I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I love you.
All right, everyone.
Yeah.
Well, I'm here to find out if Sharonda's my mother and to also find out if Victor's my father because I was adopted at 11 months.
Okay, at 11 months. Wow. So how was your childhood?
Well, my childhood kind of changed for me at like I 7. was 6 because my mom, my adopted mom ended up getting married and we ended up moving to Washington State.
Got it.
So my life changed to where everything became strict. There was no secular music. I ended up going to private school for like my whole elementary life and yeah.
So other than the strictness, it sound like it was a good life?
I did go through some things, but overall it was a good life.
Do you remember your biological family at all?
No. At all?
I don't remember anything. All I've been told is what I've been told since the age of 19.
Got it. And what were you told at the age of 19?
I was told, well, I was contacted by my mother's sibling, her sister.
Mm-hmm.
And she had messaged me on Facebook and was like, "We've been looking for you. You've been missing." Wow. And we'd like to fly you out. And so I ended up flying out the next week.
How did you know these people? Did you know these people were who they said they were?
I don't.
You didn't?
I still don't.
You still don't?
Yeah.
So you just took the risk and said, "Let me take the flight out." Yeah. Yeah. So what did they tell you about your past?
I learned from my past by my nana. Nobody else has told me really anything.
Okay.
But what my nana told me was when my mom had me, I was only like 3 weeks. She left me at a neighbor's house. But the neighbor knew about it, And her daughter was the one that was watching me. A child, a minor was watching me.
Wow.
And I ended up getting left there for over a week. And so my Nana got called from the parent of the neighbor and she was like, "You gotta come get the baby 'cause she don't got no food, no clothes." So my Nana ended up coming to get me and I was only like 3 weeks. But at that time my Nana already had 3 of my mother's other children.
Got it.
And my Nana had also had her, second child, which was 13 years younger than my mother.
Got it.
So yeah.
What did they tell you about your mother?
That she would be out all the time and that she was, she wanted to be famous basically. She always would run away from home since the age of 13 to go be in the studio and things like that.
Got it.
And what about your father or potential father?
Well, I heard that when I was 3 months after my nana had me, she got custody of me, she had to go to work. So to send us all to our fathers, our potential fathers, supposed fathers. So Victor was my supposed father. She sent me to him. He kept me for about 3 months, but he ended up calling my nana, his mom ended up calling my nana and telling her to come get me because he wasn't my father.
Got it.
Yeah.
So your mother gave birth to 8 children?
Yes.
And did she raise any of them?
She's raised them for maybe a little bit, but my nana, She still has custody of her youngest 3 now.
Oh, youngest 3 now.
Yeah.
Wow. Okay then. And do you know why she hasn't gotten them back now? Because you said earlier when she was younger, she was chasing stardom. She was trying to be in the studio, but now she's older, I'm assuming.
She's still doing the same thing.
She's still doing the same thing from what you've been told.
From what I've been told and from what I've known. Like when I met her at the age of 18, I went to the clubs with her and performed with her.
Oh wow.
So yeah.
'Cause how old are you now?
I'm 24 now.
24 now. So this has been about 5 years that you've known this woman.
Yeah.
From 18 to now.
From 18 to now.
Wow. And you perform with her. So potential mother and potential father reconnected 2 years ago. So they are in a relationship now? Got it.
I don't know.
Got it. Do you have a relationship with them?
I have a relationship with my supposed mother, but—
And when you say kinda, like do y'all talk on the phone every day?
No.
Not.
Like what? Like once a week, once a month?
Maybe once a month.
Do you talk to your potential siblings?
Yeah.
You do talk to them?
I do.
Okay then.
Because we all have the same understanding as we know who she is and we know who we are. Like we have our own connection as siblings.
So yeah. When was the last time you saw your potential mother?
Last year.
Last year. Okay then. All right everyone, well help me welcome Ayala's potential mother Sharonda to the show. Everyone, welcome Sharonda. [APPLAUSE] Hey Sharonda, how are you doing?
I'm fine, I never meant to abandon you like that. It wasn't me that abandoned you, okay? My mom, my mom had you and I didn't know that she had put you up for adoption. I didn't know that none of this stuff had happened 'Cause as you know, yes, I was in the streets and I was trying to do my music thing. And Victor actually got you when you were 3 months old, like you said, but he had you for a year and I thought that everything was fine and that you were gonna be okay with him. He took you back to my mom and told her that you weren't his daughter. And I didn't know nothing about you going into adoption until you were actually gone. So— I love you though. And I know for a fact that you are my daughter and I was looking for you throughout the years, but we, We knew that we could not contact you until you were a certain age, okay?
If you didn't know that this happened, once you became 18, why didn't you try to have a closer connection? She said that y'all talk maybe once a month, if.
Well, when my sister and my daughter located her, she actually called me on the phone and was like, "Are you my mom?" And I'm like, "Well, who is this?" And she goes, "Aaliyah." Well, my daughter's name is Ayala. And she said, "Well, my foster parents, they changed my name." I thought my sister and my daughter were playing a prank on me 'cause that's what we used to do. We used to play pranks and I was like, this is a really messed up prank if you guys are playing with me. And they sent pictures and I was like, yeah, she kinda look like me, but I don't know.
Okay, so do you believe she's your daughter?
I do.
You do?
I do.
She looks just like me.
Okay, and Let's go back. So at that time in your life, I heard you say that you were pursuing your music, you were in the streets. Why didn't you raise her or any of your other kids?
Well, I started running away when I was like 13 years old. And I started having babies and they just kept coming out. Well, my second pregnancy was twins.
How old were you when you had your first child?
16. I was 16 when I had my first daughter.
And then when you had twins, how old were you?
19. All my kids are 3 years apart.
Was there addiction or something of why you weren't able to or just?
I was in the streets with the music thing. I wanted to be a star.
Okay, I hear you. Well, I'm getting a ping right now and Sharonda, apparently your mother had something to say. Let's take a listen.
Yaela was her mother's 4th child and at the time of her birth, of Yaela's birth, her mother didn't have custody of any of her children. I had her children. And I raised all of them, with the exception of Yaela. So I decided that, you know, the children should spend some time with their father if they wasn't going to be with their mother. She went to live with Victor. Victor called and said he was not the father. He kept blaming his best friend to be the baby's father. The baby didn't resemble his best friend. I picked her up. She was picked up and never to see him again, period. Mm-hmm.
Wow, okay. Do you have a good relationship with your mother?
I do now, yeah.
You do now?
Okay, you didn't before?
No, not really.
Okay, so why did you let your mom put her up for adoption?
I didn't know that she was actually in the foster care system at that time.
Got it.
Until she was actually gone.
And did you ever—
Where were you though to not know?
I was in the streets, I was out. I was traveling.
Did you ever try to contact me? I was wondering if you ever called or checked on us too.
I did. That's why you were there at the time that you were there at my grandmother's house because it was time for me to visit with my children. I was in town to visit, to spend time with my children, but I never knew that you were in actual foster care. I didn't know this until you were gone.
So Victor, you and him dated back in the day?
Yes.
And is he your boyfriend now?
Yes.
Okay, from your opinion, is Victor her father?
I believe so, yes.
Yes, okay. Are there any other potential fathers?
Yes, his best friend. But when me and Victor, when Ayala was conceived, me and Victor, we were not a couple.
So what is your relationship with her potential father like now?
We're good.
Even if it comes back?
If it comes back that Victor is her father, I don't see a future with me and Victor because that's just—
If it comes back that he's not the father. If he is. Oh, if he is the father.
Just because, you know, the reason that he abandoned her.
Got it. So if he is the father, you don't wanna pursue a relationship because of the fact that at 3 weeks he gave her up.
Because another woman gave him an ultimatum.
Got it, got it. But is that a little double standards? 'Cause you weren't there either.
I wasn't there either, true.
Mm-hmm.
That is true, but I didn't abandon my child for, because someone told me to.
But you abandoned your child 'cause you told yourself to.
I didn't abandon her.
I didn't know that she was gone, you know?
How long have you and Victor been back together?
2 years.
2 years now. Okay then. Did you propose to him? Yes, I did. You did?
Okay.
Yes, I did.
Did he say yes?
No, he told me no. He told me that he was not gonna marry me. He didn't wanna marry me.
Why?
He didn't say why.
Oh, okay. Well, I wanna see what Sharonda's boyfriend and your potential father, Victor, has to say about all this. So everyone, please welcome Victor to the show. Hey, how are you doing today, sir?
I'm doing fine, and yourself?
I'm good, thank you. I like them shoes.
Thank you, thank you.
Yeah, you're welcome. So do you think you are Ayala's father?
Well, it's hard for me to say, you know. I'm here to find out for the most part. I had her when she was a little kid, you know. Sharonda kept telling me that she was my daughter, right? And I went and got her, I got her caught up on all her shots, everything that, you know, a parent's supposed That's what you do. And it's like, you know, I took care of her for a period of time. At the time I was going to school, raising, I had my son from Mississippi that was at my mother's house. And I also was in a relationship with a female that she still accepted Ayala 'cause Ayala was there with us, she watched Raised her and took care of her, you know, and it's like, you know, everybody accepted her when she was with me, but then, you know, my life compelled me to just, you know, like, take her to her granny's because, you know, it was just something about it, you know, it was just a feeling, you know.
How does it make you feel that he doesn't think that he's your father?
I don't feel it either.
You don't feel it either?
Yeah.
Well, listen, I think it's time to unlock the DNA truth. [APPLAUSE] First, we gave Sharonda a DNA test. DNA test to find out if you are in fact her biological mother. So this is your truth to open, not mine. So here you go. Yes, this is your truth to open. Oh.
This is for Sharonda?
Yes, it's for Sharonda. What's it say?
Thank you.
You're lying.
So it says Sharonda is your biological mother. Yeah, I knew that.
Okay.
I was like, I was like, okay.
Take them both teethbrush, they gonna look like twins.
Yeah, so.
So that was no denying it.
So how does it feel to know this is actually your biological mother?
I knew it from the pictures.
You knew it from the pictures, you felt it?
Mm-hmm.
Okay then, how do you feel?
I feel great 'cause I knew she was my daughter. She looks just like me.
Got it.
She acts like me, she walks like me, she talks like me.
Yeah, okay, got it. Got it, got it, got it, got it. Okay, well let's get to the DNA truth to see if Victor is your father. This is your truth to open up mine, so here you go. But yeah.
Ooh.
You nervous?
Yeah.
Yeah, what are you feeling right now?
'Cause this one, this is like the missing piece to the puzzle, kind of.
Yeah.
If it is true, you know?
Yeah.
But then it's like also I got something, I learned from my life experience in all of it because I know I will never do my kids the way I was done by my family.
So. Okay.
What does it say?
Oh wow.
What does it say?
It says, "Victor, you are not the father." You're not the father.
What? Okay.
So you said you had a feeling and you felt like it wasn't. Okay.
Wow.
What?
So Sharonda, what's going through your mind right now?
Wow.
Yeah. So you said at that time that it was also, you were in a sexual relationship with his best friend?
Yeah.
Do you still have contact? With that person?
Yes.
But it wasn't, that was just a one-time thing though with him.
Got it.
It was.
Victor, what are your thoughts on all this?
What is my thoughts? I don't have no thoughts.
No thoughts?
Nah.
Okay. And for you?
For me? There's still a missing piece to the puzzle.
Yeah, yeah.
And there's no hard feelings to him because at the end of the day he did what he was supposed to do. Supposed to do.
Yeah.
And more.
So does this change your relationship with Victor now?
No.
At all?
No, it doesn't.
Okay then. And so you for the same as well? You'll still continue this relationship?
Yeah, for the most part.
My whole thing was—
When you say for the most part.
My whole thing was, you know, with Victor, when he dropped the baby off and said that it wasn't his baby, no one ever seen any paperwork. So that's why it was like, well, where's the paperwork? We have no proof of this. And I just wanted proof. I wanted to see this for myself.
Well, would you like our support in testing the best friend?
Well, he already said that he would, yeah.
Okay then, great. 'Cause you need to know this.
Yeah.
Well, I'll tell you this, I'm glad, Victor, that you have your answers. Well, Sharonda, I'll tell you this, we would love to support you in figuring out if this other person is her father.
Yeah.
And I would also encourage you in the meantime while we're doing that, you know, one of the things I heard a lot is I don't think you really acknowledge what your actions were at that time. There are some excuses about like how it was Victor and how your mother did this. And I don't think that you're really looking at your choices.
I definitely know what I did and I apologize to you.
And I apologize. I see you too.
There you go. Yeah.
Well, I don't really need no apology.
Well, I feel like it's old.
What I appreciate the most is what you did there is you did take accountability. You gave an apology whether he wanted it or not, but also you gave an apology to her. And I think that's the most important thing because I think that is going to help y'all to heal this relationship and mend it and to get closer, okay?
Thank you.
When you hear someone else's story, you learn empathy. You educate yourself on their experience. My first guest's story is very shocking. Brandon reached out to the show for help with confronting his childhood bully, his mother Shirley. It's been 7 years since Brandon has last saw Shirley, and this will be the first time he addresses his past with her. Please everyone, welcome Brandon to the show. [APPLAUSE] How you doing?
Good, you?
I'm good.
You look great.
Thank you.
Thank you.
So now y'all see why I had to come sharp today. Brandon said, "I'm not playing with you." How's it going?
Good, you?
I'm really good. So this was shocking to me when I read this, that you said you're facing your bully and it being your mother.
Yes.
Tell me about your experience.
Wow. So my mother has always been, you know, who she is, you know, I was bullied a lot as a child for being different. And when I say different, I mean being gay.
Yeah.
I'm child number 4 out of 8, and I am the second boy. So you can only imagine like the pressure it is to be a Black male in the South, raised in North Carolina. I remember when I was 13, almost 14, I was in 8th grade, we got into a huge fight.
Yeah.
And, you know, I remember she like just punched me dead in my chest.
Wow.
And, you know, she said something to the effect of, "I wish I had an abortion," or, "I wish I didn't have you," right? And those words stick with me to this day.
Yeah.
And so when I hold myself to such a high standard that whenever I don't feel like I'm meeting my own expectations, I'm so down on myself. And that fight sticks to my head so vividly.
And I remember, 'Cause she made you feel like you weren't enough.
Like I was scum. Like I was like nothing.
So did Shirley raise you?
Until I was 13, 14 years old. So we were with my grandmother on and off.
Okay.
So Shirley was in and outta the picture. And then when I was almost 14 years old, you know, Shirley went to rehab and you know, in North Carolina how they do it is, you know, your kids go to siblings or someone else to go. And I remember sitting in that room and no one in my family wanted to take me. Me. Like I had nowhere to go. And I remember like it was end of 8th grade. I remember talking to my friend and I was like, "Hey, like, you know, I might be leaving." She was like, "What do you mean?" I was like, "Well, if I can't find somewhere to go, you know, I might go to group home or foster care." And then her mom was like, "I'll take him." Wow, that's great. Right? And school came around and it's 14, 15-year-old me starting high school and Shirley was nowhere to be found. We couldn't find her. And in North Carolina, you have to have parent consent to do any sports or anything. And Shirley came and signed over her kinship to my neighbor and that was that.
Wow, okay.
I danced a lot of my troubles away. Like I found myself in the arts and she missed, I was in The Nutcracker for 4 years. Nice. Look, there's me, cheer.
You were a cheerleader as well?
Yes.
Yeah. I cheered in high school. I was the first male cheerleader at my high school.
Nice, breaking records.
That's my college graduation. I'm the first one outta 8 to graduate from college.
Good job.
Yeah.
And I did that by myself, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
She missed out on a lot, but I'm ready to close that chapter in my life and get closure. So I'm like seeking your help today to help me, you know, get closure close that chapter and maybe hopefully open a new chapter with Shirley. Maybe, maybe not. But I would love for your help just to address that.
Well, I'm here to help you. So everyone, welcome Shirley to the show. [APPLAUSE] I'm fine. So I just wanna let you know, I'm not here to judge you. I want to hear your side of the story as well, honestly, because I heard what your son had to say. What she had to say. And I want to hear from you what was going on during those times that you two weren't together.
And this me signing him away? I didn't never sign him away to nobody.
Shirley.
And this is not what I came out here to do. He is not gonna bash me. I'm not bashing you. This is when he said I punched him in the chest 'cause he thought he was man enough or big enough to fight me. Ain't nothing that came outta me. Gonna sit here and jump on me and think they man enough to whoop my ass. Uh-uh. I ain't it.
Okay, let's talk about facts. Let's talk about facts. How did I go all the way through school without parent signature? You were supposed to come back and get me.
I ain't it.
I got receipts. Shirley, you literally cannot sit here and say like you did not sign up for kinship. I got paperwork.
That day when you jumped on me, And I told your ass up.
This is literally, this is very—
And me bullying you? No, I told you like this, I knew what you was when you was 3 years old. I knew you were gay and I told you, be what you are and be the best that you are 'cause you always half of me, period.
So Cheryl, how—
Okay, but why did it not translate to actions, right? Why were you never in my corner backing me up? Why were you never cheering for me? How come I went through my entire—
Just like when that boy tried to whoop your ass and I told you, you better tear his ass up or I was gonna whoop your ass. I never sat here and not had your corner.
Describe from your own words, what was your relationship like with Brandon back then?
Brandon had his own functional attitude.
She doesn't even know that when I left home, I tried to take my own life. She has no clue.
Do you even know that?
Did you even know I even tried to take mine too?
It's always a one-up. Shirley has to one-up everything.
Do you know how many nights I stayed up crying over y'all?
Oh, okay.
That's what I say, okay.
What was I looking for?
Because again, it's always the one-up, right? You know what I mean?
I one-upped what?
I was crying, so, oh, I'm crying too. Well, baby, we both crying.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
You know what I mean? We're both crying.
Shirley, did you get into fights with your other children?
I whooped my oldest daughter's ass 'cause she thought she could whoop my ass too.
Was that what happened to you when you were a child?
My mama tore my ass up all the time.
Okay.
So what's the difference?
Why didn't you want your son in your house when he was doing that?
'Cause when you think you're grown than me, then you need to be out on your own.
Okay, well.
But he was 13.
But when you think you grown than me, then you need to be on your own.
Do you feel like Brandon is unfairly blaming you for the past?
They can blame me all they want to.
But do you think he's unfairly blaming you? Yeah.
Okay.
Why do you think he's unfairly blaming you?
I know I did my wrong. Ain't no parent perfect. Nobody. Nobody's perfect. I made amends, I tried to apologize and all of that.
No.
Shirley, when did you reach out to me and try to apologize?
I did the things I needed to do to make my past, to get over my past, to make sure I don't repeat it.
When did you reach out to me to apologize?
But I'm not gonna keep talking about it.
When did you reach out to me to apologize? —my past— When did you reach out to me and apologize?
—because my past is what made me here and brought me here today.
When have you reached out and apologized?
I've done things for Brandon and done said things and told Brandon I love him and forgive me for what I did wrong. I done said that over the phone many a times.
So, Ms. Shirley, I'm gonna say Shirley.
I'm not gonna keep apologizing for what I also—
I'm gonna say Shirley.
—tried to do wrong.
He just said—
I tried to make right.
But he's saying to you right now that he hasn't heard that apology.
So I will give her credit. She did reach out to me last year when I was in the hospital. I was in the hospital. She did buy me food and pay half my rent 'cause I was in the hospital, right? I will give her that. I will give her that credit. [APPLAUSE] But when she says, "I love you," and, "I apologize," sometimes it's hard to believe what's real and what's not real.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, those are the years that you felt like you had trouble.
Because of all the hurt. So it's hard to, you know, take the real from the fake.
So what did you need from Shirley back then?
What I needed from Shirley back then was someone who's gonna protect me, someone who's gonna cheer for me, Someone in my corner, someone to advocate for me. Because I went through a lot. Whether she wants to believe it and admit it or not, I went through a lot as a child.
Do you believe like you did those things for him when he was younger? Protect him, cheer for him?
I did give him praise and I still give him praise. Whether he believe it or not, that's on him.
Okay.
That's on him. I tell him now till the day when I speak to him, I'm proud of you.
Yeah.
Whether he choose to believe it or not, that's on him.
But it's easy to be proud of help someone when you didn't help create that amazing person. You know what I mean?
Look at her right now and tell her what did you need from her back then?
I needed you to be there. Even if I wasn't there, I can still tell you to the day, I'm proud of you, period. I can still tell you I'm proud of you. [APPLAUSE] Somebody ain't got to be there. If you feel like they want, they can still be proud of you, of who you are as a person, a man or whatever, they can still, just like my mama won't did for me, but I'm still proud of me.
You've taught me so many things indirectly. You taught me what I wanted from a partner. She was in a very abusive relationship growing up. And watching that, and I went through an abusive relationship. The guy who was my boyfriend was also my bully. Believe it or not. And I thought that was normal because that's what she went through. But as I got older, I realized I don't want anyone hitting me. I don't want anyone talking down to me.
Yeah, yeah.
So she's taught me so many things indirectly, which is why I'm here. Like, I wanna be able to start fresh, but we can't start fresh without addressing the past. It shouldn't have taken me being in the hospital for you to reach out.
But we was reaching out before that too, little bit by little bit.
Shirley, when he was younger, were you in survival mode?
Yeah.
Yeah. What was that like for you? 'Cause now just getting this other information that you didn't know.
I've been on my own since I was 16.
Yeah.
Great.
And I took care of mine. I did what I had to do to take care of mine.
Yeah.
So I worked, I hustled a little bit. So I did what I had to do to take it. They didn't go without.
Yeah.
So—
I will say this woman is a true fighter. I've, again, I've seen everything. Yeah.
Everything.
Yeah. I've seen everything. Again, she has taught me, and I think that's where I get my strength from. So I feel like I get my survival mode and my strength and my awareness from her.
Shirley, I wanna know.
I didn't lie to him.
Okay, that's a little bit of a stretch.
When I hustled, I never lied to y'all when I was hustling.
Oh, okay.
I didn't lie to y'all.
All right.
Y'all knew where the money was and everything.
Yeah, well, Shirley, 'cause hold on.
I didn't know what the other stuff was, but Daddy just said anything happened, the money was such place.
Shirley, your son wants a resolution. I know you just said you thought you were working on it, but it seems like in this moment in his life, the abandonment that he felt, and I can tell that from your perspective, it was like you did the best you could. Hearing now also you were 16, that you were on your own. It's not that I'm excusing behavior, I'm not doing that. But what I'm saying is I could understand where you were. I understand now more the aggression. But your son is saying to you right now that, "I want to build more of a relationship, but I don't feel like you're hearing me when I say I was hurt." Can you just acknowledge that he was hurt?
Okay, he was hurt.
Can you acknowledge that?
But do you see how she says it though?
But hold on, no, no, no, because this is what I'll say to you because I'm on your side. So one of the things that you have to let go is that if you really want a relationship with her, whatever she says and how she says it, you've gotta try to give her the benefit of the doubt from this point on. She's saying to you, "I can acknowledge," but in your mind you're like, "It's not what I want. It's not what I want." We have to understand especially about generational wounds and trauma. And that's what we're experiencing.
Yes.
Your mother didn't have the tools. And again, I'm not excusing behavior, but she didn't have tools and she did the best she could. I do believe you tried. Yeah.
I do believe.
But I also know that her trying left you feeling very abandoned and alone because she didn't know what to do. What do you need for her to say, to forgive this and start to move on? What do you need?
I think what I need is just her to be there, be more active, be more visible. I want you to genuinely call and say, "Hey, how are you doing? What do you need from me today?" When I invite you to things, I want you to be like, "Okay, I'm coming." Okay. I'm about to get married. I want you to be there.
[APPLAUSE] Okay.
Do you wanna be this early?
Oh yeah.
Yeah, you do?
So I could dance in the middle for some of the things. The Lord, he's married now.
I noticed something. You use humor to mask your feelings and it's a protection for you. I get it, I get it. I see it now. 'Cause even when you were saying, "I want you to be there," your body language moved closer to you. She moved into you. She does wanna be there and she gave you an apology on this show today. And I think that should be the first step for you to know that you can heal this. I do believe your mother hears you. I truly do. I truly do. Shirley, is there anything you wanna say to your son before we go?
You know I love you. I love you with all my heart. Do anything for you, I'll be there.
Thank you. Thank you.
Okay, so I need to know because what I just read was pretty serious. What happened? What happened on 4th of July?
We started fighting. So she came towards me, we were going back and forth. She was saying something like, "I'll choke slam you, I'll slap you," because she didn't like how I was talking to her. But she was coming at me aggressive, so I gave her the same energy. Then she, I remember she like grabbed me by my neck and like pushed me on the bed.
Oh my gosh, okay.
And then she grabbed me by my neck, pushed me on the bed, and then as I was like getting back up, I don't remember exactly I don't know really how it led to it, but we started having like a tugging war. Like she pulled me by my hair and I pulled her by hers. So like at this point we're going like back and forth. I'm telling her, let me go. You're in the room? Yes. That situation made me like not wanna deal with her.
Got it.
Did she throw things at you that day too?
Yeah, so she threw like one of the game boxes and it hit me in my face.
Is this the first time you got physical with your mom?
No.
No.
We just started arguing recently, probably like last year is when we got in like the biggest argument 'cause usually like I'll just shut down, I won't talk anymore.
Got it. Oh, so your personality is you shut down. So do you feel like she threatens you? Is that what's making you shut down?
She threatens me when she feels like I'm being combative.
Did she threaten you that day?
Yes.
You told my producers that you said that your mother says she's going to make you leave. "Your mother said to you, 'You gonna make you leak.'" Now listen, I have friends in the hood, so I know what, when they say that, what that mean.
Right.
If someone says they gonna make you leak, what did you take it as when she said that?
That she's trying to like, she wanna fight me. Like I'm not her kid anymore. So when she was talking to me, it was like, what's up? Like, I don't wanna be like that with my mom, but I'm sorry.
No, you fine. Yeah. Yeah. What was it like growing up with your mom?
Crazy.
Yeah, in what ways?
She had like abusive relationships. I had to intervene a lot of times.
Okay.
Yeah, I would be in the middle of it. I would have to be like a mediator because it was more like the person that she dealt with at the time, it was like, he'll be more aggressive towards her than he was to me. So, but okay, well talk to him and see, make sure he doesn't come to house and try to harm us or something. It was really like I was put in situations I didn't wanna be in.
Mm. Did your mom get into physical altercations with other people when you were younger?
Yes.
She did. What happened when she was 8 months pregnant with your sibling?
So that day she was going to McDonald's. It wasn't that far. She asked me if I wanted to go with her and that day I just didn't feel like it. So, 'cause she didn't have her car, that's why she walked to McDonald's. She see, I guess she seen her car in the street. She seen her car in the street or she seen the person that had her car in the street. She seen them and then like she confronted them and like, presumably like was tussling or whatever. The girl, she ran her over.
Ran your mother over. And she was 8 months pregnant.
Mm-hmm.
Okay, and so how old were you at this time? 7. So you're 7 years old and your mother gets ran over while pregnant. Did your siblings survive?
Did not survive.
Okay, okay. So what does she say now when you bring it up?
Get over it.
Oh, okay. What did your mom say when she found out you were pregnant at 17?
She wanted to abort it.
She wanted you to abort it, okay. And what did you say back?
At first I was like, okay, like maybe she's right, maybe. But then when it was like, time to go forth with it, I was like, "Okay." Don't wanna do it, yeah.
And your mother is 38 and you're 21, so she had you at 17. So you had a child at 17, your mother had a child at 17.
Mm-hmm.
Okay, understand. So what do you want from me today? What are you hoping for?
I want my mom to understand what she put me through. I understand, like, you know, we came and we passed it, but I want you to like, not admit, but own up to what you put me through.
Got it.
Acknowledge it at least.
Got it, got it, got it. Okay, that makes a lot of sense to me. Well listen, it's time to meet your mom. So everyone please welcome Portia to the show.
[APPLAUSE] So, hello.
How you doing? So first of all, I'm just, don't understand how me being ran over caused her so much trauma to where it's like she just can't get over it. One fact, you weren't there. That's a fact. You didn't see me getting run over. I didn't say it was you. Right, I know I didn't say that, but you didn't see me getting ran over. You didn't like experience that. So I'm just saying, so to put yourself in that trauma and stay in it, it's something that I just can't do.
Porsha, I wanna know from you, can you tell me what happened on the 4th of July?
Yeah, uh.
You can take a seat, please. Yeah, please take a seat. Thank you. Thanks for being here, by the way. Right.
Yeah. So the 4th of July, okay, first of all, I'm yelling at my youngest daughter. So if you see I'm yelling at her, I'm the mama, you know, this a bear, I'm roaring right now. So I'm yelling and then I come in there and I say something to you and I got an attitude. Me, if I was there, I'm like, girl, bye.
You talk at me, you don't talk to me.
No, you're too sensitive.
No, I'm not.
Yes, you are. I don't like that. Like I'm not gonna be on no—
No, you don't know how to understand. Take what people say to you and you don't be like, "Okay, well I did this, I'm sorry." You don't know how to apologize. You be like, "Okay, well get over it." Like, "Oh well." Why did they get physical that day though?
I'm still not understanding why they get physical.
Because when she stood up, she was talking to Buck. You know what I mean? Don't get up and start bucking at me.
You kept saying you would hit me.
Like, what do you mean?
Juicy, I did not tell you that I would hit you.
Yes, you did. You kept threatening me.
Well, guess what?
Say, "Well." Get outta my face then. Girl.
Who threw the first punch that day?
It wasn't no punches because she was doing too much. So yeah, I choked her a little bit. Yeah, get down, sit down.
How do you communicate when you're angry?
Mm, I don't know, it'd be both. It could be, I could be mixed talking verbally or I'm, yeah.
So when you get angry, you get loud, you get aggressive and you sometimes you might have to get physical.
Right, yeah, but with her, it's not because you're my child, so I most definitely don't wanna take it there.
Of course.
You get what I'm saying? So that's not the case. Like, you get what I'm saying? Even with us fighting, her, you know, me telling her, "Oh, I'm gonna make you leak." Yeah, because I want her to understand, "Look, girl, you don't even fight, not like that. You're not a fighter. I'm a fighter." She knows that. So you pulling my hair right now, and I'm just trying to let you pull my hair, but I'm trying to let you know, you keep holding on to it, I'm gonna make you leak. So then you gonna have to, Let me go.
Yeah.
What do you mean by that every time you say, "I'm gonna make her leak"?
Like, her—
'Cause where I'm from, you say I'm gonna make somebody leak, it's 'cause you putting holes in 'em.
Yeah. So yeah.
Okay. And how do you think it makes her feel when you say things like, "I'm gonna make you leak"?
I'm gonna be real, I don't care because my whole point is that, you know what I mean? Like, don't come at me in that type of manner and I'm not gonna come at you in that type of manner. You know what I mean? Like, let's respect each other. And then furthermore, I'm your mom, so you get what I'm saying? Some things a mom can say to you and you just be like, okay, whatever. My mom yells at me, say a little, you know what I mean? Sometimes I wanna go crazy on her, but then I be like, oh, hang up. You get what I'm saying? So I'm telling her, hey, move like that, do stuff like that. She just—
Yeah. You tell my producers you think she lazy. Yeah.
Mm-hmm. In what way? Cleaning up, like that's another reason why I don't care that she's not at the house. Like she doesn't like to clean up, she doesn't wash dishes. One time she made a big old meal. So if you make a big meal, mind you, oil splashing all over the stove, you need to clean that stuff up because oil sticks on the stove. That's not a good thing. It's not a good look, none of that. So, you know, clean. I come in there, I'm like, "Hey, could you come clean this stuff up?" You know what she tell me? She tell me, "I'm just gonna wash these dishes." No, honey, you're gonna clean up this entire kitchen because you just messed it up. So that's what you're gonna do.
Were you disappointed when she got pregnant at 17?
Most definitely.
You were?
Yeah. Why?
Because I was pregnant at 17. I had a baby at 17 and—
Is this normal how she does? She gets shut down?
Mm-hmm.
So she gets quiet. When she gets quiet like this, she shut down. What do you normally do?
Keep talking.
You keep talking.
Mm-hmm.
Uh-huh. Do you ask her what's wrong with her?
Yeah.
And what did she say?
No, this time she said, "What's wrong with you? Like, why you got an attitude?
Why you don't like—" Nobody wanna talk to nobody like that.
I don't wanna talk to you.
How would you like her to respond to you?
Sometimes she overtalks, like she talks too much sometimes.
Do you feel like your mother loves her?
I don't know.
I gotta tell y'all that I can see very quickly what the breakdown in this relationship is. It's interesting because I see both of your sides and I see immediately like why you want the sort of certain things in your house. And I also see why you shutting down. There's been a continuous pattern in your entire life of like you experience something that's traumatic, you experience something that's abusive, and then all of a sudden you tell your mother and your mother's like, "Get over it." Because you've had to be strong. You've had to be the one has figure it out. You've had to be able to be like, "I gotta keep going." You've never had time to sit there and be sensitive sensitive and figure it out. Right. You had a child when you were 17, you had abusive partners, you've always had to say, let me get my ass back up and figure this out today. There's no time to be sensitive and quiet.
Facts.
I get it. But yet on the other side, she grew up in a house where she saw those things, where she saw trauma, and so she needed time to process because for her, she didn't have the mentality of thinking like, I gotta get up and doing it. And so even like some of the language y'all use back and forth of like, you say she's too sensitive. That's all language of somebody who's trying to process their feelings. They're trying to figure out what am I going through? 'Cause the interesting part is I just think about the fact of like when you lost your child, and I'm very, very sorry. I know it's been years now, but that stays with a mother. I know that. And I'm very sorry that happened.
Thank you.
And the thing is that when she brought it up, I understood what you meant by like, that didn't happen to you. And so when she talks about the sibling that she didn't even know from your point of view, you're like, that didn't happen to you. But what did happen to her, and I wrote this down, is that she experienced something that is even more hurtful for a child. Not in equal ways, by any ways. I'm not comparing your hurt because you lost a child. But she lost security at that point. And I don't think you've ever realized that. Because on that day, she realized that she could lose her mom and that her life could be lost. And for a child to realize at a young age and not be able to process that, and then as they get older be told that's That's not your trauma. That's not for you to deal with. Of course she's always gonna shut down because she never got clarity and security. You feel what I'm saying on that?
Yeah, I do.
I do.
What's going on in your head right now?
I don't know how to react like sensitive. I don't. Boom, that's it.
That's it. So what y'all gotta do is learn how to react to each other. That's what needs to happen. And so every way you've been reacting to her From near here on out, it's not gonna work. Do you miss your mom, honestly?
Yes and no. Like, you're still, even the stuff that you was going through, you're still going through that right now. And I'm still in the middle of it. Is my mom gonna be okay? Is she, is like, what's going on? Like, I'm always on edge. I don't like, I've been like that for a long time. I don't like that.
You've been on edge forever.
Yes, I don't like that.
I got an edge. That's another word for what? Security.
Right.
That's all she's expressing to you. Mom, I need to be secure. Say, Mom, I wanna feel more secure.
Mom, I wanna feel more secure.
Stop crying.
You wanna hug me?
Oh my God.
[APPLAUSE] I love you, okay?
I love you too.
What that is, is just step one. That's what I can do for y'all here today. Use that language, "I need security right now," and let that resonate with y'all to help y'all build y'all relationship back, okay?
Okay.
I wish y'all the best of luck.
Thank you. Thank you.
All right, friends, make sure to come back next time so we can keep talking and we can keep growing. I love you all. Can I come give you a hug?
I know. Come here. I know. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I feel like this happened for a reason.
I'm here for a reason, clearly.
Yeah, yeah. Hopefully you got a little something outta that. Good, good. I'm so sorry, love. Good, good. Good, good. I'm glad. Oh, but we ain't got the mic now. We fine. I saw you crying. I just wanna be there for you for a little bit. I'm glad you got a little bit of something. Yeah.
You're welcome.
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