Nailing the Bread and Jam application

Hello everybody, I'm just trying to get you all to be able to talk. Not sure that's a good thing, but there we go. Yvonne, for some reason I can't get you to talk. Sorry, I'm not sure why that is.

Hello.

Oh, hello, how are you? I'm fine, thank you, Karen. It's Toques. How you doing? I'm doing very well, thank you. Good, at least I can see everybody now. It's really strange when you're just sitting here and going, where is everybody? I'm sure there are more people in the house. We've got 7 so far. I think we've got 35 signed up, so, um, but I don't know how many will be on the call and how many are going to watch it recorded, but the less people who are on the call, the more there is opportunity for you to ask questions.

Absolutely.

Okay, so hopefully you can all speak if you wish. Obviously, once we get started, if you can all mute.

Good morning, Karen.

Hi, how are you, Prince?

I'm very good.

Long time no speak. Absolutely. How's, how's life treating you? I'm hanging in there somehow. Yeah, there's a lot of it about— there's a lot of people who are doing amazingly well, and there's a lot of people who are pushing against all the challenges that we've been thrown, such as distribution and logistics. Logistics. I think it is mostly logistics, actually. Well, I don't know, it depends. You're not really in the— if you're in the meat business, there's a bit of a shortage of meat at the moment as well, so And I've got a couple of people in that position, but other than that, all is good. We'll just let people, a couple more people come on. And in fact, I just remembered my notes from yesterday. Did anyone go to the Bread and Jam Monday Motivation yesterday?

No.

That's good because anything I tell you will be news. Hi, Karen. Once I find the right piece of paper with it on anyway. Thank you. Say again? Ah, go on. Hi, sorry, I went to get a cup of coffee. That's all right, no worries, yokes allowed. I think I baked a cake at the last webinar I went to. Yesterday I was having my lunch at the bread and jam one, so that's the great thing about having webinars. You can just kind of get on with stuff. Let's bring a few more people on as you're coming on. Hi, Adam.

Hi.

You all right?

I'm all right. How are you?

Okay.

Yeah, I'm good. You sound tired. Yeah, a little bit.

A little bit, you know.

It's a lot going on in your life right now.

Yeah, exactly.

Now we are waiting some deliveries to come so we can just produce some more peanut butters and stuff.

Yay!

So everybody who's on this call, Adam's, uh, raising on Cedars at the moment. Heart and Soul Peanut Butter, little plug for you. Um, can I buy— what can you buy? You can buy it online. I'm a peanut butter Addict. Oh, well, you should definitely try Adam's. It's amazing. That's it, got a new customer this morning. Well, you can put in the chat your details and feel free to introduce yourselves. Um, I'm just going to bring up the chat. Um, so if you just put in— if you message everyone in the dropdown, if you want to say who you are and if you want to link in with people, you know, anyone who's worked with me in the past and knows LinkedIn is my favorite thing. So if you want to link in with people, great. Let's just see anybody on. Oh, and hello, Nadia's in. Jess is in. Raphael's in. Oh my goodness, everybody's coming on now. Excellent. Wow. Hi, Phil. How's it going? Well, from what you were telling me, which is good.

Hi Karen, sorry, darling, with my phone here I'm tapping furiously away in the wrong chat box, so yeah.

I hope you're not multitasking doing 2 webinars at once.

No, no, no, just dropping the kids off at school and then sitting in my car answering emails and calls, so, but glad to be here.

Excellent, okay, super job. Right, I am gonna get started, because we have a lot to get through. So if I just share my screen. Now, there are a lot of you today, so I will try and answer questions as we go. If it starts to get too bogged down, I'm going to put them to the end. So feel free to unmute yourself and ask questions. I will keep the chat In the top box, but it's just me, so juggling everything will be a bit of a challenge. Play from start. Okay, so I can see the chat. Let's put the chat down in the right-hand side. That's good. And then— Yeah, okay. As Let's get started. So as I say, everyone who wants— anyone who wants to ask questions, please do. Happy to help you out. And if I go too fast, just shout up. So let's get started. Just to make sure you're all here for the right thing, we are going to talk today about the application for Bread and Jam. And that's going to be the focus. I think I know most of you here, but just in case, somebody actually asked me the other day what I actually did, and I'd been talking for quite a while, so I thought I'll just recap my kind of numbers, as it were. I was a buyer for 7 years at Tesco's and then latterly at Boots. I had a bit of a career at Boots for about 14 years, which sort of came when I left. I was National Account Manager working with Safeway, so that was my first transition across the table, as it were. I've been commercial director for a number of different food businesses, from sushi to turkeys to Christmas puddings, all sorts of different things. And then I've been running Food Mentor, it'll be 5 years next month, which is pretty exciting. Between doing retained work and also obviously coaching and mentoring, we've got listings pretty much in all the majors: Sainsbury's, Budgens, Morrison's, Ocado, Selfridges, and list goes on, which is really great. The purpose of today is to just take you through applying for the pitches. I've been doing this for, gosh, how many years? Certainly 2, the last 2 years, maybe 3 actually, and we've had some great successes. And those of you who read my emails will be aware of the work that I've done with Dee. Dee and I presented at Bread and Jam in 2018 and finally spoke to Costco and finally listed— oh sorry, launched this year. So that gives you an idea of how long it might take to get your listing, but they're not all as long as that, but just to give you a sort of heads up. What I'm going to go through today very quickly, are you retailer ready? So let's have a very quick think about, should you be doing it now? And I've had a couple of people in the last week said, you know, should we do it now? Is it too soon? My personal view is it's never too soon, but we'll get into a bit more detail about that. Then we'll get into the wodge of it in terms of making the application, and then I want to talk to you about some marketing as well to just think through how can How can you increase your chances? It's not just about the application. So these are 5 points. I think I've just done another webinar where I had 7. I've kind of got them down to 5 now. Are you retailer ready? And it does depend, and we're going to have a quick whiz through and have a look at some of the people who were there this year. But have you got a big enough brand following and That doesn't mean have I got 50,000 followers on Instagram, although it helps. It's more about have you got a tribe, have you got some experience, have you already got some traction. So that might be if you're going after somebody like Whole Foods, you might only really need to have sold in 2 or 3 local delis, but at least you can show that you've got the traction, you've got some people buying your products, you might have a good direct-to-consumer following. You might have a good Instagram or Facebook or TikTok, but it's just thinking whether you've got enough behind you so that when you land, your brand will do something and it will sell to the extent that someone's looking for. And obviously we've got quite a broad breadth here from someone like Morrisons who, yes, they are looking for smaller local suppliers, but at the end of the day, that's pretty mass market, right down to the small babies like the Qcons, which a bit of an unknown quantity, so that's, that's going to be quite interesting. We'll come and talk about that. Do you comply with their requirements? Pretty much all of them except Selfridges on the bread and jam are looking for SALSA or BRC. My advice, for what it's worth, is Don't worry too much about it at this stage. If you're miles off, if you know that in the next year there's no way you're going to get SALSA or you're going to have a manufacturer with SALSA, then honestly there's no point applying to some of these guys. But on the other hand, you're raising the profile and you're saying, well, actually in 6 months' time we will have SALSA, or you find a solution. So just think it through. Don't lie, there's no point lying, but there is room on the form to make make a note. So just think, think about it. And then the other thing, which is a no-brainer, Planet Organic and Whole Foods, it's clear on the website what their standards are. If you've got an ingredient in your product that Whole Foods don't like, they ain't going to change it for you. So there's no point, cross them off your list. So, so those are my sort of thought processes. I know, I realize that the comment around salt is a bit waffly, but I think there's some sort of leverage there. Do you comply with UK labelling regulations and have barcodes? I think most of you who are on this call do, but it's just making sure you've got it. If you haven't, as you're probably aware, Bread and Jam have got a deal with GS1, so you can get hold of barcodes relatively cheaply, so that's straightforward. The next 2 are not so straightforward. So do you know your numbers? Again, if you listened to anything I do, you know that, that this is so key for me. Um, and one of the things that sort of— did it shock me yesterday? Sophie from Planet Organic was on the Monday Motivation, and she was saying she's looking for 60% margin once you combine her margin with the wholesaler margin. Um, and that's a bit of a chunk, especially if you're used to doing direct-to-consumer, and then someone's going to take a big bite out of your, of your delivery charge. So certainly have a think about what your margins are, what your costs are, make sure you cost it properly. I'm not going to get into it in a super load of detail. At the end of this, I'm going to tell you about my Pitch Perfect course, which I'm sure a lot of you are aware of. We're relaunching it in a couple of— well, we're opening up the enrolment now, but we're relaunching it in a couple of weeks and we'll go through numbers in a lot more detail. But Just make sure for the application you don't need commercials. I don't think anyone's asking for commercials, but you will obviously need to have something at the pitch, so it's just getting that in the back of your mind. And then the final one, have you got enough cash? Different folks, different strokes. Some guys are settling really early and some guys are taking a long time. Wholesalers actually can take up to 90 days to settle. So basically what that means is if you've sold a load of product, you're not— and you've paid a manufacturer to do it, or you've bought all your own materials and you've got to pay your staff, you're not going to get paid back for 3 months. So you need to do a little bit of thought process of have you got enough money just for the cash flow, but then also for the marketing investment. And again, it varies with the different retailers, and if again you've got questions towards the end, then we can have a look at any specifics that you're particularly interested in. So are you retailer ready? I'm guessing pretty much everyone on here who I know is ready, but just think about, because also it'll be good background for answering the questions. So just a little bit about the logistics of it. So applications opened on the 13th of September, the closing date is the 11th of October. Bread and Jam are saying first come, first served. I don't know if that's true or not. I would have thought if I was a buyer, I would wait for all the applications to come in and I would then spend the time having a look at it. I think it does no harm to get it done and dusted, and obviously I know a lot of you have been waiting for today, so once you've gone through today, then, you know, get the applications in and then you know that it's done. The winning pitches will be confirmed on the 15th of October, probably, and I want to manage your expectations on this because last year a couple of retailers were late. I know one retailer is going to be late and I can't remember which one it is, and if anyone knows, please, please shout up because I know Jason was talking about it the other day.

Harrods.

Say again?

Harrods.

Ah, okay, cool. And then you will get an email to say if you were successful, and then what we're doing with the successful people— and actually I haven't put it on there— on the 18th of October, although I don't think we've got time, through the Bread and Jam guys, I will be doing a workshop on how to put the pitch together. And we'll be going through slide by slide. the kind of thing that you should be putting in. But don't worry because that kind of sounds like everyone's going to have an identical pitch, it won't be like that, but it's just giving you some themes. So that's coming up. As I say, as you may be aware, I'm sponsoring the retail pitching this year, so I'll be doing that workshop. And then the actual physical pitching will be the 25th and 26th. So we're not going to worry about that today, we just want to get to the pitch, so one step at a time. So I have, and I will put it in the chat at the end once we finish this, I've actually downloaded all the forms because I have obviously nothing else to do with my life. And I've done it actually because I am doing a couple of people's pitch applications for them, and so I've downloaded all the forms and put it on one Word document and then just deleted the ones that I don't want to apply for, and then I've got the form. The reason— well, there's lots of reasons. Just to make your life easier, I've done it. But also, last year I did a couple of people's applications, and I thought that they would send me a copy, and they didn't. And then, of course, I didn't have either— one, had no record of it, and two, I had no details of what I'd actually written. So I'm sure you're all much more organized than I am, but I think it's useful to have a document with it filled in before and you can amend it and think about it and reflect. But the basics that we're going to focus on today are, what's the description of the brand? What's your product USP? What product category do you fit into? Products and brand details, that's pretty standard. Why is your brand beneficial to us? And any other comments. And if you have a look at the questions, I'm sure you've already had a look at them, they're all variations on that theme. So this is who I think is current. I know they're adding people, so this was current a couple of days ago. If anyone else has come on, then do remind me. Planet Organic and Whole Foods, very traditional, love small challenger brands, perfect for, for a lot of you who are on this call today. Planet Organic, as I say, were talking yesterday, and some of the things that you might want to make notes of are, do your research. And I think this is really key for all of these applications. There is such a temptation, and I wrote a whole set over the weekend for somebody, to cut and paste. And it's okay to cut and paste, but you do need to personalize them as well. So Think about each of the retailers if you get a chance. Obviously, as you know, I'm in South France. I haven't been able to go and visit all these stores. But if you are targeting somebody like Planet Organic, they've got a new store open, and I can't remember where it is. But if you go on your website, I'm sure you'll find it. So that's exciting. They're very excited about that. Go visit the stores, please. I cannot stress that enough because that will give you a much better idea of what to say. So. Do your research. Think about what you're going to invest. They're interested in what you're going to do for promotions and marketing. Sales and profit are important, but not super important. And then the other thing to be clear on, and this was useful information because I have to be honest, I didn't know this. The distributors they like working with are Wholegood, Borough Box. Tree of Life and CLF, and they won't take anything direct as far as I'm aware, and that's what she said. Now if one of you is dealing with them at the moment and go, actually that's not true, then please shout up, but that's what they're saying. So that's them. Cotswold Fair— Steve, you've put your hand up, please speak, can you speak? I bet you can't speak, can you? We've had trouble with you speaking before. And Alexis, stick your questions in the chat, I can see them.

Oh, I'll ask the question on Whole Foods because I met them at lunch and they said they won't talk to you until you come with the retailer.

Yeah, there's 2 problems with Whole Foods. That's one, and then the other problem is the fact that they're full And so they are at capacity at the moment. They've got a new warehouse opening in about 6 weeks' time because I'm trying to get one of my clients in there and they're chilled and that won't happen probably till the new year. Can I run through those wholesalers again? Yes, Wholegood, Borough Box, Tree of Life, And CLF. And it is wholesalers is a chicken and egg. And, you know, I've actually written a piece about wholesalers on my website. So if you go to thekarengreen.com, there is a, there's a whole piece on wholesalers because I thought it was quite interesting. It's not an area I, if I'm honest, I understand particularly well, but this whole, am I listed in a wholesaler? No, because you need to get the retailer listing. Again, it's a bit like the salsa. I think there's no harm in having a little, what's the word, degree of lying. I can't think of the right word, but yeah. So if you say to Planet Organic, yeah, we're working, we're thinking of working with Wholegood, or we're thinking of working with Borough Box, then that makes life easier. The only other thing I would say is if she's saying 60% margin between the two, that's quite a chunk. And all of those are quite different in terms of their terms and conditions and complexity. So anyway, let's not get too bogged down in that. I've got 2 more participants raising hands. I can't see who's raising hands, so the easiest thing for me, if you wouldn't mind, is put it in the chat because I've got 3 people. Okay, David, I can see you raising your hand. Yeah, mine was just a question on—

so this 60% margin, is that generally always a 50/50 split between the wholesaler and the retailer?

Generally, you know, you start with the retail margin, and this is something I've got some spreadsheets that I share in the Pitch Perfect course which calculates it. So you take a retail, say it's a fiver, They're going to be looking for 40%, so you're down to £3. The wholesaler says, well, I'd like 20%, so you take 20% off again, and that's the money. That's basically the money that you get.

Awesome.

Yeah, thanks for that. Okey-dokey. I can't see anybody else with their hands up. Alexa, you've put your hand back down. Okay, cool. Let's continue. Right, Cotswold Fair. In terms of entry-level wholesalers, the likes of CLF, Tree of Life, BorrowBox is slightly different because it's a— they're more of a fulfilment company, are what I call your entry level. Cotswold Fare are the next level up, so they're very much about fine foods and fine food delis, and if that's your bag, I would certainly go on the website, have a look at them and get some ideas about what you think they're looking for. Nice, really, really nice business to deal with, but you're gonna have to think about the investment. So you're gonna have to invest in sampling and sampling at the initial stage as well, because they do these lovely bags of products to sell out, send out to retailers to get them to trial it and then sampling in store, training in store. There's lots of things you can spend money on with Cotswold Fair, but they are nice guys. Okay, then we get into what I call the mainstream. So Morrison's, Booths, Selfridges, and Holland and Barrett. Selfridges, key things to say about them, they are, they look like they're looking for deli products at the moment, health and vegan. They are interested in first to market, so they don't want exclusivity, but they do want, they'd like to be first retailer. on your list. So they're open to seeing you early on, they're open for you not to have Salsa. So if you're at that early stage, they could well be your people. And again, really nice to deal with. They're not particularly into highly evolved presentations, they just want to see the product, see, really get to grips with it. Who should we talk about next? Morrisons, working towards Salsa. So that's great for those of you who are interested in that. I did some work for them about 2 years, it might even be 3 years ago now, in London recruiting people for their Meet the Manufacturer, Meet the Maker project. About half of the applicants were eliminated on price, so if you are a high-cost premium product, you might not be right for Morrisons. So again, go and have a look at Morrison's store, see what they're selling, and then get an idea of whether they're going to be a good fit for you. Holland and Barrett, lots of online, a lot of people are listed with them. They are expensive to deal with in terms of the margins that they look for, and I've got several clients who just walked away. If you've got a highly profitable product, then you can probably offer them the margins that they're looking for, but they will want their piece of flesh on marketing as well. So for some of you, Holland and Barrett is a perfect fit, and for others it might just be a step too far money-wise. Booths, Waitresses of the North, they are sending— They are sending 8 buyers to this. Well, obviously not physically sending, but there will be 8 booths buyers. They are taking this bread and jam very seriously, which is probably why there's a massive long list of things there. Um, I've always thought they're nice to deal with, and then I saw somebody at lunch who said they were very difficult, so I don't know. I haven't personally dealt— well, I haven't personally dealt with them because I've been turned down every time I've applied to them for various classes. So we will see. Okie dokie, let's move on. And then we've got the new boys, the Q-coms, that we will get you your food in 10 minutes, under 30 minutes, whatever. These are small. They are looking for— well, certainly Gorillas are looking for salsa. Dija don't seem to have specified. I think I would go on the website and have a look at it and just see where you— whether you feel you fit in it. Certainly, I mean, I've just applied to Deeja for one client because she's doing snacking, and another one for baked goods for Gorillas. So have a look at the list, have a go. It's an unknown. It could be an amazing opportunity to get in on the ground level and grow with them, or it could be very difficult, but they are completely unknown. So it'll be really interesting to see what happens, but it would do no harm to apply to them.

Gorillas— sorry, I shop with Gorillas quite a bit. This is Alexa. And they have a local London category, right? I've discovered a lot of really cool products that way that aren't even available in the grocery stores or in the local deli sometimes. So it could be a really cool opportunity.

So it's a good one and it may well be a really good one to collaborate with from a marketing point of view as well if it is a local, sort of more local thing. David, you got another question? No, you just put your hand up. No, sorry about that. That's all right. Not sure what happened there.

No bother.

Okay, so getting ready to apply. As I say, we've got this downloadable form. Yugita, do you want to ask a question?

Nope.

Okay, no worries. So I will send this form out to you with the recording. And yes, Alexa, I do agree it would be good if Bread and Jam actually downloaded it. But anyway, so get the form.

They have an option in the form that I'll talk to you about later because it's something that they could do on their end. It's quite easy for them to do. It's just ticking a button.

Oh, okay, cool. Yeah, so decide who you're going to pitch to and then delete the rest so that that just clears your head. And you'll find with the questions I've put in the bit as well so that you can read that summary that Planet Bread and Jam have given. But don't just rely on that. Go and do your own research as well. And then, yeah, it's really simple. Draft your responses, stick them on the form, and then upload it onto the website, and fingers crossed.

Simples.

Okay, it's probably not that simple. So what should we do? So I've picked out some of the questions just to have a little think, and last year, for example, I did some work with Hot Tea Mama, who's just Won some awards, Norwich, I think this week. And we were really like, what category are you in? And I think a lot of people just think this isn't really very important, but it's actually really key. And the first thing that I would do, and what I've been doing with clients, is you pick. So let's use Ocado because Ocado is so simple because it's that. So you go on Ocado, and if we use this example of Hot Tea Mama, so this is a tea that's aimed at women who are pregnant, having given birth, and menopausal. And one of the questions that we had when we were putting it together last year was, what is it? Is it a tea? Is it a vitamin and mineral supplement? Or actually, should it sit with baby? Because the people who are buying it will be in the baby section. And categories just vary by retailer. So if we carry on with, with Hot Tea Mama's example, all of these 4 will have it, would have it in a different place. So John Bell and Croydon, which is a great pharmacy in London, which are obviously not part of the bread and jam piece, but they would probably have it in their own area, or because they've got a lot of specialist products. Holland and Barrett, I think, have therapeutic teas. Boots, still not sure where we— I think we ended up thinking about baby for Boots. Sainsbury's actually have therapeutic teas and vitamin supplements. So the category is really, really key, and it will determine which buyer you, you talk to. So Jamie's— James is asking an English wine spritzer in a can, do I go for the wine category or do I go for ready-to-drink? Drinks are really hard because in the big retailers, so you know Tesco, Sainsbury's, etc., you've either got front of store which sits with the food to go or you've got back of store. The food to go has a higher footfall but it's also really hard to get onto, so if you're at that beginning stage then probably going for the the wine category is a better area to be in. But it's a good question. And what you have to think about, and I think I've taken it out of this presentation, but think about your customer journey. So when is your customer going to be buying your— most likely to be buying your product? So are they going to— because, and also, is it an impulse? So if you go to the food-to-go category, you're thinking, I want something for lunch, grab a sandwich, or something on the way home, grab a glass A spritzer, or are you going to go to the back of store because you're buying wine for the evening? So it depends on the customer journey, I think, to some extent, and also where where your competitors sit as well. And then there is the opportunity, of course, of dual facing. So if you look at something like Coca-Cola, it's in the chiller, and there's probably another chiller somewhere which they'll have paid for, and it'll be in back of store. And this was an example of where Simply Cook. managed to do a deal with Sainsbury's and they were actually in 3— they managed to merchandise in 3 different places. It's probably 2 or 3 years ago now and they're now in Tesco's, but they were in the vegetables aisle, they were in the meat aisle, and they were in where the rest of their brothers and sisters were in the cooking ingredients. I don't think, and please, you know, shout up and object if you— that any of us have got the money to to do that kind of thing. So we've got to pick one, and that's going to be critical on this application because the buyer— there are more than one buyer for a lot of retailers coming. So you need to make sure you've got the right buyer, which means you've got to get the right category. Okay, Yogita, have you put your hand up again or—

No.

Okay, cool. Okay, so that's the category. So it doesn't, you know, when you look at that, it looks really easy to do, but it needs more thought. And also make sure you use their language, because if you go and have a look, and again, I've been doing some research on this, they all use different language, but most of them are online, fortunately. Okay, so the description of the product and the USP. So product and brand, if you go away with nothing else today, think about the differentiation between product and brand. So the product is the stuff you make and the brand is what wraps around it. And I think the biggest mistake I've seen people make when they do pitches, and I've watched an awful lot of them now over the years, is they focus on the product, not the brand. But on this account, this piece is the product and the unique selling point of your product. And I'm suspecting most of you here would be really good at it. I think that's the area you're going to be really great at. So what we put together, this was an application we did last year for Kaesewors, which is boerewors sausage. So we were kind of going, look, it's premium, it's a meat feast. We were talking about the fact that it's beef, pork, and lamb. It's South African. And then we got into the real detail of what it is. So, you know, South African sausage, there's the ingredients, and then a bit of branding.

It's—

if I was going to criticize that looking at it now, I would say we're probably not being as explicit as we should be on the USP. One of the things that was quite interesting debate yesterday, because on this call there was Planet Organic, Milk and Scott from Fortnum Mason. And they were discussing, should you say, or basically should you slag everyone else off? And of course, that's really not very British to do. So it's, you should think about your USP in terms of, we are the only one who, or we have a point of difference. So you're implying that you're better than your competitors, but you're not actually being explicit about it. And then, as I say, brand is a different ballgame. And thinking about why is your brand beneficial for us? So that is a question that several of them are using. So this answer here is generic. So Kay's was number one brand of boarwurst in the UK, driving profitable sales value to premium sausage market. Our mission is, our great tribe of followers is growing and our brand has been featured here. So you've got all the elements of the brand, but what's not there is why is it relevant to the applicant? So why is it relevant to Morrison's or boos? What is it that brings the two together? So the key points that I— and I will share this presentation as well afterwards so you don't have to take— well, you can take screenshots if you want, but the things that I would think about are what does your brand stand for, who are the target customers, and what is the fit with the retailer, if you can identify that. What have you achieved so far? That seems to be working really well in successful presentations I've seen recently. What is the marketing? So what marketing are you doing at the moment? And then the bonus is tailor that to the retailer. So for example, Selfridges are very into their Project Earth, so how can you tie Project Earth into your answers? And even put, you know, something like our tribe of— we already have a load of Morrison's customers, as you know, on our direct-to-consumer sales, for example. And we did, we have done that with a couple of retailers and it's worked really well to just weave that in, that you're already talking to their people and you can bring more people like that. And then I just, I've just put this in to help you think about what makes a brand beneficial. This is Seth Godin, which I'm a really massive fan of. Go and read some of his books about marketing because what he's kind of getting to the essence is reinforcing the fact that your brand is not your logo, your brand is not your product, your brand is the whole set of experiences, stories, things you've heard, things you've read, things you've seen, that the consumer is willing to pay a premium for. And the best example, which I use all the time, is Coca-Cola, because we will pay £1.95 if you even buy it, but you know, the punter will pay £1.95 for a 500ml bottle of cola with the Coke name on it. If it's a 500ml Asda Cola, they're probably not paying more than 50p, and that's what you're bringing to the party. So you're bringing new people, you're bringing margin, you're bringing category growth. There's a whole list of things that you can be bringing to that retailer, but it has to be tailored, and that's to me the critical piece. Be clear on your product USPs, and your brand new SPs and why that's relevant to those particular retailers. So I know I've said it already, but do your research, go and look at the stores, and also update as well because of course we're now post-pandemic. So prior to COVID, Planet Organic, for example, were very focused on snacking, food to go, the student population, the tourist population. Now they're very focused on local, and that's completely changed. When I spoke to Sophie, gosh, probably 6 months ago, she said the things that are selling— and it's probably changed again since— were things like bakery. So their bakery section was going shedloads, whereas a year and a half ago, or 2 years ago, it would have been snacking. So It's doing that piece of research. There's loads of stuff on the internet. There's supplier websites for most of the guys who will give you more clues as well. And I think somewhere, certainly in the course, but somewhere I've got a list of all the supplier webs— sorry, the retailer websites that are designed for suppliers. It's complicated to say. So I know I'm laboring this point, but it's so key to get it across. It's the brand, not your product. So where the word brand is in the title, write about your brand, and where it's the product, write about your products. And then think about what are their values and requirements, what's in the store at the moment. I've done some work with a couple of people recently and they built these gap analysis and I looked at it and I said, do they actually list that product? And they went, oh no, no, no, but it's in the marketplace. I said, well, I think it's better to show what's there rather than what could be there, otherwise you're going to be there all day. Obviously you're not going to build a gap analysis for the application, but it's a good piece of discipline to do it anyway because you'll probably want it for the pitch. And so think about basically you want to be in the top right quadrant, therefore what is it about your brand, what is your USPs that the punter is going to pay for, that the retailer is interested in, that puts you in that top right quadrant. Okay, thanks James. Sorry, I've just seen you're off. Listen to the recording. And then use any facts and statistics, anything you can back it up. Helen, you've got a question?

Yeah, you mentioned that we need to be in the top right-hand portion of the chart. My product, I don't believe is— it's not a low-level product, but I don't believe that that is what makes it different. I don't want it to be in the high-price category. It's a snacking product that if it went in, it's a grab-and-go product, so if I put it in at high price, surely that's not where I need it to be?

No.

Okay, let me, let me re-explain the gap then. So the first thing you need to think about is the axes. So this is probably not the best example that I've cut and pasted because this is, as you say, price versus quality. For you, I mean, if you take FitBakes, which is obviously in your arena, we must have done—

I think we did—

hello?

Yeah, I'm here. We did 3 different gap analysis until we were happy that it made sense. So you can put anything you like on those axes.

Okay, no, I'm with you now. I was wrongly assuming that we had to follow those axes. I've done it on completely different axes for my products, so now I'll find it. Exactly.

You've got— I don't know whether you've got one of your 5 a day, but you've got a load of veg in yours.

Yeah.

So you might have load of veg, no veg, and then plot it against yummy chocolate, no yummy chocolate, for example. I mean, I'm being a bit facetious, but— and Helen makes— well, what do you make, Helen? Because I don't want to ill-define Rutle.

Oh, it's basically, it's a biscuit that contains over 35% vegetable.

There you go. So that's, so look, there's your, there's that, that's what I would do with those. And that's something that we'll go into in a bit more detail at the workshop. And then don't be afraid to use facts and statistics. So, you know, if you have got a decent, I know there's people here who've got, you know, 10,000 followers on Insta. That's a really interesting fact. So get it in there. You know, we've got engaged people, we've got 2,000 on our list.

We've—

because what they're interested in is if we take your brand, because we're gonna have to take something off, are you gonna sell? And the only way they're gonna know that you're gonna sell is that you can establish you've already got traction. And if you haven't got sales, and I know there's a couple of people here who are still at those very baby stages, there's still things that you can put in to say what you're going to do in terms of, or even your targets. We're targeting to get 5,000, you know, Instagram followers, or we've got a load of influencers coming on stream or something. Obviously it doesn't need to be pages and pages and pages long. And actually, let's just address that now. How long does an application need to be? I asked Jason this question a couple of weeks ago on a call and he didn't know the answer. And those of you who've worked with me or done the course will know I'm really into profiling buyers. And if they're a real detailed person, I can guarantee you what you write on this form won't be enough. And if they're not detailed and they're very dum dum dum, very quick, then you're probably going to write too much. So put enough in, and what is enough? I honestly— 2 paragraphs probably, 2 or 3, depends what you've got to say. And then the other critical one, most of these forms have this year, the nebulous, any other comments. This is your opportunity to shine. This is your opportunity to say something interesting. And I've just cut a picture, obviously you can't put pictures on these forms, but this was an example of Rebellious. This was a pitch we did for Sainsbury's, which was successful. They've launched this weekend. Something around how you're gonna— I think in here, what's your vision for the brand in their stores? So what are you gonna do? These guys haven't got super loads of money, but they came up with some ideas about what they were gonna do with digital campaigns, how they were gonna work with influencers, what they were gonna do in the press. What you're gonna do to work with them, I think, is a really good place for this section. I think that's what I would put in this section. There will be exceptions to the rule, but please fill it in. If someone's asking for any other comments, don't ignore it. It's an opportunity for you to tell some— to do some more selling stuff. Okey-dokey. We're talking to similar outlets as yours. Should we say this if it is true? Only if you're doing a seeders raise, which I'm doing at the moment, and then you have to provide evidence if Adam's still in the room. Anyway, I don't think you should ever blatantly lie because it's difficult to keep lies going on, but I do think there's nothing wrong with embellishing the truth or having a vision. So having a vision of where you want to go might be, you know, we intend to be in the bigger retailers in a year to 18 months' time. That's fine. Or if you can talk about rates of sale that you've already achieved, that's fine. You can embellish it. I mean, we had— when I was working with Ice Kitchen, we actually had it written from a wholesaler who said, you know, where you're stocked against Magnum in 2 different fridges, Ice Kitchen outsells it. Well, that is a beautiful thing for us to talk about and we could back it up. But, you know, selling is being creative. But don't— and also be aware these guys talk to each other. They talk to each other more than you think. So if you say, well, I'm a long way down the line with Whole Foods and Sophie from Planet Organics had a quick chat with the guys there and they're like, no, That's, that's just something to be thinking about. Okay, so last section. How are we doing for time? Probably a little bit tight. That's fine. Some of you will be aware I have a short course called The Secret Sauce of Getting a Listing. This is not a plug for that. This is a plug for, again, something Planet Organic said yesterday, which You know, came after I'd written this presentation actually, but it's really important. They are far more like people are far more likely to buy or have an action to buy if they've already seen you. And generally, it takes a person seven times to see a brand before they take any action. And taking action means taking action; it doesn't actually mean buying it. So. What I would suggest in the next 2, 3 weeks, however many weeks we've got, 2 weeks, is get out there and start promoting your product. And I'm not, you know, we don't have time to do this. You're welcome to get hold of the course. It's there, €47. I'll stick a link in the email that I send out afterwards. But what I go through is the 7 things that that you need to think about for raising the profile of your brand so that these guys have seen it by the time they get to read your application, assuming they will read them on the 15th. So for example, LinkedIn, I know I bang on about LinkedIn a lot, but you know, is your LinkedIn profile up to date? Is your brand up to date? Have you just done lunch or speciality? Are you about to go to the North, Fine Food North? Promote that, you know, that will raise profile. See if you can get the— if you are going to Fine Food North, get those boys to send out an article about you, get some coverage from that. A lot of awards coming out at the moment, so Quality Food Awards shortlists came out yesterday. There were a few small brands, but I don't think any who's on here. Nourish, a lot of you I think got Nourish awards, and Great Taste of course has just come out as well. Beautiful press opportunities, come on people, let's get out there now. Include them obviously in your application, but also start putting them out there so people can see. Social media, obviously, in terms of your Facebook and your Insta. Think about the hashtags as well. Again, Sophie was talking about how to, and I've heard her say this before, Vegan London. If you are vegan and you're based in London, use that hashtag. She looks for it, and that's a useful top tip. And then referrals, that's the 7th one on that list. It's difficult to do, but again, not banging on too much about LinkedIn. If you, for example, um, are linked into a lot of people, the likelihood is I've got like 5,000 LinkedIn connections. I'm not connected to all the buyers. I keep trying to link into Sophie actually, and she never says yes, so I'm not linked in with her. Um, but there's quite a few. So if there's someone who maybe I know and it's worth going, oh, can you intro me to somebody? Or, you know, if you're part of Bread and Jam, you're probably well networked already. Who do you know who might know one of these buyers? Is it possible for them just to put a word in somehow?

I don't know.

That's why we go to the networking events, to meet more people physically or in person. So I just wanted to say, don't just think about the application cold. Think about your pre-marketing and your post-marketing as well, because if on the 15th you get a slot, do you know what? I would ramp up my marketing. I would be really thinking, how can I raise profile of my brand and me so that when the buyer sees me on the 25th, 26th, they know who I am, what I do, and they're already sold, you know. It's like the film with Tom Cruise, You Had Me at Hello. That's what you want to be, that's the dream. Okay, so quick, quick 2-minute pitch for the course. So as I did allude to, we are running Pitch Perfect. This will be the 4th cohort. What is it? It's— let's move the chat out of the way— it's designed to help you do your own selling or make sure that you know when, if you're going to take a salesperson on, what they should be doing. So it should definitely save you money. You know, if you're looking at retaining someone, it's going to be 2-3 grand a month, which is a lot less than employing someone for 50-60 to do your sales for you, and this is at the— this is more second stage. It'll help you to do a better— to make a better deal. It will help you to— sorry, get a deal and make a better deal. So there's a whole tranche on negotiation in there. All the buyers you are working with have been trained. And thank you, Alexa. See you again. Thank you, Beth.

Hello.

And buy, so you need to be too, and that's why I put this course on and we run it. In fact, the last one we ran was after Bread and Jam last year, and it's to help you grow your business exponentially because it will enable you to go out and sell more effectively. So very quick, what's in it? We get into much more detail, obviously we've talked about Bread and Jam, which is great, but If you don't get a pitch, and this is what obviously we're going to talk about, if you get the letter going, sorry, you haven't had— you're not going to do a pitch, what do you do next? And this will help you to work out what to do next. So how to find the actual physical buyer, how to find the right retailer, how to get the meeting. We go through how to write emails, how to contact them, how to do that 7 touches of them before you even start, how to prepare for the meeting, how to put the pitch together, how to become a negotiating pro, and how to actually do the launch and to keep the listing. Because I think we're all guilty of going, I need to get more business, need to get more business. Oh, I've got a listing now, I'm going to move on to something else. And we talk about that. So that's the 6 modules. So there are, um, oops, 6 training videos, loads and loads of downloadable templates. So, you know, I've been doing this 5 years, everything that I've acquired, all the margin templates, email writing, negotiation planners, meeting planners, perfect pitch, they're all in the course. We're going to do a group coaching call once a week where you can come on and have a hot seat, discuss any issues you've got. And then we've also got the Facebook group with the other Pitch Perfect alumni, which goes back 2 or 3 years. So there's a lot to be had. Carolina was— I don't know whether Carolina's on actually, she did sign up. She started the beginning of last year, she was on the course in November, got the pitch sorted, spoke to Selfridges, Um, and got the listing in March this year, which is a pretty good turnaround actually. When I was saying, you know, 3 years, she was there in 4 months. Um, so what's the investment? It's £497, um, and the link is there, but obviously I will send you a link later. And we have a code from Bread and Jam which saves you £100. So it will be 397, and just for today we're going to throw in the secret sauce of getting a retailer listing as well. So you get all that together. Okay, so you can apply now. There's there's the link again: foodmentor.co.uk/pitch perfect. So questions? Who has? Any questions for me? I know that was very whistle-stop. Okay, I'm going to stop sharing so I can see you all. Right, who's got their hand up? Helen, have you got your hand up again, or is it just—

I don't think it's— sorry, I don't think it's— I haven't taken it down.

Sorry.

Monique, Monique, Monique. Okay, Monique, you've got your hand up. Oh, would you like to speak? That might help. Monique?

Yes, can you hear me?

Yes, yes, sorry.

Okay, cool.

Let me unmute the others as well.

Yeah, um, I have a question that's, uh, going back to the beginning a little bit, and sorry if this is a bit basic for everyone else, but, um, we Bought GTIN barcodes and we've had a retailer say, um, this isn't compatible, you need a barcode. If you're in France, for example, the barcode should start with this particular number, um, which doesn't. Do you know the difference between GTIN? And because you mentioned, um, G something 1.

Speak to the boys at GS1. Okay. They are global experts, so yes, they're working in the UK, but if you ring up there and go on their website and they'll have a hotline number, they're super, super helpful. They are, I think they're a charity or they're a nonprofit organization, so they're there to help you.

They're not there to charge you money.

Okay, amazing. So get hold of them because honestly barcodes is not my area of expertise.

Cool, okay, thanks very much.

Okay, cool. Who else have we got putting their hand up? Yvonne, you got a question or is your hand just up? I was just wondering if I could just stay on after just to speak with you because I'm on the mentoring program. Is that okay?

Just to—

Yep, no worries. Who else have we got? Yudhikta?

Hi, Karen. Quick question, and I do intend to do a 5-minute round with you separately, but I see that a lot of these brands who are pitching, most of them seem to be, in fact all of them seem to be on trend, the latest and greatest in terms of world-leading. My products are kind of, there's a huge demand for it, but we're quite traditional. We're not You know, CBD products, for instance, were not the most trendy products. Do you think buyers coming to Bread and Jam will pass us to people who are traditional products with broader appeal?

I think you have to look at— can everyone mute? Talking, I don't know who it is. She has no name tag. Right, I'm going to try and mute people who are making noise. Okay, that's better. So I guess it's looking at your product and seeing where the fit is. So you might not be trendy, you know, Boavos are not trendy. Boavos are made from 92% Yeah, that's a good one.

Thank you, Karen.

So think about what's your unique proposition, and I'm sure there is one.

Yeah.

Phil, do you have a question?

Yeah, just a very quick one. Is there— so on the Blues buying panel, there seems to be selling a lot of them. Is there anywhere on the Bread and Jam pitch deck of which departments they're coming from, if there's relevance, or is it a hush secret?

No, there's nothing as useful as that. It's not— I mean, this is one of the great things about Product Guru. If I now mention other competitors are available, Product Guru, kind of 48 hours before, you get to know who the buyers are, so you can profile them, and it's much better. With this, you have no idea who you're pitching to, and You know, back in 2018 when we did it with Dee, I don't think either of the buyers were the right buyers.

Okay, because that's obviously— that's a lot to consider there because it's a very tight time frame between, you know, should any of us be successful and then going straight into it. I mean, you know, talking about profiling, I'd say 50% of the value we had in our last pitch was the fact that we probably knew the inside leg measurement of our buyer, you know, that it was so valuable for rapport building as well as showing what we had to offer them. But it's tricky if we don't know who they are.

Yeah, no, it is a difficulty, and I think it's more because the buyers are just, you know, they might send different buyers on different days. I think you just have to trust the process, and if they see something that's amazing, Then they're going to pass it on and that's their job.

Okay, great, thank you.

Steve has put a question in the chat saying Jason's not on this, but can the application form have a product photo? Now last year you could have 3 photos and this year no photos, so no, you can't have photos this year, which is a shame because last year I was telling teaching people what to put on their photos, but we don't have any this year. You know, the wow factor is going to have to be when you're actually there. But I mean, your wow factor is you're shortlisted for Quality Food Awards. And yeah, you've got some pretty amazing products and you've got a lot of traction. I think you've got enough to say. The only problem is, is probably— yeah, I get it. It's a shame. The only problem is understanding what your products are, I suspect. So that will take some descriptive writing. Okay, has anyone else got any questions? I'm assuming Yogita and Yvonne don't have any more questions, but your hands are still up.

I'm sorry.

It's all right, don't worry. And then Jess, one last question from you. What do you think would be the best category for frozen kids' meals? Baby and toddler or frozen ready meals? It depends on the retailer. So if you go and have a look at Ocado, it's probably frozen baby and toddler. If it's Morrison's, it's going to be frozen ready meals, I think, because what you have to think about is the space. So what space do you need? So most of baby and toddler, unless you're planning to put a freezer into the ambient aisle, which is probably not going to work, although it has worked in Goodwood Child. The likelihood it's going to be frozen and therefore it's going to sit with frozen ready meals. So frozen ready meals for children, that would be my approach, I think. Does that help? Okay, who else have we got? We got anybody else got any questions? Valerie, Valerie, Valerie. Have I got? Can you speak, Valerie? Your hand is up. Where are you? There we go. Yep, you are. Valerie, do you have a question?

No.

No.

Okay, okay. Does anybody else have any other questions, or is that about it? Okay, perfect. So what I will do is I will send you the link to the course, the link to the little mini course, the link to the form, and obviously a recording of this. And then if you've got any questions, just ping me an email. And I hope that was really useful. And yes, Yvonne, feel free to stay on the call. And yes, thank you, Helen. Good luck to everybody. There are lots of buyers coming, so you've got a pretty good chance. All right, thank you very much. Bye-bye, everybody.